Buying merc parts for the Tower of Power from USA /local- Thoughts/input please?

[malby]

Hi Guys,

Pulled down the Tower of Power today and as expected she needs some work but nothing that is too much of a drama I'm told.

My outboard mechanic gave me a shopping list complete with parts numbers but not sure if I can or should get these off US ebay or another US dealer like Crowly Marine or am I better off just getting them locally?

I need loads of gaskets inc inner side plate ones, intermediate ones, outer ones, carby 709027090370901709077090870906

gaskets, a water pump kit (or 2), a needle and seat for carby, a brush set, lower bearing carrier seals, lower exhaust seal, an engine mount, some exhaust tube, Pinion Stop and drive assembly/drive clutch for starter motor, lower bearing carrier (see pic as its stuffed) and exhaust cover/deflection plate.

I have attached a photo of a 'lower arm' (or something/can't remember the name) which is stuffed and will need replacing with a 2nd hand or new one as will the bit it attaches to (again can't remember what its called).

If anyone knows where I can get a decent 2nd hand sandwitch plate at a good price that would help to but if not it will be welded along with the other corroded parts.

Another issue:

There was some corrosion that will need to be welded up on the block and sandwich plate (if I can't get a cheap 2nd hand one).
This should be no big deal as I have a mate who is an ally welder.

Another pic shows one of the bolts we have broken trying to remove the inner sideplate. Gave up after this and it is now soaking in penetrating oil awaiting ozy heat. If anyone has any good ideas on removing these ideas would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance for your input.
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[BM]

Parts will be cheaper if you order from the US. Get a full gasket set, rather than individiaul gaskets. It will be considerably cheaper.

What's actually wrong with the shift arm? other than being corroded? They are all corroded. Well, except for the as brand new one I have here attached to an as brand new 115 inline 6.

A bit odd to see the bottom bearing carrier broken at the bolt bosses. Perhaps it broke from being struck trying to remove it? Or was already broken?

Best off to oxy the inner sideplate bolts before removal or you will likely break more. They get very high temperatures around them.

The small amount of corrosion on the exhaust divide in the block (at sandwich plate junction) I would not worry about personally as long as there is a complete seal around the perimeter.

Brushes can be made locally for about $20 per brush or less but a set fom Mercury may be the way to go. They may only sell them as a top cap assembly these days. You would need to check.

With your waterpump kit, theres no value in replacing the top housing if theres nothing wrong with it. wasted money. If its gotten melted then sure, or if the base is really warped sure also but if its in good nick then don't replace it.

If your mechanic is happy for you to sort the parts then buying US is the way to go to save money but is not supporting local business. That decision rests with you!

Cheers

[craigie]

Simple, order from the States and save a bundle !!

Something I did recently when having a major service done on my 115hp Optimax.

Crowly should be fine or google others. Some US suppliers will not ship outside the States.

Cheers
Craigie

[finga]

I get my parts from the states.
A lot easier for me sitting out here miles from the big smoke.

[Fed]

You're on a roll Malby, who's doing it you or the outboard guy?
Looking at your pics gave me an irrational urge to get a project to play with then I gave myself an uppercut. All good fun eh?

[malby]

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Thanks again BM.

I would love to buy a full gasket set.

Not sure which US site is best to buy from so any suggestions anyone? I have bookmarked Crowley Marine's page and they seem to only sell them individually. Maybe I need to go elsewhere to buy them as a set? This is the page I have bookmarked and even then I had some doubt about whether I had nailed the exact correct engine as they had 2 options for the 1985 inline 6?

http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury-outboard/278.cfm

I am after places people have used which 'do' ship outside the USA. Feel free to PM me if it is not ok to do this on this public thread as I need to do so asap. I could google places but was hoping to get ideas from Ausfish crew who have used and been happy with the results of places they have ordered from.;)

As for the shift arm it is corroded right through and just hanging by a thread. Will need to source a new or second-hand one. Any thoughts on where?

The bottom bearing carrier was broken by the outboard mechanic when trying to get it off. If I'd realised that this part was no longer made I may have slowed him up a tad but he seemed pretty set on just getting it off so now I need to do something about that as there is nothing in the Crowly page about it and I guess my only option is to weld this one up or source a wrecked one?? The Outboard Mech impressed on me that I needed one with exactly the same part number on it also so thus making it even harder as a wrecked part??

I plan to oxy/heat up the inner sideplate bolts as you suggested but the main engine block is such an awkward (and heavy!) thing to cart around in the back of the car. I wondered about just borrowing a plumbers type heat gun/gas bottle thingy? Would that do the same thing? Any other more portable options. Even borrowing an oxy is a hard thing as they are so huge and not everyone wants to loan them out.

Re the water pump kit I will attach a pic of the waterpump for you to check out.

Re welding up the exhaust divide I will get my mate to price me up a cost for welding it and if its $100 or so I reckon I'll go with it as I then get full compression again which would be nice and probably save some money on fuel (I guess?).

As for who's doing it for me Fed it is a combo of me and my outboard guy. He put in a solid 3-4 hrs on Saturday and from here on for a while its over to me to chase parts, clean everything up and generally scrounge what is needed. Hence the cries for help.

Yes its all good fun. I don't really mind a challenge and am a fussy bugger who likes to get things right with my stuff so was always going to pull her apart for a proper 'fix up'.

Thanks again and keep the thoughts rolling,

[malby]

Just found a gasket set on the Crowley page under miscellaneous. Problem is that when you go into the part number (which does not correspond with the part numbers I was given), it says for 1980 model. Problem is I have a 1985 model. Also, what do you get in a gasket kit? Which gaskets as their is no itemisation of this on the site. All sooo confusing for us beginners.

http://www.crowleymarine.com/parts/2958.cfm

[BM]

Ring a Merc dealer here and get a price and part number (if you ask carefully). There will be a complete gasket kit to suit your engine and I would almost expect it to be the same kit form 1973-1986, or possibly 1980-1986 depending on whether the ADI blocks had a different gasket kit.


Included in a gasket/seal set will be all engine gaskets, o-rings and seals.


I don't understand why the mechanic destroyed the bottom bearing carrier. It looked pretty obvious that it had been struck and most likely in an attempt to remove it but I didn't want to come out and accuse! The carrier actually has slots in it designed for a large flat blade screwdriver or other prying type tool. Its tempting to hit on the bolt bosses to begin rotating the carrier to get it out but that will result in what you have there... The easiest way to remove the bearing carrier is to slightly undo the crankcase bolts and then removing the bearing carrier will be quite easy.


Just looked up a range of years of the 115 6 cylinder and they all seem to share the same part number for "End cap assembly, lower" of 1148 - 5410. This part number appears to be currently available.


The bare engine block isn't very heavy mate!!! Strewth, I used to bear hug a complete powerhead and lift it off the midsection and carry to the bench! Anyway, you could use a gas bottle and blow torch in place of an oxy but it will be slower.


The shift "link rod assembly" appears to be an available part new also. Part: 73402


Appears to be something sticking out under the waterpump base which looks a little odd. Pop the base out carefully with a large flat blade screwdriver and see whats going on. Be careful as under the base is the top bearing in the gearbox. That base itself looks ok though. If the top housing looks good too and the wear plate also then it just wants a new impeller and gasket and away you go. Or, if you are feeling anal about it then do a full pump kit.



You've lost me a little with regaining compression from welding up the exhaust divider at the sandwich plate?


Cheers

[malby]

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Again thanks BM.

Re the Gasket kit we are relacing all of the water jackets, the exhaust divider, the carby's are having new gaskets put in and of course the bottom bearing carrier needs all new bits. I saw a kit for $99 as mentioned and just wondered if that was worth it for this situation as we are not doing everything...I don't think?

Re the shift link I also found that part number on a couple of US sites like Crowley marine but when you click on it, it comes up as no longer available. I will try locally also as its only $21 out of the USA.

The outboard mechanic is an approx 50 something yr old merc guy with a string of merc credentials hanging across his wall so I'm sure he was aware of the possibility of smashing the bottom bearing carrier but I'm thinking that this was near the end of our time on Saturday and he was tired and had slipped over and hurt himself at one point so probably rushed that bit but hey, the guy is human too. Felt quite sorry for him actually after his fall. It was a wet drizzly day and we had backed the engine as far as we could under the garage roof but with the engine crane up we had to move the whole thing just outside again and thus wet under foot and over he went as he rushed back into his garage at one point. After that I was just thankful he kept at it till I was right to go.

Re the weight of the powerhead it is not bare. It is still covered in all of the electrical guff, carbies, flywheel, pistons in there etc etc. Very awkward to lift as so many bits hanging off it everywhere which also adds to the drama as you don't want to wreck anything.

Re the bit sticking out from under the water pump the mechanic wants me to order a whole new pump kit so I'm guessing this will be sorted when we do that?

He also still wants to take the fly wheel off as he says he is concerned there may be rust issues under there still. Are there any disposables under there that I should order from the US whilst I'm at it? He never made it that far the other day and the next time I'm over it will be the day he puts it all back so be good to order anything that may be needed now.

Also, the main engine mount area: he suggested we leave it alone. My concern is that we have it all apart now and should we not pull that apart also and see if anything needs doing in there? I have never seen so much in the way of salt deposits around this area!! The photo's I have attached will give you some idea of what I mean. The parts seem cheap and are available - what do you reckon?

Also, one more thing. The top piston looks black from carbon deposits. I can't see the 2nd one down yet but the top 2 were the ones that were down on compression. Should we do anything about them. What do you reckon?::)

[BM]

Price up your individualy gaskets you require and see how that costs out compared to a full kit.

Plenty of outboard wreckers should have a Merc link rod. Time to ring around!

What's he concerned about with the flywheel? The 2 piece top cowels suffered water ingress to the flywheel but not the one piece units. Pulling the flywheel off is no big deal in any case. Nothing under there you need to worry about replacing.

If the engine mounts are ok then I wouldn't mess with what isn't broke. Playing with those top engine mounts can be a bit of a bugger. It's your bottom mount that is likely to be a bit sad.

What were the compression numbers again?

Cheers

[malby]

The top 2 cylinders were approx 125 and the bottom 4 were all around 135 to 138.

There are actually other pistons that look a tad black also now I have a good look.

Re the inner side plate bolts I now have broken 4 off at the bolt head as with the other one in the picture. I have only 4 left and managed to get all the rest out with just penetrating oil and loads of pateince. The 4 that are left I am waiting till a mate comes around with an oxy type bottle thingy. They all look to have had some kind of anti sieze on the bottom of them. Very thick black stuff that stays glued to them on the last 5 mm of the bolts.

I will shoot off more pics when I have her opened up.

Re calling around I have called 2 wreckers up here but heard nothing back?? I have called them back a couple of times but they say they have been too busy to chase it up?? Strange approach??

[BM]

Certainly sounds like an odd approach. Outboard wreckers busy at this time of year! It's a simple thing really for them to see if they have parts or not. Must be something about you odd Qld'ers ;D ;D

Top two cylinders down in comp a bit could be temperature related. May have gotten a little warm at some stage. I wouldn't even worry about the reduced compression. It's within spec and even if if weren't some consideration of age of engine needs to be applied.

To fix the broken bolts it would be best to take the engine block to an engine shop and have them try to remove them and if they cannot get them out they will drill and insert helicoils. They could also do the remaining 4 for you. Trying to do helicoils yourself is a pain in the arse. The engine shop may not accept a "dressed" engine block though. Need to ask them. They may even require the engine stripped. Not a bad thing really as you can have a close look inside the cylinders and perhaps re-ring the two 2 cylinders to be anal! Also gives you a good look at your bearings and journals.

Try calling Outboard Motor Salvage in Bayswater, Vic or Victorian Outboard Wreckers. You may have better luck with them. There are many others also.

The black substance is most likely Permatex, no 3? The gasket surfaces need to be coated and the bolts upon reassembly to ensure a watertight seal.

Cheers

[malby]

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I have now found a wrecker who claims to have a 'perfect' sandwitch plate and wants $110 for it which seems not too bad. He also claims to have an end cap matching mine and a good link. As you can see from the pic of the old link there is not much left of her so its time for a replacement.

I have included pics of the old sandwitch plate which I cleaned uo ready for welding but decided (along with my welder mate) that she's 'had it' so will chase up the second hand one as mentioned.

Another pic shows the drive shaft housing part that requires welding and you can see that this is not as bad.

Other pics show the inside of the engine block whilst the inner plate was still on. You can see the need for welding and now I have got the plate off there are other issues we are facing. The issue being that in all 5 bolts were broken so we have decided to weld some stainless nuts onto them and see if we can get the bolts out with heat and the new welded nut for leverage. Tried using vice grips and heat but this did nothing except butcher the bolt heads as you can only get the vice grips in on a 45 degree angle which is no good. Failing all of these ideas I will get a guy called Craig Smith who runs a company called Thread Teck who does 'just this sort of thing' for a living. Better him than me!:o

I also threw in some pics of the water pump housing, original impella etc so you could have a good look along with another shot of the lower unit which is needing a clean up. Feel free to comment on any of these parts as I have been appreciating the input.

I took the cylinder block to a local outboard guy for ideas on the broken bolts and he suggested I take off the main cover plate on the same side as where the plugs go in. Not sure what this is called? Water something or others?? He said that this is easily taken off and now I have it this far it would be silly not to? Any thoughts? Apparently there is often corrosion found under this plate and you can weld this up if discovered with this plate off?? Seemed to make good sense to me and after today using the butane bottle to heat and remove the bolts on the inner sideplates (we got 3 out of 4!), I feel more confident to have a go at these smaller bolts. maybe I'm mad??

Let nme know your thoughts,

Thanks as always BM.

You always have great input. Be great to hear from someothers also.;D

Ps. The outboard guy today turned the flywheel and looked at the pistons and said that the engine had never been overheated. Don't know how he could tell that from looking through at the pistons but he seemed very positive about the old Tower of Power.

[BM]

The cracking between the 2 exhaust chambers is not something I personally would worry about. As long as the exterior walls were solid thus creating a non leaking seal is satisfactory.

Waterpump top cover looks ok from what I can see. Stainless cup looks good and the base looks ok. If the rest of the housing has no warping then I would reuse it for sure. Make sure theres a rubber grommet in the top of the housing (where the water tube goes in). The wear plate I can't say because I'm looking at the bottom of it! If there aren't deep circular scores in it from where the impeller runs then it is in good servicable condition. The impeller itself, just replace it. The short vaned Merc impellers don't last like the longer vaned models. Annual replacement is pretty standard.

The gunge in the top of the lower unit (forward of the waterpump base) is normal and no issue. Blow the crud out with some air. There's usually a flat washer and a rubber washer that sit over the shift shaft.

For bolt removal, usually the process of welding a nut on as you suggest, generates enough heat to enable the broken bolt to be undone. Good luck.

Water jacket plate is the plate covering the cylinder "head" so to speak. What happens here is the alloy step or pad that the spark plug screws into, gets corroded at the edges. This step is raised up from the surface beneath it and is sealed against the cover plate. When they corrode too far a water leak develops. Wouldn't hurt to remove it. 7/16 bolts I think they are and should come out without breaking.


Your mechanic was most likely looking in at the exhaust side of the pistons to check for scorched pistons or score marks in the piston skirts or bound rings etc. Overheat an engine and you will normally see some sort of evidence on the exhaust side of the piston since this is the hottest side.

When you fit your new(s/hand) end cap have your mechanic fit 3 seals in there. The book calls for 2 seals but you can fit 3 and it's added protection against water ingress.

Just on the seals. I am an advocate of aftermarket parts although seals are one thing that are best purchased genuine.

[Steeler]

OE seals only as BM suggests, yet to see non gen ones fit as good as the OE ones.

Also once you get around to re assembly do yourself a favor and put a smidgeon of Nickel Anti Size on all your bolts that way in future broken bolts will not be an issue.

[malby]

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Where to from Here?

Today I took the head around to the local Suzuki dealer and also the Yamaha dealer.

They each took one look and told me to quit whilst I'm not too committed.

They both felt that the block would not weld properly and that the pitting around the water jacket holes (have a close look at the walls above the broken/corroded out bolt hole) would not weld up successfully.

The local Merc guy (not my outboard mechanic - Caboolture Marine) said he had a guy named Carl who could weld it up and on my pressing him for how much he guessed about $150.

They all agreed that it would require lots of grinding out of the alloy first and a complete clean back.

Here's the big question???

Am I now throwing good money after bad persisting as I have not spent more than about $200 thus far.

Should I try to source a 2nd hand 'good block'? If so, whaty should I be paying?? Is it worth it??

What would you do from here?

Another merc guy I called seemed to think I could even glue it up with an epoxy called debcon or something?? I will take it to him (a Merc Dealer) early next week for a diagnosis.

Please share your ideas.:-[



I have taken lots of shots of the bottom bearing carrier area for you to see also

Ps. I bought a bottom bearing carrier today for $25 in great condition. I have a sandwitch plate lined up for $110

[Steeler]

As much as i like my Mercs and inline 6's i am thinking if $$$ are not an issue then hunt around for a late model clean runner.

Cheers

[malby]

Thanks Steeler. I am seriously thinking about this?? Be interested in other people's thoughts. Seems there are 2 schools of thought I have come up against.

1. Welding an alloy block never works. A strong opinion shared by a number of outboard guys I've spoken with.
2. People (again outboard mechanics) who say they've seen plenty/heaps welded that still work fine.

As for $$ being no issue "I wish".

Just wanting to be wise, realistic and practical and not lead with my jawbone.

[Steeler]

Something to mull over Malby.

I reckon you can part out what you have and get a few bob for it.

Gearbox
Prop
Switch boxes x 2
Stator
Flywheel
Parts of the cowl
The Power T/Trim

There is certainly quite a few parts there for you to turn into cash and along with all the $$$ you were going to spend on it you are probably not that far away at all from buying a clean used runner.

Just be sure it is a black one alright or Mariner grey will suffice, anything else is a compromise;D;)

[robothefisho]

Theres a 2000 model Tohatsu 120 on ebay at 3 grand with a day left atm. Itd probably be a safe bet.

[BM]

Malby,

I'm not seeing anything in those pics that surprises me. The response from the Yam dealer and the Suzi dealer is to be expected. In fact even a Merc dealer would tell you the same. Nobody wants to know about older engines. Large dealerships often have a 7-10 yr maximum age for engines they will work on. The reason for this is that it means they don't have to work on difficult engines where corrosion has become an issue. They only want the easy engines to work on.

I'm not seeing the pitting you refer to around the broken bolts. I see lots of carbon and crud and gasket leftovers that need to be scraped away with a proper scraper to assess it fully. At this point I would split the crankcase and pull the crank/pistons and rods out to make life a lot easier. The corrosion around the base of the powerhead is not desirable but I also wouldn't worry about it. The exhaust area is well secured around the perimeter by long studs so its not going to have movement issues.

Splitting the crankcase is not any more costly other than time. There is no gasket between the crankcase halves (you use a permatex type sealer which dries to a thin, hard seal) and if you purchase a gasket kit then the gaskets that need replacing in crankcase splitting will be the intake gaskets. With the bare block you can work it easily and scrape and sand and do whatever without fear of shite dropping in the cylinders etc etc. Your mechanic will require ring compressors to reinstall the crank and pistons but he would know that.

Alternately, you could source another block. Probably around $300-500 for a good one from a wrecker. I wouldn't bother but it's your call.

I think you mentioned early in the piece that you are a bit anal? You need to bear in mind that the engine is 25 yrs old, will very likely last for some time yet but won't be brand new. If you can live with that then it will no doubt serve you well!

"Debcon" is actually Devcon. Its a workable putty that dries hard and allow sanding, grinding and drilling. Great stuff!

So if it were my engine or I was doing the job for you, I would strip the engine down, clean up the important surfaces and see what I have. I wouldn't have an issue reusing that block as long as no serious issues were detected upon cleaning it up (which I doubt).

Don't forget in all this that you have gone looking for dramas! and potentially found them. If you had not touched it at all you would be blissfully ignorant and in all reality there will very likely be no net gain from your efforts. :(

If you go searching your hull you will probably find drama there also.

So strip it right down, new set of gaskets and seals and pop her back together and away you go!! You could also hone the cylinders and get carried away and re-ring it for probably no net gain! Also check the top and bottom main bearings. These are standard roller bearings and from a bearing shop (numbers are on the bearing casing) are quite cheap and worth replacing unless whats there is perfect.

Or part it out as suggested by Steeler and look for a replacement. It's an option but not one I would take. Parts values are dropping badly these days as people seek to move unwanted stock via ebay etc. Parts go for a lot less than they are "worth". But the idea is sound.

Give me a call if you want to mate.

Cheers,

Nick

[malby]

Thanks Nick. I tried to PM you for your phone number but your in box is full. If you can PM me your number I'll call you as offered.

[BM]

Hi mate. I didn't think my Inbox was full? Maybe it is!

Anyway, 0419 787 986.

Cheers

[malby]

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I got in there with a drill head wire brush and cleaned the offending areas up a bit so they can be seen clearly. Whilst doing so I managed to gouge out a bolt hole area that was previuosly fine but I figure if the last bolt hole can be welded and built up so can this little bit. I have a good shot now also of the wall and the pitting in there. I never said there was pitting around the bolt holes. Just the wall that go's up from the bolt holes area. Be good to know what this is called as water clearly runs through this wall and it is now nealy half as thick in that spot. (3rd pic top right) Bottom left pic shows other end of head where I'm wondering if it has corroded away in the middle?? Top middle pic shows what I'm wondering is possible corrosion on the top lip of the end cavity? When I wire brushed this it was far softer than the sandwitch plate. It is like sanding soft wood by comparison??:o

[Steeler]

I am thinking that with all that crud your cleaning up and if some is getting into the cylinders then removing the crank case cover and pulling right down is inevitable and believe me putting those pistons back in whilst attached to the crank without the proper merc ring compressors, well lets just say you don't want to go there. Absolute mongrel of a job.

[OPTI]

id strip it and weld it up ,you will need to get a welder that knows what he is doing ,but ive fixed worse than that,i have a set of merc ring compressors for those engines if you want to borrow them .forget using devcon in the exhaust area ,it wont hold on.
was the engine running ok ,idle etc,much rpm drop in gear,before this.

[malby]

Do you know a good welder who can fix this?

Not sure if I'm reading this right but are 'you' a welder? I have a mate who is a top class welder who does ally welding every day for a living but...he does not weld heads and I don't think ever has. I am keen to find one that knows who has a track record.

Thanks for the offer of the merc ring compressors but I'm pretty sure my merc outboard mechaic will have some. Prob is he lives at Ipswitch and I'm at Caboolture so I tend to have a go at pulling down some of this myself (with his say so). He will definitely be re-assembling this mess though.

How long will it take me (or my mechanic?) to pull the remainder of the gear off inc all of the electricals etc?

Have you done this OPTI?

Are you an outboard mechanic?

The engine had 125 psi on the top 2 cylinders and between 135-8 on the bottom 4.

I have never had it in the water as yet due to the guy I bought it off (down your way - at the Tweed) being 'extremely ill', in fact he was on a breathing apparatus and last I heard in Hospital and 'not' in a good way.

I'm actually busting to get it out for its first fish as the Cruise Craft Reef Raider has had a new Bimini and windscreen and is nearly all systems go.

[OPTI]

it wont take you another hour to pull the crank out ,the crank rods and pistons all come out as one assembly,im an out board mechanic by trade i did most of my 4 year apprentice ship working on those tower of power.
there biggest fault is thier reed block assemblies,they are aluminium and have a labrinth seal on the crank ,when this wears the engines stall i n gear or have to idle really high not to stall in gear which damages the gear box.new reed blocks can fix this in some cases ,but usually the crank is worn also and bent,so game over .
your mate should be fine to weld it ,just pre heat the entire block ,and try not to put too much heat in the one spot with the welder,its easy to pull the cyclinder out of round .
then you just need to find a engineer with a mill and endmill the weld down to the original surface,id only do the face on the inner water jacket ,the bottom divider wont matter.
and seeing youve gone this far just bottle brush hone it and put a set of rings in it.
next step for me would be to get the crank out and check those reed blocks take some pics of the labrinth seals and report back

[malby]

Thanks for all of that info Opti. Now where to from here? Sounds like I keep opening her up but which bolts do I undo next? I usually go on the Crowley Marine website for pics of the guts of it and have an old 64-79 manual loaned to me by Finga but it is very basic showing mainly 3 cylinder and talks about timing belts and distributors etc which mine doesn;y have I don't think. To be honest I'm starting to feel out of my depth here but am happy to undo what I can until I get her back to the mechanic. Is the cyliner block cover my next step?

[malby]

I would be interested in finding someone who can do the welding and milling part if you know of anyone as I'm not feeling confident about this all working out. In fact if they want to finish the job altogether then I'd be open to that at the right price. 2nd hand parts are out there by the score it seems on these babbies, inc cranks, reed block assembles etc. Any suggestions?

[OPTI]

have you got the fly wheel off ?,youll need a merc flywheel puller ,then top end cap,then the crankcase cover,then wriggle the crank assembly out

[malby]

All of the electricals etc are still connected. Do they come off first?

[OPTI]

yep all the electrics and accesories,fly wheel has to come of so you can get the stator off then the top end cap bolts,then the crank case bolts,etc

[BM]

Malby, the electrics are fairly straight forward but as a newby you might be best to take a few pics before removing them, just to make life easier on the reassembly.

To remove the upper end cap, crack the crankcase bolts first. This will make removal fairly straight forward and you wont end up with it broken like the bottom one :(

I missed what I assume was your call last night? I didn't realise I had left the phone in the car mate. Sorry about that. Will call you shortly.

Cheers

[darkside]

Malby,
The guy Caboolture Marine are talking about, is a bit of a freak when it comes to welding ( Can weld anything, and neat as). I have seen some of his welds and it looks like he knows what he is doing, but I don't know a lot about what you are trying to weld, but I do know if they say he can do it, I am guessing they would know. Your a better man than me tackling that job, I could not for the life of me get it all back together, good luck with it.

[malby]

Thanks for the feedback darkside. I am not doing this alone. My outboard mechanic began the job and no doubt will finish it too. He just lives a long way away so not easy for me to just pop by all the time when I have a question. I'm more or less partnering with him in this. He is just getting me to do as much as I can to save a quid or 2 which I really appreciate. I've got a fair bit on for the next 2 weeks so the job will need to sit for a bit but when I have the head off, pistone out etc, and can see any other issues that may or may not be there I will decide if I will go that way or what.

Opti I spoke with my mate who is a Truck workshop head mechanic who saw the engine running and he says he thinks the crank is/will be fine. Anyway, I guess we'll know soon enough and I'll post my pics up with whatever I find in there.

I'm currently soaking the sideplates in fresh water to remove the built up salt deposits and carbon etc. Any tips on removing the salt that is stuck to them anyone?

Darkside it would be good if you knew someone who has had there head welded by him and has first hand knowledge/experience of how things turned out.

[darkside]

Malby,

I know someone who had a motorbike frame welded by him. I know it's nothing like an outboard, but he was told it couldn't be welded, and he is now happier than a dog with two d*K*s. If it's the same guy, he is German and lives up towards Wam ?

You would think Caboolture Marine would have the bits, they have more 2nd hand parts than just about anyone.

And I know it's completely off topic but I cant be bothered to start a new post, a mate of mine found a 1 meter barra in Caboolture today, it was dead. !!

[malby]

Good to know and I will keep this in mind as I move to that point. As for Cabo Marine having the bits yes they have sold me some already. I've seen their stock and its big but I don't think they have any good heads??!! Not for a Mariner 115 anyway but I sure will ask if needed.

Re the barra a guy i fish with had one boatside in the Passage last year and it flipped and the hooks popped out totally gutting him! It was about 1 mtr also but very alive!

[darkside]

True, I was a touch sceptical about the Barra , but he is a reliable source and he eats sleeps and breaths fishing. And yes the big dude at Cabo Marine seems to know his stuff.

[Steeler]

Grab yourself a little wire brush wheel to stick in your drill to clean up salt and crud build up on the inside of your covers.

[malby]

Thanks Steeler. That's what I've been using up till now on the lower unit and the sandwitch plate to clean things up for welding. I just got a fright when I used it in around the bolt holes where I'd pulled out the inner exhaust/water cover. The brush had really ripped in quick in this area. Seemed to be much softer alloy and I did not want to bugger up the side plates if I could have avoided it. I was thinking of trying softer options first if they existed...ie using hot water/detergent or even vinegar as I have read on the net??

[Steeler]

Go for it you won't hurt it. Also the deep crevices at the back of the block once you have the rear water cover off are good old fashioned elbow grease scratching around with the head of a screwdriver.

Give em all a good blast with high pressure washer also, get Finga to pop by with his temporary Karcher freebie.

[Steeler]

Hey Opti i have always wondered what Merc make there linings out of by geez i have had some bad ones in my time but never had to replace one they have always come up with a quick hone.

Mate and i reco'd a blueband 80 once that had sat for 8years frozen up in 3 and 4. the result of water ingress from buggered bottom crank seals and a quick hone and they came up like bought ones.

[malby]

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Just back from a week away and today I borrowed a butane heat gun and undid the bolts holding the cllinder block cover...broke 1 which is annoying as I really took my time and used heat but stuff happens I guess.

So I'm far from any expert but am thinking that it all looks pretty good behind this cover. See the first 2 pics and let me know what you reckon those who are in the know.

So now I guess I begin the job or dismantling the remainder of the engine to enable the block to be cleaned properly and welded up.

Bearing in mind that all the electricals are still conected and so are the carbies etc etc....
how long should it take an outboard mechanic to strip the remainder down to the block....and, the all important...how long will it take an outbaord mechanic to put this all back together? I mean the entire engine back on the boat etc. This will help me to cost this all out and see if its going to be worth continuing.

Thanks in advance for your input guys.

[robothefisho]

If you pay an outboard mechanic full rates to sort this out it won't be anywhere near worth while. Thats after you find one thats competent to work on it and willing to. If you have a mate who is an outboard mechanic suck up to him.

[BM]

Water jacket around the cylinder tops looks pretty good mate (some close ups of any suss sparkplug pads would be good). If there were issues it would be around the spark plug holes. The alloy pads would be eaten away which means the cover plate cannot seal on the pad and you get an external water leak. They can also get pinholes in the combustion chamber but your comps would be down in that case and you can check when the block is stripped anyway.

Best off to strip it down yourself if you think you are able. Looks to me that you only need that one broken away bolt hole welded up on the inner exhaust plate and thats about it. $100 tops for that.

[malby]

Thanks BM.

The spark plug pads all looked pretty good but I will take a closer look now you've mentioned it.

Yesterday I took the engine 'as is' to my local engineering shops and got quotes for working on it as it is with all the bits still attached.

An engine welder quoted me $100 to weld it but was worried that heat from the weld may warp the piston chamber. He said there is only 2 1000's of an inch tolerence and that he would need to grind away all of the corrosion before beginning the weld and that this would leave him fairly close to the chamber on that bottom piston area over the broken away bolt hole. There would be no gaurentee that it would be ok. He said the only way to be sure is to pull the engine apart so the chambers could be measured after the weld. This leads me to my outboard guy.

I called him for an idea of what it would cost to pull it down, how long it would take, and how long to reassemble it. He said about 2 hours to strip it....but could be a very long time to reassemble it. He was not willing to commit to a defined time frame and even though he is working at about half price for me it all started sounding too expensive.

I also took it to the engine machining shop and they said they could do the exhaust area/face for $120.

As for me stripping it I am really not confident.

I am planning to take it all to the local Merc dealer today...Cunninghams Marine where the head mechanic has offered to have a look etc.

Will keep you posted but please keep an eye out for a 2nd hand 20" engine leg engine for me under the $5000 mark as this is how it's looking which I am ok with as long as I can snag a decent one. Any advice here is also very welcome.

[malby]

Thanks Robo. My O/Board mech is a friend of a friend and it sounds as though it could take quite a bit of time to reassemble it. BTW, I checked out that Tohatsu and it had lots of corrosion on the leg and even some on the cowling so who knows what's happening on the inside? I also called up an Outboard guy who said I be wise to avoid it as apparently early Tohatsu's had issues. Any other leads on 20" leg O/boards would be appreciated.

[BM]

Not sure why your mechanic has told you it would take a long time to reassemble as they are not difficult. Bit of a prick getting all the pistons back in the pots but no big deal. All the rest is straightforward.

Have you found any other engine blocks? This may be an easier alternative if you can pick one up for say $300.

Sent you a PM also mate.

Cheers

[robothefisho]

Thanks Robo. My O/Board mech is a friend of a friend and it sounds as though it could take quite a bit of time to reassemble it. BTW, I checked out that Tohatsu and it had lots of corrosion on the leg and even some on the cowling so who knows what's happening on the inside? I also called up an Outboard guy who said I be wise to avoid it as apparently early Tohatsu's had issues. Any other leads on 20" leg O/boards would be appreciated.

Hey Malby,
Re that corrosion on the leg, from memory of the photos only it looked to be some paint peel/deterioration/corrosion which is no big deal and pretty common for the earlier toheys. I'm unaware of any issues with them and don't think the motor has changed in the last 10 years but could well be wrong. I will keep an eye out for somthing decent in my travels. Cheers