When do you need a braked trailer

[troy]

This has been worrying me for a long time and it will most likely confuse members.
My son bought a 4.6 dale fibreglass boat with a 70 e teck on it 2 years ago.
Now this boat builder is most likely not known to many but it is custom made and has a lot more glass in it then most of your popular brands.
This builder without doubt built quality boats but has now retired.
My son"s boat trailer is not braked and many more of these boats are the same.
So i thought i was not up with the regulations.
But i have been looking for a tinny a bit bigger then my 3.9 avalon as i do not own or want a bigger boat.
I wanted a tabs boat but no one up here in Nth Qld has the dealership.
So i had a look at the avalon 4.9 and was told i had to have a braked trailer as the boat motor and trailer is more then 750 kgs.
So where does it leave my son if he has a prang.
Troy

[finga]

Over 750kg of weight with the boat, motor, trailer and the rest of the gear in the boat or on the trailer definitely needs brakes old mate.
But check the car as well as a lot of cars require the use of brakes at less then the 750kg threshold.
What car has he got??

As for your son if he has a prang?? Dunno.

[gruntahunta]

Over 750kg of weight with the boat, motor, trailer and the rest of the gear in the boat or on the trailer definitely needs brakes old mate.
But check the car as well as a lot of cars require the use of brakes at less then the 750kg threshold.
What car has he got??

As for your son if he has a prang?? Dunno.



Not too many boats, motors and trailers loaded would go under 750kg. I have had about four/five 4.5 metre boats with 50Hp and not one ever has brakes on the trailer. One was brand new in 2000. My current is 4.75/85Hp and does have breaks. This also means a safety certificate is required for the trailer when advertising for sale.

[PinHead]

when do you need brakes on a trailer? Only when the mongrel in front of you jumps on the picks quickly..other than that..no need.
When I had the Striper..had the electric do dads..with the prodigy controller..never even bothered to set it up..just sitr back a bit and all is good..is it legal..hell no..never had any problems.

[oldie]

if he has a prang he will have no insurance full stop if they find the tow weight exceeds 750kg and has no brakes

[Fed]

In NSW they don't count the weight on the towball so if the whole rig weighs 850Kg but the weight on the towball was more than 100Kg then you wouldn't need brakes.

Probably the same in QLD but check first.

[Horse]

Same here. it over a weighbridge on the veihicle. Refuse stations often do it for free

[finga]

Whether or not brakes are required on a trailer is purely determined by GTM, as mentioned, which is the is the mass transmitted to the ground by the tyres of the trailer when coupled to a towing vehicle and carrying the maximum load recommended by the manufacturer or importer, approximately uniformly distributed over the load bearing area. ie ATM minus towball weight will give you GTM
A key to that is uniformly distributed. With a total weight of 850 and with a towball weight of 150 minimum there would be a concern in regards to 'approximately uniformly distributed'

But what is the ATM written on the little tag at the front of the trailer? That is the decider as to what weight can be on the trailer.

ATM is the total mass of the trailer when carrying the maximum load recommended by the manufacturer. This includes mass imposed onto the towing vehicle when the combination vehicle is resting on a horizontal supporting plane.


According to VSB1 (Commonwealth document) (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx#15)brakes ARE required on any trailer with a GTM (Gross Tare Mass) exceeding 0.75 Tonne.
Reference to document here http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx#15

All States have to abide by that document.
Here is a link to requirements in NSW and it seems they will abide by the old requirement (AIS 24) of no brakes needed if the trailer is less then 150kg in itself with no load.....BUT THAT IS ONLY FOR A TRAILER 1ST REGISTERED BEFORE 1ST OF JULY 1990.
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib03.pdf
There are some other exemptions applicable with AIS 24

Lots of boats weigh less then 750kgs on their trailer BUT when you fuel it up and add all the other stuff like esky's and fishing gear a lot of new boats sold legally on a non-braked trailer will become illegal according to the ATM on the compliance plate on the trailer.
Check the little tag on the side. It will have a ATM figure stamped or engraved on it. With no brakes it will be 750kgs....no towball weights mentioned on that plate.
If there is no compliance plate on the trailer as it was first registered before when-ever the cut off date was then you may have a little leeway in regards to weight but not much. And only if the trailer could reasonably carry that weight.

I've never seen a GTM on a trailer. Anyone have a GTM on their trailer compliance plate?

[cormorant]

assumably a trailer at 75o kg or over not attached to a vehicle on public land would be illegal but attach it to a car and it is legal?

Careful with manufacture plates a swell if you are close to the limit . By the time walkway, spare tyre, electric winch , extra rollers it all adds up.

If there was a accident the insurer could wipe their hands of you . You may get lucky and they may apportion the claim if teh trailer having no brakes didn't contribute to the accident. Hope you have deep pockets to gain that result. Police and Traffic authority are different again and if they book you for the accident and for the trailer is overweight , not roadworthy etc insurers will walk away. In small accidents none of eth above is likely to really happen depending on how nasty it gets , whether police attend etc but if there is a death or major accident you can expect your car and trailer to be closely looked at as insurers scramble to appoint blame and try and deny responsibility at every opportunity. That goes for brakes that don't work , stainless cables, rates shackles and are not maintained etc.

[Lovey80]

What is the most GTM a single axle trailer can be before it requires dual axles? Am I correct that 2200Kg is the maximum before electronic break away is required?

[Jarrah Jack]

What is the most GTM a single axle trailer can be before it requires dual axles? Am I correct that 2200Kg is the maximum before electronic break away is required?

2000kg Lovely :)

[finga]

What is the most GTM a single axle trailer can be before it requires dual axles? Am I correct that 2200Kg is the maximum before electronic break away is required?
Mate, the single axle requirement is purely up to the load rating of the axle, suspension and tyres.
I have a couple of axles here that I'm going to build a bit of a trailer with.
They're 61mm round with 12X2" electric brakes. They're rated at 3,000kgs per axle. This would be legal to use at that rating if the tyres and suspension match, or better, the axle rating.
I'm going to use both axles to make a trailer rated at 3500kg

And it doesn't actually say you need an electronic breakaway dodad at over 2 tonne.
Here is a quote from VSB1
Every trailer over 2 tonnes GTM must have brakes operating on all wheels. The brake system must cause immediate application of the trailer brakes in the event of the trailer becoming detached from the towing vehicle. Under these circumstances, the brakes must remain applied for at least 15 minutes.

A breakaway switch, relay and a big battery will do that won't it??.

[Feral]

1500kg is the heaviest I have seen a single axle braked trailer rated at.
You need to be very careful as a lot of cars now are only rated to tow 500kg before needing brakes. Bigger cars have allowed higher tow weights, but at a reduced speed limit. EG My ford is rated to tow 2.3 tonnes, but only at 80kph.

[Lovey80]

Ok sweet, this trailer I am building is simple hydraulic brakes on "single axle" and I intend to rate it at 1950kg. So I am good there

[cormorant]

What 1000kg rated tyres are you using and what rims? Full weight will be hard on bearings as well. Running parallel F truck?

[Lovey80]

What 1000kg rated tyres are you using and what rims? Full weight will be hard on bearings as well. Running parallel F truck?

Tyre are 1120kg rated BF Goodrich All terrains on Speedy Avalanche 17" mags rated at 1120kg also. The bearings are the largest I have ever seen on a non commercial trailer. Even the dura hub extremes are the largest they make (2.5").

That said it would be lucky to come close to those weights once or twice a year.

[troy]

What i have found out you need a braked trailer if boat motor and trailer is over 750.
What i cannot understand is how this boat builder got them registered when anyone with half a brain could see that his product was well in truly over and it was not a isolated case.
Troy

[finga]

What 1000kg rated tyres are you using and what rims? Full weight will be hard on bearings as well. Running parallel F truck?
With my trailer it's Landcruiser rims and Dexter hubs.

Lovely....mate, check with who you got the braked axle from to weight capacity.
Pending type of brakes and axle size you may not get the magic 1950kg.
What springs are you going to use??
You might be only able to go to 1700kg with a single axle.

[chris69]

You will find that a lot of boat packages around 4.5mts will have a 40hp 2st for this reason of have a braked trailer for over 750kg weight limit, it makes it a cheaper package to be under the 750kg, i talked to my mate about this when got his bluefin 4.5 when he said he was upgrading to a DF50 suzuki 4st,it does not take much to go over when you have extras,

battery 20kg
bowmount and battery 50kg plus
60lts fuel 60kg roughly
motor 110kg
sounder and electrics may be 6kg
safety gear flares epirb 10kg
boat 375kg

thats 631kg with out the trailer and fishing gear and ancher and rope and chain, eski ,food, ice, in the boat.

[cormorant]

Trailers are registered without boats on them. The crime happens when the boat is put on them and they are on a public road. Some day a professional boat seller will go to goal as a novice will end up with a death caused by a overweight trailer. A lot of boats out of the moulds are never as light as they like to be and motors weight dry without prop alloy or steel wheels etc etc.

In the last 10 years t seems to have got a lot better than it was before that and that may be because the larger companies finally imposed upon their dealers putting the correct trailer under the boat. That coincided with a lot of rated but very thin and cheap nasty trailers. Ya can't win.

[Lovey80]

With my trailer it's Landcruiser rims and Dexter hubs.

Lovely....mate, check with who you got the braked axle from to weight capacity.
Pending type of brakes and axle size you may not get the magic 1950kg.
What springs are you going to use??
You might be only able to go to 1700kg with a single axle.

Who I got the braked axle from? I made the axle lol and I'll deem it's capacity lol

Springs are an old man Emu progressive rate with airbags in the centre. See my build thread. I will be getting new stiffer coils at a later date once the trailer is complete.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?179661-My-Home-Made-Ally-Trailer-Build.&p=1346027

[finga]

Oh. That trailer. It's a beauty alright :)

[BM]

Mate, the single axle requirement is purely up to the load rating of the axle, suspension and tyres.
I have a couple of axles here that I'm going to build a bit of a trailer with.
They're 61mm round with 12X2" electric brakes. They're rated at 3,000kgs per axle. This would be legal to use at that rating if the tyres and suspension match, or better, the axle rating.
I'm going to use both axles to make a trailer rated at 3500kg

And it doesn't actually say you need an electronic breakaway dodad at over 2 tonne.
Here is a quote from VSB1
Every trailer over 2 tonnes GTM must have brakes operating on all wheels. The brake system must cause immediate application of the trailer brakes in the event of the trailer becoming detached from the towing vehicle. Under these circumstances, the brakes must remain applied for at least 15 minutes.

A breakaway switch, relay and a big battery will do that won't it??.


Finga you are correct except that VSB1 also goes on to state that over 2 ton and the brakes must be operated from inside the cabin of the vehicle. Ie: an electric controller operating either an electric/hydraulic actuator or electric brakes. The actuator has built into it the breakaway components.

[Fed]

Tell your son to go and weigh it Troy.

[finga]

Finga you are correct except that VSB1 also goes on to state that over 2 ton and the brakes must be operated from inside the cabin of the vehicle. Ie: an electric controller operating either an electric/hydraulic actuator or electric brakes. The actuator has built into it the breakaway components.
Yes. Brakes have to be able to operate from inside the cab for over 2 tonne.
Normally it's simply an electric brake controller like the Prodigy or Tekonsha or the meriad of other controllers fitted in a cab.

I don't quite follow the bit in blue.
Could you explain that a bit better please?

Here is a US page showing what's in one of those smart boxes on the A-frame of a trailer that makes the electric brakes work when it leaves a vehicle.
It's mainly a switch (with not even a relay) and a battery and a battery charger. The requirements of breakaway brakes in the US is the same as here by the preblurb on this page
http://www.championtrailers.com/Electric%20brake%20control%20wiring.pdf

[justlovefishing]

I do rwc and havrass every day on trailers , trucks and cars.
The rules for a pig trailer which is the classification a boat trailer fall under are
very light trailer with a ATM of up to and including0.75 kg no brakes required
light trailer with ATM over 0.75kg upto and including 2.0t must have over run or power brakes fitted being air vacumn or electric on one wheel over 2.0t and up to and including 3.5 t must have air vacumn or eletric brakes which are operated from the drivers compartment . Brakes must be on all wheels for any trailer with a ATM of more than 2t. you must also have a breakaway system fitted which will apply the brakes automatically if the trailer disconects from the tow vehicle.
There is no rule that alows me to knock a trailer if it is loaded for more than it is plated. This is up to the indivual to do the right thing. You will loose your insurance if you go over the trailers limit and if the qld transprt pull you over and weigh you you will get fined if the trailer is over loaded.
go to QLd transport site and do a search for pig trailer inspection form it details all the requirments . If you are building a trailer it must also comply with set dimentions and certian suspention . Too often I get people come to the workshop with there new trailer they have built to be told it does not comply and cant be registered.

[finga]

for any trailer with a ATM of more than 2t. you must also have a breakaway system fitted which will apply the brakes automatically if the trailer disconects from the tow vehicle..
Thanks very much for your post.

I've just come across this for NSW. They require you to be able to monitor the breakaway battery from in your cab with an audible or visual warning device if the battery is not fully charged.
Is this in QLD as well??
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_20 07.pdf

I'm also going to put a dirty big winch (9,000 lb) on the front of the trailer with it's own batteries.
Do I need to have one of those fancy little breakaway battery boxes with the built in charger or can I work the breakaway brakes from the huge battery or two I'll have on the front of the trailer?
This battery (or batteries) will be able to be charged from the car.
Cheers then
Scott

[BM]

Thanks very much for your post.

I've just come across this for NSW. They require you to be able to monitor the breakaway battery from in your cab with an audible or visual warning device if the battery is not fully charged.
Is this in QLD as well??
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_20 07.pdf

I'm also going to put a dirty big winch (9,000 lb) on the front of the trailer with it's own batteries.
Do I need to have one of those fancy little breakaway battery boxes with the built in charger or can I work the breakaway brakes from the huge battery or two I'll have on the front of the trailer?
This battery (or batteries) will be able to be charged from the car.
Cheers then
Scott

Hi Scott, I thought I replied to your prior post but it seems to have been lost in the never never?!

The electric/hydraulic units also incorporate the breakaway pull pin as part of the system as a whole. Not quite sure how to answer you previous question other than that.

Electric brake systems are simple and only require power applied to the brakes for breakaway. No eleccy/hydro unit needed.

Some of the Yank over-run brake systems also incorporate a nifty spring loaded system attached to a breakaway lever enabling a basic over-run mechanical brake system to still have a breakaway. Very clever. Not legal here though :(

You don't need to buy a commercially made system for your breakaway in terms of the battery. Stick a battery on the trailer and charge it via the power wire in your trailer connector harness (or add a wire direct from battery switched via ignition). Breakway pull in assembly is usually about $20.

But. If you are running hydraulic brakes which you will need above 2 ton (or electric) then you need an electric/hydraulic brake controller which comes as a kit including the battery and the pull pin etc and is part of the whole system. So making up your own breakaway parts is pointless when you need the rest of the system and that system has the breakaway included.

Did I get that clear enough? It doesn't read as clearly as I would like!

Cheers

[finga]

Goodo then matey.
I'm using pure electric brakes. Hydraulic seem to get too messy and too many things to go bung.

[BM]

I like electric brakes and if they are well looked after I see no problems with them. Same goes for hydraulic drums.

But I must admit that my opinion goes against the general flow!!

[Lovey80]

What is the defenition of "over run" brakes?

[finga]

What is the defenition of "over run" brakes?
Anything operated by a cable like a handbrake cable....not an electrical cable.
Over run...over ride....all the same.
They usually have something looking like this on the trailer.
They all have a plunger sort of set-up in the hitch


http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00FvzTnuBJfZrR/Trailer-Part-Over-Ride-Coupling-CO2000Z-B-.jpg

[BM]

Chris, it's as per fingas explanation mate. They are sometimes also called inertia brakes. The trailer 'over-runs' the vehicle towing and activates the brakes via a spring loaded coupling which either operates a hydraulic piston in a hydro setup or a cantilever arm setup pulling on a wire cable for mechanical setup.

[Lovey80]

Ah thanks guys that is exactly what I have, with the hydraulic master cylinder. Just never used the "over ride " terminology before.

[Feral]

T
I'm also going to put a dirty big winch (9,000 lb) on the front of the trailer with it's own batteries.
Do I need to have one of those fancy little breakaway battery boxes with the built in charger or can I work the breakaway brakes from the huge battery or two I'll have on the front of the trailer?


Dont forget you also have a maximum allowed towball weight as well. This is applied / rated for the tow vehicle, not the trailer. Usually varies between 90 and 150kg.

[finga]

Dont forget you also have a maximum allowed towball weight as well. This is applied / rated for the tow vehicle, not the trailer. Usually varies between 90 and 150kg.
Absolutely and thanks for bringing it up matey.
I read with palpitations when I read people saying they need at least 10% of trailer weight on the tow-ball.
Even for a box trailer that's 75kgs when it's loaded. 150kgs for a 5m boat.
Way too much weight on a towbar.
The trailer I'm building will have a 4.8m deck on it so the balancing thing will be easier to control. if too much weight on the front just move it back a bit :)