Chinese wheel bearings

[winston]

I am presently doing my annual wheel bearing maintenance. My trailer was new in December last year. I noticed that the bearings are "made in China". I am now off to buy some replacement bearings as I can see a little rust on the rear bearing. I will buy Timken bearings but just wondering what the quality diffenence would be. Cheers Winston.

[Noelm]

my experience is that the better brands (Timken) are far superior with little extra cost to the cheap rubbish, mind you, all of them will bugger up with no grease.

[Bros]

There are a lot of Chinese bearings on trailers and you don't see them failing all the time. My personal opinion is depends on the load on the trailer and what you will do with it. If you have a tinnie and drive around surburbia and the trailer is lightly loaded use the Chinese ones. Timken are no more rust resistant than Chinese ones.

With the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised to see Timken Made in China.

[finga]

my experience is that the better brands (Timken) are far superior with little extra cost to the cheap rubbish, mind you, all of them will bugger up with no grease.
Yep. And they all rust the same.

It's really weird. I use the Chinese myself but use Japanese for everyone else.
I normally have a couple of sets of each of the Chinese and Japanese and for Ford and Holden complete with marine seals sitting on the shelf just in case.

I've never had a problem with Chinese but I don't push my trailers along or abuse them like some.

[TheRealAndy]

I just pulled down the bearings on the rag boat trailer for a look last weekend. Its been sitting in the hardstand now for year and half, with one trip to tin can bay and hervey bay, so bugger all use other than standard hardstand launch duties. I was astounded to find the timken bearings in perfect nick. This is the first boat on hardstand that has not had any issues with bearings.

But..... Here is the tip. This is the first boat on the hard that I have owned that came with bearing buddies. I keep the grease up at all times. Very good you say, but I also own the polycraft, which has not had a bearing change since I bought it about 4 year ago, its also has bearing buddies that I keep greased up all the time. After seeing the rag boat bearings, I am now sold.

I reckon chinese bearings with bearing buddies and you will probably do ok. But for those who are scared like me (bearing failure on side of road is not fun) I will always stick with timken.

[finga]

Has any one had a catastrophic bearing failure where there have been no signs of impending failure?? ie bearing totally collapsing with the grease not all milky and seals and bearing caps still on

The only reason I ask is at Evans we know who's gone fishing early because of the bearing noises. Every one is different.
And when ever I visit Ian down at the tackle shop I reckon at least 2 out of 3 boat trailers have crook bearing in the hubs. The noises that come out of them is quite frightening when you consider they could be going for miles until they get home.
I don't know how some of the trailers got up the ramp the noise is that bad.
But I suppose with all the windows up and the acca dacca pumping out at 567 decibels who hears a bearing in a trailer tearing it's guts inside out??

[TheRealAndy]

Has any one had a catastrophic bearing failure where there have been no signs of impending failure?? ie bearing totally collapsing with the grease not all milky and seals and bearing caps still on

The only reason I ask is at Evans we know who's gone fishing early because of the bearing noises. Every one is different.
And when ever I visit Ian down at the tackle shop I reckon at least 2 out of 3 boat trailers have crook bearing in the hubs. The noises that come out of them is quite frightening when you consider they could be going for miles until they get home.
I don't know how some of the trailers got up the ramp the noise is that bad.
But I suppose with all the windows up and the acca dacca pumping out at 567 decibels who hears a bearing in a trailer tearing it's guts inside out??

I always do a 50k run to the servo before long distance hauls. First stop, check hub temps and look for seal leaks as well as giving the rim a shake down to make sure its not to wobbly.

[ozscott]

The Chinese ones I have seen have a poor finish compared to the Australian timkin. It's like pitting. For me with 2 tonns and highway running I actually take the time to knock out the Chinese ones from the new hubs and replace. Cheers

[NAGG]

I've had 1 bearing failure ....... these were the original bearings fitted to the trailer of my first boat. - Probably around 12 months (dust cap only) - no impending sign of failure , just collapse ......... from memory it appeared that there wasn't enough grease used & they were Chinese bearings .
From that point on I went with Timken bearings with bearing buddies - and have not had an issue. Since I bought the second boat I've stuck with the Timken / Bearing buddies combo but I also rebuild the bearings yearly.......It sounds overkill but I probably tow the boat 6000km plus pa (so I like the concept of safer than sorry).

Chris

PS ........ For the $6-10 per set saving between the cheapies Vs Timkens ......... why would you bother ? specially when considering what the bearing does & the pain of any potential failure.

[GBC]

The tolerances with the chinese bearings aren't as tight as the Jap ones. We learned this the hard way after my old man got his camper trailer serviced whilst on an extended trip.
Bearings were replaced (with chinese crap), and less than 100k.m. later, the 10" alko cast steel drum braked hub EXPLODED. The bearing heated up and the hub failed radially outwards from there.
Rang alko for a replacement hub and the service bloke knew what happened before we explained it - 'happens all the time mate'.....
The chinese ones always seem 'sloppier' in the race when pregreasing than the jap ones. Anyone else notice that?

[Steeler]

The price difference makes it a pretty straight foward decision. purchase and fit a reputable brand.

[ozscott]

Nagg - I too run bearing buddies and wouldnt be without them. Some people knock them, but the genuine ones are excellent and keep the bearings in very good condition - much better than without.

Cheers

[wags on the water]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSXAKxTxRro

[winston]

Thanks Wags on the water, very interesting. I changed the original Chinese bearings fitted to my new Dunbier trailer to timken. I did find a great use for the old bearing cups, I ground their outer surfuce down slightly so that they can fit easily inside the hub. They can now be used to tap the new cups into place. Works a treat. I was very interesed to follow the Durahub post by The-easyrider. In the end I stayed with grease and bearing buddies. An annual inspection and regrease in such a pain in the arse but necessary. Cheers Winston.

[captain rednut]

chinese bearings should be banned for sale in australia. i have never trusted them due to the limited life ive seen in many trailers.

[Haji-Baba]

Has anyone tried to get the outer cone out of a chinese hub recently?

The hubs I have seen don't have a slot required to be able punch the outer cones out.

Some are so off centre as to preclude getting any sort of a punch onto the outer cone.

Has anyone broken a cone trying to get it out of a hub.

I did just recently and that is not good.

That was after heating the hub and belting hell out of it. We bought a new hub as i did not trust the old one.

And don't make the mistake of thinking well known brands are not made in China.

Some are top brands and are packaged and noted, Made in China.

My son has an imported tandem trailer with one wheel that was minus the split pin in one of the left hand wheels. The only thing that held the nut on was a slight burr on the stub axel thread.

I rang the importer and he wasn't interested.

So, all you new boat owners check your gear, it is probably new and shiny but needs a good inspection.

Bearing Buddies work, I have them fitted to both my boat trailers both of which get dunked regularly.

The inner seal is the important part, if the stub axel get a bit of rust where the seal seats,
goodbye bearing.

I always carry two set of bearings and seals in my Cruiser for all my Trailers and Van just in case.

Also all the gear to do a complete repair on the road if necessary.

Have fun Haji-Baba

[captain rednut]

i have noticed every Chinese hub Ive seen doesn't have the groves or a ridge to punch the old shell out ???, HOW IS THE AVERAGE PUNTER SUPPOSED TO GET THE SHELLS OUT ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD OR AT ALL?? and Ive also seen one set wear a groove in the outer shells where the rollers run in approximately five trips, NO RUST OR WATER PRESENT. VERY SCARY

[Haji-Baba]

The possibility of buying good second hand Holden or Falcon hubs might be the go.

I am sure I would feel much happier with those older hubs with a good brand of bearing inserted.

And another thing, the studs in the older hubs might also be up to speed, not like the modern ones avaliable that seem to have a habit of snapping off.

Not just boat trailers, but quite a few vans seem to be shedding wheels on a regular basis.

Maybe I am just an old pessimist but a lot of items don't seem to be up to speed lately.

Have Fun Haji-Baba

[perko]

Had the same problem getting the cups out of a rotor off a boat trailer yesterday. Had to weld on the cup to get something to hit on. We took to them with a die grinder and made a couple of our own slots.

[wags on the water]

To remove the outer cone - lay a bead of weld on the inside of the cone, wait for it to cool down and it will fall out. For those without a welder or crap at welding - take it to someone who knows their stuff.

[theoldlegend]

Yep. And they all rust the same.

It's really weird. I use the Chinese myself but use Japanese for everyone else.
I normally have a couple of sets of each of the Chinese and Japanese and for Ford and Holden complete with marine seals sitting on the shelf just in case.

I've never had a problem with Chinese but I don't push my trailers along or abuse them like some.

How do you distinguish between the Chinese writing and the Japanese writing?

TOL

[Fed]

The best thing I've found for getting the cones out is a big yellow screwdriver with a shaft that goes all the way through the handle and the tip ground on a very slight angle but if there's no lip at all then nothing will do it.

[finga]

On each of the bags I wrote ...cheap sh!t and Good sh!t
Actually the Japanese come in individual boxeswith Timken or SKF or NSK written on themand the Chinese ones come in a plastic bag.
Repco have big trade specials every now and again on bearing kits. About $15 or so for Ford or Holden sets. I don't know why but I'll always buy a couple even if there's a few sets on the shelf in the shed.

Would I prefer Chinese in good nick or Japanese that have been exposed to salt-water??

[Cheech]

Has any one had a catastrophic bearing failure where there have been no signs of impending failure?? ie bearing totally collapsing with the grease not all milky and seals and bearing caps still on


Yep. Timiboy. Wags and I had to change the bearings at the ramp. tim running over a gutter on the way to the ramp would not have helped it.

[Steeler]

Yep. Timiboy. Wags and I had to change the bearings at the ramp. tim running over a gutter on the way to the ramp would not have helped it.

Are you sure there was not someone standing on the footpath handing out how to vote Labor tickets when he mounted the gutter;D;D;D

[googarra]

Most trailers, caravans, and anything of any shape that you drag behind your car will now have chinese bearings fitted from new. Rip the damn things out and fit Timkin or similiar quality.

They may look the same but it is not the same quality. The metal quality is not there, nor the exact tolerances required, they may last a while but will fail much earlier than good bearings. Might be OK around the city and to your nearest boat ramp (you city folk) but dont be fooled.

I run 4 tandem trailers and 2 single axel trailers, as part of a small business sideline, and they are all in use constantly and I can assure you I have had my experiences with chinese bearings

By 'in use' I mean one tandem trailer went Tully to Cairns and back twice and Tully to Normanton/Kurumba and back this week alone, about 2300 km I think, all max load, and it is heading out west tomorrow with one ton of electricals on board.

You will not find the 'Made in China' engraved into any of my bearings I can assure you. They are marketed under many names and a trip to supercrap with show you the made in china logo through the plastic bubble wrap.

I have never had to go and recover any trailer that I service and check/grease bearings.

It is like the fleabay chinese knockups of the good old Honda petrol engines. They might look the goods but we all know the outcome. A bit of light use here and there and they will outlast the warranty.

On a brighter note, went to the reef Tuesday night and bagged out on Nannygai, Sweetlip, spangled, sea perches, moses pearch and others. PB large mouth nanny, 8.5 kg gutted and gilled, about 950cm. A few metre long chinaman made any reel other than shimano smoke and strip gears, the deckies will never learn and buy sh*&^t.

Have the rib bruises to prove it but never bother with pics much anymore.

Cheers

[johncar]

I agree with the sentiments regarding the MIC bearings and other products but the reality is that China can and is producing high quality items as well as cheap and nasty just as Japan, The US and Australia or any other country has at different times. It's the old story, stick with what you know works until you know otherwise. But if we don't support the good brands they will cease to exist or they will move their manufacturing to somewhere with cheaper labour and if we don't support some of the new players we will be paying higher costs because the big brands will have a monopoly.
So it would seem that a balance is good. I have used all sorts of bearings over the years and had no failures, made in china or otherwise, but I do look after them, keeping them maintained. A cheaper bearing may not be as forgiving as a high quality where they are possibly neglected or subject to heavy commercial use but should hold up on the average boat trailer running short distances with a regular service.
Personally I would shop for good quality bearings MIC or otherwise for my rig because I think it's worth the extra, but I can't say I have had any worries with bearings made in China
I was surprised to see recently a set of spares I bought perhaps 20 years ago had China stamped on them.
I was talking to a local bearing supplier too just recently about it and he supplies bulk bearings to industry and private customers. The bearings he has supplied for years are a quality Chinese bearing and he said that he has had no complaints about them and I know he wouldn't be stocking them if they were failing or there were any worries with them, but no they are not the Supercheap ones. I would be happy to use the ones he supplies based on that good performance.

[Noelm]

I guess it is just a "saying" that anything made in Chine is shit, but in reality (as mentioned) they can make stuff with equal quality to anyone else, however, the majority of their merchandise is cheap copied rubbish, hence the bad reputation they have aquired, maybe in 10 years time we will be searching high and low for good quality Chinese bearings becuase the ????? ones are crap!

[finga]

Remember when everything made in Japan was crap??

[Noelm]

yep, bloody Jap shit, will the Chinese go the same way?? I think so.

[centrefire]

Ahh..bloody hell! My Great Wall has just turned over 7000km. Should I change the big end bearings this arvo?
Hell, thought I'd get at least 20000km out of them. Damn!

[fishfeeder]

would love to know how many bearings fail because of the installer and not because of the make of bearing !!
How many people recheck there retainer nut after they replace there bearings ?? How many know how to really pack a bearing with grease, How many know that the Retainer nut is never done up tight and its done more by feel as you spin the wheel while you tighten the nut so the bearings beds in properly !!.. These simple things can make a huge difference to the life of your bearings....

I replace all my bearings each year if they need it or not. If I am going on say a trip to the Gold Coast I jack up each wheel and spin it and listen to the bearing and feel for extra slop in the bearings. It doesn't take long and have a good look at your brake pads and discs when you do it.. I also put my hand on each bearing cap when I get to the ramp or at each stop on longer trips, to make sure there not hot. They should be warm but never hot...

Cheers

[ozscott]

Ahh..bloody hell! My Great Wall has just turned over 7000km. Should I change the big end bearings this arvo?
Hell, thought I'd get at least 20000km out of them. Damn!

...dont joke :)

Cheers

[Fed]

would love to know how many bearings fail because of the installer and not because of the make of bearing !!
I think you've hit the nail on the head fishfeeder.
I'd be more concerned with Chinese seals rather than bearings.
I think most boaties would be lucky to tow 1000 Kms a year so there's little chance of wearing the bearings out.

I heard Great Wall bearings are good for 7001 Kms so that would be 7 years for most.

[Eug]

would love to know how many bearings fail because of the installer and not because of the make of bearing !!
How many people recheck there retainer nut after they replace there bearings ?? How many know how to really pack a bearing with grease, How many know that the Retainer nut is never done up tight and its done more by feel as you spin the wheel while you tighten the nut so the bearings beds in properly !!.. These simple things can make a huge difference to the life of your bearings....

I replace all my bearings each year if they need it or not. If I am going on say a trip to the Gold Coast I jack up each wheel and spin it and listen to the bearing and feel for extra slop in the bearings. It doesn't take long and have a good look at your brake pads and discs when you do it.. I also put my hand on each bearing cap when I get to the ramp or at each stop on longer trips, to make sure there not hot. They should be warm but never hot...

Cheers
spot on. i do the same every couple of trips. get into good habits early and they become part of your pre-trip routine.

[tunaticer]

What causes wheel bearing failure?

Let us see how many different causes of bearing failure we can compile.

[Eug]

warm hub + cool water = water ingress = break down of grease = heat = (rinse repeat) = boom

[NAGG]

would love to know how many bearings fail because of the installer and not because of the make of bearing !!
How many people recheck there retainer nut after they replace there bearings ?? How many know how to really pack a bearing with grease, How many know that the Retainer nut is never done up tight and its done more by feel as you spin the wheel while you tighten the nut so the bearings beds in properly !!.. These simple things can make a huge difference to the life of your bearings....

I replace all my bearings each year if they need it or not. If I am going on say a trip to the Gold Coast I jack up each wheel and spin it and listen to the bearing and feel for extra slop in the bearings. It doesn't take long and have a good look at your brake pads and discs when you do it.. I also put my hand on each bearing cap when I get to the ramp or at each stop on longer trips, to make sure there not hot. They should be warm but never hot...

Cheers

Fair point ........
Taking the trailer for a bit of run after a rebuild is a smart move ( check for excess heat ...... too tight) .... jack up and check for play)

Chris

[googarra]

Agree with the Jap theory above.

20, maybe 30, years ago if it was made in Japan it was crap.

Also agree with the others that some real good sh&^%t comes out of China. Probably half of what comes out of China is good quality, maybe 20% is reasonably good, but the rest is what creates the bad name. Without doubt when China gets the quality control and export standards sorted it will be sought after goods. They will be the next superpower of the world with their economy when we all fade into recession, maybe, my theory.

Great Wall vehicles dont have Chinese engines from memory so your bigend bearing isn't rattling yet, isin't it Isuzu motors in some othe jap frame they acquired when sold by Japan. Not knocking them, good car and never heard anyone that owns one complain.

Agree with the others also re installation at factory.

Pull the hub off a new trailer and see how much grease is in there, about a tablespoon from my experiences.

[Charlie]

The inner seal is the important part, if the stub axel get a bit of rust where the seal seats,
goodbye bearing.

Have fun Haji-Baba

Would of been nice if my dealer had remembered to fit the inner seal ! Never had any problems,two years of dunking latter I noticed and fixed it, thankfully they were never let near my outboard.

[centrefire]

You're right Googarra, I can't complain about my Great Wall yet. It suddenly started performining from 5000km, perhaps the bearings ran in..! Low range really is low range.
The engine is a Mitsubishi one made under licence in China. It even has the Mitsi logo on the tappet cover.

[finga]

What causes wheel bearing failure?

Let us see how many different causes of bearing failure we can compile.
Installer error. In my opinion the biggest cause of bearing failure.
Dust cover or bearing buddy falling off allowing dirt and crap to get in.
Too tightly adjusted bearings which goes back to installer stuffing up.
Not using a high sped grease...back to installer stuffing up
Pressure cleaning the back of the hub forcing water in past the seal.

That'll do me.....

[tunaticer]

Nearly every time a bearing dies an early lifespan it is due to some form of installer or maintenance problem.

Dodgy seals are still an installer problem becuase they fitted them or didnt bring the sealing surfaces on the axle or hub up to scratch to effectively let the seal work or not to damage the seal.

Most bearings that fail are also over tight or under tight.

Too much grease can also cause failure in semi eliptical roller bearings too, I regularly have to replace them on conveyor systems because they are connected to automatic grease feed systems that pump fresh grease into them every day. Bearings beside these that do not have the autofeed seem to outlast the overgreased bearings by nearly double. Not usually a problem with wheel hub bearings however.

[outwide1]

I ran the chinese bearings that were fitted factory in my dunbier trailer for 5 years.
I pulled them down for a regrease and repack every year.When i had them replaced and insisted they fit timikin
my mechanic made me aware that i had chinese bearings the whole time.
My boat is 2ton and is towed to tin can bay atleast 6+times a year.
So i dont know what to say regarding this topic.
Mick

[oldboot]

I defiinitely think the core of the problem with chineese stuff is, that they will make you a product to any price....AND....so may people go to china looking for a cheap product and get just what they pay for.

There is some realy good quality stuff comming out of china, just like tiwan, korea and japan before them.

But for me I spend the extra few dollars and buy the brand neme stuff.

as for failures.

Failure to use a water resistant grease......the old greases we used in the past would fail as a lubricant with the smallest amount of water contamination, the new "blue greases' are far far better.

cheers

[johncar]

Yes and besides the bearing quality and correctly packed with the right grease and tensioned not too tight or too loose ( I always like to feel the slightest amount of freeplay in the wheel once all settled in)
The inner seal and the out cap integrity, both need to make a good seal and with many many dunkings I have never seen signs of water being sucked in from normally warm hubs once they are installed correctly. I think if that sort of thing happened it would be due to damaged or poorly installed or incorrect type seals.
I would agree that in many cases of failure that I have seen it has been due to poor installation and often from manufacturer installation. My last trailer from Dunbier had one out of 4 inner seals damaged no doubt at intallation and leaking grease flicking out around the rim being how I noticed it. A Mafairs trailer years ago with all 4 marine seals spinning on the axles which they are not designed to do, I had to replace the lot and no more worries, and I have been in the habit of serving the wheel bearings/seals on any trailer I buy new or old at the first opportunity, I think it is wise and saves major hassles on the side of the road somewhere with no spares or help in sight

But yeah I agree most of the problems on trailers come from improper installation and adjustment and not so much from the components themselves, made in china or otherwise. So it's worth doing a good job on them, regular checks for excessive heat or leakage of grease anytime you pull up anywhere and a yearly service should see you never having a problem on the road.

[PinHead]

you ever see some people at the ramp..they arrive after towing down the road for whoever knows how far..obviously the bearings will be very warm by this time..they very quickly dunk the trailer in the water to launch...warm bearings..cold water. I don't care where the bearings are made..doing this will have a detrimental effect on any bearings. Always good to spend a little while before launching and let the bearings cool a bit...also gives some time to have a chuckle at the shenanigans of those launching and retrieving.

[johncar]

Yeah I like to take my time getting everything ready before backing down the ramp, even after may years of doing this, I don't like to be rushed, best way to make a fatal mistake..and yeah it can't hurt to let the hubs cool a little.

[LittleSkipper]

Hello gentlemen!

As this topic is on Chinese products I thought I'd share my opinion and mention that I just recently bought new Tyres from a Company here in Brisbane called ETyreStore. They also have an online store. These Tyres are of course Made in China. And quite frankly I have been more than impressed with the quality, styling, more than competitive pricing & aggressive A/T tread pattern. Not to mention the great customer service received as opposed to some of the major retailers. In my opinion it's like anything else you own, look after it and it will look after you? Abuse it! and suffer the consequences.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thylacene]

There are several factors to consider, the primary is the load on the bearing, a small tinny will not subject the bearing to the same load as something sitting right a the weight limit per axle. The hardness of the steel and the tolerance are what ensures a uniform load across the contact faces, minimizing wear and heat assuming properly lubricated.

Correct installation is critical to bearing life, to tight and expansion caused by heat will cause wear and premature failure, too loose and the lateral movement results in load being transferred to individual rollers, causing premature wear. Depending on the hardness of the bearing steel this can also result in failure.

Seal installation is just as important, any damage or marking on the sealing face will result in water ingress, the definitive cause of corrosion for salt water boats.

As mentioned allow the hubs to cool when you get to the ramp to avoid a vacuum in the hubs when submerged drawing water into the hub.

If you tow long distance at highway speeds I would spend my money on Timken every day, I am happy to on reputation alone. Chinese brands will establish themselves eventually, but until then I am happy to pay a small premium for peace of mind.

Keep an eye on the running temperature and grab something along these lines http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIGITAL-NON-CONTACT-INFRARED-THERMOMETER-IR-GUN-Fridge-Oven-Meat-Candy-BBQ-/360408956416?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item53ea0c3e00#ht_14892wt_1030

We tow near enough to 2000kg all up, and running temp of the hub is 29C or ambient temp if it is higher. Even at the bottom of Brown Mountain they are only in the low 50's on the braked hubs, 29 on the hubs without discs.

Cheers

Thy