4 Blade stainless results,Good or Bad?

[Squidlet]

Had my Bluewater 5.3 alloy boat reproped by Scotty before shit whent pair shaped for him and others.:'(
Have gone for a few runs whit it now and im just not sure if its right,so this is how it whent.200l fuel 2 blokesaround a 100kg each 20l of water and all the usual bullshit for a days outing.So the df 140 with Permatrim and a four blade stainless 13,19 prop results are
4000rpm-28km
5000rpm-43km
6100rpm-57km
Steve from solas chose tha prop to suit long range trip carring plenty of extra weight.
Are theis figures ok or is their room for improvement? Engine has been lifted to correct position and a foil has been placed on the old girl,the engine that is!!!
Any feed back would be great!
Cheers Chris.

[The_Tub]

gday chris

just wondering why have you got a foil on it,i had one on a motor i used to have it had a 100 on it and a 4 blade solas i personally found it went better with no foil and used less fuel aswell.

cheers mal

[Dan5]

Had my Bluewater 5.3 alloy boat reproped by Scotty before shit whent pair shaped for him and others.:'(
Have gone for a few runs whit it now and im just not sure if its right,so this is how it whent.200l fuel 2 blokesaround a 100kg each 20l of water and all the usual bullshit for a days outing.So the df 140 with foil and a four blade stainless 13,19 prop results are
4000rpm-28km
5000rpm-43km
6100rpm-57km
Steve from solas chose tha prop to suit long range trip carring plenty of extra weight.
Are theis figures ok or is their room for improvement? Engine has been lifted to correct position and a foil has been placed on the old girl,the engine that is!!!
Any feed back would be great!
Cheers Chris.



Geez did you leave the handbrake on?

[Squidlet]

gday chris

just wondering why have you got a foil on it,i had one on a motor i used to have it had a 100 on it and a 4 blade solas i personally found it went better with no foil and used less fuel aswell.

cheers mal

Mal the foil was put on just to get the boat up on the plain a little quicker when fully loaded up,but im still not sure if its a good thing or not.
Cheers chris

[Squidlet]

Geez did you leave the handbrake on?

Does feal a little lethargic yes dan is the foil? is it prop?....What the?
Cheers chris.

[honda900]

Squidlet,

Results of prop testing with a DF140, 08 model with the changed gearbox, on a yalta 55HC (6.0 LOA glass).

I tried a number of props on my boat to get it to where I want it, the following is GPS and fuel flow meter accurate. The last one in Green is what I chose in the end as best overall performance.


Speed in kilometers per hour from GPS

Suzuki 13*21 - 3Blade Speed
1000 5.5
2000 10.3
3000 15.4
4000 33.3
WOT 59
Hole shot > 5 seconds

Turning point 14*21
1000 6.9
2000 11.8
3000 16.2
4000 38.5
5000 51.4
WOT - 5700 58.2
Hole shot > 5 seconds

Solas 13*19 - 4 blade -uncupped Speed
1000 6.4
2000 11.3
3000 16.4
4000 35.3
5000 48.2
WOT-6000 60
Hole shot 2.2

Solas 13 7/8 * 21
1000 6.5
2000 11.5
3000 16.5
4000 36
5000 52
WOT 5800 60.8
Hole shot > 5 seconds

Solas 13 7/8*19- 3 blade Speed
1000 6.5
2000 10.7
3000 15.3
4000 32.2
5000 45.7
WOT -61500 60.5
Hole shot 2.2

Solas 13*21 - 4 blade Speed
1000
2000 9.4
3000 13
4000 21
WOT N/A
Hole shot N/A

Solas 14 1/8 *18 - 4 blade Speed Fuel LPH
1000 6.8 1.4
2000 10.9 5.8
3000 16.4 11.4
4000 36.3 17.4
5000 49.6 26.8
WOT-6000 63.5 40.1
Hole shot 2


Regards
Honda

[Dicktracey]

Mate I have a 5.5m glass boat with a 140 on with a 19 x 13-7/8 3 blade my top speed is 32knts-62km/hr and have never used more than 80l of fuel for a full day out at least 140km 3 guys and esky full of fish.
I would ditch the foil and recheck leg height

[honda900]

I agree with Dicktracy, on the fuel economy, we regularly do 140-180k trips using on average 70litres of fuel or less, the difference between a glassy offshore day and a hard day at work ofshore is approximately 4 liters of fuel.

Regards
Honda

[rodneyk]

Had my Bluewater 5.3 alloy boat reproped by Scotty before shit whent pair shaped for him and others.:'(
Have gone for a few runs whit it now and im just not sure if its right,so this is how it whent.200l fuel 2 blokesaround a 100kg each 20l of water and all the usual bullshit for a days outing.So the df 140 with foil and a four blade stainless 13,19 prop results are
4000rpm-28km
5000rpm-43km
6100rpm-57km
Steve from solas chose tha prop to suit long range trip carring plenty of extra weight.
Are theis figures ok or is their room for improvement? Engine has been lifted to correct position and a foil has been placed on the old girl,the engine that is!!!
Any feed back would be great!
Cheers Chris.
Hi Squidlet your probably going to dissagree but its not the motor or prop its the shape of the hull plate alloy boats are not designed for speed trials the are for there ability to be knocked around a bit . most of the newer boat builders dont put planing strakes on but not sure if thats the case with your boat . these naval architect designs ?????? are big bulky hulls that seem to be glued to the water . I own brand new suzuki 140 on 1900 bluewater half cab heavy lay up glass 180ltrs fuel all the fruit 14x21 std alloy prop getting 64klm per hour @ 6000revs ringing its neck .This post is not to bag any piticular boat but just pointing out some facts . Alloy hulls as we see them today really have a maximum speed if you need to talk please feel free to pm me cheers ROD

[LoungeLizard]

Solas 14 1/8 *18 - 4 blade Speed Fuel LPH
1000 6.8 1.4
2000 10.9 5.8
3000 16.4 11.4
4000 36.3 17.4
5000 49.6 26.8
WOT-6000 63.5 40.1
Hole shot 2


Regards
Honda

I can't seem to find this prop on the Solas website - was it custom made for you?

[Squidlet]

Hi Squidlet your probably going to dissagree but its not the motor or prop its the shape of the hull plate alloy boats are not designed for speed trials the are for there ability to be knocked around a bit . most of the newer boat builders dont put planing strakes on but not sure if thats the case with your boat . these naval architect designs ?????? are big bulky hulls that seem to be glued to the water . I own brand new suzuki 140 on 1900 bluewater half cab heavy lay up glass 180ltrs fuel all the fruit 14x21 std alloy prop getting 64klm per hour @ 6000revs ringing its neck .This post is not to bag any piticular boat but just pointing out some facts . Alloy hulls as we see them today really have a maximum speed if you need to talk please feel free to pm me cheers ROD

Cheers for the reply bud,cant disagree with ya as this is your opinon and thats what im looking for,the hull does have planning strakes will get a photo up of the engine height soon so you can see the set up,it does just feal slugish! i dont want a speed boat,the foil from what i have read can have an effect on topend but give better economy.
Cheers chris.

[Dantren]

Hey Chris.
I think I have the same hull(17 deg) with a DF115. IMO they look fast but are not compared to others. Dont have to tell you about the ride though. I did about 50hrs prior to lifting the fitting a bw foil. The foil helped heaps with holeshot, but definitely provided noticeable resistance through the water. Then we lifted the motor two holes. It's now one hole from the top. This brought the speed back up to my satisfaction(55Klm/hr wot). Still on the Suzuki prop. I haven't got any detailed numbers on rpm & speed, but it is on the cards with a view to experiment with props. Hope this helps. Dan.

[Squidlet]

Ok so here a few pic of the set up,originally it was down two holes,so it was lifted and a Permatrim attached not a foil as said before,my bad.
Any thoughts out there?
Cheers Chris.

[Dantren]

...................

[Squidlet]

Hey Chris.
I think I have the same hull(17 deg) with a DF115. IMO they look fast but are not compared to others. Dont have to tell you about the ride though. I did about 50hrs prior to lifting the fitting a bw foil. The foil helped heaps with holeshot, but definitely provided noticeable resistance through the water. Then we lifted the motor two holes. It's now one hole from the top. This brought the speed back up to my satisfaction(55Klm/hr wot). Still on the Suzuki prop. I haven't got any detailed numbers on rpm & speed, but it is on the cards with a view to experiment with props. Hope this helps. Dan.

Gday dan,did your 115 come with a 21size prop,thats what i had on originally great top end speed up around the 70km mark but with full weight on board just would not get up or reach the 6000rpm mark.Mate the hull itself handles unreal soft and dry!
Cheers Chris.

[Dantren]

Just checked the prop. It's 3x14x19
When I took delivery i asked sb about testing other props & got the old nah mate done all that & the standard one's best. Dunno if it was bulldust or not. Got me wondering now though.....

[Squidlet]

Nah it wasnt bulldust,he just didnt know! i dont think any of the boats built where ever fully tested prior to sale hand over.
Cheers chris.

[shy guys]

Mate I have a plate alloy ocean cylinder 6300 with a df 140 on it weight is 1800kg fully loaded for offshore with 3pob i have the standard prop 3 14 19 pushes the boat to wot at 6300 for 73kph cruise at 38kph at 4400 57kph at 5000

[robothefisho]

Mate I have a plate alloy ocean cylinder 6300 with a df 140 on it weight is 1800kg fully loaded for offshore with 3pob i have the standard prop 3 14 19 pushes the boat to wot at 6300 for 73kph cruise at 38kph at 4400 57kph at 5000

I am guessing that is the older ratio suzuki, 2.31 or somthing.

[robothefisho]

Yes, you can do far better than those figures.

1) Is that a genuine permatrim? I can't really tell in those photos but it doesn't look like it.
2) Can you clearly see the "permatrim" at normal trim and cruise speed. If not, keep lifting that engine!
3) I am guessing it was fitted to keep the nose down and manage some porpoising issues.
4) You may aswell go back to a standard suzuki alloy prop in a 19 compared to that pretty stainless 4 blader with these figures.
5) How much extra weight are talking? As in an all up on the water figure?
6) If all up weight on the water is around 1500kg try a solas 4 blade 13.75*21 4 blade. It will get you around 6200-6300rpm and 67 km/h.

If you want exact test figures and the boat its on PM me and i'll send you some graphs etc.

[winston]

Squidlet, I tend to agree with Rodney k. Alloy hulls are not fast hulls. I have a DF 140 suzuki on a 5.6m Stessl plate half cab and at 6100 rpn , the boat is travelling at 33 knots. The prop is a 14x19 Solas stainless. Cheers Winston.

[rodneyk]

Hi Chris i would try lifting to the last hole take the permatrim off check your transom angle it needs to be mininum of 12 degrees preferably 13 this effects amount of useable trim you can usually live with 50/ 75 percent . The motor didnt seem overly high to me from photos . From my experience the 3 blade large surface area props always were a good allrounder on most 4 strokes . These props are designed by engineers thru all different requirements remember once the engine has reached 6000 + revs there is going to only going to be marginal differance mid range performance is what you need not 40 ltrs per hr @ 6200 revs cheers Rod

[Squidlet]

Hi Chris i would try lifting to the last hole take the permatrim off check your transom angle it needs to be mininum of 12 degrees preferably 13 this effects amount of useable trim you can usually live with 50/ 75 percent . The motor didnt seem overly high to me from photos . From my experience the 3 blade large surface area props always were a good allrounder on most 4 strokes . These props are designed by engineers thru all different requirements remember once the engine has reached 6000 + revs there is going to only going to be marginal differance mid range performance is what you need not 40 ltrs per hr @ 6200 revs cheers Rod

Gday Rodney,yeah mate my happy cruising speed is around the 4500rev range boat seems to hum at that,by lifting it another hole will also cause loss of more trim being a problem or not?
Cheers chris.

[Dicktracey]

after looking at your pics i would put my left nut on your leg being too low, if your cav plate is at the top of water with that set up going on spirit level your transducers and most of the v would be out of the water mate.
i used a video camera over the back of boat at optimal trim to determine cav plate height.
dick

[Swanie1975]

"i used a video camera over the back of boat at optimal trim to determine cav plate height.
dick "

any chance you could put up the vid or a link?

cheers ryan:)

[johncar]

Yeah by the pics, I agree the leg could possibly come up another hole, but you are driving the boat and the best one to judge so it depends on whether you are getting any ventilation when the engine is trimmed out in a cruising range, and general performance but I found some props ventilate before others too.

Been going through the prop thing with my Tinnie ATM and tried 3 and 4 blades, different diameters and pitches. Running a DF250 Suzuki on a 6.6m Fisher. The guys at Solas have been very helful in helping me with this but in my case I found that the 4 blade props didn't work as well as the big 3 blade, but different boat as I have plenty of weight forward and I think the 4 bladers were giving a bit more stern lift and creating earlier cavitation when trimming out.
I think that for me it has worked out to be the larger diam and surface area style prop in a 3 blade is best. Possibly a bit to do with the gearing of the Suzuki, Every prop I ran saw the engine at full RPM but the bigger diameter seem better for mid range performance and stability.
My last boat it was a 4 blade that worked best but it was slightly bum if anything heavy and it did the trick so different boats, different props..
Not sure about all tinnies being slow though but I know some designs of boats can have a low maximum hull speed which includes a lot of the pressed rib style bottoms.
The Fisher I have seems to be very similar in performance to my old HH680 or not far behind it. My GPS tells me that the boat travels at 42kt or about 78Kmh at 6000RPM and 22kt (41kmh) at around 3800RPM which seems OK and I think there is a bit more in it yet. I also have a full hard top and plenty of stuff to catch wind. Because the engine reaches max RPM fairly easily with the current 3 x 16 x 20 I am going to try a 3 x 16 x 21.5 tomorrow, fingers crossed it will see a bit better mid range performance. If not then I will at least know what is on there is already optimum.

[Dantren]

So Chris, Sorry for the silly question. Where is the trim positioned at in the pics?

[Squidlet]

So Chris, Sorry for the silly question. Where is the trim positioned at in the pics?

Gday Dan mate the engine was fully trimmed in! get a little cavatashion when trimed out,but holds well when trimed in and turning hard to see weather it would cavitate if that helps any!
Cheers Chris.

[Squidlet]

Thanks to all who have contributed so far to the question at hand.It seams lifting the egine to its last hole and a possible change in prop,will have to talk to solas and weather or not to ditch the permatrim, i think trying the engine without will be good to see.If their are any more sugestiones out their they will be greatfully received!!!!!!
Cheers Chris.

[chris69]

Hi Squidlet ive read the whole chat so far and you oringinal said that the boat was set up for a heavy load and you happy with you cruiseing speed and thats what the suzuki gears are good for economy at cruiseing speed so if your happy with this ....why.... change to get an exta few kms hour? as others have said not all hulls are the same as the trim and set up to one boat to another is different,if someone had the same set up as your boat and the same boat and motor and the other one was a bit fast then i can see you wondering why,just the way i see it,i hope you get what your looking for,cheers chris

[robothefisho]

Some graphs of 3 different props on a 5.5m plate boat. 1500kg normally on the water. Best prop overall is the alloy 4 blade. The 3 blade Stainless was particularly doughy.8147581474

[rodneyk]

Gday Dan mate the engine was fully trimmed in! get a little cavatashion when trimed out,but holds well when trimed in and turning hard to see weather it would cavitate if that helps any!
Cheers Chris.
Hi Chris just remember you can also buy wedges for transom this will give heaps more trim when you lift motor also most boats will let go in high speed tight slalom turns as rarely will you need to do this when boating . why was the permatrim put on ??? was it bum heavy ?? I do know that some boats are enhanced by them for sure but i was led to believe it mainly helped with porpoising which once again goes back to start and finish of deadrise length in smaller boats ideally not shorter than 1.8mtrs in small plateys CHEERS ROD