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Corry
05-04-2012, 05:26 PM
I'll explain the situation first, my old man is giving me his 5m Top Ender, all I gotta do for him is help set a motor up on his 4m Hornet Widebody.
He bought both boats new in around 2008, the 4m currently has a 30hp 2 stroke Merc, same as my Proline Angler.
He is wanting electric start, and we've tossed up that it is $1700 to put electric start on his 2 stroke, so, why don't we put a new motor on it.
We come down to two brands, Honda or Merc, the Honda 30hp 4 stroke is $6800, and the Merc is $6500, so either one doesn't matter.
Weight is one concern, power is the other. From talking to the dealers, one of them said that we should be careful as there is a loss in power as the 4 strokes aren't comparable to the 2 strokes, we kinda knew that, but we're not sure how much power loss we should expect.
It was explained that with a prop change on the Merc, it will improve it somewhat.
I'm after personal experience from those that have either done this, or have 4 strokes on their boats, 30hp only obviously, I don't need to compare bigger outboards to what we're getting, but, I guess if you've done a same hp swap, the power loss might be comparative.
Although pure speed isn't a major concern, a concern is not being able to get it on the plane adequately or not being able get along when there is weight in the boat.
Generally the weight that would be carried is 2 people, and for light fishing or crabbing, occasionally when we take it shooting there is 3 or 4 in the boat, but it is purely transport, but still needs to get up. The 30 Merc 2 stroke is more than perfect at the moment.
Other interesting bits is that the Honda is still carby, where the Merc is EFI. One of the losing things for the Yamaha was that it is 100kg, where these two are only 80, compared to the 53 of the 2 Stroke Merc currently.

So, what is your experiences, which way should we go...
4 Stroke Merc
4 Stroke Honda, or
Elect start the 2 Stroke.

Cheers
Corry

Tickleish
05-04-2012, 05:39 PM
Hey Corry,

I would go the 2stroke with electric start & trim & tilt. In such a small horse power outboard the advantages in a 4 stroke are not worth the extra money and the 30kg weight disadvantage.

A 30hp 2 stroke will plane 4 adults in a 4 metre tinny but a 30 4stroke will not.

nigelr
05-04-2012, 07:15 PM
check out a tohatsu 30 2 stroke for a strong, good value, albeit slightly agricultural, outboard.

Corry
05-04-2012, 08:18 PM
I guess I should add something, if going down the 2 stroke path, we'll be keeping the 30 Merc that is on it as it has very low hours and has been owned since new, we'll just be adding the electric start to it.

Cheers
Corry

geoffmck
05-04-2012, 08:53 PM
If you are looking at buying a new 4 stroke, why not a new 2 stroke?

Adding the electric start option for $1,700 on a used motor seems like a waste of money to me.
You would be better off selling it and buying a new motor with the options you want.
A 30hp Etec would be a much better option.

gazza2006au
05-04-2012, 09:16 PM
if your not to worried about top speed look at the mercury 25hp bigfoot mine has just as much grunt as a 25hp johnson 2 stroke the mercury 25hp bigfoot well the model i have runs the 50hp bigfoot gearbox so it can swing a larger diameter prop or a smaller higher pitched prop it was designed for house boats and barges but works well on tinnies i run mine on a 4.3m quintrex 2 adults 100kg each half throttle planes the boat beautiful 3 adults 100kg each with fishing gear and full tank boat planes at 2/3rd-3/4th throttle and the mercury bigfoot 25hp comes standard with electric start tilt and trim 8-) i have the carb model weighs 78kg

Corry
06-04-2012, 12:12 AM
If you are looking at buying a new 4 stroke, why not a new 2 stroke?

Adding the electric start option for $1,700 on a used motor seems like a waste of money to me.
You would be better off selling it and buying a new motor with the options you want.
A 30hp Etec would be a much better option.

Cause it's a low hours motor that has been bought new, no reason to sell it, they're offering nothing for it for a trade, we know the motor and it runs perfectly. No need to spend the extra coin for a new 2 stroke when we got one already, question is, is it worth going to the four stroke?

Gazza, I'll look into the Bigfoot, thanks for that.

Corry

geoffmck
06-04-2012, 04:17 AM
A direct injection 2 stroke will be a fair step up from your Merc is all I'm saying.

mylestom
06-04-2012, 05:36 AM
Have a Quintrex Explorer Trophy 395 with Honda 30hp for 4 years, it is a very heavy boat with all the casting decks, twin batteries, fuel tank, electric motor and 100 litre livewell, and works ok with the Honda. However initially when looking at two stroke v 4 stroke only considered the Etec on the 2 stroke side as fish impoundments and there is restrictions on one of the dams that I fish on most 2 stroke.

The Honda with a full load had to be repropred to really work properly, as the bog standard prop was a bit of a waste of time. However very happy with motor but still takes a few metres with full load to get out of hole, the Explorer and Hornet trophys are heavy boats, however should do it easy on a widebody Hornet if not overloaded. The Honda is a great motor, very quite and fuel efficient.

netmaker
06-04-2012, 07:25 AM
it could be my accounting background... if you have the option of spending $1700 vs $6500 and the only essential differences will be the noise (good) and weight (bad), i would take option 1. your dad would have to do an awful lot of mileage to make up the savings in fuel. both happy, less dough;D.
cheers

Corry
06-04-2012, 07:45 AM
Good call Geoff, I'll look into them, heard some good and bad stories about the E-Tec's.

Mylestom, great feedback, yeah, the trophy's are a heavy boat, I've got a 395 Proline Angler with casting decks, electric and extra batteries, big difference when I fittedthe electric to how it was previously. It run at 45kph prior to electric and battery, and dropped to 41kph now, drops to 38kph with the missus and the dog on board. Still gets up and goes well enough though.
Any idea what speeds you're getting out of yours, just as a comparison.

Netmaker, know where ya comin from, smoothness and quietness are the main reasons, and if we're gunna spend $1700 on his current motor, figured we should look at options from there. I've gotta give him something for his 5m Top Ender. I'd hate to say money isn't an option, but it's not a consideration on this decisison.

Thanks for the great feedback,
Corry

netmaker
06-04-2012, 09:40 AM
corry. i have a 4.3m brooker and have just fitted new 30 merc 2 stroke. 55lb minn kota up front and 2 deep cycles with a casting deck. am getting 40kph out of her when solo and 36 with a deckie. i got another 2.5 kph out of her by moving the batteries from the front bins to the middle of the boat. definately helps moving the weight back if possible.

Corry
06-04-2012, 10:13 AM
I've got the main battery in the rear, it runs the sounder, nav lights, under deck lights, GPS and power outlets, it used to be a small motorbike battery, but when we put the HDS 10 in, it wouldn't run it for too long, so had to step up to a car battery. The other battery is in the front, but in the rear compartment under the casting deck as far back as possible, it's a 100amp deep cycle for the elec motor, was really surprised how much weight was in the elec set up all up.

Cheers
Corry

mylestom
06-04-2012, 06:45 PM
Cory,

Same boat but just branded Stacer/Quintrex, have 75amp Marine Battery and 120amp Trojan and fuel tank at rear with Tiller steer. With two up and trimmed right about the 22knts. But a bit better with livewell filled (Intake and extra pump at rear). Hope this helps.

Did look at the Etec and ordered one but after having a new boat and trailer sitting in shed for nearly six months and lots of promises when the first 30hp Etec would arrive in Australia. Was very dissappointed and assurances received from Senior Etec Managers in Australia, there promises were a load of shi#, everytime they spoke it was just BS. Would never deal with them again and their products and would not recommend them to anyone either (Personal opinion, but my two bobs worth).

Trev

Bros
06-04-2012, 08:08 PM
Brian getting soft in his old age, I know the feeling.

joey_1987
07-04-2012, 11:31 AM
I own a Mariner 30hp (same engine you have) in manual start spec. I was pricing these brand new not long ago and found the difference between a 30hp manual start and 30hp electric start was about $600-$700. $1700 for a conversion to electric start is pretty rich I think because I just googled "Tohatsu 30hp electric starter kit" and up came one option where you can buy the complete kit from USA for about $520USD (maybe add 60-80 for shipping) and then you could pay someone to fit it, not sure how many hours labor would be required, or you could DIY if you have the know-how. I'd like to see the breakdown of the $1700 in terms of parts/labor.
The other point I would make is that if you're considering going down the EFI 4s or DI 2s path then you have a lot of factors-extra weight as the Merc 30hp has one of the best power:weight ratios of any 30hp, increased servicing cost/harder to DIY especially troubleshoot (carby 2s so easy), and you will inevitably lose 'out of the hole' performance because you're adding at least 25kg extra weight aft. Weigh this against the PT&T which would make life easier than manually tilting, easier starting with EFI, much quieter, less vibration (especially when trolling), better on fuel at slow speeds but towards mid-high range RPM 2-3L/hr not much difference.
In considering your factors you could then make a decision. If you're happy with the 30hp 2s thus far and just need the electric start, then do that. If spending $5000+ would make your boating experience that much more enjoyable and you weren't always thinking 'was it really worth so much?' then one of the newer-tech outboards would be for you.
Just my 2c.

Corry
08-04-2012, 09:04 PM
I can see where you're coming from Joey, it'd be interesting for someone else to contact their Merc/Mariner dealer and see what they get quoted for fitting the elec start to it.
The upgrade is for the old man in exchange for his boat, I think we're going for the Merc 4 stroke for him, he'd be much better off with the elec t/t and start.
Cheers for all the advice,

Corry

gazza2006au
08-04-2012, 09:18 PM
Corry mercury's 30hp is a bigfoot u will love it tilt and trim plus electric start are standard on the bigfoot models

Corry
12-05-2012, 02:14 PM
Well, figured I'd give an update.
Got the 30 Merc 4st motor fitted for the old man, kept the original prop to see how it goes before getting another one,
He's had it out a couple of times and loves it. Reckons the power isn't that much different to the 2 stroke, and is very happy with the quietness, consumption, and fit.
He down at Corio chasing Barra at the moment so I haven't been able to get a run in it, guess I'll have to wait till he gets back.

Thanx to all for their advice,
Corry

Goodoo haven
12-05-2012, 03:32 PM
There is another 2 stroke option same as Etec, but I believe myself as been better. That is Tohatsu TLDI. They are a brilliant motor.