Sunfish. What have they done for those of us in QLD??

[finga]

OK all.
I've been wondering what Sunfish actually does and about the only thing I can say that I have seen them do is that their name is mentioned at a kids fishing day that happens out here every few years.
I've got no idea what amount of our money, or support, they put into our little kids day as a lot of local businesses organise and support the day. One sports shop in particular is the reason the days actually occur I feel.
I have no idea if a Sunfish rep goes to them.

A few years ago I noticed my fishing was all going to poo.
Since then I've been trying to pay attention to what is happening around me that will influence the depth of poo.
About this time I realised there was a Sunfish and they are supposed to represent me....and I pay for it's existence.
All information I gathered from this forum.
I seem to see a recurrence of debacles that Sunfish seem to place us (as a group of recreational anglers) into over the last few years. The latest put down to a mis-understanding between Minister and Sunfish (simplistically put). That mis-understanding is better described by Barry here (http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?178493-Snapper-management-fiasco)
Is this just my imagination?

What has Sunfish done for you?
What have you seen Sunfish do that actually enhance your fishing experiences?
I'm buggered if I know what they've done for me.

Do you feel they represent you as a recreational angler who is 'lucky' enough to live in QLD?

Cheers then
Scott :-?

[charleville]

I'm buggered if I know what they've done for me.

Do you feel they represent you as a recreational angler who is 'lucky' enough to live in QLD?



I have wondered about the same things, Finga.

I have put it down to the observation that some people just love creating and joining committees and associations. It makes them feel important, I suppose. Committees are not such great achievers of anything, of course, unless they have a charismatic leader who drives policy and action and the others lock step behind that person. Perhaps they lack such leadership. Dunno - I have heard their name and the odd radio interview with them but they seem well tamed by the government - which suggests to me that they are fairly useless.


However, I am just a slow talkin' country boy from western Queensland and there is lots about human nature that I don't understand. Like, why any pastime has to end up having competitions? Fishing competitions??? I don't get it. Fishing is a relaxing activity to me. If people want to be competitive, why don't they do it properly and play squash? :D


Sigh! So many complexities in life. :-?


.

[Neil81]

im sure if you go on there website you can find out everything you need tpo know

[tunaticer]

The whole Sunfish thing seems to me to be a copy of most union movements, pay your fees regardless of if you want to be a part of it or not, pay for the privelige to be spoken for (I can't say I agree with what they say for a large part), then pay through the nose by the changes that are implemented through their consultations with the government through the new legislations imposed on us all.
It is all about POWER for those involved, just like union delegates and union hierarchy who are all so big personalities and riding the wave for more power and more than likely moneys somewhere hidden along the way. They don't care if we have a stop work meeting or strike (closed seasons) or if the grounds are blacklisted (greenzones), they still have their perceived power and they are happy. Somehow, Sunfish and Labor are a perfect marriage, albeit completely dysfunctional.

[goat boy]

That post by Tunaticer seems to be pretty much my perception too. On the other hand though, in this day and age of endless red tape surrounding our once took-for-granted outdoor activity; don't we, as recreation anglers need some sort of voice/representation?
What would be a better alternative to Sunfish? (to be honest though, I know 4/5 of FA of what they do). Who would be willing to step into that sort of role and feel the wrath of the masses? There is a politician lurking here somewhere, input? idea? opinion?

[Gazza]

Yeah guys.....I pay "car rego severals times"....WHERE'S my @##$%$%^$ consultation on "ROADS/TOLLS" expenditure ??

Keep it Reel.....Ausfish , is the best sounding board for QLD RecFishos "issues" .....jmo

[PinHead]

Yeah guys.....I pay "car rego severals times"....WHERE'S my @##$%$%^$ consultation on "ROADS/TOLLS" expenditure ??

Keep it Reel.....Ausfish , is the best sounding board for QLD RecFishos "issues" .....jmo

you can ear bash your local MP over raods etc..same as i earbash mine over fisheries amongst other things.

Bruce and Jack summed it up pretty well..egos doing somehting that no one really wants.

Bloody hell Neil..people need Sunfish to show them how to teach a kid..I better find out more before I take my grandson fishing again.

[Mike Delisser]

Is it that time again finga? I know you winge a lot but blaming Sunfish cause you can't catch as many fish as you use to might be saying more about you than it does about Sunfish.
I could tell you that aprox $17 out of every boat rego goes to the QLD GOVERNMENT as a PPV Levy and out of that about 50 cents will go to Sunfish, ($16.50 to the Gov to spend on improving boating facilities - 50 cents to Sunfish) but I know you already know that don't you. That 50 cents you winge about is used for Junior Education Clinics, Surveys that show the value of rec fishing in $ terms (used to show rec anglers value each year to the states economy and promote our cause) and IF there is any left over it makes up a small part of the admin costs (the major part of this always comes from memberships)
I'll add too that I've attended one of their Kids Clinics and I recon around 1/2 the kids wouldn't have had a father figure around to teach them to fish. Many of us on this site take alot of things for granted when it comes to fishing but some of these kids were at least 15 years old and had never been fishing in their lives, just because there was't anyone to take them. Fortunately for them there's people around who think introducing as many kids as possible to fishing is good for all of us anglers in the long run.

If you like finga I'll send you 50 cents every year so you don't have to winge about being ripped off by Sunfish or helping those damm kids, what was that post of your's awhile back, "What's wrong with some of the youth of today". Ahh hang on, the 50 cents won't get to you anyway because of your problems with Aussie Post re "Australia Post, what an absolute bloody joke". Perhaps I could send it via Paypal, opps, I forgot about your winge in "Paypal" earlier this year. Maybe just PM me your BSB and acc number and I'll send you 50 cents that way every year, that's unless you've got a problem with the banks????? ;)

[Feral]

Always someone who wants to sook at representative bodies, usually always someone who cant be bothered joining up and making a difference or having a go themselves.

I too am trained by sunfish to teach people how to fish. A 2 day course where they teach you all sorts of useful things about running an event.

Apart from the take a kid fishing days which is funded through Sunfish by the Govt, Sunfish cough up the insurance for any other fishing clinic I fancy putting on.

Sunfish represent me at Govt Level, they inform me what they are doing, they publish regular reports, Barry sends out a monthly email, they have a lot of people who do a lot of hard work for fisho's, like John Crone who co-ordinates the kids fishing days, Keith Latimer who trains the trainers, as well as co-ordinates all the training days that get put on, just to mention a couple.

Mostly they do it for love, because they care about promoting their chosen sport, (just like most other representative bodies for just about any sport). Strangely enough they dont do it just to see how much abuse they can cop on fishing forums, or how long it takes for the whinger brigade to hijack their threads when they ask for information.

.

[PinHead]

well there ya go feral..and who are they representative of? Maybe you but not me and I object to them claiming they represent rec anglers..they represent their members and no one else.
I do not need them nor anyone else making represenations on my behalf to the Govt on rec angling issues.
AND...I also object the PPV funding them. Get their members to fund them.
If the Govt feel the need to dish out the PPV to anyone they desire, I would much rather they gave it to VMR and Coastguard.

[SUPERDAFF]

Always someone who wants to sook at representative bodies, usually always someone who cant be bothered joining up and making a difference or having a go themselves.

I too am trained by sunfish to teach people how to fish. A 2 day course where they teach you all sorts of useful things about running an event.

Apart from the take a kid fishing days which is funded through Sunfish by the Govt, Sunfish cough up the insurance for any other fishing clinic I fancy putting on.

Sunfish represent me at Govt Level, they inform me what they are doing, they publish regular reports, Barry sends out a monthly email, they have a lot of people who do a lot of hard work for fisho's, like John Crone who co-ordinates the kids fishing days, Keith Latimer who trains the trainers, as well as co-ordinates all the training days that get put on, just to mention a couple.

Mostly they do it for love, because they care about promoting their chosen sport, (just like most other representative bodies for just about any sport). Strangely enough they dont do it just to see how much abuse they can cop on fishing forums, or how long it takes for the whinger brigade to hijack their threads when they ask for information.

.
Right on Feral ... or perhaps that should be 'write on'. You've nailed it perfectly. In all my travels around this globe, I have never once come across a statue erected to a critic. Sure, plenty of statues to people who achieved unbelievable milestones and yes, plenty to people who stuffed up. Plenty not erected where perhaps they could have been. But never one to honor the bleatings of a critic. That may be because criticism without offering a constructive solution, a part solution or even just an attempt to steer others in the direction of one is IMHO, a trait of weakness.

Damn - now I'm also going to have to reconsider how I think about 'ferals' seeing as one finally made great and constructive sense. SUPERDAFF

[PinHead]

wow SD..where do I find the Sunfish statue?
I will give you a constructive solution..how about ALL the PPV go to providing better boating facilitioes eg ramps etc.
A weakness is sitting back big noting that you represent people that you have no right in representing..that is alluding to false pretence in my books.
If Sunfish want to promote their ideas to Govt that is good BUT let them fund themselves and only make representations for their members and no one else.

[Boat Hog]

If the Govt feel the need to dish out the PPV to anyone they desire, I would much rather they gave it to VMR and Coastguard.

As a resident of NSW, I had to look into what this PPV thing was. Imagine my amazement when I discovered it was a Private Pleasure Vessel Levy (try saying that after a few sherbets;)).

Sunfish state that; " ... $3.8 million collected annually from Queensland ... recreational boat owners in the form of the PPV levy & from the Stocked Impoundment (SIP) Permit. "

So if you own a registered boat and don't even fish you "sponsor" Sunfish.

If you beach, rock, estuary or fresh water(not stocked impoundment) fish without a registered boat you pay nothing towards Sunfish.

Yet, Sunfish claim they represent all Rec Fishers (as the "States peak recreational fishing group").

So they collect funding from people they don't represent (boat owners who don't fish) and recieve no funding from some of the fishers they do represent (fishers who either don't own a registered boat or have a stocked impoundment permit).

I am not saying anything about the work of Sunfish. But their lop sided revenue collection seems wrong.

I'm with Pinhead on this one. Give the PPV Levy to VMR, Coastguard, maybe even better boat ramps and boating facilites.

Cheers,

[STUIE63]

wow SD..where do I find the Sunfish statue?
I will give you a constructive solution..how about ALL the PPV go to providing better boating facilitioes eg ramps etc.
A weakness is sitting back big noting that you represent people that you have no right in representing..that is alluding to false pretence in my books.
If Sunfish want to promote their ideas to Govt that is good BUT let them fund themselves and only make representations for their members and no one else.

Greg there should be a statue in the north for the great work sunfish did in the gbrmp debacle and there should be a couple down south for the stellar work they did in the mbmp and the snapper fiasco . oh that is right there is a big pineapple somewhere

[Neil81]

cant believe what im reading!!! seriously if you can do so much better then step up to the plate!!!

[TheRealAndy]

Ahhh, ask me!!! I have fought long and hard with Sunfish. Great to have a "representative body" that consists mainly of govenrment funding and grannie pokie players from inala, but alas, this org is not without its merits. Now if youe exlude the likes of Dave Bateman that will roll over when told the gov will pull funding, and guys like scott michell that think that if you dont own a GPS with green zone maps you deserved to get caught, and that all QLD fishos would be better of with a fishing licence, then you do have a few good guys. I have blued hard with barry pollock, but he is not a bad bloke, and I think now he gets why we are all so pissed off. TO be honest, I think I would be happy to part with some cash to see Barry do his work. Problem is, as with all orgs is that for the 3 good blokes, there is 20 who will wreck it for everyone else. I have been there, seen it and dealt with it. If you lot can come up with a better solution I am all ears. In the mean time, if you got nothing of value to add then shut up and stop whining.

[Mike Delisser]

Ahhh, ask me!!! I have fought long and hard with Sunfish. Great to have a "representative body" that consists mainly of govenrment funding and grannie pokie players from inala, but alas, this org is not without its merits. Now if youe exlude the likes of Dave Bateman that will roll over when told the gov will pull funding, and guys like scott michell that think that if you dont own a GPS with green zone maps you deserved to get caught, and that all QLD fishos would be better of with a fishing licence, then you do have a few good guys. I have blued hard with barry pollock, but he is not a bad bloke, and I think now he gets why we are all so pissed off. TO be honest, I think I would be happy to part with some cash to see Barry do his work. Problem is, as with all orgs is that for the 3 good blokes, there is 20 who will wreck it for everyone else. I have been there, seen it and dealt with it. If you lot can come up with a better solution I am all ears. In the mean time, if you got nothing of value to add then shut up and stop whining.

Andy, Mods, and Ausfish's registered owner, I'm no lawyer but..................

[Captain Incredible]

Stuie63, I was on the stakeholder representative group to the then EPA during the MBMP review. Sunfish were MIA. (Missing in action) BTW, Check out their web site & the Sunfish press release on the loss of 17% of MBMP to rec fishers. Sunfish Queensland and the Queensland Game Fishing Association support the Government’s attempts, through this plan, to provide improvements in protection to important fish nursery areas particularly sea grasses, rocky reef, coral and mangrove areas within the Moreton Bay Marine Park (Sunfish October 2008) Stellar???? In fact, every week in the Redcliffe Herald there was a letter to the Editor from the local Sunfish Chair supporting the EPA. Stellar?????? And in fact in the same local rag, a week after I had organised a photo shoot of local fishermen on the rocks at Woody Point to highlight concerns over the possible closure of theis area to rec fishing, The Local Sunfish Chair as well as the Sunfish EO had their photo taken with the local Labor member & other fishermen dancing in support of the EPA and ther upcoming restrictions of recreational fishing access through Green Zones via the MBMP zoning arrangements. Stellar?????????

I was also on the SNWG for three years where recreational fishing reps fought to keep Snapper at a bag of 5 with no slot limit. Stellar????????????????????? Sorry Stuie63. I was there. And no, no statues should be awarded mate.

[Lovey80]

Andy, Mods, and Ausfish's registered owner, I'm no lawyer but..................

Ummmm :o What?

[Mike Delisser]

These could also be selectivly taken from the same Sunfish media release however alone they also would not be an accurate portrayal either. And has it gone up to 17% or is that a typo? I thought it was 16%.

1/ Similar conservation values, however could have been achieved without the introduction of green (no fishing) zones.
2/ Sunfish Queensland and the Queensland Game Fishing Association are disappointed that the iconic recreational fishing location at Long Point (Mirapool) on Moreton Bay has been included in a no fishing green zone. This will have major impacts on numerous beach anglers who have traditionally fished in this area for many decades
3/ We also do not agree with new restrictions in the central bay and offshore of Moreton Island. These are traditional recreational fishing areas for many boat anglers.
4/ Most importantly the crucial issues of water quality, degradation of the catchments, chemical pollution including excessive nutrient runoff, prevention of introduction of marine pests and the effects of increasing population growth need to be suitably addressed so that we can hand on a healthy, robust and enjoyable Moreton Bay to future generations.
ect ect

Ausfishers can draw their own conclusions from the full press release here.
http://sunfish.realitysoftware.com.au/docs/Joint_Media_Release_MBMP_Oct_2008.doc

[STUIE63]

Stuie63, I was on the stakeholder representative group to the then EPA during the MBMP review. Sunfish were MIA. (Missing in action) BTW, Check out their web site & the Sunfish press release on the loss of 17% of MBMP to rec fishers. Sunfish Queensland and the Queensland Game Fishing Association support the Government’s attempts, through this plan, to provide improvements in protection to important fish nursery areas particularly sea grasses, rocky reef, coral and mangrove areas within the Moreton Bay Marine Park (Sunfish October 2008) Stellar???? In fact, every week in the Redcliffe Herald there was a letter to the Editor from the local Sunfish Chair supporting the EPA. Stellar?????? And in fact in the same local rag, a week after I had organised a photo shoot of local fishermen on the rocks at Woody Point to highlight concerns over the possible closure of theis area to rec fishing, The Local Sunfish Chair as well as the Sunfish EO had their photo taken with the local Labor member & other fishermen dancing in support of the EPA and ther upcoming restrictions of recreational fishing access through Green Zones via the MBMP zoning arrangements. Stellar?????????

I was also on the SNWG for three years where recreational fishing reps fought to keep Snapper at a bag of 5 with no slot limit. Stellar????????????????????? Sorry Stuie63. I was there. And no, no statues should be awarded mate.

CI read my post again . I think the statue for sunfish should be a big pineapple and the whole post was tongue in cheek
Stuie

[Shawn 66]

Is it that time again finga? I know you winge a lot but blaming Sunfish cause you can't catch as many fish as you use to might be saying more about you than it does about Sunfish.
I could tell you that aprox $17 out of every boat rego goes to the QLD GOVERNMENT as a PPV Levy and out of that about 50 cents will go to Sunfish, ($16.50 to the Gov to spend on improving boating facilities - 50 cents to Sunfish) but I know you already know that don't you. That 50 cents you winge about is used for Junior Education Clinics, Surveys that show the value of rec fishing in $ terms (used to show rec anglers value each year to the states economy and promote our cause) and IF there is any left over it makes up a small part of the admin costs (the major part of this always comes from memberships)
I'll add too that I've attended one of their Kids Clinics and I recon around 1/2 the kids wouldn't have had a father figure around to teach them to fish. Many of us on this site take alot of things for granted when it comes to fishing but some of these kids were at least 15 years old and had never been fishing in their lives, just because there was't anyone to take them. Fortunately for them there's people around who think introducing as many kids as possible to fishing is good for all of us anglers in the long run.

If you like finga I'll send you 50 cents every year so you don't have to winge about being ripped off by Sunfish or helping those damm kids, what was that post of your's awhile back, "What's wrong with some of the youth of today". Ahh hang on, the 50 cents won't get to you anyway because of your problems with Aussie Post re "Australia Post, what an absolute bloody joke". Perhaps I could send it via Paypal, opps, I forgot about your winge in "Paypal" earlier this year. Maybe just PM me your BSB and acc number and I'll send you 50 cents that way every year, that's unless you've got a problem with the banks????? ;)
Great idea Mike , lets slip in a bit of personal abuse along with your point of view.
Shawn

[Mike Delisser]

Great idea Mike , lets slip in a bit of personal abuse along with your point of view.
Shawn

I think "abuse" is a stretch Shawn but point taken, I'll talk to Scott and tell him my reasons, but he'll need to delete a couple of his PMs first, box is full.


finga has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

[finga]

Is it that time again finga? I know you winge a lot but blaming Sunfish cause you can't catch as many fish as you use to might be saying more about you than it does about Sunfish.
I could tell you that aprox $17 out of every boat rego goes to the QLD GOVERNMENT as a PPV Levy and out of that about 50 cents will go to Sunfish, ($16.50 to the Gov to spend on improving boating facilities - 50 cents to Sunfish) but I know you already know that don't you. That 50 cents you winge about is used for Junior Education Clinics, Surveys that show the value of rec fishing in $ terms (used to show rec anglers value each year to the states economy and promote our cause) and IF there is any left over it makes up a small part of the admin costs (the major part of this always comes from memberships)
I'll add too that I've attended one of their Kids Clinics and I recon around 1/2 the kids wouldn't have had a father figure around to teach them to fish. Many of us on this site take alot of things for granted when it comes to fishing but some of these kids were at least 15 years old and had never been fishing in their lives, just because there was't anyone to take them. Fortunately for them there's people around who think introducing as many kids as possible to fishing is good for all of us anglers in the long run.

If you like finga I'll send you 50 cents every year so you don't have to winge about being ripped off by Sunfish or helping those damm kids, what was that post of your's awhile back, "What's wrong with some of the youth of today". Ahh hang on, the 50 cents won't get to you anyway because of your problems with Aussie Post re "Australia Post, what an absolute bloody joke". Perhaps I could send it via Paypal, opps, I forgot about your winge in "Paypal" earlier this year. Maybe just PM me your BSB and acc number and I'll send you 50 cents that way every year, that's unless you've got a problem with the banks????? ;)
My problem with fishing is I cannot go to spots I like when I want to.
It has nothing to do with my ability as it's always been pretty crook.
What I am saying it is getting to the point where I just don't want to go fishing with all the rule changes and the rest of the crap most people seem to simply 'accept'. It's especially hard when you realise most of the crap is just that. Crap.
Why is it that Sunfish seem to be in the middle of debacle after debacle?

So Mike. How is it we cannot see Sunfish's financials?
A lot is said about how they spend money on this and that all to help the recreational angler. Well prove it or is Sunfish another Craig Thompson fiasco? Prove to me Sunfish is not a fiasco.
We can easily see where my NSW fishing license money goes to. I just look on a web-site and it's all there. I'd like to see where Sunfish's money (which I contribute to) goes to.
If Sunfish were above board I thought they'd be sprooking about all the good they've done with the money they get. They sprook about anything else it seems.
Why is it that the section of their website entitled "Education" is blank is education is a big focus?
Why is there no current QLD fishing regulations on Sunfish's site if education is so important or are they like me. Haven't got a bloody clue?
Why is the events page blank?? No fishing clinics on the go??

For those who want to read about my whinnings here are the threads:
I reckon I have a right to have a whinge when you read them.
Australia Post (http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?169186-Australia-Post.-What-an-absolute-bloody-joke&highlight=australia+post)
Some of the youth of Australia (http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?172711-What-is-wrong-with-some-of-the-youth-of-Australia&highlight=youth+Australia)
Paypal (http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?171563-Paypal&highlight=paypal)
Maybe a few threads where I pay praise should be put up too??

And Shawn...it's all good matey. I just wished those who are charged to represent me as a recreational angler would do so with as much passion. :)

PS: I too have helped at the fishing clinics out this way and also helped kids in Brisbane with tackle and rod repairs and even boat parts. Out here I'll pull up and talk to kids I see going fishing or fishing out here and help them with what-ever I can. ie skills, bait, tackle, rod repairs.
It's not hard to find them out here. Kids go fishing all the time in town.

Yes, some kids need a hand but I don't have to brag about the stuff I do for kids. Those who know are the only people who need to know.

[TheRealAndy]

BTW, if you are a member of Sunfish, then I am pretty sure you can get access to the financial statements. Pretty sure this is legislated in the incorporations act (I will check up on that tomorrow). I think ANSA affiliates with sunfish, so if you are ANSA member you should be able to get access.

[finga]

Aren't I a member seeing I pay boat rego's?

[charleville]

I would much rather see my 50c per year contribution go to a VMR or Coastguard rather than to an organisation for which the major activity seems to be the running of kid's fishing clinics.

My problems with such funding of kid's fishing clinics are:-

(a) It is selective. There is no way that every Qld kid could attend these clinics.. I missed out on all of those things when I was a kid from a home with difficult circumstances because they were never offered any any of my schools. Big deal. Am I supposed to now be a delinquent?

Gee whizz - there were not even school cadets at my high school - which was fine by me 'cos I have always regarded all of that business where some kids are called officers and dress up in uniforms and can pompously boss around other kids to be a nonsense. Those pompous kids probably grow up wanting to create committees that they can boss around.

(b) Australia is overwhelmed by charitable organisations which overlap and other than creating well paid jobs for their execs and telemarketers, they have very dubious effectiveness and even less credible accountability. There is something like one registered charity in Australia for every 450 people and their call centres all seem to telephone me several times each week seeking money. Who needs a Sunfish to do any sort of charitable work? It is not their role, I would have thought.

(c) The people who will benefit most from Sunfish's funding of kids' fishing clinics are the tackle shops and sporting goods retailers. Let them do their own business development of future customers. I don't want Sunfish to do that.


Will the tear jerking morality spruikers who suggest that my boat rego fees should be used to fund kid's fishing clinics so as to help those kids avoid delinquency also be willing for those same funds to fund kid's brass bands, marching girl teams, gardening clubs, chess clubs etc? No? Why not? What have you got against kid's brass bands, marching girl teams, gardening clubs, chess clubs etc, you cultural and intellectual dwarves?


Anyway, there are other ways to run such things. A few years ago, an Ausfisher asked for volunteers to accompany some blind people on an fishing outing at Woody Point. A stack of us volunteered and supplied rods, reels and tackle on the day. I met quite a number of the Ausfish stalwarts at that event. It was very well supported. If we want to do that sort of thing we can without needing Sunfish to fund it.


However, the kids' fishing thing is a distraction to the core issue here. Sunfish is pretty well invisible to most of us and therefore could cease to exist without any of us knowing nor caring. Anna, please give my 50 cents to a VMR. That's called "democracy."


:devilish:


.

[Dicko]

I haven't seen eye to eye with Sunfish on many issues in the past, but seriously, you guys whinging about them using part of their funding on kids fishing clinics are pathetic. Let alone the slap in the face you're giving to the hundreds of volunteers out there actually doing something other than key board whinging. Considering some of the anti fishing crap most of these kids are dished out by parts of the media, and others they come into contact with, broadening their horizons a little with some balance can only be a good thing for them and us in the future. And you can bet your arse our "competitors" are out there actively targeting kids with their point of view.

The biggest trouble with a lobby group/political group for rec fishoes is that you'll never please the perpetual whingers.

Here's a couple of options

1/ Join Sunfish put your case across - change from within.
2/ Start a better group.

Some of you need to stick to the old fashioned code of "Put up or Shut up"

Edit. I'll happily donate 50c to those of you who feel hard done by over this. Please pm your bank deposit or paypal details.

[charleville]

Here's a couple of options

1/ Join Sunfish put your case across - change from within.
2/ Start a better group.



Don't wanna do either. That is democracy again.



. I'll happily donate 50c to those of you who feel hard done by over this. Please pm your bank deposit or paypal details.



Just send mine to the Manly Coastguard please.

What about you Finga, Pinhead and anyone else? Can we get a thousand Ausfishers to take up this generous offer? (It is meant to be generous, isn't it?) I reckon that we should be able to find a thousand Ausfishers to invite Dicko to fulfil his generous offer. ;)




.

[Dicko]

Don't wanna do either. That is democracy again.






Just send mine to the Manly Coastguard please.

What about you Finga, Pinhead and anyone else? Can we get a thousand Ausfishers to take up this generous offer? (It is meant to be generous, isn't it?) I reckon that we should be able to find a thousand Ausfishers to invite Dicko to fulfil his generous offer. ;)




.

If you get a thousand takers who feel they are hard done by those kids fishing clincs, I'll honour what I said, no problem.

I already support my local coast guard so I will pay it direct to yourselves, you can then choose to do with it as you please.

[charleville]

If you get a thousand takers who feel they are hard done by those kids fishing clincs, I'll honour what I said, no problem.



Heheheh! Ya gotta be careful making courageous offers like this, as the instructive case of some bloke named Ben Lugavere, or at least his boss, shows, in relation to the business 'social networking' site LinkedIn ...


https://img.skitch.com/20110912-f2i8tqnqh2i67w8w3wjngef8mh.preview.jpg (https://skitch.com/charleville2/f2mk2/welcome-bruce-linkedin)Click for large view (https://skitch.com/charleville2/f2mk2/welcome-bruce-linkedin) - Uploaded with Skitch (http://skitch.com)


Do you want to put an upper limit on that offer? Chances are there will be people joining Ausfish from all over the word just to say to you that they are hard done by because of the fishing clinics.


Perhaps we should start an extra thread and ask Steve to add another Ausfish server to handle the onslaught. ;D;D;D


.

[PADDLES]

whether you like sunfish or loath sunfish, and pushing the snapper debate to one side, at some point you have to ask yourself what would recreational angling be like in queensland without their input so far? would we be better or worse off? would it just be the same for us?

some more hypotheticals, if they were disbanded, what would take their place? who would represent recreational angling to government?

now i don't know how sunfish operate, but i'm guessing there's some sort of democratic process there. so therefore, if enough of you guys wanted to make a difference to sunfish (and hence the representation of recreational angling to our government) i'm sure based on numbers you could all go and sign up and get yourselves elected into positions of responsibility and then push your barrow from there. coming on here and just bagging sunfish out for the last few months has made no difference whatsoever to the world and has just made you lose sleep. so if enough of you genuinely want to make a change then just go and sign up as a member, use your numbers to get your agenda pushed through, and make yourselves heard.

personally, i'm just happy that there's someone there doing something about recreational angling even if they're not necessarilly being listened to.

[Shawn 66]

whether you like sunfish or loath sunfish, and pushing the snapper debate to one side, at some point you have to ask yourself what would recreational angling be like in queensland without their input so far? would we be better or worse off? would it just be the same for us?

some more hypotheticals, if they were disbanded, what would take their place? who would represent recreational angling to government?

now i don't know how sunfish operate, but i'm guessing there's some sort of democratic process there. so therefore, if enough of you guys wanted to make a difference to sunfish (and hence the representation of recreational angling to our government) i'm sure based on numbers you could all go and sign up and get yourselves elected into positions of responsibility and then push your barrow from there. coming on here and just bagging sunfish out for the last few months has made no difference whatsoever to the world and has just made you lose sleep. so if enough of you genuinely want to make a change then just go and sign up as a member, use your numbers to get your agenda pushed through, and make yourselves heard.

personally, i'm just happy that there's someone there doing something about recreational angling even if they're not necessarilly being listened to.

That is the essence of my concerns surrounding Sunfish . If they are not influencing Government policy to a certain degree , how else are they representing the general recreational fishers community . Just as an aside , before anyone suggests that I join Sunfish and attempt to change the status quo , I have neither the patience , temperament , nor qualifications to do so .
Shawn
P.S And this is not an attack on any individual connected with that organisation.

[PADDLES]

i'm hearing ya shawn, i have the same concerns, the government just isn't listening. like you, i neither have the time nor the inclination to try to influence government, however i am more than happy to contribute membership money to an organisation that will attempt to do this on my behalf. but i still fail to see how we should all be shooting at the only organisation that's trying to make a difference, when the real target should be the government who's not listening.

i again raise my argument for the imposition of a recreational fishing license to create a massive instant membership of, and to raise funds for, a completely democratically formed organisation to represent recreational anglers to government here in queensland.

[MudRiverDan]

Rec fishing has just been given an economic value of 7 billion dollars in Australia (correct me if I have made a mistake).
This forum appears to have a strong boating/fishing presence.

Is it possible the presence of rec fishing people is about to change...

[PinHead]

well..perhaps instead of bagging other re like or dislike of Sunfish, my question is: Where has it all gone wrong in the past 20 years. The Burns Inquiry spelt it all out rather well:

and in 1994 the press release stated it was adopted:
http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/uploadedFiles/common/policies/Fishing%20-%20Recreational%20-%20Image4.pdf

so which Governments in the time since then have ripped it all apart?

[PADDLES]

brilliant post PH, and good question, just where has it all come unstuck?

i'm thinking that the cost and requirements of fisheries management have not moved with the times and have simply been "politicised" by the government in order to secure some green votes. ie. common sense was thrown out the window and it became cheaper to create kneejerk policy instead of pay for good/transparent data and research.

[Shawn 66]

brilliant post PH, and good question, just where has it all come unstuck?

i'm thinking that the cost and requirements of fisheries management have not moved with the times and have simply been "politicised" by the government in order to secure some green votes. ie. common sense was thrown out the window and it became cheaper to create kneejerk policy instead of pay for good/transparent data and research.
I am inclined to agree with you .
Shawn

[Dicko]

Do you want to put an upper limit on that offer? Chances are there will be people joining Ausfish from all over the word just to say to you that they are hard done by because of the fishing clinics.

.



I reckon that we should be able to find a thousand Ausfishers to invite Dicko to fulfil his generous offer. ;)
.

You're right, I'd better set an upper limit, seeing you're inclined to promote it elsewhere and not in the spirit it was intended. (Why anyone would sign up here to disagree with the kids fishing clinics and send me a pm to get 50c is beyond me, but there's plenty of loonies out there in internet land..)

Seeing as you're confident of 1000 ausfishers taking up the offer, we'll set it at that. As an added bonus when it hits 1000 I'll throw in $100 to the charity of your choice.

When they start flooding in, I'll email Steve and ask for a bigger inbox. ::)

oh, and while we're talking about my inbox, considering how strongly you feel and how much yapping you do, yours (or the others you mentioned) hasn't arrived yet...

[Dicko]

Back to the real issues of Sunfish. Most of their faults come from being too reliant on Gov't funding and as such become a toothless tiger on any meaty issues. I can't see any change to that without massive public support, and for various reasons I can't see that changing anytime soon. It seems to me that you guys picking on the kids fishing clinics are attacking one of the more worthwhile choices they've done with a very small part their/our funding and should be concentrating on the 'real' issues and how to change them... ..

[charleville]

oh, and while we're talking about my inbox, considering how strongly you feel and how much yapping you do, yours (or the others you mentioned) hasn't arrived yet...



Ah - don't take it too seriously, mate. Fishing - and this website - is a pastime. Nothing of a life or death nature. Nothing to fight about or get upset at various opinions expressed here. Most of us just enjoy the banter.


Most of us regulars like Finga and Pinhead and Jarrah Jack just love a bit of good natured elbowing in the finest Aussie blokey traditions on Ausfish.


All good fun. 8-)


Am still puzzled about government funded committees like Sunfish, though.



.

[Dicko]

Ah - don't take it too seriously, mate. Fishing - and this website - is a pastime. Nothing of a life or death nature. Nothing to fight about or get upset at various opinions expressed here. Most of us just enjoy the banter.


Most of us regulars like Finga and Pinhead and Jarrah Jack just love a bit of good natured elbowing in the finest Aussie blokey traditions on Ausfish.


All good fun. 8-)


Am still puzzled about government funded committees like Sunfish, though.



.

Well at least we've established you're all talk and no action. That's hardly an Aussie blokey tradition, but anyway, it seems to be increasing these days. Especially now the internet offers a bigger platform for people like yourself to just sit on the sidelines throwing rocks at those on the field.

[finga]

Have often are these kids clinics run?
Is there a timetable somewhere?

[gunna]

Its times like these that you wonder just how much our illustrious Shadow Minister for Fishing watches these posts. And whether he might have a comment ??

[charleville]

Well at least we've established you're all talk and no action. That's hardly an Aussie blokey tradition, but anyway, it seems to be increasing these days. Especially now the internet offers a bigger platform for people like yourself to just sit on the sidelines throwing rocks at those on the field.


;D;D;D;D;D


There is nothing more dangerous than someone who believes that they know what is right for other people.



.

[finga]

Soooooo. Back to the question.
What has Sunfish done for YOU.
Have you been to a fishing clinic as an instructor or learner? How many of these clinics happen every year and where are they held?
Those who keep saying about these clinics should have that information handy.
No mention of that on Sunfish's website. Happenings and education are a blank page.

Other then the clinics I don't think anyone has mentioned anything else positive Sunfish has done for them......have they?

[Macks forever]

Maybe I could clarify for some of the armchair experts/critics here. Just pick up any old Sunfish magazine or check the various websites and you could find this out for yourselves.

“Sunfish” is not just ONE organization.

Sunfish Queensland is ONE organization, which is an umbrella organization made up of several parts. It does receive funding from government. As far as I am aware this money funds one paid position only, at a salary of something like or not much more than an average secretary/PA. The remaining VERY limited funds [do your own calculations of the 50 cents out of 17 dollars PPV mentioned previously for the total funds out of about 3-4million total PPV]] is used for basic admin and specific projects such as Angler Education Clinics. As far as I can see, the rest of the people involved are all volunteers.
Whether you think they do any good at all, I find the previous comparison to Craig Thompson offensive.

However I do agree they are not proactive/militant enough, nor do they participate in forums like this enough to give the average fisher enough info to keep up to date on their actions. There are a number of other criticisms I have of Sunfish Qld, but none of them relate to the effort they put in, the volunteer hours they give, or the fact that, whether I agree with them or not, in most cases they are doing what they believe is best for recreational fishing in Qld. Some fresh blood/fresh eyes are probably warranted, but who will step up to the plate? Yes there are a few examples of seat warming and protecting a particular patch, as well as a SEQ focus, but as others have said, at least they are making an effort.

As an umbrella organization, Sunfish Queensland has organization members. For reasons unknown to me, Sunfish Queensland does not have individual members.

The members of Sunfish Queensland include various organizations such as ANSA, QAFCA, QGFA, AUFA, FFSAQ, and the Blue Fin Fishing Club. Many of the committee have a strong allegiance to QAFCA.

The rest of the membership of Sunfish Qld is made up of branches.

There are at least half a dozen Sunfish branches around the state. BUT these should not be called branches because they are separately incorporated groups ENTIRELY run by volunteers with NO govt funding [some funding is filtered through Sunfish Qld for fishing clinics]. They are affiliated with Sunfish Qld but are not beholden to Sunfish Qld. I understand that there are parts of Qld that do not have a Sunfish branch active in their region.

I have the utmost respect for these branches and the people in them. They do their own thing in their own areas and this includes various forums, fishing clinics, submissions on various issues, delegations and deputations to fisheries managers, councils, politicians and ministers, etc etc. I know 3 people in just one of these branches who put in over 20 hours each per week working for the recreational anglers, mostly behind the scenes and getting very little thanks. They do it because they see what is wrong and want to improve things for the next generation.

Unfortunately, the biggest problem in this state is not Sunfish but they sure are an easy/soft target for the lazy armchair critics. the major problem in this state is the fisheries managers who have persecuted the recreational fishing sector for the last 20 years, and the politicians who have given them free reign. They continue to pay lip service, and then treat anglers with contempt.

The Burns Inquiry is one example. It was raised by one previous poster who seemed to claim it was all Sunfish’s fault that the recommendations have not been carried out. Sunfish has been pushing for these to be implemented for years but has NO power to force these recommendations into law. It is the politicians who could do that, and unfortunately there has not been one with the guts to take it on since Tom Burns. As far as I have seen, there has only been one with enough guts to even comment on this forum. There have been none with the guts to make any firm commitment to policy for recreational fishing in Qld.

[PADDLES]

Hi Finga, i'd be thinking there's a lot of much less visible stuff going on in the background that is benifiting recreational anglers. The kid's fishing clinics would only be a very small part of their operation i would imagine. ie. unless you were involved in sunfish you probably would never know what they were doing to defend recreational angling in the backrooms of government.

[finga]

What are the websites can I check what Sunfish has done in the last 12 months?
How many fishing clinics have there been in, say, the last 12 months?
That sort of information should very easy to get.
I've looked but found didly squat.

Why can't Sunfish have their magazine viewable from the net?

What everyone has been saying that Sunfish does has been very broad in nature.

Mack's forever....ta for the information about the branches. I worked out that the individual branches seem to be the ones doing the majority of the educational and informative work. All from very little funding.
And if I read you right the branches could be called something else entirely different to Sunfish ie Sunfish-South Moreton could be called South East Queensland Angler's Association?? Is this right?

And you are right. Lack of communications make things more difficult then need be for a lot of situations. If some of the questions asked are answered then a lot of 'misunderstandings' could be squashed as quick as a wink.
The lack of information and apparent privacy is what makes me sceptical.

As for people getting involved or shut up....well I to get involved and to start with I wanted to see what Sunfish was all about when they had their conference in Brisbane a year or so ago.
The cost prohibited me from attending. Simple as that. From memory it was $150 for a 2 day seminar.
The cost would have prohibited many people who wanted to get involved to attend to see what 'the go was' with Sunfish..
Were minutes from that conference available on-line?
Is there any specific information available on what Sunfish has done available on the net so people may decide they're doing a good thing and want to be involved?

As for people offering alternatives or shut up....how can an alternative be offered if we don't know precisely what is going on?

All people seem to hear is what we hear in the media which mainly goes around the stuff ups that happen which mainly concern Barry.

[Dicko]

Agreed, Sunfish hasn't done a lot for me either, but we have to look at the other side of the coin as well. What are we really expecting for our 50c per year ?

[Mike Delisser]

What are the websites can I check what Sunfish has done in the last 12 months?
How many fishing clinics have there been in, say, the last 12 months?
That sort of information should very easy to get.
I've looked but found didly squat.

Why can't Sunfish have their magazine viewable from the net?

What everyone has been saying that Sunfish does has been very broad in nature.

Mack's forever....ta for the information about the branches. I worked out that the individual branches seem to be the ones doing the majority of the educational and informative work. All from very little funding.
And if I read you right the branches could be called something else entirely different to Sunfish ie Sunfish-South Moreton could be called South East Queensland Angler's Association?? Is this right?

And you are right. Lack of communications make things more difficult then need be for a lot of situations. If some of the questions asked are answered then a lot of 'misunderstandings' could be squashed as quick as a wink.
The lack of information and apparent privacy is what makes me sceptical.

As for people getting involved or shut up....well I to get involved and to start with I wanted to see what Sunfish was all about when they had their conference in Brisbane a year or so ago.
The cost prohibited me from attending. Simple as that. From memory it was $150 for a 2 day seminar.
The cost would have prohibited many people who wanted to get involved to attend to see what 'the go was' with Sunfish..
Were minutes from that conference available on-line?
Is there any specific information available on what Sunfish has done available on the net so people may decide they're doing a good thing and want to be involved?

As for people offering alternatives or shut up....how can an alternative be offered if we don't know precisely what is going on?

All people seem to hear is what we hear in the media which mainly goes around the stuff ups that happen which mainly concern Barry.

You know it was $50 to attend the Sunfish conference Finga, you've commented on that several times in the past and even mentioned that amount yourself 3 times in one of your own previous posts. All of your same questions have been answered many times in the past and all of your claims have been disproved in the past, it's almost like Ground Hog Day. Perhaps the last line in your last post reveals your true agenda here, is it to defame Barry Pollock? I've seen here in the past you've claimed that he's paid a salary for his Sunfish position, but the truth is he gives all his time as a volunteer. I've never met or spoken to Barry and I certainly don't agree with all of his actions, but I'm sure anyone who's been awarded the Order of Austalia for their services to recreational anglers is doing more than the average bloke to help our beloved pastime.

[finga]

Well blow me down. It was $50.
http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?156312-Sunfish-Conference/page2&highlight=sunfish+conference
My apologies. But still not economically feasible for a lot of people who may have wanted to be there.
How many people went?
Where can I see the final report? How much will that report cost me to view?

Please forgive me if I have not seen answers to my questions. I'm a simple person who needs simple answers.
How about outlining them in point form.
a) how do we see Sunfish's financials?
b) what has Sunfish done for me against the Jolly Green Giant?
c) how many kids fishing schools are there throughout the year that Sunfish sponsor and where were they?
d) How do we find out where they are and when so we may be able to help.
e) why is there no information regarding education or events on Sunfish's website seeing education is a key outcome for Sunfish?
That'll do for starters.
Ooops. Nearly forgot.
f) is it true that each 'branch' of Sunfish is not a true branch of Sunfish but a independent organisation that is just 'affiliated' with Sunfish and each branch organises the fishing schools with a little bit of financial help from Sunfish....the great?

And yes. Seeing I brought it up....why is it that Barry seems to be in the middle of each controversy that Sunfish seems to involve itself with?

[boney-leg]

Please forgive me if I have not seen answers to my questions. I'm a simple person who needs simple answers.


I'm confused ... have you emailed them your questions and not got a reply or are we just fishing here on the forum?

[Mike Delisser]

I'm confused ... have you emailed them your questions and not got a reply or are we just fishing here on the forum?

Don't be ridiculous boney, facts would only clowd the issue.

[krazyfisher]

i was involved with sunfish for 12 months, figured I wanted to help make a change but work got to busy and had to stop.... but in the 12 mths I attended 6 kids fishing avents myself, they help get blue cards for people so they could work with kids. they worked on the green zones and helped to get our ramps upgraded. I dont agree with them on alot of things but they do more for us than most of the people who complain about them. they have done more good than bad

[finga]

I'm confused ... have you emailed them your questions and not got a reply or are we just fishing here on the forum?
All the Sunfish experts are here so why not ask here?


Don't be ridiculous boney, facts would only clowd the issue.
Well what are the answers to my questions then?

[PADDLES]

hi finga, i don't think anyone here is classing themselves as a "sunfish expert" but what boney-leg is saying in sending off an email has a bit of merit, maybe even try to track down a meeting of your local sunfish group or association (obviously not one that costs $50) to ask about what it is they do.

the reality is that by coming on here and having a go at a bunch of guys who are volunteering their time to try and promote recreational angling in queensland (either successfully or unsuccessfully as the case may be) you aren't going to get a nice response from them, basic communication skills should be telling you that.

[PinHead]

Maybe I could clarify for some of the armchair experts/critics here. Just pick up any old Sunfish magazine or check the various websites and you could find this out for yourselves.

“Sunfish” is not just ONE organization.

Sunfish Queensland is ONE organization, which is an umbrella organization made up of several parts. It does receive funding from government. As far as I am aware this money funds one paid position only, at a salary of something like or not much more than an average secretary/PA. The remaining VERY limited funds [do your own calculations of the 50 cents out of 17 dollars PPV mentioned previously for the total funds out of about 3-4million total PPV]] is used for basic admin and specific projects such as Angler Education Clinics. As far as I can see, the rest of the people involved are all volunteers.
Whether you think they do any good at all, I find the previous comparison to Craig Thompson offensive.

However I do agree they are not proactive/militant enough, nor do they participate in forums like this enough to give the average fisher enough info to keep up to date on their actions. There are a number of other criticisms I have of Sunfish Qld, but none of them relate to the effort they put in, the volunteer hours they give, or the fact that, whether I agree with them or not, in most cases they are doing what they believe is best for recreational fishing in Qld. Some fresh blood/fresh eyes are probably warranted, but who will step up to the plate? Yes there are a few examples of seat warming and protecting a particular patch, as well as a SEQ focus, but as others have said, at least they are making an effort.

As an umbrella organization, Sunfish Queensland has organization members. For reasons unknown to me, Sunfish Queensland does not have individual members.

The members of Sunfish Queensland include various organizations such as ANSA, QAFCA, QGFA, AUFA, FFSAQ, and the Blue Fin Fishing Club. Many of the committee have a strong allegiance to QAFCA.

The rest of the membership of Sunfish Qld is made up of branches.

There are at least half a dozen Sunfish branches around the state. BUT these should not be called branches because they are separately incorporated groups ENTIRELY run by volunteers with NO govt funding [some funding is filtered through Sunfish Qld for fishing clinics]. They are affiliated with Sunfish Qld but are not beholden to Sunfish Qld. I understand that there are parts of Qld that do not have a Sunfish branch active in their region.

I have the utmost respect for these branches and the people in them. They do their own thing in their own areas and this includes various forums, fishing clinics, submissions on various issues, delegations and deputations to fisheries managers, councils, politicians and ministers, etc etc. I know 3 people in just one of these branches who put in over 20 hours each per week working for the recreational anglers, mostly behind the scenes and getting very little thanks. They do it because they see what is wrong and want to improve things for the next generation.

Unfortunately, the biggest problem in this state is not Sunfish but they sure are an easy/soft target for the lazy armchair critics. the major problem in this state is the fisheries managers who have persecuted the recreational fishing sector for the last 20 years, and the politicians who have given them free reign. They continue to pay lip service, and then treat anglers with contempt.

The Burns Inquiry is one example. It was raised by one previous poster who seemed to claim it was all Sunfish’s fault that the recommendations have not been carried out. Sunfish has been pushing for these to be implemented for years but has NO power to force these recommendations into law. It is the politicians who could do that, and unfortunately there has not been one with the guts to take it on since Tom Burns. As far as I have seen, there has only been one with enough guts to even comment on this forum. There have been none with the guts to make any firm commitment to policy for recreational fishing in Qld.

I cannot put what I really think about that statement as it could lead to me facing legal action..BUT..Sunfish HAS NOT pushed the proposals of the Burns Inquiry..they have pushed their own agenda.
Have you read the Burns Inquiry? Have you seen who was on the panel for the Burns Inquiry?
I had some respect for one or two of the members on that panel..one was a top comp fisho in the SQAFCA comps back in the day..but now..pfffft...totally lost my confidence and respect.

As I am not a member of Sunfish and never will be, I really don't care what they do..as long as they realise they do not represent me in any way shape or form.

[charleville]

the reality is that by coming on here and having a go at a bunch of guys who are volunteering their time to try and promote recreational angling in queensland (either successfully or unsuccessfully as the case may be) you aren't going to get a nice response from them, basic communication skills should be telling you that.



A couple of responses from me if I may, please, Paddles.


I actually don't want anyone to promote recreational angling in Queensland. There is no benefit to me that I can think of by adding even more people to the hordes who are to be found at popular fishing spots at particular times. The boating and tackle industry might want that for commercial reasons but there are no lifestyle reasons that I, as a regular angler, would want it. Nor, if you think about it, should any fisherman who is struggling to catch a fish where once there was plenty. Likewise, with less anglers, the greenies will have less to worry about and leave the few remaining of us alone.


Above all else, I don't want any government monies at all promoting the growth of more people fishing. Let the money go to better boating facilities such as boat ramps but not as handouts to any activity that tries to get more people fishing. If governments want to spend money that encourages a healthy lifestyle, let the money go to childrens' sport, especially the less popular, less well funded but active sports like hockey. The cost per kid would probably be a lot less than for fishing and the physical benefits in fighting obesity would be much greater.


Much of the heat in this thread has been defensiveness about communications with Sunfish. So let me share some learnings from the experience of many years in corporate senior management about that very topic. By now, the Sunfish guys should have responded directly to this thread. For all I know, they may have responded in the posts herein but not directly and honestly indicating who they are and certainly not without defensiveness and indignation.


Being able to handle criticism well from a hostile set of stakeholders is the sign of excellence in management talent. The talented ones will recognise, maybe even with some surprise but never with indignation and defensiveness, that something is wrong in the minds of their constituency and be willing to seek to understand and research and, if necessary, rectify the concerns of their constituency.


So at a very practical level, what that would mean is that someone representing the senior levels of Sunfish should arrive on this thread and acknowledge that there appear to be some concerns expressed and summarise them in a post here as they appear to be and then to ask - that is, ask and not defensively argue - if they have the summary of the concerns correct.


Such a post will immediately take heat out of the discussion because someone with authority is paying respect to the concerns emanating from their constituency. Generally, people don't like complaining about anything very publicly. It is stressful and much can be gained at a psychological level with them and many brownie points won, if their concerns are acknowledged respectfully.


It is likely that some confirmation or clarification of the concerns will arise in the subsequent posts.


The Sunfish guy could then propose some ways forward to alleviate those concerns and then seek feedback on whether his proposals have merit in the eyes of Ausfishers.


Again, there may be some healthy discussion emerging in the thread and perhaps some useful other suggestions might arise.


Trust me fellas, if you are in a corporation or fronting on behalf of an organisation of any sort, this is the time tested way of handling constituency crankiness and frustration, not by resorting to the raw emotional responses of defensiveness, self righteous indignation and name calling as the less gifted negotiators amongst us will sink to. You will go from zero to hero instantly taking this approach. Trust me on this one. :)


Charlie takes no credit for this approach. When Charlie was making a buffoon of himself as a middle manager in defensively and arrogantly handling business constituent concerns in the mid 1980's, it was the coaching from the very talented Professor Charles Margerison of the University of Queensland Business School that taught Charlie much about turning around hostile audiences to a point where anger flips over to become praise and optimism within the space of one business meeting.


If, on the other hand, the major government funded lobbying body representing fishos in Queensland is not monitoring major online fishing forums such as Ausfish on a daily basis, they have already sunk well below the Plimsoll line and their committee is carrying far too much ballast.





.

[PinHead]

Bruce..if senior management listens to the beef of every pleb below them they will achieve nothing. Senior Management must make decisions and move forward based on those decisions.
I don't hear the Governor of the Reserve Bank listening to every mortgage holder saying..no more interest rate rises.

Th biggest danger for any manager is to listen to every person under their umbrella...the danger is sinking to the lowest common denominator.
The danger is that management got to that position by their own resources and intelligence..by listening to too many others they will invariably end up being at the lowest common denominator.

[TheRealAndy]

Well blow me down. It was $50.
http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?156312-Sunfish-Conference/page2&highlight=sunfish+conference
My apologies. But still not economically feasible for a lot of people who may have wanted to be there.
How many people went?
Where can I see the final report? How much will that report cost me to view?

Please forgive me if I have not seen answers to my questions. I'm a simple person who needs simple answers.
How about outlining them in point form.
a) how do we see Sunfish's financials?
b) what has Sunfish done for me against the Jolly Green Giant?
c) how many kids fishing schools are there throughout the year that Sunfish sponsor and where were they?
d) How do we find out where they are and when so we may be able to help.
e) why is there no information regarding education or events on Sunfish's website seeing education is a key outcome for Sunfish?
That'll do for starters.
Ooops. Nearly forgot.
f) is it true that each 'branch' of Sunfish is not a true branch of Sunfish but a independent organisation that is just 'affiliated' with Sunfish and each branch organises the fishing schools with a little bit of financial help from Sunfish....the great?

And yes. Seeing I brought it up....why is it that Barry seems to be in the middle of each controversy that Sunfish seems to involve itself with?

I went to the sunfish forum, thats where I had the blue with Barry and Scott! IF you want to see the outcomes, email Judy Lynne judylynne@sunfishqld.com.au

If you want to see the financials, become a member and either attend the mettings or request a copy of the minutes and treasurers report.

If you want to know about what sunfish is doing go here: http://www.sunfishqld.com.au/ and read the newsletters, the latest being here: http://sunfish.realitysoftware.com.au/getmagazine.php?year=2011&month=6

[finga]

hi finga, i don't think anyone here is classing themselves as a "sunfish expert" but what boney-leg is saying in sending off an email has a bit of merit, maybe even try to track down a meeting of your local sunfish group or association (obviously not one that costs $50) to ask about what it is they do.

the reality is that by coming on here and having a go at a bunch of guys who are volunteering their time to try and promote recreational angling in queensland (either successfully or unsuccessfully as the case may be) you aren't going to get a nice response from them, basic communication skills should be telling you that.
Paddles. Mate. There is no Sunfish mob within cooee of me.
If people are willing to sprook about the merits of Sunfish and tell us of all the good that they have done then they should be able to answer a few simple questions which, when left unanswered, leave people feeling that there is something to hide.
It seems that there are plenty of times that Sunfish are encrusted with controversy such as in the latest episode with Barry as outlined in the news section here.

I have asked pretty simple questions and there have been no clear, concise answers just innuendo's and generalised statements as to what is happening.
How hard is it to find out how many kids clinics have been run in the last 12 months?
If those who sprook how good SUnfish is and seem to know what is happening then it should only be a phone call to get the numbers and where they're going to happen and problem solved. Question answered once and for all.

So I took Boney's advice and went to the horses mouth so to speak....I rang the South Moreton branch of Sunfish seeing they're the closest.
Very nice man on the phone. A very nice man indeed and it was a pleasure to have a yarn with him.
Kids clinics..... 2 have happened in roughly the last 12 months. The Lifestyle fishing day and the Take a kid Fishing day. The Lifestyle fishing day was funded by the QLD Government and the Take a Kid Fishing Day was funded by the DPI&F.
Apparently both were organised by a lone member of QAFCA.(Queensland Amateur Fishing Clubs Association Inc)

About the only clear answers have been from 2 people who have attended the fishing clinics. The only real number is 6 fishing clinics. I would like to ask some questions about who organised and paid for those clinics.
From what I can understand the organising was done by the separate organisations who Sunfish 'Central' calls their branches and the funding seems to come from another source in the two clinics that are mentioned above.
How many clinics does Sunfish (the central body and not the 'branches') organise and fund?

From past experience the only time people beat about the bush instead of answering direct questions is a) they don't know the answer, and b) they're hiding something.
I'm hoping the answer is (a) in the case of the questions I have asked.

[charleville]

Bruce..if senior management listens to the beef of every pleb below them they will achieve nothing. Senior Management must make decisions and move forward based on those decisions.
I don't hear the Governor of the Reserve Bank listening to every mortgage holder saying..no more interest rate rises.

Th biggest danger for any manager is to listen to every person under their umbrella...the danger is sinking to the lowest common denominator.
The danger is that management got to that position by their own resources and intelligence..by listening to too many others they will invariably end up being at the lowest common denominator.


This is not what I am saying, Greg.

It is not that the opinions of eveyone have to be heeded by management but it may mean that the evidence of their existence suggests that there are communications issues in regard of directions of the business.


None of this undermines strong management. It strengthens it if the troops understand why things are as they are.




.

[Macks forever]

So please Pinhead, and others, please tell us what it is that you propose should be done?

Specifically who it is in power that should do it?

What sort of representational structure do you want?

If you don't want any representational structure, what have you done that has changed anything?

What are you going to do in the next 6 months that is going to change anything?

I am not the chosen one, but it would be good to see positive constructive advice, rather than negative destructive criticism.

[PADDLES]

hi charlie, i respect your position with regards to not wanting representation of any form by sunfish, that is your personal choice. and please don't misunderstand me referring to the promotion of recreational angling to government as necessarilly being the promotion of recreational angling to the public. i am more interested in an organisation defending recreational angling from a government that is increasingly not only ignoring recreational angling as a passtime, but not even recognising recreational angling as a legitimate activity for locals and a tourism activity for visitors. and i agree with you entirely, they really should be monitoring and responding to comment on this forum (and others) as this forum does have a membership that seems to represent a very large proportion of queensland anglers.

good stuff finga, i hope you found some of the answers you were looking for by giving them a buzz.

i raised the question earlier and Macks has raised it again, what are the real alternatives? no representation at all?

[charleville]

I recall hearing in a Radio National program, a few months ago, about research into the dynamics of online forums, worldwide.

It seems that many of the really heated debates go down the path of someone's starting to make comparisons with Hitler and by that stage the discussion is off the rails, rationality is lost and the posters who use the Hitler word lose their credibility in the debate. I reckon that we often see a similar twist on Aussie debates because before long someone will start pulling out the old cliches about Aussies having died in overseas wars to defend the rights to blah...blah...blah.

So far we have not gone down that track in this debate albeit there has been a bit of self righteous indignation expressed by some. So there is still hope for some reasoned discussion.

Answering Paddles' question about what is the real alternative is hopefully where this discussion can become most fruitful otherwise it will degenerate into name calling and the self righteousness often exhibited by the logic challenged amongst us.



.

[finga]

Well I went to see the people who helped organise the last kids fishing day out here and Sunfish did provide some assistance but they think that was all through Sunfish South Moreton which is not Sunfish (the central organisation who I'm asking about what they do).
This just confirms what was told to me last night.
A lot of local business's also provided sponsorship for the local kids day like the local RSL and a butcher provided all the snags etc etc.
The local fish stocking association (who I'm a member of) also provided a huge amount of assistance to the kids day

I've also rung the DPI&F about what they provide for these fishing clinics around the state.
In short the answer the DPI&F have done nothing nor have they provided anything.
Education QLD have been doing the kids fishing clinics since November 2005 through their Outdoors Programme.

So what does the central organisation of Sunfish (not the branches as the branches are another independent organisations who seem to be only affiliated with the central Sunfish ) do these clinics?

It seems to me Sunfish (central) are basking in the glory of the hard work of many others.
But I'm sceptical..........

[PinHead]

So please Pinhead, and others, please tell us what it is that you propose should be done? Don't care

Specifically who it is in power that should do it? ditto

What sort of representational structure do you want? ditto

If you don't want any representational structure, what have you done that has changed anything? nothing

What are you going to do in the next 6 months that is going to change anything? nothing

I am not the chosen one, but it would be good to see positive constructive advice, rather than negative destructive criticism.

and here we go again..if someone disagrees trot out the old line..what have you done? simple answer is..sweet bugger all. I want to go fishing to relax and not get involved in political mumbo jumbo and he said she said..I cop that all week long with engineers who have very little idea of reality.

So..in case you missed what I have said previously:

Sunfish state they represent all rec anglers..that is a blatant lie..they do not represent me in any way shape or form no matter what they think they do.
I don't care if Sunfish gets PPV monies, I don't care if Sunfish run educational sessions for juniors.

I do care that they make ludicrious claims..5000 members from Bluefins..Enzo Drovandro would have palpitations over that claim (dunno if he is still with us)..it is primarily a social club and pokies club at Inala..sure have come a long way since I had associations with them and good luck to them.

RACQ claim they are the peak representative motoring body but they claim they only represent their members not all motorists.

The Burns Inquiry made some great recommendations..Ed Casey adopted these...yet where are they now? Gone and forgotten!!!!

YET..certain people who were on the board of that inquiry and were in favour of those recommendations seem to have forgotten them in their current roles. That I object to.

So..in summary..Sunfish can do whatever they want but stop making bullshit claims about who they represent. They are way off the mark in that respect.

[Macks forever]

Pinhead's answer to the questions says a lot. And yet he asks endless and repeated questions of nobody in particular and expects everybody to answer them, as well as make wild/inaccurate/baseless statements.

And he says he does not want to "get involved in political mumbo jumbo and he said she said.." yet that is exactly what he is perpetuating.

I asked the questions that I did in a positive move to try to elicit some positive suggestions. Alas the same old negativity.

It is not my place to answer on behalf of Sunfish but I believe Sunfish is designated by the Qld Government as the Peak Body representing rec fishers. As long as the government does that then technically Sunfish does represent all rec fishers in Qld, like it or not.

FYI I don't agree with the position of Sunfish on a few issues, so I go to see the politicians and fisheries managers and put my alternate view and tell them why I disagree with Sunfish.

The Burns Inquiry did make some great recommendaations. But again Pinhead got it wrong. Ed Casey DID NOT adopt these. He said "That is a nice report. Thankyou. I will put it on the shelf and dust it off when and if I feel like it". He had the opportunity to put them all into government policy and refused. He, and successive governments then proceded to cherrypick the easy ones and ignore the hard recommendations.

I hate repeating myself, but it seems that some people don't listen the first time. I know for a fact that Sunfish, and others, have been pursuing the outstanding recommendations of the Burns Inquiry. I know this because I have too, so I guess you can blame me too because I have failed to make the recommendations happen?

Again I hate to repeat myself, but the only people who can implement those recommendations, and have failed to do so, are the fisheries managers, and the politicians on both sides. It is time to lay the blame where it is most deserved.

[PinHead]

good grief...I wish some people would read all the thread..way back in post number 7 I said "you can ear bash your local MP over raods etc..same as i earbash mine over fisheries amongst other things."

And in case you missed it:

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/uploadedFiles/common/policies/Fishing%20-%20Recreational%20-%20Image4.pdf

Notice it says under the new Act..so the Act was implemented..in case you want to have a read :

Fisheries Act 1994. http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/F/FisherA94.pdf


amd this gem: " I believe Sunfish is designated by the Qld Government as the Peak Body representing rec fishers. As long as the government does that then technically Sunfish does represent all rec fishers in Qld, like it or not."

Sunfish states they are apolitical yet you state they dance to the Govt's puppet strings..cannot have it both ways.Anyway..don't bag me without putting up a complete CV of your activities.
No, don't bother..don't really care.I have asked bugger all questions..I have made it quite clear I don't care what Sunfish do except stating they represent me..they do not..is that too hard to understand.Lots of other people obviously want to be part of and support Sunfish..if that gives them a does of the warm and fuzzies then good on them.You are correct..the fisheries managers and pollies are to blame..therefore what is thew point of having Sunfiah at all when the Govt just does what ot wants..maybe better to just disband it if it cannot do anything as the so called peak representative body.

Anyway..enough of my opinions on this subject..I have stated where I stand...and nothing will change that.

[Macks forever]

Yep. The Fisheries Act was implemented. Quite familiar with it actually. But what is the point you were trying to make with the links, Pinhead? What did I miss?

If you ear bash your local pollies over fisheries issues then you ARE doing something. And genuinely good on you. But why did you say you have done nothing and will do nothing?

Also please show everyone where I said - "you state they dance to the Govt's puppet strings." I said no such thing. Your words, not mine.

I do not need to put up a complete CV of my activities to have the right to point out your incorrect statements and misleading information.

At least we have agreed who is really to blame - the fisheries managers and the politicians. However, I believe the situation for rec anglers would have been A LOT WORSE than it is now if there had not been a number of people and organizations [including but not exclusively Sunfish] working hard and badgering the fisheries managers and politicians over the last couple of decades.

[finga]

I went to the sunfish forum, thats where I had the blue with Barry and Scott! IF you want to see the outcomes, email Judy Lynne judylynne@sunfishqld.com.au

If you want to see the financials, become a member and either attend the mettings or request a copy of the minutes and treasurers report.

If you want to know about what sunfish is doing go here: http://www.sunfishqld.com.au/ and read the newsletters, the latest being here: http://sunfish.realitysoftware.com.au/getmagazine.php?year=2011&month=6
I sent Judy an email for some information a day or so ago. We'll see from what happens from that.

I think I'll be joining South-Moreton Sunfish the next time I'm in Brisbane to see the other details.
At least I'll know my meagre donation will go towards things like The Pin Clean Up and the Kids days.
Sunfish's AGM is coming up very soon too. I don't think I'll be in Brisbane by then but if I am I might have a gander.

I think the only reason I get my goat up is the claims that Sunfish (central) make on their website and the lack of information and the little misleading claims that are on their website which were mentioned by another member/s.
Education is but one key facet of work that Sunfish (central) say they're involved with but their education page is blank and it seems that the sub branches are the ones doing the hard yards with education.
What about the other facets of work Sunfish (central) say are key components of their work?
It seems to me that the central "Sunfish" are basking in the glory of the hard work the other associations that share the Sunfish name are doing.
Only way to see what is really happening is been involved I suppose.

Personally I think there is good reason to have at least 2 bodies that represent those anglers that want to be represented.
A single body will always be prone to 'controversy' whether it be warranted or not.
The present controversy involving snapper bag limits and requirements is a prime example. One bloke went to a meeting. What happened in that meeting?? If at least two blokes attended well the outcome may have been different.
More then one body would alleviate this and they might be able to communicate better with different spectrum's of the community a fair bit easier.

[FNQCairns]

I don't like sunfish, no lasting good comes from them, i know they had a make-over a while ago after their former colors where shown brightly so....reinvent with simple government appealing spin...trouble is, has anyone Angler ever read their charter??

Seriously their charter speaks volumes, it's not about the sport it's about the money and position, of coarse they will mouth different just like during RAP etc but their charter spells it out plain and simple.... pandering to government ideology is their aim....the anglers come way last...an organization simply cannot look after the grass roots and keep that charter.

Sunfish is simply lucky the government sponsored environmental zealot attacks on anglers has calmed down after them and sunfishes resounding wins of a few years past in decreasing angler amenity/ access and choice, otherwise sunfish would have by now and again been forced as per charter to side with government against anglers to keep their favored position.

Time will come again.

[Black_Rat]

Sunfish and Unions are the same.

In principle there great, but on delivery they fail ! and fail ! and fail ! and fail !

Full of shit !!! No way to sugar coat it really :-?

Both are full of shit ! ;)

Happy for one of them to prove me wrong ? ...............................................

[PinHead]

Yep. The Fisheries Act was implemented. Quite familiar with it actually. But what is the point you were trying to make with the links, Pinhead? What did I miss?

If you ear bash your local pollies over fisheries issues then you ARE doing something. And genuinely good on you. But why did you say you have done nothing and will do nothing?

Also please show everyone where I said - "you state they dance to the Govt's puppet strings." I said no such thing. Your words, not mine.

I do not need to put up a complete CV of my activities to have the right to point out your incorrect statements and misleading information.

At least we have agreed who is really to blame - the fisheries managers and the politicians. However, I believe the situation for rec anglers would have been A LOT WORSE than it is now if there had not been a number of people and organizations [including but not exclusively Sunfish] working hard and badgering the fisheries managers and politicians over the last couple of decades.

and there is a piece of incorrect and misleading waffle if ever there was any written.

Thanks Damo..you summed up the situation perfectly.

[finga]

Thanks for the heads up about their charter FNQ dude.
I wonder how much rig-moral it'll take to get a copy of that sucker?

:) Damo. You definitely don't beat about the bush do you. I love it. Don't ever change :)

[Macks forever]

I don't like sunfish, no lasting good comes from them, i know they had a make-over a while ago after their former colors where shown brightly so....reinvent with simple government appealing spin...trouble is, has anyone Angler ever read their charter??

Seriously their charter speaks volumes, it's not about the sport it's about the money and position, of coarse they will mouth different just like during RAP etc but their charter spells it out plain and simple.... pandering to government ideology is their aim....the anglers come way last...an organization simply cannot look after the grass roots and keep that charter.


Sunfish is simply lucky the government sponsored environmental zealot attacks on anglers has calmed down after them and sunfishes resounding wins of a few years past in decreasing angler amenity/ access and choice, otherwise sunfish would have by now and again been forced as per charter to side with government against anglers to keep their favored position.

Time will come again.

I thought I better find out about this Charter. But I couldn't find it. Could FNQCairns post a copy?

I did a search of the various websites. A little frustrating.... Sunfish Queensland website www.sunfishqld.com.au (http://www.sunfishqld.com.au) is inaccessible for some reason unknown. There were a lot of Google search links to the site on various subjects but alas, no access. Also there was a site called www.sunfishqueensland.org (http://www.sunfishqueensland.org) which was under construction but seemed to be for Sunfish North Qld.

The Sunfish South Moreton website http://www.sunfishsouthmoreton.com.au seemed quite simple and informative. They seem to have a focus mainly on Junior angler education and cleaning up the Pin. Nothing wrong with that as far as I am concerned. Nothing about a Charter or specific actions in relation to fisheries management.

The Sunfish Fraser Coast website http://www.sunfish.com.au was the most informative and quite professional. It also gave information on Sunfish Qld. Lot of stuff going on there apparently but I have only copied the 2 bits that I though might be relevant for this thread in relation to Charter etc.

About Sunfish Fraser Coast

Just like you, we are frustrated by the government’s treatment of recreational fishing as an insignificant part of the local economy and social structure. Decisions are not made to benefit recreational fishing, but often hurt it.
Fish stocks have declined significantly & the government refuses to acknowledge it. Worse still they often blame recreational fishers for it.

A fisherman [recreational or commercial] with a hook and line cannot possibly compete with 600 metres of commercial fishing net, yet legislation gives the nets priority.

Sunfish Fraser Coast was formed in 1996 to support local recreational fishing and ensure that our popular pastime is protected for the future. Local anglers need to be heard & have a say in changes and management decisions that affect their lifestyle. Sunfish Fraser Coast is affiliated with Sunfish Queensland, which deals with the issues that affect the whole state. Sunfish Fraser Coast mainly acts on local issues that are important in our region.

Recreational fishing plays a vital role in the social and economic environment of the Fraser Coast region. Recent research indicates that there are in excess of 75,000 fishers locally who contribute in excess of $100 million to the regional economy. Another $100 million can be added to this via capital ownership associated with boats, fishing tackle, camping equipment and vehicles.
Sunfish Fraser Coast is engaged in many important decision making processes including consultation with the general public and various community groups to ascertain the needs and aspirations of our local recreational fishers. These can then be submitted to the government and local councils in a manner in which they will be heard & acted on.

Sunfish Fraser Coast is involved with numerous Government advisory bodies where the future direction and management of recreational fishing is discussed & decided on.

Specific issues achieved in recent years include –

· The banning of trawling for winter whiting
· The new boat ramp at Gatakers Bay Pt Vernon
· The banning of ring netting of spotted mackerel
· Rod holders on the Urangan pier
· Banning of commercial netting for tailor on Fraser Island
· The erection of fish cleaning stations at Burrum Heads the Urangan Pier[2] and River Heads

Apart from the positive changes that we can all see, one of the most important functions Sunfish serves, and which is never seen, is the prevention of removal of more of our rights, which is an undercurrent in most new legislation. Sunfish gets in at the discussion phase to ensure that negative effects on anglers never see the light of day.

Future issues include further restrictions in relation to bag and size limits, no fishing areas, green zones & marine parks, establishment of Net Free areas and the creation of Recreational Only Fishing Areas [ROFAs], artificial reefs, recreational fishing licences and the improvement of boating infrastructure and facilities.
Other activities Sunfish Fraser Coast conducts regularly include:-

· Teaching children in the basics of recreational fishing with the popular “Take a Kid Fishing day”
· Angler Education classes & family fishing days
· Assisting anglers with disabilities by supplying motorised fishing reels and special coaching clinics
· A new initiative teaching adults, in particularly retirees, how to fish around Hervey Bay

Don’t complain while doing nothing. Make a difference!
JOIN SUNFISH (http://www.sunfish.com.au/pdf/applicationform2010.pdf)


About Sunfish QLD

SUNFISH QLD was formed in 1993 out of the Queensland Sport and Recreational Fishing Council (QSRFC) which had been operational for some 20 years prior to that.

SUNFISH Qld is at arms length from Government and is A POLITICAL

Sunfish Qld is the peak recreational fishing group in Queensland. It represents our membership of 45,000 individual members and consults widely with the 840 000 recreational anglers in Queensland. Sunfish Qld endeavours to represent their interests through our structure which includes all the major Statewide fishing organisations such as:


Queensland Game Fishing Association (QGFA),
Australian National Sportfishing Association (ANSA),
Australian Underwater Federation Queensland (AUFQ),
Queensland Amateur Fishing Clubs Association (QAFCA),
Freshwater Fishing and Stocking Association of Queensland (FFSAQ), and,
Blue Fins Fishing Club (over 5,000 members). Additionally SUNFISH QLD has Regional Branches from Cairns to the Gold Coast. Most importantly, we have a democratically elected Executive.

Sunfish Queensland Recreational Fishing Policy

Sunfish has the following beliefs and values:

Recreational fishing is an industry and activity of sporting, economic and social value. Sustainable Environmental values are imperative to the recreational fishing experience. The sustainability of this State’s fishing resources is the responsibility of every individual. SUNFISH represents the interests of the Recreational Fishing Industry with vigour, equity & accountability

The Sunfish Mission is to "Ensure quality recreational fishing". In pursuit of that mission Sunfish has three goals.

1.Be an effective representative lobby group for recreational fishing.
2. To have a community well informed on fishing & the issues through education & public awareness.
3.Fisheries sustainability through community participation in planning, research & management Political parties must have a recreational fishing policy within a wider fishing industry policy so that the State’s recreational fishers can assess outcomes and their benefits to recreational fishers and use that in their decision on how to exercise their vote.

In this context Sunfish has prepared a list of outcomes it sees as desirable for inclusion in recreational fishing policy.

SUNFISH Qld also recognises the need to co-exist with a sustainable commercial saltwater fishery provided it is well managed & the cultural rights of indigenous fishers using traditional fishing methods.
Visit Sunifsh QLD Website (http://www.sunfishqld.com.au/).


I was unable to find websites for the other branches of Sunfish but I did find a lot of interesting reading on the net about issues in regional Qld that involved Sunfish Branches, especially in the Mackay region. I did not search for the state associations that make up the Sunfish Qld membership, such as QAFCA, ANSA, Bluefin Fishing club, etc to see what they are doing.

[Macks forever]

http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Macks forever http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=1315119#post1315119)
Yep. The Fisheries Act was implemented. Quite familiar with it actually. But what is the point you were trying to make with the links, Pinhead? What did I miss?

If you ear bash your local pollies over fisheries issues then you ARE doing something. And genuinely good on you. But why did you say you have done nothing and will do nothing?

Also please show everyone where I said - "you state they dance to the Govt's puppet strings." I said no such thing. Your words, not mine.

I do not need to put up a complete CV of my activities to have the right to point out your incorrect statements and misleading information.

At least we have agreed who is really to blame - the fisheries managers and the politicians. However, I believe the situation for rec anglers would have been A LOT WORSE than it is now if there had not been a number of people and organizations [including but not exclusively Sunfish] working hard and badgering the fisheries managers and politicians over the last couple of decades.



and there is a piece of incorrect and misleading waffle if ever there was any written.

Thanks Damo..you summed up the situation perfectly.

I can only ask Pinhead to again please clarify what he is talking about specifically? What is it that is incorrect and misleading waffle?

Firstly, I asked Pinhead to explain why he put in the links he did - one to a press release from Ed Casey in 1994 and the other to the Fisheries Act. I was genuinely asking for clarification as I had no idea about the point he was trying to make. I still don't.

Secondly, I paid him a compliment for actually ear bashing the pollies. As I said, genuinely good on him. I simply could not figure out why he previously said he does nothing and would do nothing. I still do not understand why he said that.

Thirdly I asked Pinhead to show everyone his source for a quote he attributed to me which was simply not true. Personally I find it annoying when people misquote me, but I find it offensive when they actually make up their own words, and then tell the world that I said them.

Also I noted where I believed we agreed on something - who was really to blame - the fisheries managers and politicians..... I thought we did agree on that.... sorry if I misconstrued what he said previously.

And lastly I stated what I believe. I still believe it.

[TheRealAndy]

Macks Forever, would you care to enlighten us as to who you are?

[Macks forever]

Hi Andy.

Sorry, for a number of reasons, not at this time.

Suffice to say that I am someone who has been involved in trying to get a better deal for rec fishers in Qld for nearly 20 years. I have probably spent more of my own time and my own money pursuing that outcome than 99.9% of rec anglers in Qld. You can take my word for that or choose to disregard it as you see fit.

In that time I have argued a lot with Sunfish, and I do not always see eye to eye with them. But I have also seen some of the outcomes that have been affected by them and others. Not many recently I must admit... But as I said in a previous post, I do believe that rec fishers in Qld would be a lot worse off it there was nobody arguing on their behalf. More of our rights would have been stripped away. Again take my word for it or disregard it as you see fit.

Some of the outcomes I do not agree with either, but I have read a lot of Sunfish's submissions on various issues that I have been involved with, and have at times been in the same room arguing the same points. Apart from them not being militant enough, IMHO, I have agreed 'in general' with 'most' of what they have been pushing. I have also tried to change their view on some issues. Sometimes with success. My intent is not to get into a pedantic argument about any particular issue here.

I have also seen the amount of time and effort that goes into lobbying on behalf of rec fishers [not referring specifically to Sunfish], the lack of gratitude from the average angler, the criticism without construction [armchair critics], as well as the lack of understanding, or desire to understand, the intricacies of a fishery and trying to change govt policy and Qld fisheries bias.

Most of all I have seen, and felt myself on numerous occasions, the total devastation and demoralization [you can feel this in Dayoo's posts for example] that happens when the politicians and bureaucrats [DERM, the old EPA, DEEDI, Qld Fisheries, the old QFMA, politicians of both sides etc etc] pull out of commitments, change the rules and do back room deals after all the logical submissions and discussions have been considered.

Cheers
Macks

[PinHead]

MF..I ain't going over this any more..be offended or otherwise I don't really care. It is obvious you have alterior motives, you come on here and waffle on all things concerning fish management and nothing else fishing related.

In case you do not understand..SUNFISH SUCKS.

[chris69]

As far as im concerned all sunfish has done is bring in a lot of restrictions by complaining about the profesional fisherman,ban the beam trawlers were did they think the bait prawns were coming from ,thats right some bait company will import prawns with white spot disease , all ready happened, lets ban the netters , wheres the mullet gut for the bream fisherman and the flesh that comes from the fish for bait and food and the frames for the crabers and where did sunfish think the fresh squid was comeing from thats right the trawlers that they banned and i suppose the pilchards just jump into blocks for the tailor fisherman as well and not from someone that earns a liveing and pays for the privelige to do so, ive offten woundered how they would feel if there lively hoods were treatend by a group that does not like what there doing and put the shoe on the other foot.

At the boat ramp one day i saw a local sunfish rep bribie and asked him what he caught he said nothing should ban the netters he said, well i caught fish 7 of them 4bream and 3 flathead , if he wants to sit on anchor and not get a bite or a fish then start blaming someone else because he cant catch a fish well what more can i say , this was my only experence with someone from sunfish , i no that just one member does not represent the rest of sunfish but i think there all tared with the same brush , but ive known there pollicies for years as a pro and as a recreational fisher, they might have done some good in some respects like putting in cleaning stations that stink and are unsanertary to clean any fish on at my local ramp and it was good that some rod holders were placed on a jetty, but have been a lot of trouble for the rest of it by not thinking throught things to the very end of what there doing and just setting there own agender to get there own way and say that they represent the recreational fisherman well they dont repesent me and never have and never will , well thats what sunfish has done for me i dont like them either.

[finga]

So what is Sunfish doing about this??
http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?178723-Rec-anglers-rogered-again.-MBMP-arti-s&p=1315946#post1315946

They should be more outraged then Phill. They're supposed to be representing 840,000 of us and be outraged for us all.

[Fitzy]

Interesting comments from Barry Pollock (Sunfish Chair) on 16 September


11. AUSFISH.
Some Sunfish members may have noted the malicious comments and other dubious posts about Sunfish and its Chairman, and other people on the AUSFISH forum. The Sunfish Management Committee is very reluctant that Sunfish should respond on a social site that is more about entertainment and ego-tripping than responsible fisheries management. All policies of Sunfish, including our submissions on fisheries management reviews are done by an inclusive process whereby all members and regional branches can have an input. Sunfish wishes to continue to be a responsible and reputable representative of recreational fishing in Queensland.

Well Barry, since you think Ausfish is all about ego-tripping & entertainment, you have just potentially alienated yourself from several thousand more recreational anglers in Qld.
I personally take offence to your comments; QED there are many many Ausfish members who have dedicated alot of effort to "responsible fisheries management" and lobbying on behalf of recreational fishing not only in Qld, but Australia wide.
And, I know the owners of Ausfish themselves have long been avid supporters of many initiatives to help the lot of recreational fishing. If you haven't annoyed them to the point the word sunfish gets put onto a "naught word list", try talking to them to seek support for your causes instead of rubbishing their website via your membership email network.
Get with the times Barry, the internet & social networking sites such as Ausfish are here to stay & growing daily, shit can it all you like man, but you will get lost in the prop wash if you don't engage via this type of media.

Garry Fitzgerald

[charleville]

"The Sunfish Management Committee is very reluctant that Sunfish should respond on a social site that is more about entertainment and ego-tripping than responsible fisheries management."



Gee - that is pulling the shutters down, isn't it? :o


It is hard to have much confidence in an outfit that wants to bury its head in the sand like that. :-?




.

[Shawn 66]

There is the answer to your question Scott (Finga). Sunfish have managed to accomplish something. Unfortunately , I fear the thing they have accomplished is to p!ss a fair portion of the forum off.
Shawn

[finga]

Thanks Fitzy. I think.
Well Mike. You wanted to know how to communicate with the average fisho.
I'm afraid Barry has figured it out.
Bush telegraph combined with the internet and information can be distributed quick as a flash.

So much for representing recreational anglers when you won't communicate with them but degrade them. Especially when it seems that the vast majority of anglers are not members of clubs or associations etc.

I would like to know what the malicious posts were.
Constructive criticisms is just one way in which people (or organisations) should grow into better beings.....but only if they are willing to accept the criticism and change.

Arrogance (for dummies like us recreational anglers): a sense of one's own importance that shows itself in a proud and insulting way
(http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=arrogance)

[Basstones]

"The Sunfish Management Committee is very reluctant that Sunfish should respond on a social site that is more about entertainment and ego-tripping than responsible fisheries management."



Gee - that is pulling the shutters down, isn't it? :o


It is hard to have much confidence in an outfit that wants to bury its head in the sand like that. :-?




.
It's an absolute joke.

I've been fishing for years and only recently started getting in to the online side. Not once before I found Ausfish had I even heard of Sunfish, and even since discovering their existence i've been underwhelmed. I want to do my bit, and i'm not content with how all fisheries decisions are being made, but statements like that one above don't make me want to contribute my time to Sunfish.

If they can't at least recognise one of the largest online fishing communities, that has a statewide (and well beyond) audience and some very well informed and respected members without a comment like above then it doesn't exactly seem like we are on the same side does it?

[rayken1938]

To put it bluntly .
If you dont like what they are doing join up and bring about change
otherwise
SHUT UP.
Cheers
Ray

[finga]

To put it bluntly .
If you dont like what they are doing join up and bring about change
otherwise
SHUT UP.
Cheers
Ray
Does that mean we have to also join the Labor Party to talk about problems the Labor Party are having at a Federal and State level at the moment? They're meant to represent us.
Troubles with the Liberals?? Join them too.
Troubles with the Greens?? Join them while the cheque book is out I suppose.

If an organisation is meant to represent the general populous then they should be listening to the general populous.
Sunfish has charged itself as the peak body to represent recreational anglers. We did not charge them with that duty...did we??
There's a fair few individuals here that sit fair bang in the middle of the group of people known as the recreational anglers of QLD.
Listen to what people from here and Nuggets site and other sites with a strong QLD influence and the general idea of how people are feeling may be appraised. Have a yarn to the people at tackle shops and see how they feel??
We should not be changing the minds of the hierarchy of Sunfish. The hierarchy of Sunfish should be listening to us and changing their attitudes to those that would best represent us.

There's a small quote from Mack's fella's reply. Dr. Barry Pollock wrote it.
The new Snapper rules were announced by Acting Premier Lucas on behalf of the Government (Cabinet). It was Cabinet not Minister Wallace who took the final decision on the current rules. Judy, David and I were invited at short notice by the Government to their announcement about Snapper on Sunday 26 June. That was not the time or place to enter into detailed discussions with the Acting Premier or Minister Wallace on the new Snapper rules, or to seek clarifications on details.
I have a few small questions if I may.
When the bloody hell is the appropriate time to question that decision then??
That was exactly the correct time and place to be asking questions and seeking clarifications.
Sunfish should have been asking questions and jumping up and down. Make the Minister and acting Premier answer questions and to clarify things. Make them uncomfortable in their meeting of short notice.
They now know they can steam roll Sunfish and they'll try it again and again from now on I reckon.
Or did the Government learn that one ages ago??

If someone tells me they're going to give me chilli sauce on my hamburger when I want BBQ (and they know I want BBQ) I'm sure as hell going to question their decision when they tell me I'm getting chilli. Just too late once the hamburger is in my hands heading towards my gob for them to change things isn't it??

Besides that....the meeting was on a Sunday. How many Government meetings are held on a Sunday. Should have just told them make it Monday because you've gone to church.

Besides, besides that...it was a media release wasn't it. What a great opportunity to get media attention. Abuse the minister and Deputy Dog about making stupid, unclear decisions. Get it on the 6 o'clock Sunday night news. Nothing interesting ever happens on a Sunday.

[Macks forever]

Finga asked the question - "When the bloody hell is the appropriate time to question a decision then??"
A fair question.

Considering the secret little twists in a lot of these political and bureaucratic announcements, and the orchestrated way they are delivered, I probably would have been a bit hesitant to jump up and down at the time of the announcement, especially if I had no prior knowledge of what was in it. The spin in these things is never "THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NIOTHING BUT THE TRUTH". As it was, the minister still fool a number of people [myself included] who thought the 1 fish over 70cm applied to commercial fishers as well.

However, most people can usually find out all the relevant info within 24 hrs of announcments like this, and there is an urgency in responding formally and publicly and loudly to some of these things. And if there is something really dirty going on then there does need to be a lot of jumping up and down and screaming from a representative body, whoever that is supposed to be.

I shall try to turn this into something positive and post it on the related thread of what Sunfish should do.

Something like:

Respond to significant issues quickly, strongly and publicly when the best interests of recreational fishers in Qld have been adversly affected.

[Fitzy]

"The Sunfish Management Committee is very reluctant that Sunfish should respond on a social site that is more about entertainment and ego-tripping than responsible fisheries management."



Gee - that is pulling the shutters down, isn't it? :o


It is hard to have much confidence in an outfit that wants to bury its head in the sand like that. :-?




.

I recon it was all a fair enough comment until the generalised insults were tossed in. I think the words around ego-tripping ruined what he was trying to communicate to his club members. Apart from that, if Barry Pollock and/or the Sunfish club don't wish to join in this community & by doing so engage with more recreational anglers, that is up to them. All the while the gap ever widens......

If the sunfish club do however wish to engage in this and/or similar social network sites, I'm prepared to listen to their ideas and offer assistance / advice to them. My number isn't hard to find.

Cheers,

fitzy..

[finga]

Yep, there comes a time when bridges have to be mended for the good of fishing.

Sunfish need to take a big step in building that bridge.
Talking to us would be a big step.
Asking what we see as problems would be a step.
Mack's fella has outlined a few thoughts. Addressing those would be a big step.

I don't think the people on web based forums are that narrow minded as not to be able to see what is a good thing if it happens. And accept it. And work to make it better.

[Gazza]

Fitzy , please don't focus on "ego-tripping" as a Key-Word (by SunFish) to SUPPOSEDLY "tar&feather" Ausfishers ...please.

I do appreciate you "stepping up to the plate" to PROTECT ::) AusFishos...err integrity :-*

We RecFishos R 1 M8 (good,bad&ugly)....I'd venture to State , SunFish is not the Messiah or Useless....and certainly imo on RecFishos "side" 99% of the time.

Commercials & THE CHARTER SECTOR do "fish for profit"..we don't
jmo as always

[Judy SFQ]

More to the point, what have you done for the recreational fishing community, Finga. At least Sunfish is open with what they try to do. What I'd like to know Finga is what have you tried to do recently. I really am interested, I spent 4 very busy days at the boat show in Brisbane recently and most of that time was spent talking to people who were asking me what they could do to help.
Some had actually lodged recent submissions to the government on issues that ticked them off. Most of those I asked to send me copies of what they had submitted because it gives me a greater feel for what their concerns are. I'd like to offer you the same opportunity. Please send me any recent submissions you have made. That is of course unless you just point the Finga and remember there is always one finger pointing back at you.
More than happy to receive comments, just don't bother complaining about what you think everyone else should be doing, I already have two teenagers who do that very well.

Regards

Judy Lynne

[finga]

More to the point, what have you done for the recreational fishing community, Finga. At least Sunfish is open with what they try to do. What I'd like to know Finga is what have you tried to do recently. I really am interested, I spent 4 very busy days at the boat show in Brisbane recently and most of that time was spent talking to people who were asking me what they could do to help.
Some had actually lodged recent submissions to the government on issues that ticked them off. Most of those I asked to send me copies of what they had submitted because it gives me a greater feel for what their concerns are. I'd like to offer you the same opportunity. Please send me any recent submissions you have made. That is of course unless you just point the Finga and remember there is always one finger pointing back at you.
More than happy to receive comments, just don't bother complaining about what you think everyone else should be doing, I already have two teenagers who do that very well.

Regards

Judy Lynne
To be blunt Judy....I don't have to do anything. I'm not charged as the peek body representing recreational angling. Sunfish is.

If you want to know what our concerns are just read. It is not hard.
If Sunfish were open then the minutes of meetings would be available to all through your website. Financial reports would be available to all through your website. The more information that is shared the better it would be for people to understand what Sunfish does and how they do it.

Put the submissions up here so all can read. They may well interest us.

4 busy days at the boat show....good then. That means your doing your job and talking to the general fishing community.

Helping the recreational community is more then submitting submissions. If you want to know what I do to help the fishing community or to help those a bit worse off then most of us then ask people around the traps. Those who know me know what I do. I don't have to tell people and I definitely do not have to brag about it. Do I actually do anything??

Why is it Judy that Sunfish say they're all about education BUT the education page is blank on your website?
Why is it Jusy that Sunfish's events page on their website is blank?
When is Sunfish's website going to work again?

Read all the threads about Sunfish and answer some questions that are asked and that would go a long to informing us what Sunfish does and it would go a long way in appeasing the masses.
Keep us in the loop. Post on the various fishing forums. A paste with the same information onto the various sites will reach a large audience.

As for finger pointing. Well the job I'm charged with isn't been questioned is it? Sunfish's is.
If Sunfish can't handle criticism from a few people (the people they're supposed to represent) on a forum how are they supposed to handle Ministers?

And....when is the appropriate time to jump up and down about the snapper bag limit decision? Could not do it during the announcement so when is the right time?? Has it been questioned yet?

Why not put a thread up here that Sunfish's AGM is on on the week-end so people may be able to attend??
There are lots of people who may well want to go to that but do not know it's on. What are the details for Sunfish's AGM?

[boney-leg]

I recon it was all a fair enough comment until the generalised insults were tossed in.

fitzy..

I agree with that. Ausfish has 100000 members and this thread has comments from about 10 people ... about 0.01% of the forum. For either side of the argument - that is stuff all support. And to really put it into perspective - ETEC bashing gets easily more participants in the threads. So maybe there is a reason for not following social network sites as a true indication of the feelings out there;) Used properly - they do have a place though. This thread reminds me of Python's 'Life of Brian' - We are all individuals ... I'm not.

[charleville]

So maybe there is a reason for not following social network sites as a true indication of the feelings out there.



Not so sure about that. Was there ever a greater example of the power of the internet than the so called "Arab spring" that saw long standing leaders toppled because of online clarion calls?

Likewise, the recent riots, vandalism and mob looting incidents in Britain were all driven by the use of online media.

Accordingly, it should not be too hard to organise via the internet, the stacking of the AGM of any organisation that loses the confidence of people who it might see as its rightful constituents such that the entire committee is voted out, together with any hostile employees of that organisation.


Not hard at all for anyone who wants to be energetic enough to drive such a campaign. The defence for the organisation under attack may be to engage in what is called "Astro-turfing" in online media, but the officers of that organisation have to be IT literate enough to understand how to do that.


.

[finga]

Accordingly, it should not be too hard to organise via the internet, the stacking of the AGM of any organisation
.
That might be why the Sunfish website has been down for a fairly long period of time and we don't seem to get answers to questions.
Sunfish's Annual General Meeting is on this coming week-end apparently.

They seem to find the time to question what others are doing but cannot find the time to answer questions about themselves.

[Captain Incredible]

The whole "peak body" process is a sham. The QCVA purports to be the peak body for charter. Maybe twenty years ago it was. The same ills of old age, loss of focus, using the technology of twenty years ago, (Pollock stated in an email that a Sunfish colleague had described users of online fishing forums as "wankers with computers". Nice one Barry) and a shrinking membership base through maintaining the rage of twenty years ago rather than moving into the current arena of debate & representation.

Fisheries need to conduct a rigid audit of these peak bodies for representativeness, "real" membership not claimed affiliations, due process, cooperative skills with other stakeholders, engagement in Fisheries processes, being able to initiate & drive change in community attitudes through grass roots community engagement, reflect those attitudes to management & adopt a "whole of Government" approach to representation & lobby efforts on issues such as marine safety & MPAs.

This audit should help the ones that want to be saved alter their processes to remain relevant.

Funding & a seat at any Government table should be reliant on stakeholder representatives meeting strict KPIs. Otherwise, as most are currently doing, these "peak bodies" are simply wasting space & time.

[finga]

What's a MPA and a KPI?
Sorry. I just don't know. :(

[charleville]

KPI = Key Performance Indicators = standard management jargon for what an organisation or worker gets measured on. Often their pay depends on it.


MPA = ???? = Marine Protection Areas?????




.

[rayken1938]

Having a winge on a social media site will achieve nothing if you genuinely wish to bring about change.
It wont get you barbecue sauce on your burger when you want chile.
You can get involved with sunfish and agitate from within to bring about change if you can convert existing members to your way of thinking or attract new likeminded members.
An AGM or preferably a general meeting is an ideal meeting to do this providing you give notice of motion.
The notice of motion will go out to all members and affiliates and even if the notice fails it may be enough to make the current leadership to sit up and take notice.
Any member has the right to be heard but if you are not a member you will quite correctly will be ignored.
The other alternative is to start up an opposition organisation but judging by the limited number of people actually posting on this thread compared to the number who are reading it it would appear to me that the silent majority are happy with the job that Sunfish are doing or they could not care less and deserve what they receive.
Cheers
Ray

[finga]

Woohoo. Sunfish website is working again.
AUSFISH
Some Sunfish members may have noted the malicious comments and other dubious posts about Sunfish and its Chairman, and other people on the AUSFISH forum. The Sunfish Management Committee is very reluctant that Sunfish should respond on a social site that is more about entertainment and ego-tripping than responsible fisheries management. All policies of Sunfish, including our submissions on fisheries management reviews are done by an inclusive process whereby all members and regional branches can have an input. Sunfish wishes to continue to be a responsible and reputable representative of recreational fishing in Queensland.

So if one of Sunfish's key components is Education and their education page is blank and has been blank for a bloody long time and Ausfish has many educational aspects such as how to cast a cast net etc etc and other educational features in the hints and tips section (http://www.ausfish.com.au/info.shtml) and Ausfish even has sticky about recreational fishing regulations.
Which one seems to be more concerned with education??

What are the malicious comments and dubious posts?

What is the organisational structure of Sunfish?

If Sunfish is the peak body that represent all recreational anglers in QLD then why is it the vast majority of recreational anglers cannot have a say?

Why is it Sunfish cannot answer direct questions but can ask questions?

[FNQCairns]

Looks like their charter might now be for viewing by selected eyes only..I couldn't find it on their site, only found 'brochure level' information, the last time i read it was from their website...to not include it would make for a political decision??

Unless they no longer have one???

[finga]

Why is it when ever anybody asks about Sunfish the standard reply is join and find out??

Ray, mate. I asked a few days ago when the annual general meeting was and no reply from anyone.
A bit late to find out about it late today to go today.
And why not many different members of Ausfish replying???
Maybe the title of this thread might be why.
Sunfish. What have they done for those of us in QLD?
Maybe people think they haven't done anything.
But near 4,500 reads on this thread means people are looking.

Sunfish...what, and where, is the complete list of your affiliates?
People may be a member of Sunfish BUT do not realise it.

[rayken1938]

There are several ways you can have representation on sunfish and receive their monthly reports.
If you are a member of either an amateur fishing club that is affiliated with the Qld Amateur Fishing Clubs Assn,Ansa,FFSAQ,or one of the local Sunfish Branches.
If you did not receive notice of meetings that would be the fault of the organisations not that of Sunfish.
Why not contact Sunfish directly rather than just throwing questions into the wind??
Maybe people are just reading the thread and having a chuckle?
Why not start a poll with some categories such as
I am happy with sunfish
i am unhappy
dont know
dont care
Cheers
Ray

[bigmack]

whats the point of teaching all these kids to fish when there is going to be no where to fish. more green zones and exclusion zones coming on a massive scale and in some cases right from the beach to 3 mile out. All the while amateurs are being closed down with more stringent bag limits and the commercial guys can still go and rape 3 ton of snapper of the hards and laugh about it. It really seems like a pretence at doing something when the fact remains that you have people like Paul Lucas making decisions about how many snapper you can now catch and previously closing snapper fishing in the wrong part of the year anyway - duh! Consultation with fishos who really fish - yeah thats just a croc of you know what for appeasement. All of the trailer boat protests I have seen over the years and all the lobbying has come to nothing really. apart from teaching kids to fish as some have said - I dont believe Sunfish have done anything for my necjk of the woods.

[Gazza]

Double the PPV funding to Sunfish to a $1.00/PPV , maybe they can then afford to do "more" things..... :bulb2:

Maybe the "Charter Sector" could donate $0.49/KG also... :-*:P:P ... and then claim "another" Tax Deduction :bulb2:

[Gazza]

ok,ok..alright then CI ::) ........ make-it only $0.15 /kg to further support the "RecFishos Voice"
like the "Charter Sector does by taking RecFishos ..fishing" for a Charter Profit. 8-)

[Captain Incredible]

Gazza, At the moment the charter "sector" are owned, organised & run by the Fisheries recreational fishing manager & Sunfish. Mate I would love to make a donation. But given the uncertainty caused be Sunfish flip-flopping from position (there is no problem with Snapper stocks) to position (SNWG recommendations should be ignored) to position (5 with 2 only over 70 cm) to position (can "live with" 4 with 1 over 70) to position (oops, forgot about the pros- how about them having only one over 70) to position (need a 108 tonne TAC for pro) to position (Oops, too high, can we make it 75 tonnes) to position (we want 5 fish bag limit again but also still the pros smashed). What next?????????????????????

Gaz, I would love to help. But my money is firmly in my pocket until you blokes either decide what you want, or kick charter out into the commercial wilderness as commercial operators with a "valuable property right" taking rec fishers fishing.

Love your angst, but as always you don't have any control of the facts. Mate, to put it bluntly, rec fishers without any investment at risk are currently running the charter industry. I hope you do a good job for charter & rec fishos who use charter vessels in the future, because at the moment you & other are doing a really poor, poor job. But at least you have nothing to lose. Love your work.

BTW, all the fees & charges you describe were part of the RR RIS. Are you suggesting that we all "turn back the clock" & implement the RR RIS recommendations lock, stock & barrel? Should you add $90 pa for rec fishers to your angst? Or are you going to do a Sunfish- the SNWG recommendations SHOULD apply for everyone except you? Again, love your work.

I would suggest that ALL support a review of the entire SNWG process & a report be issued. That way the facts, fallacies, good bits & absolute shit can be identified for what they are. Including how ALL "peak bodies" were represented in this process, how the general recreational fishing position was identified & presented, etc.

Now that is something I could really love. Until then my money is firmly in my pocket.

[sleepygreg]

And meanwhile the 'pros' that netted 2,200kg of flathead in the deception bay area of moreton bay in the last week (and were paid handsomely for it by a local 'fish monger') carry on their merry way. Any one intending on targetting flathead in this area in the near future - dont bother. Ok - so which other organisations (other than sunfish - cos obviously they dont have any credibility here) are championing the banning of netting in yellow zones...please let me know so that I can throw my support behind them.

[PADDLES]

good call greg. not just yellow zones either for moreton bay marine park, commercial fishing should be removed from the whole marine park considering the concentration of so many recreational anglers.

[Captain Incredible]

good call greg. not just yellow zones either for moreton bay marine park, commercial fishing should be removed from the whole marine park considering the concentration of so many recreational anglers.

Why not start with the removal of Green Zones given the concentration of rec anglers? The closure of South Reef at Redcliffe to rec fishing is a travesty. I had my pic taken in the Redcliffe Herald back in 2009 supporting this area to remain open for rec anglers. The next week Dave Bateman, Bill Turner, Lillian & some from the Redcliffe Jetty had their pic in the Herald suporting the EPA MBMP process as "good for fishermen". That's when I gave up. That's when rec fishos lost Woody Point, and it would seem that it was done with the local suport of Sunfish, from the tone of the Herald article. So don't tell me how good Sunfish are for local fisheries. Their position is that as long as the pros lose more than recs it is a good outcome. And that, to put it really bluntly is bullshit.

I had the same conversation with another rec angler today over this flathead netting debacle. These netters were displaced from out of sight from up Saltwater Creek into competition in plain sight with rec anglers at Scarborough. Yes, I have seen it & don't like it either. And pro crabbers targetting Mud crabs should be moved on from out the front of Airport Creek (D Bay)as well because that is too close to where I personally crab.

But unless you have the arrogance to suggest that the non fishing public should be happy with Vietnamese Basa, how about you suggest where flathead should be caught for those who do not fish to consume. Mars?

I read today a position paper from the pros that the Deepwater Fin Fish Fishery should become a COFA (Commercial Only Fishing Area). Is this a viable alternative, to create areas or fisheries which exclude rec anglers so that Queenslanders who do not fish can actually eat locally caught fresh seafood? Because the low level of debate on this "resource sharing" debate on Ausfish is that the pros need to move away. But no one is saying where to, or if pros & recs could actually "share" access through some resource allocation model so that seafood lovers get some too.

I don't like pros & nets in my face either, but the arguments put forward for them to "disappear" are not particularly supportable.

[lampuki]

Keith - we meet again.

This is somewhat off topic, but is in response to Keith's last post.

Keith, some more background info about me in addition to the phone call we had the other day. My first cousin was a pro, and my old next door neighbour (for 21 yrs) is a prawn trawler.

The argument put forth in the "position paper" you mentioned is laughable!!!!!!! Its just crap!!!! I mentioned in a previous post (which you were involved in) about a required attitude adjustment, the comercial fishing industry needs a serious attitude adjustment, and this paper is further evidence of that. You talk about the arrogance to suggest that the non fishing public should be happy with viet bassa, what about the arrogance shown by the commercial fishing industry? What other sector that harvests from the wild has the balls to make this sort of suggestion? Seriously? Ridiculous. Serious attitude adjustment required.

You go to woolies/coles....fruit and veg....planted, grown, harvested by a farmer......chickens, beef, lamb etc, none of which are sourced from the wild.......Maybe the commericial fishing sector should be slugged with a MRRT? :)

Whilst the story of the netting of flatties at dbay is offensive, its not isolated, or illegal. The only way this stops is if it becomes illegal, and even then, its a fight to stop the pros who are driven by the $ IMO, this sort of netting should be banned, and banned now. You dont need a scientific paper to understand that taking (~ > 2000) flathead within a week, from one area, cant be good for the stock of fish in that area.

The argument for this sort of netting to "dissapear" is very supportable.

[rando]

With nearly 6000 views of this thread there is obviously a considerable degree of interest in the debate going on here.
I find it incredible that Sunfish could respond to questions regarding their efficacy and structure with statements as dismissive of the fishers of Queensland as the ones posted on this board and the Sunfish website.
Shame on you Sunfish.
If that is the best you have to offer in consultative and or representative behaviour, then you have failed recreational fishers utterly.

rando
Rob Anderson

[PADDLES]

i don't know the answer to where they should be displaced to keith, and i can't begrudge a guy trying to make an honest and legal living. i guess the only real solution is for either their licenses to be purchased by the government or maybe for their licenses to be moved to other areas and them being compensated to move their operations and families.

i still stand by my statement, that for an area with such a large concentration of recreational anglers, so close to a major population centre, the entire moreton bay marine park should be off limits to commercial fishing and be recreational and charter harvesting only. there's other areas away from the marine park that will still produce flathead for market, and not result in an area being legally raped by short sighted commercial operators impacting so greatly on so many recreational anglers.

[Macks forever]

I have to agree with Paddles.

Quite simply there are not enough fish for everybody to take all they want. Even more to the point, there are not enough fish of certain species for both commercial fishers and rec anglers to take all they want. It is time for the tough decisions to be made. Part of that is allocating resources to best use.

Many areas and some species need to become net free. Flathead is a good species example. And before we hear the cries of "no fresh local fish" and "What about the poor little old lady who would be denied her flathead?" I simply say, the world will not end because someone cannot buy a piece of flathead. They will buy something else. And there will then be more flathead caught by anglers and the little old lady's kindly angling neighbour will share some of his fresh caught flathead with her.

Yes there would need to be adequate compensation to the affected commercial fishers but that would also have to prevent any displaced effort which has been the curse of past buy-backs.

[Captain Incredible]

I have to agree with Paddles.

Quite simply there are not enough fish for everybody to take all they want. Even more to the point, there are not enough fish of certain species for both commercial fishers and rec anglers to take all they want. It is time for the tough decisions to be made. Part of that is allocating resources to best use.

Many areas and some species need to become net free. Flathead is a good species example. And before we hear the cries of "no fresh local fish" and "What about the poor little old lady who would be denied her flathead?" I simply say, the world will not end because someone cannot buy a piece of flathead. They will buy something else. And there will then be more flathead caught by anglers and the little old lady's kindly angling neighbour will share some of his fresh caught flathead with her.

Yes there would need to be adequate compensation to the affected commercial fishers but that would also have to prevent any displaced effort which has been the curse of past buy-backs.

So how will the litle old lady repay her kindly neighbour? With money? With goods or services? So Macks Forever, you have highlighted the real issue- sustainability of the resource. Will the resource be more sustainable if it is bought, sold or traded on the black market through "kind neighbours"?

If the dismantling of the formal commercial fishing sector & its replacement with some black market neighbourhood "nudge, nudge, wink ,wink" way for rec anglers to earn a buck then this debate has gone nowhere. In fact the debate was about what Sunfish was doing to manage the effort of the rec sector in discussions with Fisheries managers. Not that Sunfish have bothered. They went straight to the Minister, stuffed up their representation because they had not widely consulted on an acceptable rec stance, then tried to re-enter the debate after getting what Sunfish had asked for by pressuring the new Fisheries DG. She rightly told them politely to get stuffed. And on & on. To the extent that Sunfish not only have emasculated the recreational fishing voice from any Departmental consultation, they have slammed the door on anyone at all having a say.

Unfortunatley MF, you are too close to the money. The world will not end if there is no more recreational fishing either. This is where I have been coming from for years. Discounting the right of other to access fisheries plays into the hands of the non fishing lobby. Today the little old lady's flathead, tomorrow the loss of the entire rec sector fishery. And if you think this is bullshit, look at how badly the Federal Government handled the ban on live cattle exports because of "animal cruelty". Another debate where Sunfish are MIA. Which was the topic of the thread.

[PinHead]

I have to agree with Paddles.

Quite simply there are not enough fish for everybody to take all they want. Even more to the point, there are not enough fish of certain species for both commercial fishers and rec anglers to take all they want. It is time for the tough decisions to be made. Part of that is allocating resources to best use.

Many areas and some species need to become net free. Flathead is a good species example. And before we hear the cries of "no fresh local fish" and "What about the poor little old lady who would be denied her flathead?" I simply say, the world will not end because someone cannot buy a piece of flathead. They will buy something else. And there will then be more flathead caught by anglers and the little old lady's kindly angling neighbour will share some of his fresh caught flathead with her.

Yes there would need to be adequate compensation to the affected commercial fishers but that would also have to prevent any displaced effort which has been the curse of past buy-backs.

So how will the litle old lady repay her kindly neighbour? With money? With goods or services? So Macks Forever, you have highlighted the real issue- sustainability of the resource. Will the resource be more sustainable if it is bought, sold or traded on the black market through "kind neighbours"?

If the dismantling of the formal commercial fishing sector & its replacement with some black market neighbourhood "nudge, nudge, wink ,wink" way for rec anglers to earn a buck then this debate has gone nowhere. In fact the debate was about what Sunfish was doing to manage the effort of the rec sector in discussions with Fisheries managers. Not that Sunfish have bothered. They went straight to the Minister, stuffed up their representation because they had not widely consulted on an acceptable rec stance, then tried to re-enter the debate after getting what Sunfish had asked for by pressuring the new Fisheries DG. She rightly told them politely to get stuffed. And on & on. To the extent that Sunfish not only have emasculated the recreational fishing voice from any Departmental consultation, they have slammed the door on anyone at all having a say.

Unfortunatley MF, you are too close to the money. The world will not end if there is no more recreational fishing either. This is where I have been coming from for years. Discounting the right of other to access fisheries plays into the hands of the non fishing lobby. Today the little old lady's flathead, tomorrow the loss of the entire rec sector fishery. And if you think this is bullshit, look at how badly the Federal Government handled the ban on live cattle exports because of "animal cruelty". Another debate where Sunfish are MIA. Which was the topic of the thread.

what a crock of the proverbial..how about a simple thank you and a smile. i do manage to catch fish at times and I have pleasure in giving some to my in laws who are in their 80's..if you have a problem with that then you have some serious issues. I know one charter I would never dream of going out with.

[PADDLES]

the point we are missing here is that commercial operators will still be able to catch flathead and the little old lady will be able to go down to her local seafood store and buy flathead, it will simply be caught elsewhere and not in the moreton bay marine park. i agree with pinhead here, in that i think it's a pretty long bow to draw by saying that removal of commercial fishing effort from the moreton bay marine park will in turn make a brisbane seafood black market flourish.

anyhow sunfish is the subject here and i guess this is an issue that a recreational angling representative body should maybe look at putting forwards.

[Macks forever]

[QUOTE=Macks forever;1321299]I have to agree with Paddles.

Quite simply there are not enough fish for everybody to take all they want. Even more to the point, there are not enough fish of certain species for both commercial fishers and rec anglers to take all they want. It is time for the tough decisions to be made. Part of that is allocating resources to best use.

Many areas and some species need to become net free. Flathead is a good species example. And before we hear the cries of "no fresh local fish" and "What about the poor little old lady who would be denied her flathead?" I simply say, the world will not end because someone cannot buy a piece of flathead. They will buy something else. And there will then be more flathead caught by anglers and the little old lady's kindly angling neighbour will share some of his fresh caught flathead with her.

Yes there would need to be adequate compensation to the affected commercial fishers but that would also have to prevent any displaced effort which has been the curse of past buy-backs.[/QUOTE
]

So how will the litle old lady repay her kindly neighbour? With money? With goods or services? So Macks Forever, you have highlighted the real issue- sustainability of the resource. Will the resource be more sustainable if it is bought, sold or traded on the black market through "kind neighbours"?

If the dismantling of the formal commercial fishing sector & its replacement with some black market neighbourhood "nudge, nudge, wink ,wink" way for rec anglers to earn a buck then this debate has gone nowhere. In fact the debate was about what Sunfish was doing to manage the effort of the rec sector in discussions with Fisheries managers. Not that Sunfish have bothered. They went straight to the Minister, stuffed up their representation because they had not widely consulted on an acceptable rec stance, then tried to re-enter the debate after getting what Sunfish had asked for by pressuring the new Fisheries DG. She rightly told them politely to get stuffed. And on & on. To the extent that Sunfish not only have emasculated the recreational fishing voice from any Departmental consultation, they have slammed the door on anyone at all having a say.

Unfortunatley MF, you are too close to the money. The world will not end if there is no more recreational fishing either. This is where I have been coming from for years. Discounting the right of other to access fisheries plays into the hands of the non fishing lobby. `. And if you think this is bullshit, look at how badly the Federal Government handled the ban on live cattle exports because of "animal cruelty". Another debate where Sunfish are MIA. Which was the topic of the thread.

WOW! What an extrapolation from Capt Incredible.

For starters CI is suggesting that every angler that gives away a fish or even a fillet of fish is encouraging/participating in black marketing. And then almost in the same breath links that to sustainability!

I have given my friends and family fish occasionally. I have never expected, asked for nor received any payment in return. It is still legal to give fish away and it is pathetic way of arguing a point to suggest otherwise. It has been done for centuries. I am sure if Capt Incredible has evidence of black he would have reported it to the authorities. But then I guess he would be reporting every angler who shared some fish, judging by his comments above.

To suggest that re-allocation of a species such as flathead from the commercial sector to the recreational sector will be the end of both commercial and recreational fishing as we know it is just another "bullshit" [to use your term] red herring. Re-allocation of species has happened numerous times and results in the enhancement of rec fishing and very little detriment, often over-compensation, to commercial fishing.

I stand by my statement:-
Many areas and some species need to become net free. Flathead is a good species example.

It is sounding more and more like Capt Incredible is an apologist for the commercial fishing sector. It begs the question, does Capt Incredible own a commercial fishing licence?

I think the name Capt Uncredible is becoming more applicable.

[Macks forever]

the point we are missing here is that commercial operators will still be able to catch flathead and the little old lady will be able to go down to her local seafood store and buy flathead, it will simply be caught elsewhere and not in the moreton bay marine park. i agree with pinhead here, in that i think it's a pretty long bow to draw by saying that removal of commercial fishing effort from the moreton bay marine park will in turn make a brisbane seafood black market flourish.

anyhow sunfish is the subject here and i guess this is an issue that a recreational angling representative body should maybe look at putting forwards.

I agree with Paddles in that net free areas such as Moreton Bay Marine Park will still allow fish to be netted and provided to people who want to buy fresh local fish [although >75% of fish bought now is frozen and/or imported but that is another story]

However I do believe it is an important issue to also have net free species as well, and I still believe species such as Flathead are a good example.

And I guess this is the quandry, getting back to the subject of the thread-
Where does Sunfish stand on issues like this?
and
What has it done to progress issues like this?

These are 2 distinctly separate questions. Having a position on something is one thing. Strategically progressing/pushing it is another. And making it a reality is something totally different again but often out of the control of those pushing the issues.

[Macks forever]

Stimulated by another thread:

What happened at the Sunfish Qld AGM?
Is Barry Pollock still chairman?
Was there a press release?
Any statements?
Position policies?

[PinHead]

Stimulated by another thread:

What happened at the Sunfish Qld AGM?
Is Barry Pollock still chairman?
Was there a press release?
Any statements?
Position policies?

who cares????????

as someone from Sunfish stated about egos on websites..maybe that same person should have a look at his own position. Ego running rampant.

Oh..and if he thinks I hide behind a keyboard:

. Phone no is 0402 230 162

[rayken1938]

Have a look at their press release on the female mud crab issue.
Also their website is up and running.
Have a read and think again.
Cheers
Ray

[PinHead]

Have a look at their press release on the female mud crab issue.
Also their website is up and running.
Have a read and think again.
Cheers
Ray

Ray,

read the press reports from the Minister and read the Sunfish reply. Scott Mitchel has kindly put it in the news section. Plus there is another post there with a report from someone else. There are some glaring items there that appear that the not all the dogs are barking up the same tree at the same possum.

[oldboot]

Here are some thaughts that may not have occured to some readers.

Bag Sunfish as much as you like..perhaps they deserve it perhaps not.

But the fact remains that "peak bodies" like Sunfish have the primary function in the government view of being a cheap clearing house for government responsibilities.

The state government has a responsibility under federal legeslation to conduct CONsultation, current government does not realy want to hear what grass roots people think, they prefeer that their agenda goes forward unchallenged, so they support "peak bodies" and claim that they represent far more than they do.

They then claim thay have "consulted stake holders" and thus they claim to fulfill their responsibilty for "CONsultation"

Mostly these "peak bodies" represent a very small fraction of the effected community and are never radical or militant.

If they became radical or mitant or caused trouble for the government, they probaly would not last past next june.

It is in the interests of the government that these " peak bodies" are seen to be viable, but they remain underfunded, such that they can not afford to comprehensively represent commuity views nor employ qualified experts or high powered communicators.

So government funded "Peak Bodies" such as Sunfish are limited in what they can achieve.

This is the way current government wants it, and it is the same across the community.

Another responsibity the state government and the head of the fisheries department has under the act, is education.

In this day and age Government is not interested in informing the effected public about what is happening least of all changes to legeslation that may not win votes, so they sponsor touchy feely functionally pointless programes like teaching kids to fish.
Face facts, taking a whole pile of little kids fishing once will have almost no impact on the fishery or on the interests of recreational angling.... but it makes a nice touchy feely media story and there is probaly a few votes in it.

They then claim that they have fulfuilled there education responsibilities under the act.

Personally I would rather see a training programes for adults ( teens welcome) that addressed real issues that every recreational angler should be aware of, like spicies identification, release practices, boating safety and changes to legeslation......in the general fishing community blind ignorance is the norm.

But I doubt that that will ever happen.

The only hope we have is to support other non government funded representative groups with a more radical and agressive agenda..if they exist.

for example.
The government would prefeer to point at the RACQ as the peak motoring body and say they represent all motorists......but their views on vehicle modification would be very very moderate..without the existance of the 4wd, hotrod and other associations there would be no alternative view on the matter, this does not mean the RACQ is not doing its job.

Sunfish is what it is and sorry I don't see any likleyhood of significant change.

We need to get of our own bums and go direct to out pollies in numbers and we need to form and support other orginisations to represent an alternative view to Sunfish.

Specificaly so the government can not point to one orginisation ( regardless of its identity or view) and say the represent all recreational anglers.

cheers

[ricksta]

Interesting read.........

…….and I hope that this reaches some sort of a conclusion, namely that Sunfish lifts its game and becomes more open with the people it is supposed to be representing.

The queries raised here are not unreasonable and more transparency on Sunfish’s part would certainly be a step towards resolving some of the issues that a great deal of recreational anglers obviously have.

[rayken1938]

Well i have to eat my hat after speaking up in favor of sunfish I am appalled at the quality of their latest work after reading their proposal for the simplifying of Qld Fishing regulations.
I was informed that this was written by one person and then sent out to a fairly select group for submission to fisheries.
Whilst there are some very good things in parts of the proposal there are serious areas of concern that should have been adressed within Sunfish before release.
It should have been compiled by people with expertise in each individual section instead of being left to the one person and should also have been reviewed before release.
I thought that my days of stirring the establishment were over now it looks like i have to put my money where my mouth is and join up and give them heaps.
Cheers
Ray

[PinHead]

Well i have to eat my hat after speaking up in favor of sunfish I am appalled at the quality of their latest work after reading their proposal for the simplifying of Qld Fishing regulations.
I was informed that this was written by one person and then sent out to a fairly select group for submission to fisheries.
Whilst there are some very good things in parts of the proposal there are serious areas of concern that should have been adressed within Sunfish before release.
It should have been compiled by people with expertise in each individual section instead of being left to the one person and should also have been reviewed before release.
I thought that my days of stirring the establishment were over now it looks like i have to put my money where my mouth is and join up and give them heaps.
Cheers
Ray

Just ignore them..treat them as the non entity they really are..let their egos run riot and forget them.