Replaced Wheel Bearings, Need Advice ?

[Justin Rossiter]

Hello Fellow Fisho's

Long time reader, first time poster, so go easy !!

Decided that I wanted to replace my trailer bearings myself (1st time attempted), which I did ;D Took a whole day all up and most of that time was spent trying to get old race's out and new one's in. Anyway, I put the wheels back on, did the nut up, slipped the pin in and gave them a spin. I noticed that there was no play in either wheel (Phew) However, one wheel would spin more freely than the other, figured I might have the nut too tight, so pin out and loosened the nut off and then re-tightened, but a 1/4 turn less, still the same, no play at all, but not spinning as freely as the other wheel. Is this something that is going to cause my trailer to wheel to fly off, explode and try and kill me :-? or is it normal after replacing ?

Thanks

Justin

[Argle]

Is it a braked axle? If so maybe a bit of brake drag on one wheel?

[NAGG]

It could also be the inner seal touching the axle
Give the trailer a tow for 30mins or so ....... then check for heat - then jack it up a see if there is any play & how it spins .
It's always a good idea to recheck newly installed bearings .

Chris

[Justin Rossiter]

Thanks Chaps

Non braked axle, the seals are Timken marine seals so are a snug fit.

Justin

[Mike Delisser]

Nagg could be right. It does spin a bit doesn't it. There only needs to be a slight diff in how tight they are to make a diff to how freely they spin and it's sometimes hard to get it perfect and still line up the hole for the split-pin. Not a biggy if it is still spinning.

But
Did you also replace the cups?
If you did.......were you careful not to damage the new ones tapping them in?
If you didn't.....did you check if the surface was pitted?

[wags on the water]

Where are you based ? Might be worth getting someone to look over it for you. It's easier to 'diagnose' when something is in front of you, than a few sentences on the web.

[Noelm]

maybe it is just too tight, there should be a tiny bit of "play", but as mentioned, take it for a drive around the block, then check the adjustment.

[Justin Rossiter]

Yep replaced the cups, that is what took the longest, getting the old ones out and putting the new ones in very very very carefully. Which I must say is bloody hard !! the overwhelming desire to belt the crap out them was certainly there at times !!
Based in Hobart, so will drive around in the snow and ice for 30 min then check to see if hub temp is above freezing yet.

Justin

[Argle]

Yep better to be a bit loose than too tight - tight bearings will overheat and fail but loose will go for ages. Note when i say loose I mean a small amount of play not wobbling all over the shop.

Cheers

[fishfeeder]

This might be obvious but did you pack the bearing with grease ??
I was always told to spin the wheel while tightening up the nut until the wheel became harder to turn and then back off the nut a little..

Putt the wheels on and go for a drive around the block a few times and then jack up each wheel and spin the tyre, if it feels loose tighten a little.
You should check for heat during each trip and your bearing shouldn't get above warm.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Brett

[Justin Rossiter]

Thanks Heaps Chaps :)

I will take it for a spin around the block a few times, jack it up and check again. If all else fails will head to my mechanic for a quick check.

Yes plenty of grease in the bearings, what a wonderfully messy job that is :o Also plenty of grease in the hub and bearing buddy about 1/2 full of grease as well.

Justin

[bigjimg]

Does the Timkin seal rubber fit over the flange on the stainless inner hub tap in cup? If so may just be a little tighter.Jim

[wags on the water]

Hobart - a little too far to travel for a look to help you out....

Cheers,
Wags

[WalFish]

A little tip for getting the bearing cup out without having to flog th ebejesus out of it is to chuck the whole hub in the barbecue. If you have a barbecue with a hood, turn it up to full bore, chuck the hub in and close the lid. Come back 20 min later, take the hub out and a few gentle persuasive taps with a hammer and pin punch will have her out in no time. Then find a nice piece of soft timber to use as a buffer between the hammer and the new cup, tap the new one in. Works a treat and then you can cook a little lunch while you pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

[Scubafish]

Just A Tip and what i have done to my trailer,drill & tap out the hub and put a grease nipple in so the grease goes in from the center of the hub And you fill the hole cavity with grease and put a very small hole in the outer cap of the bearing.You can then loose those bearing buddy's that keep getting stolen in the car park.i find it is a better way to make sure you get grease in properly on both inner & outer bearings.P.S not enough weight in the nipple to upset the balance of the hub.

[tunaticer]

A common misconception about bearings is the amount of grease to be used in them.
I build lots of belt conveyors that run nearly 24/7 with both shock loads and constant heavy loads on them.
The most common bearings we have to replace due to failure are the ones that get a few pumps of grease in every day, the least replaced bearings are ones that get a few pumps of grease once a week. Packed tight grease can actually act like an oven and conceal that bit of excess heat you need to dissipate quickly.

Just an observation I have made over the past 30 years of the belt conveyor industry.

[Justin Rossiter]

Nice one Wal
Can't say I have ever put a hub on the BBQ !!! But it makes sense, I used a nice soft piece of wood to do the job
As for the Bearing Buddies, I fail to see how they will get grease to the back bearing


Justin

[Fed]

Easy Justin, when your hubs are full you put some grease in the front & it comes out the back.

Tunaticer I don't think your theory holds up for boat trailer wheel bearings maybe due to the relatively slow RPMs.
Two hours of freeway speeds running full hubs gives me luke warm hubs, a wild guess would be around 40 degrees C.

[fishfeeder]

I think it has more to do with salt water getting into the bearings that does the real damage..
That's probably why belt conveyors last longer with minimal maintenance...

[gazza2006au]

the easiest way is to remove the wheel from the axle remove the rear seal remove the rear bearing get a large enough socket that will fit through the rear bearing race use a extension bar and tap the front bearing race out than flip the wheel over and use a larger socket to tap the rear bearing race out when replacing the bearing races i use the old bearing to tap the bearing races into place than check to make sure u didnt damage the bearing race with the old bearing only do this if the old bearing is still in good nick no pitting as the pitting might damage the new bearing race when regreasing the bearing u have to squeeze the grease into the ends of the pin bearings not on the rolling surface i fill my hubs to around 80% full of grease ive never had a bearing failure in over 15 years of boating and im 45mins from the east coast so 1.5 hours travel each fishing trip minimum

[cormorant]

A lot of the "stolen" bearing buddies are the cheap ones that are i cheap fit where the interferrence fit isn't tight enough to hold em on over speed humps and on the freeway.

Bearings don't need much grease and run cooler but with poor seals on low quality axels the grease is simply used to displace the area water could get into. Look at modern wheel bearings where they are sealed units and last for a couple of hundred thousand km and you son see that poor tolerances , lack of use and water be it condensation or in through the seals kills boat bearings. My box and car trailer have never had issues and quick checks on boat trailer always catch any issues early. Using teh right grease makes a huge difference to how much water affects it. My hubs are 100% full of grease of which bugger all is in the bearing and they run warm and get deep launched every time. Rather have them run warmer than have water get near them is my theory and if they get really hot some grease will melt to preserve teh bearing a bit longer.

I still want to see a test where someone can show that a bearing buddy does actually put a couple of psi of pressure in a hub when you consider teh tackiness and thickness or todays marine hub grease.

Biggest failure point on all the ones I have seen fail is bad installation followed by seals torn up by crap axel so I use lip seals and stainless speedy sleeves to keep a good running surface. Only reason I have bearing buddies is they they area quick indicator if I have a stuffed seal.

I like durahubs oil and grease idea but haven't got em on my existing trailers.

[Justin Rossiter]

Thanks CormorantThe hubs are about 3/4 of Nulon Xtreme grease and the bearings stuffed full, could it be the consistency of the grease that is causing it not spin as freely ? By freely it will turn about 2 revolutions before slowing down.
Justin

[Cheech]

I think it could just be the seal rubbing. Though I am a little concerned as to how tight the nut actually is if you had it set and then turned it back a quarter of a turn. You should have only needed to turn it back one split pin slot to get it to have wabble. Did you use a spanner to tighten the nut? If yes then that may be the problem as well, as you would have initially over tighted it.

I do mine by tightening the nut only by hand. As tight as you can get it by hand, and then back off to the next split pin slot. You should find that you then have just a hint of wabble. If too wabbly then try to get to the next slot. Give it a run to seat itself, then check again. You may need to go a slot tighter after seated.

At least that is how I do mine.

[tassjo]

if you want to check your wheel bearing adjustsment grab yourself a 8" shifter or a standard size multy grips jack up the trailer so you can spin the tyre,loosen the nut slightly grab the tyre top & bottom give it a wobble you will feel some looseness & can see if you look at the nut/hub.tighten the nut , not to tight(the weight of you tool and a bit more )sorry but thats the only way i can explain it.give the wheel a wobble ,you should have no more play.now the technical stuff as it is a tappered bearing it needs a bit more,this is for preload.all tappered bearing must have a set preload on them.as for cormorant comments on modern bearings they are a double ball race & not a tappered bearing, preload pre determined from the factory just tighten the large nut to specs.they are not sealed for water like some people think,we in the workshop remove the dust cap from both sides & add additional greese & refit the covers.After market bearings have minimal greese compared to original.after 20+ years for me its like brushing your teeth. i will go out on a limb here but people who dont no should not touch ,as a example over tighten bearing ,seizes, wheel comes of at 80 down the hwy hits a car ,causes a accident(can happen)we are all trying to save money but if you dont know take it to your merchanic,sitting back and having a read on a forum then going to attempt a repaire dont think so ,as said before been doing this fo 20+ and still learning

[gazza2006au]

i actually think this guys problem is the bearing races are not seated properly inside the wheel hubs causing the problem

[tassjo]

sounds about right,as you tap the cones into the hub and they hit home it is a different sound ,thats is what i mean you just dont gain experience from reading forums.fitting wheel bearings is a basic task for a merchanic or some 1 who has done it before.I HAVE SEEN TRAILER HUBS THAT HAVE HAD THE OLD DOT PUNCH TREATMENT(DONE CAUSE THE CONE IS SPINNIG IN THE HUB)

[Justin Rossiter]

The races are definitely seated properly as the tone changed from a thump to ping. I agree that there is no better experience than doing it yourself, it is my first time and i was happy that for the most part it went pretty smoothly.Late this afternoon I took the buddies off and checked the nut, it was only just past finger tight, so it doesn't seem overnight, any way I took the nut completely off and spun the wheel and it was no different. Put it back on and in the best interest of public safety will take it to my mechanic to give the once over and check my work.
Justin

[gazza2006au]

are u sure the trailer is jacked up high enough and the wheel is not touching the ground? lol

[tassjo]

if you heard that sound you have nothing to worry about,just adjust hub nut as mentioned before & you will be ok

[Justin Rossiter]

Yeah I'm sure it's off the ground Gazza !!!

[Justin Rossiter]

What I want to know is how the hell does Rusty Stainless on You Tube make it look so freakin easy.

Justin

[jeffo]

Just the thread I needed at the moment. The few times I have done my own bearing changes on my trailers it has always taken me longer to get the nut in a place I am happy with, than to actually change and re pack the bearings.

I must say I agree with the "each man to his trade" thing...BUT I would rather have read a heap of stuff online, watched a few videos and done a few bearing changes myself at home if I ever get stuck on the side of the road, miles from no where with a bearing problem.

On my new trailer one side I am happy with (tighten with fingers then just back it off a tiny bit to the nearest hole.)

Then the other side, when i tighten it just finger tight, I am right on a hole, wheel spins freely but there is no wobble at all. Back it off say 1/8th of a turn to the next hole and I get plenty of wobble- Not heaps, but more than the other side. So...is it better to have that wobble or should I stay on the finger tight slot? I drove to the boat ramp on the tighter setting yesterday (only a 10 min drive) and the hub was still cool after.

A little side note- when dismantling the old bearings (was a new trailer) I found the flat washer was floating inside the hub between the 2 bearings rather than between the small bearing and nut!

[Fed]

Stay on the finger tight slot, you do not want to have any freeplay at all.

[Fed]

Got the specs aout of my Ford manual for those who don't have the feel for it.


While rotating the hub, tighten the hub bearing nut to a torque of 30Nm.
Loosen the hub bearing nut half a turn.
Tighten the hub bearing nut to a torque of 1.5Nm.
Install split pin.
On the last point I'd suggest you will find a hole somewhere between 1Nm and 2Nm, can't say I've ever used a tension wrench to do it myself I use the touchy feely method.

The bottom line....
No freeplay, minimum preload.

[Cheech]

Jeffo, I would stay on the finger tight slot, and then check it after you have done a few more K's.

Justin, don't let tassjo put you off. No need to complicate the issue considering you started off just asking a simple question after completing your change. So as long as it is not over tight, and you don't have excessive wabble, then it will be fine. Just check the heat of the hubs at the end of each trip, and each now and then jack it up and check for wabble and smooth spinning.

Interesting that a mechanic friend of mine said he tightens the nut a lot more than I do, but then he has never done boat trailers. Seems that boaties aim for that tiny bit of wabble, and normal trailers not. I don't know why there are the 2 lines of thought on this. There just is.

[jeffo]

Cheech- your right on the money there...it seams the more you read about it all the more different opinions and methods you come across.

[Justin Rossiter]

Some great replies, ThanksWith the little bit of wheel wobble, what is acceptable 2mm, 5 mm, an inch ??? Jeffo I'm with you mate, want to know the in's and outs so if I have a mate or myself stuck, would be able to know what is required to get him/me out of strife.
Justin

[Fed]

No freeplay at all Justin, preload to 1.5Nm (1 Ft/Lb).

As for the stickiness problem just check that the washer didn't hang on the thread when you backed it off because they have a habit of doing that.

I would back both wheels off then re-tighten according to post #34.

While rotating the hub, tighten the hub bearing nut to a torque of 30Nm.
Loosen the hub bearing nut half a turn.
Tighten the hub bearing nut to a torque of 1.5Nm.
Install split pin. On the last point I'd suggest you will find a hole somewhere between 1Nm and 2Nm
I'm sure the Ford Motor Co know how to fit wheel bearings.

[tassjo]

hi cheech i wasnt putting any 1 off but the fact is most people have no idea.A tappered bearing needs PRELOAD ON IT(THATS THE FACT)you might have to do some research on bearings before you make a comment ,after 20 odd years i think i know how to fit bearing .we went to tafe to become a motor merchanic,to learn the correct way of servicing the auto industry.as for your comment on eccesive wobble (you dont no what your talking about( no wobble,a tapperd bearing is adjusted the same ,be it a boat trailer or a hub on a car,dont steer some 1 in the wrong direction

[Justin Rossiter]

OK no wobble then, will borrow a torque wrench to make sure I load them up right. Is the torque the same for all standard trailer wheels and bearings ? 30Nm and 1.5Nm

Justin

[Justin Rossiter]

Just on the topic of Preload, what is the purpose of preload ? Is it ensure that the bearings are seated in the race properly ?

Justin

[tassjo]

yes, you are trying to remove radial & axial movement,a bearing will last longer with some preload on them than have a so called wobble

[tassjo]

just tighten the nut till you have no play/wobble then a bit more,it is done by feel but from the 12 oclock position no more than say 2 oclock hope that helps

[Roughasguts]

just tighten the nut till you have no play/wobble then a bit more,it is done by feel but from the 12 oclock position no more than say 2 oclock hope that helps

Oh I had to read this here thread and my mind boggles there are some clowns here!!!

Yes tighten for a little pre-load to seat the bearing! then back off the castle nut there should be a slight wobble if not! the bearing will get hotter than normal maybe even bind up then you lose the wheel.

So ummm Mr Tafe boy!!! maybe all you need to do is read what is say's on the Timken bearing package! or get some one to actually read it for you! or even if you prefer go to the Timken web site, it positively states do not over tighten! there has to be some play in the wheel bearing otherwise failure will result.

Mate you have been making 23 years worth of mistakes think you had better start reading the packages of any parts you put in from now on.

Talk about people that shouldn't be giving advise.

Sheeesh.

[NAGG]

I'm surprised to hear people advocating wobble ....... the term wobble becomes very subjective .
I dont care what anyone says - a well fitted bearing should have no wobble while allowing the wheel to spin freely .

:exclamation:Now that said , more often than not you just don't get that result - the wheel may not spin more than a rotation or 2 - and this is where you have to be careful as it could be too tight or as simple as the rear seal touching the axle ........... If I'm unsure I'll take the trailer for a bit of a drive - jack it up (feel the wheel for heat .... give the wheel a wobble) and readjust . :) .
I like to check the bearing again after its first trip - jack it up & wobble the wheel ....... sometime you have a slight tick when you move the wheel - I wouldn't call it a wobble though and any adjustment may not be possible as it may be less than one notch in the crown nut.

Chris

[tassjo]

sorry to use the word wobble but its 1 that most understand.as for roughasguts comments yes tighten the nut to seat bearing then back of to the point that the bearing has some preload.A vehicle manufacturer would nut waste time printing manuals with torque specs in them including wheel bearing hub nuts for people like himself to do what they think is right ,they publish manuals with the correct info and procedures for us in the trade to repair it to the way it was when new

[Fed]

RAGS do you have a link to timken where they recommend having freeplay?

[Gon Fishun]

Fit hub and tighten castellated nut, fit wheel and tighten nuts, spin wheel, spin spin spin spin, tightening castellated nut tighten tighten tighten , spin spin spin, back off castellated half a turn, spin spin spin , tighten castellated nut just firm, spin spin spin, grab top and bottom of wheel , wobble wobble wobble , no wobble , no freeplay, good, spin spin spin loosening castellated nut, spin spin spin tighten castellated nut just firm spin spin spin, grab top and bottom of wheel , wobble wobble wobble, no wobble good, no drag good, no freeplay, line up split pin hole with castellation on nut and fit pin. Good for box trailers, boat trailers, caravans, Morris Minors, FJ holdens, Wolseley, Jaguar, Hillman, Falcon, Skoda, Volkswagen, etc etc etc, drum and disc brakes. Repack after 10,000 miles or 12 months or more often under severe conditions. ;D

[Roughasguts]

sorry to use the word wobble but its 1 that most understand.as for roughasguts comments yes tighten the nut to seat bearing then back of to the point that the bearing has some preload.A vehicle manufacturer would nut waste time printing manuals with torque specs in them including wheel bearing hub nuts for people like himself to do what they think is right ,they publish manuals with the correct info and procedures for us in the trade to repair it to the way it was when new

See you have to read Tasso,

These specs will no doubt be specific for your Ford motor car only!!! as no doubt the wheels have fallen off that company.

But we is talking about a boat trailer wheel bearing here! and that states on the Timken installation guide there must be some play in the movement of the wheel bearing otherwise heat and damage will result.

Cheers

[SunnyCoastMark]

I'm surprised to hear people advocating wobble ....... the term wobble becomes very subjective .
I dont care what anyone says - a well fitted bearing should have no wobble while allowing the wheel to spin freely .

:exclamation:Now that said , more often than not you just don't get that result - the wheel may not spin more than a rotation or 2 - and this is where you have to be careful as it could be too tight or as simple as the rear seal touching the axle ........... If I'm unsure I'll take the trailer for a bit of a drive - jack it up (feel the wheel for heat .... give the wheel a wobble) and readjust . :) .
I like to check the bearing again after its first trip - jack it up & wobble the wheel ....... sometime you have a slight tick when you move the wheel - I wouldn't call it a wobble though and any adjustment may not be possible as it may be less than one notch in the crown nut.

Chris

Yes & No - Ideally a well fitted bearing should have no end play (or wobble) - However, there are only 3 positions that the split pin can be put through the castle nut and it is certainly preferable to have the hub slightly loose than slightly tight.

As the hub works and heats up ,that "slightly tight" will be even tighter and that is when they overheat and ultimately fail.

Mark

[Roughasguts]

Yes & No - Ideally a well fitted bearing should have no end play (or wobble) - However, there are only 3 positions that the split pin can be put through the castle nut and it is certainly preferable to have the hub slightly loose than slightly tight.

As the hub works and heats up ,that "slightly tight" will be even tighter and that is when they overheat and ultimately fail.

Mark

Precisely!

[NAGG]

Yes & No - Ideally a well fitted bearing should have no end play (or wobble) - However, there are only 3 positions that the split pin can be put through the castle nut and it is certainly preferable to have the hub slightly loose than slightly tight.

As the hub works and heats up ,that "slightly tight" will be even tighter and that is when they overheat and ultimately fail.

Mark

Hence why I said - check for heat & give it a wobble .......... you might get a slight tick (very minute movement) - but that's it.
My last boat had been towed over 45,000km with no failures using this method - my new boat has been towed 8000km since March ....... I'll stick with my method (no heat & no failures) .. (Timkin bearings)

Chris

[Roughasguts]

Hence why I said - check for heat & give it a wobble .......... you might get a slight tick (very minute movement) - but that's it.
My last boat had been towed over 45,000km with no failures using this method - my new boat has been towed 8000km since March ....... I'll stick with my method (no heat & no failures) .. (Timkin bearings)

Chris

But Nagg you got to remember you are aware of yor wheel bearings!!.. check them constantly for heat binding Etc.

For the average Joe! Timken have to allow a little more clearance for the average trailer towing guy! that will never give the bearings, grease, water ingestion, heat! from brakes binding, another thought once he has put them in.

It's all in the name of safety and not being stranded on the side of the road.

Cheers.