Mooring or Trailer?

[stevemid]

I've been thinking about the pro's and con's of having a trailer for the boat I'm building and would appreciate some feedback.

According my research on this forum, a trailer is a troublesome, rusting, constantly deteriorating device for transporting a boat to a dilapidated ramp, with no parking, and from one launching/recovery disaster to another.

So I've been weighing up the +'s and -'s of having or not having a trailer.

First of all, I live in Sydney, where the best real estate deal in the world is a NSW Maritime mooring. Cost is about $400. per year and you can store a dinghy on the foreshore. This is what I've done in the past with my sailboat.

When I added up the costs of a trailer I've got:
Trailer: $10,000.
Used Tow Vehicle 10,000. Patrol, Cruiser or something equal?
Storage for above 1,500. per annum. The driveway is out of the question per MOF
Licensing for above 1,000. per annum,
plus costs of driving to Qld a few times.

I thought it would be cheaper to have the boat transported to Qld and back several times at 1.45/km and back haul @ .85/km. I'll base the boat in Sydney Harbour anyway so a mooring seems to make sense for that.

On the minus side, I'd have to carry water to flush the engines each time. How much would that take? Also there's the issue of security.

As much as I'd love to have a Patrol some day, it just doesn's seem to add add up. Anyway what do you all think?

Steve

[FishHunter]

Dont forget antifouling and its upkeep. You must have a monster of a boat to spend 10k on a trailer Ally for a 6m or so boat wont even be that much and if you go ally you dont really have much in the way of rust issues. I also dont understand the fascination with large SUv's when a cheap as chips Commodore or Falcon will tow over 2000kg without dramas.

[stevemid]

Yes, antifouling. I bought enough Coppershield epoxy based antifoul which is claimed to have a 10 year life but requires a scrub down every 4,6,12 months, depending on who you listen to or where the boat is based. So, the cost of that for me would be $775. for the product, anticipating a 10 year life. Anyone have experience with this product?
Steve

[Chimo]

Steve

Do you have a rack storage option? Security much better than a mooring and you could get the boat lifted onto the truck at the rack site fot transport.

Trailers dont have to rust if you have a good set of rollers to evenly carry the weight and a good winch to haul the boat on. Shouldn't even need to wet the hubs and brakes, I dont on my Seafarer Vagabond and it weighs heaps more than your project will when its finished. You probably could tow yours with a sedan or similar. Whats the estimated final weight anyhow?

Cheers
Chimo

[stevemid]

Chimo, Weight is supposed to come out at 1250 kg + 500 budgeted for my stuff, water, fuel etc. (but I've taken a lotta shite over the 500 estimate.)

Steve

[PinHead]

How big is the boat?

[The Woo]

Would be a shame to keep your new boat in the drink Steve. And don't for a second believe the 10 year claim of the antifoul. Two, maybe three years tops, and that's assuming a favourable anchorage.
Remember the boat still needs to come out for regular services as well (if they're to be done properly, which I know you'll want).
PLUS, I'm really not a fan of leaving boats of your style construction in the water. If you have any unseen impact damage, it can cause a lot of rot/damage before you realise there's an issue. Getting it out after every use at least allows you to cast an eye.

In the end, it's your decision mate. I'm of the view a trailer-able boat should come out.
But, I'm not familiar enough with ramps/parking yadda yadda in Sydney and surrounds, so obviously that will have some sway as well.
Cheers, Ben.

[Chimo]

Steve

You could keep under the 2 tonne limit re brakes so I'd go the trailer way with the max number of rollers to support the hull and make for easy retrieve and launch. Maybe the compromise is that you park the rig at a club site when not in use and either tow it or truck it up north when the mood takes.

I agree with Ben and would not leave it in the drink either.

Cheers
Chimo

[Apollo]

Steve

I would definately be opting for the trailer option. This would increase your immediate options for use beyond the harbour for short trips away. Think Hawkesbury, Pittwater, Brisbane Waters, Lake Macquarie, Port Stephens, Botany, Myall lakes, etc all within very easy towing range. With the weight you are talking, you can get away with a falcon or cheap 4wd and a reasonably priced trailer (or build one).

Having a boat on the water makes maintenance and repairs harder as well has subjecting the boat to a harsher environment increasing its rate of deteriation. I have several mates with boats in the water and they envyed us with a trailer yacht as we took it far and wide including inland waters, out of state and close by to those areas mentioned above. They all had security issues with everything from outboards to electronics being knocked off to drunken idiots hitting their boats in the middle of the night.

Given the amount of work you have done on this boat and how well it is coming together, plus its flexibility in use, there is no way i would want to stick it away on a mooring.

Just my opinion.

[Horse]

I agree with the others. You could even look at the option of putting together a basic launching cradle rather than full blown road trailer and keep it at one of the waterfront clubs. At under 2000kg its not a big issue to tow and it would improve the ease of use considerably

[wirlybird]

no question trailer option will be the best in the long run

[PinHead]

if antifouled you will need to lift it out at a minimum of every 12 months and you will have to use the boat often..those lil critters grow like mad on the hull..even on antifoul..some of them are immune to it..been there..done that..cost $100 a time for a diver to wipe its bum.

[stevemid]

Thanks for the responses, guys. You've really given me some thoughts to chew on over and above the economics.
Pinhead, the boat will be just over 7m or 23' 2.5m or 8'2" beam overall. I've attached a picture of one of the same design.
On the towing/weight issue, I assumed a gal trailer would weigh in at about 700kg making my total about 2500kg. This thread on towing with a Falcon was pretty interesting http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?177053-Towing-Capacity-of-a-Ford-Falcon-Wagon-2300kg
Makes me wish I had a company car but if I was to buy a falcon tow vehicle, would a manual trannie be better than an auto?

About 10 years ago a mate of mine bought an imported 25' Catalina sailboat which came with a trailer from the US. It sat in his front garden for 5 years then for whatever reason, he got a bug up his bum to have it Aus registered (re-galvanised, brakes all round, etc.) 5 years now his fancy re-done trailer is still gracing his front garden while the boat sits on a mooring. He's hinted he may be up for selling it, so re-modeling that might be a cheaper option than the quote I got for:

7M CAT. TRAILER, 14" GALV RIM AND LT TYRES, TANDEM 45MM GALV AXLES, ELECTIC/HYDRAULIC BRAKES, CENTRE WALKWAY, 3 SPEED TF WINCH, BILGE ROLLER ALONG BOTH SIDES 3,000kg. $8385

Any thing in this seem unreasonable?

Steve

[The Woo]

Steve, personally I think your boat is beyong a Falcon. Your boat also has quite a lot of windage, and other large vehicles or cross winds could easily see the boat/trailer combo start telling the Falcon where it wants to go.
A heavier tow vehicle would be wise, and as you know, a Patrol, 'Cruiser, Pajero, Prado, Grand Cherokee etc would be much better suited. Much more legal too, as the Falc (from memory) peaks @ 2,200kg for the auto, 1,600kg for a manual, BUT, they also stipulate a max speed limit of 80klm/h @ 2,200kg. I'm a Falcon fan, but your boat is beyond them.

Of course a cheap dolly type trailer (sans suspension/brakes etc) will suffice if you can leave it in a boat club yard with their own ramp. Done this before and it works a treat.

Food for thought mate.

[Chimo]

Steve

If the boat / trailer weight is near 2500kg you will need the elec over hydraulic breakaway brakes. So you wont pull it safely or legally with a sedan unless you consider an aluminium trailer (maybe) and it may be worth checking McKay in Melb who do build some good units.

An old GQ Patrol will haul 2500kg as the GVM is 2800kg and the combined mass is 5300Kg (off my rego label) See if you can hunt up a 4.2 diesel with turbo or fit one or a 4.2 petrol but the mpg will hurt with ULP if you go hard.

[The Woo]

I have a mate selling his GQ 4.2 Patrol with a Safari turbo kit. Good thing. But you proba don't want one just yet ;) haha

[Chimo]

And Steve here are the makings for your new trailer or stand in the short term if thats your wish. Looks the goods for the price (plus freight / bugger!) There may be a way who knows?

http://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/marine-items/boat-trailer-hardstand/95166

Cheers
Chimo

Woo PM me the GQ details please

[The Woo]

Shall get and PM it ;)

[stevemid]

Chimo,
Looks built like its built like a brick shite house but $4K? I would have thought the cost was in the axles/braking system. This is 8K.

[Chimo]

Price: AU $750 ono

[Chimo]

Price: AU $750 ono
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[cormorant]

Hi Steve


So many things depend on your usage and if you are 1 up or with mates/ family.

There is now 2 hardstand / racking marinas , one on pitwater and one on the harbour but if you have a mate with a waterfront and a pontoon it is teh way to go. Pen rental in Sydney is seriously offensive in cost

The antifoul you are talking about is OK for if it is trailered but you need to check with people who are using it in the harbour. It can collect slime fast and then everything attaches to the slime. Get a 1st hand opinion from someone using it in your local waters. Remember with any antifoul it is a hassle to coat with other styles afterwards if it doesn't work out. If your local yacht racers are not using it I would be asking why.

Several on water storage options from airlifts , floating docks and look up seapen

http://www.seapen.com.au/seapen.php ( yes it is the most painful website!!!)

Trailer . The great thing about cat trailers is you can do ally as they have the structural core to get stiffness up the tunnel. Look at a sailfish ( style) alloy trailer , stainless brakes , led lights and electric over hydraulic with durahubs. Very little maintainance and very long life but not cheap up front ( but worth it) . The ability to do maintainance out of the water, the less maintainance and wear and tear.

The downside is ramps and the people at em!! Downside is being a big rig on the road. Grip on ramps is a issue an d4wd can make it easy to access less than perfect ones at all tides safely.

The idea of transport is a vexed one as well. A full cabin cat with self draining floor on a trailer can't go on a regular truck as it will be over height. You need a lowloader and even then with our cat on a trailer we were overheight with spotlight and radar. 1mm over 2.5m in NSW for width and you are overwidth and the truck checking stations and RTA will catch up with big fines on the truck driver. Yes you can do oversize trucking and low loader but not at those rates and you have to wait for the right truck and then you have storage at the other end etc etc.

Let me tell you that to get around the height limits we used to put the boat and trailer on the low loader and then jack it up and take the wheels off and lower axel onto blocks we made. Took half a hour for 6 wheels for 2 blokes and reverse at the other end. We did use a newcastle bloke who transports caravans who had a extra low low loader rollon rolloff and with a spotlight off and tyres at low pressure we were 10mm under with cold truck tyres and lastly there was a super expensive towtruck that Sydney busses used to move busses but it was always on standby for the STA .

Now towing in NSW 2.5 is your limit on width without restrictions. Go over that and have a accident and you risk not being insured so keep it under 2.5m

Now the bad - Think about security. Unfortunately the small outboards you will have will be prime targets for theft on a moored boat and on a trailer visible to the public depending where you live as they are portable.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sydney-region/boats-jet-skis/bayliner-flybridge-bay-cruiser-houseboat-6-birth-economical-25ft/1004393150

Talking of motors did you see my post the other day where there is a QLD bloke importing small chinese diesel outboards. If they were reliable becuase you are displacement the weight wouldn't matter and would be great range but not sure about noise or vibration as I haven't seen em in the flesh.

If you are going to trailer the boat I'd be checking with the designer on if anymore glass matting would be required along the keels and if he suggests tefflon strips or rollers and what spacings. Check what he suggests for strap ro tiedown points as painted boats can cop a flogging from vibrating straps on the road

[stevemid]

Price: AU $750 ono
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I woulda swore it said 4k but musta been a grey moment

[Smithy]

My BA Forte sedan has a 2,300kg tow kit and heavy duty springs on it. If you were buying a Falcon for towing I would go a wagon for a bit of extra weight and the rod and esky storage in the back. It had no probs towing my Stabi all over the countryside but it was under 2T. I towed a 6.2 Seafarer Vagabond around Port Stephens with it and that was getting a bit scary. I'd say that was over 2.5T I wouldn't want anything approaching the 2,300kg. It did it but only just. Speed wobbles on the open road and had grip issues on the Little Cove ramp at low tide but then I also saw Rodeos and stuff with dramas on the sand at the bottom as well. Once you spun through the sand and got grip on the concrete it was ok. You'd want an auto with a transmission cooler. The clutch wouldn't last long on a ramp towing big stuff. 4wds with low range are an advantage on ramps. An alloy trailer will save you a bit of weight. I look forward to seeing where this discussion goes. Lots of pluses and minuses for both.

[Chimo]

Smithy you were game hitching a Vag behind a Falcon. Mine behind the Patrol (GQ 4.2 manual turbo diesel) is keen to share the fact that it is there but an easy safe tow. There is no way IMHO that the boat Steve is building will be safe or pleasant to tow behind anything less than a Patrol or equivalent. The windage alone will be a killer. At least the GQs are now affordable esp if one can find one in good mechanical condition thats not not rust affected.

The other issue will be whether the total package will be legal and who wants to spend retirement as a pauper if you get into an accident / some idiot hits you and you have no insurance and get sued as well.

Cheers
Chimo

PS Steve toughen up the boats bottom, buy a trailer (with lots of rollers and an electric winch so you don't have to wet your brakes) and a old 4WD (Woos mates Patrol?) and forget the trucking.
PS 2 You can always leave your boat up here, plenty of us to look after it!