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View Full Version : Centre Rollers on Trailers for Vagabonds etc



Chimo
17-04-2012, 02:24 PM
Hi Guys

We were getting into the placement of centre rollers on another thread so to avoid hijacking it heres the new thread. After the last posts on the other thread this issue got me thinking so I figured I would ask the expert, ie the guy who used to build and supply the trailers to Lindsay at Seafarer and who I got to do some work to my Tinka some years ago.

So the word is that the centre rollers are not supposed to touch the keel as that may put too much stress on the boat as the trailer flexes as its designed to do with the boat secured to the trailer at the bow and at the stern. The trailer is designed specifically to carry the boat on the wobble rollers.

If you want to ring the man and ask specific questions I can provide contact details. If you need work done he is still working on trailers, from the job he did on mine he is good and certainly knows his stuff.

Cheers
Chimo


7902979030

stue2
17-04-2012, 02:51 PM
Just replaced the keel roler rods with stainless ones. That made her roll

Chimo
17-04-2012, 03:17 PM
Hey Stu

You are not traveling between home and the coast with the keel of your Vag sitting on stainless rollers are you? Rubber would be bad enough but SS would be murder on an FRP hull!:-[

Cheers
Chimo

FisHard
17-04-2012, 03:32 PM
Good one, thanks Chimo! I only noticed my hull was clear of the keel rollers a couple of months ago and put their adjustment on the "to do" list ;) Scratch that job.
I will be sure to have another good look at it on Sunday as she rolls off into the azure waters of Airlie Beach :D

stue2
17-04-2012, 07:48 PM
Hey Stu

You are not traveling between home and the coast with the keel of your Vag sitting on stainless rollers are you? Rubber would be bad enough but SS would be murder on an FRP hull!:-[

Cheers
Chimo

No mate, sporting lovely blue and red ones. The stainless rods support them

Chimo
17-04-2012, 09:21 PM
Cool! Methinks I misread No 2! Can you make me a set too? Bring them up with the wheat?

C
C

stue2
17-04-2012, 09:51 PM
Cool! Methinks I misread No 2! Can you make me a set too? Bring them up with the wheat?

C
C

Cause some kaos at the airport that lot would. Breaking quarentine and carrying weapons

JJV555
17-04-2012, 10:58 PM
My plan is to totally remove the keel rollers and place a piece of the plastic bumper material on the trailer just incase l come in to fast, going to look at a Vaga of a friend of a friend later this week that he has removed the center rollers on and also has tabs fitted so l will kill two birds with one stone, plus try and pick up on any other mods that l might adopt to my baby.

Thanks again Chimo for starting the post.

Regards
John

aardvarkscotty
18-04-2012, 01:40 PM
is it the same for the other seafarers on the redco trailers? eg Vikings, Venturas, anything else starting with V!

The rear most roller on my Viking doesnt get touched (maybe it does on retrieve but can't say I can see it as its underwater!) but the front two do after being loaded.

WalrusLike
18-04-2012, 01:47 PM
.....The rear most roller on my Viking doesnt get touched (maybe it does on retrieve but can't say I can see it as its underwater!)......

If you really wanted to know you could maybe put a bit of whiteout or suchlike on the top of the side edge of the roller. If it is used it will rotate and you will see that after the retrieve. Of course if it is loose it may rotate anyway without touching but that seems unlikely.

Chimo
18-04-2012, 02:48 PM
AVScotty

PM sent

C
C

Grand_Marlin
18-04-2012, 06:46 PM
G'day Chimo,

Interesting point of view.
Most trailer manufacturers use a 60/40 weight distribution between keel and side rollers.

Cheers

Pete

Chimo
18-04-2012, 07:06 PM
Hi Pete

Yes it is an interesting ponit of view, and as these trailers were specified by Seafarer and their use facilitated a five year hull warranty and apparently others only 1 yr it has some basis in fact. I doubt, but do not know for sure if there were issues and or damage to these hulls due to the trailers they were carried on. Lets face the hulls are (?were?) are built pretty well so I doubt that much happened to any of them in the five yr period whether it was on a Tinka or not.

But wait theres more. Some years ago I was told by the owner / manufacturer of an aluminium boat that I owned and the same product that we had also purchased for Fisheries and Wildlife patrol work that the trailers were to be set up so that weight was evenly distributed ie same on the keel line as the other points of support eleswhere too. The way he said to check was to test that all rollers (on roller trailers) were equally difficult to turn by hand (or with a tool similar to an oil filter remover)

Who said boating was boring?

Cheers
Chimo

johncar
18-04-2012, 07:28 PM
Yeah I think Lindsay just got sick of seeing his boats being put on very support scant trailers by the dealers. So very hard to give a good hull warranty when the trailer choice was out of his control. I had a Seafarer specific Tinka Trailer under my 6.0 Victory, a little while ago now, thought it was full multi roller but I was happy with the trailer overall. The whole BMT package was built to completion at Seafarer and beyond doubt the best new boat buying experience I have ever had. Virtually nothing for me to whinge about, amazing!! I was very sad to see that Lindsay had sold the business.

Grand_Marlin
18-04-2012, 07:38 PM
Yes you are right, they did have a 5 year hull warranty when on the factory fitted trailer.
Lindsay Fry told me he was sick of the dealers setting them up wrong, damaging the hull and then initiating warranty claims.
Lindsay / Seafarer built a boat that was all but bullet proof, so bad trailer setup has no reflection on the build quality of the hull.

I like the 50/50 idea.
I believe the strongest part of the boat is the keel and the boat should be supported on it.
I also prefer both keel rollers & multi rollers (or teflon slides) on the trailer.
A full multi roller trailer is fine if it has plenty of rollers and it is adjusted properly, which is time consuming / hard to do.
All trailers should be checked for adjustment regularly.
You get a feel for what pressures are needed and where.
I use a bottle jack, operated by hand without the extension handle in it.

Cheers

Pete

ozscott
18-04-2012, 10:17 PM
My first generation Vag is on a full multi with no keel rollers at all. Cheers

Smithy
19-04-2012, 10:03 AM
Trailers are so hard to set up just perfect. When you jack a support up it takes all the sag out of the steel in the main frame and then when you tighten and drop the jack you have to go around and adjust a few more. It is a never ending circle. The first time the boat comes off it is all out straight away. Anyway it gives you something to do on windy day! I reckon multi rollers for glass boats and keep them off the keel rollers. The keel rollers will always make you come on crooked if you put a lot of weight on them on a multi. Maybe the front two keel rollers in play are ok. Tecnically they reckon alloy boats should be supported on keel rollers. I've certainly seen a lot of good brand plateys like Fishers on multis and they go well. The keel roller, skid side Dunbier I had for the Stabi worked Great. I had all the weight on the keel rollers and the side supports were just to stop it tipping over. That is the same way I had my Edgetracker tinny setup. The guide on skids of the Dunbier worked great. Once you get your depth to launch and retrieve worked out I could hit it at some pretty big angles in current and get it on straight. The only time I ever stuffed up, about 1 in 20 was when I was on the phone doing it one handed. That meant another chop so I banned myself from talking on the phone trying to retrieve!

Grand_Marlin
19-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Thats the exact point Smithy, you have to keep onto them on a regular basis, no matter what style of trailer you have.

Cheers

Pete

Fed
19-04-2012, 10:21 AM
I think those Seafarers must have weak keels if you need a special trailer for them.:P

JJV555
03-06-2012, 09:52 PM
I learn't my lesson the hard way today by chipping a fair section from the keel due to those silly keel rollers, really can't understand why they are there, as Smithy said they will throw you crooked and sure enough they did, anyway after damaging the boat thought l was not leaving the ramp until l worked out what was going on.

Totally removed the center set and cut the uprights off while at the ramp and dropped the front one right down will also be cutting this one off and fitting a V shaped angle iron with teflon.

Guys l am really interested to know how deep do you put the trailer in the water , l tried in deep covering the entire wheel guard today and also out of the water a fair way and both occasions not so good, l found with less trailer in the water the result was worse with not hitting the center on the trailer it would still trow me, therefore l am thinking that the trailer needs to be deeper in the water so that the front of the boat hits further up the trailer.

Interested to hear how others do it with a tinka trailer.

tassjo
03-06-2012, 10:57 PM
hi all,in regards to grand marlins comment why is it that a lot of usa built boats are on skids wouldnt skids take more of the hulls weight than a roller (surface area)just a thought

Fed
04-06-2012, 08:16 AM
The Yanks are still living in the 50s tassjo.

fishfeeder
04-06-2012, 09:07 AM
JJV555, I reverse in until the front of the guard is just in the water for unloading...
When retrieving I go a little deeper and drive it on, I found if i stand to the left of the steering wheel its a lot easier to line to boat up, and make sure your going about walking pace when your come onto the trailer as going to slow always makes loading harder to get right..

I have a few marks in my hull and I think they are from the keel rollers at the back of the trailer.. stupid idea and I am thinking of modifying them to just a strip of that plastic skids stuff running across the frame.. my marks are back about 2/3rds of the hull from the front so its has to be the back set of keel rollers doing the damage..

Be interested to see what others think about removing them.

Cheers
Brett

Chimo
04-06-2012, 10:19 AM
JJV555

I find the Seafarer Tinka trailer easy to use. I used to drive the work boats onto the trailers but over the years we all did our fair share of damage to the boats doing it.

My trailer has a 912 winch with a pulley block on the cable hook and the boat is hauled on with a double cable set up in place. As mentioned in other posts in this site after getting sick of trailer maintenance and brake issues the trailer does no longer get much sea water on it. The trailer only gets backed in to the point that the lower section of the rear rotors get immersed and the Vag is then hauled up onto the trailer with the rear roller starting the job and then the rear quad wobble rollers on the back coming into play.

The boat must be restrained when launching or it would take off far too quickly so this is done too.

No complaints about the Tinka other than the rate at which the brake system breaks down in salt water but if they dont get immersed its a simple life!

Cheers
Chimo

JJV555
04-06-2012, 08:54 PM
JJV555, I reverse in until the front of the guard is just in the water for unloading...
When retrieving I go a little deeper and drive it on, I found if i stand to the left of the steering wheel its a lot easier to line to boat up, and make sure your going about walking pace when your come onto the trailer as going to slow always makes loading harder to get right..

I have a few marks in my hull and I think they are from the keel rollers at the back of the trailer.. stupid idea and I am thinking of modifying them to just a strip of that plastic skids stuff running across the frame.. my marks are back about 2/3rds of the hull from the front so its has to be the back set of keel rollers doing the damage..

Be interested to see what others think about removing them.

Cheers
Brett

Hi Brett,
Not quite sure l fully understand how deep your going in, on each end of the guard there is a horizontal section almost a step so to speak do you put it in so this is just in the water?

Or do you put the trailer in when the top of the total guard is just submerged, which means the trailer is a fair way in?

I think l need to put in until the top of the guard is submerged, which means you will most likely have to get your feet wet to put the safety chain on and winch hook

Yes did try to stand in the center as well but missed the center of the trailer still

fishfeeder
05-06-2012, 09:26 AM
JJV55, When your looking in your side mirror I reverse down to the that little step you can see is just in the water., About half your front tyre on the trailer is in the water, this is for unloading.
For driving on I find it better to be deeper, I think my lights on the top of my trailer guards are just under water. You will find different ramps make a difference to the depth you need to go and practice makes is easier to work out. You might find yours will go on better at a certain depth so experiment and take note what works the best for your boat and trailer.

One thing is sometimes even when the boat is on the center on the trailer while driving on the front of the the boat will seem to go off course.. All you do is turn the motor a small amount and give a bit of power and the boat will recenter and come up straight. Don't stress to much about the boat staying perfectly straight while driving on. The wobble rollers will straighten up the boat before you get near the winch post.

Driving on just takes a bit of practice and you will find even in a good cross wind its easier to get onto the trailer if your going about walking speed with minimal directional changes as hitting reverse at the last min will stuff the approach everytime, So give yourself some room to line up the trailer and try standing in the center of the boat while lining up the trailer as from the driving position it will look off course until you get used to it.

Sorry if this has confused you more.

Cheers
Brett

JJV555
05-06-2012, 09:35 PM
Hi Brett,

No confusion very well explained fully understand what you have described, and totally agree hitting reverse at the last second is probably worse as l have experienced, and yes need to try and use the motor and some throttle to re align when she is off course, agree here just need to put this into practice without doing any damage, fingers crossed, will be out there one night this week to put some flow coat on the nice chips l put on the keel, anyway it is all a learning curve, when it comes to a bigger boat, was all to easy with the 5.5viking l had, it was a breeze to drive on, as apposed to this monster.

Thank you again.
Regards
John

JJV555
09-10-2012, 11:05 PM
Hi All i'm going to install three sets of these centering skid set ups onto the trailer where the center rollers are located to assist with the centering and guiding the hull onto the trailer.
Interested to hear what other Vaga or Victory owners think who have the Tinka trailer? has anyone done anything similar, the skid will be right ontop of the roller is my plan.

stue2
10-10-2012, 02:52 PM
Hi John and Brett. I had a little trouble chipping the keel as well but it seems to be caused by the second set of wobblers not the first set. which would suggest that Im well off course.

I have twins which means i need to be in further to drive on because the motors are higher and dont grip enough.

The boat can jump the first gang of wobblers and land on the second gang of three before sliding into the centre. I have ordered more protector strips to cover all the gangs and will look into removing the keel rollers altogether.

I dont winch on because my winch is still in bits after exploding on the ramp one windy busy day. I use a catch set up that grabs the boat when you drive on. To drive off i just push forward a tad untill it releases and then back off.

Cheers
Stu

fin101
10-10-2012, 03:42 PM
I have a Mackay alloy trailer with skids and a lot of keel rollers for my HH650R, the boat cannot hit anywhere and get damaged, it goes on and off in any wind and at angles it just straightens itself up and and I drive it on to the draw bar , takes nothing to get on and off solo. I don't have a mark on the hull anywhere in the 12 mths I have had it. Some trailers I have had have been a disaster to use to be honest. I am not sure which system is the best, skids or multis , all I know is that it works a treat on this boat. A mate has a haines traveller and he has had to fit guide bars etc because getting it on and off was difficult. I think dealers etc should all be a bit more particular when it comes to selling the buyer a boat and the right trailer for it. Nothing worse than coming home from a big day on the water and battling to get you rig on safely and without doing any damage.

Chimo
10-10-2012, 03:56 PM
Fin101

Interesting point you make,

"I think dealers etc should all be a bit more particular when it comes to selling the buyer a boat and the right trailer for it. Nothing worse than coming home from a big day on the water and battling to get you rig on safely and without doing any damage."

When Lindsay Fry had Seafarer the boats came with a Five year hull warranty if the boat was sold on a "Seafarer / Tinka" setup trailer; 12months warranty on other trailer if I remember correctly' maybe Boatboy50 can comment?

The man ex Mayfair who used to set up the Tinka trailers is still around; maybe he should also comment.

Cheers
Chimo

fin101
10-10-2012, 04:24 PM
I have had a couple of shocker trailers, I think I know what to look for now, I thought long and hard before chooseing this one. Admittedly I guess it will be price that dealers will think about when getting a b/t package together, but in reality it can be a huge mistake, for the owner in particular. It is a pretty important bit of kit when you think about it and deserves a bit more attention when it comes to suitability and safety. Don't see the point of putting the boat you paid a lot of money for on a trailer that is not appropriate for it.

johncar
10-10-2012, 06:28 PM
Yeah I had a similar setup on my last Dunbier, It was a nice trailer, very user friendly particularly after a few personal enhancements
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt187/johncar/Tournament%202100%20Walkaround/BILD1705.jpg

JJV555
10-10-2012, 07:07 PM
Hi John and Brett. I had a little trouble chipping the keel as well but it seems to be caused by the second set of wobblers not the first set. which would suggest that Im well off course.

I have twins which means i need to be in further to drive on because the motors are higher and dont grip enough.

The boat can jump the first gang of wobblers and land on the second gang of three before sliding into the centre. I have ordered more protector strips to cover all the gangs and will look into removing the keel rollers altogether.

I dont winch on because my winch is still in bits after exploding on the ramp one windy busy day. I use a catch set up that grabs the boat when you drive on. To drive off i just push forward a tad untill it releases and then back off.

Cheers
Stu


Stu, make sure the center rollers are not hard up on the keel as this is what l did the damage on and yes my boat does not touch the first roller, however l will still fit a set just incase on the first roller, to be honest l honestly believe that the center rollers are my problem but the guides will help if not centered when you come in.

Fin101 totally agree, if l was to change trailers or the B & T l will give it a lot of thought as stated there is nothing worse than damaging the pride & joy after a days fishing, l hate it.

JJV555
10-10-2012, 07:12 PM
Yeah I had a similar setup on my last Dunbier, It was a nice trailer, very user friendly particularly after a few personal enhancements
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt187/johncar/Tournament%202100%20Walkaround/BILD1705.jpg

Johncar, that looks like an awesome trailer, the blue skids you have is what l plan to do, was this standard or something you fitted after the purchase, and what type of trailer is it??

Boeing trailers in NSW seem to make a great set up and have a V guide at the first point of contact, do a goggle search and see there trailers, not sure on price but they look great and seem like they will do a great job

And yes i'm driving my Vagabond on i have not tried to winch due to time holding up the ramp and i think it will be to heavy to hand winch, might try if this does not fix my issue as l sick of damaging the keel, even though l got plenty of experience now flowcoating the damage...

stue2
10-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Stu, make sure the center rollers are not hard up on the keel as this is what l did the damage on and yes my boat does not touch the first roller, however l will still fit a set just incase on the first roller, to be honest l honestly believe that the center rollers are my problem but the guides will help if not centered when you come in.

Fin101 totally agree, if l was to change trailers or the B & T l will give it a lot of thought as stated there is nothing worse than damaging the pride & joy after a days fishing, l hate it.

Thanks John. The keel rollers are a fair way from the keel. its because i have to back in so far, she hits the second gang.
That trailer of Johncars looks the goods.

Cheers guys

johncar
11-10-2012, 09:27 PM
Well It's not my Trailer now, Sold it to Brad up in Rocky, hope he is still very happy with it.
It's a Dunbier Glider series Ally trailer. It was quite good out of the box but it did have a few of the usual issues I had to sort out. I added some more wobbles over the standard and modified the ladder style keel roller set up a little. Adjusted everything up and I think you could throw a boat at that trailer and it would come up straight every time with no gelcoat damage.

The lateral skids are great, not a cheap option by the time you put a few on with all the supports etc but do a good job of aligning the boat if you don't get it quite right.

Mine came with the trailer but does anyone know where to buy that heavy plastic U channel to make them out of? I want to also fit them to my current trailer .

JJV555
11-10-2012, 09:55 PM
Does anyone know where to buy that heavy plastic U channel to make them out of? I want to also fit them to my current trailer .

Here you go it took me about a week to find the source as l hunted high and low to work out who manufactured it, but was well worth it as your buying directly from the manufacture and price is excellent you will not find it cheaper anywhere.

Note that it will only come in grey unless your lucky enough that the size you need is in either blue or red

I am about to order to do the skids as per your old trailer in the pic.

It all comes from the one supplier is what l understand

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/Boat-Parts-Accessories-/26443/i.html?_nkw=bumper+cover&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282
http://www.roxom.com.au/store.htm
http://www.magnaplas.com/aus/contact.htm