4mm Plate Hull for Barra - Your thoughts on this boat??

[Splash]

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=343368561

Your thoughts on this boat for fishing barra in the NT river system?

It has 4mm plate all around.

I would ditch the existing donk and replace with brand new Honda 4T.

Splash

[STUIE63]

it looks like a great boat for the long rivers up there . just don't underpower it

[Splash]

Thanks Stuie.

THis boat is a custom make, and I am told by the seller that it does not have any Max HP rating stamped.

So, given that this is a 5m long 4mm plate hull - what size outboard would be ideal?

Splash

[ejackulate]

Gday Splash,
Yeah she would be fine up here mate but as Stuie said dont skimp on the ponies.Bloody long runs to most of the good fishin in the run off especially so ya wanna be scooting.Nice fishing platforms for casting

Cheers Rob

[STUIE63]

without knowing how wide it is . I would guess a 90 would be the minimum and a 115 would go real good if the hull is wide enough to handle the weight

[Splash]

Thanks guys.

How could I tell if the hull is wide enough to handle the extra weight of the 115?

Splash

[STUIE63]

Splash find out what the weights of the two motors are and put that extra weight on the transom and see how it sits in the water would be the easiest way .there is a formula for working out maximum hp on a boat I have copied and pasted from one of Moonlighters posts

The Australian Standard AS1977 specifies the formula that manufacturers (and presumably anyone qualified to certify boats) have to use to determine the max hp for their hulls. It says this:

Length of boat X waterline beam width at transom X 16 less 67 then X 1.34 =
absolute max hp you can use on your boat.

Then that result has to be verified as safe by doing a serious practical on water slalom test, at full throttle, through an on water course specified in the standard, including performing a 90 degree right angle turn at full speed also, within a prescribed distance, safely and without shipping any water.

If it cant do that, then the max hp has to be lowered and a new test done.

An example of how the formula works for a mythical 14 ft (4.26m) boat with a 1.8m beam at the stern (waterline level) is as follows:

4.26m boat X 1.8m beam at waterline at the stern =7.668 X 16 =122.688 less 67= 55.68 X 1.34 = 74.62 hp.

Maybe do some measuring of your hull and run the above formula on the actual measurements on your boat yourself before you get too far down the track.

[Dan5]

It would be ok Splash but looks a little wet for crossing some of the open bays etc......it does look like a good river boat though......The suzi90hp with lean burn would be a good match for it...............Don't want to see you go to fast up here with all the rockbars around!

Dan

[Jarrah Jack]

As the others said, she looks a 90hp to me. A bit narrow compared to the 115 boats so she should be lighter so shouldn't make that much difference to performance. Low sides too and not much gunnel. Perhaps a rail all round might give you more distance from the nasties.

[Splash]

Thanks guys.

I will not be venturing out into the open bays.

I like the idea of an all-roudn rail on the gunnel.

I will be inspecting the boat tonight (6pm WA time).

ANy tips on what to look out for?

Should I keep the existing donk for a while?

Splash

[Squidlet]

Does it come with rain coats? and a good chiropractor?
Cheers Chris.

[Si]

Thanks guys.

I will not be venturing out into the open bays.

I like the idea of an all-roudn rail on the gunnel.

I will be inspecting the boat tonight (6pm WA time).

ANy tips on what to look out for?

Should I keep the existing donk for a while?

Splash

i would unless your flush with cash. give it a run, get your moneys worth. 2 stroke 70 i think isnt it.

[Splash]

Si - that's what the add says - I will confirm it tonight.

I am guessing the 2 st 70HP drinks fuel pretty thirstly....??

Squidlet - I'll ask for the raincoats and the chiropractor needs to be swedish, female and well hung :-)

I guess - the $64k questions now needs to be asked - would this boat be better for me that the 4.1m polycraft for river applications?

Splash

[krazyfisher]

I have a 75hp 2s and I get between 2-3 km per lt depending on revs

I would go the poly its new and should give years of problem free boating

[spelchek]

Nice boat - but 4mm plate for a river boat does sound kind of over-the-top to me. Pressed ally would be just as good, cheaper and lighter (less hp to push ) than a platey. Just my opinion.

[myusernam]

if you get the boat from the NT it will be better suited. that thing would suck in the coastal spots - why limit yourself to a pure river boat when you can have a good river boat and a reasonable offshore boat. (it's pretty calm up there and the offshore spots can be close to the coast)

even as a riverboat it's pretty low sided. You can pick up a good second hand topender 460 with 60hp yammie for just over 20k...

[Splash]

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet-Skis-boats-jet-skis-other-QUINTREX-DORY-WIDEBODY-DINGHY-5-2M-W0QQAdIdZ345612790

How about this one?

Splash

[Si]

if you get the boat from the NT it will be better suited. that thing would suck in the coastal spots - why limit yourself to a pure river boat when you can have a good river boat and a reasonable offshore boat. (it's pretty calm up there and the offshore spots can be close to the coast)

even as a riverboat it's pretty low sided. You can pick up a good second hand topender 460 with 60hp yammie for just over 20k...

agree, it is quite low sided.

[johncar]

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet-Skis-boats-jet-skis-other-QUINTREX-DORY-WIDEBODY-DINGHY-5-2M-W0QQAdIdZ345612790

How about this one?

Splash

Well that would be more my choice, The other looks like it wouldn't take a lot more weight on the bum than the current motor and whatever else is down there. Could be a good solid boat though and worth checking out depending on price and condition and definitely water test..

[Jarrah Jack]

I'm not real keen on tiller steer boats for the long river runs. Its not easy holding the tiller for that long. Also it can get hairy when you first take off and you can't see anything til the boat gets on the plane. Some or the big rivers can get crowded.

[lucee81]

i would not look at buying a boat in the nt this being for the exceptional prices they ask up there. second i would look at a cc or sc the reason being for forward sight if you do not know the waterways up there and even if you do there are a lot of protruding rocks in the river systems and they are tidal with 5mt+ movements, fast moving tides coupled with a lack of knowledge and poor sight (due to tiller steer) will see you stuck until the tide comes in or worse a hole in the hull. not to put you off and not knowing what river systems you are looking at fishing but get on google earth and have a look at the sheer size of these rivers...
i fished meckits creek for about 12 years and went up there after being in brisbane for 3 years a quick lapse in thought saw me stuck on a sand bar for 4 hours, middle of the day, middle of a croc infested creek with no shade, fun times. oh yeah, whatever boat you look at i would be looking at some kind of shade it gets real hot up there...


lucas

[Splash]

Great input fellas! Really very much appreciated! I will have more serious thought tonight...

And, yes the prices for boats in NT are wicked!

Just returned from the inspection of that 5m low sided boat...

I was keen and now I am not. I sat in the drivers seat and my whole torso was exposed with no gunell side wall.

I know I can get him down in price but still would not feel safe due to croc stuff..

Oh well - I tried....

Back to the search and the polycraft is back in vogue... :-)

The tiller steer sentiment is certainly falling in this thread - interesting comments...


Splash

[STUIE63]

Splash that boat is 5m and the poly is 4.1m I think that is a lot of the reason behind the tiller thing . I know I would only have a tiller in any boat under 4.4m

[Splash]

http://darwin.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet-Skis-boats-jet-skis-other-4-55-AllyCraft-Side-Console-W0QQAdIdZ349422017

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=11892598

http://perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet-Skis-boats-jet-skis-other-Searider-4-7-Plate-Ali-W0QQAdIdZ332275661


How about these ones??

Splash

[Splash]

...thoughts on above?

Splash

[lucee81]

The ally craft on boat point looks pretty good except the short shaft, if you do a search on nt news there is stories of crocs taking the outboards of the back of boats etc.
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2011/04/26/227691_ntnews.html
try looking for something with high sides and dont let stories like this worry you otherwise you will never go out but steer clear of bass boats in my opinion.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/13/3009848.htm?site=darwin

These articles may give you some insight in my thoughts on bass boats.
For all the info everyone can give you, it really is your decision on what you are happy with and what makes you feel safe as you have stated you will be alone most of the time.

Lucas

[Splash]

Many thanks Lucee81.

Does the length of shaft actually make a difference to crocs taking outboards??

i guess the sides on the 4.1m polycraft is not high enough?

SPlash

[lucee81]

Not at all with the short shaft a cranky croc will attack anything... and in regard to the poly craft a lot of people up there have a poly so it should not be a drama for high sides. As i have said im not familiar with the poly's so i cant give accurate information.

lucas

[propdinger]

i would get the ally craft Tank will give best of both worlds newish 4 stroke centre console can fight a fish right around the boat light enough if you do get stuck on a sand bar to push off (quickly lol)

[Splash]

Thanks guys.

That allycraft on Boatpoint is sold - unfortuantely.

Your thougths on this Allycraft:

http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Boats/Power-Boats/AdNumber=TP004978935

THe motor can be replaced with a 60HP motor.. (max rating for this hull)..


Splash

[propdinger]

i persnally wouldnt buy a boat thinking i will trade the motor for a 4stroke in the near future makes the boat tooo exxy . that boats 13xxx the other was 14xxx a 4 strokes worth alot more than $1000 brand new. i would find one with a good 4 stroke and it will save you heaps unless the 2stroke BMT is at a good enough price to spend the extra $8,000 on

[Kev_McC]

Sorry, can't agree with some of the advice about tiller controlled boats. If you get a little boat, underpower it, and get the weight distribution wrong, then you could have problems with lack of vision. If you adequately power it, put the weight in sensible places, and have the ability to adjust engine trim then a tiller controlled boat behaves pretty much the same as a boat with forward controls. Except that the tiller steer is more manouvreable up smaller waterways, or for stunt trolling etc, and has more open deck space. You can do long runs with a tillered boat no problems, there's no weight on the tiller if the motor is properly trimmed, and it will ride at the same attitude as any other boat. I actually find it more comfortable because I can sit up straight without having to lean forward or have an arm in front of me. Each to their own though.

[Steve B]

Sorry, can't agree with some of the advice about tiller controlled boats. If you get a little boat, underpower it, and get the weight distribution wrong, then you could have problems with lack of vision. If you adequately power it, put the weight in sensible places, and have the ability to adjust engine trim then a tiller controlled boat behaves pretty much the same as a boat with forward controls. Except that the tiller steer is more manouvreable up smaller waterways, or for stunt trolling etc, and has more open deck space. You can do long runs with a tillered boat no problems, there's no weight on the tiller if the motor is properly trimmed, and it will ride at the same attitude as any other boat. I actually find it more comfortable because I can sit up straight without having to lean forward or have an arm in front of me. Each to their own though.


100% agree Kev,

Open boats with tillers are far more manouverable, if set up right vision is OK. For long runs though, the good old wheel is handy.....each to their own

I know everyone says "get a high sided boat"...but seriously, how high do you really need??? Can anyone tell me (with serious facts) the last time a croc swan dived into a boat to attack a human?? When I (and probably a lot here) first started doing territory trips many years ago., it was in 3.7 tinnies with 15hp or there abouts setups (freeboard = stuff all)....we all came home OK.....and still do to this day!!

If they want to jump in your boat they will...regardless of how high the sides are. Same as biting your prop. 15hp or 250hp...makes no difference.

[Splash]

Can anyone tell me (with serious facts) the last time a croc swan dived into a boat to attack a human?? ........... If they want to jump in your boat they will...regardless of how high the sides are. Same as biting your prop. 15hp or 250hp...makes no difference.


http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/201...91_ntnews.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...tm?site=darwin

Splash

[Chas & Clarry]

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/201...91_ntnews.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...tm?site=darwin

Splash

Links didn't work for me?????

[lucee81]

100% agree Kev,

Open boats with tillers are far more manouverable, if set up right vision is OK. For long runs though, the good old wheel is handy.....each to their own

I know everyone says "get a high sided boat"...but seriously, how high do you really need??? Can anyone tell me (with serious facts) the last time a croc swan dived into a boat to attack a human?? When I (and probably a lot here) first started doing territory trips many years ago., it was in 3.7 tinnies with 15hp or there abouts setups (freeboard = stuff all)....we all came home OK.....and still do to this day!!

If they want to jump in your boat they will...regardless of how high the sides are. Same as biting your prop. 15hp or 250hp...makes no difference.

just a query with this statement. When you started doing trips to the NT was it still legal to shoot crocs for your protection or was there still licenced people who could cull crocs because over the last decade the croc population has grew and also crocs are no longer scared of boats etc if you look back to the 80's and 90's a croc attack was just about unheard of, cant say the same today. back in the 90's i used to frequent a lot of river systems in the harbour etc in a 11 1/2 foot dinghy did not see to many crocs. i went back home before christmas and went crabbing in King creek and seen no less than 4 crocs before lunch. 20,30 years ago you would not have seen 1 croc that close to town. if they are that thick that close to town a bass boat is not something i would want to be frequenting the daly, adelaide or any other rivers in.
My statement of a high sided boat was in regards to the bass boat Spalsh was looking at.


Lucas

[Splash]

Links didn't work for me?????

http://tools.ntnews.com.au//search-results/index.php?search_string=crocodile&results_page_num=10&search_type=site_search&start_page=0&start_num=-10

4th item down on above link


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-04-27/fisherman-used-fingers-to-stab-attacking-crocs-eyes/2666882

5th item down (page 14) on above link


Splash

[GBC]

High side, low side, long shaft, short shaft.

Your perspective needs to change a little......

Forget the puk puks - if you were that worried you'd be buying a camel and not a boat. Like big sharks - if he wants you, theres 3/4 SFA you can do about it.
Treat them with respect, don't sit between the campfire and the water, don't do the same stupid thing three days running.

From a balance perspective, a high sided boat just gives him more leverage to flip the thing when he tries to board - you'd be better off with a catermaran if you were worried about that stuff.

When your first 5+ comes alongside for a squiz you'll think back to this thread and think "Oh".........:o


http://www.amazingaustralia.com.au/animals/crocodile_attacks.htm

Not too many fishos ^^^

[lucee81]

at no stage did i say i was worried i simply stated that i would not be buying a bass boat for river fishing in the territory. that being my opinion. Also the picture you posted is of a croc that has been tamed and fattened over the eyars for tourists.is this a good thing i think not as the crocs are no longer scared of boats and are now inqusitive.
Splash asked about the bass boat and i gave him my opinion, he also asked about poly boats in which i did not give my opinion as i dont know these boats. i do however know the river systems in the Territory and gave my opinion.
try looking for something with high sides and dont let stories like this worry you otherwise you will never go out but steer clear of bass boats in my opinion.
Just incase you missed it in post #26

[Steve B]

just a query with this statement. When you started doing trips to the NT was it still legal to shoot crocs for your protection or was there still licenced people who could cull crocs because over the last decade the croc population has grew and also crocs are no longer scared of boats etc if you look back to the 80's and 90's a croc attack was just about unheard of, cant say the same today. back in the 90's i used to frequent a lot of river systems in the harbour etc in a 11 1/2 foot dinghy did not see to many crocs. i went back home before christmas and went crabbing in King creek and seen no less than 4 crocs before lunch. 20,30 years ago you would not have seen 1 croc that close to town. if they are that thick that close to town a bass boat is not something i would want to be frequenting the daly, adelaide or any other rivers in.
My statement of a high sided boat was in regards to the bass boat Spalsh was looking at.


Lucas

Lucas,

Sorry mate, certainly wasn't aimed or trying to offend you. I was basically saying, once you have seen these crocs (as you have)..there is nothing stopping them attacking you regardless of what rig your in. I think the boat Splash was looking at originally seemed OK to me..but thats just me. I basically fished thru the 90's. there was no culling then, and some big huhas!! I can only imagine what would be there now. That was the East, South Alligator, Daly and Mary.

IMHO, Splash - 4 to 5m boat...you will be fine. More chance of getting eaten launching or retireving the thing. Fishing NT, is awesome and you just have to put the fear of gators into perspective....be careful, watchful and dont get in the water....I fell in once in South Alligator river. I reckon Ian Thorpe wouldn't have beaten me back into the boat LOL.

I dont agree with these jumping croc shows for the tourists...they ARE a danger to fisherman.

Cheers Steve

Splash, Had to laugh at the ABC article "his mate in the boat slept through the entire attack"...WHAT!! How could you sleep through that.:D:D I can only imagine the converation "so ahh, any bites while I was asleep mate??"..."na mate, only a 5 mtr croc jumped in our boat and tore my arm off...other than that, no fish";D;D

[lucee81]

Hi Steve

I was not offended just pointing out that over the years the culling of crocs has deminished and this is not necessarily a good thing. years ago my wifes faimly owned a station in the Territory they used to shoot crocs in the lagoon to protect the cattle these same crocs were from a large river system in the NT this was a form of protectionto the cattle and so forth, Keep in mind this happened at alot of the staions in NT, now this is no longer legal the croc population is out of control a simple search will show that crocs have been showing up in swimming pools peoples loung room etc
I am not trying to scare anyone from heading north because it is great place to visit and experience i was just trying to make Spalsh aware of the dangers that fishing in NT can be and in this day and age of seeing it first hand in Dec,Jan i was totaly amazed the difference and keep in mind i was also up there for a 4 day fishing adventure in 2010. Back in the 80's 90's the crocs were not in plagues like now, And probably less dangerous back then because of the culling and so forth that did go on, crocs were scared of people and generally left them alone.
Obviously things have changed. have a look at this
http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/breaking-news-national/no-croc-culling-in-nt-trophy-hunters-ok-20090415-a6ub.html

[Splash]

All good fellas.

The beauty of Forums such as these is that we can all voice our opinions in a very healthy environment. I luv it!

All good.

Steve - yeah amazing article... the sleeper must have had been sleeping off a humungous hangover!

Decided on the 4.1m SC poly...with the BF50.

Splash

[Steve B]

All good fellas.

The beauty of Forums such as these is that we can all voice our opinions in a very healthy environment. I luv it!

All good.

Steve - yeah amazing article... the sleeper must have had been sleeping off a humungous hangover!

Decided on the 4.1m SC poly...with the BF50.

Splash


That will be a perfect setup mate. been in a couple, and they are indestructable. Good luck with it. you will love it up there!. Make sure you beef up the trailer to suit the terrain and travel. Polly's are a pretty heavy boat also.

cheers mate
Steve

[Splash]

THansk Steve.

What trailer mods are recommended for beef up?

Splash

[GBC]

at no stage did i say i was worried i simply stated that i would not be buying a bass boat for river fishing in the territory. that being my opinion. Also the picture you posted is of a croc that has been tamed and fattened over the eyars for tourists.is this a good thing i think not as the crocs are no longer scared of boats and are now inqusitive.
Splash asked about the bass boat and i gave him my opinion, he also asked about poly boats in which i did not give my opinion as i dont know these boats. i do however know the river systems in the Territory and gave my opinion.
try looking for something with high sides and dont let stories like this worry you otherwise you will never go out but steer clear of bass boats in my opinion.
Just incase you missed it in post #26

I thought Splash was buying the boat?

Agreed, old 3 legged Brutus isn't too much of an issue, but I can show you his big brother at East Vernon if you like.....

Good choice on the Poly Splash - they taste like crap :)

[Kev_McC]

and just for kicks, a nice example of a tiller steered weapon, complete with 200hp verado:

http://www.rangerboats.com/models.cfm?gid=35&mid=6576#|floorplan

[Splash]

and just for kicks, a nice example of a tiller steered weapon, complete with 200hp verado:

http://www.rangerboats.com/models.cfm?gid=35&mid=6576#|floorplan


I want one .......... NOW!

Splash

[Squidlet]

Just buy a blooooooody boat would ya cam!!!!!!!!
Cheers Chris..

[Splash]

LOL.

DOne!

Order will be placed next week.......

Cam

[Si]

High side, low side, long shaft, short shaft.

Your perspective needs to change a little......

Forget the puk puks - if you were that worried you'd be buying a camel and not a boat. Like big sharks - if he wants you, theres 3/4 SFA you can do about it.
Treat them with respect, don't sit between the campfire and the water, don't do the same stupid thing three days running.

From a balance perspective, a high sided boat just gives him more leverage to flip the thing when he tries to board - you'd be better off with a catermaran if you were worried about that stuff.

When your first 5+ comes alongside for a squiz you'll think back to this thread and think "Oh".........:o


http://www.amazingaustralia.com.au/animals/crocodile_attacks.htm

Not too many fishos ^^^
some sad stories in that link. give me a high sided boat over that bass boat anyday. you dont want to make it easy for them.

[Splash]

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2012/03/05/292195_ntnews.html

...hot off the press...


Splash

[Dan5]

I know Pete deinoff......one of the guys that was in the boat.........he used to own the local tackle shop years ago.

Same thing happened to me at corroborree billabony 10 years ago..........gives ya shake up i can tell ya,

Low sided boats up here are spine tingling to be in........i often fish out of a small 4.2 punt with less than 300mm free board.......



Have you bought a boat yet Splasher?..........still moving up to Jabiru?

Dan

[Splash]

Hi Dan5.

Yes, placed the order about 4 weeks ago on a 4.1m poly.

So, it is still cooking, and then i need to have the BF50 installed.

I have just landed in Darwin 2 days ago, and will land in Jab this Friday.

Care to share your experience (at Coroboree) online?

Splash

[Dan5]

Hi Dan5.

Yes, placed the order about 4 weeks ago on a 4.1m poly.

So, it is still cooking, and then i need to have the BF50 installed.

I have just landed in Darwin 2 days ago, and will land in Jab this Friday.

Care to share your experience (at Coroboree) online?

Splash

Yeah well my experiance was pretty much the same as the others........minding our own buisness and a 4+ mtr croc grabbed the outboard (70hp suzuki) and then proceded to shake it.........I shit myself old mate up on the bow casting didn't belieive me.

The engine was running at the time and we never saw it coming.......just sitting there idling away and bang from out of the blue it had a go.

Scratched the engine and cracked the cowling slightly but not a lot of damage considering the violence it took the engine with really.


I'll certainly never forget it and when so called "locals' up here fob you off after you have warned them about the real dangers of crocs up here.........well wait until it does happen to you.......then you will be a bit more carefull at the waters edge my friend.

Had a few 'experiances' Splash..........propellor grabed in the Kimberly,a few fish taken out of my hands on release,one taken while in the net.........also saw a 17' to 18' croc launch 15' up a mudbank at the Daly and crush a six foot plus freshie and swallow it whole within 10 seconds flat.........no bullshit. Saw a croc take an egret out of a tree at the South Alligator.......easy 10ft jump.

Be wary splash........they are looking for a missing woman at the south alligator ramp as we speak........presumed taken.

Put it this way mate.....they are not all out to get you but if they do get you they more than likely will kill you.

Welcome to the territory.

Dan

[Jarrah Jack]

Gee Dan you trying to scare me away. I have some dates and will send a pm.

[Dan5]

Gee Dan you trying to scare me away. I have some dates and will send a pm.

No way mate no way..............scariest thing this year is the infrequent rain we are (not) having.......gunna be all over the show this year again IMO,

Dan

[Splash]

thanks Dan.

Sounds like 'Survival of the fittest..' out there!

Some great shared experiences...

Just curious - did these experiences happen to you at night or day time?

Splash

[Dan5]

thanks Dan.

Sounds like 'Survival of the fittest..' out there!

Some great shared experiences...

Just curious - did these experiences happen to you at night or day time?

Splash


Mostly daytime mate.........the croc in the landing net was at the mouth of Magella at night.

Dan

[GBC]

Might have to take a musician to check out the exhaust not of the honda - they reckon B flat is what sets off both crocs and alligators - closest sound to the vibrating noise they make when looking for a mate. Notice how all the outboards that get bitten are running? Seems to be a bit more of this going on with four strokes too? Just theorising......

This might bring back some perspective. This bloke has spent 4 weeks of each of the last 10 years padding his kayak around NT rivers on fishing trips. Only had to knock one angry one - so far. Not saying I'd be up for it........

http://www.akff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=30635