2 stroke needs a clean out

[fishfeeder]

I have a 200hp Evinrude Ficht (2004) that had been over propped for years, It is now running a lot better with the right prop. I am still getting a lot of Burnt oil on the leg...
I am wondering if I give it a good clean out with something will this stop it from happening as its a pain the Butt to clean off the boat and leg..

Is there a good product around for de-carbonizing a large 2 stroke ???

I should add the motor is running fantastic, Starts first go every time and hasn't missed a beat the last 3 trips, were I have used over 300L of fuel, since replacing the prop

Cheers
Brett

[honda900]

Fishfeeder,

Johnson had a product called engine tune that I used to run through mine, once a year or so to decar it.

Regards
Honda

[cormorant]

What oil are you using in it ?
Are you now getting full WOT and 100% it is running on all 6cyl?

When they run on 5 they appear to be overpropped and they put a lot of oil and fuel down the exhaust by running rich on the 5 working injectors. Just wondering how you determined it was overpropped and if you have put it on the computer and confirmed all is OK and no alarms?

The extra oil gould be a over-oiling oil pump ( very unusual) but that would generally also alarm ( it is just a low pressure injector running oil through it)

What guages do you have attached?

Sorry if this caused alarm by saying it may not be teh prop but better to find out before you score a bore or throw a rod.

Engine tuner was the BRP product but you still must use it carefully. It will get rid of carbon deposits in the cylinder and exhaust ports. Correct oil and additives will do a lot of that as well while you are running and stop carbon buildup.

Check your compression?
Check the butterflys and ensure they are all opening and not sloppy when you manually move them and that they line up .
.
Do you have a multimeter with a induction clamp?
Do you have the computer software and lead?
if not ( no responsibility taken- and if you need to ask how to do this safely probably best you don't do it)
If you are mechanical and can do this safely it may tell you if you have one plug, injector, failed ECU down

So with the motor idling on muffs, warm and the cowl off does it vibrate at all? It should be smooth as. I mean you shouldn't see it vibrate they are that smooth.
Pull each plug lead sequentially - does the motor vibrate? The compter ECU willl pick up revs and put extra fuel into each other cyl so it may be hard to notice. Put plug lead back on it back - smooth again? Check with each plug and you may discover you have a dead pot if there is no reaction when you pull the plug lead off.. The dead pot may be either , compresion, fuel injector, spark, sparkplug, ecu.

What is the history of the motor, hours and has person who knows ficht / etec serviced it ?

I think a visit to Downes marine will get you sorted or at least have a chat to em as they will instantly know WOT , speed and prop for your boat hull set up and if you aren't achieving that then it may not have been a prop issue to start with.

[robo55]

try can of YUK OFF spray it into carby till nearly chokes motor then spray again few times then spray it in till motor stops then let sit all night and start it again next day will clean 2 stroke out ok right thru i do it twice a year my old motor still goes well and cleans it out even thru exhaust you will see remnants pushed out thru water it surprise you how much crap in them try it half price to boat shops i get mine at auto barn/super cheap worth a try ROB

[cormorant]

some of the cans of stuff have no lubricant in them and can wash the oil off bearings in a 2 stroke and are more designed as a carby varnish remover for 4 stroke rather than a decarb treatment for a 2 stroke. I don't know yuk off so don't know about it.

[Noelm]

I reckon use the correc oil and make sure get max RPM at full throttle and use it for a while before you start spraying stuff into the engine, good oil will NOT carbon up a FICHT.

[fishfeeder]

I only use Evinrude XD 50 oil in it...

I am getting 5800 rpm loaded with fuel fishing gear and 3 guys. I was only getting 5200max with a light load before changing props that's why I said I was over propped before. The motor has only done around 240hrs and was serviced about 50hrs ago

I will check the plugs tonight and see if they are all the same colour, Grey hopefully..
SO if I pull a lead off when its running it should drop a few revs but then pick up again ??

I have checked the butterflies are opening fully, I checked that when I started playing with props, so I know there right.

There is a little unburnt oil on the leg that had dripped out from the Lower Engine cover. It wasn't there after I had cleaned the boat so Its dripped out from just sitting with the engine all the way down. I will check how much oil I used last trip as I always fill the container before each outing and I know how much fuel I used so that might help work this out also.

Cheers
Brett

[Stuart]

Sounds like its running a bit rich then.

[cormorant]

ECU on it will automatically adjust idle when you pull off the plug lead so that it will maintain approx idle revs. It will add extra fuel to other cylinders to compensate teh one no longer adding to power output. A smartarse little computer is designed to not allow it to stall if you get what I mean. They will idle ( roughly on 4 pots ) but on 5 pots it is hard to notice you are down a pot.

Basically it is not revs change you are looking for ( computer compensates) you are lokking for a change in smoothness. If you pull a plug 1 and there is no change in smoothness - something in number 1 is wrong. If you put it back and then pull pot 2 and it idles ( same revs automatically adjusted) but you notice the motor is not as smooth you know that number 2 was contributing to teh motor running and idling smoothly so it is Ok.

Hope that makes some sort of sense. I have run twins and can pick it from engine note when they are next to each other as it is no imediately obvious until under load on the ater when one motor won't rev out and you are down 40hp.

Look I may be up the wrong tree on this especially if the motor was incorrectly set up from the start as you suggest ( overpropped).

Looking at a old boat/ engine test report can tell you what a similar weight / shape hull should achieve with that motor on for a partticular prop. If you are not close to those numbers for a simlar prop it may be a motor issue. Even if a diff brand motor in teh test 200hp should push XX boat hull XX knots at WOT fi you get what I mean

The other causes for oil out the exhaust is the motor is not reaching operating temperature and stale fuel.
Stuffed thermostats stuck on mean incomplete combustion and again teh ECU overoil.
Stale fuel means the motor injects extra ( with extra oil) to make designed HP as the XX throttle setting. If you have the throttle set on 50% and it is overloaded ( fuel won't produce power) and only reaches 3000rpm ( for example) and the fuel / rpm graph in the motor think it should be getting 3500 rpm the ECU will constantly try and accellerate ( inject more fuel and oil) trying to get the motor into the rev profile the computer ecu expects. It can't get teh revs up cause of stale fuel as it is overloaded ( or down a pot) so the whole motor runs rich and raw oil and fuel sludge ends up in the exhaust. Fuel has to be reallt crap with no volatiles to do this.

After running overloaded setting them up properly when they are allowed to rev out they do start to clean the exhaust etc

[fishfeeder]

Thanks heaps Cormorant for your input..

Is this right..
If I pull each plug they should be light grey if they are firing (like most 2 strokes..)
If a pot isn't firing it should be black and wet...

I will then start motor on Muffs and check if the motor is running smooth after is warms up. Then I will pull one plug lead and see if the motor runs any different, taking note of any small change. then replace and try the next one and see if any one lead makes a difference..

I was going to service the motor myself (plugs, water impeller, fuel filters) but now I am thinking I will get the motor serviced before heading to the M&G at 1770. Is there anything I should ask the guys to do or check that they might not normally do during a general service ?.... Was hoping to not need to spend another $700+
on getting it serviced seeing its only done about 50hrs since the last one...

You mentioned stale fuel.... I fuel up (200L tank) before each trip now because the weather hasn't been playing the game this year..... My reasoning is that I am adding 100L of new fuel each trip... I am only using 92 Fuel (non-ethanol) and now you have me thinking I maybe should be using 98 and see if that helps.... I never thought about the fuel until now...

Cheers

[cormorant]

The fuel has to be really dead to cause a problem and stored in a hot climate and a bit of moisture but it can be a part of the issue.

Yep you have the idea with plug leads. If you find a dead pot you could swap plugs to prove it isn't just a dead plug or check with a spare plug that the coil is firing.

A extra couple of possible issues with checking a direct injected 2 stroke when diagnosing the prob.

Plugs - only one thing wrong with light grey. If the injector is stuffed or the wire to it or the ecu or the fuel supply to it then you may still have a basically dry plug as no fuel goes in. It will be slightly different as oil in those motors is injected into the crankase totally seperate to the fuel which is direct into the pot. So even if a injector is stuffed and no fuel the bearings still get oil and some is sucked into the pot even though it isn't firing. This oil and no fuel in the crankcase is why you need to be careful if decarbing a ficht as opposed to a normal 2 stroke

Regarding plugs make sure you are using teh right ones and they are indexed correctly.

After 50 hours all you need to do is have them check the computer and confirm all is OK going through a cyl drop test and checking codes on the ECU. Would take less than 40 minutes and no parts required so they can stick they 700 up their chuffas

One other thing.
Fuel restriction is the other reason they run poorly at high revs . Make 100% sure your extenal fuel filters and hoses have no restrictions and the one the cowl is clear. With 150hp and up too smaller fuel hoses , pinched, kinked, can cause not enough fuel flow and also if hose fittings are not tight then air can suck in and airate the fuel causing issues as well.

Try the simple things first as no harm in checking hoses and so on.

You need to detrmin if the motor has ever run on all 6 and has pushed the boat to it's potential or was just overpropped.

[Noelm]

I should add, it is quite normal (well not normal, but common) for them to drip/leak a bit of oil, both mine used to do it all the time and I could never find where it was coming from

[fishfeeder]

Cheers guys and thanks again for your time...

I will have a play tonight and see what I can find out.
I have a NEW set of plugs at home from when I was having problems about a year ago... Nothing to do with plugs but Wynnum Marine changed them anyway when they were problem solving, I know about the indexing of the plugs so will check that as well.

Will report back if I find anything out tonight or it will go in for a service and hooked up to there computer for a report.
I will get them to do a cyl drop test at the same time. They give a printout with the service so I can compare it.

Cheers
Brett

[Dignity]

Brett, I was going to offer you a can of evinrude carbon detuner or whatever it is called as I have had one sitting on the shelf for some tine and never game to use it. The main reason is that every time I thought I had a problem I would read a post by some one like Cormorant or others and realised I know Jack Shite about motors and probably doing more harm than good. I ended up looking around until I found a mechanic who knew the ropes and he did wonders for my motors. I have since bought a 4 stroker and have not looked back.

The can of spray is still there if you want it but then again I think it will probably end up in the garage sale next weekend and some one who thinks he knows a little more than Jack Shite wil buy it, I hope.

[fishfeeder]

at the moment 4 strokes look so easy compared to 2 strokes....... its harder then brain surgery

[WalrusLike]

Don't want to steal thread... But this is a quick question.

Should my 115 Yammie Saltwater 2stroke idle with a little bit of a vibration every second or so? It's just that you guys appear to be saying it should all be silky smooth. (if I understand you correctly..)

Mine is only 45 hours old.

[Lancair]

Walruslike, the thread is discussing issues with a 200hp Evinrude FICHT motor, so NO, no one is saying your Yammie 115 will idle smooth.

From my experience around Yammie 2 strokers, NO. Your motor will NOT idle smooth with no vibration, itll idle like its about to shake itself to bits. LOL ALL Yammie 2 strokes Ive seen, idle a bit lumpy but smooth out at higher power.
Sorry the noise, smoke, rough as guts idle and high fuel consumption, you will just have to live with.

LOVE my Etec115, none of the above issues with it.

[fishfeeder]

checked my plugs today and they are all very oily and all had a bit of carbon on them..
I started the motor on the muffs and waited to the motor warmed up and started pulling plugs, The motor ran with no vibration but a little rough... anyway I pulled each plug lead off and the motor changed note for a split second and then smoothed out again, so to me all plugs/pots are firing OK... I then started looking around the motor and the only thing I could find was a bit of fuel/oil around the front of the motor below the intake as if the motor had been flooded or running very rich (just a guess)

I rang Wynnum Marine and its booked in for Wednesday, I had a bit of a chat and he said they will do some testes and will give me a written report and call when they find the issue. But he did say it sounds like the motor is running to rich..

I will let you all know what they find.

Cheers
Brett

[Muddy Toes]

I rang Wynnum Marine and its booked in for Wednesday, I had a bit of a chat and he said they will do some testes and will give me a written report and call when they find the issue.
Cheers
Brett

Wynnum Marine are doing what with your testes?:o
Don't want to sound unappreciative or anything mate but you can probably keep the results and the report to yourself.

[WalrusLike]

He's having them marinised. In winter water they won't jump up into his throat so much when the cold water hits them.

The operation is called a 'balls up'.

[cormorant]

Around the intakes there is no fuel as such ( only injected at the head) and the only thing there is the fuel hoses, low pressure fuel pump and the vapour separator. Vap sep is is a needle and seat affair and they do have some issues especially if they are getting airated fuel from a leaking fuel hose stuffed fuel pump. Only othe rthing there is teh fuel filter if it wasn;t screwed on tightly or has a damaged seal may leak.

Good news that all pots were fueled and firing

[fishfeeder]

OK, dropped the boat off today for Wynnum marine to go over...
They couldn't find anything wrong with it after checking everything.
Checked the engine computer and No errors,
Checked the engine temp and its fine (60 degrees)
Checked the Cyl Drop test (?) and said no problems there.
Checked the exhaust to make sure it wasn't clogged and all clear.
Checked the plugs and fine.....

So maybe I am just stressing about nothing !!

Oh and they only charged me $100 for there time, which I am happy to pay for peace of mind..

[Noelm]

so then, all good to go for 1770? Was talking to Pete this morning, and all seems good.

[fishfeeder]

Bring on 1770 I say, I might have a seat on the boat for yourself and son for a few days, if the mate can't get the weekends off work...

Will let you know soon

Cheers
Brett

[ozscott]

Walruslike, the thread is discussing issues with a 200hp Evinrude FICHT motor, so NO, no one is saying your Yammie 115 will idle smooth.

From my experience around Yammie 2 strokers, NO. Your motor will NOT idle smooth with no vibration, itll idle like its about to shake itself to bits. LOL ALL Yammie 2 strokes Ive seen, idle a bit lumpy but smooth out at higher power.
Sorry the noise, smoke, rough as guts idle and high fuel consumption, you will just have to live with.

LOVE my Etec115, none of the above issues with it.

I have owned two 115 v4's. When out of the water and no backpressure there is some roughness particularly cold. In the water they idle smoothly and particularly in gear.at.idle they are very smooth. I will have to remember to.take a.video. cheers