Another embarresing incident at Mooloolaba

[randell]

Saw this in the Sunshine Coast daily today.
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2012/02/06/coastguard-botched-my-rescue-fisherman/

randell

[wirlybird]

Oh Randall they don’t call them dads army for nothing. only joking :) These guys wouldn’t intentionally do that their volunteers for Christ sake. I think the skipper of the vessel has a bit of egg on face and is lashing out.

[TheRealAndy]

Soon the Coastguard and VMR will only do rescues of people due to the threat of lawsuits.

[SunnyCoastMark]

There was a lot of swell over the weekend. We were eating in Mooloolaba Sat Evening - looking at the surf and there would have been big waves breaking across the mouth on that sandbank.

Sets seemed to be coming through about every 5 mins or so - meaning there should have been ample time between the sets to pick your "crossing".

Understand it was night time, however there was an almost full moon - so should have been easy enough to pick out the waves.

I guess we will have to wait and see how this pans out. - Hope it works out OK for all concerned.

[propdinger]

they should sue him for not having a sea worthy boat and having to rescue him. he was unisured broken down and yet his blaming the people that risk there lives and give up there time to help people. IMO its a shit thing to happen i would not have been happy but to talk about sueing someone what happens if they have to close down then who will help him next time ??

[hakuna]

So why did he not have a life jacket on crossing the bar??, Does that not mean he will be charged for not wearing one, now he has admitted it?

[Mister]

Legally he was not required to wear a life jacket as the boat is not an open vessel less than 4.8 metres.

However under the circumstances and being a "former commercial fisherman" then he should have been a lot smarter (instead of a SA) and known that things could go pear shape under the circumstances.

But yes volunteer organisations (and any volunteer for that matter) do need to review where volunteering is going and what's worse saving governments millions in the process. Governments are abusing the system badly.

[Smithy]

Have you all heard the disclaimer they read out on the radio from their insurers before commencing a rescue these days? Don't think he will have a leg to stand on. Saturday arvo she was cracking on the high tide. Hate to think what it was like on a run-out tide that night. I had a dream run going way into the bay near the shark nets and taking them bow-on with the west rock wall 20m off my starboard side but I have seen plenty of boats going in over the top of the sand bank. You still have to watching going into the bay some days as it will nearly break all the way into the Mooloolaba surf beach from the east wall. Watched a yacht bounce across about a week ago one arvo. It is worth taking the dog for a walk down there in the arvos to see what is going on.

[pipifin]

What a tool.

[hooknpull]

Soon enough there will be no volunteers and they will charge the persons being rescued to prevent things like this...

[midcoast learner]

Regardless whether its the law or not , isn't it just commonsense to wear a lifejacket while under tow crossing a bar at night.

[spelchek]

Regardless whether its the law or not , isn't it just commonsense to wear a lifejacket while under tow crossing a bar at night.



I'd go as far as saying it be common sense to have PFD on when in a boat alone offshore - no matter what the circumstances.

[fishfeeder]

This might sounds crazy but why was he still in his boat while it was being towed ???
I would have thought it safer to be on the Coastguard boat then in a boat being towed through a bar !!

Not wearing a life jacket that's just crazy in the situation that was being described.
As for suing Coastguard what a knob jockey...

[SunnyCoastMark]

This might sounds crazy but why was he still in his boat while it was being towed ???
I would have thought it safer to be on the Coastguard boat then in a boat being towed through a bar !!

Not wearing a life jacket that's just crazy in the situation that was being described.
As for suing Coastguard what a knob jockey...

The chap in question has written a response to some of the blogs on the Sunshine Coast Dailys web news site.

Apparently he was wearing a life jacket and his boat was insured. There was 6 people on the Coast guard boat and allegedly no -one was "spotting"

More to come with this story I think.

[fishfeeder]

SunnyCoastMark, Thanks for your reply, The Sunshine Coast daily could have atleast got the story straight....
But maybe facts don't read as good as BS.....
NO wonder I don't read any news paper or watch the news anymore.....

Cheers

[johncar]

Yeah I certainly agree that Coast Guard and VMR are gold and should be supported by all rec boaties. I know that they are held in distain by some of the pro's out there but not sure why, I have just heard them 1st hand bad mouthing the organisations, so may be a bit of that in there.
They are volunteers and having been a VMR Skipper years ago, I and my crew have dragged countless vessels and their occupants out of trouble with no incident in really crappy conditions at times and you just have to wonder what the hell they are doing out there. I have not wanted to be there at times I can tell you I have been really annoyed about having to put ourselves at risk, and not even a "thanks" from some.

In this case it is just very hard for me to imagine that they were not doing their best and yes they may have made some errors of judgement. At the end of the day they should not put someones life in danger either so by the sounds of it an investigation definitely needs to happen and review of their procedures, but I hope that sanity will prevail and no suing take place.

[Stuart]

The guy is a ###### wether his boat was insured or not or wether he was wearing a life jacket or not. The coast guard do this on there own backs with bugger all asistance from the useless government. I have been stuck out to see some 41 miles and at 3am the coast guard arived, thank god I say. If this tool and thats being very nice wants to sue them for putting there necks on the line then he may find himself in a boat load of trouble from locals. If the coast guard wasnt there to help then I wonder if this tool would paddle back in through the bar on his own steam?

[chris69]

After reading the replys on the sunshine coast web site and some reports were first hand the paper has report crap,and the skipper of the coast guard boat has in my opinion has failed in his duty of care to operate the rescue vessel in a professional manner and the crew of the rescue boat were just there for a joy ride as i see it and are in the same boat... failed...., the guy rescued could have fallen over board not long after they picked up the boat and they would not have known.

But on the other side i do no that not all the rescue skippers should be put in this basket most do a good job with there sea time they have and not every rescue is the same and have some sea sence about them and some lateral thinking and can take charge of the situation,but not this one he might not be on roster for awhile or the crew.

[3rd degree]

If he is insured, lodge a claim and move on... don't sue the people who rescue you!

Sounds like the bar needs dredging?

Cheers

Jim

[ozscott]

If he Puts a claim in he might like to move on but IF there was an action available against marine rescue and if viable an insurer can sue in the name of its insured.

I'm not commenting on whether an action is available or not just about the doctrine of subrogation that people might not be aware applies with this type of insurance. Cheers

[Marlin_Mike]

If he Puts a claim in he might like to move on but IF there was an action available against marine rescue and if viable an insurer can sue in the name of its insured.

I'm not commenting on whether an action is available or not just about the doctrine of subrogation that people might not be aware applies with this type of insurance. Cheers


Hmmmmm ozscott, heap big phrase........................ for us numbnuts, here is what that phrase actually means..................:):):)::):-?

Subrogation is the term used to refer to the situation where an insurer, who has extended indemnity to an insured under a policy of insurance, becomes entitled to exercise the rights that the insured has against a third party who caused or contributed to the loss sustained by the insured.
In the insurance context, the doctrine of subrogation is associated with two discreet aspects of the relationship between an insurer and an insured:


the doctrine allows the insurer to exercise, in the insured's name, rights that the insured may have against third parties; and
the doctrine is associated with the principle that an insurer can claim from an insured any double recovery made by that insured.

[pipifin]

SunnyCoastMark, Thanks for your reply, The Sunshine Coast daily could have atleast got the story straight....
But maybe facts don't read as good as BS.....
NO wonder I don't read any news paper or watch the news anymore.....

Cheers

LOL @ Sunshine Coast Daily ever getting things straight.

[Stuart]

The Sunshine Daily reported on me and my mates baot years ago when the inside the tunnel on a cat splitt open the full lenght. The coast gaurd arrived around 14 miles out as we where limping home on one engine...lucky. The coast guard did circle us several times and with there wake almost sank us, they got the message qwuick smart to stop. The daily awaiting us at the boat ramp got a well.. threatning reply when my mate a rebals member told him not to snap any pics. He took off but did take some pics out his car window. The very next day the daily banged on about all sorts of crap considering none of us gave them any information as to what happened. The coast guard did the interveiw and heaped the blame on us for some how causing the hull to split down both sides. Well we payed them a visit the next day and we spoke to the coast guard guy that did the interveiw. Why did you paint us as complete dickheads and that we some how caused this to our own boat 20 miles out? He denied anything and everything, told him what we thought of him and moved on. While the coast guard are great the guys at times running the show leave a lot to be desired and that goes for the daily as well. Never let a good story get in the way of the facts and the coast guard are at times no better.

Stu

[SunnyCoastMark]

The Sunshine Daily reported on me and my mates baot years ago when the inside the tunnel on a cat splitt open the full lenght. The coast gaurd arrived around 14 miles out as we where limping home on one engine...lucky. The coast guard did circle us several times and with there wake almost sank us, they got the message qwuick smart to stop. The daily awaiting us at the boat ramp got a well.. threatning reply when my mate a rebals member told him not to snap any pics. He took off but did take some pics out his car window. The very next day the daily banged on about all sorts of crap considering none of us gave them any information as to what happened. The coast guard did the interveiw and heaped the blame on us for some how causing the hull to split down both sides. Well we payed them a visit the next day and we spoke to the coast guard guy that did the interveiw. Why did you paint us as complete dickheads and that we some how caused this to our own boat 20 miles out? He denied anything and everything, told him what we thought of him and moved on. While the coast guard are great the guys at times running the show leave a lot to be desired and that goes for the daily as well. Never let a good story get in the way of the facts and the coast guard are at times no better.

Stu

Stu,
You are a bit of a story all on your own. - The daily doesn't need to embelish anything if they write about you.;D:P
Mark

[TREVELLY]

All too often the truth is better than fiction too - thanks Stu.

I was offshore Saturday and came in through the bar near low tide about 1pm.

From what I saw and went through with the waves breaking mid-way across the river mouth and pushing heavy foam across to the rocks on the other side in sets of more than 7 waves at a time with the bigger swells over 2m and the smaller swells between the sets at 1m. I do not reckon you could have successfully towed a boat through that entrance.

All slower boats copped a 1m breaking swell guaranteed either about to break or as surging foam - it doesn't take much to flip a small boat.

With the audience waiting on both rocky outcrops at the river mouth they were all expectantly awaiting something - it just looked like it would happen.

I went home wondering if a report would have come from that day - here's my answer.

Wished I had a camera to capture the police 60 foot unpainted aluminium cat being smacked in the side by a smaller breaking 1m swell - never seen a big boat rock so fast after the clang it made hitting the side - bet the guys way up on the deck in the cabin got thrown about - made my buddy say "oh shit!" when he saw it and the only other time he swore that day was when he put a big gash in his hand with the gaff.

Incidentally I sat there for a little while watching a set of 2m plus waves breaking across the river entrance then at 60kph entered the river through the foam - yes the foam was right across the river mouth - hugging the rocks on the beach side did not look a safe option to me.

The slower 9m boat behind me and in front of the police boat did enter the river mouth closer to the beach wall so he could be 45 degrees into the swells and ride over one 1m breaking wave - bit of a flop and spray.

The police cat had no holeshot and no ability to miss a 1m swell and copped it - unavoidable.

As mentioned earlier - any of those regular 1m breaking waves would have flipped a smaller boat easily.

So as I said - I don't reckon you could have safely towed a boat into the river from what I saw near low tide during daylight - and at night - "snow flakes chance in hell" if similar conditions.

Suppose the safest option would have been to anchor up the little boat in quiet water and take the fisherman in and he gets his boat when it is safe to do so - all easier to assess in hindsight.

Hope it doesn't mean in future they won't tow us through the bar - period regardless of the conditions to satisfy some insurance policy.

Only hope this incident doesn't jeopardise the Coast Guards presence - there is no doubt they save people.

[SunnyCoastMark]

All too often the truth is better than fiction too - thanks Stu.

I was offshore Saturday and came in through the bar near low tide about 1pm.

From what I saw and went through with the waves breaking mid-way across the river mouth and pushing heavy foam across to the rocks on the other side in sets of more than 7 waves at a time with the bigger swells over 2m and the smaller swells between the sets at 1m. I do not reckon you could have successfully towed a boat through that entrance.

All slower boats copped a 1m breaking swell guaranteed either about to break or as surging foam - it doesn't take much to flip a small boat.

With the audience waiting on both rocky outcrops at the river mouth they were all expectantly awaiting something - it just looked like it would happen.

I went home wondering if a report would have come from that day - here's my answer.

Wished I had a camera to capture the police 60 foot unpainted aluminium cat being smacked in the side by a smaller breaking 1m swell - never seen a big boat rock so fast after the clang it made hitting the side - bet the guys way up on the deck in the cabin got thrown about - made my buddy say "oh shit!" when he saw it and the only other time he swore that day was when he put a big gash in his hand with the gaff.

Incidentally I sat there for a little while watching a set of 2m plus waves breaking across the river entrance then at 60kph entered the river through the foam - yes the foam was right across the river mouth - hugging the rocks on the beach side did not look a safe option to me.

The slower 9m boat behind me and in front of the police boat did enter the river mouth closer to the beach wall so he could be 45 degrees into the swells and ride over one 1m breaking wave - bit of a flop and spray.

The police cat had no holeshot and no ability to miss a 1m swell and copped it - unavoidable.

As mentioned earlier - any of those regular 1m breaking waves would have flipped a smaller boat easily.

So as I said - I don't reckon you could have safely towed a boat into the river from what I saw near low tide during daylight - and at night - "snow flakes chance in hell" if similar conditions.

Suppose the safest option would have been to anchor up the little boat in quiet water and take the fisherman in and he gets his boat when it is safe to do so - all easier to assess in hindsight.

Hope it doesn't mean in future they won't tow us through the bar - period regardless of the conditions to satisfy some insurance policy.

Only hope this incident doesn't jeopardise the Coast Guards presence - there is no doubt they save people.



No real easy answer here - anchoring the little boat up in a quiet spot may have been a navigation hazard at night and with the amount of swell - you couldn't be confident that the anchor wouldn't drag in the sand.

Regardless of what people are saying about all the good work the Coast Guard do etc. etc. and in spite of the fact that they apparently issue a verbal disclaimer before a rescue - the fact is - they have a duty of care.

These guys are supposed to be the experts and no doubt they are audited regularly by MSQ to ensure that everyones tickets, training etc are up to spec.

The viewpoints regarding the pro's and con's of the chap being rescued as well as those demanding his head on a platter for daring to suggest the Coastguard be held accountable are both emotive and unrealistic.

Imagine if it was your boat - your pride and joy that was being towed in (circumstances notwithstanding) and you had trusted the coastguard with your safety not to mention the safe recovery of your boat. - Would you be angry if they went in through a dangerous bar entrance at night - in a big swell - without considering the dangers - resulting in the boat tipping/ flipping (whatever it did) tossing you into the water, wrecking your boat and then leaving you to fend for yourself.

Of course you would. (be angry) Lucky he was the only one in the boat - imagine if kids had been involved.

Fact is - the boat tipped/flipped while being towed by the Coastguard boat in very dangerous circumstances. The skipper of the Coastguard vessel was responsible for the safety of the chap and his boat.

On this occasion the Skipper seems to have failed in his responsibility.

Sounds like a big statement I know - but I think it is an inescapable conclusion.

I would be thinking that the poor skipper has replayed the events a hundred times and given a second chance would probably have done something differently.

I certainly do not subscribe to the coastguard being sued nor to any form of 'witchhunt"

I am sure there will be an inquiry to find out what went wrong and how to ensure it dosen't happen again. Procedures will be reviewed and changed.

I guess we can all probably learn something from this unfortunate event.

Mark

[SunnyCoastMark]

From an eyewitness blog on the SCD website :-


By Penny18 from Mooloolaba, a day ago Suggest removal (http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/comments/flag/259058/)

I happened to be a bystander saturday night and I feel the need to clear a few things up. The man on the boat being towed DID have a life jacket on when he was thrown from his boat. It was ripped off of him i assume with the force of the waves or being thrown over the motor and out the back of the boat. Not really his fault. He had been fishing in the daylight, only because of the motor trouble was he out in the ocean at night time. Not really his fault. There was noone on the rescue boat looking back at his boat to make sure he was safe. And furthermore they didn't even notice he had been thrown out of the boat until people on shore finally yelled out to them to let them know. Then no flotation device was offered to him. Hardly fair when he is swimming unaided in the rough ocean, clearly in pain.
As for his boat I saw it saturday night and it did have considerable damage. Front window ripped of, side window pushed in, bars bent, fish finder ripped off the bottom of the boat. I think Daniels only fault in this was that his motor on the boat was not working properly.
After all it was the coast guard that stopped the boat in a dangerous area without any regard for his safety..
I wonder if people would feel differently if he had been killed by the coast guards negligence??????? Then would they have to take some of the responsibility???
Just think how you would feel if it was a loved one of yours that this happened to.


I guess as with all "eyewitness views" - you can get 10 different stories fom 5 people watching the same thing - so don't know how credible Penny18 is, but there are a couple of other accounts that have the same viewpoint. There is also another report that contradicts the above - but does not state if he was there or not.

I doubt if we will ever know the real story here. I agree with the sentiment that it is time for the government to step in and offer something more than only a volunteer service.

[Stuart]

Well there you go I stand corrected, the coast guard are in all sorts of poo.

[spelchek]

After all it was the coast guard that stopped the boat in a dangerous area without any regard for his safety..

Sorry if I've missed something - but they stopped? I assume thy mean stopped in the bar? Combine that with no-one watching the boat being towed (with an occupant in it no-less) and the story just gets more damning every time I refresh this thread.

I too would hate to see the Coast Guard suffer thru litigation - but put yourself in ln old matey's shoes. Its sounding more and more like they (CG) failed miserably to observe even basic safety principles (as basic as watching the boat they were towing - first principle stuff) and that maybe there is a need to shake things up a bit.

[Stuart]

Stu,
You are a bit of a story all on your own. - The daily doesn't need to embelish anything if they write about you.;D:P
Mark

Never a dull moment with me mate. Next time we catch up i will tell you about the time I almost died out at see, got blown up, speared in the guts by a billfish, outboard flew off the back of my mates boat while going flat out and many many more stories.

[Homer_Jay]

I wouldnt hold too much weight to what "penny18" was saying about the CG "stopped" in a dangerous situation, this makes no sense. Apparently they held station with the bow into the sea as they got hit by a set, rather than turning beam to for the entry. Makes perfect sense to me! Perhaps Penny 18 doesnt know much about boats??

I have to ask, why did his lifejacket come off so easily? I would have to say (IMHO) he didnt have it on correctly. A good lifejacket fitted properly shouldnt just wash off in the waves.


I know that a lot of the CG "crew" are retired blokes who just like to play boats (they come and go) but in my experience most of the skippers know what they are doing and have done a lot of training and sea hours to get there. Yes, things go wrong sometimes, but there is no use in string up some blokes who are out there saving this guys ass when they could have been home in their nice warm home.

The requirement for CG is to preserve life NOT property. They are quite within their right to "offer" to take you to safety and leave your boat anchored for you to worry about yourself at a later date.
With too many incidents like this, eventually thats what it may come to.

Yes, they may not be the most competant/experienced/whatever you want to say. BUT it is not a fulltime job and they do not get paid. What is the option? nothing?

I believe they state governemnt need to fund a professional service, but there is too much reliance on volunteers in this country, saves the gov a fortune, that they can pi$$ away on rubbish.

[TREVELLY]

I would not be at all surprised if sometime in the future where return involves a bar crossing they put in place a mooring buoy at sea outside the bar away from traffic to secure the towed boat and fix a flashing light to the top and retrieve the boat later when it is safe to do so.

Preferable option for me rather than having the boat towed through a bar at night (or daytime at low tide for that matter) with frequent waves breaking across it.

Makes sense to me.

Takes away a lot of risk to the coast guard boat too going through the bar when it is risky.

[Stuart]

The other issue here is the bar. I have been fishing out of this port for 25 years and up untill several years ago the bar never once silted up. Only after the new canal estates have gone in that it begun to silt over and at times breaks. Some will say that the sand bar has nothing to do with the new canal estates then why did it happened after all the new canal estates went in?

[chris69]

Ill tell you why stuart its all the runoff from the roads and houses top dressing from the grass dirt from the roads all the open ungrassed areas before the development wind blows the sand around and it ends up in the water gets washed down to the bar entrance were the ocean swells slows the water flow and settles there,were there was once bush and wetland grasses there roofs and roads and drainage into the rivers and creeks as it flood it all moves.

[SunnyCoastMark]

Runoff from developments is a factor of course. however keep in mind we have just come through what? 10 years of below average rainfall - so I guess we have all become used to the bar entrance being a nice deep channel. With the floods of last year + the rains this year - I guess we have to expect this silting etc.

I bet if you went back through records for the past 50 years or so - you would find a correlation between High rainfall years and the bar as it is now.

Still doesn't excuse those who use it every day from being careless.

[wiz]

If you are not going to be grateful when someone goes out of their way to save you ( no matter how it is done) then be responsible for yourself and get yourself out of the shit that you put youself in. He winges about going for a swim, I bet it would have been a longer distance to swim from where he broke down. The problem with our society is we have all become victims and want some one else to be responsible for us, you put yourself where you are, own it.

[Marlin_Mike]

Ill tell you why stuart its all the runoff from the roads and houses top dressing from the grass dirt from the roads all the open ungrassed areas before the development wind blows the sand around and it ends up in the water gets washed down to the bar entrance were the ocean swells slows the water flow and settles there,were there was once bush and wetland grasses there roofs and roads and drainage into the rivers and creeks as it flood it all moves.

That has to be the biggest crock of $hyte I have heard. Runoff??????????????????????

It has to be the huge rainfalls. Like someone else said, look up history and you will likely find a correlation between big rains and silted bars in past years.

[Stuart]

There maybe a correlation between rains and silting but I have never seen it happen at this mouth in question. As I said I have fished from this port for 25 years and I have never seen this sand bar form once until recently, ie last several years. You can’t tell me the canal development is only a small factor; I would put it down as a major factor. The hydrologist I spoke with said if they put one more man made canal in, the mouth will have to be doubled in width to cope with the increase in "flow in" and "flow out". He said it’s teetering on the edge as it is in terms of width and he isn’t surprised the bar is silting. The council member for Kawana at the time Andrew Champion absolute ###### decided to fill the groin just inside the river mouth in with sand to make a huge beach. Several issues here were that most people with small kids used it because there was no run and it was shallow. Now its deep and the run is dangerous. You certainly can’t leave your kids to splash around or they will get swept away with the run. I noticed that the silting also became more frequent after this change, wether it’s a direct result of this decision to pump thousands of cubic meters of sand into the groin I don’t know. Even more annoying about this ridicules decision to fill it in with sand is they destroyed my much loved garfish area of almost the same amount of years. The council won’t let you cut a tree down with out 1000 letters and approvals but they can fill in part of a river for public use, wtf. The Sunshine Coast Council is run by green Nazis and industry haters. Anyway we are digressing from the main point.

[nigelr]

Down here the big rain events clear the bar.
Transport the sand 200+ mts offshore and cut a nice channel to boot.
Dry weather brings it all back in and up the river again.
Every time without fail.

[Stuart]

Down here the big rain events clear the bar.
Transport the sand 200+ mts offshore and cut a nice channel to boot.
Dry weather brings it all back in and up the river again.
Every time without fail.

Nothing against you nigelr but Im sick of that term rain event, flood event, this event that event everywhere an event event, old macdonald had a farm. What heppened to the term its raining heavy , the rains are here marg, its pi55ing down mate, raining cats and dogs, its going to flood if this rain keeps up, raining very heavy, a light drizzle, its spitting. But no every thing is an event or the other term they love to use which is Catastrophic. IWe live out in the sticks and the fire threat level board on the side of the road use to say extreme but now thats replaced with the word Catastrophic, give me a friggen break event or I may become catastrophic.

Stu