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robsue
07-10-2011, 10:33 PM
did anyone else see the fishing report on channel 9 news, with two young children pictured, on a boat
NEITHER had a lifejacket on, and im guessing the oldest would have been 4yo
firstly the parent is at fault, and should be fined, and secondly channel 9 should know the boating laws and should not have broadcast that segmant
wonder whether the authorities will look into it further.....................

cheers

goat boy
08-10-2011, 11:12 AM
I didn't see the segment but it is possible, under QLD maritime safety laws that the scenario you mentioned could have been legally correct...
http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/~/media/f63a0ed9-9205-4539-bf66-8173b5f31969/pdf_factsheet_under_12.pdf

robsue
08-10-2011, 11:47 AM
Goatboy.......while underway.........legally im sure the authorities classify it as on the water, ie, not at boatramp
i have been checked by police with my grandson aboard, drifting for whiting and they said good to see obeying the law in regard to grandson wearing a lifejacket, and i might add my boat is 4-8 metre, not under 4-8 metre
ps....the boat concerned would have been under 4-8 metres

Steeler
08-10-2011, 11:58 AM
I don't get it one minute your having a dig at the skip and then having a crack at the station for showing the skip potentially doing the wrong thing.

Richo1
08-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Rule 3 "General Definitions"


(i) The word underway means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the
shore, or aground.

Lighten up abit, good on him for getting his kids outdoors and having some fun.

robsue
08-10-2011, 02:04 PM
yes, i just checked at anchor, you dont have to wear a lifejacket...i was wrong
personally, no child will be alowed on my boat without wearing a lifejacket, their lives are too important

jtpython
08-10-2011, 04:54 PM
Compulsory wearing of life jackets


It is compulsory to wear a life jacket:

when crossing a coastal bar in an open boat that is less than 4.8 m in length
if you are under the age of 12 in an open boat that is less than 4.8 m in length, while it is under way.

Definitions

Under 12 – from 12 months and up to, but not including, 12 years of age.

It is not recommended that babies under 12 months travel on boats unless necessary. When they do, they must be held securely by a parent or other responsible adult.
Open vessel – a boat that does not have a permanent rigid deckhouse, cabin or other enclosed space suitable for a person to occupy.

Underway – a boat not at anchor, made fast to the shore or aground. A boat does not have to be moving to be underway.

Coastal bar – a shallow area where sand is deposited across a river mouth, lake, estuary or harbour entrance.

Designated coastal bars – Currumbin Bar, Tallebudgera Bar, Jumpinpin Bar, South Passage Bar, Caloundra Bar, Maroochy Bar, Noosa Bar and Wide Bay Bar.

I have 6 kids ......................They know at where all the life jackets are in boat but i will not make them where one while just travelling around if they don t need to . Enuff do gooders treating everyone like babies as it is.
J

Horse
08-10-2011, 05:13 PM
I have to admit I am quite suprised at the number of people who think we should all go way beyond what is legislated in relation to kids being in lifejackets. I wonder what their attitude is when the same kids want to head down to the skate park and have some fun. More kids die from head injuries from bikes and skateboards than the unfortunate few each decade who drown while boating.
I have no issue with people who want to cover their bases but we have to be careful not to push our opinions too hard on others

Gon Fishun
08-10-2011, 11:43 PM
I have 6 Grand children under the age of 12. There is no way I'am going back to shore and telling their parents , aw gee they sunk like a stone. Get real. Do they have little markers on them were they fell in, or is it the blood from the slices in their head from the prop tell you where they are.
In addition , I won't say where I saw it, young woman driving 22ft cruiser with 3 under 12's on the bow no life jackets and 3 in the back , no life jackets. If any fell off the front it is impossible to stop before the prop or props get em. Think about it. Picture 1 of your kids after a skeg or prop has chopped their brains out.

wamjam
09-10-2011, 09:02 AM
Small kids sink like a rock. I won't risk them not wearing a pfd. I won't even let my 5 year old in a pool without his swim vest on unless I'm in there with him.

Scott

tunaticer
09-10-2011, 12:33 PM
My grandkids all wear a jacket in my boat (all under 12) mainly because i am not 100% positive they would be safe in water over their heads.
They all love to swim and are quite good at it, but in a panic situation I am not sure they will stay afloat.
I know 100% that I will not panic, but I may not be in a position to help them fast enough if I am injured.

I think the law is good being disgressional to an extent, there are people who are over 12 and well capable to be no drama when it turns to shit, a lot of others though are not.

PaulMark
09-10-2011, 12:52 PM
Its good to see some of you blokes value yours and others kids.You blokes who don't, want to wake up to yourself.Boat moving forward,current maybe,plus they're inherent sinkability means a disastrous consequence.Things happen around kids very quickly,its obvious some of you blokes who would call yourself good parents were at the back of the queue when commonsense was handed out.
Paulo

Richo1
09-10-2011, 03:38 PM
Ah yes good to see the name calling has started :P So easy to jump in on the worst case senarios as examples isn't it. Was not going to post on this topic anymore as it just keeps on going on and on... But could not help it :-?

Flat calm day, no traffic, close to shore, anchored, no wind, no current, fine & sunny, kids are having fun, dad is being a good dad and has taught his 1 & 3 year olds how to behave in a boat and is being resposible for them. Life jackets are off but close by. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with that senario... But hang on here come the fun police "quick arrest him, fine him, take the kids off him, he is a complete fool, what if a cyclone came, they fell over board and got hit by the not moving propellor, got run over and then had to swim and couldn't etc, etc, etc
Kids can be unpredictable but as a good parent we look out for that, just the same as I look out for unpredictable boaties. :o

I don't believe their are many people that would disagree with the lifejacket laws for kids, just disagree with "the number of people who think we should all go way beyond what is legislated in relation to kids being in lifejackets." I do risk assessments every day at work, and do they same at home when i'm with the kids in a boat or not (just don't document the kids ones otherwise i would never leave the house and nor would they).

I case your wondering I have 2 correctly fitting lifejackets for my 2 kids and make them wear them while underway....and when ever I feel it is necessary, but not all the time.

Cheers Richo:)

jtpython
12-10-2011, 08:26 PM
Its good to see some of you blokes value yours and others kids.You blokes who don't, want to wake up to yourself.Boat moving forward,current maybe,plus they're inherent sinkability means a disastrous consequence.Things happen around kids very quickly,its obvious some of you blokes who would call yourself good parents were at the back of the queue when commonsense was handed out.
Paulo
Not a very good comment ............. So extreme and what gives you the right to call me a bad father . Comments from people like you should be kept to yourself. Mty kids have grow up on the water probily more then you or yours have . Do i Know no so how about personal comments like calling a person a bad parent to yourself. I live for my kids and after having cancer twice now which makes me even more protective
So go ahead tell me again

grahams
12-10-2011, 09:14 PM
when someone falls out of my boat I know my daughter could run the boat, fish me out and do some CPR.
Generalities are BS. Its about respect,experience and knowledge. I'm with JT. I have made a number of my crew stay in the cabin or put on a lifejacket. Most were 30yr old males.....after about 10 beers....

fisho8
12-10-2011, 09:25 PM
Bit of a passionate debate this one by the looks but everyone interperates the rules and adheres to them in their own way. How someone wants to raise their kids is their business and if there is an accident where the rules were not followed then it is that person who will have to live with it for the rest of their life which is punsihment enough. These rules are put in place to help save lives but ultimately it is that individuals right to choose weather they stick to them or how we want to interperate them as we all interperate things in our own way and act accordingly. As far as my rig is concerned saftey is paramount no matter weather my kids are on it or my mates and I will work within the rules set by the authorities. As the rego stickers say "Your the skipper your responsible". There is no point in condeming someone because they do things different to the way you do things it is their choice. The last thing I will say on this topic is there would be no worse a feeling then coming home and telling my wife our son or daughter drowned because I did not have a jacket on him when we were out on the boat that thought sends chill up my spine that is for sure.

Horse
12-10-2011, 09:35 PM
Its good to see some of you blokes value yours and others kids.You blokes who don't, want to wake up to yourself.Boat moving forward,current maybe,plus they're inherent sinkability means a disastrous consequence.Things happen around kids very quickly,its obvious some of you blokes who would call yourself good parents were at the back of the queue when commonsense was handed out.
Paulo

Have a good hard look at what you have said here. Did your parents keep you in a lifejacket at all times on the water until you were 12? If not have you told them how your bad they were putting you at risk or as I suspect you did not grow up on the water as many of us have. Respect for the danger is one thing but fear of the environment in not what we want to instill in our next generation

Triple
12-10-2011, 09:37 PM
http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/7/9/7/6/4/a2895514-117-homer-eating-popcorn-small-c7873.jpg?d=1259172341

PaulMark
13-10-2011, 11:18 AM
Not a very good comment ............. So extreme and what gives you the right to call me a bad father . Comments from people like you should be kept to yourself. Mty kids have grow up on the water probily more then you or yours have . Do i Know no so how about personal comments like calling a person a bad parent to yourself. I live for my kids and after having cancer twice now which makes me even more protective
So go ahead tell me again

Obvoiusly hit a nerve here,you're in an undefendable position JT.If your boat is bigger than 4.8 then you're fine,in yours and the laws eyes.If smaller than 4.8 then its illegal not to have the kids under 12 wearing a pfd when you're moving.You're response is puzzling in the least.
Paulo

PaulMark
13-10-2011, 11:25 AM
Have a good hard look at what you have said here. Did your parents keep you in a lifejacket at all times on the water until you were 12? If not have you told them how your bad they were putting you at risk or as I suspect you did not grow up on the water as many of us have. Respect for the danger is one thing but fear of the environment in not what we want to instill in our next generation

You're the skipper,you're responsible! Enough said here I think.
Paulo

jimbamb
13-10-2011, 03:16 PM
Seems to me the reason there are so many laws is the fact everyone seems to think it wont happen to" me"
Sadly sometimes we need to be told it can and does happen to people quite often..
Hence the laws are bought in..
Jim

jtpython
13-10-2011, 03:36 PM
Obvoiusly hit a nerve here,you're in an undefendable position JT.If your boat is bigger than 4.8 then you're fine,in yours and the laws eyes.If smaller than 4.8 then its illegal not to have the kids under 12 wearing a pfd when you're moving.You're response is puzzling in the least.
Paulo
My boat is bigger then that is why i comment in the first post i quoted the rules what you said was irrisponsible telling me that i am if i don t put my kids in a lifejacket


Its good to see some of you blokes value yours and others kids.You blokes who don't, want to wake up to yourself.Boat moving forward,current maybe,plus they're inherent sinkability means a disastrous consequence.Things happen around kids very quickly,its obvious some of you blokes who would call yourself good parents were at the back of the queue when commonsense was handed out.
Paulo

MEG-A-BITE
13-10-2011, 04:02 PM
I have two lads aged 4-6 and they both wear a PFd when on the boat, regardless of the conditions. If we fishing or just anchored up. They both good swimmers but still don’t take any chances. You just never know, accidents happen very quickly and rather be safe than sorry.

Raesen
13-10-2011, 04:13 PM
I have been reading this thread with interest and my thoughts for what it is worth....

If at anchor people on board under 12 may remove their jackets. COMPLY with the law....
If at travel put the jacket on COMPLY with the law.

Both much the same a driving my car... Sign says 60K - I do sixty - COMPLY withthe law. Sign says 100K - I do 100 - Comply with the law... Unless of course it is flogging down with rain then I reduce my speed to a suitable safe speed for the conditions.

Same applies in my boat. Comply with the law but lets say me and my wife and 18 year old son in the boat and we aer travelling on the water and it is a bit choppy/rough... We all put the gear. Not required by law but in my boat is required due to the conditions.

I really don't see any problem at all.. When you drive your car you COMPLY with the law as a minimum and drive to the conditions from a personal well being state...... when you drive or use your boat same thing - COMPLY with the law as a minimum and drive or use the boat to the conditions at the time.

In other words you up the ante to the safeguards you apply over and above the legal requirement to suit the conditions at the time and at the place according to your personal needs.

Cheers
Pete

Horse
13-10-2011, 05:54 PM
It seems pretty simple to me. Comply with the legislation and use common sense in other situations. I often insist on children wearing jackets at all times if conditions suggest it appropriate or if they are novice boaties. I just get a bit sick and tired of people who want to impose their cotton wool standards on others. I wonder if they let their children climb trees, ride bikes or play footy. These pursuits kill and maim a lot of kids each year.

Tailortaker
13-10-2011, 06:09 PM
I have my son wear a life jacket at all times but that's in a 3.9m tinnie, That's my call but if others don't have their kids wear one while at anchor so be it. It's their choice and they are within their legal AND moral right so they should not be criticized for it. I'm waiting for my slightly bigger boat to arrive and when i get it he wont be wearing a pfd when at anchor as i will feel that he is safe enough not to. That wont make me a bad parent as far as I'm concerned !
Cheers, TT

grahams
13-10-2011, 07:04 PM
I comply with the law regarding lifejackets, but there is a big difference between being legal and safe.

Here's some things I think are irresponsible boating;

1.Leaving your motor in gear revving the crap out of it to get your boat on your trailer at the ramp while there are people holding onto their boats in the water right beside you. Where do you think the water is coming from to go thru your prop???
2. Taking open tinnies around 4.3m 50 miles offshore.
3. Letting anyone sit on the bow while travelling at speed
4. Taking your "big offshore rig" beyond radio contact range
5. Going offshore with only 1 battery
6. Assuming you know boating after getting your licence
7. Travelling at high speed at night
8. Not having 75% safety margin on your fuel supply
9. Not regularly checking your bilge pump


Last time I checked all these things are legal...but irresponsible.

Raesen
13-10-2011, 07:47 PM
I comply with the law regarding lifejackets, but there is a big difference between being legal and safe.

Here's some things I think are irresponsible boating;

1.Leaving your motor in gear revving the crap out of it to get your boat on your trailer at the ramp while there are people holding onto their boats in the water right beside you. Where do you think the water is coming from to go thru your prop???
2. Taking open tinnies around 4.3m 50 miles offshore.
3. Letting anyone sit on the bow while travelling at speed
4. Taking your "big offshore rig" beyond radio contact range
5. Going offshore with only 1 battery
6. Assuming you know boating after getting your licence
7. Travelling at high speed at night
8. Not having 75% safety margin on your fuel supply
9. Not regularly checking your bilge pump


Last time I checked all these things are legal...but irresponsible.

This is exactly what I was referring to in my post..... If some one revs the crap out of motor to load onto trailer.... travelling at high speeds at night...... going off shore with one battery...... taking tinnies off shore 50 miles ??? safety margin 75% fuel ????????? - not necessarily smart.. I ionly fish river systems so fuel not a problem. I hear what your saying but it is what I was alluding to.........
Cheers
Pete