Tiguan towing haines signature 542f

[NTMID8]

Hi all,

Hopefully you guys can help me, im looking at buying a family car (baby due in oct). Id like a suv style, prefer turbo diseal (fuel economy) and have a budget to no more than 30k. This is where my dilemma starts, im looking at upgrading my boat in the future to a haines signature 542f, from what ive read they weigh about 1500kg. Ive been looking at a 2009 volkswagon tiguan, they have a tow capacity of 2000kg but have a maximum tow ball weight of 100kg. Do you guys think the tiguan could safely tow the sig? Would it make a difference if the sig had a single or tandem trailer? What other options would i have in the medium sized veh range capable of towing the sig?

Thanks for the advice

[Gon Fishun]

Second hand BT50 crew cab 3lt 4cyl turbo diesel 3000kg towing. Has no problem towing Haines Hunter V16C. 10lts per 100km. Style side with lockable plastic lid to keep pram and shopping dry and mum happy. Dual purpose vehicle. ;)

[Jarrah Jack]

I'm in a similar situation needed something more powerful than the 3 ltr non turbo Hi Lux to tow my 520 sig. I've decided on a Colorado 3ltr turbo diesel for the job. Similar to the BT 50 in specs.

The 100kg tow bar weight for 2 tonne towing capacity is strange, should be at least 200.

[timeout]

Hi all,

Hopefully you guys can help me, im looking at buying a family car (baby due in oct). Id like a suv style, prefer turbo diseal (fuel economy) and have a budget to no more than 30k. This is where my dilemma starts, im looking at upgrading my boat in the future to a haines signature 542f, from what ive read they weigh about 1500kg. Ive been looking at a 2009 volkswagon tiguan, they have a tow capacity of 2000kg but have a maximum tow ball weight of 100kg. Do you guys think the tiguan could safely tow the sig? Would it make a difference if the sig had a single or tandem trailer? What other options would i have in the medium sized veh range capable of towing the sig?

Thanks for the advice
What about a Jeep grand Cherokee they can tow 3 ton

[GBC]

BIL towed ours with a v6 Rav no probs. Get the trailer balance right and possibly a load distribution hitch for your 100 k.g. ball weight and it should do it o.k.

[NTMID8]

Cheers for the replies. The jeep is out if the question as its too big, the vehicle will be used mainly by the wife so it needs to be that "medium" size. I like the idea of dual cabs however dislike there added rego/insurance costs due to being "commercial" vehicle. I would really like a turbo diesel due to there better torque and fuel economy. The only other vehicles i found that would fit the bill are nissan xtrail or pathfinder or hyundai santa fe however the later is probably a bit too big for the wife

[Andy56]

I have an xtrail deisel for a sig 543rf and it pulls well. If your wife does low ks, an xtrail petrol is ok. But don't expect the economy (petrol) to be better than a commodore or falcon, either of which would do the job nicely -- small car, big car thirst. Funny how no one wants a comaford anymore, yet they are more than capable AND almost as good as any other 2litre 4cyle for economy
Proper deisel vehicles start from $36g UNLESS you go chinese, now there is a vehicle in your price range, lol. I am in a similar position concerning my next vehicle. No one supplies a basic deisel/towing vehicle under $30g in this country at the moment.
You would think deisel would be in the mix for a basic car but it seems they want to gouge us by only specing top of the range with deisel.

[Moonlighter]

Santa Fe would be worth a look, great German designed diesel, very economical, rated to 2 tones. The VW are great until you need to buy parts or service them then they are costly.

Cheers

ML

[MyWay]

NTMID8
Very nice car you got on your mind
Very economical awesome to drive and if you wife goin to drive it,
she will love it .
IMO I don't think you going ti have any problem towing your future boat I would only look in to upgrading tow ball
I ' m sure you could just go to super cheep and get one

[fishing111]

Been down that road and you can't increase towball load on VW's.

[NTMID8]

Well after a considerable amount of research it appears that Australia/America trailer makers still use the 10% rule due to simplicity, in Europe however they have done extensive research (allegedly) which shows that trailers upto 2000kg should not exceed 100kg tow ball weight. Now im all sorts of confused!!!! I have never given so much thought to the concept of towing! For my particular case (542 sig) the very worse case is 1600kg, from what i can gather reading around towing forums the basic safety rules are - tow vehicle weighs more than your towing, what your towing is correctly balanced.

Is there any issue towing to the capacity of the vehicle ie - vehicles with a maximum tow capacity of 1600kg? Furthest i tow is 20km (maybe once a year ill tow further but this would be rare)

The other question i have is how safe is it to have a 1500kg setup with a 100kg tow ball weight (about 7% of total weight), running a dual axle trailer surely will reduce the tow ball weight given the total weight is being carried by both axles right?

My wife is pretty set on the Tiguan but im not prepared to buy one if i cant tow the boat i want!

[GBC]

My 542cc will balance on the trailer (mackay 2000 tandem) with no jockey wheel, approx 150mm off the ground. Just move the winch post a little further back and set it up on scales. 100k.g. of down load for a 1600k.g. rig on a tandem trailer is very doable. I'd think it'd be getting close to marginal on a single rig though.
Keeping the tow point of the tiguan down lower will help as the duals take up more load as well.

[Smithy]

Yep what Cameron said above. Also start scrounging the show and shines, weekend markets, specialist caravan places etc. for one of the old school caravan sway bar setups. I've had them on my last two trailerboats as I have been towing with a BA Falcon and a VS Commodore. One boat was single axle on Ford bearings rated to 1800kg and it would have been close to that fully loaded with fuel and ice and my Stabi was on a duals and came in at 1500kg with no fuel and no gear on the dump weighbridge but I would have had a fair bit on the towball. Now the load levellers worked a treat. Around town I didn't bother but on the highway I always put them on and it stiffened the setup up out of sight. Great for wheel ruts and rough sections. Well worth the $25 or so you might be able to get them for.

The VWs are great bits of gear. The father-in-law is towing a 23' van with a Toureg. That is coming from a Nissan Patrol and he is loving it.

[Andy56]

If the boat you want is close to1600/2000kg to tow, understand the reason behind the 10 percent load on the tow ball. It's to keep the whole rig stable and under control under all situations. My understanding is that the trailer can become unstable if there is not enough weight on the ball. 100kg on the ball?, I wouldn't go there. You are better off getting a vehicle that is more up to the job. I would have bought a Tiguan too - if it had a good enough towing ability

[NTMID8]

If the boat you want is close to1600/2000kg to tow, understand the reason behind the 10 percent load on the tow ball. It's to keep the whole rig stable and under control under all situations. My understanding is that the trailer can become unstable if there is not enough weight on the ball. 100kg on the ball?, I wouldn't go there. You are better off getting a vehicle that is more up to the job. I would have bought a Tiguan too - if it had a good enough towing ability

Andy this is where im getting totally confused, from what i can gather (internet research and speaking with a guy at mackay trailers) Australia uses the 10% rule but there is apparently no science behind this concept. The European market (trailers/caravans) must comply with Directive 94/20/EC (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1994L0020:20070101:en:PD F) which i found this quote
"Among all these very precise guidelines is one major variable: tow ball load. There’s a convention that sets tow ball load at around 10 percent of the trailer ATM, but this rule of thumb developed in the days of small trailers. It’s still the practice by many North American and Australian trailer makers to specify 10 percent loadings for heavy trailers, but in Europe, where there has been considerable testing done, the tow ball load range is specified in EC E94/20 regulation as a minimum figure of 25kg and a maximum of 100kg, for trailers up to 2000kg ATM. Even above that figure the heaviest gazetted coupling for cars, light commercials and 4x4s is rated at 120kg tow ball load."
So on this basis i figured that the myth of 10% wouldnt make the tow "dangerous"

At the end of the day the vehicle will be carrying my most precious cargo (wife and newborn) therefore i want maximum safety and im not willing to risk it. I want to remain "legal" and "safe" but from what i can gather the only issue im faced with is the ball weight which seems easily fixed by correct balancing, dual axles and the load assist that Smithy spoke about.

[fishfeeder]

Other option is to get the little lady a new small car to hoon around in....
Then get an old Toyota or Nissan to tow the boat to the ramp... if your not doing a lot of KM in the tow vehicle then you wouldn't need something to do both, and you would have an extra vehicle if needed..

Sure you have an extra Rego and insurance but you will save heaps on Fuel and the benefits are there also..

Cheers
Brett

[Kero]

Santa Fe would be worth a look, great German designed diesel, very economical, rated to 2 tones. The VW are great until you need to buy parts or service them then they are costly.

Cheers

ML


We've got a 2011 Santa Fe & couldn't be happier with it.
7 seats, 145kW/436Nm diesel, 6 speed auto, AWD, 2 tonne tow rating, air bags for all 3 rows of seating & 5 star ANCAP.
The bloody thing flies and pulls like a train!
The best fuel economy we've had is 6.2l/100km on the highway.
Never thought I'd own a Hyundai, now I'd happily buy another.
Good luck with the search!

[Andy56]

its an interesting topic. I just had a good look at the Xtrail towing specs.
1350kg for deisel auto
2000kg for deisel manual
2000kg for australian conditions - without exceptions ( straight from the manual)
For tow ball limit it says "observe the limits of the nissan supplied tow equipment"
The tow hitch says " observe the limits in specifications of car"
"never exceed 10% of trailers load on towball"
I know my boat is around 1350kg all up and I have no problems towing, the weight on the ball is more than I can lift.
My best guess is that the auto is derated purely for the transmission and if the max towing ability is 2000kg, then 200kg is the limit on the ball WHEN EMPTY. If you start to load up the car, you need to derate the weight on the tow ball.
Any clearer? The moral is look at the fine print

[NTMID8]

Yeah there was an article i read on one of the VW sites asking the very question (can you have more than 100kg on the ball if you are under the vehicle GVM) but apparently not. Ill continue to look at other options i think, as much as the wife likes the tiguan i think it might be more practical to give her my car (2006 Liberty GT) and then buy something like a 2007 SR hilux 4x4, or D40 nav etc. I was reading on the SA reg site before and they list a "touring utility" which is only slightly more to reg than a normal 4cyl. A standard ute is over $1000 per year to reg which is stupid, now i just need to find out what a "touring utility" is lol.

During my search i have found an amazing amount of info on ball weights and how many big name "tough trucks" actually have quite low ball weights, Mazda BT50 list 75kg, however will take 250kg with "mazda load distribution device", Almost all european models max 100kg.

[gofishin]

I’m a lazy typer, so I have just modified an old post of mine on a 4wd forum thread which discussed towing (mostly vans) with the NT Pajero and tow-ball weights. The thread had some very good links to articles and reports detailing extensive towing testing - ATM I can’t find it but will edit & add the links later when I track it down.

My $0.02 opinion…

The safety (read stability) of a trailer (van, boat whatever) at speed is much more to do with the type of trailer/load, its static & dynamic design characteristics (including the effects of poor loading practice), the characteristics of the tow vehicle - and the goof driving it(!) than what tow ball mass is present!

Sorry to say, but as an Engineer I don’t agree with a flat 10% rule at all, especially for larger/heavier boat trailers – it is very ‘old school’, and as has been written, most likely came about when manufacturers were building a lot smaller vans/boats. And, it was/is a nice easy calculation…!

Do you think, to back up their claims, any van manufacturer has commissioned dynamic simulation modelling, let alone testing to the level reported in one of the previous links? No!

Before I bought my current boat, I did a lot of research re towing, towing design and vehicle related restrictions, whether tow ball or towed mass reductions. My previous vehicle was rated to tow 3t, but also had restrictions – in this case (from memory) limiting the allowable towed mass when the tow ball mass was above a certain limit.

I don’t/haven’t towed a big van with my NT Paj, but regularly tow a big boat which would sometimes go very close to 3t when fully loaded, for both local and long distance/highway trips. It has a 300kg outboard motor hanging off the back, several meters behind the rear trailer axle, along with ~80kg of batteries just in front of the outboard. Depending on loading/intended destination, it has between 135 – 175kg (measured) of tow ball mass! (max of 6% @ 3t). On long distance/highway trips it would mostly be up the high end, local day (social) trips down the low end – which also involves a stretch of 80kmh road.

It is a dream to tow, and behaves much much better than my previous~1800kg alloy boat & (Aussie) trailer – which had about 10 – 12% tow ball mass. It does, however, have an imported alloy trailer with a low CoG, and torsion bar suspension – hence the trailer has‘damping’ as well as suspension.

Three times I have done 1000km round trips in it, on 100 – 110kmh freeways and rough back country roads, and have never once have I felt any instability in the rig. On one of these 500km legs I had blustery westerlies to over 90kmh, which I indeed felt, but never once created concern.

Boats are quite streamlined to vans in comparison, hence vans would suffer a lot more from windage, but then a van doesn’t have 300 odd kilos hanging off the back either! Properlydesigned and set-up, I see no reason why a larger van or boat would need 10%, or more – except maybe to accommodate/compensate for very poor loading practice!

And yes, I have towed a wide full height van around 2500kg for some longdistances. Great fun, but they get a bitwet inside when you try and go fishing in them… J.
Cheers
Brendon

Some excerpts from local boat trailer websites

Dunbier
How much weight should beon my towball/drawbar?
Typically ona boat/ trailer the overall weight of the boat/motor trailer should not exceedbewteen 5-7% of the total weight on the towball. Eg Boat/Motor/Trailer weights800kg the towball weight should not exceed 56kg as a general rule.

MacKay
Q How much weight should there be on my towball?
A The correct weight should be between 5% to 10% of the overall GVMcapacity. Example - Trailer with 1999kg GVM. Towball weight 99kg to 199kg.Having the wrong towball weight will effect the performance when being towed at>60 kph

[NTMID8]

Thank you GOFISHN, and thanks to everyone else for there input. Im pretty confident after reading various forums and speaking with a few knowledgeable trailer makers and VW Australia that the Tiguan is more than capable of towing the 542f. The general consensus is that the European designed vehicles have actually had extensive testing regarding there towing capabilities but require more thought when loading the tow (boat/caravan). According to Mackay trailers a boat of 1200kg loaded (extreme end of the 542f) on a 400kg dual axle (again heavier end of the scale) correctly balanced should see no more than 80 - 90kg on the tow ball. This would still be safe and according to them probably tow better than having 160 kg on the tow ball as the weight is more evenly spread across the whole package (vehicle and trailer)

[NTMID8]

Thanks everyone for your help, i ended up spending a little more and buying a brand new Subaru Forester Turbo Diesel with a 1600 kg tow capacity. In the end the money it was going to cost me for a second hand Tiguan got me into a brand new Forester! I pick the car up tomorrow and im looking forward to racking up some kays, ill post what the towing is like but i imagine it will be more than adequate!