What chance have the fish got?

[flatzie]

Had lunch today at Golden Beach, Caloundra, as i was working just nearby. I sat on the shore near the military jetty, and watched an old grandad with his grandson come in to the ramp. They loaded up the boat then the old bloke dragged a miserable little flattie out of the boat, must have been lucky to be 30cm, and I know Ive seen heaps of flatties. He walked to the water right in front of me and cleaned it, the boy was telling me how glad his grandma would be.
Yesterday arvo late off Redcliffe, two boats sitting inside the green zone.
I know there are still plenty of fish around for the smart anglers, but I wonder what will be left in the future as so many people blatantly ignore or are not even aware of fishing regulations.
What chance have the fish got?
Flatzie

[Almako]

Maybe if the government did a better job of promoting the laws more people would be up to speed with them. Us hard core fishos know about it cause we can't stop thinking about going fishing, but this poor bugger probably grabbed a rod out of the attic and thought he might treat the grandson to the experience.
As for green zones we can't even get *-Maps to put green zones on their charts, sure **vionics do. So too bad if you previously purchased a GPS brand that supports *-maps.
I'm an advocate for all this green zone and bag limit stuff but how about making life easy for us. Oh and as an example of a job poorly done by the government, the other year when they introduced the snapper ban over those few months, who would have known unless you logged into this site, or happened to stumble across it. If you get my point.

[Slider]

You have got to be kidding Flatzie!! You're getting upset about an old guy and his grandson taking 1 flathead out of an increasing population that he might well have measured and be legal. And 2 boats in a green zone that might not be catching anything, but defend pros taking tonnes of fish in nets in the same region. Think your perception of the chances that the fish have, may be a little skewed. Still, you've provided me with a good laugh.

[Da-Jew-Man]

Agree with Slider.
Mate wanted to fish Teewah Beach Tuesday.So up we went.
From about 1.00pm till dark we wathced the mullet netters go back full come back again and then go back full again.
Guessed about 10 ton at least.
Absolute Bull....
When are they going to stop this

[Slider]

That wasn't really the point I was trying to make as such Da-Jew-Man. More as a pointer to Flatzie that I haven't forgotten, and still have the abusive pm he sent me last year that I didn't appreciate when I'm going to enormous lengths in trying to improve his and everyone else's fishing. He will find out in time how far off the mark he was. Well actually, I can prove now, and could prove then, how wrong his comments were.

However, anyone camping up Teewah Beach these holidays will be mighty pleased that the single haul (not two) of mullet you talk about were taken up around the camping area. Is a fair amount of time that the 2nd load hadn't been kept on ice.

Anyway, I wasn't planning on hijacking this thread.

[flatzie]

Its true Almako, its not easy, but it is our responsibility to know. Its challenging tho when changes are made , and no advices are sent out.
Every green zone is clearly defined on maps and charts that are up to date. If people cant read that, define that, then they also cant read where reefs are, rocks, and beacons are. That makes them a danger on the water. The maps are shown at almost every boat ramp. No excuse. Reference is made signwrtten in the concrete of the ramp, how much more info do people need?
Cheers
Flatzie
PS Netting mullet is LEGAL by pros. and is sustainable. taking undersize flathead is not.

Cheers
Flatzie

[Slider]

It's LEGAL to cumulatively throw tonnes of dead bycatch overboard from trawlers each night in Moreton Bay, but that doesn't make it right. And how do you know that the current levels of mullet netting are sustainable flatzie? Because FQ say so? Just like they say that the Noosa North Shore netting of tailor, bream, tarwhine, whiting, dart, golden trevally, snub-nosed dart - species which have near disappeared altogether - is sustainable?

But even if mullet populations can withstand current harvest levels into the future (I'm skeptical), the impact that mullet netting has on other species, is not sustainable and is drastically detrimental to land based recreational prospects. I know you wouldn't agree with that, but I have strong evidence to support the claim - evidence that you evidently don't understand, so there's little value in my trying to convince you of that. My strong evidence, and the fact that fish are now rarely caught on the Noosa North Shore (as an example location that I have intimate knowledge of), contrasts significantly with a distinct lack of evidence that FQ are able to provide that this fishery is sustainable. The fact that the pros working the Noosa North Shore keep asking me if I've managed to arrange a buy back of their licences, speaks volumes in itself. Not to mention the phone calls I've had from pros from the Caloundra region agreeing with what I'm doing because they're worried about the future of inshore fish stocks there and whether their sons will be able to continue their family's fishing tradition - of netting mullet.

Flathead populations have increased markedly over the last few years as is common knowledge. Do you really think that this 1 flathead, which you don't know whether was legal or not, will reverse the trend? There must be lots of under or oversized flathead being caught that you don't know about, yet populations are still climbing.

So are you worried about fish being taken from green zones or the safety of boaties fishing in green zones? The rocks were there before green zone establishment and with high percentages of fishers abiding by the regulations, then the 'danger' that non-compliant fishers pose is very much reduced. Were there problems with dangerous boaties before green zones?

I mean seriously flatzie, what thinking person could go along with you that this single flathead capture was a worse thing than the netting of tonnes of mullet. It's laughable.

Is it a relative or a friend that is a commercial netter flatzie? Should I expect a pm? You have a week to get the spelling of your expletives right as I'll be away from today.

[phantomphisher]

Besides, was it even a dusky???

[fat-buoy]

The thing that sh*ts me about the pros is that for the most part the produce they get doesn't even stay with us as they are chasing the dollar.. good on them I suppose it is all business but surely Asia and other countries have their own fish, I mean we import a heap of their crap and send our prime fish over there WTF.. If the government got serious they could stop it overnight and simply have a sustainable fishing future for all but until then the seas will be raped over and over and over..

[Triple]

a miserable little flattie out of the boat, must have been lucky to be 30cm, and I know Ive seen heaps of flatties.
so many people blatantly ignore or are not even aware of fishing regulations.
Flatzie

So are you 100% SURE that it was a dusky? As I'm sure you are aware that any other flattie only needs to be 30.1cm to be legal and if it wasn't a dusky then can your eyes determine the difference between 29.9cm and 30.1cm at a distance? before you grill the old bloke on here that he is doing the wrong thing you would want to make sure you were 100% right -

Flathead All flathead (except dusky flathead) 30 min Combined limit of 5 in total of all species (except dusky flathead) Dusky flathead (mud flathead) 40 min 75 max 5

If you were so sure did you inform him of his mistake and tell him directly that he is doing the wrong thing?



Yesterday arvo late off Redcliffe, two boats sitting inside the green zone.

Flatzie

You do know you can go into green zones, boating and diving is allowed.. Were they actually fishing?

I am 100% against taking undersize fish and fishing in the greenzones but would want to be pretty damn sure someone is doing the wrong thing before I tell THEM or contact the correct authorities.

[flatzie]

::) Thanks Slider and Triple, I will go away and try harder.::)

[aussie_stu]

Agree with Slider.
Mate wanted to fish Teewah Beach Tuesday.So up we went.
From about 1.00pm till dark we wathced the mullet netters go back full come back again and then go back full again.
Guessed about 10 ton at least.
Absolute Bull....
When are they going to stop this

From what I heard it was 20+ ton and came from the lagoon @ rainbow side, but that's only what I heard

[kingcray]

there seems to be the odd few around that green zone off woody that try to police it themselvs. on 2 out of my last 3 trips out there i have had some clown yell out to me telling me i am in the green zone, when i am clearly not. the last bloke wasnt even fishing but sitting there like a security guard. I approached him almost banged into him and told him to mind his own business and pointed to teh signs on the bank and the markers on the water showing i was well in the clear. He shut up real quick..I dont wanna have to feel as though people are reporting me and hassling me when im out there. i dropped pots along outside the zone edge and headed to mud for the day,, came back and they were moved, even upside down. By this guy i dont know maybe. As others said , i am certainly aginst people doing the wrong thing, but theres always somebody wrongly accusing others as well.
my 2c
Dean

[Triple]

Red is from Flatzie but he edited his post..

Originally Posted by Triple
So are you 100% SURE that it was a dusky? As I'm sure you are aware that any other flattie only needs to be 30.1cm to be legal and if it wasn't a dusky then can your eyes determine the difference between 29.9cm and 30.1cm at a distance? before you grill the old bloke on here that he is doing the wrong thing you would want to make sure you were 100% right - Check! try him walking right past with a tiny flattie, are you serious>

yeah I am... Try putting this in your first post, "the old bloke dragged a miserable little DUSKY flattie out of the boat, must have been lucky to be 30cm,"

Flathead All flathead (except dusky flathead) 30 min Combined limit of 5 in total of all species (except dusky flathead) Dusky flathead (mud flathead) 40 min 75 max 5 Gee! glad we have you to give a revision on species and sizes.

You should be glad cause as you clearly stated that the old bloke didn't know so the more info that is posted for everyone the less you have to inform them directly, which you are so sick of doing.

If you were so sure did you inform him of his mistake and tell him directly that he is doing the wrong thing? I get sick of telling people, and so do many other fishos.

So you stop telling them and think the problem will sort itself out while you sit and watch them and bite your tongue?

You do know you can go into green zones, boating and diving is allowed.. Were they actually fishing? Oh...amazing...is that so? maybe drinking lattes with the rods over the side...what a joke.

Not very amazing, some people are not aware of that and think green zones are "no go zones" and I would of started my reply with "3 guys walk into a bar" if I was joking..
Try putting this in your first post, "Yesterday arvo late off Redcliffe, two boats sitting inside the green zone WITH FISHING LINES IN THE WATER"

I am 100% against taking undersize fish and fishing in the greenzones but would want to be pretty damn sure someone is doing the wrong thing before I tell THEM or contact the correct authorities.
Glad you are so dam sure ! its just others who are not sure?

As i said, I only say something when I am 100% sure, and this comment was based on the fact your original post had no info regarding what type of flattie it was or that they were fishing in the green zone, as previous poster just said some people telling him off when he was doing nothing wrong.

Try 20 boats at least in the Green Zone near Woody Pt in the past 12 mths. All kindly told they risk a fine. And they all pulled anchor and moved.

You are informing them they are doing something illegal (they may or may not of known) and they leave which gets the results you desire ...

[flatzie]

Over and out, this is getting crazy hairsplitting stuff. Read my post, it wasnt nasty, redneck stuff. Just an observation while eating my lunch...sorry I ever posted it now.
Happy Fishing
Flatzie

[nathank]

Flatzie im with you mate.. that kinda observation makes my blood boil... my grandpa used to take me fishing when i was a little kid and i can clearly remember him measuring each fish we kept and he would always tell me the importance of sticking to the rules. Now i look back it was pretty rare from someone from his generation but we have to teach our kids these very important lessons.. I went out along the sand pumping jetty last night to catch bait and the amount of people fishing and keeping undersized fish is just staggering.. this will always be like it is... the amount of people and spots that people are fishing is just impossible to police... its up to the older generation to teach the younger generation about such things to have any chance at reducing the amount that it happens.. As far as what the pro's are doing and relating it back to one measly flathead..well thats just a cop out.
Also on seeing the undersized fish on the sandpumping jetty.. no i didnt take them out of peoples bucket and measure them but when i see undersize fish... well i know one when i do.

[Knotpretty]

One old fella and one flatty is not going to deplete the worlds fish stocks. Over harvesting everything in the ocean causes that. A story told to me by a fisheries inspector pretty much sums it up. He had recently spent a night on a trawler down home to monitor ther by catch. He said over 1500 juvenile mulloway were killed in the process of harvesting prawns that night. Thats just one species multiply that by the days worked and there is the answer to why fish stocks are in some areas are low. Commercial fisherman need to earn a living (they have bills like everyone else). Non fishing people want to eat fish, recreational fisherman want to catch fish. Everyone has an impact on the fish stocks (my trips of late have had no effect on fish stocks lol). Maybe we should look at the fisherman who target the big breeding flatties and brag about their huge daily catches of the fish not the old fella with one small flatty. Just my thoughts mojo

[flatzie]

Thanks for the sensible non judgmental replies guys! I was hoping there was still a few objective souls out there!
You are dead right Baz! Im on another couple of forums, you see as much of this on them.
Cheers Flatzie

[Dignity]

There is nothing wrong with noting that some one has kept under sized fish, I notice it all the time and used to comment to people all the time but with the amount of verbal abuse I got I stopped and only comment on fish that I see actually caught and still have a chance of survival. I will often watch familys fishing at Golden Beach and it is obvious that many of them don't know that the fish they have caught are undersized as they appear to be very pleased, and so they should be as fishing is meant to be a pleasant past time even if you have to put the fish you caught back. I do though compliment the angler on a fine catch and also add that if it was a little bigger it would be legal and they could have it for dinner, This has resulted in nearly a 100% release.

Last week I was at Busselton, WA and there were a number of people fishing and their bucket held a dozen or so Bream around the 20 cm mark and I saw them catch other herring like species which were in the 15 cm range but as they didn't speak fluent english and I didn't know the minimum sizes in WA I said nothing however when leaving the jetty there were a number of anglers ready to go out and they looked like they had been doing it for a while judging by their gear. When I asked them what was the leagal size for bream in WA none of them knew, this is what worries me.

I have spent time in asia and seen how depleted their stocks are and how because they are so poor an 8cm boney bream is considered a good catch, unfortunately this can become embedded in their culture and is very difficult to change, we need to stop the same from happening here. As for pro fishing I do not have any solutions and am just as sad as a trawler passes me on the high seas while cleaning their catch to see the amount of dead undersize fish floating on the ocean. But then again we also seem to forget that a lot of our fish stock problems also stem from the fish nurseries being filled in e.g. mangroves, for tha sake of a developer making some money, this is un sustainable in the long run.

These are only my thoughts and I understand that others will have opposing views.

Cheers

[fisher28]

dignity that is a great post,good to see that the whole big picture is seen by you.awesome!!

[culbara]

did you ring fisheries and report him then only way things will stop is if you do something we are all responsible

[ssab1]

give the old bloke a go, it was a bar tail? wouldnt like a jury with some of you blokes "guilty 'cause my mate said so .Want to see taking of undersize fish? go down to the seaway and pumping jetty. Yes fisheries are aware but cant patrol 24/7.cheers Alex

[flatzie]

Saab1, there is way more judgement of me writing about that flattie, than any thing I wrote about that old bloke. I never wrote a nasty word about the poor old bloke, just made an observation.
Tired of It... was a Dusky!! Ive caught hundreds of them..he walked right past me...it was way undersize, not everyone is stupid when they look at a fish.
Culbara..
I have reported illegal fishing, but as mentioned, they are way under resourced, and it takes forever to get someone on the phone, let alone getting someone to catch people doing the wrong thing. But they do get a lot, and thats good.
Flatzie

[Beatsworkin2]

I love my grandad thanks for taking me fishing

[Mike Delisser]

The thing that sh*ts me about the pros is that for the most part the produce they get doesn't even stay with us as they are chasing the dollar.. good on them I suppose it is all business but surely Asia and other countries have their own fish, I mean we import a heap of their crap and send our prime fish over there WTF.. If the government got serious they could stop it overnight and simply have a sustainable fishing future for all but until then the seas will be raped over and over and over..

Totally agree Fat-Bouy, I heard once that we export roughly the same tonnage of prawns that we import. The issue is we export big tigers, kings ect ect, and import tiny little 2cm things that end up in fried rice.

BTW one issue I've always had is calling the wild fish caught by pro's "produce" or hearing them refered to as "primary producers". I recon these terms should only be used when refering to aquaculture.
Cheers

[rumy1]

I remember my grandfather telling me once after a not so successful crabbing trip that he would fill the large copper boiler in just one night with his catch of mud crabs. I said to him that maybe this is why we have not many crabs these days, he said nothing.

The recreational fisher is nothing, go over seas and see how they rape the seas over there, anything and everything is taken. Dolphins, marlins, sharks, whales, turtles, you name it they take it.

[lifestyle]

unless you measuresed the flatty you are only guessing it was undersize. could of been a sand flathead. So You opion if it being undersize is unjustified with no evidence.

[odes20]

Hey lifestyle . The fight is over. Bell has rung, winners/losers declared. after fight drinks and car park empty, all gone home. And now you come out swingin? weeks after?Funny Mate.


unless you measuresed the flatty you are only guessing it was undersize. could of been a sand flathead. So You opion if it being undersize is unjustified with no evidence.