Leisure Marine, Capalaba???

[CHEE-FEE]

Looks to me as though Leisure Marine at Capalaba is no more. I noticed things drastically thinning out down there the other day and it appears the hammer has fallen, so to speak. What's the go; does anyone know more???

Cheers,
NICK.

[propdinger]

i was in there a few days ago and yes it seemed thinner in stock but it may just be hellping them to stay alfoat by buying the stock when needed. i was there when a guy ordered a heap of exxy stuff and they were getting it in and no word about closing the door. might just be the way the are trying to survive.

[BGG]

Not surprising the way they treat customers. I was in the market for a brand new rig last year. Went and spoke to the salesman for about half an hour and followed up with an email detailing what I wanted included in the package. Chased them up for a price but never even got a response after they knew I was seeking more than one quote. Ended up buying from a Gold Coast dealer.

[Mike Delisser]

My experience was the opposite to yours BGG but that happens everywhere. I've only ever baught chandlery off them and I was very happy with their service, esp this old guy I always seek out (don't know his name). They are cheaper than my locals and they even stayed open an extra 1/2 hour for me one night so I could drive over from the Nth side and grab $30 worth of parts I needed for a trip the next day. Anyway I hope they're just making some sort of changes there or something like that.
Cheers

[BGG]

Mike, I used to use the chandlery store without complaint but the bad experience with the other side really put me off. And I had previously purchased a boat there.

[charleville]

I sincerely hope that they have not gone out of business. I don't know about their performance as a boat seller but they had (have?) a well sized chandlery shop and I have never thought that their prices have been too bad. There is a certain likable quirkiness about their staff but, whilst I was unhappy many years ago in dealing with a very young staff member, the older guys have always been good for me.

I also remember their staging an awesome free seminar night a few years ago hosted by Nugget and featuring plenty of good speakers, together with a very good barbecue. Sure it was a selling awareness type event but here was no overt sales pitch made to mar the evening. It was very well done and would have cost them a small mint.


Nah! Give them a break and support their business. Overall, their chandlery business is good and we don't need any more of these guys to go out of business. Who is left around that area after them? Bias boating at Tingalpa ( a good store) and Whitworths at the Gabba (a good store) and one or two around Wynnum and Manly. It would be best to not lose any more of these guys.


Sure, BCF is on the scene but I cannot go into a BCF store and buy a single stainless steel screw as I can with mainstream chandleries like Leisure Marine.


I would like to suggest that if you are about to buy some chandlery and have been intending to go to a chain operation like BCF, maybe it makes sense to give Leisure Marine the business to help their business viability.


I must add that I have absolutely nothing to do with Leisure Marine. other than being a very occasional customer who drools over their well made Stabicraft every time that I go in there but then rationalises the high price of those boats against something like the well presented, locally made, quieter Cruise Craft and wonders how may of the Stabicraft actually go out of the door.


.

[AnthonyL]

I went there when looking to buy a boat years ago and was treated like crap so thought if that was the treatment then what would happen if I had a problem down the line.

Have been to the Chandlery many times and it has never been a pleasant experience. My wife wanted to buy a tube to pull the kids along from there one day and I wouldnt go in so she did.

An old guy served her and bitched that she disturbed his lunch and got up with his kabab chewing it while standing over her, he was rude and dropped kabab on her arm lol so she was disgusted and we drove to bcf to buy the towing tube she wanted.

[craigie]

Have on good authority....."........Gone !!!!

[antg2378]

withdrawn.......

[propdinger]

yup dad just drove past and there GONE

[charleville]

That is very sad. Very sad indeed! :(



.

[Kero]

yup dad just drove past and there GONE

Are you sure?
I was in there only last week... there website is still up and running!

[Peter4]

Yep - they are gone alright.

Yard is cleared out, locks on the gate, office closed, shop closed and not a soul to be seen...

Just had a look 5 minutes ago.

[CHEE-FEE]

Yes they are gone indeed. From what I've heard, receivers in, gates locked, everything gone. If anyone has any deposits for anything beingheld there, I would get chasing hard and quickly for its return; forget what you were buying, as you'll never see it. But you'd want your deposit back; fat chance if the big wigs have stashed it though. After all, they would have known this was coming a while ago. Never know; there might be a big auction somewhere for all their stuff...

Cheers,
NICK

[johncar]

It's very tragic to see this happening, What is going on, why are people being driven out of boating besides the govt doing their best make it unafordable to own one and letting the fishery continue to be destroyed by dragging nets all over the bay and estuaries??
I wasn't too happy about a boat purchase from them a few years back so I would never be a return customer because of that experience, but the chandlery seemed to be decent the odd time I went there.

[wirlybird]

i guess the declining boat market bit a little to hard. i must say it seems a bit strange the boat place down the road from them seemed to be filling up is it the same company ?

[fandtm666]

keep an eye on greys then , the last one i saw was one
near the international terminal in brissy that went under
and all stock sold of on greys

[antg2378]

I have somehow been caught up in this debacle, I had a boat there on consignment that was sold last weekend. I spoke to the new owner, he has paid them but I haven't been paid. I went to pick up the cheque this morning but guess what..........was met by administrators. I don't hold much hope of seeing my money but I have everything crossed.

[fisho8]

Sad to see another dealer go under all I can say is if that you treat your customers or prospective customers like shit this is what eventually happens.

[Steeler]

I have somehow been caught up in this debacle, I had a boat there on consignment that was sold last weekend. I spoke to the new owner, he has paid them but I haven't been paid. I went to pick up the cheque this morning but guess what..........was met by administrators. I don't hold much hope of seeing my money but I have everything crossed.


You seriously need to seek out some real good advice like right now, not a moment to waste.

[antg2378]

You seriously need to seek out some real good advice like right now, not a moment to waste.

I don't know where to start mate. I spoke to the administrators and he is going to ring me next week. I probably can't say too much due to all the legalities of it. I really can't afford to pay a solicitor I have rang legal aid and have gotten on to someone local for free legal advice.

[Stuart]

Thats it mate, if you treat most of your customers like crap then expect to go under. I still cant belive that most shops I deal with or at least did still have terriable customer service. I have never dealt with this mob although I did ask for a price on a fair bit of gear and an outboard, never got back to me. I vote with my money now, you dick me around once then you can shove it up ya yin yang. Shops that have outstanding customer service are the ones that are experiancing growth, its not real hard but some just cant grasp the very basics of good managment.

Stu

[CHEE-FEE]

I, too, have been dicked around a bit there. I have also had the joy of the salesman bitching that I had interrupted his lunch and he continued to shovel food down his guts whilst serving me. And that was the guy who originally ran Cleveland Boting Service who, according to local legend (and that's all...), made ripping people off and absolute art form. Mind you, you could get most of your emergency boating "nick nacks" at odd times in their chandlery shop. I once had the joy of having a boat there on consignment. Never again; what a lie fest!! They were going to do everything for me and the boat would sell within a week no problems mate mate mate... They put too much money on it and it just sat, then they wouldn't return phone calls, the salesman has just stepped out, had someone on it just before rubharb, rubharb, rubharb. The day I went to get it, the very salesman who was my best mate a mere month beforehand scarpered and hid in the toilet as soon as I set foot in the gate. Shed no tears for this lot....

Cheers,
NICK.

[FishHunter]

I, too, have been dicked around a bit there. I have also had the joy of the salesman bitching that I had interrupted his lunch and he continued to shovel food down his guts whilst serving me. And that was the guy who originally ran Cleveland Boting Service who, according to local legend (and that's all...), made ripping people off and absolute art form. Mind you, you could get most of your emergency boating "nick nacks" at odd times in their chandlery shop. I once had the joy of having a boat there on consignment. Never again; what a lie fest!! They were going to do everything for me and the boat would sell within a week no problems mate mate mate... They put too much money on it and it just sat, then they wouldn't return phone calls, the salesman has just stepped out, had someone on it just before rubharb, rubharb, rubharb. The day I went to get it, the very salesman who was my best mate a mere month beforehand scarpered and hid in the toilet as soon as I set foot in the gate. Shed no tears for this lot....

Cheers,
NICK.

That sounds remarkably like most of the boat dealers I have dealt with and a lot of car dealers.

[Steeler]

I know this might sound like a long shot but what if ownership transfer has not been paid yet, that would still make it legally yours to reclaim. I know that depends on knowing who it was sold to and tough on the purchaser.

[AnthonyL]

I have somehow been caught up in this debacle, I had a boat there on consignment that was sold last weekend. I spoke to the new owner, he has paid them but I haven't been paid. I went to pick up the cheque this morning but guess what..........was met by administrators. I don't hold much hope of seeing my money but I have everything crossed.

Sorry to hear you have been ripped off, I found that the administrators arent any help at all cos all they care is getting their money back.

When Mr T's went bust next door I lost nearly $2000 on an order for a sounder. I didnt get a cent back from the receivers and they didnt return calls and emails.

[antg2378]

No offence but nearly $2000 is a little different to nearly $15000. I could try dept' of trans' but I think the rego would already have been transferred as the boat is now in townsville. I have already spoken to the purchaser and his cheque has been cleared which means Leisure Marine have my money.

[TimiBoy]

I don't know where to start mate. I spoke to the administrators and he is going to ring me next week. I probably can't say too much due to all the legalities of it. I really can't afford to pay a solicitor I have rang legal aid and have gotten on to someone local for free legal advice.

If his initials are BW, he's as much use as a fart in a strong breeze. BW is a local I have dealt with - hopeless. There are Lawyers, and there are Lawyers...

Cheers,

Tim

[Steeler]

Perhaps part of the deal included the dealership doing the ownership transfer in which case that may not have happened in the last week.

[AnthonyL]

No offence but nearly $2000 is a little different to nearly $15000. I could try dept' of trans' but I think the rego would already have been transferred as the boat is now in townsville. I have already spoken to the purchaser and his cheque has been cleared which means Leisure Marine have my money.

Yeah I know but dont think that the admin are working with your interests. As most creditors know the administrator look after no1 then if there is anything left you might get a portion back. In my case the portiom I got from $2000 was zero so I hope you do better than that.

Did you already sign the transfer papers over?

[antg2378]

yep have unfortunately signed transfer papers.

[Fido]

This is quite sad. I must say that I have always found the owner and staff to be friendly and helpful. They did everything possible to survive. This all points to the current economic climate and a shift in how people are spending their leisure money. I also believe the falling over in the marine industry points to a large extent to the fact that many people consider boating and saltwater fishing too complicated so instead have opted out and gone camping or inland fishing. As well many people are simply importing boats into Australia just as eg Hyundai and others do for cars. It will not change. That's how it is. You either get on the bandwagon as Telwater or you fade out of existance. We have a situation where our labour costs are considered too high to people paying for that cost but not the people charging the lab cost. The result ,so in order to satisfy the demand for cheaper goods we are simply importing and shutting down our own industries in the process. In the mines they are looking at remote controlled dump trucks to cut lab costs.

For comment.

[TopBhoy]

Perhaps part of the deal included the dealership doing the ownership transfer in which case that may not have happened in the last week.

However this plans out, it appears that some poor bugger is going to lose out on a considerable sum!!

[FisHard]

Speaking from personal experience (lost $60k last year) receivers are a bunch of low life scum bags that will do ANYTHING to screw you if it means more $ for them. Any verbal agreements WILL be broken, and you'll find them very shy of putting anything in writing.
Good luck :(

[AnthonyL]

Speaking from personal experience (lost $60k last year) receivers are a bunch of low life scum bags that will do ANYTHING to screw you if it means more $ for them. Any verbal agreements WILL be broken, and you'll find them very shy of putting anything in writing.
Good luck :(

Thats what I was trying to say, but you didnt filter it lol.

[Steeler]

They could not have been to good or helpful, the boat was on consignment not floor plan stock that owed them money, pretty poor morally to not forward the funds in the first instance.

[antg2378]

I have no issue with the guy that bought my boat from them he has done nothing wrong. I do however have issues with leisure marine. I trusted them with my boat which they sold from a lead from me. The boat was not theirs nor was the money they received for it, they have basically stolen a substantial sum of money from me.

[fisho8]

Jeez mate that is bad I just hope you get what you are entitled to. Simple fact is you sign a consignment agreement with them which is a legal document in which I do not understand why they would hold your money from the sale. All they would be entitled to is the commission they have charged you under the consignment agreement. Did they give you a copy of the agreement when you put your boat in there at all. If they did they have no wright to withold those funds.

[fairpractice]

This late but unlamented dealership was, I think, the last Honda distributor in town.
I got more help re. Honda outboards from the Caloundra distributor than them, also Northside are happy to service Hondas
My 2c worth. cheers john

[antg2378]

Jeez mate that is bad I just hope you get what you are entitled to. Simple fact is you sign a consignment agreement with them which is a legal document in which I do not understand why they would hold your money from the sale. All they would be entitled to is the commission they have charged you under the consignment agreement. Did they give you a copy of the agreement when you put your boat in there at all. If they did they have no wright to withold those funds.

Yeah mate I do have a copy of the consignment agreement which the administrators also took a photocopy of.

[marto78]

Hey antg I would be heading down to the local police station and making a report of stolen money/boat whatever, but get the boys in blue on the case that usually makes people think twice about taking someone elses money when they might be charged for theft or fraud.

[TimiBoy]

Jeez mate that is bad I just hope you get what you are entitled to. Simple fact is you sign a consignment agreement with them which is a legal document in which I do not understand why they would hold your money from the sale. All they would be entitled to is the commission they have charged you under the consignment agreement. Did they give you a copy of the agreement when you put your boat in there at all. If they did they have no wright to withold those funds.

I would imagine that this would have to end in Court, if the Receivers view the ex owner as an unsecured Creditor. I very much doubt whether the Coppers would view it as a Criminal case. Possibly even a case to take the Director/s to Court as well because of the delay in transfer. Mind you, Legal costs will probably outweigh the benefit, so the money is probably gone. I hate to say that, but it's just how it is. Having been screwed over myself for close to $400K, believe me, the Truth is usually unpleasant.

Tim

[ozscott]

Hey antg I would be heading down to the local police station and making a report of stolen money/boat whatever, but get the boys in blue on the case that usually makes people think twice about taking someone elses money when they might be charged for theft or fraud.

Mardo -'mate the police won't be interested. They will say it's a civil matter and they won't know what the answer to the riddle is. Also receivers and lawyers dont generally worry about what the police think or do.

You have done the right thing by getting some legal advice. Do he explain general v secured creditors and how to prove your claim? Have the rceivers told you likely payout in cents per dollar?

[screaming reels]

G'Day angt2378, Mate i am really sorry to hear the situation you are in, but mate my exprience says to words secured or unsecured creditor that is the wording you will want to find on your contract or along those lines, mate i have been down this path and unless you are a secured creditor your money is basically gone. Don't through more good money after bad money. Brent

[Spaniard_King]

I heard through the Honda grape vine last week they were gone. Honda Dealers are thinning out but there are still 3 that I know of on the southside of Brissy a new dealer opened up recently in Horizon shores, Runaway bay is still a Honda dealer and myself :)

[PinHead]

not sure of the legalities but I would be asking the new "owner" for the boat back as you have not received payment for it.
If a boat is under finance and you have not paid yet have sold it they can take it back from the new "owner"and he dips out.

[antg2378]

Went to the police yesterday arvo, pretty much might as well have reported it to my dogs, cops didn't really care too much. I guess I will just have to wait and hear from the administrators next week. Unless they find something I think my money is as good as gone.

[finga]

I feel for you antg. It would not be a good feeling to have at all.
They should have forwarded the money straight to you as soon as it cleared if they had any moral fortitude....especially seeing they would have known there might be strife in the very near future.
The key will be in the consignment agreement you signed.

The same feeling are probably with the guy who ordered a lot of electronics as mentioned earlier in the piece if he paid a deposit.

[lippa]

I dont have many nice things to say about receivers, F&*ing #######s, I got done 21.5K a few months ago when denmac ford went down. Receivers bled what was left dry so us unsecured creditors dipped out, I would sincerely love to punch that slimy prick from delloites in the face... I still havent been paid from the receiver for work done whilst they were the receivers and managers appointed (denmac was still trading at this stage).

Hope like hell it pans out for you mate, best of luck.

cheers

lippa

[wirlybird]

bottom line possession is 9/10ths of the law you will get your money back or proceed with a civil claim now. get your case in front of the judge they don't have a leagal leg to stand on that's from a lawyer. This will only cost you court fees no need for a lawyer and you can build this cost into your claim. just show your evidence end of story it isn't that difficult

[BM]

Ant, as mentioned before you need to contact Dept of Transport and check the status of the rego transfer. You need to advise them of what's occurred and have the transfer stopped.

You will then most likely need to contact the police to aid in recovery of the boat. It's going to drag the new buyer into the mess but that is inevitable.

If the rego on the computer is still in your name you are still the legal owner. It's all very messy but that's how it is.

I may be wrong here but the police will most likely act on who is the registered owner. The rest is a civil matter and the police would be returning property to it's rightful owner.

When I retailed boats I consigned plenty and never had problems such as this so I feel for you. I used to get signed transfer documents also but it was to speed up the sale process. I think in view of these type of events being more regular that it would be safest for people not to sign the transfers at point of consignment. Instead, after it sells you go in to pick up your dollars and sign then.

Edit: just saw your prior post Ant about the police. When I lived in Qld and worked alongside the police on some occasions I discovered the Qld police to be particularly lazy compared to say, Vic police. If they could get out of doing something thats the option they regularly took.

If the rego is still in your name (good chance it is) then reporting your boat to the police as effectively stolen is the way to go. You own the boat. It was for sale at location "x". It is no longer at location "x" and you have not been paid out and it is still in your name, aka your boat. Please recover my boat Mr Plod. You investigate theft, this is a theft. (of sorts).

I don't know the retailer but I would think anyone singing their praises as good people to deal with are a tad wrong. To do what they did to you Ant, they are scumbag lowlifes. I would expect the dealer has cashed up before the inevitable and didn't care a shit about you or any others that got burned. Did the buyer of your boat pay in cash by any chance??

Nick

[antg2378]

I really don't see how dragging the new owner into it is going to help. He paid the dealer in good faith, and they have not forwarded the payment to me. He paid by bank cheque, I have been in contact with him, he phoned his bank when I informed his of what is happening and the cheque has been cleared and processed.

[charleville]

The question that buzzes around my head is who has legal title to the boat. As it was on consignment, I assume that that was not Leisure Marine. If the transfer papers have not been executed then I assume that antg still has legal title to the boat. ie legal title = owns it.

I am not a legal person so don't pin hopes on my question but that seems to be a key issue, imho.

Either way, it just means that either buyer or seller is out of pocket because of the demise of Leisure Marine and that is a very unhappy situation.



.

[charleville]

Honda Dealers are thinning out but there are still 3 that I know of on the southside of Brissy a new dealer opened up recently in Horizon shores, Runaway bay is still a Honda dealer and myself :)


That is why we don't need any more boat dealers to disappear, no matter what problems some people may have had with them. Looking at the big picture, it would be better to support the chandlery shops of the boat dealers than the BCFs of this world just to ensure that we don't lose more spare parts and maintenance facilities around Brissy.



.

[TopBhoy]

Having been caught up in something similar many years ago albeit for a sum far, far less than $15k, I found it immoral (and still do) that the main secured creditors ie banks/finance companies were largely protected based solely on confidential information. Meanwhile, Joe Public, oblivious to the situation are allowed to continue to leave deposits etc with no hope of receiving their goods.

My empathy to all those members of the public and small businesses who had cash owed to them in these circumstances. They are the ones who can least afford to take the hit yet are often the most affected.

Dragging the new 'owner' into the equation isn't a great option I agree but if the T&Cs of the consignment agreement did not permit Leisure Marine to transfer ownership then sadly there is no new 'owner'. It really depends on what is within the consignment contract. Even if ownership is retained the mess doesn't end there of course, you still need to get the boat back.....

[BM]

I really don't see how dragging the new owner into it is going to help. He paid the dealer in good faith, and they have not forwarded the payment to me. He paid by bank cheque, I have been in contact with him, he phoned his bank when I informed his of what is happening and the cheque has been cleared and processed.

Yes, what you say is true. But you also placed it on consignment in good faith. It is unfair what has happened to you and if you repossess your boat then its unfair what has happened to him.

Life was never guaranteed to be fair.

If you leave it to the receivers you will most likely get zero. Repossession if still in your name is probably the only real option. Otherwise small claims perhaps but a similar case fell over here in Vic a short time ago, so its most likely gone if you don't try to repossess.

It might sound callous but so be it. By the way, I have an outstanding bill with a customer for $10,500 and another customer for $2500. I don't chase them anymore because I won't ever see it. Gotta move on.


Cheers

[antg2378]

If it were a couple of hundred dollars I wouldn't care, but I was selling the boat for a genuine reason. I needed the funds from the boat to purchase a bigger car as my wife and I are expecting another child next year and my single cab ute is no longer practical.

[BM]

I hear ya mate! So you gotta choose. Be done over or protect your family which is at the expense of someone else. A shitty deal no doubt, but you did not create this problem. You are simply fighting for what is yours. if you can repossess then the new "buyers" issue is with the boatyard and not with you.

Cheers

[fandtm666]

I really don't see how dragging the new owner into it is going to help. He paid the dealer in good faith, and they have not forwarded the payment to me. He paid by bank cheque, I have been in contact with him, he phoned his bank when I informed his of what is happening and the cheque has been cleared and processed.

i would have them charged with theft.

1: boat was sold on consignment and as such not the legal owners

2: they received payment for the boat

3; they did not forward the payment

so it all amounts to THEFT / OBTAINING FUNDS by deception , they knew things were going bad and kept the coin and gained a financial benefit and as such under criminal law that is classed as

OBTAINING FUNDS BY DECEPTION criminal offence

see the cops and have them charged i fkn would and have done so once in the past.

[Steeler]

I am thinking if the dealer was responsible for paying the transfer fees and as it appears they were not paying the bills then by some chance they may not have got around to paying the transfer fee amongst a host of other bills overdue.

although a slim chance if this is the case then you are still the rightful owner and unfortunate as it is for the purchaser i would be making a beeline to retrieve it.

I applaud you empathy for the purchaser however you have no doubt busted your ass to own what may legally still be your asset.

[hino310]

I am thinking if the dealer was responsible for paying the transfer fees and as it appears they were not paying the bills then by some chance they may not have got around to paying the transfer fee amongst a host of other bills overdue.

although a slim chance if this is the case then you are still the rightful owner and unfortunate as it is for the purchaser i would be making a beeline to retrieve it.

I applaud you empathy for the purchaser however you have no doubt busted your ass to own what may legally still be your asset.

If you all look on your Registration Certificate, it clearly states
" A registration certificate does not prove ownership"

[Steeler]

That may very well be the case but i can assure you i would rather have this piece of paper with my name on it than somebody else s any day of the week.

[charleville]

Leisure Marine was always a significant exhibitor at the various boat shows as was Sundown Marine and probably one or two others that are no longer with us.

It makes you wonder if the boat shows will survive with the loss of some of these retailers.



.

[IcyDuck]

Really feel for your situation, Ant. I'd know how I'd feel if it happened to me. I've been caught a couple of times before in business but for much lesser amounts thankfully. As others have said, your best option seems to be if the transfer of ownership has not yet been completed. It might be tough on the new innocent owner but better him than you.

Interestingly, I've been doing some forensic IT work for a receiver of late. It is a bit of an eye-opener from the other side. It's very easy to see them as the bad guys from your position, I know I did until recently. However, you've got to remember who caused the situation. They're just cleaning up the mess. A lot of these businesses have been trading whilst insolvent for some time and the creative accounting, utter incompetence and downright fraudulent activities would blow you away. Very rarely do they NOT know it is going to end this way. The receiver has to come in, find out what they really owe, who owes them and where all the money is or has gone. With the way records have been kept, hidden or destroyed it is sometimes a massive job. I still feel it drags on too long but I now know that it is a lot harder than I previously thought. And yes, they do charge well for their time.

I'm not sure where you rate in the scheme of things but, if you are classed as an unsecured creditor, chances are you will receive very little and it will take a long time to get it (maybe 12 months or more). Receivers are normally called in by a large secured creditor (maybe multiple) or the ATO. They will all get their money first along with staff and the receiver. Unsecured creditors will be left with the carcass to pick over, if in fact there is anything left at all. I doubt the police would take any action unless title is still in your name. If it is, then I would pursue that line as it is the best option you have of getting anything back quickly.

I wish you best of luck.

[kizza1]

i hate to be the barer of bad news but as stated before registration does not prove proof of ownership.
if the new owner has a copy of a contract from leisure marine saying the boat has been paid in full. and there has been a legitimate consignment form signed then the new guy now owns the boat.
holding out on transfer papers would not have helped the situation.

the only way to get any money back is to register with the recievers and hope for the best. you need to find out from the recievers when they will be holding a credetors meeting as i believe this is where everything is detirmined on who gets what.
i am speaking from experience as i worked for a dealership that went down about a month after i left.
the staff generally have a fair idea that something is going on however they generally cant do anything about it.

[kizza1]

the other thing to check is what assets the bussiness have and how they are going to be sold off. generally they are done by auction. however at the dealership i worked at the recievers did a deal with an outsider and sold a bulk lot of spare parts, tools and engines for about 1/50th of what they were worth which in turn meant the little guys didnt get there money.

it is f@#ken rediculous that this sort of thing can go on and there is no protection for people consigning stock or even deposits on new items. they have systems in place to pay the staff when this goes down so they should have the same thing for buyers/sellers.
maybe the industry needs an indipendent body to hold the funds like they do with real estate.

[74fpv01]

Crap news all round ! Question : who was the bank cheque made out to ? May have a leg to stand on against the bank ?? Not an expert but may be worth a crack. I've heard of cases where the bank cq being processed incorrectly etc. If you were able ti go down this path , purchaser could get money back and you could get boat back ??? Good luck with whatever path works. Fingers crossed

Jason


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[antg2378]

I'm still struggling to come to terms with the whole situation to be honest. To think my boat and potentially my money is gone is a bit hard to deal with to be honest. I'm not well off and this money was to fund something else as I mentioned earlier. The people who cause the problem get away to start another business under another name and the real victims get hung out to dry.

[CHEE-FEE]

Prior to their demise, I noticed signs out the front over the last couple of weeks saying things like, "Super Special on this or that" and "Boat stock reduced POA" and stuff like that. I would say, in agreeance with someone earlier, that the big wigs there would have known all was not well in the house financially and the hammer would certainly fall sooner rather than later. Having seen some of the grubs that ran the show there over the years, I would not be surprised if really good offers were made to people to convince them to "buy now at this once only super special price"; and "just sign here sir and pay XYZ deposit and your item will be here shortly". Mr. and Mrs. Consumer then go home all happy thinking they've done the deal of a lifetime on their dream boat, only to find out that the dealership has gone tits-up and the big wigs have done a runner with their deposit money which never quite made it onto the books; Mr. and Mrs. Consumer now realise that they will never see their deposit money again, as they've paid it towards a phantom boat that was never going to exist in the first place. Of course, big bosses everywhere will never openly admit that they do this sort of thing, but they never look too worried when they are spotted out and about after all the dust has settled. Lovely people, aren't they....

Cheers,
NICK.

[ThePinkPanther]

I've known LM since it started up from the then Hortons Boathouse.

The ownership and/or management have always been, at best, both unprofessional and sadly lacking in service.

Since Keith Lay left a couple of years back, it had been one long slide downhill.

They were dumped by Haines many years back and have since been going with Stabicraft from NZ plus "other" brands.

They have always worked on the assumption that the customer is always wrong and this has lost them virtually hundreds and hundreds of customers over the years.

I have nonetheless been dealing with them for yonks as they do have a very large chandlery section albeit grossly overpriced on every item.

I recently tried to return a malfunction RULE bilge pump and was informed that "refunds are no longer company policy", i.e. you get an in-house store credit only!

Bob Stephenson and Julian are about the only two running the show and I am about 95% certain that it is only a long overdue stock reduction and not a total shut down.

If they go, that leaves the Bayside without a single decent marine outlet!!

[antg2378]

Long overdue stock reduction? They were reducing stock all right, including removing vehicles registered to the company on tilt trays. I don't care if there is no decent marine outlet on the Bayside. I WANT MY MONEY!!!!

[Lucky 1]

This solution is probably not practical for antg2378, but I thought I would mention it anyway. A director can become personally liable for any debt incurred if he/she is aware the business in trading insolvent. I do not come from a legal background, but I am sure this is the case(the hard part would be proving it). It would be great to see you get the money this way as the director would have to fork out the cash personally.

[stinky-stabi]

That is very sad. Very sad indeed! :(



.

im surprised they didnt go years ago , biggest lot of tools they were!!!!!!!! got wot was coming to them.....

[lippa]

This solution is probably not practical for antg2378, but I thought I would mention it anyway. A director can become personally liable for any debt incurred if he/she is aware the business in trading insolvent. I do not come from a legal background, but I am sure this is the case(the hard part would be proving it). It would be great to see you get the money this way as the director would have to fork out the cash personally.


This is true,

the liquidator, along with a working group of creditors need to establish in fact they did trade whilst insolvent first. then it needs to be persused through they courts, I may be wrong but i belive the creditors need to put up the money to do this.

cheers

Lippa

[2 weis]

page 49 courier mail 19/09/2011 administrator appointed
first creditor meeting mcleod and partners 215 elizabeth st brisbane 28/09/2011 at 11.00am

[fat-buoy]

This solution is probably not practical for antg2378, but I thought I would mention it anyway. A director can become personally liable for any debt incurred if he/she is aware the business in trading insolvent. I do not come from a legal background, but I am sure this is the case(the hard part would be proving it). It would be great to see you get the money this way as the director would have to fork out the cash personally.
That is correct and by the sounds of it others knew they were on the nose weeks earlier so I would say that you would have a good argument for that... problem comes when not only the company goes liquidated but the director goes into bankruptcy and all your good work goes down the gurgler.. I put money on it that they would have been squirreling money away hiding it for a while before shutting the gates as the liquidator will be looking for all money and transactions to and from for the past 12 months... Best of luck getting your money but I feel it is a losing battle..

[finga]

First port of call is definitely the consignment contract.
What does it say about payment and, as already mentioned, who was the cheque made out to.

[craigie]

Something really stinks here, What happens to deposits/boat & Motor purchases from the recent Brisbane Boat Show ??
More people will be coming forward with burns.............................

[Steeler]

Get in the queue i would assume.

[fairpractice]

Hi. What is the position of a buyer who pays for a boat when the dealer is in receivership, and takes possession of the boat with all the paperwork??
Got a reply from this dealer to a query on boatpoint re. a surtees boat, telling me a saleseman will contact me soon. Might get the cheapest but warm surtees in aus. I figure a solicitor would be the best to handle this deal (if it ever happens)
cheers john.

[lippa]

the contract would say, leisure marine, receivers and managers appointed. therefore the receiver is then liable for the contract to be honored.

[terryc]

This is every owners nightmare when their possession is entrusted to someone else, the authorities need to tighten the laws on consignment and introduce a trust account requirement for all monies received. Really feel for you antg2378 hope you are onto legal support quickly and hope you end up getting your boat or monies back, don't give up without a fight.

[robothefisho]

Because your boat was on consignment you might be ok. Or atleast you will be able to charge someone with fraud. There is a legal requirement to forward funds from a consignment sale within 14 days ( might be 7 days now). If LM was still open for business for this period without sending you the money someone is responsible. Proving who is responsible is the hard part. I would be googling the hell out of this subject and then chasing legal aid to do somthing about it.

[lippa]

If Leisure Marine were in the BIA, you may also be covered by the BIA themselves, definatly worth doing leg work with these guys to find out...

[bennykenny]

why dont you give bob stevenson a call on 0400795551 im sure he can tell you more, he is still trying to sell some stuff including boats, maybe he can fill you in

[finga]

why dont you give bob stevenson a call on 0400795551 im sure he can tell you more, he is still trying to sell some stuff including boats, maybe he can fill you in
How does Bob fit in with Leisure Marine?

[antg2378]

How does Bob fit in with Leisure Marine?


He is, or should I say was, the proprietor. Prime example, I've got to fight for what is rightfully mine, he carries on selling his shit like nothing has happened.

[bennykenny]

i would be more than pissed off if the bloke took my money and then this was posted up on another website
http://www.nuggetfishing.com.au/smf/index.php?topic=10985.msg84675#msg84675

[BM]

Antg, ind out where you can see him (under the guise of looking to buy a boat etc from his remaining items) and roll up there with say, 20 or so friends/Ausfish helpers and demand what's rightfully yours. Very intimidating and highly embarrassing for him.

Have you inquired with Dept of T'port with regard to rego status?

[BM]

You could also join that nugget website and post your story there and essentially inject yourself into aspects of the proprieters life. Find out where he lives and drop flyers into letterboxes around his place outlining what he did. Basically a campaign of shame and as long as you stick to the facts of the case then you are not guilty of slander or libel. The media may take your story, particularly if you can find another 2 or 3 people who have been done over also. The more victims, the more the media are likely to act.

None of this is nice or pretty but you are not dealing with someone who is nice or reputable. You are dealing with a man who intentionally stole your money. It was no accident. And should it be an accident then your campaign is giving him the chance to rectify that situation. :)


I would pay close attention to section 359 of the Qld Criminal Code to make sure you don't bring yourself grief though.

[finga]

He is, or should I say was, the proprietor. Prime example, I've got to fight for what is rightfully mine, he carries on selling his shit like nothing has happened.


i would be more than pissed off if the bloke took my money and then this was posted up on another website
http://www.nuggetfishing.com.au/smf/index.php?topic=10985.msg84675#msg84675
That's what I thought but also thought to myself...Sh!t. That can't be right selling stuff even after the administrators had stepped in.

If it's voluntary receivership then that makes the matter 100 times worse in my books. They knew what was happening BUT still took orders and kept monies.
I'd be ropeable but I've been known to get of my high horse and go ballistic before this day.

[BM]

Might pay to do a financial workup on the bloke as well. Get property ownership info (if he's clever it won't be in his name) and if you find some in his name have a caveat slapped on the property. It's only an insurance policy really but if he tries to sell he cannot until the caveat is resolved.

[rayken1938]

According to Nuggets site all chandlery stock will be on Grays Auction site on thursday and stabis etc up for negiotion.
Cheers
Ray

[Si]

I have somehow been caught up in this debacle, I had a boat there on consignment that was sold last weekend. I spoke to the new owner, he has paid them but I haven't been paid. I went to pick up the cheque this morning but guess what..........was met by administrators. I don't hold much hope of seeing my money but I have everything crossed.

mate im really sorry to hear about your situation. I hope somehow you get back whats rightfully yours. good luck buddy.

if anyone is a lawyer on here would you be so kind and help out your fellow ausfisher antg by giving some advice or services gratis. This is just plain wrong and theft in my book. I know how hard it is trying to pay ever increasing bills with an increasing family and to have something like this is a real set back.
just word of advice - take bms advice and be careful in how you go about this. If you break the law in any way then your case will be thrown out.

[IcyDuck]

It would be interesting to know the sequence of events that occurred. Ant may have been a victim of bad timing as much as anything else. Did the purchaser of his boat sign the contract and make payment before LM went into administration? The period in which payment must then be forwarded onto the seller should be specified in the consignment contract. It can be anything from a few days to a few weeks. If the receivers were called in during that period then LM would not be able to make payment as the bank accounts are frozen and under the direct control of the receiver.

Have you been able to speak to the receivers about your situation yet, Ant? If so, what is their position on this?

I agree with Finga though. If it was voluntary receivership, that makes it worse, as you think they would have known that it was coming when the boat was sold. The receivers will liquidate the assets through Greys or similar or look at offers for the entire stock, but that normally takes a bit longer than this from what I have seen in the past. Unless everything was well organised and documented. This would normally all be done by the receiver though and not by the owner. Also, I would have thought that this would have to be approved by the creditors - maybe at the first creditors meeting.

[antg2378]

There are a few things I'd like to say but probably shouldn't. The boat was sold and the cheque cleared before Adminsitrators were appointed on the 16th of September.

[IcyDuck]

I understand Ant. That says enough anyway.

Hope you get some joy.

[Tracker]

not on line yet.
According to Nuggets site all chandlery stock will be on Grays Auction site on thursday and stabis etc up for negiotion.
Cheers
Ray

[stinky-stabi]

atleast the stabi dealership has gone to a better company who know how to deal with people, i reckon they will sell a lot more boats when all is in place......

[pipifin]

online on Grays now...... no catalogue details until Monday 4pm

[Marlin_Mike]

atleast the stabi dealership has gone to a better company who know how to deal with people, i reckon they will sell a lot more boats when all is in place......

Who did it go to?

[robothefisho]

Somthing else to look up is obtaining funds through deception.

[TopBhoy]

According to Nuggets site all chandlery stock will be on Grays Auction site on thursday and stabis etc up for negiotion.
Cheers
Ray

This Nugget person now appears to want to take on a bit more of an active role in this matter. Given the obvious closeness to the now indebted owner, I'm a bit cynical. Creditors who had deposits, awaiting delivery, payments, etc. don't need highly discounted backdoor deals taking place.

[Macca11]

Given the publicity of this issue I find it puzzling that boats are now being advertised on an auction, and broadcasted by a supposedly reputable character. It is quite clear, given past experiences on this website, that the letter of the law re finances and monies owed bears no/minimal weight. If it was my business and I conducted it in this manner I would have serious concerns for my own personnal safety. A person can only take so much, and what might seem like a drop in the ocean to one person could infact be someones entire ocean.............

[Jarrah Jack]

Ant has gone a bit quiet, I hope that is because there is some light at the end of the tunnel for him. Its a disgrace on our system and society the way he has been treated. To read about innocent people losing good money on these pages year after year makes me want to grab the legal system by the neck and pummel it.

Its clear that we, the majority, the buying public have been done over by the system we inherited from the poms. In those days it was class defined but really that was money. Today its all about business people, the more money you have the more protected you are by this system.

I read about the boss from Opes Prime the other day who is in jail for a year, in an easy jail in the bush at that. How much did he steal from investors...Whole retirement funds no doubt and he gets a year.

We sit back and take this shit over and over again. If I went and stole Ants boat what would I get if caught? But this guy has done effectively the same thing. What will he get?

I hope Ant hasn't received some legal rubbish letter telling him to desist from talking about the topic here as it may make it difficult for him to get any funds back. The usual sort of legal crap that ends in nothing but has us, who rarely come into contact with the system, have sleepless nights.

Wish I could help you Ant but I can't. All I can do is say what I would like to see happen and, at the end of the day, at least learn something from it.

[antg2378]

I'm still here mate, I've sought legal advice and really don't want to say too much at this stage. I haven't been gagged I just don't want to jeopardise whatever chance I have of getting what is legally mine. I too am dumbfounded by the state the legal system is in, mine should be a simple clear cut case, boat was sold on consignment, they received funds and did not forward them on to me.

[Funchy]

I'm still here mate, I've sought legal advice and really don't want to say too much at this stage. I haven't been gagged I just don't want to jeopardise whatever chance I have of getting what is legally mine. I too am dumbfounded by the state the legal system is in, mine should be a simple clear cut case, boat was sold on consignment, they received funds and did not forward them on to me.

I can't do a bloody thing that I can think of except wish you well mate. A lot of people supporting you here. I am like you, I am not flush with cash and cant imagine having to deal with the situation you face. If it turns to shite and you end up with nuthin out of this let me know and I will buy you a six pack or sumthin. I feel like crap just reading about what you are going through mate. GOOD LUCK!

[Shawn 66]

Ant has gone a bit quiet, I hope that is because there is some light at the end of the tunnel for him. Its a disgrace on our system and society the way he has been treated. To read about innocent people losing good money on these pages year after year makes me want to grab the legal system by the neck and pummel it.

Its clear that we, the majority, the buying public have been done over by the system we inherited from the poms. In those days it was class defined but really that was money. Today its all about business people, the more money you have the more protected you are by this system.

I read about the boss from Opes Prime the other day who is in jail for a year, in an easy jail in the bush at that. How much did he steal from investors...Whole retirement funds no doubt and he gets a year.

We sit back and take this shit over and over again. If I went and stole Ants boat what would I get if caught? But this guy has done effectively the same thing. What will he get?

I hope Ant hasn't received some legal rubbish letter telling him to desist from talking about the topic here as it may make it difficult for him to get any funds back. The usual sort of legal crap that ends in nothing but has us, who rarely come into contact with the system, have sleepless nights.

Wish I could help you Ant but I can't. All I can do is say what I would like to see happen and, at the end of the day, at least learn something from it.
Well said JJ,
Unfortunately the Scales Of Justice are heavily weighted in the favour of the "Richer" in our society. It no longer matters if you are right or wrong , it is only how much money you have in your kick.
Shawn

[TopBhoy]

Ant, any update on this to your satisfaction? I was wondering how the great scales of justice was progressing and how it was all ending up for you and any tips you could pass on in the event a similar occurence happened to other members on here. Understandable though if you can't say much given the legal aspects involved. Good luck with it if its still progressing.

[PinHead]

why would making any comments make any difference to the legal situation, As long as you state facts then there is nothing wrong.

[TopBhoy]

why would making any comments make any difference to the legal situation, As long as you state facts then there is nothing wrong.

Stating something, particularly in public, although it may be factually correct, may aggrieve people, entrench attitudes and hinder a resolution.

Sometimes it pays to tread warily.

[PinHead]

Stating something, particularly in public, although it may be factually correct, may aggrieve people, entrench attitudes and hinder a resolution.

Sometimes it pays to tread warily.

sorry mate..if i was in that situation I do not tread warily..I walk over heads. I can be one very grumpy old bugger.

[fisho8]

All I can say on this is I hope there is a positive outcome for you Ant as you trusted these clowns with your former pride and Joy in good faith and signed an agreement. As far as I see it the dealer has with held these funds regardless of going broke and the amount should be paid in full as well as any demurrage and legal costs as this was not a stock boat. WTF should it cost an innocent party anything really or pay a solicitor to go and recover money for them?? when he has put his faith in a business and has paid them for a service FFS. I really do not understand this at all call me nieve stupid whatever but as far as I see it this is theft. They have used these funds help pay their creditors. The boat was sold the money was there and under the agreement signed in the terms and conditions set by Maritime QLD. No matter what this dealer owed this money should have bee forwarded accordingly. Just goes to show how the system let pricks like this who cannot effectivly manage their business get away with screwing good hard working people over. Ant all I can say is I hope you get double out of this mob for all the ####ing around the stress and anguish they have put you through.

[Stuart]

If you dont get the outcome you want, well there is always other ways.

[powercatboy]

Just a thought. I went through a similar thing a few years back in Sydney but at a car dealer. My car was on consignment and they gave it to a former employee as a super payout and gave me a cheque except it bounced. When I went back all cars in the yard were being taken away as went into receivership.

Short of it was, spoke to the department of fair trading, and as a registered motor dealer I was able to make a claim with the dept of fair trading as they were a registered dealer. Got my money.

Not sure if this is the same in QLD and with boat dealers but worth a call as I know the stress it causes.

Best of luck

[antg2378]

G'day everyone. I am still yet to receive payment from the sale of my boat. I have been in contact with the new owner, he has been extremely helpful in forwarding on information I have requested. I have found out the proceeds from the sale of my boat were deposited into (would you believe) an overdraft facility with a major bank. I am currently in the process of persuing the bank for wrongfully deposited funds. My solicitor sent them a letter to which they replied "we are unwilling to refund your money at this present time". I am very disappointed with the response as I am a long term customer of this bank, and am amazed they treat their customers in this way. I have since made a complaint to the financial ombudsman who has informed the bank they have 45 days to respond to me directly which expires in early December. I will also say I am not the only one Leisure Marine did this to.

[fisho8]

#### me what a Joke Ant let us hope the financial ombudsman looks at your case and rules in favour. There needs to be more laws set by someone to stop this sort of shit happeneing. I mean for god's sake do you need to do call their accountant to see if they are going broke or not before you sign a leagally binding agreement. I really need to stop going on about it Ant. This shit just pisses me off and I am not the one who is in this situation. Good luck mate I really do hope you get your money. Friggen #######s.

[Steeler]

Every time i come back to this thread to see how you are going my guts just churn thinking about what you must be going through ?. Wishing you all the best Ant.

[tigermullet]

Just a thought. I went through a similar thing a few years back in Sydney but at a car dealer. My car was on consignment and they gave it to a former employee as a super payout and gave me a cheque except it bounced. When I went back all cars in the yard were being taken away as went into receivership.

Short of it was, spoke to the department of fair trading, and as a registered motor dealer I was able to make a claim with the dept of fair trading as they were a registered dealer. Got my money.

Not sure if this is the same in QLD and with boat dealers but worth a call as I know the stress it causes.

Best of luck

I am glad your difficulties were resolved in your favour but, here in Quensland, boat dealers don't seem to be held to as much account as registered motor dealers. At least, a solicitor I consulted when having a problem with a boat dealer not handing over funds after sale, couldn't find anything. He demanded to see their trust account and I was fortunate that the purchaser's cheque (bank cheque) was deposited in the dealer's trust account. Twenty four hours after the solicitor's intervention I had the money.

What would have happened if, as in this case, the funds were banked in an overdraft facility? I think I would still be waiting without much hope of recovery. Like Angt2378 - I had a cooperative purchaser who passed on the details of payment, including the number of the bank cheque he gave the dealer. I think there is something within the Trust Account Act which leaves a dealer open to other legal action if funds from a consignment sale are not deposited into a trust account but, as you can imagine, things could become very complicated and messy.

Reading of this sorry saga makes my blood boil. There are some desperate, dodgy people out there. Part of my problem was that I treated the whole consignment process too lightly - the biggest mistake was signing transfer papers on listing the boat - I fell for the line about making the sale process smoother for the buyer. Never again. I cannot believe I was so stupid or so casual in giving absolute control to a third party but there was a certain amount of trust in the reputation of the dealer. Misplaced trust, as it turned out - even long established businesses can go down the gurgler very quickly. One other thing was in my favour - as soon as I sensed there might be trouble, I whipped the boat out from under them and hid up a creek - easily done because it was on a wet berth and I had the spare keys.

I really hope Angt2378 gets his money and, as time passes, can put the whole sorry affair behind him. I can't - I still hate the miserable bastards who, in my opinion, sought not only to deprive me of cash but a boat which gave so much pleasure.

[mustang5]

Name and Shame mate, and forward this thread to Ray Hadley on 2GB Radio.. He loves resolving these issues and has had a hand in resolving issues like this very recently. Just a thought anyways.

I feel for you mate, dont give up.

[antg2378]

I can assure you I won't give up until I get what is rightfully and legally mine. What Leisure Marine and a certain bank have done is just plain wrong. The funds from the sale of my boat did not belong to LM or a certain bank, the funds are mine.

[Steboe]

If you go to this web site http://www.yachtandboat.com.au/news/leisure-marine-goes-sole-honda
you will see the name of a person to avoid

[TimiBoy]

If you go to this web site http://www.yachtandboat.com.au/news/leisure-marine-goes-sole-honda
you will see the name of a person to avoid

Said person told me "Only an idiot wouldn't buy an ETEC." That is a quote. That's also why I stopped considering buying a Seafarer, I wanted one with a Verado, and was really close to signing an order. That switched me off. So when suddenly they switched to Honda, I stopped wondering who the idiot was...

Cheers,

Tim

[Steeler]

Sole Honda eh ?. Perhaps the others got sick of ringing chasing the account up.

[wags on the water]

sorry mate..if i was in that situation I do not tread warily..I walk over heads. I can be one very grumpy old bugger.

I thought that was hearsay.....but them's your words..

[top_deck69]

Hi Ant,
Any Updates, did you end up getting your monies?
Ben

[Dignity]

I have only just picked this thread up again (after 9 pages) af=te having read th first page and now the last 2 pages. Ant I hope you get most if not some of your money back, the law is an ass as it seems to protect the wrong party in a lot of cases, there is no such thing as Commom Law anymore it is all twisted.

On another note I was in Brisbane the other day and drove down where Springwood Marine used to be and they weren't any where to be seen. Looks like I missed another thread somewhere, the joys of having limited access when away from home.

[PinHead]

Dignity..Springwood Marine are on the other side of the highway now.

[antg2378]

Ant, any update on this to your satisfaction? I was wondering how the great scales of justice was progressing and how it was all ending up for you and any tips you could pass on in the event a similar occurence happened to other members on here. Understandable though if you can't say much given the legal aspects involved. Good luck with it if its still progressing.

I personally will never buy or sell anything on consignment ever again for obvious reasons. If you do wish to buy or sell on consignment I can offer some advice. If you are selling do not sign transfer papers until you have been paid by bank cheque and you have the cheque in your hand. Demand that all parties receive funds at the same time and that everyone is present. As a seller you hand over the signed transfer papers to the buyer, the dealer hands you a cheque less commission and the buyer hands over a cheque for the full sale amount to the dealer. If the dealer is not willing to do this walk away. There is too much at stake to put any trust in the dealer, as I have found out, someone could potentially be ripped off. I know it sounds harsh but I have learnt a very valuable lesson out of all this.......trust no one, especially when it comes to money or your posessions.

On another note the banks deadline to respond to my complaint through the financial ombudsman was yesterday, I have had no response in any way, shape or form.

[Stuart]

Start kicking heads in mate.

[BM]

Keep at it Ant, as demoralising as it is.

Just on the signed transfers. I'm not sure if its the same in Qld but in Vic, when you purchase a vehicle or vessel or anything that is registered there is no need to have the seller sign their side of the transfer (notice of disposal). I learnt this when I became a Vicroads agent whilst retailing boats. It does make things easier to have the seller sign their side (as a consignee) of the paperwork just to speed things up but I certainly understand your position.

In Vic, if you purchase a vehicle, you simply need only fill in a "notice of aquisition" and post it to Vicroads. They will then send a letter to the registered owner of the vehicle/vessel etc advising that Vicroads have been notified that the item has been disposed of and if this is not the case they have 14 days to respond. After that 14 days, the transfer is finalised.

Of course, if the buyer and seller both fill out the form then it speeds the process up a little, thats all.

So, by not signing consignment docs (in Victoria at least) it makes no difference to the legal drama that could unfold. I think somewhere early in this topic someone pointed out that the rego paperwork states in Qld that its not a record of title, just the registered owner per their system. Actually, my Vic boat trailer rego in front of me says the same thing.

I wonder if its this type of incident that caused consignment sales of cars to be illegal in Victoria?

Cheers

[TimiBoy]

I personally will never buy or sell anything on consignment ever again for obvious reasons. If you do wish to buy or sell on consignment I can offer some advice. If you are selling do not sign transfer papers until you have been paid by bank cheque and you have the cheque in your hand. Demand that all parties receive funds at the same time and that everyone is present. As a seller you hand over the signed transfer papers to the buyer, the dealer hands you a cheque less commission and the buyer hands over a cheque for the full sale amount to the dealer. If the dealer is not willing to do this walk away. There is too much at stake to put any trust in the dealer, as I have found out, someone could potentially be ripped off. I know it sounds harsh but I have learnt a very valuable lesson out of all this.......trust no one, especially when it comes to money or your posessions.

On another note the banks deadline to respond to my complaint through the financial ombudsman was yesterday, I have had no response in any way, shape or form.

Ant, for future reference, Bank Cheques can be cancelled. Get a personal cheque, because bouncing one of those can become a Criminal Offence. Otherwise Cash, or a completed Bank Transfer.

Good luck,

Tim

[BM]

Tim,

With regard to the bank cheques I have spoken to the banks about this several years ago and whilst a bank cheque can in theory be cancelled it is only in very specific circumstances. If a bank cheque was handed over in exchange for an item and then the cheque attempted to be cancelled it becomes fraud. According to my bank a lost cheque is about the only way in which a bank cheque can be cancelled or presenting it back to your bank and declaring it no longer required.

But you are right and until the fraud element is established in a transaction, the transaction would occur and the bank cheque cancelled thereby leaving the seller dollars-less until the buyer is charged with fraud and I guess even then simply charged with the offense doesn't mean the dollars get handed back over.

Cheers

Cheers