Battery Charge - Voltage = 16V ???

[Angryant]

I took the boat out today and noticed that the Yamaha gauge was showing the battery voltage as 16v. The display was flashing. I switched to the second battery and as I revved to 4500rpm the voltage increased again to 16v.

This can't be normal. What is the maximum voltage that should be charging the batteries when cruising? Could I have a faulty regulator in the motor? The motor is a F100 4st Yamaha.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Angry.

[bf90]

14.5 v max when the motor is running. Once ya get into the high 14's and into the 15's ya start to really cook ya battery. Sounds like ya voltage regulator could be sus or the gauge, grab a multi meter and put that on ya battery when the donk is running and if the volts is high still ya will know it is ya regulator, if volts is good then ya know it is the gauge, cheers.

[frankgrimes]

I took the boat out today and noticed that the Yamaha gauge was showing the battery voltage as 16v. The display was flashing. I switched to the second battery and as I revved to 4500rpm the voltage increased again to 16v.

This can't be normal. What is the maximum voltage that should be charging the batteries when cruising? Could I have a faulty regulator in the motor? The motor is a F100 4st Yamaha.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Angry.

Hey Angry - had a mate with a 115 4stroke yammy that had a similar prob(~18 months ago) - dealer+yammy stated it was "normal"...but imo, anything causing an alarm needs to be checked out.

[TopBhoy]

Hey Angry - had a mate with a 115 4stroke yammy that had a similar prob(~18 months ago) - dealer+yammy stated it was "normal"...but imo, anything causing an alarm needs to be checked out.

I hope your mate got that in writing from them :)
Ask them under what criteria should the alarm be ignored. They should provide you with the written answer. ;)

Q: When is an alarm not an alarm?
A: When its on a yammie outboard ;D

[frankgrimes]

I hope your mate got that in writing from them :)

Q: When is an alarm not an alarm?
A: When its on a yammie outboard ;D


He did (I made him!)...he's since sold the boat...would love to hear what other yammy 4 stroke owners are seeing?(And if up ~16v, what are there dealer etc are saying is "within normal range")

[TopBhoy]

He did (I made him!)...he's since sold the boat...would love to hear what other yammy 4 stroke owners are seeing?(And if up ~16v, what are there dealer etc are saying is "within normal range")

I'm sure the marine mechanics on here will be able to comprehensively answer that for you pretty soon.

[Triple]

16v is too much and will boil the battery.. I will bet your reg is shot. Do as stated with multi on the batt and the output on the alt. shouldn't be more the 14.8 (will go that high trying to charge a drained battery after starting). Check the reg wires havent come loose/broken too..

[DazB]

Recifyier/regulator shot.... I had one replaced on a 2005 F80 about 3 years ago and it cost me about 900 including a full service and impellor. About $600 was for the part....

[outta line]

yep mates old man had the same problem with his brand new F115 4 stroke yamaha with 2hrs on the clock . They changed regulaters and still over charging at 16v it ended up being the batteries. He had new dual supercharge no maintenance that were frying the regs and over charging.
Changed the batteries and another reg and problem fixed. Don't know what batteries you are running? but definitely fixed the over charging problem for him.
hope this helps
cheers Mick

[Angryant]

Recifyier/regulator shot.... I had one replaced on a 2005 F80 about 3 years ago and it cost me about 900 including a full service and impellor. About $600 was for the part....

Ouch, now you are really starting to scare me....

[Angryant]

yep mates old man had the same problem with his brand new F115 4 stroke yamaha with 2hrs on the clock . They changed regulaters and still over charging at 16v it ended up being the batteries. He had new dual supercharge low maintenance that were frying the regs and over charging.
Changed the batteries and another reg and problem fixed. Don't know what batteries you are running? but definitely fixed the over charging problem for him.
hope this helps
cheers Mick

I have two Sea Master batteries (MFM70) 720 CCA - both were purchased in May last year. And both have recently charged using a multi-stage charger so they would have been fine regarding voltage.

[outta line]

think you will find it will be the batteries as they are the same batteries he had and were frying the voltage regulator on the motor.
How many hours of running have you done with the batteries since may ? you may of already fryed your reg it only took 2hrs running to fry his . Changing the reg without the batteries will only fry your new reg . maybe you could borrow some batteries off a mate and try it ..... it is exactly the same problem and it fixed his

[Angryant]

think you will find it will be the batteries as they are the same batteries he had and were frying the voltage regulator on the motor.
How many hours of running have you done with the batteries since may ? you may of already fryed your reg it only took 2hrs running to fry his . Changing the reg without the batteries will only fry your new reg . maybe you could borrow some batteries off a mate and try it ..... it is exactly the same problem and it fixed his

Thanks for the info - I have done about 23 hours since purchasing the new batteries. I might take it to a dealer tomoorow and see what they say. I wonder; is it the brand or the size that is frying the regulator?

[outta line]

Wyunnm marine should know about it as thats where he bought his motor from and working together they found the problem...its to much of a coincidence same batteries same problem.CCA should be fine maybe its the way the maintenance free batteries charge and hold charge.........interested to here how you get on....cheers

[Angryant]

Wyunnm marine should know about it as thats where he bought his motor from and working together they found the problem...its to much of a coincidence same batteries same problem.CCA should be fine maybe its the way the maintenance free batteries charge and hold charge.........interested to here how you get on....cheers

I'll call them tomorrow and get it checked out. Thanks for the info. I'll let you know the outcome.
Angry

[Angryant]

outta line - you are correct. I spoke to Wynnum Marine this morning and he confirmed exactly what you said.
Soooooo, I have ordered a new regulator ($415.00) and two new batteries. Hopefully it should all be sorted by tomorrow afternoon.

Anyone in the market for one or two Sea Master Gold batteries - only 8 months old?

[weeman]

With it being a battery problem would the manufacturer not be responsible for the repair?

[TopBhoy]

outta line - you are correct. I spoke to Wynnum Marine this morning and he confirmed exactly what you said.
Soooooo, I have ordered a new regulator ($415.00) and two new batteries. Hopefully it should all be sorted by tomorrow afternoon.

Anyone in the market for one or two Sea Master Gold batteries - only 8 months old?
Will these batteries not fry someone elses regulator or is it particular only to this make and model of outboard? What makes these different from every other battery out there? Just curious!!

[Angryant]

Will these batteries not fry someone elses regulator or is it particular only to this make and model of outboard? What makes these different from every other battery out there? Just curious!!

Mate, good question. When I spoke to the tech today he only referenced Yamaha 4 stroke motors. Whether any other brand or 2 strokes are affected is an unknown by me. Apparently Yamaha said there is nothing wrong with the regulators and the manufacturer of the batteries is at fault. Guess what the battery manufacturer said...............
An exercise that will cost me about $760.
Anybody else had the same problem and you don't own a YAMMIE 4ST?

Angry

[ozscott]

I was told by the head mech at a dealer that I trust that 15 volts on a Yammy 2 stroke reading on the GPS and sounder when running on the plane is fine. 16 -17 is a problem he says.

Cheers

[den001]

anything over 14.8 volts will boil the electrolyte and cause it to heat, and it will begin to melt the casing...

[outta line]

outta line - you are correct. I spoke to Wynnum Marine this morning and he confirmed exactly what you said.
Soooooo, I have ordered a new regulator ($415.00) and two new batteries. Hopefully it should all be sorted by tomorrow afternoon.

Anyone in the market for one or two Sea Master Gold batteries - only 8 months old?

All good mate...Thats why i was stressing to change your batteries when you change your reg as you would of only fried the new reg and would of been out of pocket more....it will be fine with the new batteries . Ive had 2 century 720 marine pros in my boat for a year now running a df 200 jon/suk all electrics and do weekenders with no probs..... (touch wood)......your old ones would make good 4x4 batteries ..lol.......i know you have stated it here asking anyone if they have had problems with the SM gold bat. May be you should start a forum asking who has the SMG Batteries in there boat and problems they mite of had. Other people with over charging problems may not be aware of the batterie problem. If its not just yamaha with the problem you have a good leg to stand on and go back to supper charge with your findings .
cheers mick

[Spaniard_King]

They will do well in a Honda, how much you asking :) :) :)

[surveyor]

Hi
are we talking supercharge seamaster gold???,did he explian why they are a problem.it sounds strange was it internal resistance or something??
cheers

[Angryant]

They will do well in a Honda, how much you asking :) :) :)

Garry,

If you would like them give me a call or shoot me an email tomorrow and we'll sort something out.

Andrew

[ozscott]

anything over 14.8 volts will boil the electrolyte and cause it to heat, and it will begin to melt the casing...

What about all those unregulated motors out there running 17 volts plus at speed. I have seen many threads about this where people have had 17 volts or so going into a battery for years with no ill effects and most electronics have a wide range of voltage.

I am going to keep running at 15 volts so will let you know if it is a problem...

Cheers

[Noelm]

I find it somewhat strange that a battery type/brand could cause this problem (I am not saying it isn't the case) but there needs to be further investigation, and if the battery makers cannot help, then perhaps someone from a Yamaha dealer might be able to sus out what goes on, I kind of doubt Yamaha's charging system is so different to every other maker out there, but, seeing as this problem only occurrs with a Yamaha outboard, I can see how the battery makers are washing their hands of it.

[Angryant]

Noelm,

I hear what you are saying. I am somewhat perplexed by the whole situation. I have the boat booked in at the dealer this afternoon so I'm hoping to ask some more questions, however, I think the response will be what I had previously indicated. I also spoke to the battery retailer and he is taking the issue up with Super Charge and will see what they say. I would love to just change the regulator and see what happens BUT I can't take the financial risk.

Andrew

[bribiegreen]

Hello Angry,
I have found a good graph that shows some of the battery charging info that may help you. This info is from a website called batteryfaq.org.
A lot of new Calcium wet batteries require a different charge curve than older style batteries we were all used to.
This charge curve is relative to the Supercharge Batteries you have.
I in no way have a barrow to push for Supercharge (they know me well and would confirm this, as I now sell another brand of battery)
I hope your problem is sorted out for you ,75622

[cormorant]

There is a amazing range of battery chemistry out there but I can't quite understand how a regulator doesn't stop charging when it feels the battery is at the required voltage and then starts charging again when required.

Is it the cycling on and off that is frying the Yammmie regs or what?
Does the battery have some form of resister in it or no resistance design so regulator can't recognise it is charging? or some other weird construction?

Some of the fancy car alternators are puting out short bursts of high voltage with fancy electronics to recharge new fancy chemistry small batteries ( merc benz are known for it as are some europeans )


Ozscott- high voltage can lead to hot battery , gassing ( explosion) and in sealed batteries high pressures in cases or cases that distort from expanding plates or gas. It can be moderated by large high capacity batteries in the old days but in reality old lead acids could cop a hammering and survive but some of the new chemistry ones are more fickle to get good life and performance from. Check the actual voltage at the end of the battery leads as well as it may be slightly lower depending on length and quality. Careful about going to new chemistry batteries with boat charging systems not smart enough to ever charge them properly and often at the wrong voltages.

I'd be getting the Yammi dealer to supply and install the new batteries and pay to have the complete electrical system checked. I'd be looking for worn sheathing causing a possible short or a battery cable internally corroded as well. After installation I'd have them check all voltages around the boat

Biggest reason we used to see for reg failure was crap battery switches and people who would change from battery 1 to battery 2 via going past teh off section on the switch rather than teh 1 + 2. This would kill electronics in boats with a voltage spike, fry reg on occasions and was especially so in battery switches that wern't make before break.

[ozscott]

Cormorant - I take it 15volts is not at that level you are warning about...16 yes, but not 15? When my regulator went it my last yammy it was charging at 17 volts, but I would have thought 15 would be ok, but on the high side of ok.

Cheers

[cormorant]

A true 15 v with decent current will cook a battery. 15v with low current on a large battery - well not a lot of harm depending on run times.
Unless it is something special about Yammi I can't see why they aren't regulated properly.

Most batteries won't last their full life being charged at a true higher rate. but it may be cheaper to buy batteries every 4 instead of 5 years than fix it?

A stator , reg is either in spec or not. If it is out of spec it should get fixed but maybe with so many out of spec and knowing the costs dealers have given up?

A cheap battery getting charged badly - well maybe but to hell with my good ones getting fried on not their full life as they are just so bloody expensive.

Check the manual and see what the output spec should be , weigh up the costs . I don't know yammi well but in other brands it is a sure fire warning something is not right. With some it will fail and collapse and others it will continue for ever just overcharging.. The computers don't like it and depends how modern the ignition system is. Old tech is sometimes a blessing when something fails as it doesn't stop the whole motor running.

[bigjimg]

We got F30's on the work boats with Seamaster Gold batteries,130 and 81 hrs respectively,with no problems.Somehow I reckon it is not the batteries that are the problem.The Yammy gauges are reading 15-15.2v.Jim

[ozscott]

Sweet bigjimb. Cheers

[Angryant]

I had the voltage regulator replaced and I also replaced both batteries. All fixed now.

[outta line]

was wondering how you go on ..good to here mate ...you shouldn't have any more problems ...........other than this weather:'(