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MitchCalcutt
05-11-2011, 08:18 PM
Some interesting stats from my last trip to Hinchinbrook. Diesel fuel isnít what it appears to be when you do the maths. I have taken into consideration many factors into why my fuel consumption varied so much. Overall weight of load, temperature of travel, landscape, wind direction and speed. Iíll just jive the stats.
First 80lt and second 80lt tanks were filled and the united on the Gold coast. 550km first tank, from 3am to 10am. Second tank, 510km from 10.30am till 4pm, take into account the heat of the day less the 80kg fuel that equates the same. Hereís where things get interesting, next 80lt plus 30lt came into my car via Mobile service station, 415km from 80lt. By now Iím driving flat roads with a tail wind, what the F happened there? Next 80lt came via a BP with a bottle of injector cleaner just in case. 435km, somethingís going wrong here, Iíve never had this much variation ever before.
On the way home I figured my injectors were due for replacement with yet another 410km along with NO power to overtake a caravan on open road. But no, not the case, I fuelled up outside Sarina at an independent, 80lt got me 650km, and a great hamburger with coffee. Had the air on the entire time.
It turns out Diesel aint Diesel. I have experienced this here on the Gold coast before, The best tank Iíve ever had came from the same united I started my trip from only when they first opened, I got almost 720km from one tank with no extra weight in city conditions, they went downhill from there. I do not understand how the servoís can get away with whatever their adding to the fuel. I know from my last trip NOT to fuel up at the larger stations, eg: BP, Caltex and Mobile.
Mitch

marty666
06-11-2011, 08:13 AM
it comes down to what season blend they are using and if one changes before the others you will get veriances like that, there are 12 different season blends that they use over the year so you are right diesel changes all year for climate differences.

tunaticer
06-11-2011, 01:16 PM
Independants buy whatever fuel is the best price at the time, regardless of its origin, unless they have been blocked by a particular seller. I have seen 3 different brand trucks filling a servo in one week not so long ago.

Toddy_again
06-11-2011, 02:52 PM
I have wondered this plenty of times as well.Wondered why one tank has the old Hilux travelling pretty well and another tank full has it labouring.
Frustrating.


Toddy

shy guys
06-11-2011, 03:23 PM
mate i have noticed the same thing i find mobile to have the worst diesel, caltex vortex is the same less kms. i find the best diesel comes from either bp or 7 11 i get the most kms out of them you just feel ripped off

Crazy_Dan
06-11-2011, 05:22 PM
mate i have noticed the same thing i find mobile to have the worst diesel, caltex vortex is the same less kms. i find the best diesel comes from either bp or 7 11 i get the most kms out of them you just feel ripped off

It's funny you mention this, 7/11 has taken over most mobile petrol stations down here in Vic, I tend to use Bp myself and Mobile before the hand over, they are still using Mobile fuel, I just can't trust it myself.

MitchCalcutt
06-11-2011, 06:42 PM
Thanks to all above replys, I'm not so sure about seasional blends though cause the truckers would cause a riot if they got sold winter fuel in summer that caused their trucks to run harder. and i fueled up where the trucks did. I remembered the station i filled up last which gave me the best run was the servo opposit the Awonga dam entry. not the matilda on the other side. I'm currently on 699km and still going.
Mitch

Lancair
06-11-2011, 07:25 PM
I too notice differences in the fuel, but for me Caltex Vortex Diesel consistantly gives me the best performance and km's ? BP the worst. 08' Hilux

nigelr
06-11-2011, 07:27 PM
Forgive me Mitch for stating the bleeding obvious, but truckers fuel cost are tax deductable.
Not that that explains the difference in fuel quality.....:-?

MitchCalcutt
07-11-2011, 05:33 AM
Phoned a friend last night who has been in the industry for a long long time, he informed me that seasional diesel was stoped many years ago and that there isn't a thing that the servo's con add to diesel to ,,,,,,,shal we say cut it. The quality would be governed by the makers of the stuff. Well that F me.

Mitch

dstrans
07-11-2011, 07:02 AM
Phoned a friend last night who has been in the industry for a long long time, he informed me that seasional diesel was stoped many years ago and that there isn't a thing that the servo's con add to diesel to ,,,,,,,shal we say cut it. The quality would be governed by the makers of the stuff. Well that F me.

Mitch

Mitch your mate is right i was in the industry for quite some time and the mix is the same all year round.
I personally think since the sulfer has been removed we have had problems e.g using more, black smoke etc... I have trucks and found that BP has the best.
BP & Caltex are the only ones that make it in Brisbane where the independents such as freedom,Neumann & Matilda(same company now) import it.
Here is something you may not know is we have had 15% ethanol in unleaded for around 15 years but were not told about it so we the public don't know what we are buying.:)

Chimo
07-11-2011, 07:58 AM
Hi dstrans

Have you run with the stuff that Neumans import?

Cheers
Chimo

rowanda
07-11-2011, 08:22 AM
Mitch your mate is right i was in the industry for quite some time and the mix is the same all year round.
I personally think since the sulfer has been removed we have had problems e.g using more, black smoke etc... I have trucks and found that BP has the best.
BP & Caltex are the only ones that make it in Brisbane where the independents such as freedom,Neumann & Matilda(same company now) import it.
Here is something you may not know is we have had 15% ethanol in unleaded for around 15 years but were not told about it so we the public don't know what we are buying.:)

15% ethanol in Unleaded for 15 years...CRAP. I've been in the industry for 15 years and no we haven't. Some of the dodgy independants were using it and tolulene to thin out there fuel.

rabbi
07-11-2011, 08:57 AM
Hehe, I have heard they were thinning down diesel with ethanol and/or petrol. A diesel motor can still run on a low percentage mix of petrol in diesel but will lose some performance and economy.
That would not suprise me at all. funny thing was a few years back diesel was just a by product now its up ther in price.
cheers

Camhawk88
07-11-2011, 09:03 AM
Here is something you may not know is we have had 15% ethanol in unleaded for around 15 years but were not told about it so we the public don't know what we are buying.:)

Id like to see some evidence of that. I reckon it is crap. My wife once filled my old WB with a 10% blend and it would hardly run. If it, or any older cars, had run 15% ethanol you reckon people wouldnt have realised?
I'd say you've been sold an old wives tale.

TheRealAndy
07-11-2011, 10:42 AM
Id like to see some evidence of that. I reckon it is crap. My wife once filled my old WB with a 10% blend and it would hardly run. If it, or any older cars, had run 15% ethanol you reckon people wouldnt have realised?
I'd say you've been sold an old wives tale.

+1

Have a read of this article re where fuel is sourced: http://roadrider.com.au/_webapp_419120/The_Fuel_Truth


There are only seven refineries in Australia producing all of the nationís unleaded fuel; the BP and Caltex refineries in Queensland, Shell and Caltex refineries in NSW, Mobil and Shell in Victoria and BP in West Australia.

You might think that if you filled up in a Mobil service station in Queensland you would get fuel from the Mobil refinery in Victoria. Nope. What you will get is fuel refined in either the BP or Caltex units Queensland but the refinery will add specific contents as per Mobilís requirements.
The same applies with other brands in the other States.

rowanda
07-11-2011, 10:53 AM
+1

Have a read of this article re where fuel is sourced: http://roadrider.com.au/_webapp_419120/The_Fuel_Truth

yep, that's it...the companies just add their own additives to make their own special products...eg Vortex Diesel, Ultimate Unleded and Diesel etc etc so normal unleaded you buy from 1 major is more than likely the same as another....except the idependants, as someone has previously said, they can buy or import it from wherever thay like...I only buy from major brands

pescados
07-11-2011, 03:46 PM
[QUOTE=MitchCalcutt;1325464][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] I do not understand how the servoís can get away with whatever their adding to the fuel. [QUOTE]
Sorry mate but servo's don't add anything.
This is done at the fuel company depot.
I seen Mobil tankers go to BP and vice versa and they would not give their secrets away.

dstrans
07-11-2011, 05:45 PM
I had a independent and was told to water paste the dip stick every day as if you have too much water in the fuel the water drags down the ethanol to the bottom of the tanks which so when the tanks are getting low the chance of getting a stronger mix of ethanol in the fuel is greater and will end up in a shitload of lawsuits (Thats when i changed to a major label)

dstrans
07-11-2011, 05:47 PM
Yeh mate has been ok so far but mainly i use BP (Better discounts with BP Plus cards)

marty666
07-11-2011, 06:04 PM
So all you industry people who say they dont have seasonal fuel i would ask what do you do in the industry???? How do they prevent the waxing point in diesel in winter by adding kero and reducing the cetain rating to compensate, in summer they increase the cetane rating to compensate for the hotter days how could they possibly do this out of one magical blend?????????

captain rednut
07-11-2011, 08:45 PM
they had seasonal fuel at stanthorpe a month ago because some locals experienced difficulty starting the engines on the minus 2deg morning that week. and the local servo said sorry we switched the blend too early. (so i believe it is still available).

rowanda
07-11-2011, 08:47 PM
the only seasonal mix i know of is winter diesel...and it's only used in the snowy moutains and maybe Canberra etc (and only in winter)...in Qld there would be no need to use seasonal blends as you buggers have the weather too good up there!!

sleepygreg
07-11-2011, 10:37 PM
Sorry to state the 'bleeding obvious', but it seems that those 'in the industry' seem to be singing off different song sheets (and i don't mean they arent stating what they believe is right). What chance do the average punters have to get the truth?

INDULGENCE
08-11-2011, 09:28 AM
Having just driven down the Bruce Hwy from Lucinda to Brisbane and then down the Pacific to home the fuel variance is as great as you state Mitch.
What is truck diesel and what is the difference with car diesel?
Quiet a few truck stops in both states have bowsers with a note saying its truck diesel not suitable for cars or 4wds.Its even cheaper at some.
The problem most of us are faced with its usually at the bowser that easiest to get to with the boat trailer behind.
Wally

Noelm
08-11-2011, 09:59 AM
I think it is a simple fact that the "truck" pumps are vry high flow, most cars would see you with a face full of diesel if you used them, kind of doubt it has anything different to car/4X4 diesel. I agree though that different fuel produces different performance and distance, how and why is anyone's guess.

Chimo
08-11-2011, 11:35 AM
The study http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/publications/pubs/heavy-duty-engine-emissions.pdf tested five different diesel fuels so they do appear to be out there!

Much of the stuff at retail outlets has up to 5% bio in it too. The stuff I use most of the time is ULS depot fuel imported from Singapore which also seems to give a less smelly tail pipe at idle too. Go figure!

MitchCalcutt
08-11-2011, 08:25 PM
Wow, I didn't check this post for one day only to find ww3 has broken out. Sorry if I've caused any grief, only one thing left to say, I do believe I've learned something. I believe seasonal diesel is still being used but only in the sub Celsius regions, and there are as many facts out there to accommodate every ones opinion. I have read every reply and put great thought into them, thanks to every one for replying. I know of three depots that have regularly supplied good diesel and will do the same trip late autumn / early winter and will post the exact consumption per LT. It will be interesting to compare hot to cool running rates.
Mitch

marty666
09-11-2011, 06:20 AM
At the end of the day find a servo that has a consistant fuel supply normally a high turn over site would be better and stick with them, rather than driving down the street to find it .0001 cent cheaper

fisher28
11-11-2011, 07:33 AM
when i get diesel in drums for my boat,if i go to matilda i can get 21 litres into a yellow 20 litre drum no worries,yep when i go to nuemann/bp,i can only get 19 litres before all the foam starts coming out.i always thought it must be different pump designs or detergent levels.i must get around to weighing a couple of drums and see how that goes!!

murf
11-11-2011, 08:13 AM
Biodiesel 5.0% volume by volume (max) 1-Mar-09 allowed in diesel

http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/standards/diesel/index.html#op

I prefer BD100 ;)

nearly didn't make it home on my last 2000km trip to Yeppoon on Bio (leaking inlet manifold flange gasket) thought I was going to have to put smelly dinosaur diesel in it, recon I had 1/2 a liter left :)

and yes different fuels/suppliers have diff qualities that affect performance in a big way, trying to find a consistent supply is the difficult thing

many years ago the tanker drivers used to put the dye in their tankers depending on what fuel station they were delivering too, all came out of the same tank, I have no idea what is the norm now

cheers Murf

Chimo
11-11-2011, 08:19 AM
Neumann owns Matilda. I think you will find its the actual pump / speed that is the issue. Some Neumanns outlets (depots) sell Singapore direct imported diesel. Not sure if they use the same diesel at the servos but its a possibility. Anyone know for sure?

"Neumann Petroleum originally started trading as Gold Coast Oil and AMOCO Australia Pty Ltd in 1964 when the company was appointed the agent for AMOCO at Tweed Heads. Gold Coast Oilsí original trading area was from Coffs Harbour to the Gold Coast. In the 1980ís they became BP distributors and in 1997 the company began trading in Brisbane. The first Neumann branded service station in Acacia Ridge Brisbane began in September 1997, with Neumann Petroleum acquiring Matilda Fuels in December 2007."

dstrans
11-11-2011, 01:10 PM
Chimo I know for a fact it is the same fuel and yes it comes from Singapore (so Neumann,Matilda & freedom are the same fuel as Freedom went halves with there Terminal gate in Brissy going back in 2001 i think).

Chimo
11-11-2011, 01:51 PM
It does however seem that only a few of these carry the ULS version and others carry the straight diesel and yet at others there is straight diesel inc some Biodiesel (5%) as well.

I'm sticking with the ULS version.

Then there are the brews at the "majors"