4S Motors 50HP - Which is best?

[Splash]

OK.

I have not yet committed any funds on the Honda BF50 for my new 4.1m polycraft, but want to buy a new motor very shortly.

Your opinions on which motor is best for noise, fuel economy, weight to power ratio and reliability - Yamie, Zuke or Honda?

Bare hull weight 300kg.



SPlash

[davo]

Excluding the reliability issues. Honda would be last because they are have the smallest block engine of the group. The others are approx 150cc larger engine blocks and would have much more torque. I have the F60 Yamaha on a 4.8 metre oplate alloy boat. The 50HP is the same engine. That would be my recommendation.

[LittleSkipper]

Gidday Splash!

I'm assuming your still interested in the Tiller Steer model outboards? Check out BoatPoint for comparisons.

[nickstock]

I have had both the honda and yammy in 50hp on similar boats. I prefered the Yammy. I had a bit of trouble with the Honda but it was an ex pro motor and did have nearly 3000 hours on it so I can't complain.

[nickstock]

It is a pitty you weren't looking at a 60 as the new 60 Hondas and Suzi's are pretty darn good in the 60

[Splash]

I have read your previous posts and taken them on board.

Consequently, I have decided to retain the side console and stay with remote.

I was set on Honda, but last few days thinking elsewhere.

Unfortuantely, I cannot go higher than 50HP - (max HP rating on hull).

I also see that the Honda 50HP is lightest in it's class at 98kg.

But, as highlighted - it also has the smallest block - which is a very telling point I will be investigating further...

Is the extra 150CC worth the extra weight penalty for the Yamie (110kg) for use on a 4.1m Polycraft???


Splash

[joey_1987]

Without starting a big massive debate, have you considered DI 2s? One I would suggest is the Tohatsu TLDI 50, here's a review of it, http://boatpoint.com.au/engine-reviews/2000/tohatsu-tldi-50-8163. The review is 12 years old but the engine hasn't really changed except for now being a 3 star engine. Is the lightest of them all, will have 2 stroke get up and go. Otherwise go with the motor that best suits your wants and needs, price them all and work out where you will have them serviced. You can't go too far wrong with most engines these days, just thought I would mention the TLDI in case you hadn't heard of it, they usually are a fair bit cheaper too.

[Splash]

Thanks Joey,

Not really wanting to go 2S anymore.

4S all the way..


Splash

[joey_1987]

Normal 2s and DI 2s are a very different beast. Just thought I would make mention of them as they may work out a fair bit cheaper and could suit your needs. Each to their own though and go with what you best like :).

[Dan5]

Yamaha 4cyl is where the extra 12kg comes into it..........much smoother trolling IMO they also have a reputable local dealer and their very popular so re-sale would be an advantage......

[Splash]

Thanks Dan,

Is the extra weight penalty worth hauling around on such a small boat?

Splash

[Dan5]

The weight is not an issue imo.......12kg is one decent Barra.......or 2 normal fish.......really mate it's not worth losing any sleep over.......compare the price aswell as the yammy is usually cheaper.......how much for the Honda?

Dan

[Squidlet]

Yamaha 4cyl is where the extra 12kg comes into it..........much smoother trolling IMO they also have a reputable local dealer and their very popular so re-sale would be an advantage......

In and out ya pocket would not give them the steam of my piss!!!!

[Splash]

Dan, $11kish for the HOnda.

Squidlet - WHy don't you like Yamie?

WHich donk do you like and why?

Splash

[stevemid]

I've been shopping for two motors for a cat I'm building and was also only looking at 4 strokes. However Joey's comment above had me take a look at the review. Then I did a search for the price: Two dealers showing $6799. That's 13,600 for two vs. 11,500 for one BF50. It does get ya thinkin.

[Dan5]

In and out ya pocket would not give them the steam of my piss!!!!


Yeah maybe but better than the honda dealer up here,

Splash you could try pricing the Yammie first........proberbly just over 8k from memory........the 70 was 10.5k.

[Splash]

...Then I did a search for the price: Two dealers showing $6799. That's 13,600 for two vs. 11,500 for one BF50. It does get ya thinkin.

So, why is the Honda so damn more expensive when compared to the yamie and yeat the HOnda has 1 less cylinder!!!!??

SPlash

[Splash]

Yeah maybe but better than the honda dealer up here,

Splash you could try pricing the Yammie first........proberbly just over 8k from memory........the 70 was 10.5k.


I agree - I am really thinking after sales service will be a major factor in my decision, and I think Yamie will win this battle of better after sales service..

I am waiting on a price form the yamie dealer tomorrow.

Is IOMarine the yami dealer you are referring to Dan?

Splash

[Kondo 1]

Cant bag the Honda, I haven't had one of the 50's but the Honda I did own was faultless....

I have had the 50 yammie and it is a nice motor - personnally dont think you can go wrong with either of these.

BUT if I were you I would give consideration to talking to a Marine Surveyor as I did to see if you can go up a size or 2, its not expensive and I managed to go from 50 to a 70 yamaha. The difference is night and day. I still feel that even at max power in mid size boats (especially heavy for their length) 4 strokes do lack punch getting them going... Personally if it were me then I would talk to the surveyor and if possible to go to a 60 I would, and if you were considering the 60's I think the decision gets harder between the yammie and the honda.

[chris69]

For me it would be a choice between the suzy or yami i have a suzy DF50 and the newer ones have more ccs now so better but my decideing choice was because of the chain drive verses belt drive its just one less thing to do at a serves when its time for it.

[Splash]

Kondo, I will give this a thought.

Chris - which one has the chain drive and which has the belt drive?

Is the belt drive more reliable?


SPlash

[Kondo 1]

GDay Splash, honestly I cant say if it can be done to the poly or not but if you want the surveyors details PM me.

[Squidlet]

Dan, $11kish for the HOnda.

Squidlet - WHy don't you like Yamie?

WHich donk do you like and why?

Splash

Na mate Yammy are a bloody great motor!!! just had a bad experience with that particular mob,basically they treat ya like shit!! if you want it buy it,if not dont waste our time attitude! For after purchase sevice up here i would be looking at a Suzi!! "Quality Marine"
Cheers Chris.

[Splash]

ok Kondo - your PM box is full and I cannot send any PM's. Can you PM me?

Now - here are the important specs:

Suzy - 941 cc, 2.27:1, 104kg, 3 cylinders DOHC 12-Valve

Yamie - 996 cc, 1.85:1, 110kg, 4 cylinders SOHC in-line 4

What is the disadvantage of the less gearbox ratio for the yamie?

Which one would best be suited to my applciation?


SPlash

[Kondo 1]

ok Kondo - your PM box is full and I cannot send any PM's. Can you PM me?

Now - here are the important specs:

Suzy - 941 cc, 2.27:1, 104kg, 3 cylinders DOHC 12-Valve

Yamie - 996 cc, 1.85:1, 110kg, 4 cylinders SOHC in-line 4

What is the disadvantage of the less gearbox ratio for the yamie?

Which one would best be suited to my applciation?


SPlash

Gday Splash, Fixed the problem - fixed up my subscription that lapsed yesterday sorry mate.

[chris69]

Slpash the suzy has the chain drive auto tentioner and as far as gear ratio goes the 2.27:1 it will hold the boat at a better cruising speed easyer,if you wont to go flat out every were at max revs the 1.85:1 will get you a better top end ,there might be a few knots midrange and top end in it,but any 50hp on a 4.1 you will be flying anyway.

[Spaniard_King]

Splash,

go for the engine that will suite your needs.

are you going to need NMEA data down the track. What engine has the latest technology?

I doubt you will see the diffrence in idle mfrom 3-4 cyl

check out the safety features on them..... may save you from damaging the engine

probly the biggest thing is what dealer gives you the best gut feeling

Also if price is an issue, there is no need for questions is there.

[Splash]

thanks garry.

price is not an issue.

Some great perspective.

What are the safety features on the Honda that the Yami and Suzy do not have?

NMEA data could be useful for my applciation..


SPlash

[Kondo 1]

Gday Splash - now cant get through to you with your PM's being full :)

[Splash]

Kondo - can you resend your PM?

SPlash

[hellfish]

Just out of intrest Garry, dose honda specify a replacement interval/lifetime for the timing chain on the 50 and 60?

[Splash]

Thanks Chris!

Would you prefer the greater CC's (with smaller gearbox) over the smaller CC's (with the larger gearbox)?

SPlash

[Spaniard_King]

Just out of intrest Garry, dose honda specify a replacement interval/lifetime for the timing chain on the 50 and 60?

on the 50 and 60 it's a timing belt and no period is given for the belt replacement. If the belt is kept clean normal life time is 2-3000 hrs. takes an hour to change a belt and they cost $91.78

[Spaniard_King]

Splash,

i cant vouch for yamaha or suzuki but for the main alarm low oil pressure or overheat if they get to critical levels the engine will shut down. the operator will be informed of an issue then the situation is monitored and if the situation gets to the critical point it will shut down preventing any damage. On all other alarms the engine can be driven but you can expect greater fuel usage.

Honda has very few electrical issues I would almost say your unlucky if you ever have one and they are usually because of poor fitup of the engine

[Dan5]

Clear out your inbox Splash

[Splash]

THanks Garry for that input.

Dan - my Inbox now has space cleared fo ryou.

SPlash

[For Steve]

It's bloody hard to go past a Honda BF50, especially if you plan on keeping your boat for a while and enjoying it. And you know where to go to get it serviced properly.

[chris69]

Hi Splash for me the extra ccs dont mean much and there is less drag with the smaller gear box i have a suzuki and luv it and bought it on its reputation and being able to hand start it on a low battery and the chain cam drive and also the gearing to maintaine a good cruiseing speed and lower speeds while keeping the boat on the the plane while chaseing tuna with a bigger diamiter prop,if i was doing a lot of dam trolling you cant go past the yami with the ajustable trolling speeds its just a case of horses for causes right now i would choose one that was the best price and whats closest for servicing.

[Splash]

for steve - honda was appealing for me, but i am changing my mind purely based on the local service 'provided'.

chris69 - what advantage does the chain cam drive have? How does the yami have adjustable trolling speeds?

What motor is best suited to fishing the NT river system?

SPlash