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View Full Version : Boat Seat Shock Absorber Options??



TREVELLY
09-08-2012, 06:00 AM
I am presently getting boat repaired (transom replacement) and whilst that is underway I am making up a frame to go inside the boat seat boxes that will have a spring/shock absorber.

The system will be similar to the "shockwave" seat suspension but not $6K shockwaveseats(dot)com

I have a frame that slides up and down, and works within the boat seat box, but the critical part is the shock absorber.

I did buy some years ago swell-ride from Raeline - they did not work as the shock absorbers were just the little things used inside office chairs and just die in no time at all and the framework was plain flimsy - so I want something more robust.

The Shockwave suspension set up used air shocks from FoxShox called Float R - the one's they use are especially made for them with 150mm of travel - where the best i can get for a ski-mobile from Foxshox is 5" (125mm) travel and at $1000 a pair.

I was wondering about any other options for the spring-shock absorber. Preferably air type that can be adjusted with air ressure to account for the differing weight of fisho.

Any ideas guys?

If I can not get a better alternative i might have to get the foxshox, but I am struggling with the price tag.

I will post pics of project as it develops and is made. I have the aluminium and will commence frame assembly soon.

Chang Jiang
09-08-2012, 07:32 AM
Mate i use a lot of different shock mitigation seats in our boats, The best priced I would say are scots seats www.scotboatseat.co.uk (http://www.scotboatseat.co.uk) they have only being doing shock mitigation seats for about 3 years but marine for a decade, you may be able to get a shocky from them. I also trialled a few from springfield in shanghai, the system was great and built by an aussie but the seat did not last, I will see if i can find out who the aussie was.

cheers terry

thylacene
09-08-2012, 07:49 AM
If you want something that is very adjustable, give Bertrand a ring from Fourneales Australia, he is in Bicheno in tassie. I have a set of Fournales on my bike, and they have lasted very well compared to the Konis I tried before. Bertrand can configure tou your specs as they are high pressure air over oil.

If y want to go cheap, wander into your local motorcycle wreckers, they will have a larger selection. Do your research on spring rate and damping.

PB
09-08-2012, 09:14 AM
not sure but one of theses could be an option. http://www.wavemaster.net.au/wm_products.html

Greg P
09-08-2012, 10:00 AM
That's a nice link. What were they selling again? :-*8-)

Muddy Toes
09-08-2012, 10:49 AM
Each to there own Trev but have you considered buying a glass boat to just eliminate the bad ride :P

Your not getting any younger mate......you deserve a bit of luxury these days.

TREVELLY
10-08-2012, 06:16 AM
Terry that site has some nice kit for sure - external springs to shocks - yep i think i will go that way not top shelf as the foxshox are but a fraction of the cost.

Thylacene I did a search on that guy in Tassie and what a lad - a French guy about twice the price of Europe and UK distributors - gee the Harley forum guys don't hold back on their feelings for him Fs and Cs flying everywhere :) The shockies are great though and would still be up around about 80% cost of foxshox.

PB Wavemaster look alright but not enough travel for my liking and yes have seen that site before and difficult to focus on item rather than model - good to see you enjoyed Greg P

Muddy if i was on mine sites still I would not flinch at a 300hp donk on a 500 litre fuel tank pushing a few hundred tons of US plastic through the waves - but i am home with family on less than half that wage and keeping the peace so i will pass on the Silverado and titanic and leave that to you mining magnates (Muddy and Clive) :) sounds a bit like Bonny and Clyde ;D

I went for the modest option airshocks for motorcycle on fleabay $150 delivered - they look to have about 4" travel both air and spring adjustable stiffness.

Best I will get from foxshox is 5" travel and from shockwave is 6" travel but the costs difference is $150 versus $1000 versus $6000

Spending all my money on little chappie these days with his insatiable appetite for Star Wars Lego - make for some interesting father and son quality time - he is so fast at assembling where I plod along. I am essentially the storeman for the assembling just organise the bits and he follows the instructions and as a 7yo just flies through kits for 9-14yo like they are so easy.

Will post pics when I make it up set up.

Thanks for the feedback guys appreciated.

Chang Jiang
10-08-2012, 07:49 AM
Mate look forward to the updates,

cheers Terry

cormorant
10-08-2012, 01:04 PM
Trev I was thinking a front fork rather than a rear suspension shock. Easy to mount and you have the depth in a seat box to use em and they are already progressive springs and oil grades to fine tune or you could go very fancy with antidive electrics for dropping off the back of a monster.

stevemid
10-08-2012, 05:31 PM
Each to there own Trev but have you considered buying a glass boat to just eliminate the bad ride :P

Your not getting any younger mate......you deserve a bit of luxury these days.

Why not go all the way and go for a glass catamaran!

Have you looked at ways to increase the effective travel of a 5-6" shock absorber? Dune buggies use normal shocks but get extreme wheel movement. What suspension geometry trick is used there?

TREVELLY
10-08-2012, 09:07 PM
Cormorant I have already bought some spring/shocks so I will have a look at them when they arrive and see how stiff or soft they are in what setting both air and spring.

83289

Steve, I hear what you are saying and with the scotboatseats Terry mentioned they have more travel in the seat than the spring/shock and I am not righting off that option. I will make a call on the spring/shock stiffness and can still adjust the travel configuration to increase the seat travel if the spring/shock absorber will work fine the way. I do not want to give it more travel if the leverage just causes it to bottom out all the time either. That is why I am getting the shock absorber now and will then build the frame to suit.

83290

cormorant
18-08-2012, 11:26 PM
Saw these whan chasing some spares for a bostrom

http://www.seatsrus.com.au/product/shock-absorbers

TREVELLY
01-01-2013, 06:44 PM
Well I have finally started the boat seat suspension - hopefully it will work okay.

The plans show that given 4 or 5 inches travel in the shock absorber I can still get twice that much travel in the seat but at the cost of the suspension stiffness. The shock absorbers have stiffness adjustment so will be interesting to see how it works out.

I did one plan as a concept sketch then did another plan to scale to quantify the materials needed.
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So now I have this pile of stuff to cut up and stick inside that seat box after removing the useless Raeline SwellRide and dumping it as it was both flimsy and when it did work I got about 1" travel.
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I am using nylon for the wear/slide surfaces and the cheapest is cutting boards - I got a new set and swapped with worn kitchen set. I was going to put a nut and bolt to the middle of the pieces and rivets at end - but the rivets worked so well I did not bother with the stainless nut and bolt and don't have to worry about nuts coming lose etc and cheaper and quicker with rivets.
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The bit that slides up and down is made up from 40mm box section and 2mm plate
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I have decided to have nylon sliding against nylon as this is both more slippery and quieter in action. The nylon will be greased with silicon grease when complete.
This is where I am at more work tomorrow.
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cormorant
01-01-2013, 11:19 PM
The pivot points are going to need to have some welded on re-enforcement to hold pins and bushes spreading load and not sure the alloy will be durable when I look at the meat on my CAB style one that is done in steel? Will be looking forward to seeing how this project goes as a few options out there are useless and others are un-affordable. .

Yacht traveller track with torlon balls is a possible single rail option for MKIII as it is very low friction and designed for bery high loads in a marine environment. We use the dry silicon sprays rather than the greases as you can still flush with water and they con't pick up grit.

Some sort of edpm at the bottom would be good if there was a failure so you don't kill your back.

TREVELLY
02-01-2013, 10:16 AM
Yes you are 100% correct C about pivot points.

If you look at my pic 1 there is some seriously thick aluminium at the pivot points but one point through the box section is a weaker point but I have thought to insert a sandwich lamination of nylon blocks and aluminium at this pivot point to strengthen it - will do today and post pics later.

Thanks for the ideas - yacht traveller track - is that a standard Bias or Whitworths product?
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cormorant
02-01-2013, 11:00 AM
Yeah thought you'd be on top of it. I'd be off to the bike wreckers to cut up a couple of alloy swingarms or just steal a quad bike corner unit as too lazy to engineer from scratch ha ha If in Canada I'd be going with snowmobile suspension wrecker.

Not many products can take huge forces , not wear and huge shock loads and that is why I though of traveller style fittings. Like everything that are not expensive , they are silly expensive but well engineered for the purpose.

Lots of different brands but Ronstan will be stocked by local chandlery so have a look next time you are in there and web sites will have loads of details on them. I've seen them used with 600kg of movable glass roof panles and a a huge solid pool cover on bespoke houses simply as they are designed to be used in a harsh environment, engineered and off the shelf

Are we all doing this the wrong way round and thinking inside the square


http://www.nauti-craft.com/

I hadn't seen these before and they don't seem overpriced and don't take up a seatbox interior but how much travel and how smooth As usual with everything USA postage is a killer.

http://www.smoothmovesseats.com/media.html

Same concept they copied

http://glyde-ryde.com/install.htm

Chimo
02-01-2013, 11:06 AM
Hi Trev

Clever fellow that Corm!

For Mk 4 how about using your box and fitting four tracks and travelers http://www.bartonmarine.com/products-ball-bearing-mainsheet-and-genoa-car-tracks.asp to centralize a plate on which your seat is attached with an suitable spring enclosing an appropriate shock absorber or in Mk V enclose a poly air bag in the spring and fit one shocker on either side of the spring. The seat base is held in place by the traveler tracks and the poly air and shockers deal with the loads. QED

Happy New Year

Chimo

TREVELLY
02-01-2013, 01:27 PM
Hi Cormorant/Chimo I think the sail tracks are a great idea and can easily be installed - the only issue is finding one good enough and affordable. The Ronstan option would be 4 trolleys at $126 ea and track $130 equals $650. Now that is just for the sliders for one seat! I don't know the cost of the bartonmarine alternative (cannot see it) but Ronstan looks like a Rollsroyce option.

I have so far paid about $420 in aluminium and $150 in shock absorbers.

One of those smooth moves seat setups sold on US ebay for $350, so may have worked out a reasonable alternative to where I am at now - but already having paid the money above I will continue on this path and yes the freight on the seat suspension I think was a few hundred dollars so the smooth moves would be about $1k for two with freight.

The style of the seats all seem similar to the shockwave seats and shockwave are some half a dozen thousands of dollars landed here.

I will continue with my first option now on this first seat and look into the sliders for second seat if affordable or dismally disappointed with current set up and can always look at retrofitting something.

cormorant
02-01-2013, 03:17 PM
I was only distracting you . Get on with it would you!!

I see you didn't take the bait and decide to do the Nauticraft option.

I think the track car options may have a irritating amount of latteral movement ( and wallet movement) as they change from loaded to unloaded and be overengineered to hell. . Wondering if the cheap option is to use the "T" track but mill close fitting teflon blocks that slide over it. They are all expensive as god believes all sailers are full of cash and chandlers deserve a massive profit.

Have a look at page 48 for another high load industrial option. Same theory but takes load from all directions with tight tolerance. No I don't know the price
http://www.lm76.com/General%20PDF%20For%20Web_opt(Autosaved)PDF2.pdf

Defender linear rail in stainless looks the goods off the shelf ar this twin rail one

http://www.lm76.com/wsp_3_eng.htm Hmmm 3000pounds rated ? now what are the torsional and shock loads of my bum at 40 knots into teh inevitable big hole?



Like with everything those smooth moves etc look OK but until my bum has sat on one who knows. You are aiming for a far higher range of travel and progressive dampening.

TREVELLY
02-01-2013, 10:19 PM
Cormorant the jet rail roller blocks make the yachting travellers look like toys and as the yacht gear was around $$$bling bling I dread to think the price of these industrial thingies. So looking at my $20 nylon cutting boat sliders work today is:-
Install the double angle rocker arms to sliding board.
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Then install the spacer and tie to the boat floor - you will notice I am not using thin walled aluminium and even the 40mm rectangular section in the slider block is solid aluminium where the angles are bolted through.
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The shock absorber and tie are now in place
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I have double angles to secure to the boat floor to connect the tie and shock absorber to. The shock absorber can be relocated along the top and bottom angle to adjust movement range - presently it is half way along and I will adjust the stiffness of the shock absorber by just turning the ring on the shockie and see if this is satisfactory - failing that I will move the shockie along the arm top and bottom and redrill a new location but as it sits 5" of shockie travel will give 10" of seat travel.
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The top of the frame attachment to boat seat sits excessively out of the seat box and will be trimmed lower once installed in the boat and I know how much it will move vertically - presently it can accommodate 250mm of movement but I don't think the inner workings will allow that much.
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The whole set up slides sufficiently well for my satisfaction with silicon grease on the nylon sheets.
I am not bothered by this getting crap on it in service as it is within the seat box and within the boat cabin so it is in a world of it's own.
Similarly I will put a topping sheet on the box once this is installed to my satisfaction.
Also yes I did intentionally put the seat to the front of the box as this is where I want them as they are Raeline seats on a sliding base that previously were not forward enough for my liking - perhaps they are a little too much now but I can move the seat boxes back a few inches easily in the boat as I had already moved them forward previously.
I will fit into boat next day or two and adjust to suit.

cormorant
03-01-2013, 12:13 AM
Looking great and solid. That is a serious days work. Can't wait to see a video and see how well they last.


Here is a bargain for a test
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1500mm-SBR20-Supported-Linear-Rail-4x-Linear-Slide-Trucks-/321047862278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4abff19c06

The industrial slides in steel , block not bearing ones are looking the goods if the china copies are half good.
$130 delivered 2x 20mm rails and slide 4 blocks Obviously a boat chandler hasn't got his margin in!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-SBR20-900mm-20-MM-LINEAR-RAIL-SHAFT-ROD-FULLY-SUPPORTED-with-4-SBR20UU-/261148432738?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccda8d962

TREVELLY
03-01-2013, 07:53 AM
Looking great and solid. That is a serious days work. Can't wait to see a video and see how well they last.


Here is a bargain for a test
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1500mm-SBR20-Supported-Linear-Rail-4x-Linear-Slide-Trucks-/321047862278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4abff19c06

The industrial slides in steel , block not bearing ones are looking the goods if the china copies are half good.
$130 delivered 2x 20mm rails and slide 4 blocks Obviously a boat chandler hasn't got his margin in!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-SBR20-900mm-20-MM-LINEAR-RAIL-SHAFT-ROD-FULLY-SUPPORTED-with-4-SBR20UU-/261148432738?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccda8d962

I would try for the first one except it is collect only and SW Sydney - middle of nowhere.

I can make a single central rail work on each seat with one truck on each and even retro fit to first one built. I simply remove two nylon blocks each side and leave one face in place to prevent rotation and use the guide and roller truck for ease of vertical sliding.

I most likely will do something better for the slide - even though what I have done works - a single guide will take out any rattle or tolerance issues with the guides as they are.

Similarly if I find any issues with the holes in aluminium being a little soft and wearing with use I can easily fit a stainless plate both sides fixed in place and just install a longer bolt to accommodate - this can be done to any or all of the hinge points.

Chang Jiang
03-01-2013, 08:35 AM
Trev, looking good, I have trialled the smooth move and it jurks on side ways movements ( increases side ways pitch), the Glyde ride is a much stronger system and eleviates the side ways pitch I am enjoying your updates, and best of luck.

cheers terry

stevemid
04-01-2013, 06:36 AM
Guys the Smooth Moves crowd are from Blooming Prarie MN. Great fresh water fishing there but as far from salt water as you can get in the US

Yours is looking good Trev.

Steve

TREVELLY
04-01-2013, 09:41 PM
Did an install today and yes it needs some adjustment.

Firstly you can see the mechanism in place so you can see how it works without the seat box concealing the workings
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This is now what it looks like in the boat but do know I am not concerned by the seat sticking out a bit as this vertical attachment will be shortened by only about 1 inch and the tube reducing before it enters the box is no concern as I have something to sort that. The seat sits about 3" lower once I sit on it too.
More important is the performance of the shock absorber and spring. I did tighten up the adjustable ring and yes the suspension works and moves enough but I am sure it would be perfect if I were about 70 to 80kg but I am 90kg and mate is more like 110kg so I am going to move the shock absorber towards the slider so it has less vertical travel but a lot more more spring resistance. I will also flip the shock absorber over top to bottom so it is right way up. I do have the option to even double the shock absorbers if I choose and have two in the seat box but I will be interested to see how good it will be with new location - I reckon it will be okay.
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TREVELLY
09-01-2013, 04:23 PM
Well I considered my mate at 110kg and the FIL at more like 130kg and opted for the 2 shock absorber model.

It's pretty close to completed now - I will add a stiffener to the slide plate at top back face.

I will sea trial it this Sunday

Just from me bouncing up and down on it and falling from ceiling height onto it I have to say it seems impressive - nice take up of load and absolutely no hint of bottoming out.

Boat Hog
09-01-2013, 04:29 PM
Looks amazing. Are you considering putting padding on the roof for the test run - you know, just in case?!

Jarrah Jack
09-01-2013, 04:39 PM
Yeah... He could have one pre compressed then hit the 007 button open the roof and goodbye deckie.

TREVELLY
09-01-2013, 05:10 PM
Stirred not shaken :beatnik:

They are a shock absorber and a spring for the front of a quad bike - not just a spring :builder2::builder::scholar:

cobiaman
09-01-2013, 06:05 PM
Well I considered my mate at 110kg and the FIL at more like 130kg and opted for the 2 shock absorber model.

It's pretty close to completed now - I will add a stiffener to the slide plate at top back face.

I will sea trial it this Sunday

Just from me bouncing up and down on it and falling from ceiling height onto it I have to say it seems impressive - nice take up of load and absolutely no hint of bottoming out.

Where are ya headin sunday trev?

TREVELLY
09-01-2013, 06:30 PM
Sunday looks windier than Saturday but the plan is launch at Scarby 4am and head out towards Hutchies then look about from there to Moreton then wider if conditions allow. See if the current is fishable in the deeper stuff or impossible. So a mixture of trolling and semi-deep drop.

Conditions look pretty average atm but will change a few times between now and then so hopefully not get worse.

Can't say I am hearing marlin everywhere reports but might jag a stray hoo - gotta try