Building 23' catamaran. Build updates [Archive] - Ausfish fishing Australia, Australian Angling Forums

Crocodile

16-02-2012, 08:47 AM

Clonoid

16-02-2012, 08:54 AM

The problem is this continual growth in expectation which automatically happens when you look at a 50 after looking at a 40, the 40 never looks as good again (and so on etc.)

Yes fair enough, shooters call it "calibre creep" ending up looking at elephant guns to shoot rabbits ! Not knowing much about cats it's easy to assume a 23' needs a fair bit of motor to push it along.
Since the F70 came out with such a weight advantage over it's competition I've been hoping to see some lighter 4 strokes in the smaller end of the range. A 70kg 4 stroke 30hp would be sweet for my Sandy Strait.

stevemid

17-02-2012, 11:38 AM

Hello Stevemid,

Congratulations on the project, I bet you took a deep breath.

To help with the motor choice I would ask the following;
Where and how do you intend to use the boat?
eg. will you be crossing bars? travelling long distances?
What sort of loads will you be carrying?
The smaller motors may struggle to lift the heavily loaded boat onto the plane.
How important is speed to you? or is an easy 18 knot cruise more important.

After looking at the website I would offer the following comment, the hulls really do flatten down aft. My Webster Twinfisher is very similar and if I drive at lower speeds( 14-18 knots) and keep the flat aft sections in the water the ride is very good, but if I drive fast enough to lift the falt stern sections out the water she does pound on the flat sections. This only happens in bigger waves that actually lift the whole hull.
By comparison the Noosa cats and Kevlacats carry the deep V all the way aft.

The fuel capacity is very low at 150 litres.
If you add more tankage be very careful about upsetting the fore and aft trim.

The bridgedeck clearance of 430mm is very interesting, most cats that size have the tunnel almost touching the water at rest. If your boat does in fact sit high it may be sensitive to trim fore and aft when at rest, because most cats have the tunnel in contact with the water which stiffens them up fore and aft and prevents pitching.

The displacement figure seems very optimistic at 1200kgs.
It may weigh that empty but add motors, batteries, fuel, passengers, esky full of ice, snapper leads etc. I would expect a loaded weight well over that.
For example a similar Kevlacat has a dry weight of about 1400kgs empty.
Motors 180 kgs
Batteries 30 kgs
Fuel 100 kgs (150 lt = about 100 kgs)
Passengers 300 kgs
Esky full of ice 40 kgs ???
Snapper leads 10 kgs ???
Tools 10 kgs ???
Which adds up to 650kgs approximately.
As you can see actual displacement = boat + load may be quite a bit more than 1200kgs.

Did you go for a test drive before purchasing?
If so how did it perform?

Crocodile, thanks very much for putting the thought into your reply.

Usage: Id say this boat will spend most of its time in Sydney Harbour being used for cruising/camping/fishing, venturing further off shore as I gain experience with this type of boat (heaps of sailing off shore previously.) There’ll be many trips up to Broken Bay (15 NM north, no bars to cross) I’ll probably do a couple trips per year trailering up the NSW coast, and 1 trip per year to Qld to fish inside the reef and on the reef. Hopefully, this would involve anchoring out at the reef for a week or so at a time.

Your comments regarding weight are right on. The designer’s estimate of weights include two categories: Lightship weight retains only enough fuel and water for basic operations, nothing else. So the 1200 kg includes the fitout only: motors, tankage, batteries, fridge, cooker, electrics, wiring, etc. Payload includes everyhing else that you bring on the boat, this he estimated to be 500kg to achieve the estimated performance. My payload estimate (not including ice)
2 Crew 80
Water 100
Fuel (2X60) 85
Food & bev 50
Personal gear 30
Total: 345

For me, comfort and economy outvote speed. I’ve been thinking that if I were able to get 17 knots cruising at 4000 RPM the BF 40’s would be draining about 5.5 L/hr. On 60 L tanks that would give me a max range of 185 nm (This would get me to the Swains and most of the way back :) I could double my fuel to 240 L, the weight would go up another 85 KG and max range to 370 (less the penalty for the extra weight.) Do people carry spare fuel in Jerry cans?

I did not get a test drive as there were only two other boats under construction at the time I was thinking about this. One has now been launched has twin 60hp Suzuki’s on it and he said he achieved 29knots WOT - The Suzukies weigh in at 163Kg each as opposed to about 100 Kg for the the Hondas 40’s which were put on the 2nd boat built but not yet launched. The one thing about composite boats is that they are built light and they have to stay light to perform. They cannot become a home for everything everybody and anybody “might” need. Thus the engine choice includes weight, fuel economy at cruise and fitness for purpose. For me going through this thought process now in more detail, smaller might just be better.

Again, Crocodile, thanks for provoking the thinking. Anything flakey in the above? What about jerry cans? (I knew there was something I liked about diesel!)

Crocodile

17-02-2012, 10:34 PM

Hello Stevemid,
If you are going to cruise the NSW coast you will be crossing plenty of bars.
My thoughts are that you can never have too much power when crossing a bar.

Have a look at these Honda websites;
http://marine.honda.com/pdf/props/Alumacraft%20Classic%20165%20Tiller%20-%20BF40%20EFI.pdf
http://marine.honda.com.au/Fuel_Consumption_Reports

If you are buying 40's you might as well get 50's for the same weight and very little
extra $$$$.
A 50 at 4000 rpm uses between 7.5 to 10 l/hr.
That is about 30hp being produced. A 4 stroke about produces about 12 hp for every gallon
used, look at the bulletins and see for yourself.
60 hp (at cruise settings) is not very much to push a boat of that size and weight.
Two 50's will use a total of about 18 lt/hr (at cruise settings) which when drinking from
120 litres is an endurance of 6.7 hours X 18 knots = 120 nautical miles with no reserves.
If you mean the Swains off Gladstone, they are about 150nm NE of Gladstone = 300nm return.
I would want a 50% margin for error/ bad weather etc. That's 450nm of range, which is a
lot of petrol, your boat when loaded with that much petrol may not be able to plane.
Also that much petrol in jerries would make me very nervous, built in tanks are a much
better idea.

Your weight table is again a bit optimistic.
Two persons weigh 170 not 85. I think you would benefit from doing a very rigorous tally of all the items that you will put on the boat. You may be surprised what it all adds up to.
Check that the existing boats are carrying that sort of load.
I know that the composite boats are extremely light, but that is only the structure.
All boats still need motors, batteries, petrol, steering, anchors + chain + winch, hand
rails, furniture, bunk mattresses, toilet + holding tank, water, tools, spare prop,
electronics, glass windows, fishing tackle, snorkeling gear, not to mention XXXX beer.
Was the completed boat loaded or was it "artificially" light?.

For mine I would be chasing a run in the completed boat and bringing plenty of ballast, human or otherwise, to simulate a well loaded boat.
I would be paying special attention to its behaviour at medium speeds of around 15 to 20 knots.
I am not trying to be pessimistic only conservative and rigorous.

There is nothing worse than a sluggish speedboat that needs to run the motors at max rpm at all times.

stevemid

24-02-2012, 07:03 AM

I got my kit delivered today. The kit includes 54 2.4M X 1.2M (4’X8’) panels; 37 make up the shell of the boat; there are 9 bulkhead panels and 7 furniture panels. A Panel consists of an inner core of lightweight balsa encased in a layer or two of fibreglass. A computer controlled router very accurately cuts out the parts of the boat from these panels prior to shipment. The panels are manufactured so that the can be joined together along the long edge, and therefore components of any length can be precut.

GBC

24-02-2012, 08:16 AM

Someone's going to be busier than a one armed wallpaper hanger with crabs.......I hope she's everything you want.

Humdinger

24-02-2012, 08:22 AM

Looks a good thing 2x60hp or 2x70hp would be nice,how do you get the builers plate to regester it being a over seas kit???? out of interest.

you don't need a builders plate unless you are going to sell it . and to my understanding it can be signed by the builder

julian1

24-02-2012, 10:30 AM

not sure where your getting the Suzuki DF60 weight from ? the new lean burn model is only 102kg's

stevemid

24-02-2012, 08:09 PM

not sure where your getting the Suzuki DF60 weight from ? the new lean burn model is only 102kg's
You are absolutely correct! I was putting together a spreadsheet of 40-50-60hp 4 strokes for comparisons. I don't know where I pulled that figure from. But my apologies to anyone I've misled. Julian1, thanks.

stevemid

24-02-2012, 08:15 PM

Waiting for my fibreglass and high density filler to be drop shipped from FGI…..I built a stand today for the 200L drum of resin. ATL wanted $184 for their stand but I paid considerably less ($25). The problem was how to get a 270kg (523 lbs) drum on to the stand!8-)

cormorant

24-02-2012, 11:33 PM

I'm going to enjoy this build.

Couple of things . Insurers hate bulk resins and flamables . Just check you are covered. I can't see a

Buy and use digital scales ( in a plastc bag) for all resin measurements and weigh straight into mixing container as you tap the 44. If it starts geting cold keep resins warm for consistant mixes. Use chaep kitchen timer so it will countdown to when a mix is past it's best.

Keep or make a seat box mold or someething non strutural from the beginning so everytime you have some leftover mix and offcut cloth you have somewhere to put it and not waste it. Use it to re-enforce areas of smaller molds.Have a fan blowing fumes and "glue"powders/ fibres away from you .

And one the wife will never let me forget - before you start seal the concrete floor as resin and other stains are permanent.
Last one - fumes from the chemicals make your skin very sun sensitive so beware of sunshine after working.

I stil haven't worked out if you have to champher ( speling) andy non 90 deg joints before you start?
How much buoyancy foam will it need and is there already places for it?

Can't wait to see the jig setup ( laser leveled ) and work started .

stevemid

25-02-2012, 05:23 AM

I'm going to enjoy this build.

Couple of things . Insurers hate bulk resins and flamables . Just check you are covered. Done, but haven't heard back yet. I thought this was going to be a problem

Buy and use digital scales Done, although West supplies smaller decanting jugs for resin and hardeners with metered pumps that dispense the correct ratio.

Use chaep kitchen timer so it will countdown to when a mix is past it's best. Good idea!

Keep or make a seat box mold or someething non strutural from the beginning so everytime you have some leftover mix and offcut cloth you have somewhere to put it and not waste it. Use it to re-enforce areas of smaller molds.Have a fan blowing fumes and "glue"powders/ fibres away from you . Really good idea

And one the wife will never let me forget - before you start seal the concrete floor as resin and other stains are permanent. What to seal the floor with? I was thinking of laying down construction grade plastic, but that will be slippery.

Last one - fumes from the chemicals make your skin very sun sensitive so beware of sunshine after working. Didn't know that. I did work at McConaghy Boats for 6 months or so to learn the basics, safety etc.

I stil haven't worked out if you have to champher ( speling) andy non 90 deg joints before you start? I think I know what you are asking. I'll attach a picture

How much buoyancy foam will it need and is there already places for it? Everything that the boat is made of is panels that are sealed, encapsulated balsa; like the Titanic, you can't sink it.;D

Thanks for the many many good suggestions here. Thanks!

stevemid

10-03-2012, 07:42 AM

Build Update: I finished gluing the last of the panels today. Hurrah my first milestone! This is a picture of the panels stacked all over the shed. So far I've only worked a total of 11 days on the panels so far. I can glue 9 panels at a time but because I am working alone, I can't lift (stand up) 9 panels. So I glue one day then cut out major components, and stand them up against the wall the next and drag the completed lot to the left and add as many more panels as I can, This usually means working a long day (8 hrs) followed by a short day (3 hrs). So not counting trips to Bunnings, etc. I'd say I have about 58 hours invested in actual boat building so far.

One picture shows the detail of the clamping system for the zjoins. The join itself is only about 12mm on opposite sides of the panel in the form of a "Z." however the edges are finely machined for a great fit. I'm using 70mm pine battens for clamping with 45mm MDF screws spaced every 150mm assembled build jig. The screws go straight through the join and will have to be filled. The clamping system works a treat and there will be little fairing along the join lines.

I must say the quality of the product from ATL Composites in Brisbane has been excellent. Several of the panels did have the joins and the routering out of sync, however, they shipped 4 replacement panels the next day along with 5L of resin for my trouble. That is service!.

top_deck69

10-03-2012, 06:00 PM

stevemid

11-03-2012, 08:59 AM

Hi Steve,
Only just started following your thread. Good to see you've got all your panels glued up
I'm not sure if in your research you came across the following site. http://buildacat.com/bblog.html

I highly recommend you read the parts on outglassing and how to eliminate any issues with a little planning. I don't want to put a dampener on your project just trying to help out a little

I have no relation or knowledge of the CAT being built other than what has been posted on the website.

Hope to see many more updates
Regards
Ben

Hi Ben, Yes, as a frequent sailor up the coast in winter I have followed our friend from the Coastal Passage in his building process. Probably more when I was dreaming about building than for practical advice as a work-in-progress builder. Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely go back and read up on his outgassing issues.

Steve

Jarrah Jack

11-03-2012, 09:45 AM

Amazing Steve, I'll really appreciate reading this thread. Handy you're got such a good shed. What sort of resin are you using, it looks to me like west system. I've used gallons of the stuff in my furniture manufacturing.

stevemid

11-03-2012, 04:10 PM

Nathan Tuskes

11-03-2012, 09:58 PM

great build thread so far. From my rebuild i can definitely say some of thethings that are said above are very true. buy the biggest industrial fan youcan to help with airflow in your shed anything to remove filler dust and fumesis great when your not masked up. Be conservative when you first start offmixing fillers etc, when your at the end of your build you’ll get to within50mls+mixed up in one hit, hit sure saves time and money on wastage, their surewas a bit when i first started to get use to setting times and amounts.

stevemid

12-03-2012, 07:37 AM

Hi Nathan,
Yep, I was surprised how fast the "slow" hardener was going off. I was mixing 100 ml resin batches and it was going off in 18 minutes.(32 degree day) I quickly learned to spread out the mix in a 35 cm square tray lined w poly. also hanging out for winter and cooler temps). I read that West System have a Tropical hardener which must be really slow. infind the high density glue powders the most irritating. Always use the Sundstrom air and particle mask when mixing that. So far I've only been mixing small batches and gluing two panel edges at a time. I've had a couple household fans going for that.

chris69

12-03-2012, 10:02 AM

stevemid

15-03-2012, 05:55 PM

Hi there Steve just put your measured amount of epoxy your going to use for a mix in the freezer for 5 mins but put the container in a bag and this willl help,if im doing bigger mixes of epoxy im putting a 4lt container in the freezer for a hour and then i keep it in a esky and im also useing aluminium roasting trays to transfer heat ive been mixing 1.2lt brews ok in 29c ok you just have to work fast use a roller to get it out quicker,when mixing cool epoxy just mix it for a bit longer,it looks lokie a good kit to build the endgrain balsa will be good to work with,and also the outgassing you just have to pre wet and let it soak in and you can let it go tacky and then chemicaly bond the sheating and fillets of bog,and when mixing the bog filler spread it out around you container and get it out quick so it dosent go thermal on you.

Hi Chris,
I do have a fridge at the shed so I'll give that a try. For now, in the early stages the jobs lend themselves to doing things in small batches. Even when I start assembling the hulls (upside down on the build jig) I can glue and cove one chine at a time. The fun will start when I have to apply dbl bias over an entire hull. Leading up to that I'll experiment with the fridge.

On the outgassing issue, lots of designers use the composite sheets from ATL. My designer, Craig Schionning of Spirited Designs said that ATL do recommend sealing the exterior of their panels. He has never run into the outgassing issue but then he recommends the following 5 stage sealing process:
2 squeegee coats of West System resin on the panels before assembly, and then, after assembly:
1 coat of bog and fairing
1 squeegee of West
HB primer, then
Paint system

Cheers,
Steve

stevemid

05-04-2012, 07:51 PM

It's been a while since I posted an update so I'll get busy. After gluing up all the panels, I cut out the components that make up the hulls. Everything else I stored in as large a pieces as I could. The first step for the hull components was to fill the screw holes from the clamping process then squeegee on two coats of epoxy. The 75mm margin which was not sealed will be sealed when this part is joined to another part of the hull. It would be easy enough to squeegee the whole part but then you end up with a shiny hard surface that doesn’t bond easily to its neighbor and since it gets coated in the joining process, it’s easier to leave it raw.

786417864278643

stevemid

05-04-2012, 08:03 PM

After prepping the components, my next step was to assemble the build frames. I had a bit of too'ing and fro'ing with this. The shed is 7.3M deep and 13M wide. The boat is 7M but the build frames are 7.5 M. I tried this diagonally in the shed and ended up deciding that straight in was best. However, not without compromises.

The picture of the build frame shows the "deadrise issue" with a cat is a non issue. Effectively the dead rise from hull to hull is "0" leaving a very stable platform at rest. At the bows the hulls are very fine leaving a very fine entry and (hopefully) no slamming.

stevemid

05-04-2012, 08:09 PM

Today I finished getting the build frames square and level. I used a water level. In the first picture you see the main deal: an upside down 1.5L coke bottle with a bung in the neck through which passes one end of a 20M plastic tube. Since I believe in better living through chemistry, I added some dishwasher rinse agent (lubricates the insides of the tube) and food colouring to the water (to help my tired eyes.)

The bottoms of all my frames are designed as a common level point. Since it is difficult for persons of a certain age to get down to the floor, I measured up about 1.2M (4 ft.) all the way around on each frame. I used the device in the second picture to make sure all my marks were exactly the same distance off the bottom of each frame.

Next I went around to each station with the end of the tube to find my “highest point.” Once that was found, I set the reservoir on that point so that its level matched the mark on that station. Then it was just a matter of taking the tube around to each station and shimming the station up to match the reference point (pic 3.)

Actually this sounds easier than it was because changing one point alters everything it is attached to. (for example changing a station to make it square with the spine also changes its level, and change one end of a station alters the position of the other side of that station. It took me a couple days to get it right. Now I’ll let it set for a day or so and check again. Once it is stable and completely level and square, I’ll epoxy each part of the frame to the cement floor.

rando

06-04-2012, 09:54 AM

Clever solution,
Congratulations.
Very enjoyable read,and i look forward to following your build, thanks very much for sharing the adventure.

stevemid

18-04-2012, 08:29 PM

Progress Report

All the hull panels have been dry fitted to the frames. A little argy-bargy at the bow to work out where the panels all come together...A few gaps to fill....A bit of grinding here and there. At the end of it we're ready to start bogging and glassing the chines. Very satisfying to see the boat start to take shape.

HH565L

20-04-2012, 03:03 PM

I've been following from day 1 and intend to stay tuned until completion. Hope you don't mind ;D

I take my hat off to you for taking on a project of this nature and look forward to watching this evolve from a stack of sheet to finished boat.

Thanks for sharing.

stevemid

20-04-2012, 08:10 PM

Once we had all the hull panels “dry fitted” the side panels came off again so we could fillet and fiberglass each of the chines (where flat panels come together.) Recall that the boat is being build upside down, on a set of frames. At some point the hull needs to be taken off the frames and rolled right side up. However, to do that, there needs to be enough strength in the hull structure to take a good roll. That means it has to be glued on the inside and the outside. For the inside, the chines have to be glued in the sections between each frame and once the boat is turned over and the frames removed, the job completed. The outside is next; that is the easy part: no scrunching down working above your head with epoxy falling in your hair.

The last picture shows the cuts we had to put into the front of the hull side panel to get the panel to curve in to form the pointy end of the bow. Once we had it dry fitted, it came off so we could glass the chines on the inside of the boat. Before it went back on we filled the cuts with thickened epoxy (this will help the panel keep its shape) before reattaching the side panel and forcing it back into position.

chris69

21-04-2012, 01:33 PM

Looking good there Steve the old water level is a good thing,gee theres a bit of work in that jig and that end grain balsa looks alright,atleast it will be light to turn over,cheers Chris.

stevemid

21-04-2012, 02:38 PM

Hi Chris, Yes, I haven't decided yet how to turn the thing. I have height restrictions that prevent me from lifting the hull off the frames. I'm thinking I could jack or lift up the hull off the frames, then cut the frames out from underneath with a chain saw or other. Once the frames are out I can assess the weight and gather enough men to walk it out the door to turn it on the grass and then walk it back in. I'm going to install the transom when beforehand so that plus a cross frame in the middle should be enough to stabilise the hull for the turning. Option two is to put sleds underneath the frames, drag it out of the shed with a 4WD, then I could turn it with the frames in it, then remove the frames and carry it back in.

stevemid

06-05-2012, 02:57 PM

In the couple weeks since my last post we finishing taping the external chines on the boat. Here is the result.

7964879649796507965179653

chris69

06-05-2012, 08:32 PM

Thas looking real good steve you have been flying on this boat seeing the endgrain balsa gives me a tingle down my spin way stronger than foam core in compression strenght thats going to be one tuff boat,cheers Chris.

stevemid

07-05-2012, 08:24 PM

Thanks Chris, we're putting on a layer of 400 DB glass over the whole of the underwater section, then fairing and antifoul. Then the turning party.....Can't wait.

cormorant

08-05-2012, 10:33 AM

Did you see the turning rings in the afloat mag. Thought of you when I read the add if you have a space outside the shed. I haven't seen em but would be interested to see a photo if you had a look.

Love teh progress on the build.

The Woo

08-05-2012, 11:37 AM

Looking great!
I too have been keeping a close eye on your progress.
As you say, it must be satisfying to see a "boat" appear from flat panels.

stevemid

11-05-2012, 07:30 AM

I'm going to look in the on-line Afloat web site. Turning rings sounds like just what the doctor ordered!.

Steve

stevemid

11-05-2012, 07:46 AM

Today we put in a full length re-inforcement layer of fibreglass over then underwater section of each hull. For the techo's this is 400g/sqm double bias glass. The glass is laid on dry and then wetted out with resin. It is then rolled with a steel roller to get out all the air bubbles and ensure 100% contact with the surface. Once fully wetted out, the glass goes clear as you can see in the first picture. In the last picture, we've put a layer of 'peel ply' over the wet-out glass. Peel ply is a nylon taffeta material which epoxy doesn't stick to when it dries. The peel ply draws the excess resin to itself, covers up the coarse weave of the fibreglass, and creates a beautiful surface once it is 'peeled' off.

798817988279883

stevemid

24-05-2012, 04:57 PM

I built the transom for the boat this week. The transom consists of 3, 10mm duflex bulkhead panels glued together and then further reinforced around the cutout for the walk-through, and the cutout for the tunnel between the hulls

The first picture shows the 3 bulkheads glued together to form the transom. I screwed through the 3 layers into backing blocks on the opposite side. Then after everything was cured, patch all the screw holes.

The next pictures show the walk-through of the transom routed out to accept reinforcing. This involves replacing 5mm of the balsa “core” with uni glass. The two following pictures show how unidirectional fibreglass is wetted out and rolled up to create 3 reinforcing “sausages.” There are three of these under the walkthrough and 3 over the tunnel.

The last pictures show the sausages laid in the transom and then clamped to squeeze out excess resin and hold the sausages in the tracks while they cure (herding cats comes to mind.) In one of the last pictures the transom is actually standing the right way up, if you look closely, you can see the reinforcing already done for the over-tunnel bit. The final picture show the final look of the reinforcing. The sausages turned black because I used a black marker to draw cutting lines on the fibreglass.

Chimo

24-05-2012, 07:14 PM

Damn fine work! Really enjoying your progress with it.

Cheers
Chimo

captain rednut

24-05-2012, 08:42 PM

you are keeping me well educated and im enjoying your thread, great job and ill keep watching.
cheers Jim

chris69

24-05-2012, 09:05 PM

Looks as though your getting us to working with the epoxy Steve,a lot more working time with it heading into winter you dont have to rush as much ,looks good, i see you useing the 400 gm db how are you finding it and i see your useing the peel ply its good stuff to use ha,cheers chris.

stevemid

25-05-2012, 07:40 PM

Yah Chris, It's going good! The DB 400 is really easy to work with: wets out easy, and lays down without a lot of rolling. Also lots of difference when the shed is 16 vs 29 degrees! Now I can relax a bit!. Here's a few more pics installing the transom which I glued in today. Through the miracle of CNC and not me, the transom fit perfectly within +- 1mm all the way round. If you read the post from yesterday, you can now see the uni “sausage” reinforcing is going to do its job. If I turned it over now, it would float!

Next step is to glass this in with 3 layers of the DB 400. 100, 200, and 300mm on each surface, both inside and out. Then install the webs and the mounting boards for the motors.

chris69

25-05-2012, 08:35 PM

Hi Steve yer i saw the uni sausage on the transom by the time you overlap the 3layers inside and out it will be tough as ever layer i put in my boat has always gone to the transom i think ive got 5 over laps on my transom seam,ever time you over lap it makes it all stronger especialy when you can get the sheath rolled into the bog fillets when you radius the cornners,you are certinally moveing ahead with it great to see,cheers chris.

stevemid

26-05-2012, 08:58 PM

Damn fine work! Really enjoying your progress with it.

Cheers
Chimo
Chimo, and Capt Rednut, thanks for the positive notes.
Cheers,
Steve

Apollo

27-05-2012, 08:00 AM

Am loving this build thread Steve. Doing a top job there mate.

Fed

27-05-2012, 09:22 AM

What kind of ply sheets are they Steve, the checkerboard looking stuff?
It looks like it would be a pleasure to use, bending wise.

chris69

27-05-2012, 09:37 AM

Its not ply Fed its end grain balsa,balsa is very strong when on the end grain and laminated with epoxy.

Fed

27-05-2012, 09:40 AM

Thanks Chris I'll look it up.

stevemid

27-05-2012, 02:50 PM

What kind of ply sheets are they Steve, the checkerboard looking stuff?
It looks like it would be a pleasure to use, bending wise.

Hi ya Fed,
Yep as Chris says, end grain balsa which is milled 4" square, then coated in epoxy then sawn to whatever thickness (mine is 10mm,) epoxied side by side, then epoxied between two sheets of fibreglass. Much stronger than plywood but much much lighter and stiffer. You can bend it a little (it's made on the I beam principle) but for a major bend you make saw cuts (kerf) every 2" or so on the inside of the curve. When you got the bend you want, you fill in the kerfs with thickened glue and slap on a layer of fiberglass. When dry it will then hold the shape. Interesting thing about the way it's made, if you do get a hole below the waterline, only a 4" square gets waterlogged.

The company that makes it is ATL Composites, near Brissie. They have a good web site with lots of info. Here's a link that compares, duflex to ply, fibreglass layup, steel and aluminum. http://www.atlcomposites.com.au/files/products.composite_panels.duflex/duflex-foam.pdf

Cheers
Steve

stevemid

29-05-2012, 05:41 PM

I made up the supports for the duck-bill (boarding platform,) glued them in yesterday and glassed them today. This is an example of kerfing the duflex, bending it, then filling in the kerfs and glassing over the cuts.

Fed

29-05-2012, 06:18 PM

Wouldn't the supports catch a bit of water at times Steve?
Coming down bum first off a wave at high speed could put a lot of pressure on them. Will you be wearing your hat while driving, it could make all the difference.

chris69

30-05-2012, 10:09 AM

Look great Steve,its easy to just make something up and stick it on,you got to love the composite contrucion and even easyer with the endgrain balsa,cheers chris

stevemid

30-05-2012, 04:47 PM

Fed, I saw this on a boat that a mate did, 80671and thought the same thing. He hasn't had any problems with his, but just to be sure, I made mine smaller than his and made sure not to extend beyond the line of the chamfer panels (the diagonal ones) As you say, mother nature may modify this for me one day, but if that duckbill goes under water, then I reckon my 4strokes are going to enjoy a bit of water too!

Fed

30-05-2012, 04:58 PM

You could always fill in the hollowed out sections, think of the fun you'd have making tapered kerfs.

Many thanks for the thread Steve I'm really enjoying it.

Chimo

30-05-2012, 05:27 PM

Steve

What motors did your mate hang on that one. Nioce looking rig! What dimensions?

C
C

stevemid

04-06-2012, 07:53 PM

Hi Chimo,
He has Suzuki 60's and gets a max 29 knots . This is 23' long, 8'2" beam.

stevemid

04-06-2012, 08:26 PM

The next project is the motor wells. The webs are 25mm ply and the mounting board 2X25mm laminated together. The first picture shows them cut out and saturated with epoxy. Next photo shows them glued and filleted to the transom. I clamped small blocks on to get the webs at the right height and used the offcut piece of ply to centre and square the webs on the cutout.The next step was to drill and round out 1/2" holes for strips of uni to tie the webs permanently to the transom. The uni was glassed over inside and out with 400 double bias. This was followed with three layers of fibreglass at 4,6 and 12inches, inside and out. Once this cures, I'll fair the wells on the inside then glass on the motor mounting board.

Laminating the uni through the hole was a bitch. For the first one, I wetted it out on the table. The instructions show this neatly fanned out on the web and the inside of the transom. However, when you wet it out it sticks together like a soccer team of 5 year olds! For the second one I tried putting the uni through the hole dry, I thought I might be able to fan it out as I wet it out. Problem was I couldn't get the inside of the bundle wet whilst it was in the hole. Took it out re-wet it on the table and ended up with even more spaghetti back on the web.

Smithy

05-06-2012, 07:05 AM

sticks together like a soccer team of 5 year olds!

^ That's gold!

Interesting thread. Keep going. It is looking good.

myusernam

05-06-2012, 07:12 AM

Could you explain the uni hole a bit more? Is it structural? Is it to hold the transom on better than just normal right angle glassing and knees?

chris69

05-06-2012, 09:24 AM

Very interesting Steve i can understand what the uni does in tieing it in once laminated but yer a bit of a pain as you say , you would think that the 3 layers of glass over lapped would have been cerficant and it being bogged aswell,some 12k carbon tow would have made it realy strong and stiffened it up instead of the uni,cheers chris.

cormorant

05-06-2012, 03:10 PM

Learn and see something new every day. Never done it exactly like that before. Interesting. I think you are right that it should have fanned out the full 180 degrees or more so it then bonds with as much cloth and wood as possible and doesn't bulk/ bunch up. Worries me that when you cut this area back and fair it that you may cut a bit of the strength out unless you build the cloth up a little. No big issue

I've done it before by running fg tapes under butt joints splaying them so inner and outer glass layers are bonded diectly and also through holes in a simlilar way to stop "drumming glass" from inner to outer skin but not in a joint like that.

Credit to you so far . love the updates

PS ya mate has a better shed . Shed envy.

stevemid

07-06-2012, 03:36 PM

Myusernam, Chris69 and Cormorant,

I had responded to your questions/comments but the response didn't update to here. So here goes again, this time with a better story anyway:

Even though the transom of this boat is made up of 3 layers of 10mm duflex laminated together, anything you attach to the back of the transom (such as the motor wells) is only attached to back of the outside duflex panel AND to the layer of fibreglass on the back of that. A way needed to be found to transfer the weight of the engines etc, through the transom so that the entire transom, and not just the last layer of fibreglass, structure supports the engine wells and the weight of the engines. This is the solution that Craig Schionning of Spirited Designs came up with.

Taking into account Cormorant's comments, I wasn't real happy with my first efforts with the uniglass strands. I stripped the uni strands that I had out of a sheet of uni. The strands were about 2mm in diameter and were easy to work with when dry. However, wetted out the strands all stuck together like a wet rope. When I tried, I could no longer separate the 2mm strands; instead the hundreds of glass fibres that make up each strand tended to separate into angle hair. Getting this to fan out was a nightmare, especially where the bundle exited the 1/2" hole on the web. I really only wanted to fan this out about 45 degrees in the direction of the pull as the web would try to pull off the transom. So as Cormorant suggested I'm not going to grind this down to fair it as it will only remove the reinforcing fibres. Instead of grinding down, I'm going to fill to get it fair. Luckily, it's not that big a surface.

I had completed reinforcing 3 of the four holes through the webs as shown in my last post. Before doing the last one, I went to my local glass supplier looking for a 20-25mm uni tape that would be easier to manage. That I couldn't find but I did manage to find some 25mm uni directional tape in carbon fibre ($9./metre!) So I bought 3 metres and created 5 reinforcing tapes for the last hole.

To make this as strong as possible, I first created a bedding layer of cabosil high density which I spread on both sides of the web, around the rounded section of the transom and on the back side of the transom. I took 5 25mm strips of carbon uni 600mm and wet out all but the last 50mm (which was very useful for getting the bundle through the hole.) The carbon uni tapes laid down very nicely. I put down more cabosil bog between the strips to create a nice level surface then covered the lot with a layer of 400 DB. Here's some pics taken before I bogged between the strips and glassed over.

Tickleish

07-06-2012, 05:41 PM

chris69

07-06-2012, 07:51 PM

Now your cooking with gas Steve it looks like you got what you were after and when it is laminated over with your 400gm it will go no were,the carbon will give you many more times the strenght than the uni ever will,cheers chris.

stevemid

09-06-2012, 07:56 AM

hi Steve,

Great thread and looks like it will be a great rig for what you want. Please keep us updated and i don't know where in oz you are but would love to come for a look once completed. Maybe us Ausfish guys could do a road trip and you could take us on a fishin trip Steve.

I'm definatley going to do something like this once my life slows done a bit.

Great job and i really would like to come for a look one day.

Hi Tickelish,
I see your from Redlands. Nice part of the world. Been through there several times sailing north for the winter. I'm from the NSW central coast, south of Newcastle (where it is 6 degrees this morning!) I'm building this power boat to get more into fishing and plan to trailer it up there in the winters.

You'd be welcome but it's probably a bit far for a sticky. I do plan to come up for a Ausfish M&G next winter. See you then!

Steve

stevemid

09-06-2012, 08:03 AM

I originally posted this in Electronics, but Chris69 suggested I put it here:

My wife gave me a Garmin 451S combo sounder/gps for the boat I'm building. It came with Garmin's 50/200 transom mounted transducer. I don't particularly like the idea of the transducer hanging off the transom but I really hate the idea of having a black cable running up a white transom on a brand new boat.

I've seen a few sites that suggest sitting the transducer inside the hull (oil bath, epoxied, etc.) My hull is fibreglass skins with balsa wood core. Does anyone know if an internal mounting such as this will work for me?

I am working on the transom and the motor wells now, so there would be time to do something to make this look better if I did mount it externally. Any ideas there to hide the cable?

Thanks for any help.

Hi there Steve if your going to mount the transducer on the inside you will have to pick your spot and remove the balsa to the outside skin and fill back up with epoxy and you will glass over it when you skin the inside,i do no that the internal set ups they fill up some condut with glycol,for better intruction on this post this subject on the boat chat ,ive seen something on it a few months ago and one guy did it with his cat hull,the transducers dont like shooting through the wood,and if your going to mount it on the outside well you might beable to pick up some white tubeing from some were you no like the split black stuff and saddle it to some ply blocks on the transom to saddle them too,then you not scewing into your transom skin,cheers chris

chris69

09-06-2012, 01:56 PM

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/search.php?searchid=498517 have a read here Steve you might find what your looking for.

timeout

10-06-2012, 12:38 AM

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/search.php?searchid=498517 have a read here Steve you might find what your looking for.Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
is it just me who gets this with most links ?
Great work Steve
My uncle built a 44 foot yacht next door to us so I know how much work goes in to such a project.

Smithy

10-06-2012, 08:24 AM

Shoot through hull transducers are not suppossed to work very well in cored/composite hulls but I know the 1kw wet box transducer worked well in Ymer (Brooksy's 34' Black Watch) which is balsa cored. Like me he has gone a through hull. I just put a tilted element transducer in my foam/balsa boat.

chris69

10-06-2012, 01:20 PM

Hi Smithy you have to remove the core and epoxy fill the space so theres no air gaps to work.

rando

10-06-2012, 02:06 PM

One of the "glass"yachts Ive owned had a thru the hull tranducer .
This set up had a threaded skin fitting sikaflexed through the glass.The transducer was removable to prevent fouling from marine growth
Is there any reason other than hull integrity why this setup is not favoured by powerboaties??

Rando

stevemid

10-06-2012, 03:26 PM

Thanks, Timeout, Smithy & Rando,
At this stage, until I get done building, I'm trying to conserve my cash, which is why I'm willing to live with the 4" combo chartplotter and fish finder my wife got for me (other than the politics of trading in her gift.) Same with the transducer. The unit came with a transom mount 50/200 and I'm going to use that for awhile. It sounds like they are quite good in 30-80 metres of water which is where I'll probably spend a lot of time starting out. I just don't want this flippin' doohicky with its cable hanging off the back of the boat. I suppose its like anything else: if you're just starting out, you got a long way to go before spending lots of money on equipment makes any sense. I have no problem putting in a thru-hull. I'm half way there if I build a wet well as I have to take out the inside layer of glass and the balsa core anyway. I just want to get the whole boat done before I start upgrading.

Rando, I'm not sure. The more experienced guys seem to go for more power first. Certainly the conflict with the trailer is an issue for trailer boat owners. I've read most of the chats in this forum on the subject and $ is an issue that also pops up a lot.

cormorant

10-06-2012, 05:34 PM

There is shoot through where you mount it in a pool in the hull or epoxy it to the inside and there there are through hull tranducers. They use the through hull ones on tachts as they are usually also combined with a paddle wheel to you can also calculate current, sped through teh water not just a GPS speed over ground. They are removable so you can pull them out when moored and clean them as even algea or slime changes their accuracy and you also do service kits on the occasionly.

All tranducers require a solid ( no air) area. As mentioned above you can "panel a section " by using solid glass ( no core , no air bubbles) and this is what some manufacturers use on a particular place on their boats. Guess you could vac bag a small area of solid glass without core so you have all the options in the future.

Some tranducers must be wet boxed ( they get hot or damaged so I'm told) and and others ( usually called puck) can be just dry mounted to the inside of the hull. I've seen small transom mount ones epoxied and even sika to the inside of hulls and they still do Ok but are down a bit on power but often give constant readings at all speeds as they are mounted in areas of such clean waterflow and no water airation.

Send a email to garmin so you now your options with that unit and tranducer.

There may be a puck avaliable for that unit and you just mount them on a bed of epoxy with no air bubbles over your small solid glass panel.

myusernam

10-06-2012, 07:06 PM

you can bed your existing skimmer transducer in some epoxy an the floor of your hull no problem. Just make it a slow mix and make sure there are no bubbles. So long as the attenuation is uniform it'll be sweet. Lowrance have instructions fo r this for their skimmer transducers

stevemid

11-06-2012, 12:48 PM

Cormorant, myusernam, thanks. I will talk further to Garmin, but unless they advise me different a plan is starting to take shape: I'm going to create a nice, clear epoxy area in the stern of my boat in an area of least turbulence. I'll make this flat and level. I'll size this area so that it will acommodate any size transducer (for later) and will also handle a wet box if I need to add one later. When I get the boat in the water, I'll just see which way to mount the Garmin puck that produces the best result and also leaves me room to move in the future.

Thanks everybody for your advice.

Steve

stevemid

11-06-2012, 01:22 PM

Fed, I've had your observation on the curved supports for my duck board in the back of my mind for a couple weeks. On second thought, I ended up agreeing with you that in adverse conditions, the stern of the boat could come down on or through a wave and create problems for my fancy curvy supports. Since I am getting closer to turning the boat over, I still had time to fix this up. So, I cut 'em off and notched the support so I could add a 'doubler to provide the needed support. This looks like a better solution.

Thanks for your help.

Fed

12-06-2012, 09:03 AM

Looking good Steve, as far as your transducer goes I don't think there's anywhere to mount it on the transom unless the pictures are deceiving and there's enough space between the pod and the side of the hull.
You may be stuck with shoot through the hull type.

stevemid

20-06-2012, 09:59 PM

I finished building the engine pods on the upside down hulls and immediately started fairing. Before turning the boat right-side-up, I want to apply 4-5 coats of neat epoxy to the under water sections, apply Copper Shield antifouling up to 75mm above the water line and paint the tunnel. All those areas need to be faired first.

I had my mate Phil in for the past 4 days to help with the fairing. We've done the most physically demanding first fairing cycle which involved troweling on a fairing bog (epoxy+microspheers) and then attacking it with a torture board, a 2-3 ft. long 40 grit sandpaper backed flexible piece of timber. There's a reason they call it a torture board and anyone thinking of building a boat should spend a day with one before going ahead. (They say building a boat is 70% sanding, by the way.)

Oh well, the hard part's done now, including a trip to the physio. But I'll probably still spend a week filling in the left over low spots, doing the fine sanding in the corners, and then going over everything with finer sandpaper. That will be good enough for the parts that will be anti-fouled since I'll be rolling on 4-5 coats of the copper heavy epoxy. For the tunnel and the underside of the bridge deck, I intend to put on 3 coats of high build primer wet on wet and then do finer and finer sanding, prior to rolling and tipping this area with Sterling linear polyurethane.

chris69

20-06-2012, 10:47 PM

Looking real good there steve,and your a better man tham useing torture board with 40grit,80grit 50mm wide and 800mm long was hard enough for me,are you going to chemicaly bond the 4to5 coats of epoxy barrier coating or just sand inbetween coats,cheers chris.

stevemid

21-06-2012, 06:18 AM

Hi Chris, I was thinking of doing them one coat after the other (wet on tacky) to get the chemical bond. Any tips in that regard? I'm kinda worried about what 4 coats rolled on will do to my fairing job?

The area where I needed the bigger torture board was on the bridge deck. This starts out at 450mm wide then curves out 2m to meet the tips of the bows and up 1.2m to meet the deck. Fairing that was a ball buster. I should have beaded it first, but instead I used 2mm battens to lay down a 2mm layer of bog and then had to sand the whole surface of that on the 1st go. Phil came in after that andbeaded it with a notched trowel. He then sanded the tops of the beading fair and once that was done, troweled bog on using the faired beading as a guide. I'll still get to sand that but it should be just a touch-up, I hope.

Steve

stevemid

21-06-2012, 07:33 AM

Removed duplicate post

Steve

Nathan Tuskes

21-06-2012, 11:44 AM

its good to see someone else enjoying the fairing process as much as i did.... then theres the moment just when you think your done fairing you go to blow if off and you see a few hundred tiny pin holes.....you have to love using a 1100mm torcher board with 40grit....i only managed to do 1-2min stints before having a break....ahhh the pain...

chris69

21-06-2012, 05:50 PM

Hi Steve,yer id be worried a bit too, if you going to roll that migh be your best option and do one coat across the hull and let get tacky and the next one coat along the hull and so on ,you will have to sand the last lightly no use putting it on to sand it away and it should stay fair as you have done a lot of work to get it good and fair,and if your useing a highbuld primer before you antifowl under the waterlin of the hull as you said you were going to do the highbuild should fill anything and beable to be sanded fair again a lot easyer,have fun, i hope it all goes well for you Steve doing the barrier coat,cheers chris.

stevemid

21-06-2012, 08:05 PM

Hey Nathan, Hi Chris,
Yep, lotta work but if I don't get it right at this stage then no matter what equipment or glitz I tack on later, it'll still be crook underneath. I'm even thinking of bringing out a painter/panel beater to look it over before I paint. They have a much more experienced eye when it comes to "fair."

Chris, did you see the video of how Dean turned his hull single handed? Inspired!

chris69

21-06-2012, 09:31 PM

Yer Steve i did and he is a good thinker, i got insperation form Dean after seeing it done so i did it myself as well but mine was lighter you would not think it was possible seeing were Dans boat was and the space he did it in,he got the block and tackles cheap of ebay hes a good lateral thinker,have you worked out how your doing yours, it should be very light and easy being a cat hull,cheers chris.

stevemid

22-06-2012, 07:01 AM

have you worked out how your doing yours, it should be very light and easy being a cat hull,cheers chris.

Hi Chris, in addition to turning the hull, I'm now bow-in and need to be stern-in. So the hull needs to come out of the shed. I'm going to jack the hull up, cut the build jig out, put a trailer under it and tow it clear of the shed. Then I'm going to lower the transom down to the ground. Using ropes, I'll lift the bow and flip it end for end. Then, back on the trailer and reverse it back into the shed. That's the plan, version 14 and counting:)

Rip it up

17-07-2012, 06:10 AM

Any updates?

stevemid

18-07-2012, 05:29 PM

Greetings from dust city,
My last update was about a month ago when I finished constructing the motor wells and modifying the duck board to get rid of the curved sections. For the last 4 weeks I’ve been fairing the hulls prior to turning. I've included some pictures from when I smeared on the first coat of bog; that was 17 June. I've since sanded that off and re-applied and sanded that off as well.

Then I've gone over every internal and external corner (joins) and fill them with bog before sanding again to make ‘em smooth. Just when I'm ready to call it "fair" I see something else that stands out like dogs balls. One example is the bottoms of the hulls. These sections start out pretty much horizontal at the stern and twist to nearly vertical at the bow. This leaves a concave curve in the panel which to my eye looks very good. Should this be filled in to make a perfect triangle? Any way I've been farting around with this and similar issues - smearing it on and sanding it off, (wipe on wipe off.)

I finally called Craig Schionning (the designer) and got him to come down day after tomorrow for a Quality Control inspection. Then, I'll at least have a data point to decide how much longer to keep sanding.

This process doesn't really lend itself to updates as the boat looks the same now as it did 3 weeks ago (after multiple iterations). I'm really looking forward to "making progress" again. But I'll tell you one thing, I'm sure going to fair as I go on the remainder of the boat. I need to see progress to keep me going.

Steve

The Woo

18-07-2012, 05:48 PM

Stay strong Steve! I feel your pain on the fairing front, our project has involved LOTS of it, inside and out. (see below)

Re the concave underwater sections, I'd be inclined to leave them concave rather than triangulate them. More lift will be gained from the concave style. No doubt the designer will give you the definative answer though.
At least it's only dust mate, not much fibreglass :) (I find the old fibreglass dust itches more than the new stuff) haha

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q301/bennythewoo/Illusion%2033%20OBrien/9418212.jpg

Rip it up

18-07-2012, 09:42 PM

Fairing days mean boardshorts and singlets not tyrex suits and baby powder. Give me a torture board any day. Keep your head up, the interior fabrication see's major changes daily.

stevemid

19-07-2012, 04:19 PM

Rip it up, Woo
Thanks for the encouragement. Didn't realise my dobber sounded quite that down. Amazing how much got done in the last few days on the advent of an inspection!
Steve

Swanie1975

19-07-2012, 06:19 PM

what grit are you using at the moment for fairing steve? if you get to p80 - 120 you can a spray a light mist of prepsol over the area and it will give you a better reflection and you will be able to see how your panels are shaping up( until it dries off:P). otherwise you can use a guide coat dusted over the area to be sanded and this will show up the highs/lows in the bog like night and day. at work we use a dry black powder for this but a black spraycan works just as well.

cheers ryan

stevemid

19-07-2012, 07:43 PM

Swanie1975
I'm using 40 followed by 80. I saw the powder being used in a youtube video (getting on-line tuition on fairing) where they were blocking a door panel. What's it called? I've got some cheap black acrylic spray paint but I wonder about creating adhesion problems with that. The powder seems to have its advantages. I also bought one of the adjustable flexibility sander kits which I also saw on youtube as they looked the goods. Various sizes up to 27"

Where's a good source (store or on-line) for buying autobody stuff?

chris69

19-07-2012, 08:22 PM

hi there Steve haveing fun i see you can use some string line chalk blue stuff worked ok and with the black acylic well if you can still see it you have more work to get it out as you no, when i got down to the small hollows i used a niko pen to mark out any spots and sanded the hollows to get the marker out of it,i just changed colours after each fill and sand so you dont miss any, look good yes i toltaly agree with you when you start fairng it takes a bit to get it right but thats a very important bit of the boat building and when your happy with it,its done and time for the highbuild primer what system are you painting with,cheers chris.

stevemid

20-07-2012, 03:40 AM

what system are you painting with,cheers chris.

The thing I noticed w the black guide coat is the overspray. I had the motor wells fair but covered one in guide coat working on the adjacent hull panel. that's why I was thinking of using this black powder Swannie1975 mentioned

I am going to use Wattle 2 pack hi- build, and am tossing up roll & tipping with Alexseal or Sterling for the paint.

Cheers
Steve

timeout

20-07-2012, 02:47 PM

Hey Steve this is much better than chassis black mate.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=GSX39WM YJSgs4CCRDFQ26JglQX28R3361Cbl

one of these will take a lot of pain out of it and useful before final buffing also.You can get a foam interface pad to use on the curved bits also.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Manufacturing/Industry/Product-Catalog/Online-Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECFTDQGLE0000000_nid=69KXW92 KJ8gsSQSFJR0R56glXHVZ8N3977bl
any good auto paint suppliers in Aus will have them.

Swanie1975

20-07-2012, 05:41 PM

timeouts on the money there but i would call into a local panelshop and ask where they get their supplies from - should be able to get a powder product hopefully at a better price. dont worry about the spray can residue as you need to keep sanding until its all gone anyway and it really helps show your highs and lows.

when you are sanding i take it you are criss-crossing not rubbing in straight back and forth lines. if you experiment with sanding the bog gently just as it goes off with the 40 grit you will find you can shape it quickly and with less effort but it will clog the sandpaper up. it takes practice but saves a lot of hard yakka. once the bog hardens up fully you can finish it off nicely with the finer grits.

whereabouts are you steve? if youre close to the goldie i could show exactly what i mean.

cheers ryan:)

stevemid

21-07-2012, 10:09 AM

Hey Ryan,
Much as I'l like to be on the GC, I'm on the NSW Central Coast midway between Sydney & Newcastle. I've found the 3M stuff on the web. Not cheap, $55 for a smallish pot. I expect it goes a long way though.

On the sanding front, I've gotten the hang of it now criscrossing with a longer board and changing paper often goes faster and does a better job.
Steve

stevemid

21-07-2012, 10:23 AM

Great news boys,
I had the boat's designer out yesterday for a look see. He pronounced the boat straight as a die and near professional in the fairing we've done. He helped me re-fair up two spots in the front where 3 chines come together and suggested I now cover the hull in three coats of high build primer then do a final long boarding prior to turning. This was music to my ears as I can now proceed confidently. Whew!
Steve

Chimo

21-07-2012, 11:50 AM

Great news Steve.

Cheers
Chimo

The Woo

21-07-2012, 01:12 PM

Great stuff Steve, you'd be pumped! Well done.

stevemid

14-08-2012, 07:45 AM

8341083411After getting the hulls fair, I put on 3 coats of epoxy, rolled on and tipped off with a brush. This process avoids the orange peel effect. After the epoxy, I re-sanded then rolled on three coats of high-build sand-able primer. This actually acts as a guide coat, giving the hulls an all one colour finish. When you start fine-sanding that you can easily see the high and low spots . I don’t want to go too crazy with the under-water sections as that’s going to get a copper-rich epoxy based paint job and wouldn’t need to be finished for a mirror paint job. In order to paint on 3 coats of primer, I laid boards across the tunnel, laid on the boards and painted 3 coats one after the other without stepping on previous coats. Must have got my inspiration from the olympic acrobats.

Chimo

14-08-2012, 09:32 AM

Be a shame to use the boat. Straight into the pool room I reckon. Saves on a trailer and a 4WD!

Cheers
Chimo

stevemid

14-08-2012, 12:14 PM

Nah....I gotta at least weigh the thing in case Mister asks. And I'd like to check out top speed WOT just to get even with my mate who built one with 60 Suzuki's who has the better shed. I'm going with Yamaha's. (I didn't say 70HP did I?)

;D
Steve

stevemid

18-08-2012, 02:02 PM

I lost 500kg!

The wife of a mate of mine who also built a Spirited 230 catamaran (he passed away recently) was trying to get the boat registered and the need for an Australian Builders Plate came up. All boats being registered now need an ABP. She didn't know what numbers to put on the plate and I was having a conversation with the designer about this. Here is a picture of the ABP.
83483 Here are the specs of the boat:
83482
Now I've always thought that you added the payload to the displacement of the boat. No, the designer said the displacement already included the estimated payload! Therefore where I've been thinking about trailers and tow vehicles I've always calculated 1200Kg +500Kg= 1700Kg. No he said. The boat itself, with the motors, batteries and fitout should weigh about 700Kg. To that you have to add fuel, water, equipment and people. So for trailering purposes I'm going to be 500kg lighter than I thought! That's why they say composite boats are strong but light!

Horse

18-08-2012, 06:06 PM

Steve, is he sure of those numbers? It seems to low for 7m X 2.5m hull. Even vac bagged would struggle big time

stevemid

18-08-2012, 07:19 PM

Hi Horse,
Yahh thats what I was saying to him: "no friggin' way! and him saying, "yes way." We ended it by him saying, "Well I should know, I designed it." To be fair, the Schionning family have been built hundreds of composite cats (mostly sail) for 20+ years so I would say they do know what they are on about.

But I just did some quick calculations:
The boat is made up of 54 10mm duflex panels. Each panel weighs 11kg and let's say we're getting a 60% yield from the panels on average. 54X11X.6 = 356kg. To calculate the weight of the glass and resin: All the glass is 450g/sqm double bias. We'll use a roll of that (60% yield) 90 sq.m X450 X .6= 24Kg plus an equal amount of resin for a total of 48 kg for glassing. Next we have the weight of the fairing the primer and the paint. Looking at what I've put on the hulls so far (and what I've sanded off) I can't imagine there being more than 25kg in that.

So the weight of the shell should be about:
356
48
25
----
429kg. To that we add
2 motors 180
2 SS fuel tanks 20
Steering: 10
2X105AH AGM Batteries: 62
Wiring: 10
Electronics: 10
Carpeting: 10
Lighting: 5
Stove: 10
Fridge: 20
Windows: 30
Total: 796kg

So, by that calculation, we are within 10% of his figure. Fuel, fluids etc all go into the payload figure. So we could be close.

Steve
PS Forgot I haven't added anchor & chain, windlasses and SS railings. Now the weight gain begins....

Fed

19-08-2012, 08:33 AM

At this rate you'll be down to a single axle trailer Steve.

Horse

19-08-2012, 09:33 AM

They are amazing numbers Steve. If you can hold it under a 1000kg dry weight it will make your towing a breeze

stevemid

19-08-2012, 09:55 AM

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. Everything changes, especially the costs for trailering and tow vehicles.

MyWay

19-08-2012, 10:32 AM

Steve, is he sure of those numbers? It seems to low for 7m X 2.5m hull. Even vac bagged would struggle big time

Steve, I believe Horse was referring to bridge clearance.

It`s looking good so far,
great job!
please keep us updated with the project

stevemid

19-08-2012, 12:37 PM

Bridge deck clearance in the specs is the distance at rest from the water to the top of the tunnel between the hulls. Some cats are designed to ride on this bridge deck, others use the air pressure between the hulls to provide lift. This cat is designed with sufficient clearance to ride over the waves and minimise slamming of the waves against the bridgedeck.
Steve

stevemid

21-09-2012, 03:39 PM

Long life antifouls have been created by mixing copper microspheres in hard wearing epoxy. It is this technology that I have decided on for my project. Details can be found here: http://coppercoat.com/ Called a 10+ year antifoul, Coppercoat does require periodic "scrub down" to remove the slime. My thought is that because my boat will sit only 8" in the water, I'll be able to do my scrub downs in a shallow bay and avoid some of the annual haul out costs. I still plan to build a trailer to take trips with the boat, but that project is after building the boat itself

My underwater area is about 14 sq metres and that reauired 3.1 (read 4)litres of Coppercoat, consisting of 4 litres of expoxy and 4kg of copper microspheers. These are mixed together to get the copper "in suspension" and then painted on with a roller. The copper colour changes to a greeney vergreis colour over time.

I drew the antifould line 75mm above the designed water line (DWL) using a water level. I then applied 3M 'edgelock' masking tape. Coppercoat requires 4-6 layers applied wet on tacky. The pot life is only about an hour so I decided to mix 1/2 litre per batch since I was working alone. This batch size allowed me meter out the coverage and to paint either the insides or outsides of both hulls without too much climbing. In all I got on six coats over 12 hours, finishing night before last just past midnight. The next morning about 6AM I went out and removed the masking tape before the epoxy had time to harden.

I'm really happy with the way this came out and I know that no algae will grow on my boat (as long as it stays in the shed.) The next step will be to paint the area between the hulls then flip the boat over and start building out the inside.

Chimo

21-09-2012, 05:45 PM

Looks great!

Cheers
Chimo

cormorant

21-09-2012, 06:21 PM

Looks good and hey Steve don't forget you still need to build a dinghy out of all the leftovers. I need a strong lightweight dinghy so I may come and do a double cat dinghy build!.

I'll be really interested in how the antifoul goes. How much did it cost and how much coverage did you get from mow much of it?

The lighter weights are going to make you a easy tow but you may have to check the aerodynamics so it doesn't take off and leave the road at that weight and nasa will be in contact.

For the trailer before you turn it over I wonder if it is worth just taking final measurements of the hull bottom for when you do the trailer build.etc. At a lighter weight a alloy trailer will be a good option and less maintainance for occasional usage.

stevemid

23-09-2012, 07:59 AM

Hi guys, Cormorant, the antifoul was $775 but that incuded $110 transport for hazardous material from Freemantle. By his calculations I needed 3.1 L for 4-5 coats to cover 14 sq m. When I started, I was worried that I'd put it on too thick and not have enough to get the number of coats, so I actually got two complete coats out of the 1st litre. I started putting it on a bit thicker and was still getting an extra hull per litre. I got at least 6 coats in total.

I hadn't thought about a dinghy cuz I've already got one but come to think of it, I'm going to have a bit of extra material because I told them not to cut out the seating for the cockpit (the design had seats all round and I thought they would get in the way when fishing.) My thought was to build two custom ~4 foot long ice boxes with padded tops. These could sit along the gunnel when cruising and be pushed to the centre when fishing. Any ideas on that and how to keep them in position?

The designer does have a design for a dinghy but it's very expensive. I saw a Peter Snell (Easy (sailing) Catamarans) designed cat dinghy and took lots of pics and measurements of that. A cat dinghy wouldn't be a bad idea given the number of people who have drowned recently going from the dinghy to the boat!

I'm also thinking about trailers. Luckily, I've got my mate in Swansea who had one build by Feld in Newcastle and I've been all over that with a tape measure and for ideas. I'm on a bit of a tight budget for the boat which is why I am deferring the trailer until after launching. With steel, I could build it myself (hiring a qualified welder.) Not sure about self building with alloy, but that would be ideal.
Steve

stevemid

21-10-2012, 03:04 PM

Painting the Tunnel

After applying the Coppercoat antifoul and letting that cure for 10 days, we painted on three coats of linear polyurethane, using the 'roll and tip' method. This is where you apply and spread out the paint using a roller, then "tip it off" using a fine bristle badger hair brush. This is a very fine, once over, one direction stroke with the brush. This allows the linear polyurethane to 'flow out' into a mirror like finish which you'll see in the pictures. In the first coat we mixed the paint and let it sit for 30 minutes before adding 33% thinners and rolling it on. More thinners were added as time passed. This coat, done by Phil came out perfect as you can see from the photos.

Second coat, done by me came out totally fecked up with brush marks everywhere. The mistake I made was I added the thinners right after mixing. They must have evaporated off during the sitting period because the paint just didn't "flow out" even though more thinners were added as time passed. Needless to say, this coat required a great deal of sanding and the application of a third coat of paint.

After painting the tunnel, I crawled under the boat and cut out the build jig. This was a lot of cutting as there was a full width temporary build frame every 800mm. I finally found a use for my dual saw! Early on, before putting on the sides of the boat I had got under there and taped all the chines except the 100mm or so right above a frame. Once the build frames were removed I was able to get under the boat and fibreglass all the chines where the frames had been plus the whole forward 1/3 of the boat which was inaccessible, plus the inside chine formed by the hull side. That completed I gave everything a good sand, did a bit of in-filling over any rough spots and jacked up the boat in readiness turning the hull. In the final pictures you can see what it looked like under the boat.8533885340853428534385341

Horse

21-10-2012, 06:15 PM

Getting there Steve. Was it easier to glass the inside from underneath or were you adding strength before flipping it?

stevemid

22-10-2012, 06:07 AM

Both, really. From having worked on the tunnel for so long I was soooo tired of working below my knees. It was such a relief to stand up straight! But also for strength. The hull sides which went on last had only been taped on the outside so those needed doing on the inside, and also the bows where all the pieces come together. It was just so easy doing it sitting down or at shoulder height that I did the lot!

Chimo

22-10-2012, 06:31 AM

Looking great! How are you going to turn it over? Is it going to sit on a trailer or flat top to complete it?

C
C

stevemid

22-10-2012, 05:38 PM

Chimo,

Usually you drag it out of the shed and roll it. That requires leaving in several temporary MDF bulkheads to support the sides which are long and floppy. Because I had several weeks before I could get a crew together, I decided remove all the temporary bulkheads and do all the inside glassing while the boat was upside down. Also because I had built the 3-ply transom and the motor wells which are normally done after the boat is flipped, the stern of my boat was much stronger than without the transom and so I decided (in my infinite wisdom) to flip my boat end for end. Little did I realise that 2/3 of the weight of the boat would be "over-head."

Anyway to protect the duckboard I placed mdf boxes under the motorwells and cushions on each of these. The thing I didn't count on was that this raised the whole monument another 400mm AND the cushion on the MDF was incredibly slippery (both going up and coming down.) I had lifting and lowering ropes attached to the bow on both sides. Because this was SO unstable up in the air, the photographer was called to grab a rope. In the middle of this we had to tie additional ropes to the duckboard to stop the stern slipping (both going up and going down.) The wife of one of my mates was taking a movie with her iPhone and I managed to capture this image from her 7 second video.

As you can see in the previous post, I raised the upside down boat in the shed high enough to reverse a car float under it. We then lowered it down onto 4X2 bearers After it was raised to vertical (higher than the peak of a 2 storey house) we lowered it back down onto a waiting mattress. All went ok without mishap. As of today it is back in the shed on the custom built stands (3 to a side) that come with the kit.

I'll put up more pictures later

Steve

Chimo

22-10-2012, 05:52 PM

Yippee ky yay, currumba; lucky!

I thought that us GOMs all like a quiet or at least very well controlled life!

Very glad you pulled it off so to speak. Tough stuff that plywood!

C
C

stevemid

23-10-2012, 06:22 AM

Turning The Boat

The day did not start well. We arrived at the shed missing one of the wheels from the trailer. Undaunted, we pulled the upside down boat out of the shed and got the bow up on stands. We placed more boxes and cushions under the motor wells to protect the duck board when the boat was vertical. More cushions and a queen mattress were placed in the fall path. When we finally lifted the boat vertical, it looked like a pair of Washington Monuments. The lowering was safe and steady with only a slight thump at the end. The boat easily slid onto the trailer for the ride back into the shed where we placed it on the pre-made stands. The following day, I build stairs for both port and starboard sides. Since the boat "just" fits in the shed, this lets me access either side of the shed from the boat.

Chimo

23-10-2012, 06:32 AM

Might not have started well but the product as slid back in the shed is a credit to you. Well done so far, looking forward to the topsides and the fit out.

Cheers
Chimo

PS Good thing the ground was dry and hard for the flip.

Jarrah Jack

23-10-2012, 08:26 AM

Well done, a fair bit of thinking went into that flip although it wasn't a standard one. I couldn't see any beers to oil the helpers.

I've got a U haul tandum the same as yours in the yard atm. I'm glad it didn't suffer the same fate last night on the road.

stevemid

23-10-2012, 07:16 PM

Jack,
Nah, no beers till after. The plan was wacky enough without alcohol mixed into the execution! I took them all down to the Bateau Bay Hotel for a "lunch" after which went down a treat given it was a very hot day. We arrived with the hire trailer at 8:45 and were finshed with the shed locked up at 11:00.

Midnight

23-10-2012, 08:26 PM

The Bateau Bay pub is a good spot. I recently moved to Empire Bay from Brisbane. I look forward to seeing the finished product out on Brisbane Water and Broken Bay before too long. Good luck with the rest of the project. I have been watching and learning, and have thoroughly enjoyed following the build so far. Well done.

Cheers,
Myles

The Woo

24-10-2012, 12:00 PM

Big congrats on reaching the "flip" milestone Steve. Great work on achieving said flip without a crane too. I like a lateral thinker :)
I bet it's great to have right right way up..... must really feel like you're getting somewhere now :)

stevemid

25-10-2012, 05:17 AM

Thanks, Midnight. Hey its great to see someone from the Central Coast on here! Woo, it does feel great and I am really re-energised.

On Monday I cleaned up the shed, finished laying out and taping down new plastic on the floor and building stairs either side in the stern. Tuesday I glassed the wide part of the bridge deck. This had been kerfed to accept the curve. I also glassed the insides of the motor wells, now upright, with 300, 200, and 100mm fiberglass, same as the outsides. In between I drove up to Swansea and had a look at Frank and Pauline's Spirited 235 wanting to get a picture in my mind of the under-deck work, particularly provisions for cabling and plumbing.

Frank died of pancreatic cancer midway through the build of his boat and Pauline has finally had the canvas and the flooring completed. She still hasn't launched the boat and is thinking now of selling. Such a sad thing in the middle of their retirement dream . Just goes to show: If you have a dream....

Wednesday, I leveled the boat again so everything I glass in is plumb and square. I also put up hand-rails on the stairs. I sanded off the sharp dags from the glassing (ahhhh the itch of glass fibre again!). I also located and cut out the forward webs (between the anchor lockers) the three full width bulkheads,and the intermediate half bulkheads which I'll start to install install this week. It's going to start looking like a boat real soon!

stevemid

26-10-2012, 07:05 AM

Yesterday I cut out all the full and half bulkheads. These are all glued and taped in and provide torsional rigidity.

I managed to get most of Bulkhead 1 glued and glassed in yesterday along with the three webs which separate the very front of the boat into 4 sections. On the outside points of each hull are flotation chambers which will be sealed, and inside these are a deck locker and an anchor locker. I expect it will take me about 2 days per bulkhead.

Questions for the brains trust:
1. You see from the last picture that there is a web on the centre line which separates the anchor locker from the deck locker. Any pictures/ideas out there of how to set up the bow roller and a internally mounted drum anchor winch with an offset anchor locker?

2. I'll also be having to install the tow-eye on the centreline to winch the boat up on the to trailer. Any suggestions for how to mount that without cutting away part of the web? I reckon I'll have to put in a backing pad for that as well.

It's good to be building again! And this part doesn't need fairing!

Steve

Chimo

26-10-2012, 10:23 AM

Steve

"internally mounted drum anchor winch with an offset anchor locker"

Off the top of the head, Could you build a "dish / cup" in which to mount the drum anchor winch and take a "chunk" out of the dividing bulkhead between the the two lockers and mount the "cup" containing the drum on the top of the now lowered bulkhead. You could also run a few fore and aft stiffeners / strengthening members off the sides of the "cup" to mount the drum bearings to that will also provide a strong mount for the "anchor cup"

The front end of the "cup" support arms also includes a backing plate for the tow eye to be mounted thru.

Next?

What yu think?

Cheers
Chimo

cormorant

26-10-2012, 11:01 AM

Just ideas . I know with precuts I am probably causing a nightmare.

Keep it simple . Mount the winch in it's natural position in the middle as far from the bow as possible to keep weight off the nose. It's mount plate will also act as the stiffening and backing for the tow / winch hook. Change the strengthening webbs to suit. Remember that tow hook will be what VMR tows you through a bar with so big strong backing and extra oversize to start with and reasonably low down so it is lifting the hull rather than diving the hull in a tow. Still need it accessible for clipping on a trailer winch strap. As yours will be moored you also need to have a really sturdy bow roller and a large surface area for it to mount on with a bollard as well. Bollards and roller cop pizzling on moored boats as they veer all over the place and constant flogging from waves / swell unless on a very protected mooring spot. Do a template of your front roller out of mdf and throw the anchor on it and a sham up a cardboard bod for teh template of teh winch and see just what space you have . Hard to tell from photos unless you have seen one with a drum winch in it.

Remember that with a drum winch the anchor will always be out there on the bow so you will need a double bow roller as you will need the 2nd one to have the mooring line come over and connect to the bollard and be clear of the anchor so it doesn't cut it.

You have mentioned a pet hate of mine - air floatation . Seriously I know it is legal but do you really want to trust the intregity of something to be airtight in 10 years time. Put foam in it and a access cover so it can always be checked and you can get to things like the nuts under railing fittings rather than screw them through decks or repair if you smack a dock. Same for under your coamings later on.

Sorry to hear about the ather bloke who was building one. Shame he didn't get the opportunity and satisfaction to finish it and use it. At least he went still doing things not just sitting around dreaming.

Edit
I can't remember shape of deck etc.
Just a odd thought. Mount the anchor winch behing the 2 storage lockers on the centerline on deck with a cover .

The other thing to remember is when will you use the drum anchor. Overnighters , only on sand etc etc. We use a reef and chain from deck a lot with a strop to the bow as it is simple and cheap if we get caught up. Really fast to pull with a buoy if in deep water. I just don't like donating anchors at the price of good ones with chains to the deep. Yep you can just have a shackle and attach a reef to the main drum is teh other way and your good anchor won't get stolen while it is siting on your mooring. You could run a single roller and slip teh main anchor in teh locker everytime you mooor up as well .

stevemid

26-10-2012, 06:29 PM

Hey Chimo & Cormorant thanks for the thoughts, lots to chew on whilst I'm glassing. I finished taping Bulkhead #1 and the deck locker webs today. Here's a couple pictures which show them pretty well. I've also included a picture of my Swansea mate's foredeck. The back of the anchor locker is 850mm from the front of the boat and is 777mm at its deepest.

Chimo, I could build a box centred on cutout in the centreline web, just big enough to hold the winch. The box itself would replace the support provided by the web, and prevent other things in the lockers from getting tangled up with the winch. The box could be made with a built-in backing plate that would spread the loads to bulkhead 1. Thinking about it, I'd still use the box even if I offset the winch to one side. I'd have to think about access to the winch for maintenance. The nice thing about centring the winch would be a straight run the the bow roller without a turning block.

Cormorant, lots of good advice in there. I hadn't even thought about filling the boyancy chambers with foam. That'd be really easy to do, but how would you check the bottom of it to see if water got in? My mate put a 5" round inspection port thought his bulkhead to check the floatation chambers he also had to cove and glass the deck down through this hole-there's gotta be an easier way! I suppose if you fill it up with foam or 3/4 of the way from the top, then it doesn't have to be air tight does it? That'd allow for a proper inspection hatch to get at the deck for glassing mounting etc.

You also mentioned putting foam under the coamings. There is a double wall there, back in the cockpit but I was thinking about opening that up and building in rod lockers in there. I'll have to check with the designer about what floatation calculations have been figured in the design. (the build material all has 90% or better boyancy, I'd guess.) I guess the good thing about filling these areas with foam is that air can be displaced with water through a fairly small hole - not true with foam.

Now, you've given me a really good idea for the the tow/winch hook. I've been thinking about those relatively little D brackets with 8mm studs. I could actually use something much larger, like a stainless rod, threaded on both ends and bent in any shape I'd like. Problem is: the lower it is the more impossible it is to reach from the deck. I guess a permanent pennant is the solution as I read in a thread on that topic on this forum, that'd let me get it nice and low but it just seems like an afterthought. However, it could come up through one of the double rollers.

As I said, you've given me much to think about, so....

Thanks guys,

Steve

Steve

stevemid

06-11-2012, 05:47 PM

I'm starting to put in the floors now and I needed a way to bond the floor to the outside of the hull. I could have put in a strip of wood (with its weight and potential for rot) but decided to create some bonding angles out of fibreglass instead.

I made a mould/clamping system out of a couple 4X2's to make two bonding angles at one go which then get sawed apart and trimmed with a jig saw. The sides of the boat flare a bit so I took a sliding bevel and measured the angle. Using a table saw I transfered this angle to both sides of a 4X2. I then ripped another 4X2 in half using the same angle. All three pieces got covered in packing tape. With the pressure of the clamps, all the excess resin gets squeezed out.

The pictures pretty much tell the story. As part of my kit, I got one whole roll of 450 gm/sqm sliced into 100mm sections used for joining all the panels. I had one odd ball slice of only 70mm and I used six 2 meter long strips of this to make the bonding angles, three layers for each side of the 4X2.

stevemid

06-11-2012, 06:36 PM

Here’s the completed queen berth and cabin sole, all glued and taped in, using the bonding angles from the previous post. Making the hatches involved cutting them out with a jig saw, then routing out 5mm of the core material from the edges of the hatches and the floors. This groove then had to be filled with medium density filler to create a nice finish that will stand up to wear and tear. There will be a huge storage area underneath the berth on the starboard side. An electric toilet and holding tank will be installed on the port side, as far forward as possible. The hatch there will be used to access through hulls for the toilet.

chris69

06-11-2012, 11:47 PM

hi there Steve ive missed a bit of your build but have court up with it great turn over job and looks like you have been building at a great pase,cheers chris.

stevemid

20-11-2012, 12:01 AM

Hey Guys, it's time for me to order my fuel & water tanks. Looking around, 2 of the 40 gallon (150 L) Moeller permanent plastic tanks look good and would fit. I'm thinking of the same for fresh water, but from Atlas Tanks who I've had good dealings with in the past. I'd only rarely need to carry this much but then if I need it I'd have it. Any comments on running with these 1/3 full or less most of the time? Is there a Moeller distributor in Aus?

stevemid

20-11-2012, 08:31 PM

I've made a fair bit of progress. All of the 4 main bulkheads are now in. Also completed is the enclosure for the toilet. Holding tank is still a work in progress. I've also installed the 3 pair of intermediates (half bulkheads) which strengthen the hulls and provide support for the floors. The floors will be attached to the bulkheads and the hull sides by 90 degree bonding angles which you can see in these pictures. On the topside floors will be coved and glassed in place. This picture and the next show the bonding angles. This picture is of the underfloor compartments in the Wheelhouse. Port and Starbord 150 litre watertanks will be installed in the forward compartments. The following picture shows the underfloor areas in the cockpit. Two 165 litre Fuel tanks will be installed in the port and starbord forward compartments with the aft ones left for bouyancy compartments and storage. All tanks will be accessible through hatches large enough for inspection /repair/replacement.

To recap the layout, the boat will be 7 metres long. The forward 1 metre is anchor lockers and aft of this are 3, 2 metre areas: the head & berth area, the wheelhouse, and the cockpit. Under the floors, an intermediate bulkhead creates 2 compartments in each hull under each living area measuring 1000mmX 600 mm wide and 800 mm deep.

stevemid

21-11-2012, 05:42 PM

I'm coming to the point where I'll need to glue down the floors therefore tankage decisions have to be made.

The recommended 60L SS Cruisetanks and didn't have nearly the capacity I wanted for my planned travels, trailering to Qld and fishing the reef (assuming that it's not locked up by launch time.) I settled on 2 150 L fuel tanks. Given the boat is light (design is 1250 Kg including 500Kg of people, fuel and stuff,) I'm anticipating 1.3 K/L. That would give me a max range of 390km. For the rest of the year I'm going to be pottering around Sydney. For that and to keep the fuel fresh, I only need small tanks and I'm planning on installing two removable portable tanks of 20L each, leaving the permanent tanks empty unless I go cruising.

I got two quotes, for two 5052 150L aluminium tanks. One was $1750 the other for $2550 that included epoxy coating. On the other hand plastic tanks from the US, 2X 150L cost me $817. delivered.

The ones I chose are the new Moeller Marine tanks which have a bi-layer design to meet the 2012 EPA evaporative emissions law in the US. The inner layer is nylon which is chemically impermeable and the outer layer is XLPE or Cross-linked polyethylene. Moeller have been making these tanks for 2 years now. They have 2800 sold and according to them no warranty claims so far.

I couldn't find a Moeller distributor here that carried this tank, but both Amazon and West Marine are dealers for Moeller. West Marine wanted $349.99 for a tank, and $178.49 FedEx to Australia $528.48 X2 = 1056 total. They were $50 more per tank and $139 more on the shipping.

fandtm666

21-11-2012, 06:16 PM

with the fuel tank give sant marine a call .

i had a moeller and now have a sant marine and they are just as good and aussie made
they have a 180ltr for just under $600

Sant Marine Pty Ltd
75 Hartnett Drive
Seaford VIC 3198.
Australia

http://www.santmarine.com.au/store/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=265

stevemid

21-11-2012, 07:08 PM

Thanks Fantm666
I looked into Sant but I have a 980 mm length limit and Sant's rectangular tanks of any substantial size are all 1200- 1400 mm in length.

Chimo

21-11-2012, 07:51 PM

Hi Steve

Have you considered getting exactly what you want made by an Aussie with ss and al tank building experience?

Cheers
Chimo

stevemid

23-11-2012, 03:51 PM

Hi Steve
Have you considered getting exactly what you want made by an Aussie with ss and al tank building experience?
Cheers
Chimo
Hey Chimo, Yes the two companies I got to quote were ArkMarine in Geebung Qld and D&M Marine in Taren Point.

Steve

Chimo

23-11-2012, 05:02 PM

Hi Steve

How did they compare for rated, pressure tested tanks?

Cheers
Chimo

stevemid

24-11-2012, 02:42 PM

Hey Chimo,
I got two quotes, for two 5052 150L aluminium tanks. One was $1750 the other from Ark Marine for $2550 that included epoxy coating. On the other hand plastic tanks from the US, 2X 150L cost me $817. delivered.

The ones I chose are the new Moeller Marine tanks which have a bi-layer design to meet the 2012 EPA evaporative emissions law in the US. The inner layer is nylon which is chemically impermeable and the outer layer is XLPE or Cross-linked polyethylene. Moeller have been making these tanks for 2 years now. They have 2800 sold and according to them no warranty claims so far.

Given the size of the motors, these tanks probably seem like overkill, however, I'll have the capacity to reach the reef when I travel north and I don't pay a huge weight penalty of leaving them empty pottering around Sydney on removable tanks.

stevemid

24-11-2012, 02:47 PM

Today I roughed in the Steps leading up to the forward deck and the Ring Frame. The centre windscreen opens to allow access to the front deck and these steps lead you up to the opening window. The Ring Frame separates the berth from the toilet area and provides support for the deck. It seems like I’m making a lot of progress but soon I’ll have to stop building and start sanding again.

Dave_H

25-11-2012, 09:45 PM

Just an observation Steve (have been following your progress closely and if I ever find myself in the position to do what you are then I certainly will be....). The progress shots and the steps above look beaut but do you feel the bottom step is deep enough for a foot to find it in a bit of swell?

Regards,

Dave.

stevemid

26-11-2012, 06:57 AM

Hmmm. It IS small and definitely for one foot only. All the tests I've done on mates' boats have been on the trailer.....Your comment leads me to think I'm going to want hand-holds on either side.

edit....
Did some testing with the bottom step today. Actually it is quite secure with the end of the curve on the starbord side and and the wall on the port side, the step actually acts like a stirrup, capturing your foot and giving a secure step up to the next step. I'm happy with it.
Steve

stevemid

29-11-2012, 05:51 PM

The ring frame supports the deck on a fore and aft basis and also supports an athwartships deck brace yet to be installed. But the cutout in the ring frame to allow access to the berth weakens the ring frame leaving only a 90mm section on the upper side. Therefore, the ring frame is strengthened by routing out a 10mm trough of the balsa core and replacing this with a rolled up "sausage" consisting of wetted out unidirectional fibreglass. The following pictures tell the story

stevemid

29-11-2012, 06:34 PM

Simply Amazing...
I ordered my tanks from Amazon (of all places) on Nov. 22. They were delivered yesterday, shipped from the US with a 6 day turn-around. Amazon must have Moeller Tanks really well integrated in their supply chain as the tanks were drop-shipped from Moeller's factory in Tennessee! Here's the UPS tracking info. In the middle of this I also got two emails from Amazon estimating then confirming a delivery date, which they hit exactly. Interestingly on the 27th when there was a problem delivering to my local news agency, I got an email on the morning of the 28th from Amazon telling me to contact UPS. I called the UPS service centre and the parcels were delivered that afternoon. That is simply the most amazing service around a potential stuff-up that could possibly happen.

Date Time Location Event Details
November 28, 2012 01:47:00 PM Fairlight AU Delivered
November 28, 2012 12:08:00 PM Botany AU Shipment forwarded to a different delivery address
November 27, 2012 09:00:00 PM Botany AU Incorrect address
November 27, 2012 11:05:00 AM Botany AU Shipment forwarded to a different delivery address
November 26, 2012 02:34:00 PM Botany AU Arrived at destination country
November 26, 2012 02:34:00 PM Botany AU Arrival Scan
November 26, 2012 02:34:00 PM Botany AU Arrived at destination country
November 25, 2012 04:50:00 PM Botany AU Arrival Scan
November 24, 2012 12:31:00 PM Botany AU Initiated customs clearance process
November 24, 2012 12:31:00 PM Botany AU Completed customs clearance process
November 24, 2012 12:31:00 PM Botany AU Initiated customs clearance process
November 24, 2012 10:49:00 AM Honolulu HI US Departure Scan
November 24, 2012 08:39:00 AM Honolulu HI US Arrival Scan
November 24, 2012 04:38:00 AM Louisville KY US Departure Scan
November 24, 2012 12:49:00 AM Louisville KY US Arrival Scan
November 24, 2012 12:01:00 AM Knoxville TN US Departure Scan
November 23, 2012 09:11:00 PM Louisville TN US Arrival Scan
November 23, 2012 09:09:00 PM Louisville TN US Shipment received by carrier

While I was waiting for the tanks I spent the interim time looking for fuel gauge senders and fittings etc but was surprised when I opened the boxes, they were all already installed and tested to 3 PSI. This is the most positive retail experience I have every had. Here's the pics and the positioning in the port hull. With the tank in thw position shown I can run the fill pipe up through fixed deck seats on both sides to the coaming. (This also allows me to move an oversized tank forward a few inches. If I flopped it end for end, I'd have access to all the fittings through the deck hatch, but I'd have to put the filler in the floor of the cockpit - I'd rather keep the petrol fill outside the boat. Any suggestions from the brains trust?
Steve

stevemid

11-12-2012, 05:24 AM

I got so sick of fairing while doing the hulls that I’ve decided to fair as I go on building out the inside of the boat. Therefore, I fully faired the inside of the toilet enclosure and the shelf/locker above as I built them — all the way to painting and sanding the hi-build. Sanding is much easier to do when you’ve got good access, ie before the tops and fronts get put on. On the shelf/locker above the bunk, I built and faired this on the bench, then installed it. Now I only will have to fair over the installation glass. I’m going to paint hi-gloss in the toilet area and carpet the berth area.

You can see a 3” square cutout in the ringframe and the step. This is where I’ll lead the electrical and pluming from the port sponson up into the wheelhouse. I’m building the conduit tomorrow and will post a picture.

stevemid

19-12-2012, 06:22 PM

Advice on High Build Primer
I've been using Wattyl High Build (Epinamel EP250) primer and putting it on with a roller. However, it seems I have to sand off 75% to get below all the orange peel I'm getting. So I've been thinking about buying a spray gun kit from supercheap to see if that will be more effective.

Any advice on spraying on the high-build would be appreciated. I've got one of the Bunnings $100. air compressors with the dual gauges. If I go ahead and get the spray gun kit, would I have to spend any more on filters etc for the air compressor? I am "fairing as I go" so I wouldn't be spraying a lot of surface in one go.

Alternatively, going back to the rollers, any advice on reducing the amount of orange peel with the roller?

Thanks again for the help.
Steve

fandtm666

19-12-2012, 06:40 PM

when spraying the high build during my resto i have been using a putty gun
and has worked well.Also make sure your compressor is half decent atleast
8cfm FAD ( free air delivery ) otherwise you will have it starting to run out
of air and it will start to splutter the primer on.

Jarrah Jack

19-12-2012, 07:08 PM

The trick with using a roller in my industry ( furniture) is to roll it on then brush over with a very fine quality brush. You can play a bit with the thickness of paint to get the correct run and flow. I'd try that before mucking around with a gun. The brush strokes should all be in the same direction. There's a certain finesse there but its no difficult to get the hang of it.

Love what you're doing BTW.

Chimo

19-12-2012, 08:12 PM

Steve

Not sure if it would work with the hi build coat that your using but for what its worth.............. I was talking to and older bloke than me who was telling me how he and his mates used to paint their cars with paint brushes and get a spray like finish. All he said they did was to stick the cans of enamel they were to use in really hot water to get them to flow nicely off their brush. Maybe you could try this with your job to reduce your issue.

Merry Xmas

Chimo

Swanie1975

19-12-2012, 08:43 PM

Like chimo suggested I think you would be better off experimenting with heat and more so the thinning of the primer. As you are going to be doing small patches as you are working it will be a bit of a pain in the butt to mask areas off each time you spray and it will take a fair few coats of sprayed primer to equal the thickness of a rolled coat. Also breathing gear to be worn and ventilation to be considered.

I hear what you are saying about the orange peel as the boys at work trialled the roll on primer for a while and they found it was a bit of extra work sanding down but no overspray or masking required balanced it out (almost). If you do go for a spray gun setup find one that has different tip sizes so you can change it for later top coating.

I gotta say I admire the way you've gone at the project and can appreciate the man hours involved in it. Great thread too.

I remember about 20 yrs ago working with an old fella (then 70ish) and watching him brush paint an old mg in enamel and when it had flowed out and dried the finish was bloody amazing.

Cheers Ryan

stevemid

20-12-2012, 02:18 PM

Fandtm666, JarrahJack, Chimo, Swannie1975
Thanks very much for the input. On thinking about it, I suppose spraying is a whole other 'learning curve' also known as can of worms. (thinking, filters, driers, more CFM even before we get to knowing how to use the thing.) Still, it's always tempting to buy another tool!

I did try tipping off the high build on the hulls and that did help some- but thinking back it might have need a bit of thinners then too. I was being cheap because the local Wattyl dealer only had 4 Litre tins and it's max 5% thinners. But I will try the thinner first, then if that doesn't work I'll try the hot water - but I'm a bit concerned about what heating will do to pot life which halves from 4 hours to 2 when increasing ambient temperature from 25 to 35 degrees, especially since I usually need to roll on 4 coats to get required thickness. Oh well: onwards and upwards!

Steve

Chimo

20-12-2012, 02:27 PM

Heat small batches Steve. Let us know what happens.

C

stevemid

20-12-2012, 03:30 PM

Well I think I've sorted out my conduit to get power and water from the port side under the settee to the starboard helm station and galley. This is the "before" picture. The problem is that the top of the tunnel forms the floor of the cabin. I couldn't get from left to right without creating a "hump." The diagonal you see in the picture is the uni reinforced section the main forward bulkhead which has been cut away to allow access down into the port sponson to access the head and the berth. You can see the rectangular holes that I cut in for the conduit.
87287
This next pictures show the conduit across the foot of the berth, which will be hidden by the mattress. This leads to the starbord side where I can go through the main forward bulkhead and into a cabinet. From here I can take electrical wiring to the helm station and I can access the galley with a water hose from the port fresh water tank. From here, I'll also take the sink drain back to the port sponson through-hull. I've left myself pulling covers on both ends because in addition to everything else I'll be pushing 1" hose through here.
87284 87286
This final picture one shows the conduit adjacent to the cutaway section of the bulkhead. This doesn't add additional interference to the step down and being glasse-in it strengthens the bulkhead.
Below the step, I've made a cover to hide the hoses going down through the sole where I will Tee into a through-hull for the toilet. This will also be glassed in and will support the step and the bulkhead.
87285

chris69

20-12-2012, 06:00 PM

hi there steve i see your high building and haveing fun too,yes it does seem like a waste to put it on then sand it off,thinning out and doing and tac coat when its flashed off might be better to build it up quicker and use a high densitey foam roller,just change them before they break down on you and you should get a less orange peel finish,i hope this helps cheers Chris.

Clonoid

20-12-2012, 06:44 PM

Going great Steve, I'd forgotten about this thread and just read all of it from page 2 onwards !

stevemid

21-12-2012, 04:30 PM

Clonoid, Good on ya. I wish looking forward went as fast as looking back! Chris69, thanks I'll give that a try too. I'm liking fairing as I go, I don't have that buildup of crap I don't like to do.

stevemid

02-01-2013, 06:06 PM

I've been wanting to build out the wheelhouse but I had a fair bit of under-floor work: fairing, sealing, plumbing and electrical stuff to think out before I started with the conduits. I had to figure out where all the cabinetry and the table pedestal base went so I would know where I could put access hatches. Although seldom used because I'll have to lift up the flooring to get at them, these hatches will let me inspect all the under-floor areas later.

[edit 4 Jan 13]: To begin with I sanded then faired all the fibreglass joins in the four under-floor compartments under the wheelhouse. ( I want to be able to run my hand in ANY compartment anywhere on the boat without worry about cutting my hand on a sharp spot.) Then I applied 3 coats of clear epoxy, sanding between coats to eliminate runs and high spots.
I laid in the main conduits - two on the starboard side for engine controls, hydraulic steering and fresh water to the transom shower and one on port side to carry battery cables to the motors, saltwater washdown and the power up to the helm station switch panel . In the following picture, the conduit stubbed up on the port side comes up through the floor at the battery box (on the cerntre line under an "L" shaped settee) which is marked out in red.
87823
This done, I installed and plumbed the two 100L bladder water tanks, crossing over through the berth conduit described in the previous post. In this picture a red semicircle shows the extent of the galley return which also forms the back of the helm station.
87822
Now that I'm sure all the plumbing suits, I'll put mousing cables in all the conduits, put down the floors and start building the galley, settee and table. In this next pictures you can see the filler hoses which will terminate on SS fillers set in the gunwale.
8782087821

Chimo

02-01-2013, 06:48 PM

Looking good Steve. Have a happy and productive 2013. Do you have any idea of completion month?

Cheers
Chimo

cormorant

02-01-2013, 07:35 PM

Looking great . When you buy the stainless fillers put a smaller insert piece of stainless pipe in it for the water ones so a fuel bowser cannot get in them only a standard hose fits. I think you know why. Never let the marina boy fill up your boat with fuel and water.

A bolt or welded bar sideways through your fuel ones 10cm down will stop anyone pumping you empty unless they use a very small hose.

stevemid

02-01-2013, 08:50 PM

Thanks cormorant; once again, good advice born I'm sure of painful experience. Chimo, I'd hate to guess at a completion date. At this time it's like looking down a pipe and pulling out one turd at a time. For now I've got to finish building out the furniture - The helm station, galley, settee, a box for a fridge and two long iceboxes as seats in the cockpit and two lockers in the cockpit against the wheelhouse bulkhead. Then I've got to fit the inner walls and the floors in the cockpit and install the deck, the gunwales the cabin sides and the cabin top (don't forget to run LED light wires in the kerfs in the cabin top.) Then there's the fairing and the painting after which I have to order and install the front opening window and the door and the four opening hatches. Then there's the fitting out: steering, electrics, lights, stove, fridge and plumbing. Before I started writing this I was thinking end of March. Now, I'm not so sure. Put it this way: in three months, I'll be able to make a much more educated guess than I can today.

Happy New Year to everyone and thanks everyone for your comments, and advice; it's much appreciated.

Steve

Chimo

02-01-2013, 09:17 PM

So Steve at least we now have the to do list so we can all help by ticking off stuff as you get it done! It is certainly going to worth it in not too much time. Did the other one eventually get sold?

Cheers
Chimo

stevemid

03-01-2013, 06:11 AM

No, haven't sold the sailboat yet. Prices are so low I can't bear it. I suppose I should bite the bullet.
A man with 2 boats and only 1 wife....
Steve

Chimo

03-01-2013, 06:53 AM

Actually I meant the one like what your building that was built by the guy who passed away?
Re yours: I don't think a person can actually have too many boats...............;D

C
C

stevemid

04-01-2013, 09:16 PM

Wheelhouse floors, hatches, and layout.

Chimo, I don't even think the other Spirited 230 has put it on the market yet. I need to talk to her about doing sea trials as I'm dying to know the performance of the Honda 4st 40HP's.
Steve

Apollo

05-01-2013, 06:44 AM

This build is a real credit to you Steve and I am loving reading through the thread as it goes along. We built a 23' trailer sailer about 15 years ago in strip plank WRC and enjoyed the challenge and it turned out a treat and was very quick. With regards to setting a completion date, we use to say it would be finish on Sunday. Just never specified which one. Yep, it got launched on a Sunday and took 18mths to build part time.

All the best and look forward to the continual read and perhaps seeing it in the flesh one time.

Steve

stevemid

13-01-2013, 11:36 AM

I began construction of the galley this week. This started out as a 3 metre long face plate and two "L" shaped pieces which form a shelf and the top of the cabinet. The faceplate starts against the starboard hull side and wraps around the shelf. It is kerfed to effect a 180 degree bend around the return and then kerfed on the opposite side of the "L" to effect a 90 degree bend and finishes against the aft wheelhouse bulkhead. Here's a picture of the faceplate showing the location of the kerfs and what it looks like installed

88106

88103
88107
Before setting this up I routered out and filled openings for 4 cabinet access hatches using this procedure in the following picture. The router only takes out the top skin of glass and the core material leaving the inner glass skin. A perfect line is then drawn in the centre of the fill area and the doors cut out leaving a perfectly fitting flush door.
88102
8810488105

I have now glassed the shelf and the top to the faceplate. Next week I'll remove the cabinet to the bench where I'll finish taping the joins. Then I'll fair the lot, cut out the cabinet doors, and install it back in the boat taping it to the galley floor and the hullsides.

Tarnport

04-02-2013, 11:00 PM

Hi Steve,
I have read all of your posts concerning this build after having come across the Ausfish forum while searching the web for more info on the Spirited 230. I have been considering this design for quiet a while and will be following your future build updates routinely. I am also an ex yachtie and was wondering why you chose the outboard version as against the diesel shaft driven inboard version (e.g., a yanmar 55hp)? Thanks again for your posts and I cant wait for your review once launched.
Tarn

stevemid

05-02-2013, 07:08 AM

Diesel wasn't an option, to my knowledge at the time I bought. The Arvor 20 with its diesel single screw was the boat that originally got me started thinking about an economical fishing boat.

if you'd like a discussion you might start a thread on how a single diesel can be implemented on a cat and the trade offs involved. It sounds good to me, but there is heaps of experience on this forum. I'm sure someone would question the HP
Steve

stevemid

09-02-2013, 07:52 AM

Well, while you bas%$rds have been out fishin', I've been seeing to it that I have a permanently cool spot for for my toohey's newies.

The problem I had to solve with the fridge is that the cabinet for it is only 335mm deep. This meant a normal fridge was going to stick out into the walkway. Since I don't like a front opening fridge anyway, I decided to build in a top loader. The deepest I could have it was 235mm taking off 50mm front and back for insulation. So I made it 235X400X750=70 litres.

The other problem I had is it's practically impossible to mount an evaporator inside an already built top loader. So I decided to build mine with the back off, then fair and paint (all but the joining edges of the back panel), then install the evaporator, Then install the back and lastly cove, fair and paint the join lines for the back.

I bought a sheet of 50mm green urethane foam from FGI. I have a mate who works in a timbre yard with a big sliding panel table saw and we used this to get the foam sections cut perfectly rectangular. I then glassed one side of each panel and glued the front and sides into the cabinet. I then cut out the opening for the access lid and installed a solid frame to keep the top from falling into the fridge. Then I press fit the top insulation panel into place and cut out the opening to this with a jigsaw and sanded it to round the edges. I then glued, glassed and faired the top insulation panel.

This done I then painted the lot except for the masked off 20mm strips where the back had to be coved in to join with the sides, top and bottom.

I bought an Isotherm refrigeration kit from Keogh's Marine and installed the evaporator on glued in 20mm mounting strips made from 8 layers of glass. (The single layer of glass covering the foam wouldn't have been enough to hold a screw.

Finally, I glued in the back and had a great time reaching into the fridge blind to cove the corners. The join with the top was especially tricky since I couldn't see it. (I ended up taking pictures with the phone to inspect the work in progress. One of these shots shows the shaped top opening.

Fun and games.

Steve

Chimo

09-02-2013, 08:09 AM

Like the fridge Steve. It seems to be going well. How goes the trailer and car / truck hunt?
Still planning on being finished on Sunday?

When you started these were not out yet, it looks interesting but for the $s http://www.arvor.com.au/weekender/

Cheers
Chimo

Rip it up

09-02-2013, 08:32 AM

Hey Steve. Love the build. Balsa is a great product to work with.

What paint did you use inside the fridge? Just curious as I would like to build an esky out of epoxy soon and want a durable finish inside.

Cheers Damo.

stevemid

09-02-2013, 12:54 PM

Chimo, Yep, still working toward Sunday for completion. I've stopped looking for tow vehicle/trailer. What I've spent so far plus what I know I have to spend just recently went over what I had set aside for the build. I'm currently at about 80K, with insurance, shed and tools about 10k of that. I suppose they want, what about 120 for the 23.5 ft Arvor?

Damo, I used the 2 pack Alexseal that I bought to paint the boat. It is nice and shines like crazy so should be easy to clean. I also used this in the toilet enclosure for the same reason. I'm sure any 2pack would be equally good.

BTW what kind of paint would you guys use in an anchor locker?

Chimo

09-02-2013, 01:11 PM

Steve

They seem to be asking 115 for the Arvor Weekender and to that you would need instruments and some stainless to support the sunbrella from the back of the cab to the stern. Cruisat 18 tops out at 22 kn. Whats a 150 Cummins like? Instruments, how long is a bit of string these days. Bimini probably a couple of K. Guess you up for the same with yours especially if your heading up this way.

Anchor locker, why not some weather shield gloss off the house and line it with square holed camping flooring to absorb the bangs. Then you can at least empty it out and dry it as needed between trips plus see if theres any touch up work needed.

Cheers
Chimo

Stewey

09-02-2013, 04:56 PM

Flowcoat it steve. Thicker than paint and harder.

Stewey

stevemid

09-02-2013, 05:39 PM

Flowcoat it steve. Thicker than paint and harder.

Stewey

So will flowcoat which is polyester, stick ok to epoxy-based fairing compound?
Steve

Stu Dows

09-02-2013, 08:11 PM

Hey Steve Great build I have watched quietly for a while now and it just occurred to me that the build anniversary is next Wednesday happy birthday mate in advance

stevemid

10-02-2013, 07:17 AM

Thanks Stu,
Actually, I've been thinking a lot about the anniversary coming up and have been pushing to get a lot done by the date. (crazy, I know) I even pushed out the date to 1 March in my mind because there was quite a bit of work to do on the shed starting on 1 Feb. I went back to the pictures and the time stamp on the 1st picture of the kit is 23 Feb...so that's the date.

For the first six months, used to tell people that I spent 1/3 of my time figuring out how to do something, a third of the time doing it, and a third fixing screw-ups. Now I'm mostly 100% productive so things are going faster. I reckon I'll finish the cabin, including rough fairing, prior to the 23rd. I put in the galley cabinet yesterday and rough fit the helm station, the last bit of the cabin- so rewarding seeing it all come together.
Steve

Stewey

10-02-2013, 08:51 AM

So will flowcoat which is polyester, stick ok to epoxy-based fairing compound?Steve

In short Steve, Yes.

This may be of some help to you.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/polyester-over-epoxy

Stewey

stevemid

14-02-2013, 02:34 PM

Today I finished building and installing the last two pieces of the helm station; that being the sloping helm station, which will house, electronic instruments, the steering wheel, gauges, and switch panels and the RHS (right hand side) cabinet on which will sit the forward engine controls.

As with the galley, I built the cabinet on the bench which allowed me to fair the fibreglass joins on the inside of the cabinet prior to installing. I also put in conduit from the helm station down through the floor for electrical & hydraulic steering lines and also created a conduit on the RHS to run the throttle and shift cables.

I also put on the first coat of fairing compound on the helm station and the joins where the galley is taped to the floor and bulkhead 3. Once I sand this off and fill & fair once or twice more, I can move to the cockpit.

MyWay

15-02-2013, 07:36 PM

stevemid
this staircase next to steering wheel or dashboard, where are they going? Through window to get out on front deck ,or you will have one more level ?
it is hard to tale from this stage looking at photo,
but you doing very good job
keep posting

myway

stevemid

16-02-2013, 06:52 AM

MyWay, that staircase leads up through a big opening front window to the front deck. From the pictures it makes it look like the stairs lead to the starboard side because the pic was taken from the port side, but actually the stairs go straight forward.
Steve

stevemid

22-02-2013, 06:48 PM

The fist thing to do in the cockpit was to install the fuel tanks. I made up bases consisting of a platform and two webs. I cut 120mm holes in the platform to be able to glass the webs to the bottom of the sponsons. In order to make a solid home for the hold-down screws, I used a hole saw to remove the bottom skin and core under the locations of the clamps which hold down the tanks. This hole I filled with a mixture of cabosil, chopped glass and resin. I sized the platforms with a gap forward and aft so I could see what was going on underneath.
8925989266
89265
892648926389262

stevemid

28-02-2013, 04:07 PM

My latest effort was to make two hatches for the floor of the cockpit to access the large volume of storage in the sponsons behind the fuel tanks. I decided against putting kill tanks under these hatches and instead built a gutter system to divert any water that seeps in around the hatches. Firstly, I re-glassed the original hatches and cut out new hatches centred over the sponsons. These first two pictures show the original holes and the new ones.
8939089388

To build the gutters, the first step was to build a build a mould using left over foam. I laid up 4 layers of glass over the form to make the gutters strong enough to support the weight of someone standing on the hatch. I then mitred the corners, fit the gutters and glassed the corners inside and out. That done, I glued the gutters to the underside of the cockpit floors. Final step was to install a skin fitting on the aft end of the gutter to carry water out to a thru-hull. That done, I glued down the floors. Tomorrow, I'll glass in the floors.
89391893898938689387

Chimo

28-02-2013, 04:15 PM

Have you sorted out your motors yet?
Chimo

stevemid

28-02-2013, 06:00 PM

Have you sorted out your motors yet?
Chimo

No I haven't sorted out my motors yet. I'm like a boat with the wheel hard over: going around in circles.

The new motors that I really want (70 Yammies) are a stretch, financially. That's what got me thinking about used motors. However, after much agonising I just could not bring myself to put used (1200 hours) motors on my new boat.

As an alternative I could save a lot of money by dropping down to a 40 4st's. However, the Yammie dealer convinced me to build the motor wells to suit an extra long 25" leg, (Raise up the engines a bit he said and get them up out of the mist created by the tunnel.) However, extra long legs are only available in a 60 Zuk, the 70 Yammie and maybe a 50 Honda on which I've had a good offer that I'm considering. Then again I could easily cut down the motor wells, but that would be going backwards.

The other alternative I'm considering is to delay spending $10K on non-essentials such as a winch, solar panels, Lifeline AGM batteries, etc. I can always add these things later.

In the end I stop thinking about it and just go back to building the next bit of the boat which is more rewarding that agonising over $%&^##@!! motors. Anyway, I probably have a solid month to go before I paint the boat and actually need the motors. So I just keep building.
Steve

stevemid

07-03-2013, 04:38 PM

I'm continuing to work on the cockpit. After making gutters for the access hatches and glueing down the floors, I needed to start on the inner walls. This required installing the gunnels which are attached to the forward deck and the positioning of this required the cabin fronts and sides (ie everything but the roof) to be positioned. So....I tacked everything in and now have the final shape of the boat. I'll put up a picture of that but realise that everything is just tacked into position temporarily. However I did screw down the deck to see how much camber there is in that. Have a look!
89512

Chimo

07-03-2013, 04:54 PM

Looking good Steve.

How much eyebrow / forward overhang are you planning for the roof? Be nice to shade those big front panes and the gear sitting on the dash IMHO?

Cheers
Chimo

caravellerob

07-03-2013, 07:44 PM

Steve love the lines of this boat looking good.

stevemid

07-03-2013, 08:50 PM

Steve love the lines of this boat looking good.
Thanks Rob.

Chimo, in the plans, not much front overhang, maybe 100mm. However, aft, the roof overhangs all but about 300mm of the cockpit; I've been thinking the roof as designed may interfere with fishing so I've been toying with the idea of sliding the roof forward. That would also do away with the suggested roof supports which will definitely get in the way aft.
Steve

chris69

08-03-2013, 12:09 AM

Looking great there Steve ,like the way yo have done the hatches with the gutters and a great pic of it side on its got nice lines cheers Chris.

Chimo

08-03-2013, 06:39 AM

stevemid

08-03-2013, 08:28 AM

That sounds like a plan. How far forward can you go? You would probably need to instal forward supports too.
The rear shade etc can achieved with a fold forward (out of the way) sunbrella bimini so you can have the best of both worlds which is what all GOMs should aim for.

C
C
Yea I'm worried about loosing shade in the back when cruising. How does a fold forward Bimini work? Where does it lay when it is down? Across the access to the duckboard? Anybody got any pictures of that sort of setup?

They say you only need supports in the back if you have weight up there. The roof has a fair bit of camber to the sides so I reckon that'd be ok.

Steve

Chimo

08-03-2013, 10:16 AM

Mine folds forwards towards the hardtop.

stevemid

15-03-2013, 07:04 PM

I've been playing with a power distribution wiring diagram for this boat. I realise this is a bit more basic than most setups that I see here for this size boat. As always, I appreciate any and all comments/ suggestions for improvements. My objectives /comments re this design:
1. Simplicity: it is not complicated or expensive to implement and maintain. Turn two switches on when boarding, two off when leaving. One Emergency switch to join batteries temporarily for starting
2. Reliability: one battery / alternator dedicated to starting motors and has no other way of being discharged
3. One battery per motor/alternator, avoiding the problems with 2 alternators charging the same battery/battery bank.
4. Redundancy. Either battery can start either motor
5. Solar Panel planned is monocrystlaline flex panels 3mm thick, glued to the roof.

Risks or negatives:
1. Batteries can be switched off with motors running, damaging alternators.
2. No automatic limit on excessively depleting house battery (could be fixed by supplying switch panel from solar controller.)
Comments?
89673

Steve

Chimo

15-03-2013, 07:35 PM

Alternatively one battery per motor and one house battery charged off one motor and a second house battery charged off the second motor. Still retain the ability of connecting the motor batteries and also have the ability to connect the house batteries also if ever required. An Auto Battery Coupler set up for each motor battery and its house battery. This Steve is how I have my boat set up but I only use one ABC to charge one house battery and sometimes two house batteries if I carry the second one and connect it to the first house battery. Have had to join the motor batteries one when one motor battery failed so started that motor with the connected good battery and when the "crook" motor side was going uncoupled and started the other one as normal. Works a treat. Adding one or two solar panels to charge each house battery should be fine too as the ABC worries about the motor batteries rather than the house.

I dont think you should glue solar panels to the roof. They need air space below them.

Cheers
Chimo

stevemid

16-03-2013, 05:27 AM

Hi Chimo,
Yes, I've heard that some of the panels don't perform so well when they get hot, thus the offset. However, the mono ones are made flexible to conform to the surface they are on. They have no frame etc. For looks, I don't really like the idea of a 40mm frame on spacers sticking up from the roof; rather have it hidden and take what juice I can get.

I've done a basic inventory of my planned power consumption. With a light boat is you have work to keep it light. At least on the first go, I'm going to limit myself to two batteries. The 'house' battery I have spec'd is a 150AH Full River AGM or equivalent.

stevemid

31-03-2013, 06:52 AM

Moving to the cockpit, the things that needed to be built were the seating and corner cabinets; these also cover the access to the fuel tank connections. An inner wall around the sides of the cockpit had to be built. This met up with and formed a "doubler" with the vertical piece above the gunnel which extended back from the cabin sides. The gunnels extended back from the front deck halves and wrapped all the way around to cover the transom, touching almost every part of the boat.

After dry fitting the forward decks and the cabin fronts and sides, I started out by separating the gunnel from the fore deck. I glassed the outside of the cabin side to the gunnel, then removed both pieces and glassed the underside of this join.

I then re-installed this piece and glassed it to the inside of the hull. This was easy in the cockpit, but in the cabin, I had to cut access holes in the settee. The plans called for two layers of glass on the outside of the join, but I felt better having this glassed on to the outside and the inside.
901489014790149

This is the almost finished cockpit. I haven't glassed in the corner cabinet yet because I'm unsure of how to sequence attaching the fuel and water fillers which sit on the gunnel just in the front corner of the cockpit: If I install them now, they'll be in the way of fairing and painting. The cutouts for the fillers are too small for the clamps to fit through from the top so I can't install them from the top down, after fairing and painting. I'll probably have to make 2 cutouts in the inner hull adjacent to the fillers. After fairing and painting the outside, I'll attach the hoses to the fillers and breathers, then glass in the cutout, then paint the inside of the cockpit.
90151901529015390150
Finishing the motor wells are the next project, but first I have to install the aft cleats so I can get at the backing block and the nuts before I close up the transom.

Happy Easter everyone!
Steve

Stewey

31-03-2013, 08:24 AM

Hi Steve, instead of glassing in the access cutouts for the fittings, why not install a or some spinouts for these instead. That way it is easier to access these connections in the future, if you need. Personally i prefer to leave access available to all hidden connections.

Instead of spinouts, maybe use a hatch ring frame and use a sikaflex bead to reseal the cutout. This is a cheaper option than spinouts, although slightly more permanent. If, and when, you need access to these connections, it is just a matter of cutting sikaflex and removing cutout.

Stewey

Lovey80

31-03-2013, 05:44 PM

This has been a fantastic thread and an absolute credit to you for your persistence and workmanship. Have you decided on the motors yet? If not my vote is to go as large as the weight will allow.

stevemid

01-04-2013, 06:41 AM

Stewey,
That's a great comment, I don't know why I was thinking of sealing these up. Will do some kind of cover for sure.

Lovey80
Thanks. For motors, (remembering this is a 700kg hull with 1250 displacement) I'm supposed to stay around 100Kg each. However I built 25" motor wells so that limits me to Honda 50 or 60, or the Suzuki 60 or the Yamaha 70 which is heaviest at 117 dry weight. Still weighing up the options.

Fed

01-04-2013, 07:53 AM

stevemid

01-04-2013, 03:09 PM

I'll visit the electrical for you Steve if you can give your proposed loadings and intended usage. (Trailer, moored, daytrips. overnighters?)

Don't think your 50A fuses will cut it with the starter motors, in fact why even have them?

Good plan, keep it simple.

Fed,
Well, if there's a direct short I want to A. not start a fire and B. protect the wiring. Do other people run unfused wires to the engines and to the switch panel? I didn't think that'd be kosher. I haven't got the motor rigging kits yet so I didn't know what size wires there I'd have to protect.

My loadings are minimal. I have a BD30 compressor for the fridge. A 3.0A sounder, a stereo, LED nav and house lights and other minor odds and sods that would be intermittant only. That would all come off the house battery. If I install an anchor winch, that'd come of the start battery and I'd only run that with the engine running.
Steve

stevemid

01-04-2013, 03:30 PM

I had this question from Yallis on a "self draining cockpit" thread where I was suggesting that for offshore work I'd want substantial scuppers,

What are you building?
Scuppers below the waterline i imagine? With duck bills?

Yallis: I used to call my boarding platform the duckbill thus the confusion. I've edited my response to you below. Sorry.

My boarding platform is an extension of the cockpit floor which is about 450mm above design waterline. Scuppers would sit on the floor. There is a 100mm ledge between the cockpit and the boarding platform. If I were to get pooped, water would rush out the 500mm wide opening to the boarding platform (see picture from yesterday's update) and would leave 100mm of water to drain out the scuppers (which would be at floor level. 100mm of water in a 2M X2M cockpit would be 400 litres and weigh about 400Kg.

Fed

02-04-2013, 09:48 AM

No one fuses engine cables Steve but by all means there should be a fuse for the switch panel.

Not that it would ever happen but if you did have 400 Litres of water in the cockpit half of it would go over the big opening due to the slope and the remaining 200 Litres would very quickly be handled by the 2x50 mm floor scuppers.

How do the floor scuppers drain, you'd think they would have just put a couple of holes in the transom, your floor is way higher than the water level.

cormorant

02-04-2013, 10:25 AM

Steve the duckbill he is talking about are rubber hoses connected to scuppers. In smaller boats that were on trailers they used to manufacture a rubber hose that was flattened on the trailing edge .( looked like a ducks bill). The ducks bill used to trail in the water when the boat was planing and venturi effect would suck water out the scupper. Smallest piece of sand or grit or ageing rubber would mean these duckbills would weep or flood water back into the boat when stationary. These days what people are doing ( see a stabicraft) they are using a length of nitrile/ pvc flat fire-hose attached to the scupper at one end and the other having a eyelet through it and when required tieing the trailing edge above water level or letting it down to act as a ducksbill and suck water out. . The flat hose kinks as soon as a following wave hits it and stops a following wave pushing water back on your deck. Sewing piece of foam to the end of the hose means it floats the hose when at rest and stops the week into the deck and on the plane automatically lets water out.

an old thread with some links

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?168717-scupper-or-no-scupper-s-!-!&

http://www.reelax.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=269&products_id=1038&osCsid=5ff0d72fb79054ded267a59ee3129736

The Woo

02-04-2013, 11:31 AM

Enjoyed reading your updates Steve. You're doing a superb job mate, the finish looks excellent!

stevemid

02-04-2013, 03:19 PM

Thanks guys,
Fed,
By my reckoning at 2M X2M X.1 M (the height of the walk-through lip above the floor,) I'd have 400 L left in the cockpit. My plans show two 50mm conduits, level with the floor out through the inner wall then the transom. The inner wall is setback 180mm across the back, to create space for the motors when tilted (pics coming.) This also leaves space to install cockpit showers and deck wash either side of the walkway.

Cormorant,
Thanks for clearing that up.

Woo, I've been fairing as I go, but what you see in the cockpit looks better in the photo than it is in reality. I have 1st sanded the glassed joins but the fairing happens this week.

Thanks guys,
Steve

stevemid

08-04-2013, 08:59 AM

Here's a couple pictures of the completed motor wells. The hole at the bottom is to access the bottom engine mounting bolts; this will be covered by a watertight inspection port. The hole at the top is to access the stern cleat bolts and hopefully I can run the engine control cables out here too.

I built the motor wells while the hull was still upside down and I've included several pictures of these being built as well. The 25mm ply sides were first glued and coved on to the transom which is 3 layers of Duflex laminated together. A hole was drilled in each side and unidirectional fibreglass was laid in to bond the side of the motor well to the transom. A layer of 400 double bias was laid over the uni on both sides of the motor well and on the inside of the transom. Then the sides were glassed on to the transom with three layers of double bias (100, 200,& 300 wide) inside and out. Finally a double plywood (50mm) back was glassed onto the sides; again with three layers of glass.
90562905639056890566905679056590564

Chimo

08-04-2013, 10:59 AM

Hi Steve

Looking good. Have you sorted engine yet? What about the weight of these? http://www.evinrude.com/Content/Pdf/en-AU/SpecSheets/Evinrude_ETEC_75_HP_Spec.pdf?version=1386

Cheers
Chimo

PS http://www.australianmarinecentre.com.au/motors/evinrude-e-tec-75-hp-l/

or http://www.evinrude.com/Content/Pdf/en-AU/SpecSheets/Evinrude_ETEC_60_HP_Spec.pdf?version=1386

stevemid

20-04-2013, 10:40 AM

It is a cold, rainy southerly blowing kind of day here on the Central Coast today. Better day to sit at the computer and talk about it rather than to open the shed door (faces S.) and actually do it.
9148891487
I finally got the deck and cabin done this week. Actually glassing on the cabin front and the deck and gunnels inside and out only took two days. BUT there was a lot of work underneath that I wanted to get done before closing everything up. Such as:

Sort out foam for collision/floatation chambers
Fair & paint anchor lockers
Fair underside of the deck (easier on the bench than doing it over my head in the boat.)
Install 40mm WRC supports under joins in the cabin front.
Holes in gunnels for fuel
Fuel tank connections.

To foam or not foam floatation chambers
I've been mulling this over for months. If you put in expanding foam, you cant get it out to inspect. If you don't put in foam or something in a water tight chamber, if the chamber is holed, water gets in and you sink. I came up with the idea to line the floatation chamber with black plastic and pour in the expanding foam in sections. That way if I ever had to get in there, I could cut a rectangular hole in the bulkhead and pull out the floatation bit by bit. I went so far as to line the chambers, and buy the foam but I just could not bring myself to pour in the foam. It was always going to be a major operation to get the foam out, even in pieces and I'd never get it back in with the deck on. In the end I decided to cut two 6" inspection holes to each floatation chamber, one from the anchor locker and one in the bulkhead that separates the floatation chambers from the berth area. I've found some very large plastic bags (about 4' by 6'). I'm going to stuff these in the inspection port and fill them with styrofoam packing peanuts. Then I'll tie off the bag and screw in the port covers. The bag will keep the peanuts from absorbing any moisture and I can always vacuum out the peanuts and have a look-see inside.

In this next picture you see the floatation chamber before I cut in the 6" inspection ports. Also shown in the WRC battens I installed. The deck is curved down to the bow and also has a fair bit of camber athwartships, and it takes a fair bit of pressure to force it down. I installed these red cedar battens to give me something to screw into when I first glued down (with cabosil-thickened epoxy) the deck. The glue held the deck in place while I got ready to glass it on the outside. Later, after I cut in the anchor locker hatches, I can use the inspection ports to glass the inside joins.
9149291493
This next picture is of the anchor lockers. I had asked earlier for ideas on what to paint this with (thanks for the inputs). Since I'm coming to the end of the build-the-shell phase and have a fair bit of material left over, I decided to fair these and then coat them with three coats of neat epoxy. I'll probably line the bottoms with some kind of foam to take the knocks from anchors, etc,
91485

This next picture is of the Western Red Cedar (WRC) braces installed along the cabin front. Lots of different angles on these cuts but I finally found a use for my sliding compound cut mitre saw. After cutting and fitting the posts, I glued them in with cabosil-thickened epoxy. Then I glassed them in with two layers of 450 DB glass, which when forming a "U" channel over the brace becomes incredibly stiff.
91486
The last thing I wanted to do before glassing down the gunnels was to cut the fuel filler and vent holes and make the hose and electrical connections to the fuel tanks, before closing up the cabinets which provide access to the tanks. (I will always have access via inspection cutouts or ports to these areas, but it's much easier to do the initial installation with lots of elbow room. Here's a couple pics of the port and stb connections. The port side tank goes straight up to the gunnel without much curving. The stb side hoses do have to make some tight bends and although I rounded off all the sharp edges, I also put these inside protective hoses to counter future chafe problems. I plan to double clamp the fuel supply hose today. I also had to make the fuel sender electrical connections and I'd like to note what great service I got from Superior Terminals (Peterbo) in getting me down a complete connector kit (customised to my electrics plan) on a day's notice.
9149091489
Well, I can't procrastinate any longer. It's 10:30 and I'm off to the shed.

Chimo

20-04-2013, 11:36 AM

Steve

Great work as usual.

Where do the anchor wells / lockers drain to?

Cheers
Chimo

stevemid

20-04-2013, 05:25 PM

Chimo, Cormorant noticed that as well. The drains in the wet wells aren't installed yet. I bought some of these plastic snap together ones from Bias but they have "rot starts here" written all over them. Once I get the roof on I'll be putting wheels under the stands supporting the boat. This will allow me to push the boat away from the back wall and will then have have room glass proper wet well drains in the motor wells.

As far as the lockers go, the only drains I have planned are from the gutters around the hatches in the cockpit floor. These will drain into the tunnel. I did not put bungs in the bottom of the sponsons and I'm not planning to put in bilge pumps as there are six sealed bulkheads in each sponson.

Just the roof to go to have a complete shell!
Steve

stevemid

08-05-2013, 07:37 AM

Hot Knife
I've always wanted one of these hot knives for cutting rope and more importantly sunbrella fabric. But I've found the $300 for an Engel a bit exy. Found this one at rope galore for only $100. with free shipping. That put it in my reach.

A job for every tool and a tool for every job.
Steve
92266

Smithy

08-05-2013, 09:49 AM

For flotation your other options are pool noodles, plastic milk bottles and a boat I just looked at, boogie boards.

Sent from my V96A using Tapatalk HD

stevemid

08-05-2013, 04:39 PM

For flotation your other options are pool noodles, plastic milk bottles and a boat I just looked at, boogie boards.

Sent from my V96A using Tapatalk HD

Boogie boards! Plenty of those around on clean up days. Yep, 'm definitely going to used something solid, like the noodles or the styro peanuts. The boogie board could be cut up to fit quite well. But I'm leaning to the styro packing peanuts in a mesh bag. My floatation chambers at the front of each sponson are really odd shaped plus I have to glass the underside of the deck through the 6" access ports in these chambers. I'm planning to put the mesh bag in first, and then blow the peanuts in with a reversed shop vacuum. (I can easily suck them out the same way.) When the bag comes out I've got the last of the little buggers AND no problem fitting/filling up the space with them.
Steve

Smithy

08-05-2013, 07:11 PM

Scott Thorington's Freedom from Terrigal was what I was looking at and somehow Scotty had obtained a heap of boogie boards from a factory down in that Newcastle-Gosford sort of area.

stevemid

11-05-2013, 03:49 PM

The cabin/cockpit roof is the last piece to go on to complete the shell. The roof extends about a foot forward of the front windows, covers the cabin and extends over 75% of the cockpit. The roof itself is big: over 2 metres wide and 3.5 metres long. It has a 40mm "doubler" all the way round and is curved to follow the curve in the aft cabin bulkhead.
92335
The roof (and all parts) are already "pre-assembled" by virtue of the pre-routing and the panel joining schedule. I started building the roof by transfering the curve from the aft bulkhead to 4 pieces of MDF. After cutting these out, I had 4 male and 4 female support brackets which would allow me to lay down the roof either right side up or upside down on the floor. Two of the support brackets are on the floor in the next picture, the other two are sitting on the trestles.
92336
I then cut the kerfs. Before I filled in the kerfs with bog and glassed over the entire underside of the roof, I laid in wire to the locations for cabin/cockpit lights, anchor light and solar panels. You can see one of the grooves for the wire to the "F" location in the next picture. Then I filled in the kerfs with bog and glassed over everything with 450gm/sq metre double bias fibreglass. Once this had gone off the roof would be restored to its original stiffness and would pretty much hold its new, curved shape. By the way, the wires exiting the conduit to the outside will actually exit to the inside of the doubler and meet up with a conduit which will be glassed into the join between the aft bulkhead and the roof
92339
As mentioned the plans called for a 40mm doubler around the entire edge of the roof to give the edge a thicker look. Of course the outside edge of this would need to be rounded off. This would require a lot of bog and labour so I decided to route out the edge and glue in 16mm electrical conduit to facillitate wiring and to give a consistent radius around the entire edge of the roof. The next picture shows a sample of that. There was still a lot of work routing, glueing in the conduit and fairing the lot.
92337
On Frank's boat, the Spirited 230 built prior to mine, a boltrope had been installed to the underside of the roof to take the canvas which encloses the cockpit. As the canvas shrinks, pressure is put on the screws attaching the boltrope to the roof. The normal way to deal with this in balsa core is to drill the hole oversize, fill it with bog and screw into the bog. I decided to give myself some extra meat to sink the screws in to. So on the aft half of the roof, under the doubler, I glued in a 20mm wide piece of 3mm aluminium. I then glassed the doubler, the aluminium and the conduit as a unit, on to the roof structure.
92338
The last thing that needs doing is to fair the roof. I am going to finish paint the top of the roof before installing it. I also ordered the solar panels and will install those after painting and before lifting the roof into place.

Steve