Bluewater Alloy Boats

[Tim_N]

I have been having dramas with my little Fisher as you may see on the boards here, and put a few dollars down to maybe get a little Bluewater.
Any feedback on the smaller Bluewaters around this size would be appreciated.
Looking at a 460/470 that Scott from Bluewater reckons will be a new model, something that will take my 60 hp 4 stroke and trailer, so hull only.
Still may fix the Fisher also, great boat.
If I can get the Fisher fixed, I don't have to go ahead with the Bluewater, very kind of them.
Tim

[artifical]

Have decided not to buy boat atm.

[Tim_N]

Good one Arty, don't know if I will go ahead at this stage. Will see if I can keep the Fisher floating if at all possible, otherwise I'm left with a rebuild. The new ones look the goods on paper.
Tim

[Reefmaster]

Tim I would be checking to see what Bluewater Alloy Boats business status is right now.

Regards
Greg

[Rodpal]

Hey Tim N

bluewater boats have a great name up this way and theres another good operator down your way call brendale performance plate boats, may only be small business but he's building some guns atm

whichever way man, hope your back on the water soon 8-);)

all the best
Rod

[Tim_N]

Thanks Rod.
Tim

[Captain Seaweed]

I would call Sam at Performance Plate Boats

[Dantren]

Tim I would be checking to see what Bluewater Alloy Boats business status is right now.

Regards
Greg

This is good advice Greg, but do you have any specific reason to doubt their future?
Not looking for a tangent here Tim. There are several great ally boat builders in town, as you know.
Cheers
Dan.

[Tim_N]

Does someone know something I don't?
Tim

[Squidlet]

Tim you have nothing to worry about when doing buisness with scotty!! Have had a boat built from not so long ago with no dramas,comments like the above is how shit starts!!>:(! An example of how dedicated to his boats scotty is,he travelled up to darwin to lift the engine up and reprop the old girl for us,could of paid someone else to do it but no took it upon himself to come up,now thats what i call backing up ya product!!
Highly reccomend Bluewater Plate Alloy Boats.8-)
Cheers Chris.

[Dantren]

I completely agree with you Chris. Scotty stands behind his product. So much $hit gets thrown around on here with no evidence. It does nothing but undermine confidence in the industry. If Greg has anything relevant for Tim's situation he'd best elaborate on his comment or say nothing.
Chris, myself & others have had nothing but positive dealings with Bluewater.....
All you can do is go with your gut Tim. How much do you think the hull it is worth as is?
Dan.

[Reefmaster]

Go easy lads. I was not bagging bluewater. As a matter of fact I have pushed a lot of business their way and think they build a great boat. From what I have been told Scott was very good to deal with.

All I suggested was to check that business at bluewater is as per usual. Better to give Scott that courtesy at this point and I will leave it at that.

Greg

[johncar]

I Think no matter who you are buying from where you may be paying up front for anything being built, it is always sensible to see how things are looking and try and establish ownership of the materials and boat at all stages of construction.

[spaniard]

Tim and others,
first off, I can 100% confirm that bluewater is now out of business. Over the past week the owners of boats that were in production stages have been picked up by there owners.
Second, I also have regarded these boats as top quality over many years and reffered people to scotty many times. It is unfortunate that this has happened.

With boats costing so much these days it is always wise to check on the credibillity of a business, it is a shame that people go on the attack without knowing facts just because someone gives another person genuine advice.

[Reefmaster]

Tim and others,
first off, I can 100% confirm that bluewater is now out of business. Over the past week the owners of boats that were in production stages have been picked up by there owners.
Second, I also have regarded these boats as top quality over many years and reffered people to scotty many times. It is unfortunate that this has happened.

With boats costing so much these days it is always wise to check on the credibillity of a business, it is a shame that people go on the attack without knowing facts just because someone gives another person genuine advice.

Thanks for commenting spaniard.

Guys I would have never mentioned anything unless I knew it was a fact. Since I was not directly invloved with Bluewater I wanted to be careful with what I said and was just offering some friendly advice to avoid any problems for Ausfishes.

It's a real shame this has happened to another business in the industry. I feel for those who are directly affected.

Greg.

[Tim_N]

What????????

[Tim_N]

Yes, the doors have been shut and the phone disconnected, however,
I will give Scott the benefit of any doubt.
I have known him for many years.
In fact, he was the working man at Fisher when they were at Wynnum, almost 100 years ago, and he welded up my Fisher.
He probably just needs the dust to settle, and like any other of the "closure stories" we read on here, I'm sure there will be plenty of sides to this one, most of them incorrect.
He won't let me down, he's a good bloke.
Tim

[Brittany]

Bluewater Alloy has gone broke. We are one of the very unlucky people who purchased a Bluewater Alloy boat back in 2011, were lied to over and over and over, and have now been royally screwed over by them. Our boat is not finished and still has a lot of work to be done. Some people are less fortunate and have lost everything.


I have been having dramas with my little Fisher as you may see on the boards here, and put a few dollars down to maybe get a little Bluewater.
Any feedback on the smaller Bluewaters around this size would be appreciated.
Looking at a 460/470 that Scott from Bluewater reckons will be a new model, something that will take my 60 hp 4 stroke and trailer, so hull only.
Still may fix the Fisher also, great boat.
If I can get the Fisher fixed, I don't have to go ahead with the Bluewater, very kind of them.
Tim

[shane450]

Did you have a deposit down Tim ?

[Tim_N]

Yeah I had money down. From the PM's that I'm getting, I was more fortunate than others.
I still think that I will get it back though, Scotty said so.
Tim

[shane450]

Bugger , Bluewater were a top looking boat too .

[Brittany]

Good luck with that. If you get it back, so should we all.

[Dantren]

I am shocked. Don't know what to say, except Greg was on the right track & looking out for a fellow Ausfisher. Humble pie being eaten now.
Tim, I'm very surprised Scott took your deposit prior to closing the doors, but I guess others have done it before & will into the future.
Still shocked......

[Stuart]

Well if some have had there, money paid back to them and some not then that’s a preferential payment.
If this company goes into administration or whatever then those paid can have the money taken back and divided up amongst those owed.
This pisses me off to no end, people worked dam hard t buy there boats and then the business folds and more often than not they loose there money and there boat.
I would be going straight to a solicitor. Screw how others think this company and its owner s such a terrific guy, if he has taken your money then screw back.
This is exactly why I don’t pay deposits or up front payments for anything. This industry is in its death throws, it wont be long before we will be purchasing direct from the importer/Australian agents.

[oldie]

So your saying Bluewater boats were not the direct manufacturer? Buying a boat from them was buying direct from the builder, cant get much more direct than that eh? and they gooone

[Squidlet]

Tim and others,
first off, I can 100% confirm that bluewater is now out of business. Over the past week the owners of boats that were in production stages have been picked up by there owners.
Second, I also have regarded these boats as top quality over many years and reffered people to scotty many times. It is unfortunate that this has happened.

With boats costing so much these days it is always wise to check on the credibillity of a business, it is a shame that people go on the attack without knowing facts just because someone gives another person genuine advice.


May i ask how you no such info? Is this an absolute fact?
Cheers Chris.

[White Pointer]

G'day,

Some of you know who I am but this is not an advertisement. This is advice to save you some time and money.

The "Company" may not be registered as a Company under the Companies Act. It may be a sole trader trading as Blue Water. The only way to find out is to search the ASIC website and then pay for searches through businesses linked to the ASIC website. These are not expensive and will show you who or what you are dealing with.

Use AUSFISH to meet up with your fellows. Use PM to keep your contacts on the quiet until you have everyones email address to talk outside of Ausfish.

These may include people who have paid money as deposits or progress payments, employees owed wages and whose superannuation liabilities are not paid, creditors who are owed money on goods supplied and lastly but firstly the ATO.

Collectively you will have to take legal action to have the Company or the individual brought to account. You are all victims in this and some will stand ahead of others if there is anything to gain, but it must be done and your costs will be much less if you act together.

I wish you well.

White Pointer

[spaniard]

May i ask how you no such info? Is this an absolute fact?
Cheers Chris.
Chris,
I am aware that this is a bit of a shock for people, and it really is an extremely unfortunate turn of of events. Knowing that this was a very recent post I thought it was a good idea to let everyone know what was happenning, which I suppose would have happened eventually and it would have been easier if I was not the bearer of bad news.
I do know people involved on both sides and that is all I can say on the matter. There has been a post already by one of there customers so maybe they can give you and others some further imformation.

[Jarrah Jack]

What a shame, another one down. Noble must be close as well the way they are uncontactable. Anyone putting money down on a plate boat in particular are gambling with fate it seems.

There has been mention or deposits going into trust accounts for a while on these pages as its the only way to safeguard the investment which is what it is in the end. With no security.

I hope builders like Origin can ride this downturn out and we have a viable industry in the long term.

From what I understand from these pages Scott had a lot of business with boats underway and boats to start but still went down. Its not as if he didn't have any work so other things have caught up with him. Australia is a very expensive place to do business.

[fin101]

How is it that so many of these businesses go broke???? Is it bad management, too expensive to buy materials, surely you must be able to cost things like boats appropriately. I guess renting workshops etc must be exy , especially if you don't own and have to rent, but why so many????? Anyone have more ideas????

[timddo]

How is it that so many of these businesses go broke???? Is it bad management, too expensive to buy materials, surely you must be able to cost things like boats appropriately. I guess renting workshops etc must be exy , especially if you don't own and have to rent, but why so many????? Anyone have more ideas????

Coz that can't bloody manage their cash flow. I just got paid 20,000, let's buy a car instead of paying bills.

[fisho8]

It is a shame to see this happen but when you do not work on a high turnover week to week this can happen. It is not like you could turn a 5-7mtr plate boat over in a week I guess that is why a business like this would ask for periodic payments to keep afloat these are a very nice boat I looked at the one for sale in the classified's section up at the scarbrough boatramp when the bloke had it up there with a for sale sign on it. Very well built boat that is for sure. They won't be the first and they won't be the last the Marine Industry is not in the best shape at the moment. This curent climate will definatly put alot of these businesses to the test. Sort of makes me want to sell mine and go to one of these guys support their business by buying a boat off them.

[PB]

Sorry to hear the bad news, I don't know the bluewater team but from what I heard they had a good product it's a shame to see another aussie boat builder go under. I hope all the guys with deposits & boats not finished are fully compensated.

Regards Pelagic Boats

[mull dog]

Coz that can't bloody manage their cash flow. I just got paid 20,000, let's buy a car instead of paying bills.

You are spot on mate. There was a camper trailer manufacturer that went belly up leaving many in the dark, and a month previously, was boasting on a forum of a 3 story house boat he was having built for him! Some of them could not manage their a$$holes for a $hit.

[Rod_Bender]

I had my BW half cabin built in 2008. I found Scott great to deal with even up until today. I haven't spoken to him for over a month, however, i always found him upfront, honest and willing to help out. Coming from Townsville, i was concerned about placing down a large deposit to an unknown business, no previous dealings and not knowing Scott previous to 2008. 4 years on i found the after sales service great. Not that i have ever needed any repair work completed, just little extra made were never a problem.

This was only brought to my attention yesterday as a customer whom paid a deposit rang me yesterday after seeing my name and number on his site because i'm selling my BW on his 2nd hand page. I had no clue this happened. His story of putting down a large deposit only 2 weeks before the doors were closed is hard enough for me to hear, let alone for him to personally accept!

My intention was to offload the larger half cabin, while motor and boat were under "warranty" and get Scott to build a smaller CC for me. I felt sick in the guts at hearing this guy's voice on the phone and said i would quickly ring scott's mobile and report back anything positive i could to rid his concerns. I too got his disconnected message on his mobile. I do know from chats with Scotty that he did have 2-3 boats half built when the owners pulled out and then got their lawters onto him to seek their deposits back. Hearing stories like this makes me wonder how anyone is in business when customers do things like this...who is suppose to wear that cost? Custom built boats and half way through you pull out????WTF and now Scott has gone under for whatever reasons they are....its obvious such actions by his customers went a small, medium or large way to causing the closure. I do feel sorry for people whom have lost their hard earnt $$$$

Russ

[Tim_N]

Russ,
No disrespect to you, and you may know more than most on this subject, but I don't think it is the customers fault.
There are many and varied factors why things like this happen.
I'm glad the lawyers have been involved so the people who backed out on contracts, as you suggest, or perhaps the finance companies who promised so much but delivered so little, or whoever, can be held accountantable, and the people who lost out, including Scott and all his employees or debtors, can get some sort of a positive outcome.
Tim

[Stuart]

Yet another "Its the customers fault". What a crock of sh!t. If one or several customers can bring down a business is beyond me, maybe they where on the edge of closing anyway. Its a shame, I liked there boats very much. Im sure there will be recourse on Scotts side if the customer has broken the contract. I hope it all ends well for all concerned.

[dayoo]

Anyone wanting to get a custom plate boat built OR wanting a partly completed one finished should contact Sam at Performance Plate Boats, Brendale.
He has no large overheads, accepts progress payments and builds very sturdy and stylish plate boats.

Cheers
Barry

[Dantren]

Hey Tim.

How many hulls were in the shed when you were there?
Was it still just Scott & Ralph on the tools?

Cheers
Dan.

[Squidlet]

Sorry to hear the bad news, I don't know the bluewater team but from what I heard they had a good product it's a shame to see another aussie boat builder go under. I hope all the guys with deposits & boats not finished are fully compensated.

Regards Pelagic Boats

Nice way to get advertising out their on someones demise,"Sorry"......not!

[Jarrah Jack]

Nice way to get advertising out their on someones demise,"Sorry"......not!

He's down in outback Vic Squidlet and a good bloke. I don't think he's after cheap advertising on here. Hope you're getting amongst the barra, I'll be there soon.

[TREVELLY]

This thread is going to make the Springwood Marine thread look like a pimple and sadly it will throw a shadow over the rest of the boat building industry.

Yes Dayoo - Sams team are solid and will be there to finish some for sure - unfortunately the boat owners would have already spent the money expecting BAB to complete - I only hope they are not hurting too much and that they do trust Performance Plate Boats to do the right thing - difficult times.

Some boats won't see their rightful owners - compliments of the sharks and vultures.

When a company goes bust it does so with big debts (rent, banks, tax, suppliers, painters, sub-contractors, wages) and there isn't a big pool of money to pay those that have just paid for their boat and received nothing.

Dreams shattered and people's life savings lost.

Here I am peeved I have a faulty boat to fix - but at least I have something to fix.

[Rod_Bender]

I didn't say it was entirely the customers fault. I said it would have gone a small, medium or large way towards his doors being closed. I didn't claim to have all the answers. But i could only imagine building however many boats that customers withdrew their interest would impact on any small business. I say again, i feel sorry for the bloke whom personally rang me yesterday who only 2 weeks ago placed a large deposit down, to now have nothing at all! Everyone of us works hard for our money and hopefully all parties get their money back sooner rather then later.

[WalrusLike]

I doubt there will be many getting money back.... As said above, when a business goes bust it's because the debts are big.

If there was spare money around they would have used it to keep the business afloat. The value of a busted business is often two fifths of bugger all.

It is very sad that it's happened and people should keep in mind that the business probably thought they could trade out of trouble right up to the very end.

You wonder how they can take your money when they know they're in trouble, but they often think they will survive the rough patch. Every business goes through rough spots and they can't afford to quit just because the wolf is at the door. The one thing they do know for sure at that point, is if they say 'no thanks mate we are looking shaky' they definitely will go under.

I hope I am wrong and it all comes good.

[goat boy]

Hearing stories like this makes me wonder how anyone is in business when customers do things like this...who is suppose to wear that cost? Custom built boats and half way through you pull out????WTF
Russ
Kind of like a builder taking deposits or payment when he/she knows they're going under and the customer won't get squat. WTF indeed...
I feel for anyone tied up with losing out on this

[Sheik]

I didn't say it was entirely the customers fault. I said it would have gone a small, medium or large way towards his doors being closed. I didn't claim to have all the answers. But i could only imagine building however many boats that customers withdrew their interest would impact on any small business. I say again, i feel sorry for the bloke whom personally rang me yesterday who only 2 weeks ago placed a large deposit down, to now have nothing at all! Everyone of us works hard for our money and hopefully all parties get their money back sooner rather then later.
I agree Rod... there is a fine line in a small business between building a boat for a profit and a loss. BY its nature a small business sinks or swims on havnig enough cash to continue to build more boats. If issues occur to affect that cash flow, there is great pressure placed on the business. It may not be related to the business ability of the business owner. Sometimes it's just bad luck. It's really sad to see this happening around the place and I hope everyone gets out of it OK. I know that's wishful thinking but go easy on each other. It's a sh1t thing to happen.

[Tim_N]

Dan,
There was just Ralf and Scott on the floor and a part time office lady.
The floor had a (approx) 8 m sterndrive rig, another 6 m (approx) which had the hull pulled together and the floor down, a very nearly completed 5 odd m rig up the front, and another hull which was also about 6 m which was at the stage of a canoe. There may have been another one but the last time I was in there was over a month ago.
Out the front of the shed was a 6 or 6.2 m outfit that looked about 90% done but the original owner somehow managed to pull out of the contract. Not too sure on the ins and outs of contracts, but it sure looked like a really nice boat.
There was more than likely a rig or 2 at say the painters or upholstrers, don't know.
Everyone seemed busy. Looked to me like they were doing okay in a tough time. Scott seemed positive. like he always does, and big Ralf had his head down and his bum up, welding away, like he always does.
Tim

[the maloo]

>:(
I had my BW half cabin built in 2008. I found Scott great to deal with even up until today. I haven't spoken to him for over a month, however, i always found him upfront, honest and willing to help out. Coming from Townsville, i was concerned about placing down a large deposit to an unknown business, no previous dealings and not knowing Scott previous to 2008. 4 years on i found the after sales service great. Not that i have ever needed any repair work completed, just little extra made were never a problem.

This was only brought to my attention yesterday as a customer whom paid a deposit rang me yesterday after seeing my name and number on his site because i'm selling my BW on his 2nd hand page. I had no clue this happened. His story of putting down a large deposit only 2 weeks before the doors were closed is hard enough for me to hear, let alone for him to personally accept!

My intention was to offload the larger half cabin, while motor and boat were under "warranty" and get Scott to build a smaller CC for me. I felt sick in the guts at hearing this guy's voice on the phone and said i would quickly ring scott's mobile and report back anything positive i could to rid his concerns. I too got his disconnected message on his mobile. I do know from chats with Scotty that he did have 2-3 boats half built when the owners pulled out and then got their lawters onto him to seek their deposits back. Hearing stories like this makes me wonder how anyone is in business when customers do things like this...who is suppose to wear that cost? Custom built boats and half way through you pull out????WTF and now Scott has gone under for whatever reasons they are....its obvious such actions by his customers went a small, medium or large way to causing the closure. I do feel sorry for people whom have lost their hard earnt $$$$

Russ

I am 1 of those waiting for a boat that never exsisted along wth many others. So whatever stories Scotty has told are absolute rubbish. He has lied, cheated and ripped people off. He quoted time frames to some people who are still waiting 12 months into the built. I paid a deposit, progressive payments on a hull, cabin and floor, paid for a trailer and the whole time was consistanly being shown some one elses boat. I have proof of all this. There are several others in the some situation and thats a fact. Nice guy that Scott is............... WTF NOT! He has now gone underground instead of facing the music. Lots of poeple are looking for him.

[Brittany]

I also experienced lies from Scott. We were sent photographs and told the photos were from months previous and that the boat was far more ahead than that, but the properties on the photograph file showed that the picture was only taken on the day it was sent to us. We placed our order in September 2011 and told it would be a 14 week turnaround. When we pulled our boat out, Scott was no where to be found, not answering calls and the land lord was locking the gates because of tens of thousands of dollars of rent in arrears. If we had not have pulled it out, we would have nothing.

We are one of the lucky ones because we have something of a boat that needs to be finished. It will cost us a fortune, but it seems to be the only option we've got because no one will buy the boat as is, or if they do, for a pittance of the total cost of the boat that we have paid.

[Si]

I also experienced lies from Scott. We were sent photographs and told the photos were from months previous and that the boat was far more ahead than that, but the properties on the photograph file showed that the picture was only taken on the day it was sent to us. We placed our order in September 2011 and told it would be a 14 week turnaround. When we pulled our boat out, Scott was no where to be found, not answering calls and the land lord was locking the gates because of tens of thousands of dollars of rent in arrears. If we had not have pulled it out, we would have nothing.

We are one of the lucky ones because we have something of a boat that needs to be finished. It will cost us a fortune, but it seems to be the only option we've got because no one will buy the boat as is, or if they do, for a pittance of the total cost of the boat that we have paid.

sorry to hear. i hope you somehow get what you have paid for. good luck.

[fishing111]

Feel for you. Maybe you should post up the builders photos and comments about build
progress for all to see?



I also experienced lies from Scott. We were sent photographs and told the photos were from months previous and that the boat was far more ahead than that, but the properties on the photograph file showed that the picture was only taken on the day it was sent to us. We placed our order in September 2011 and told it would be a 14 week turnaround. When we pulled our boat out, Scott was no where to be found, not answering calls and the land lord was locking the gates because of tens of thousands of dollars of rent in arrears. If we had not have pulled it out, we would have nothing.

We are one of the lucky ones because we have something of a boat that needs to be finished. It will cost us a fortune, but it seems to be the only option we've got because no one will buy the boat as is, or if they do, for a pittance of the total cost of the boat that we have paid.

[Tim_N]

Hang on, hang on,
This thread was about feed back from owners, if any, of small Bluewaters, because I was thinking very seriously about getting one if my little Fisher could not be fixed, not to crucify anyone.
If you want to have a thread regarding what has happened, start another one.
By the looks of it, the original question has been totally forgotten.
Tim

[IcyDuck]

It's really quite sad to hear what has happened. I feel sorry for those who have lost their "hard earned". Normally there are no winners in this situation but I hope those who have lost get something back.

Unfortunately, a good tradesman does not necessarily make a good businessman. This is just a general comment as I have had no dealings with Bluewater Alloy Boats and have no knowledge of their business. However, from all reports they produced a good product.

All the best for those affected.

Phil

[thelump]

Hang on, hang on,
This thread was about feed back from owners, if any, of small Bluewaters, because I was thinking very seriously about getting one if my little Fisher could not be fixed, not to crucify anyone.
If you want to have a thread regarding what has happened, start another one.
By the looks of it, the original question has been totally forgotten.
Tim

Tim the original question is now irrelevant. The feedback seems to be coming from people who thought they were going to be owners but have been stiffed by the company. No chance of getting one built now mate.

[Tim_N]

Nah, no chance Lump.
Here's hoping Col can fix my old beast, that's the best case scenario at this stage.
If not, I'm broke and boatless.
Sucks.
Tim

[thelump]

Best Of luck mate. Hope you can get the old beast going again.

[Stuart]

I would be seeking some coin from your mate that sunk your boat, seems fair realy.

[Dantren]

Hang on, hang on,
This thread was about feed back from owners, if any, of small Bluewaters, because I was thinking very seriously about getting one if my little Fisher could not be fixed, not to crucify anyone.
If you want to have a thread regarding what has happened, start another one.
By the looks of it, the original question has been totally forgotten.
Tim

Mate you're not doing yourself any favours complaining about thread ettiquete when the guys responding to your thread are far worse off than you due to the business name on the thread title.
Your original question has been answered - Bluewater won't be repairing your boat & won't be building any 4x4 lookalikes. Sorry to hear about your mate sinking the fisher. As Stuart said, tell your mate "You break it you buy it" If you have Col repair it to your satisfaciton, send your mate the repairers report the bill attached.

[Stuart]

If you want your stuff to stay in top condition, never..repeat never lend them to your mates. Not a boat I know, but I let my mate use my brand new compressor, new HVLP spray gun. guess what, they both came back stuffed. Through the lot in the trailer and took it to the dump. Never offered to replace anything, just laughed... ######. Safe to say this clown is no longer a mate. Lent my other mate a brand new shimano reel, came back stuffed. I would be giving your mate the list of work needed to repair the damage he caused.

[PinHead]

Stu..can I borrow some rods and reels please. That one you had at the last RBW looked pretty good..that one will do..hehe

[Tailortaker]

Hey Tim I hope that your fisher can be repaired, I've heard about and seen photos of the fish landed on that boat so hope all works out mate.
Cheers, grant

[Tim_N]

Thanks Grant. Back out to get into a few tomorrow in a mates 6.2 Kevlacat. Noice....
Tim

[Tim_N]

Dan,
I'm not too sure what you're on about, but this thread isn't about people bagging Scott, or Bluewater, or giving their opinion on why this has happened, or the reasons why companies go belly up, or how they have been hard done by, or whatever. It was about feedback on small Bluewaters, which, also obviously, don't exist, and will never happen.
I may not have lost as much as some, but the amount I have lost, to me is considerable, and I'm not bitching about it like you seem to make out.
I know you're a Bluewater owner, and a happy one obviously, but my reason for this thread is not to get into what I have just mentioned.
I have kept the negative personal stuff here out of it, in fact have said the whole way that Scott is a good bloke, so for you to be telling me about not doing myself any favours, you too should keep the personal stuff out of it, and respect everyones feelings on this.
Tim

[fishing111]

Not meaning to have a go, or step on anybody's toes, but just because someone starts a thread doesn't give the thread starter vetoing rights on who can and can't post, and what they can say. Threads often go off in different directions for all sorts of reasons, some valid, as this one seems to be, and sometimes not so valid. If people don't like it they have the option to put people on there ignore list.

[Dantren]

Hey Tim, I may be a bw owner, but I'm very embarrassed with the alleged activity of bw.
I've rated a product, but the business has obviously weakened. How is one to know this?
Nothing personal against you here, good on you for holding back. If I was in your shoes I'd be filthy & looking hard out for Scotty the good bloke.
I do respect everyone's feelings, but I wear mine on my sleeve. You must be strong to keep personal feelings out of this.
I would be F$cking pissed. Let me guess - he banked the cheque same day. Sorry getting personal again......

Mate I'm not going to start another bw thread. The guys seem to be covering the crucial points already so why duplicate?
If you don't want bw stories, make the thread title more relative to your fisher.

I'm interested to hear the developments of your fisher & hope it works out in your favour.

Respect. Hope you get into a few tomoz.

Dan.

[formosa550]

I can let you know that i got rip off by scotty 18k and boat fitting stuff and no boat

[Shawn 66]

I can let you know that i got rip off by scotty 18k and boat fitting stuff and no boat
Mate.
Condolences . I would be absolutely fithy if I was in your situation .
Without knowing the ins and outs of the situation I know that the cause for me being out of pocket would be walking around with the need of a pair of crutches .
Shawn

[Dantren]

Hey Formosa550, I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune with BW.
Perhaps you could share some details of your experience - you may be able to help other Ausfishers how to avoid similar misfortune?
Dan.

[TREVELLY]

According to the rumour mill three people were shown the same boat being built as if it were their boat in progress and one dude paid close to $200K up front for zero return and another had a big boat near complete but impounded by the painting guy who was some months and boats behind being paid.

I can't verify these personally but I believed them all the same as I know the guys who told me and reckon they would not make it up either.

Not many people will want to talk about this fiasco as it just reflects badly on everyone, even those that are hurting from being a victim, for many reasons - it is just an ugly situation.

The poor buggers financially hurt the most will have people saying why did you part with it all that money up front etc - and they don't need that.

Even as I hit post for this post - I wonder if it is easier to say nothing and it is - but I will post it all the same.

[WalrusLike]

I know that there are people hurting from this event but I am glad that the information was shared...

It makes me more aware of fiscal risk and how to manage these important purchases. My friends will be warned to do their purchases safely if they are thinking of buying a boat... So the information and lessons learned helps many.

There is no reason for the boat industry as a whole to suffer just because the customer is more aware of the risks.... Boats can still be commissioned and paid for... We just need to be careful about it.

I feel for all those affected... including the staff. Maybe the industry needs a trust account setup to ensure safety of funds.

[trymyluck]

According to the rumour mill three people were shown the same boat being built as if it were their boat in progress and one dude paid close to $200K up front for zero return and another had a big boat near complete but impounded by the painting guy who was some months and boats behind being paid.




If this true and can be proven then wouldn't it become a criminal matter. Its a shame, when they first came on the market they offered a well priced reliable product with a lot of flexability in their build.

[TREVELLY]

If this true and can be proven then wouldn't it become a criminal matter. Its a shame, when they first came on the market they offered a well priced reliable product with a lot of flexability in their build.

TML I think this matter still has a long way yet to go and yes I am not the only one who has said it even in this thread:-


>:(

I am 1 of those waiting for a boat that never exsisted along wth many others. So whatever stories Scotty has told are absolute rubbish. He has lied, cheated and ripped people off. He quoted time frames to some people who are still waiting 12 months into the built. I paid a deposit, progressive payments on a hull, cabin and floor, paid for a trailer and the whole time was consistanly being shown some one elses boat. I have proof of all this. There are several others in the some situation and thats a fact. Nice guy that Scott is............... WTF NOT! He has now gone underground instead of facing the music. Lots of poeple are looking for him.

And Walruslike - yes mate agree with you - that was why I hit send anyway to my post.

When mud and poo flies everywhere even the good operators making boats have to ride it out and re-prove they are as good as they have always been and it just sours the industry - not good for anyone.

[Brittany]

Hi everyone,

I am one of the unlucky ones who was ripped off. Quotes are around $30,000 to have the boat finished. Please know that the police do not consider this a criminal matter - we could pursue fraud, but is it worth it? Apart from fraud, there is no police matter and is purely a civil matter.

Also it is worthy of note that our boat was financed through a bank. Unfortunately bank finance for boats specifically does not allow for down payments as the boat is completed, as what banks require for houses being built. Also, we live about 800kms north of the Burpengary workshop, so it would have still been possible to send fake photos of the boat through the stages of completion regardless if the boat was at that stage or not. Fortunately the only benefit for us is that whilst the boat was paid in full, it is in a secured loan and so no receiver or liquidator can take the boat from us. There is a risk of that occurring for those who got their boats out prior to the doors closing. That risk will continue with them even if they have the works completed - not only could you lose the money through Bluewater, but also lose the money you spend on fixing it up. I would encourage each affected to seek their own legal advice though.

We received fake photos of our boat, we were told our boat was at the painters (despite that a lot of the hot work is not even complete), etc. and we were told to expect our boat in December last year. We have to borrow to pay for the boat to be finished, we have to put off having children for a while and we have to continue making repayments for a half-finished boat.

I don't want anyone to feel sorry for us - I want everyone to get smarter and encourage those that are in the business to manage your cash flow, be honest to your customers and do business in good faith.

Good luck to those who have been hit and if you want to talk more, I'm happy to take PMs.

[fisho8]

Thanks for sharing this info Brittany I would fell sick to the guts if I was in your position....I am sorry as I do not want to make you feel any worse this is truly shattering. Just makes it hard to trust anyone really. I mean what can people do....... go as far as get an accountant to look into the business to make sure they are stable before things go ahead......seems like this is what it may come to before any money changes hands. I do hope you get your boat finished and get out on the water so you can put this behind you.

Cheers Mick.

[WalrusLike]

Jeez Brittany you must be due for some real good luck soon.

Thank you for being so forthcoming with painful info that will no doubt help others. Chin up... Your due soon for a win I would think.

[Tim_N]

Unfortunately,
I don't think any of us are going to be due for any sort of a win anytime soon in this Bluewater matter.
Karma is what I'm relying on.
Tim

[FisHard]

Surely the boating industry regulators have to come up with a secure payment system to stamp this rubbish out? If I were in the market for a custom boat, this would really put me off, and that's not good for the companies that are still trading honestly and reliably. I'm very sorry for the guys that have been stung here. Its happened to me in business, and its not a good feeling to wave big dollars goodbye :(

[Matt76]

So how would a secure payent system work? I put a deposit into a trust account of some sort, the boat builder is still going to want that money to buy materials etc and pay wages until the next stage, so he has to be able to get his money out anyway. Where is the security?

[theangryangler]

Wow I am shocked about this I was across the road at brisbane yamaha last week and saw people
millin about thru the gates... then this week they are closed just like that!!
good luck to all involved who have parted with their hard earned!!
On a sidenote if they were a "company" they will get into trouble if still trading whilst obviously
on the brink of collapse/Insolvancy..... especially if they were still taking deposits.

[Stuart]

You hit the nail on the head mate. Maybe he has done a christopher skase and moved overseas.

[snapperdan]

So how would a secure payent system work? I put a deposit into a trust account of some sort, the boat builder is still going to want that money to buy materials etc and pay wages until the next stage, so he has to be able to get his money out anyway. Where is the security?

Its called escrow.

I assume you put down deposit to the builder and pay for the engine the rest in an escrow account. Builder gets percentages from the esrow account after each stage is completed. You get the title for the boat and engine. The builder gets the final amount after the boat is fully completed and delivered and the boat doesnt have any holes or serious build issues. I assume thats how alot of the custom builders in america work from tarpon boats to custom carolinas. Debt Free boat builders. Builder goes belly up midway through build you have and engine and a partially completed boat as well as whats remaining in escrow.

[eureka]

buy a 100k landcruiser and put down a $500 deposit buy a hundred k boat and they want 50 k to start sometime in the future .
there is something wrong here? now I know you will say that toyo have the money to back them self's and a bigger market than say a custom boat builder but their must be a better way than just handing over large sums of money and getting some pic's saying boat coming along give me more money,maybe some sort of contract that outlines the progress payments at set stages of the build and some sort of independant inspector to validate those stages before releasing the funds,just a thought hope someone can build on this and maybe make it easier for everyone to buy their dream boat.
this is why I bought a second hand platey just didn't want to deal with the stress of have one built and thank god I did as the boat was a jopalo another one that bit the dust in a very unplesant way.

[Stuart]

Easy for those that havent been burnt to say I wouldnt hand over that much lettuce. A mate of mine lost over 100K in the Jopalo saga. He ended up with a half finished boat and 100k out of pocket. I wouldnt be handing over much more than $1000 deposit, if the boat builder cant fund the build then he must be on the edge of trading insolvent. Im not to sure what other industry reqiers the customer to hand over a large deposit and then progress payments every couple of months, I could be wrong but I cant think of any. The law is very clear in this country, you only need to hand over 5c for it to be a binding contract, thats fair dinkum. I cant see to many taking 5c for a 50K boat but it sure whould be great. Nothing is going to change in the boat building game in this country, we will continue to see peoples hard earned money effectivly stolen. These boat builders that close up over night taking peoples money will do it to the wrong guy one day, the end result could be bad for there health.

[Stuart]

I forgot to mentiuon that there is new legislation been introduced in parliment that will make it ilegal for one sided terms and conditions. Often in most cases you must except the terms and conditions of the seller or the deal will not proceed. The new legislation will address this by making the contract negotiable between seller and buyer. This will cover deposits, progress payments and any other part of the contract you may not like. I understand that in many cases you can make changes to a contract but in terms of progress payments or the deposit amounts in normaly non negotiable. Im not sure it has gone through as of yet but when it does it can offer a bit more protection for the consumer. There is a hell of a lott to this new legislation and in some part it has some worring aspects to it.

[Tangles]

Stuart,

Mate, i wouldnt quite agree with this:

.The law is very clear in this country, you only need to hand over 5c for it to be a binding contract, thats fair dinkum.

Nothing to do with 5 cents, dont need 5 cents, can be an oral contract as well

[Matt76]

So stuart if a boat builder cant finance $99,000 of a $100,000 boat he must be on the verge of being insolvent? You obviously dont run your own business! I am not a boat builder but there is no way in hell i would take on a job in my field that big with a measly $1k deposit, contract or not. We hear lots of horror stories on here of dodgy boat builders but im sure all business owners can tell you many more stories of customers that run out of money once the deposit is paid. Contract doesnt mean squat then. The good boat builders are going to suffer here of course but expecting them to fund the build and then hope they dont get stuck with a boat at the end is unrealistic.

[Jarrah Jack]

So stuart if a boat builder cant finance $99,000 of a $100,000 boat he must be on the verge of being insolvent? You obviously dont run your own business! I am not a boat builder but there is no way in hell i would take on a job in my field that big with a measly $1k deposit, contract or not. We hear lots of horror stories on here of dodgy boat builders but im sure all business owners can tell you many more stories of customers that run out of money once the deposit is paid. Contract doesnt mean squat then. The good boat builders are going to suffer here of course but expecting them to fund the build and then hope they dont get stuck with a boat at the end is unrealistic.


There are ways, it can be done and is done in the industry. Putting down a deposit is the same as lending the boat builder the sum with no security.

There has been a lot of discussion on this subject on previous threads where builders have gone bust.

Its sad to see the same things happening over and over again. Some boat builders aren't learning and the buying public are repeating the same errors. I suspect it will always be the case.

[Stuart]

So stuart if a boat builder cant finance $99,000 of a $100,000 boat he must be on the verge of being insolvent? You obviously dont run your own business! I am not a boat builder but there is no way in hell i would take on a job in my field that big with a measly $1k deposit, contract or not. We hear lots of horror stories on here of dodgy boat builders but im sure all business owners can tell you many more stories of customers that run out of money once the deposit is paid. Contract doesnt mean squat then. The good boat builders are going to suffer here of course but expecting them to fund the build and then hope they dont get stuck with a boat at the end is unrealistic.

I have my own business and yes I do take a small deposit and then build the product. I dont ask for progress payments. With the sheer amount of companies going arse up would you hnd over 10K, I doubt it very much? Sure is lots of stories about dodgy boat builders but not all were dodgy. Here is a little fact for you to take to bed. Out of the 95% of businesss that go broke or close up is due to poor cash flow, out of those 95%, 70% were very profitable. So, by handing over a large deposit and signing the most air tight contract means bugger all for the customer. Making progress in addition to the deposit payment could mean you are now going o loose even more of your hard earned. In fact you could have only 10K out of a 100K boat to go and the builder shuts up shop and takes off. I bet any amount of money that you wished you had of done this deal diffrent. I have been burnt in the past so Im speaking from experiance here. As a consumer my money isnt safe and it cant be guaranteed if the business should go arse up over night with out any notification. The biggest problam with business when they are under financial pressure is to keep trading and taking deposits in the hope they can trade out of it. Most wont and thats the hard fact. It makes good sense to hire an administrator to try and get you out of the poo.

[Matt76]

I have my own business and yes I do take a small deposit and then build the product. I dont ask for progress payments. With the sheer amount of companies going arse up would you hnd over 10K, I doubt it very much? Sure is lots of stories about dodgy boat builders but not all were dodgy. Here is a little fact for you to take to bed. Out of the 95% of businesss that go broke or close up is due to poor cash flow, out of those 95%, 70% were very profitable. So, by handing over a large deposit and signing the most air tight contract means bugger all for the customer. Making progress in addition to the deposit payment could mean you are now going o loose even more of your hard earned. In fact you could have only 10K out of a 100K boat to go and the builder shuts up shop and takes off. I bet any amount of money that you wished you had of done this deal diffrent. I have been burnt in the past so Im speaking from experiance here. As a consumer my money isnt safe and it cant be guaranteed if the business should go arse up over night with out any notification. The biggest problam with business when they are under financial pressure is to keep trading and taking deposits in the hope they can trade out of it. Most wont and thats the hard fact. It makes good sense to hire an administrator to try and get you out of the poo.

Yeah I see what you are saying I really do.

Its a really messy situation because lots of consumers have been burnt and through the power of the internet we are all well educated on it and shit scared of giving deposits. I did pay a deposit and paid for my boat in full before it was finished, but I did trust my builder and had a bit of background knowledge of him, still my gamble I guess, but I was happy enough to do it.

On the other side of the coin I have been screwed over by approx $30k in the past 3 years by different customers that have gotten there goods from me and decided not to pay for them, so there has to be some kind of balance between protection for the buyer and protection for the manufacturer. If I quote a job at work and the customer is not one of our normal account customers I ask for 50% deposit, if they buck at that I will happily turn the job down. The way I see it we both gamble the same amount of money then. I don't do it because I need the money, I just don't trust customers anymore. Sad isn't it!

[WalrusLike]

I was thinking about this and thought that maybe the answer is some sort of legislated mandatory insurance. It will add a bit to the cost but maybe not so much...

The purchaser pays in full into the insurers account. The insurer guarantees the purchaser gets either the boat or their money back. The insurer pays progress payments to the builder and assumes the risk.... They own the half built boat until they either hand it to the purchaser or give the money back because the builder went bust. The contract has a penalty clause against the builder for excessive delay. The purchaser gets the penalty funds.

It's a good lurk for the insurer because they are now doing what the banks do... Hold on to other peoples money and short term invest and profit from it. They also charge a premium for the insurance. Hopefully competition keeps that charge down.

The builder knows the purchaser has full capacity to pay because they already have before he starts the build. He's got money coming in reliably as the build progresses.

The purchaser can't loose unless a gfc happens and then all bets are off anyway.

The insurance company already have expertise in assements of progress, paying contractors, spreading risk and handling funds because of their general insurance businesses. They also have experience in written off firesales so they are well positioned to clean up the mess of a failed transaction.

If the govt regulated the insurer to ensure they hold a reasonable reserve then it would make it all pretty safe wouldn't it? Or am I naive?

[mull dog]

That makes too much sense walrus. figure out a way for the govt to make money from it and then it might happen

[Stuart]

Maybe the builder should have one of those GPS ankle braclets fitted so you can watch his every move.