Yamaha F115A v Suzuki DF140

[matt fraser]

Decision Time, with the boat show later in the week, its time to start talking deals for a motor for my V17 project boat. I'm looking at a XL shaft model, 25inch, Four Stroke around 115hp +

I've been a Yamaha man for a long time, and can't fault my current F60. So obviously its the first stable I look for, and the F115A would be the model of choice. 1742CC, and it comes in at 195kg and around 16.5 - 17K.

Honda - I'm hearing more and more good things about them, but prices start at 18k for the 115hp, which is the heaviest at 220kg, at 2354cc, its the largest capacity - same block as the 150Hp.

Merc 115hp, 1732cc, 186kg - The lightest, smallest capacity and cheapest of the lot under 16K - I could be swayed that way by a good deal.

Suzuki - The DF140 is a very attractive motor, 2044cc, 191kg, an extra 25Hp for around the same price as the Yammy, and I keep hearing good things about this motor.

All motors are EFI, and I believe all come with digital guages.

Along with motor prices, I have to factor in fitting cost, initial service costs and 12 month service cost. If they can't quote me on those in writing, they won't be getting my business.

Has anyone been down this same track recently who can give some good advice? or anyone who owns any of these motors, can let me know their experiences. As you can see from the title, my top two at the moment are the Yammy and Suzuki, but I'm open to suggestion - as long as its four stroke.

Much appreciated,

Matt

[Noelm]

I kind of doubt you will get a truly informed comment here, you will only get praise from guys that have brand X and will not have anything else, the 140 Suzie has been around for a very long time, and in a way is quite old technology wise, but it is a relable old motor none the less, (don't believe the old "only 128HP" rubbish) the Mercury sounds like a good bet, when I was motor shopping (90HP) the Merc was mega heavy, so I did not even price them, the Yamaha 115 has been getting a few bad reports from the US with a recall and various other issues, now, how that will relate to us here in Aus is anyone's guess, Honda seems to be slowly sliding away these days (my opinion only, OK) there seems to be less and less, and very fer dealers in any area, and they are heavy too, now none of that is any real help, just what I have found out when I was shopping, and personal observations from mates boats and so on.

[business class]

you should get the 140 Suzuki for around the 16,500 fitted maybe a touch better at the show. I had the 140 suzuki and there a great engine and very reliable, i put 1200 hrs on it before i sold it and was hassle free. As for getting a price for serviceing thats near impossible as every service is different for what they may or may not need to do, they could give u a standard service price but that may vary. John Eddie will be at the show with the haines group im sure, get his card and use him as he is the mobile guy for suzuki and will look after you for servicing thats for sure, very good priced too. hope that helps and good luck.

[Tickleish]

Difinatly the Suzy 140, After owning numerous 17 - 19 Haines they just get better with more HP. The Yammi although reliable is very doughy and heavy.

The suzy has been around for ages(since the 70's or 80's in the sierra) and will give that much needed extra power and also a weight advantage.

[Smithy]

Just go with price and get a mobile mechanic to do your servicing every second or third time and just do the minor oil changes yourself.

I wouldn't have a problem with any of them. Merc will be fine if the cheapest. In the salt though the black shows up the white salt crystals a lot more. Would be the same for the Suzuke I guess. The old Merc control boxes weren't the best. I am guessing they have changed them and made them better. The Suzuki 90-140 series are not a bulletproof as many people will lead you to believe. The older ones especially but I am guessing they have got them spot on now with billeted aluminium for the heads etc.

The Yammie is a safe bet. The control box is good. Their corrosion control seems good and their paintwork has always been good to clean and get the salt off. My mobile outboard mechanic really pushed me to go Yamaha last time I repowered even though I didn't purchase through him and I was open to all offers.

The Hondas never seem to be competitive in price. They would be a safe bet though. Ringing Spaniardking to see if he knows of any demo ones or similar getting around would be worth a go. They still seem to be a bit susceptible to that corrosion look though it doesn't seem to cause any problems, the same as the way they seem to discolour on the leg.

[TheSaint]

End of the day I would be going for the most HP you can afford..

[Camhawk88]

I would definitely go for the Suzi extra HP means faster and likely better fuel economy at higher cruise speeds. Also better power to weight ratio.

I am a happy owner of a 115 Yammi 4 stroke btw but would love the extra grunt of the Suzi.

[Jarrah Jack]

I kind of doubt you will get a truly informed comment here, you will only get praise from guys that have brand X and will not have anything else,

I think Noel would like to see this thread go 30 pages.

A 115 up against a 140........I think you just talked yourself into the 140 Matt. Don't want to die wondering how fast you can get that heavily modified beast going.

[Noelm]

That is a pretty good case for the 140, when you consider all the others for the same outlay and weight are 115HP, but I would still shop around, search forums like this and try to sift through the crap, and dont be afraid to "internet shop" that being, call some dealers from interstate, you never know, some might have a motor that they want to shift, we buy stuff from the other side of the world, a few hundred k's will be a snap! Oh and JJ, nah, I think I have had enough of pages of banter about the same thing over and over.

[NAGG]

Hi Matt

It would be pretty hard to go past the 140 Zuki - same weight & 25 more horses @ the same price :P - A tried & tested motor to boot.

Chris

[tropicrows]

When talking HP you need to check the actual HP generated at the prop, NOT what's is written on the cowling. Its not uncommon to manufactures to over or under rate their engines by a small %..

[justinsmith]

I run a 24ft Kevlacat which came with Yam 115 4strokes - they were good but as they got older cost me a lot of money. I repowered with 2x 140 Suzukis and have never looked back - better fuel cons, and a lot more grunt especially when taking on the SP Bar.... I used John Eadie for my last service and he was excellent.... also the suzi warranty takes some beating !!

[Noelm]

When talking HP you need to check the actual HP generated at the prop, NOT what's is written on the cowling. Its not uncommon to manufactures to over or under rate their engines by a small %..
yes that is correct, however to get TRUE HP is almost impossible, you can troll the forums and get all sorts of crap and "I was told" stuff, but the actual output of ANY motor will be that close to stated that it would be not worth pursuing! plenty has been written about certain brands (and funnily enough, it is always the same brand) that owners say put out well in excess of 10% more HP, and the never ending story about a well known 140, that is 128HP, never been substantiated, but still spoken about often!

[robothefisho]

Any of them will be a safe bet. The Honda and Suzuki probably the cheapest to service. I've driven all except the late model Honda and I wouldn't fault any of them. But on face value the Suzuki and Honda will perform the best, there is no substitue for cubes.

[tropicrows]

I have one of those well known 140 Noelm, and I agree with you 100% but it's still worth asking the questions or doing a bit of homework to satisfy yourself before forking out thousands on a motor.
Getting back to the original question, they are all good motors and in my view it depends who gives the best deal for the HP and servicing costs. Don't forget the colour it's gotta match to boat.....

[matt fraser]

Thanks everyone, just the sort of feedback, experience, and opinions I'm after. Keep 'em coming.

The Suzuki is looking like its coming out on top, $$$ will be the deciding factor.

Cheers,

Matt

[rodneyk]

Hi Mat going thru the same @ the moment new boat has been ordered i have always had yamaha 4 strokes 40,60,80,100,all been faultless but now there is nothing between 115hp-150 4 stroke which only leaves 1 choice suzuki you should be able to jag one for16k fitted i would think basic fitup that is they may also
be offering some other sweeteners i hope . There is a lot of 6.5 kevla cats with 140 suzies running around and most seem happy as we all know cats are the yardstick for any motor cheers Rod

[Swanie1975]

hi matt i recently (last month) repowered with a 140 suzi 4 stroke and have only done 10hrs so far. im very impressed with the performance so far, very little vibration and extremely quiet at idle and trolling revs, about the same as any other modern motor above that i reckon.

my boat is a haines 550br and weighs 1150kgs plus anyone that gets onboard and gear. the motor has very strong performance espec in the mid-range with great holeshot (currently spinning a 19p prop) the top speed is 69kmh on the gps. i have faster top speed and better all round performance than the 140hp 2stroke before with approx a third of the gas usage;D.

the best price i could get was $16200 fitted with a (supposedly) boat show only special deal of garmin gps and 2 x gmi 10 gauges fitted with nmea set-up and the info available is incredible, otherwise the motor would of come with standard analogue gauges which IMO are pretty crap. you can negotiate these gauges with haines outside of the show. i said id buy an etec if they didnt give me the special deal:) lol

i dealt with whitewater marine down here on the goldie and they are great. the first service is at 20hrs and will be about $280.

cheers ryan:)

[Giveitacrack]

Talking motors i wish yammie would release a lightweight 4 stroke 90 the same as the new F70 to compete with suzi and honda.Everytime i have heard about the DF 140 only being 128hp at the prop it has been a yammie dealer trying to sell the f115 which they reckon is closer to 135hp.

[honda900]

You can find the output of most outboards if you look hard enough, the 128hp suzi info is a myth. the actual tested figure is 138Hp.

the following link contains the american certification data for engines, so you should be able to find what you are looking for.

http://www.epa.gov/OMS/certdata.htm#marinesi


Note the heading on the columns - ALL the numbers are in metric form. HP on the spreadsheet is in KW, torque is in NM - you need to convert it for HP and ft-lbs!

Go to the "models" tab and do a search for "DF" and it will take you right there. In the case of the DF-140 the power is listed at 102.97 - that's KW! Convert to Hp and it comes out 138.085.

The below is from the spreadsheet titled "mar-si07-09.zip"

This doesn't look so good, but its basically:

model, displacement, KW, rpm, torque, rpm

DF115/DF115Z 1950 84.58 5500 159 4500
DF140/DF140Z 2044 102.97 6000 165 4500
DF100 1950 73.55 5500 150 4000
DF150/DF150Z 2867 110.33 5500 235.2 4500
DF175/DF175Z 2867 128.71 5800 245 4500
DF200/DF200Z 3614 147.1 5500 307.7 3500
DF225/DF225Z 3614 165.49 5500 311.6 4500
DF250/DF250Z 3614 183.88 5800 313.6 4500
DF250S 4028 183.88 5800 343.2 4000
DF300/DF300Z 4028 220.65 6000 343.2 4500

Regards
HOnda.

[pilchardjones]

Matt
I had both these motors on my last boat - 6m Goldstar platey. Both were excellent and I would have either again. I found pretty similar performance despite the hp difference.
Steve

[honda900]

Steve,

we had a thread a while ago on both of these motors on the same hulls, it was interesting to note the the 115 had to run a fair bit higher in the rev range to mantain the same speed, did you notice that as well?

Regards
Honda

[matt fraser]

More great information there, just what I was after.

Most of your boats are a fair bit bigger and heavier than the V17. I'm guessing the hull weight will be around 600kg when finished. So she should go alright with 115Hp plus.

I've been going down the F115 path since I started the project, but this has certainly swayed me towards the DF140.

Thanks again for the valued info,

Matt

[Argle]

As others have already mentioned - give Jon Eadie a call!! He will supply, fit and service your engine and he is mobile. He is local to your area as well - I have Jon look after my 175 and his service and price is second to none. Get him on 0407-738731

Cheers
Scott

[Noelm]

Steve,

we had a thread a while ago on both of these motors on the same hulls, it was interesting to note the the 115 had to run a fair bit higher in the rev range to mantain the same speed, did you notice that as well?

Regards
Honda
I guess that has to be the case, lower HP= smaller prop for same boat, smaller prop= more RPM for a certain speed. Whether those stated figures are 100% acurate or not, at least it puts some of the 'scuttlebut" about certain motors being only X HP whereas the competitors lower HP model is higher! believe me, if the Yamaha 115 was actually 135, it would be marketed as such and sold for more money, Yamaha are not silly!

[rodneyk]

I forgot to mention i have been out with brett( deathship) v17c haines hunter before he sold it f115 yam and it was spot on heaps of power as we all know you cant travel everywhere at light speed in a boat probably think the yamaha would be perfect also and will be worth more in the long run (imo) but they are expensive both motors will pull the arse of your boat down a bit at rest which is something you need to consider as 17 has a fairly narrow waterline beam at transom did you rebuild transom ??? 25 inch with your boat only being say 650 kg 100hp would be consideration dont know how much saving though just my thoughts Rod

[matt fraser]

I forgot to mention i have been out with brett( deathship) v17c haines hunter before he sold it f115 yam and it was spot on heaps of power as we all know you cant travel everywhere at light speed in a boat probably think the yamaha would be perfect also and will be worth more in the long run (imo) but they are expensive both motors will pull the arse of your boat down a bit at rest which is something you need to consider as 17 has a fairly narrow waterline beam at transom did you rebuild transom ??? 25 inch with your boat only being say 650 kg 100hp would be consideration dont know how much saving though just my thoughts Rod

Yep, Fully rebuilt transom, now 25 inch, fully rebuilt stringers etc. The project thread is on here somewhere. I know the weight is an issue on this narrow hull, that's why I extended the transom, and may add rear pods either side of the engine as well. I could get away with a 90-100Hp, but want a bit of extra poke, as I plan to pull skiers and do fishing comps where the speed is nice to have.

Thanks,

Matt

[Carry]

Hi Matt,

I tried to send you some info on the Suzi 140's mate, but your PM box is full. PM me when you free up some space and I'll send it through.

Cheers

Luke

[matt fraser]

Well, just back from the boat show, and still undecided :-?

Prices are pretty close between the Yamaha F150 and Suzuki DF140.

I checked out the Mercs as well and none of the Merc dealers really wanted to sell me a fourstroke 115, but they all raved about the Optis. 25kg ligher and 2K cheaper than the other motors I'm looking at, but they couldn't quite talk me around.

No real sweeteners from Yammy, they know they are on a good thing. The 2012 model has a few enhanced features on the 2011 model, but a few hundred dollars dearer. They are offering 4.99% finance, which could be appealing.

The DF140 is a nice looking motor, I couldn't find a zuk as low as 16200 fitted, and with the 2 x Garmin GMI 10 guages Swanie, so you did well there. Sounds like boat show prices aren't much different to regular prices. Those touch screen guages did look good.

It was good to talk to so many dealers in the one day, and nut out the finer points of various models.

Still a tough decision, as I have never paid that much for a car, let alone a boat motor.

Cheers,

Matt

[Smithy]

There is a massive weight penalty to be paid going to the F150 Yamaha. It is about 30kg heavier and I really felt it on the Stabi with the full pod. What are you looking at doing with the HH with regard jacking plate/pod etc.? Also your fuel tank placement? You'd really want to build it forward to equalise the weight of the motor at the back. An F150 is going to be like a lot of those bass boats where they sit down in the arse and you are going to have to be careful coming off the plane etc. so that a wave doesn't roll up over the back of the transom like some of them. If you want to use it out around the bay islands in a bit of slop or something I'd be sticking to either the F115 or DF140.

[matt fraser]

Sorry Smithy, Typo there I meant the F115 not F150, definitely too heavy and much more expensive.

I will be putting my fuel tank central, and my two big deep cycle batteries up front to alleviate some weight from the rear.

Sorry we didn't get to catch up again,

Cheers,

Matt

[pilchardjones]

Steve,

we had a thread a while ago on both of these motors on the same hulls, it was interesting to note the the 115 had to run a fair bit higher in the rev range to mantain the same speed, did you notice that as well?

Regards
Honda

G'day Honda
It was a few years ago now but I think I ran the f115 around 5000 to get 22-23 it's and the suzi was 4800-5000 to run around 24-25kts
Definitely a difference, but not huge both were excellent trouble free motors.
Steve