Spin or Overhead for 1st reef rig

[ozynorts]

Hey all. I am looking at getting my first offshore setup. At this stage I am looking at a setup up for fishing the reef off 1770.
As the title suggests the first question is spin or o/h. I don't mind either way but some advice from those who fish out there would really help.
Next question is after deciding on one of the above which reel//rod combo to go for. Not looking at the top of the line gear as that is out of the budget.
Then of course lastly is the weight of braid, leader etc to finish it all off.
Thanks in advance
Haydn

[Daintreeboy]

Mate I am on full spin gear these days. Overheads tend to roll due to the forces hapening with the line laying on top of the rod. Some custom rod builders sprial wrap the guides to counter this force but you won't find a cheap one of those in a shop.
For a budget, get yourself a Penn Slammer 560 with 50 lb braid on an Ugly stick or better still T curve deep jig 200 spin and you are away. It will hold 300 yards of 50 pound braid which should be good enough unless you're planning to fish reel deep.
I use 60 pound Black magic supple leader to 50lb braid then a Shogun rolling swivel and 80 or better still 100 pound Black magic tough trace for the terminal paternoster rig. I use Gamkatsu Octopus 9/0 as my preferred hook and a decent assortment of dropper sinkers to suit the current.

[No Excuses]

For a starter combo ya can't go past the tried and proven tractor of the over head world the Shimmano TLD25. One of those bad boys with a 15-24kg live fibre rod and 80lb braid will bring up 99% of the fish you will be chasing offshore. I lend a similar combo to any green horns on my boat and it almost never fails in landing some decent fish for them.

[Micadogs]

I use both overhead and spin when offshore. Go for what you think is comfortable. Keep in mind that if you go overhead you will need a gimbal belt to stop the rod turning as Daintreeboy mentions.

If it was my first offshore set up, I would tend to agree with No Excuses. That would be a reasonable priced and good quality set up. (gran a cheap $10 gimbal belt to go with it)

I use 55lb braid and 60lb wind on shock leader with either a 60lb, 80lb or 100lb leader depending upon what I'm chasing and where.

Cheers Adam

[ozynorts]

thanks for the advice guys. Much appreciated.
cant wait to get out there

[odes20]

One other matter to be aware of whether you go spin or overhead, just be aware of gear ratio as well. A really slow ratio eg. 4.-1 means you will have a smooth fight, but trout will catch you out often with such a slow attack from you. On the other hand the high end ratios like 6.1-1 and upward, can make cranking feel like hard work, unless you have a top shelf reel with bearings to burn. This is especially so with spin reels in my view. So if you go spin and only want to spend mid range dollars, make sure you get a mid range ratio like 4.6-1 and up to 5.4-1.

Cheers
John

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Hi
I use a 15-24 kg Live fibre and an Okuma 15 with 50lb fins braid. Hubby has the same but with an Okuma 20. Suits us fine but i am very partial to Wilson Live Fibres and would highly recommend them.

Ronnie

[NAGG]

for my money - there is nothing quite like fighting a fish on an overhead outfit and imho - you get better bang for your buck when buying an overhead outfit. I still feel if you go a spin outfit you need to spend big

Chris

[Camhawk88]

I prefer overhead for that sort of fishing but spinning gear is great now too. I agree with NAGG that generally you need to spend more on the reel with a threadline than an overhead to get the same functionality.
As for twisting I find with a rod built smack on the back bone that it isnt an issue.
I used a TLD 20 and Daiwa 15STP for years and it was a great set up and did the job. However I have moved to a Saltiga jigging rod and Avet JX and the difference is amazing. The weight difference is a big plus after fishing all day and the cranking power is chalk and cheese even with a faster retrieve than the TLD. This is the first jigging rod I have used and I find for the up and down battles on the reef the long butt section is great for sticking under the arm and cranking away- no need for a belt. I find 50lb braid is enough- not many fast runners on the reef that will take much line so you can fish it right up to 50lb and forget the 1/3rd rule- if you drag allows it. Thinner line also enables you to reach the bottom with less weight.
Plenty of good options out there just define your budget, what you will be using it for (eg if you want to do a bit of jigging then a faster ratio will be benificial) and what your personal preference is then go shopping.

[ozynorts]

Thanks for all the help guys. I decided to head down to Agnes Bait and Tackle and have a chat. Walked out with a Shimano TLD 20 on an Ugly Stick Bluewater 15-24kg loaded up with 300yds of 50lb powerpro braid. A roll of 60lb Black magic leader, some 8/0 hooks and sinkers forthe grand total of $445. Think I got a pretty good deal.

[Daintreeboy]

Not a bad rig to start mate. You forgot the 80 or 100 pound mono trace but for your paternosters. Any excuse for another trip to the tackle shop! ::)

[ozynorts]

yep any excuse will do.

[NAGG]

Thanks for all the help guys. I decided to head down to Agnes Bait and Tackle and have a chat. Walked out with a Shimano TLD 20 on an Ugly Stick Bluewater 15-24kg loaded up with 300yds of 50lb powerpro braid. A roll of 60lb Black magic leader, some 8/0 hooks and sinkers forthe grand total of $445. Think I got a pretty good deal.

a good robust outfit ......... nice ! - should last and serve you well.

Chris

[odes20]

Hey Mate , what ratio is your Avet JX ?
I have an MXL which is a cracker of a reel, I have bought and sold a lot of Avets from a supplier in US who has become a friend. Ive sold heaps to friends and also on Ebay Au. They are not that well known here yet.

Cheers

John


I prefer overhead for that sort of fishing but spinning gear is great now too. I agree with NAGG that generally you need to spend more on the reel with a threadline than an overhead to get the same functionality.
As for twisting I find with a rod built smack on the back bone that it isnt an issue.
I used a TLD 20 and Daiwa 15STP for years and it was a great set up and did the job. However I have moved to a Saltiga jigging rod and Avet JX and the difference is amazing. The weight difference is a big plus after fishing all day and the cranking power is chalk and cheese even with a faster retrieve than the TLD. This is the first jigging rod I have used and I find for the up and down battles on the reef the long butt section is great for sticking under the arm and cranking away- no need for a belt. I find 50lb braid is enough- not many fast runners on the reef that will take much line so you can fish it right up to 50lb and forget the 1/3rd rule- if you drag allows it. Thinner line also enables you to reach the bottom with less weight.
Plenty of good options out there just define your budget, what you will be using it for (eg if you want to do a bit of jigging then a faster ratio will be benificial) and what your personal preference is then go shopping.

[Daintreeboy]

Hey Odes how would you compare one with say a Daiwa Saltist Hyper speed 30 (the red one). What avet is close to that reel size etc. and how would it compare quality wise. I've heard good things about Avets and my brother is on the lookout for a small OH.

[outta line]

perfect 1st combo mate..........it will b easer to get use to finding bottom with an overhead as well imo. hold your rod vertical while dropping line to bottom and wait till you get slack line (belly in line ) wind up 5 turns or so and your on....get a spin combo when you get the hang of it...spin combos are lighter to fish with when you have a rod in your hand all day.. more fun aswell as you can fish lighter line.... you probly dont need me to tell you this as you probly all ready know ...your overhead combo can be used for trolling too just add about 20m or so of mono for stretch......cheers mick

[NAGG]

The other advantage of an overhead is that they are great for fishing floaters ....... just tuck the butt under your arm (ratchet on & thumb on the spool) & strip away keeping pace with the current - I love this technique .

Chris

[finga]

Mate I am on full spin gear these days. Overheads tend to roll due to the forces hapening with the line laying on top of the rod. Some custom rod builders sprial wrap the guides to counter this force but you won't find a cheap one of those in a shop..
If you find the rod rolling over all the time under load just take it to any good rodbuilder and they'll convert it to a spiral.
Once you've tried a spiral you won't ever go back.

A good outfit you got yourself Hayden. It should serve you well for many a year if looked after.

[Spot82]

Why does everyone have the drama of the rod rolling over in your hand? Obviously the reels you are using are far to wide... A tyrnos 12 or 16, torsa 16 or 20 or even a tld 20 shouldn't roll on the rod because they are not a wide reel, either that or I hold my rod differently to everyone else because I have only had this problem when you are using a large reel, which when you are fishing anything up to 150m is not required, all of the above will hold 300m of 60lb or 80lb braid. This could also be aided by the rods I use as well which are typically GLoomis (which can be purchased from the US for the same price as a Livefibre and are 10 times a better rod) I have a Canyon HS15 to test and it holds 350m of 50lb with heaps of room to spare and is only the size of a calcutta 400.

Its amazing how small overheads are becoming and I think a lot of people fall into the trap of the past where big reels where better. Shimano, Daiwa, Avet, Accurate and Canyon to name a few all offer small sized overheads which will tackle nearly any reef species, matched to a decent graphite rod they are extremely light and easy to use. For me I far prefer to use an overhead for the majority of offshore fishing, however I always go to spin gear for some situations. Everyone has different styles and techniques which suit different gear.

As others have mentioned use 80lb or 100lb for your actual rig to your hooks, you can go a bit lighter if you use flurocarbon as it is a much harder material and more resistent to rubbing through. Experiment using both running ball rigs and paternoster rigs and always use only enough lead to keep bottom, the lighter you can fish the better.

[finga]

Why does everyone have the drama of the rod rolling over in your hand? Obviously the reels you are using are far to wide....
Or people may have a problem with their hands.

[Camhawk88]

Hey Mate , what ratio is your Avet JX ?
I have an MXL which is a cracker of a reel, I have bought and sold a lot of Avets from a supplier in US who has become a friend. Ive sold heaps to friends and also on Ebay Au. They are not that well known here yet.

Cheers

John
Hi John,

I went with a 4.6:1 as opposed to the 6.1:1. Main reason is beter cranking power but it is still plenty fast enough for jigging as the spool is quite tall/deep. Forget retrieve per crank but is somewhere a bit over a meter i think.

Daintree I did look at the saltists but reckon the avets sh1t on them- particularly value for $. Full aircraft grade aliminium construction, higher drag pressure and feels much better/smoother. The drag is also bigger and you can crank it higher without binding up which I found was an issue with the saltist. Just an opinion though as I havent used a saltist outside the tackle shop. Id say the MX would be of similar size- maybe the SX (smaller). The JX is the bigger of the bunch which is a narrow spool version of the LX. You can also get the cast control versions for a bit more (they are all good casting reels) and if you want to splash out you can get the Raptor versions which have a double drag- 1 each side of the spool and of course higher settings.

Look into them mate if considering something in that size. I got mine delivered from the states spooled with 300m of 50lb Cordell braid and backing for a smidge over $300AU. Raptor version you would be looking at around $550.
Cheers,

[mikeyh]

I'm with Camhawk......the quality of the Avet's leave the (chinese) japanese for dead. Very similar to Accurates but without the pricetags. I have got a SX magcast and a JX magcast in 6:1. SX looks tiny but built like a tank..smaller than a ABU 6000. Pricewise also cant compare...IMHO the best value high quality overheads for the money...cheers Mike

[odes20]

I would say the Avet MXL would be slightly smaller, but its a beast of a reel, and a JX would be a bit larger, about the size of a TLD 20. Either model has fast ratios available. Go to avet.com and have look and then if you want some help getting one at the right price from USA just PM me and I can at least assist you or get it for you. I live in cairns.

Cheers
John


Hey Odes how would you compare one with say a Daiwa Saltist Hyper speed 30 (the red one). What avet is close to that reel size etc. and how would it compare quality wise. I've heard good things about Avets and my brother is on the lookout for a small OH.

[reggy]

[QUOTE=mikeyh;1388088]I'm with Camhawk......the quality of the Avet's leave the (chinese) japanese for dead.

maybe the Chinese

[reggy]

[QUOTE=Camhawk88;1388022] the Raptor versions which have a double drag- 1 each side of the spool

They have a double disc drag, but it is all in the right sideplate, due to Accurate`s patent.
Accurate and Jigging Master have a disc on both sides.

[Steve B]

[QUOTE=mikeyh;1388088]I'm with Camhawk......the quality of the Avet's leave the (chinese) japanese for dead.

maybe the Chinese


Agree Reggy,

BIG BIG BIG difference between Chinese and Japanese reels

Cheers Steve

[mikeyh]

What I meant by chinese japanese is japanese companies that make their reels in china. A good case in point is when one of my local tackle shops showed me the comparison between the japanese made saltiga star drag overheads and the chinese made saltiga lever drags.....the lever reels look nice but no contest in terms of feel and build quality

[reggy]

What I meant by chinese japanese is japanese companies that make their reels in china. A good case in point is when one of my local tackle shops showed me the comparison between the japanese made saltiga star drag overheads and the chinese made saltiga lever drags.....the lever reels look nice but no contest in terms of feel and build quality
WOW, I did not know DAIWA was making Saltigas in China. Are you sure they are not Saltists?

[mikeyh]

No not saltist...saltiga ld 2010......thats what they told me...and no reason to disbelieve. All the fin nors are chinese now....penn..a long long list these days

[odes20]

I remember when Jap cars first came on the market in Australia , they were poorly made and took quite a while to improve. Now they make a lot of the best vehichles we use. I wonder whether Chinese stuff will turn that corner one day as well? For me at the moment the only thing good about most stuff from there is the price.

John

[reggy]

I know PENN have a threshold of $299 retail for reels made in China. Anything over that is made in USA.Although I did buy a Baja Special
113hn that retailed for under $299 and it was made in USA.
The best made reels I have are my Jiigging Masters which are made in Taiwan, and yet the bearings in them are made in Germany.

[diabolical]

I think the threshold is actually $249 rrp. Just bought the chinese made Penn Fathom 25N.

I think the design plays a far bigger part than the country of origin.

[Brent_P]

No not saltist...saltiga ld 2010......thats what they told me...and no reason to disbelieve. All the fin nors are chinese now....penn..a long long list these days

Saltist and Saltiga lever drag reels are made in Korea. I own a single speed Saltiga SA-LD20HS. Saltist star drag reels are made in Korea, too. "Made in Korea" is stamped on the reel foot.

[mikeyh]

Thanks Brent, Looks like someone in a tackle shop didnt know what they were talking about.........are the saltiga starts made in Japan?

[Brent_P]

Yes, as far as I know, the Saltiga star drags are still made in Japan. I don't own one, but I have read that they feel a lot more "refined" than the Saltiga lever drags. My Saltiga lever drag is not as smooth-winding as my Talica 12, but they are very rugged, reliable reels (at least my one has been).

[reggy]

I think the threshold is actually $249 rrp. Just bought the chinese made Penn Fathom 25N.

I think the design plays a far bigger part than the country of origin.
The design stays the same, but the quality of materials vary.

[Si]

I love my Talica 16. Made in Japan quality if you get off on that. Big smooth drag a and small in profile.

Cheers