electric /hydraulic brakes

[tassjo]

i have just purchaced a bayliner 192 discovery cuddy cab with hydrostar electric/hydraulic brakes .The boat weight is 1.9 on a twin axle trailer.I have fitted a tekonsha p3 brake contoller to my ba falcon.Has any 1 had experience with the p3 .From what i can find if you hold you foot on the brake pedal it applies the brakes on the trailer eg,sitting at a set of lights.My ? to all is will the brakes be on the trailer while launching & retrieving boat or will the falcon not be up to the task thanks

[Chimo]

Hi tassjo

You are correct, when your brakes are on in the car they are also on on the trailer.

The instructions advise not to sit at lights etc with your foot on the brake but that is what a handbrake is for anyhow.

The ramp issue. You will find that if you are soft on the brake as you reverse down the ramp it is not too much of an issue.

The other thing you probably need to do is go for a drive with the trailer without the boat and adjust the sensitivity on the Tekonsha. I found it amazing how little changes were very beneficial.

Also IMHO if you back it off so you only lock up the (empty) trailer brakes with a hard car stop that should be close to the set up you need. If you want to stop the car and boat on trailer just with the hand operated Tekonsha you will need to crank up the adjustment again. Probably only useful if your mountain driving eg in the Snowy Mtns.

WHen your on the ramp at the right depth to unload / load IMHO turn off the car and use the handbrake and a good chock under the rear wheel. If you launch on your own I use a rope from the driver position to pull the chock as I drive up the ramp so you don't drive the trailer over it or have some scum bag knock it off.

By the way if you can avoid drowning your rotors and trailer brakes when you launch and retrieve you will be amazed how long they remain in working condition. I use a 912 winch and pulley block at the bow hook. Takes a bit longer but my brakes still work!

Have fun.

Cheers
Chimo

[tassjo]

thanks for the info my concern is ,i will be launching with 2 people so if the brakes are on (trailer) i am trying to avoid the slide back in the water

[Chimo]

Put the handbrake on, turn off the car and put it in gear / P and use a chock.

If your car slides back into the water you
1 need to repeat any and all of the above
2 Get a bigger car / 4WD
3 Get a smaller boat

You have not bought a boat that is too heavy for you to legally tow have you?

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[PADDLES]

it can be a bit of a worry with larger boats and smaller vehicles on a slippery ramp. i reckon if you don't dunk the trailer, the boat will try to lift the back of your car when it puts weight onto the back end of the trailer (think of a seesaw with the trailer wheels as the fulcrum). the less weight on your back wheels gives less grip/friction for your handbrake. heavier cars like a 3t landcruiser will feel it less. for lighter cars on a slippery ramp i'd probably recommend dunking it all a bit deeper to get less weight on the back of the trailer. the long and the short of it all is that your falcon is probably up to the job but a medium/large size 4wd will do things a lot easier/safer.

[tassjo]

no, car legally can tow 2300 ,have towed a car trailer with car ,it came in at 2100 car had no problems but was not going up a ramp either

[Chimo]

Paddles is spot on.

Not sure what the weight of BMT with your set up is but a slippery ramp is a totally different playpen when it comes to towing dead weights up hill from a standing start.

If you have not launched and retrieved your new 1.9 ton boat (plus fuel etc etc ) it might be a plan to have a mate with a tow rope close by at least for the first time.

The other thing that I found with towing with a Falcon years ago was that you really needed bloody good grippy tyres before you hit the ramp. I too had a time when the whole BMT and my car was sliding down hill while it was supposed to going the other way. Not a nice feeling. A 4WD quickly became the tow machine.!

Are we having fun yet?

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PS Good move getting the boat first so then you have to get a new 4WD. I pulled that stunt too::)

[tenzing]

I know that it is not exactly what you were asking, but i hve had the p3 for a while and it has a reversing function if you hold one of the buttons in for a few seconds it reduces the brake applied by the trailer and is very useful when backing man empty trailer. As for the traffic lights you get used to getting the handbrake into play , but the p3 is pretty clever and as you have no momentum the brake pressure is minimal, and if you keep the foot on the brakes for 5 secs when still, it defaults to a minimum pressure.
It is a seriously good controller and I cant imagine why more people dont have them.
Cheers
Brendan

[PADDLES]

yeah, chimo's on the money i reckon tass, definitely have another mate on standby first up and a good rubber chock wouldn't be a bad investment either. you'll soon get a feel for whether you're comfortable or not and whether you need to go and get another bigger car.

[tassjo]

thanks for the info picking boat up next week will go to a good boat ramp & see how i go

[Chimo]

Is this from a dealer or private?
Before you take delivery IMHO make sure you sight a RWC for the boat trailer. If it got a hydrastar unit on it someone must have reckoned it ie BMT and gear weighed more than 1999 kgs or were they just being nice and careful?

Its possible that that the brakes are not as they should be if they have been in salt and as a result machining of the rotors or even new ones plus brake pads etc may be needed.

On the other hand I may be just too suspicious / careful as no sales person would do that to you!
Being a GOM, it could be worth checking anyhoo IMHO!.

If your buying private from memory you need a RWC to transfer the regn to your name. If its not smick it could cost over a grand if you need a full 4 wheel trailer brake rebuild.

I suppose you do know the meaning of "BOAT"?

If not time to grasp reality ; "Bring Out Another Thousand"


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[tassjo]

boat is brand new from dealer .they come from the usa with standard hydraulic brakes .the dealer has put the hydrostar system on the boat. in the usa they come with a single axle trailer witch they are lighter than the 1.9

[Chimo]

Thats excellent. All new regn. Hope the Ford does it for you.
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[tassjo]

fingers crossed been without a boat since jan been fishing of land with the kids ,still good fun

[johncar]

Yeah tassjo,
I also have a heavy BMT situation and pushing the limits for my vehicle, 3tonne of BMT on a BT50 twin cab 2 wheel drive. I am very experienced with trailer boats but I have to have my thoughts together when launching and retrieving to try and avoid any dramas.
I have Hydrastar also and try to avoid wetting the rotors, so the trailer sits shallow and I am using a Warn 9.5xp winch to launch and recover the boat.
I would be careful about backing down any slimy looking ramps so just have to be a bit choosy about where I go.
I get organised, back down steadily, and keep a check that all is good. While the foot is on the brake pedal, no worries as the hydrastar is doing it's job but the time of truth is between pulling on the hand brake and leaving in gear or park and making sure that it is all stable before jumping out of the vehicle. If on my own I have chock in hand as I get out ready to slide under the front drivers side wheel but if I have a decky be it my wife or daughter they place the chocks behind the front wheels before I take my foot off the brake.

As previously said, while launching without drowning the trailer there is significant uplift to the rear wheels of the tow vehicle so handbrakes or 2WDs in gear can allow the vehicle to slide backwards, so to avoid this, a couple of decent sized chocks under the front wheels where the ramp is bound to be cleaner and drier as well. I am pretty sure that my vehicle has virtually no weight on the rear wheels at the critical point of balance, so I have to allow for this.

I suppose the answer is just get a bigger vehicle but my BT50 does everything very well and is an excellent tow vehicle and relatively economical to run compared to a couple of LC's I used to own.
The thing is just to be careful, consider all the forces at play and keep everyone around you safe and it should be fine.
If you have traction problems with the ford you can consider applying the max recommended towball weight to your car as well, that will help and decent gripper style tyres.
If you submerge your trailer it can help take the weight off your car while launching/retrieving but you will be spending a lot more time and $ maintaining your trailer and in particular your brake system.
Good luck with it all..

[cej760]

Hi Tassjo

I am currently (until I can afford a 4WD) launching and retrieving a Haines 585R - BMT weighing in at around 2200kg fully geared up using an XR6. I disconnect the trailer reversing down the ramp so that the brakes are not running underwater. I havent had any issues but the ramp I am using is user friendly and not too slippery.

[mal555]

I towed a 700L Signature (2300 kgs) for many years with a standard diff, EL falcon and never had a real problem.
When the vehicle backed down a very steep ramp with any loose gravel, put the auto into 'drive', and idle backwards to stop the front wheels locking and dragging under brakes.