thinking of building a trailer based on a exsisting design

[gazza2006au]

i picked up this trailer yesterday off a fellow member of aus fish but there is a lot of work involved repairing it so im thinking as a cooler months project to build a new trailer the same as the rusty trailer i have some questions

the current trailer uses a mix of 50x50x3mm (draw bar and rear side to side bar) and 65x40x2.5mm (the rest of trailer) tubing can i just use the 50x50mm all around the trailer?

ive read on aus fish galvanizing cost a buck per kg i will call the shop on tuesday when they reopen how much does the acid bath cost? i will also ask this on tuesday but for now a rough idea will help

i am planning on getting a mig welder from ebay :o dont shoot me :P they cant be that bad and budget will be limited for the first build i could also hire a mig welder for around $67 a day but might become costly over the time i need to assemble the trailer?

i will also hire a 12 ton pipe bender so i have that covered

the wheels,axles,hubs will be transferred from the old trailer to the new frame to keep cost down

is there anything ive missed? ;D

78718

[bf90]

where abouts are you gaz? I have Built 5 trailers this way the last one I did was under a 18 ft ski boat all I reused was the wheels and axles got new springs 100x75 main rails and 75x50 cross members all the steel was pre galv all I did was used cold gal on the welds all up the new trailer cost me $400.00 You can use 50x50 all round the trailer as long as the boat is not too heavy the trailer that is in the pic would be an easy and quick one to make should be able to knock that up in a day no worries especially with two guys on it.I have both mig and arc and I usually tend to use the arc more. all my steel comes from builders surplus and the springs ect from a trailer place in beenleigh cheers Brad.

[googarra]

Use the 65mm x 40mm on all the trailer, dont go backwards to 50mm. The length of the trailer gets its strength from the depth of the material used ie 65mm deep.

You can transfer the VIN to the 'repaired trailer' If you do not alter the length and width and stick to similiar design. If you go longer, shorter ect you 'should' register it as a new trailer 'homemade' and Dept Trans will issue you with a new VIN.

Dont go to the expense of hiring a pipe bender, it will probably kink the RHS anyway, just cut a small vee out, (leaving only one side of the RHS to bend) of the material and it will bend around to what you want and then just reweld it, easy to say if you have done it many times, just a little at a time and you will get the knack of it.

The acid bath is part of the galvanising costs so dont fret over that part of it.

If you want to galvanise it, as you should, here is what you need to know.

They will want to dip it in a great big tub of liquid zinc, sideways, and slowly pull it upwards to let the molten liquid drain away. Now think about what you need to let the zinc inside the RHS and then flow out of the RHS as they pull it up, it must be able to drain away. They will assess it and cut the nastiest, uglest hole with the oxy and not clean it up if they think a drain should be there. That may be OK but the going rate is $5 a hole up here in NQ so if you miss a few it will cost you.

Up here there is a minimum for galvanising but just looking at the pic, you will be looking at about $200, well worth it.

If you are new to welding, get someone to look at the welds to make sure they are OK.

Another thing also, the Zinc will NOT flow over the flux used in gaseless or stick welding. You will need to make sure there are no holes/flux lines or you will end up with a great rust area within a few months

[gazza2006au]

where abouts are you gaz? I have Built 5 trailers this way the last one I did was under a 18 ft ski boat all I reused was the wheels and axles got new springs 100x75 main rails and 75x50 cross members all the steel was pre galv all I did was used cold gal on the welds all up the new trailer cost me $400.00 You can use 50x50 all round the trailer as long as the boat is not too heavy the trailer that is in the pic would be an easy and quick one to make should be able to knock that up in a day no worries especially with two guys on it.I have both mig and arc and I usually tend to use the arc more. all my steel comes from builders surplus and the springs ect from a trailer place in beenleigh cheers Brad. just what i wanted to hear mate ;D how did the cold gal spray work over time? if i could get away with it that easy without galvanizing the trailer frame would make it even cheaper also the boat that will be going on the trailer weighs around 220kg plus the engine another 78kg ith fuel and fishing gear its under 400kg i also have a super cheap auto stick welder that hates me and i hate it ;D but im handy with a mig welder especially a good quality mig welder like the ones from kennards hire i have used a few times so i feel confident

[gazza2006au]

Use the 65mm x 40mm on all the trailer, dont go backwards to 50mm. The length of the trailer gets its strength from the depth of the material used ie 65mm deep.

You can transfer the VIN to the 'repaired trailer' If you do not alter the length and width and stick to similiar design. If you go longer, shorter ect you 'should' register it as a new trailer 'homemade' and Dept Trans will issue you with a new VIN.

Dont go to the expense of hiring a pipe bender, it will probably kink the RHS anyway, just cut a small vee out, (leaving only one side of the RHS to bend) of the material and it will bend around to what you want and then just reweld it, easy to say if you have done it many times, just a little at a time and you will get the knack of it.

The acid bath is part of the galvanising costs so dont fret over that part of it.

If you want to galvanise it, as you should, here is what you need to know.

They will want to dip it in a great big tub of liquid zinc, sideways, and slowly pull it upwards to let the molten liquid drain away. Now think about what you need to let the zinc inside the RHS and then flow out of the RHS as they pull it up, it must be able to drain away. They will assess it and cut the nastiest, uglest hole with the oxy and not clean it up if they think a drain should be there. That may be OK but the going rate is $5 a hole up here in NQ so if you miss a few it will cost you.

Up here there is a minimum for galvanising but just looking at the pic, you will be looking at about $200, well worth it.

If you are new to welding, get someone to look at the welds to make sure they are OK.

Another thing also, the Zinc will NOT flow over the flux used in gaseless or stick welding. You will need to make sure there are no holes/flux lines or you will end up with a great rust area within a few months
top stuff mate great advice i will look up the steel now thanks

[bf90]

under 400kg man that is easy as pie I take the axle and springs off the old trailer and then just use it as a template for the newbi makes life really easy as for the cold galv on its own I really dont know how long it would last as with all my trailers I coat them in fisholine or lanolin or even technol the last one I had under the ski boat would get dunked to the winch post every time and after 4 years when i sold the boat there was no sign of rust at all fisholine , lanolin ect is only about $30 for 2 litres and it is well worth the money hey are in in brisvegus?

[gazza2006au]

forgot to mention the reason i dropped the size from 65 to 50mm tubing was because the hire companys tube bender does max 50mm tubes i have to say the strait edges on the trailer would be cheaper over all but i like the look of modern trailers with bends :-? a 75mm tube bender i would have to buy from ebay for over a couple hundred bucks :o


under 400kg man that is easy as pie I take the axle and springs off the old trailer and then just use it as a template for the newbi makes life really easy as for the cold galv on its own I really dont know how long it would last as with all my trailers I coat them in fisholine or lanolin or even technol the last one I had under the ski boat would get dunked to the winch post every time and after 4 years when i sold the boat there was no sign of rust at all fisholine , lanolin ect is only about $30 for 2 litres and it is well worth the money hey are in in brisvegus?
thanks mate ive heard of lanolin from memory it was hard to find around here (sydney) and thanks for the tip using the old trailer as a template i will call the hire center on tuesday and get some quotes on borrowing tool to do the job

[weekendfisher]

I was going to do a similar thing with my trailer i was thinking of keeping the front hitch post back to the v of the trailer and weld on new beams from there back just using straight tubes and cut them at angles a weld on .but when i gave it some thought it became a little concerning that my welds will be holding my boat up and i'm not to comfortable with that.
there is also the option of paying a metal fab shop to do the bends for you something like $15-$25 a bend well worth it if you want the bends but don't want to buy a bender.
Plus the ebay benders are very average they crush the pipe a fair bit especially on the tighter bends.
I have had my mig for about 4 years i got it from repco good little unit but i still don't think id trust my welding to structural points.
but if you do have success you can come and do mine lol...
Cheers

[Feral]

78718[/ATTACH]

Yeah transferring the old builder plate and the frame number ;)

[MackerelMan]

just what i wanted to hear mate ;D how did the cold gal spray work over time? if i could get away with it that easy without galvanizing the trailer frame would make it even cheaper also the boat that will be going on the trailer weighs around 220kg plus the engine another 78kg ith fuel and fishing gear its under 400kg i also have a super cheap auto stick welder that hates me and i hate it ;D but im handy with a mig welder especially a good quality mig welder like the ones from kennards hire i have used a few times so i feel confident

Do your sums and work out the costs of using painted RHS and getting it hot dipped compared with using gal RHS and painting the welds. I think you will find bugger all difference. If this thing is going near salt water get it hot dipped. Most Gal RHS now is Duragal which is a very thin Gal coating. You will struggle to get adequate protection on the internals of your welds.

[tunaticer]

If you use Duragal RHS and weld that you will have immediate entry for corrosion internally around the burn area inside because you can not physically clean that area prior to sealing and the sealant will not be effective 100% regardless of what you do.
Build the new trailer in the normal factory painted RHS (65x40) and get it hot dipped.
Where you want that bend in the outer chassis it is perfectly ok to cut and shut the RHS and laminate a piece of 50x6 flat bar around the outside for extra support and make sure you prep and fully weld the RHS prior to laminating then fully weld the lamination plate. This way you do not need a bender and it is much easier to get perfectly identical bends.
All hot dipping is acid washed prior to galvanizing, it is mandatory and part of the galvanizing process. Bear in mind all trailers are now done on a cubic metre x weight ratio, not just weight as they are bulky items that take up lots of bath space. Be sure you have ample drainage holes in the right places to drain the galv out and the salt water.
Look to have the rear most members of the trailer open ended if possible as the salt water and galv will drain perfectly. Preferably use a open member (channel section) for the rear most member and weld it between the two side rails.

IMHO if you are going to do a quick cheap job you will be doing it again much sooner than doing it once the best way.

[googarra]

Duragal RHS is just a thin coating to stop it from rusting until properly coated after fabrication

Do not be fooled that this is galvanised and will be OK, use it by all means, but coat/paint/gal it afterwards or watch it rust away. About 6 months ago I looked at a tandem trailer made from duragal with just painted welds, that was at the local dump. It was not very old and I knew where it came from (small community). I would have saved the axel set, but that was all that was any good.

As tunaticer said

If you want nice bends on the 50x50 cross members, go the pipe bender. Notch and bend the 65 RHS on the 3 sides and after gal it and it will look just as good.

You can weld a short piece of 25 x 6mm flat under, as in the pics, to look more 'factory' built and maybe a little extra strength on the join.

If you go the whole hog to bend all the RHS you are really just adding a lot of cost to your project

The pics are my trailer build. The bends are on 125mm open C channel, but the same principle applies



7872978728

[MackerelMan]

The value of bending is that you reduce the number of welds that are difficult to treat internaly, its the inside of the RHS that will give you grief.

[gazza2006au]

thanks guys all great advice im taking on board i will call a shop when they reopen and get a cost on bending the pipes if its around $15 each bend i think i will go that route as there are only 4 bends in the whole trailer

[tunaticer]

The value of bending is that you reduce the number of welds that are difficult to treat internaly, its the inside of the RHS that will give you grief.

For the bends to be made the steel on the inside is crushed and the outside it is stretched, steel and galvanizing do not stetch and bend the same and the galvanizing will be damaged every time guaranteed. It might still look galvanized but the molecular bond between the two is compromised.

[MackerelMan]

For the bends to be made the steel on the inside is crushed and the outside it is stretched, steel and galvanizing do not stetch and bend the same and the galvanizing will be damaged every time guaranteed. It might still look galvanized but the molecular bond between the two is compromised.

Um, the idea is bend the painted RHS, weld where you have to and hot dip the fabricated trailer. No idea where you got the bending of gal RHS from my post. Point is bending prior to dipping does have advantages. As I said originally if it is going near salt water get it hot dipped.

[tunaticer]

Um, the idea is bend the painted RHS, weld where you have to and hot dip the fabricated trailer. No idea where you got the bending of gal RHS from my post. Point is bending prior to dipping does have advantages. As I said originally if it is going near salt water get it hot dipped.
Sorry MM, I did misread your post and took it for using Duragal.

[gazza2006au]

i just found a second hand mig welder the old bloke who owns it says its a good running made in italy but hes working everyday so i have to call him early tomorrow morning price is fair $120 but its 10-15 years old a mig 110 it currently has a roll of stainless steel wire in it

[tunaticer]

110 amp mig??
I would be looking for around 150amps minimum for the job, better power supply for better penetration and more sound welds. Smaller machines have a big tendency to lay a fillet on top without biting into the parent metal, the weld might look ok but not much holding it there.
240v mig machines are pretty common up to 250 amps.

[Jarrah Jack]

If you are using rhs then weld on a nut at every hole so you can put some tuna oil in after the dip and seal with a bolt. You will never have to worry about the insides rusting.

[MackerelMan]

If you are using rhs then weld on a nut at every hole so you can put some tuna oil in after the dip and seal with a bolt. You will never have to worry about the insides rusting.

So do you blank the end of your trailer tubes?

[EdBerg]

Hi, If you are new to welding then I would not recommend that you build a boat trailer as your first job, MIG welds can be deceiving. 300Kg is not a lot of weight, but add whatever the trailer weighs (probably about another 150Kg, so total 450Kg. Now 450kg bouncing along the highway at 100km/hour hitting the odd pothole or so and poor welds will crack and let go and you may find your boat going one way the trailer parts in other directions.

If however you are determined to do this, my next suggestion would be to hire a decent welder instead of buying a cheap crappy welder, there is a reason they are cheap but you can make them into a so so boat anchor. ;D Incidently most MIG machines can use gas or gasless wire but check to see that it will do gasless otherwise you will be up for the bottle rentle and the gas charge, which will cost more than what it's worth to you if you only intend to do just the one job. My recommendation would be to do it in stick (MMA).

My brother welded for years using a cheap OZITO stick welder on farm stuff, and was complaining about how bad the welds were and how hard it was to weld. I bought a 200 amp inverter TIG/MMA welder on his behalf and after him trying it out on the stick welding function he said he wished he had bought that type years ago, what took him over 30 minutes to do and redo and redo with the old one he could do it right with one go in 5 minutes and it would be a good weld.

If you can afford a reasonable home style welder go and practice building something first with it till you get the hang of it. Cheap welders whether they are TIG/MMA or MIG (sub $800) are literally that, avoid them if at all possible.

If you are hiring one, then cut out everything and shape/prep the parts first so when you get the welder you can just tack it up and then weld it all in one hit and you won't need to hire the machine for as long.

Only other suggestion is to do all the prep work first (make sure that it is done correctly) and pay a welder to do it. The reason I say make sure the prep is done correctly, is that it will actually take longer to do if the professional has to fix your mistakes.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[murf]

less than $150 to get hot dipped Gal
http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo64/murfgq/TrailerTectyl2.jpg
http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo64/murfgq/TrailerTectyl1.jpg
and as you can see it got a very liberal dose of Tectyl 506, heat it up in a water bath and you can spray it without thinning
http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo64/murfgq/TrailerTectyl.jpg

I did find out that chain gets a lot shorter after getting HDG :)

don't forget air holes as well as drain holes for the HDG process, the gal has to get in and if there is an air pocket it wont get in

drill water drain holes where ever water can get into but not escape before getting it HDG

I used the heavier better quality Aussie steel rather than the cheaper Chinese stuff

have fun :)

had to replace a mates rear end of his rusted out trailer very quickly the other afternoon so we could fish again the next morning, you really can see all the design flaws in some trailers a few years on

cheers Murf

[nigelr]

Very nice trailer murf; did you fabricate the crossmembers and and rails or buy them ready-made?

[googarra]

Yeah, me again, agree with what everyone else says.

A few points that I think should be summarised from the entire post.

1) If you are new to welding, dont make this your first project, get help
2) If you are going RHS make sure the ends are open, holes are drilled, and this entire build can be gal dipped properly.
3) Dont skimp on structual size just because the bender can only go up to 50mm
4) If you are going to buy a mig, go 150 amp plus
5) Duragal or painted RHS, doesn't matter, just get it gal dipped anyway
6) If you dont go gal dipped, oil fill the chassis.
7) Keep dimensions the same so that builders plate, if there is one, and VIN can be transfered.

I own seven tandem trailers, up to 3 ton, in a small sideline commercial operation, all were built using second hand axel sets. There is nothing wrong with this, just replace the bearings from the start and check the springs, bushes, and centre pins. My large boat trailer is 970 kg empty using 125 and 150 mm open C channel. I will never build a boat trailer from RHS again. Go for it though, it is a learning experience for you and something to admire and brag that you made.

I prefer to cut and bend over using a pipe bender even though I own a 20 ton electric up to 3 inch pipe or square, just my preference for boat trailers.

The better quality the mig, the better quality the job, particularly if a learner, but you have to justify the expense and need for one, or hire for the day with help. My main welder is a Cebora double pulse 250 amp set on ali and stainless, about the size of a very small carry on bag, but worth $8500.00 My workhorse is a 170 CIG multiprocess worth about $1200. I do play with a lot of boats, profit and pleasure. and still cant jusity this expense, but the Cebora is like a Rolls Royce for the part time partly retired me.

Just go for it and get it gipped

[gazza2006au]

thanks guys i will look at a larger amp mig and yeah i do have some mig welding experience altho i cant stick weld with a cheap stick welder drives me nuts im also yet to find a steel supplier in sydney i will keep looking

[gazza2006au]

ok just been looking at mig welders 150amp+ is out of my budget the best i can do is the italian made 110amp or the hire welder is 130amp ive used the hire welder to weld a cars chassis rail that was cut in half that held and i have also tacked on a skin onto a car both using the hire 130amp mig welder so i think i will have to get the 110amp mig welder

[murf]

Very nice trailer murf; did you fabricate the crossmembers and and rails or buy them ready-made?

all fabricated, took a bit of time bending all the ends but I liked the design. Got the design idea from a known brand that a mate owns and also the HDG place bath was too small for full trailer back then and cost was over $750 to get HDG

I was also told not to use duragal if going to get it HDG

cheers Murf

[weekendfisher]

depending where you are in Sydney there are a few places i use for my metal needs..
You have copper and brass in Seven hills then there is Metal land on the central coast and Silverwater (they actually have a fair few stores around) otherwise Edcon steel have a branch at Revesby and Brookvale.
There is another place at Mascot buti can't remember the name could probably Google it.
That's just a few there are plenty of metal stores around Sydney.
Cheers

[Fed]

Why don't you just buy a new one they're not expensive in the smaller sizes.

[Jarrah Jack]

So do you blank the end of your trailer tubes?

Yep Have to seal them. Can't see the point on washing and tectyling the outside if it can rust from the inside where you can't wash or even see whats happening. Wonder what Murf did with his? He's always a step ahead of me.:)

[gazza2006au]

thanks guys the help is appreciated ;) ive upped my budget a little ill see if i can get a welder tonight looking at 150-200amps

[EdBerg]

That is a good move, I would look at Ebay with the listings that start cheap, occasionally you may find that the highest bidder at the time will not put on a higher bid for whatever reason at the time the auction finishes. Sometimes they are doing something else or they just forget to watch the bidding at the ending time. I picked up the 200A TIG/stick welder for my brother for $225, normally the seller would list it as a $700 welder, so my brother picked up a bargain. He won't use the TIG functions but as a stick welder it is great.

With welders is all about the duty cycles, most of the lower end welders have poor duty cycles so whilst a 150amp welder is classified as such it may only do it for 10% of the time, so if you want to weld at 150 amps you may only be able to do it for 1 minute out of 10 minutes and then you have to stop for the other 9 minutes waiting for the unit to cool down.

Hence my suggestion for a 200amp unit TIG/MMA(the more bells and whistles the better even if you don't use all the features as it will be better made and you just use the MMA part of it) as you will find that you will be able to weld much longer using thicker rods, 2.3mm rods about the 80-90 amps, and 3.2mm rods about the 120 amps, 4mm about 135-180amps. If however you go the MIG route, they don't have much of a duty cycle in the lower range (price and capacity less than 200amps) of equipment. MMA (stick welding) is probably a little bit harder to learn to weld with but it gets a stronger weld for the amps used. This is all based on the welders' experience as if you don't know what you are doing then it doesn't matter what welder you use.

[gazza2006au]

yeah thanks i looked on ebay i only have a $200 budget for the welder the 200AMP models are selling for around $250 plus shipping how much difference is there from a 135AMP to 150AMP mig? i contacted a second hand shop thats in sydney on ebay im waiting for a reply they said they have second hand mig welders for my budget im waiting to see what models they have in stock if its something like a CIG welder ill jump on it i think

[murf]

Yep Have to seal them. Can't see the point on washing and tectyling the outside if it can rust from the inside where you can't wash or even see whats happening. Wonder what Murf did with his? He's always a step ahead of me.:)


in the third pic of all the cross members you can see the tectyl running out on the ground, I filled with slightly warmed Tectyl and swirled them around to fully coat the inside, did the side rails and draw bar too. all bolts were dipped in Tectyl before being put together, looks ugly but I love the stuff, as soon as I see a fraction of rust anywhere I dab Tectyl on it

to see where Andy's trailer had rusted out inside the RHS where the HDG couldn't / didn't get was very concerning. Glad we caught it before the fraser trip in 6 weeks time :)

cheers Murf

[Jarrah Jack]

Glad we caught it before the fraser trip in 6 weeks time :)

cheers Murf

Same time as my Darwin trip...........I might be catching up.:D

[gazza2006au]

guys heres my welder as said before its only a super cheap auto arc/stick welder im not very good at welding with it i also tried using the super cheap auto welding rods do u think i would be better off using this stick welder or buying a mig welder? if i do use the arc welder what are the best and easiest newby welding rods for the 3mm steel? im still keen to buy a mig welder but i have the arc welder on hand

78756787577875878759

[gazza2006au]

ok i ordered a 160amp mig welder im hopping it will be here tomorrow and i just got off the phone to a tube bending company they want $210 to bend 3 tubes :o i also called BOC about hiring a gas tank the guy recommended i use a mix of argon,CO2,oxygen called argon shield light to weld the 3mm RHS steel tubing do u think 4 cubic meters of gas will do the whole trailer? i will do a build along with pics

[EdBerg]

Depending on how well you weld, that bottle would be more than enough to do several trailers, you only would use about 9-10lt/min of gas using MIG and provided your regulator is reasonable and doesn't leak. That gas mix will give you a hotter arc than a straight Ar/Co2 mix, just be aware that a good looking MIG weld bead does not guarantee that the weld is any good. Do some tests pieces first.

Cheers

Ed.

[gazza2006au]

Depending on how well you weld, that bottle would be more than enough to do several trailers, you only would use about 9-10lt/min of gas using MIG and provided your regulator is reasonable and doesn't leak. That gas mix will give you a hotter arc than a straight Ar/Co2 mix, just be aware that a good looking MIG weld bead does not guarantee that the weld is any good. Do some tests pieces first.

Cheers

Ed.
thanks mate do u know the dimensions of the E size gas tank?

[EdBerg]

My supplier is Supagas and their bottles are 4.9m3 they are 200mm wide by 98cm high to the top of the handle, my gas ratio is slightly different, I use a 93%Ar, 5%Co2 and 2%o2. I don't know if your suppliers' bottles are sized different in your mix.

Cheers

Ed.

[gazza2006au]

My supplier is Supagas and their bottles are 4.9m3 they are 200mm wide by 98cm high to the top of the handle, my gas ratio is slightly different, I use a 93%Ar, 5%Co2 and 2%o2. I don't know if your suppliers' bottles are sized different in your mix.

Cheers

Ed.cool thanks

[gazza2006au]

i got my mig welder today and started practicing i will pick up some steel tomorrow im getting a crap load of smoke some times to the point where i cant see my welding i can only use one hand to weld so not so steady and other hand is holding mask

7900379004

[EdBerg]

I take it you are using gasless wire? First thing with welding whether it's MIG,TIG or MMA is to dice the hand held mask and ideally get an auto darkening one especially for TIG, or else if you have blown the budget then at least get a flip top for the MIG. In case you don't already know, it is a real bad idea to keep breathing in that smoke!!

[gazza2006au]

I take it you are using gasless wire? First thing with welding whether it's MIG,TIG or MMA is to dice the hand held mask and ideally get an auto darkening one especially for TIG, or else if you have blown the budget then at least get a flip top for the MIG. In case you don't already know, it is a real bad idea to keep breathing in that smoke!! cheers mate i had planned on ditching the hand held mask i just wasnt sure when i could budget it in im limited on cash at this moment so i think i will order the auto shade mask now and get the steel in a weeks time also about the smoke how can i avoid breathing it in? the smoke is so thick i loose sight of the weld while welding i might use a small fan just hope the spatter doesnt burn the fan

[murf]

what sort of coating is on that steel you are practicing on?

cheers Murf

[fandtm666]

cheers mate i had planned on ditching the hand held mask i just wasnt sure when i could budget it in im limited on cash at this moment so i think i will order the auto shade mask now and get the steel in a weeks time also about the smoke how can i avoid breathing it in? the smoke is so thick i loose sight of the weld while welding i might use a small fan just hope the spatter doesnt burn the fan


FACE MASK with the right canisters on them, you are getting heaps of smoke i bet you are welding a gal coated piece of steel.

[EdBerg]

Hi, Using a MIG gas it wouldn't be a problem, however the gasless wire has to produce the "smoke" so that it can shield the arc from the air, so if the fan is too close then it will blow the protective smoke away and you will have porous and contaminated beads.

You can get 3M face masks that take a flat pancake style filters and will fit behind a helmet, They are fairly expensive though $60-100 or you can position your self so the hot smoke will rise but not into your face and then use the fan to blow it awy from you, as for the actual smoke in the arc area, there is not much you can do about it as that is what happens when you use gasless wire. But check that you don't have a too dark filter in your shield.

Thats the reason I suggested for you get a TIG with MMA(stick) function, and just use the stick part. MIG welding with the Gas bottle rental and the cost of the gas tends to work out fairly expensive unless you have to do a lot of welding. But if you do get the Gas bottle then at least the MIG wire is fairly cheap, not sure what size spool your machine can take but most of the 200amp machines take a 15kg spool which would out about $30-35 a spool of .8mm or .9mm wire, the smaller ones I think can only take a 5kg spool which might be round about the same price.

So at this stage a small fan and repositioning yourself might be your cheapest option. Sorry I can't give you better news.

[gazza2006au]

what sort of coating is on that steel you are practicing on?

cheers Murf hey murf im practicing on the old rusted trailer which is galvanized i have ground it back to bare metal tho


FACE MASK with the right canisters on them, you are getting heaps of smoke i bet you are welding a gal coated piece of steel. thanks yeah its galvanized metal

[EdBerg]

I just read the next post, I didn't realize you are welding Galvanized metal, then you better not be breathing in that white smoke as it is hazardous, I have heard of people dying from breathing it in. Also as you weld on one side the zinc oxidises on the other and will also go into the air. Do it outside with a slight breese blowing it away from you.

[gazza2006au]

Hi, Using a MIG gas it wouldn't be a problem, however the gasless wire has to produce the "smoke" so that it can shield the arc from the air, so if the fan is too close then it will blow the protective smoke away and you will have porous and contaminated beads.

You can get 3M face masks that take a flat pancake style filters and will fit behind a helmet, They are fairly expensive though $60-100 or you can position your self so the hot smoke will rise but not into your face and then use the fan to blow it awy from you, as for the actual smoke in the arc area, there is not much you can do about it as that is what happens when you use gasless wire. But check that you don't have a too dark filter in your shield.

Thats the reason I suggested for you get a TIG with MMA(stick) function, and just use the stick part. MIG welding with the Gas bottle rental and the cost of the gas tends to work out fairly expensive unless you have to do a lot of welding. But if you do get the Gas bottle then at least the MIG wire is fairly cheap, not sure what size spool your machine can take but most of the 200amp machines take a 15kg spool which would out about $30-35 a spool of .8mm or .9mm wire, the smaller ones I think can only take a 5kg spool which might be round about the same price.

So at this stage a small fan and repositioning yourself might be your cheapest option. Sorry I can't give you better news. no worries mate i do have a gas and particle mask i bought for spray painting it cost $100 i have spare filters somewhere or i might buy some more i also just bought a mask http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380405271167?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 i guess when i weld vertical the smoke wont or shouldnt be a problem its just standing over the area being welded welding horizontal and my welder does have MMA which i think is stick welding? but stick welding is much harder than mig

[gazza2006au]

need some opinions on my welding im getting penetration im welding 3mm gal steel RHS in the pics the hole i blue i turned the wire up near max to see what it would do the other welds im welding at 50% volts and 50% wire speed some welds i held the wire over the spot longer then the others im ready to buy the steels but want to see what people think of my welding i got my new auto mask yesterday it helps alot with seeing where im at before starting and also following the weld

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