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Crunchy
24-12-2011, 07:32 PM
Did my first bearing inspection today, got a feeling I put the seal on wrong, when I pulled the hub off there was a metal flange in the hub butted up to the inner bearing and a rubber seal on the shaft. After checking and re-greasing the bearing I fitted the rubber seal onto the shaft and tapped the metal flange back into the hub. Put the hub back on and thought, "I got a feeling the flange and the seal are supposed to be integrated unit" so have stopped putting it all back together until I sort it out. So my question is, would you normally fit the seal into the hub befor putting the hub back on? I'm thinking so. Ford bearings 45mm shaft if that makes any difference.

Cheers
Crunchy

Dan5
24-12-2011, 07:39 PM
Crunchy by name Crunchy by bearing!!.......hey bloke put some photos up so we can see whats happened.......it'll be an easy fix i'm sure

finga
24-12-2011, 08:22 PM
On a marine seal the rubber bit is supposed to be stuck to the axle (ie no movement allowed)
The moving bit is between the rubber and the stainless bit you wolloped into the hub.
They're not supposed to be an integrated unit.

Crunchy
24-12-2011, 08:31 PM
On a marine seal the rubber bit is supposed to be stuck to the axle (ie no movement allowed)
The moving bit is between the rubber and the stainless bit you wolloped into the hub.
They're not supposed to be an integrated unit.
Thanks buddy

Scalem
24-12-2011, 08:46 PM
I might have it totally wrong but is this what you are talking about Crunchy?

1st photo the inner ring and the rubber seal

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/Innerseal1.jpg


Looking at the rubber seal on its side you can see a small track, which is mean to .. see next

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/Innerseal2.jpg

Placing the rubber on the right, over the top of the ring, gently push on the rubber seal till you see the rubber emerge the other side of the ring, and you see the flange of the ring fit into the track of the rubber seal.

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/Innerseal3.jpg

Nearly there, working your way around

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/Innerseal4.jpg

Done, this is the finished ring and seal ready to tap into the inside of the hub where the larger bearing is, being sure to put plently of grease on the shaft of the axle

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/Innerseal5.jpg

I might be totally wrong, but this is holding up for me since I serviced them.

Scalem

Crunchy
24-12-2011, 08:54 PM
Yeh the metal bit looks the same but I think the rubber seal looks different, will pull it off tomorrow (beers, wine pending) and have a look. if I look at mine side on it does not have the same profile ( no groove) but does have a " groove" front on.

Cheers !

Scalem
24-12-2011, 09:08 PM
Should be the same, but I may have confused you by my photo. In the 2nd photo I have the rubber seal underneath the ring. Place the rubber seal on top of the ring, as you see them then push gently.

See how you go!

Scalem

Fed
25-12-2011, 05:58 AM
WOW, time for you to go back to seal school scalem.

The seal is supposed to remain stationary on the axle and the running surface is between the seal & the SS insert.

Are you actually running your seals like that now, amazing?

FWIW Crunchy I add sealant between the outer SS insert & the hub and also between the the inner seal and the axle.

finga
26-12-2011, 09:22 AM
That's all wrong Brian.
Lucky for you you have a spare because your gunna need them.

I'll go out and take some pictures now this instant.

finga
26-12-2011, 09:36 AM
Actually the first picture Brian has is right and how they should go into the hub.
In the second picture if you put the rubber bit on top of the stainless bit then the orientation is right and how they go into the hub (the hub would be lower then the stainless bit)
But from then on it's all wrong.
Pretend the bit of pipe is the back of your hub where the seal goes.
This is how the stainless bit goes in.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UV46WF2CbKg/TvexTpzeTRI/AAAAAAAAAXU/kPgDogbnAA0/s800/26122011523.JPG

And this is how the rubber bit goes in
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pVc-biZaHrU/TvexUtzE8XI/AAAAAAAAAXY/YzCodAlknCg/s800/26122011524.JPG

And this is how the lot is orientated with the smaller pipe representing the axle
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QtLrobg5EBY/TvexWM39oXI/AAAAAAAAAXc/WathRakLNNw/s800/26122011525.JPG

The rubber bit is not supposed to move on your axle. It is supposed to be fixed to your axle. I actually glue the rubber bit to the axle.
The stainless bit is fixed to your hub. Normally due to the tight fit but as Fed has said a bit of sealant would not go astray

The join between the rubber and the stainless is where the movement is supposed to be and is where you smear some grease.

I know what you should be doing in the next few days Brian.

Scalem
26-12-2011, 03:12 PM
Ok Guys, humble pie for me:-[ Thanks for pointing this out. Actually its not as bad as you think Finga, it's only because one of my bearing buddies was spitting grease all over the place that I thought something was wrong in one of the front hubs. That is the only reason I had this one apart, the rubber O ring in the BB was stuffed. Checked the other 3 ( tandum axle) and everything is AOK. I have spares all over the place, rings and seals, will have this fixed in 30 mins max.

Thanks again.

Scalem

finga
26-12-2011, 03:55 PM
Goodo then Brian.
Enjoy your Christmas and say gidday to the troops.
Does Leslie's mum still come over every year??

Scalem
26-12-2011, 06:18 PM
Forgot, it was the braked hub:-? Surface rust on the brake shoes made it a little slower putting it all back together, done now. It's worth noting, popped the mellon underneath while spinning the hub to make sure the seal stayed put. I noticed the slightest wobble in the stainless ring, so after taking it all off again, gentle tap around to seat the ring down, and its good as gold.

Mother in law is not expected to make it to next Christmas, in a nursing home and we are in discussions about putting her in a locakble room. Dementure has set in very quickly over the last couple of years, she wanders all over the place, even into other peoples units. 82 years would do that to many. Sad, but that's life.

Scalem

johncar
26-12-2011, 08:22 PM
Great thread, I see these seals installed wrongly so often and by new trailer suppliers too. I have found it useful when fitting all new bearings and seals of this type to clean everything thing up, fit the new bearings and SS outer seal flange, only lightly smeared with grease. Make sure the axle is completely degreased and dry, then dry fit the rubber seal to the axle but not all the way on but amost. Then slide the hub on and tension the axle nut to the normal running position. This should get the seal into the best position, hopefully it will be hard up against the machining if the axle was designed for it but often not so it can be necessary to mark the seals position on the dry axle.

Remove the hub again note or mark the seals position with a permanent marker pen. The most important part of making these seals work as they are intended, remove the rubber inner part of the seal and glue it onto the axle in it's correct location, make sure that the is no grease at all on the seal or axle, clean it with petrol of acetone or something and let it completely dry, a light sand where the seal is to be glued wont hurt.

If this is done correctly and then pack the hub and bearings and outer seal as normal wack normal outer caps on the hubs, no real need for bearing buddies IMO just an annual check and grease repack and you should have many years of trouble free trailering. That has been my experience at least.

Fed
26-12-2011, 08:43 PM
I took a few measurements and made up spacers to go behind the seals on a conversion I did for an axle that was designed for the old type seals John.
It was a huge success with no chance of blowing the seals out.

Now who knows how to stop those disks rusting?

Crunchy
26-12-2011, 08:50 PM
Damn you to he'll Johncar, I don't mean that... I spent hours putting it all back together today, it was the brake cailper that caused the most greif. My mistake then was that I greased the shaft and a light smear on the seal, although it does seem to stay put when I spin the wheel. Will pull it apart again and redo as you advise but not for a few months. Interesting I haven't looked at the bearings since had the boat, about 3 years. They were perfect, Jap bearings, no sign of water (I dunk over my hubs on each launch and retrieve) chock full of grease, use bearing buddies but one has popped a leak as yours Scalem.

Fed
26-12-2011, 08:52 PM
Does your seal butt up to the square on the axle Crunchy, if so then you're good to go.

johncar
27-12-2011, 10:06 PM
Yeah Crunchy you may get away with it if the seal is hard up against the square axle shoulder machining as Fed said. Some of my experiences were that the seal just sat in no mans land and once a bit of grease got under it, the seal would just just start spinning on the axle and no doubt fail not too long after if let go. So I glued them on ever since with no more issues and a very reliable system. Over pressuring bearing buddies can actually blow these types of seals out too so one has to be wary of that.
Not a lover of bearing buddies in a general sense because there are so many knock offs out there on the market that really dont perform that well although they look the part. The last trailer I owned I threw away the manufacturer supplied BB's which just didn't work properly and installed original genuine US made product and they worked as they are meant to. But I still don't think they are needed at all if the hub and seal is assembled is serviced correctly whether you dunk your trailer or not.

It would be interesting for some boating magazine to do a definitive test on different systems and measuring failures over time, but I guess it's difficult as there are a lot of variables and all systems should work if they are maintained.

John Buoy
29-12-2011, 01:29 PM
What are you guys using to glue the seal to the hub?
Regards frank

finga
29-12-2011, 03:57 PM
I use loctite 480 but if that bottle is dry I simply use the Loctite 401 to glue the rubber bit of the marine seal to the axle.
And I simply use a bit of Loctite 620 around the stainless bit before it goes into the hub .

John Buoy
01-01-2012, 11:41 AM
I use loctite 480 but if that bottle is dry I simply use the Loctite 401 to glue the rubber bit of the marine seal to the axle.
And I simply use a bit of Loctite 620 around the stainless bit before it goes into the hub .

Cheers Finga sounds like a good idea!! ;)