View Full Version : Could not believe this happened to me V6 Yammy on 5 cylinders for 1 year !
Lucky 1
10-08-2011, 09:52 PM
Hi everyone
I am a little embarrassed to write about this but it really happened. I purchased a 6.3 Whittley last year at auction (yes it was a risk), and accordingly did not start the motor (v6 yammy 2-stroke) until it was fully serviced and inspected by my regular marine mechanic. All went well after that, the motor ran fine, sounded quiet and smooth, maybe a little hard to start when cold, but hey thats 2-strokes. The other thing I noticed is that I couldnt get it up to 5500 revs, hence I replaced the original prop with a solas 15.5 inch prop. I would have thought the original 17 inch would have been perfect, however each boat is different.
Some 15 months went past and the boat was overdue for its annual service, I had also racked up approximately 70 hours on the clock. My regular marine mechanic (for the past 8 years) had wound up with the associated dealer yard, hence I had to source another mechanic. Yatala Yamaha was my choice and the 1st question he had asked when I picked up the boat was how I thought the engine was running. It turns out the number 5 ignition lead had been severed by being crimped in error by a support bolt. The evidence was in front of me as Shane showed me 5 dirty plugs, and 1 plug that looked brand new ! Thats right the engine had run on 5 cylinders all that time and I was none the wiser! I have had a boat licence before I could drive(over 20 years), so this has blown me away!
I would also like to give Yatala Yamaha a good plug if I may, not because they picked this problem up (thats their job), however Shane spent a good half an hour with me after the service, and I can tell his passion is his work. Paul also contacted me the next work day to see how it all went (bloody fantastic now I have got 6 cylinders). I just think that's great service. I now get 6200 rpm from the new prop, and will probably change back to the old one.
Steeler
10-08-2011, 10:05 PM
Good to hear a good story about a members experience, sounds like your happy with there service and when your parting with your hard earned that's all that counts.
Good stuff
wayno60
10-08-2011, 10:14 PM
Good on YY for picking up on the prob and even the fact to ring you the next day to see how it all went is very good. Now ive never owned a v6 but wouldnt you pick up on the fact it wasnt running on all cyclinders, like at idle or just off im thinking you feel the miss??
Lucky 1
10-08-2011, 10:26 PM
Thanks for your reply wayno, the fact that I didn't feel anything is what has dumbfounded me. Looking back the only thing that could have given it away is that it ran a little rough when it started on a cold morning. I have had 150 hp v6's before, and my ear is usually a pretty good diagnostic tool. This has me flattened. It also shows however how good these modern(ish) 2-strokes are (2001 model). Ran fine at idle(I know that sounds odd).
Muddy Toes
10-08-2011, 10:31 PM
I would also like to give Yatala Yamaha a good plug if I may
This should be the last time you can do this now its firing on all 6 cylinders now hey?
;D:D::)
Lucky 1
10-08-2011, 10:36 PM
Very Funny Muddy Toes, I had to read it a few times before it sank in !!
cormorant
10-08-2011, 11:20 PM
You won't be the only one out there. With the electronic idle and chokes on motors and a computer that stops them stalling, changes timing and injector pulse they will run smooth. Not reaching WOT is the give away along with carbon on the plugs and prop hub as the motor runs overloaded . Very smooth design with a v6 so hard to pick. I pick it on cats as you can see motors next to each other and see the vibration difference , slightly different revs and noise. A single motor is much harder let alone a unknown boat.
Hope the dealer did a decarb on it as the overloaded motor would possibly have carbon on top of pistons and unswe rings and it can lead to a runaway motor or worse hole in a piston. Just ask him and he will sell you a couple of cans of engine tuner if he hasn't done it. There is also some fuel additives that will help clean it out.
Worth keeping a eye on compressions as well. Confirm what they were and check again after 20 hours as can get scuffed piston skirts/ bores
Glad you posted it as people snigger when I tell em to do a WOT run leaving for the day and same when they come home as it tells you if you have any motor , fuel or prop issues often long before you get stranded. Keep the WOT , revs and speed writen on the dash. If it is not close ( depending on load) all the time look for the problem.
Like with so many problems people have it is always a good start to look at boats tests or ask someone who has a sistership or the same powerplant on a similar hull. Even with that I have been caught out with a boat that was carrying water due to a small split in the hull- carried a bit of weight depending on how much water got in to sealed compartments.
It will feel like a new boat and the ecconomy will be - well like a 2 stroke!!!!;D Especially now it will be burning that extra 16% of fuel.
Lucky 1
10-08-2011, 11:35 PM
Thanks for the great reply cormorant, great advice, and explains why I couldn't feel a problem. I feel like I have a new toy. The fuel flow meter was reading 36 lph at 4000 rpm and now reads 31 lph at 4000rpm(just under 14% improvement). I am also getting just over 1.5km/l vs 1.3km/l (13.3% better)before the problem was identified. It feels like I am driving a different boat. I cant wait for my next big offshore trip, that will really show the difference. I will also give them a call about the engine tuner.
cormorant
10-08-2011, 11:55 PM
Different companies call it different things and have various instructions. It is basically a pressure pack or several of carb style cleaner that you spray into the inlet manifold till it stalls out the motor , let is sit and then restart , do again and then give the motor a run. The soution disolves the soft carbon deposits and helps tloosen the hard carbon to break down and it all gets smoked and burnt out the exhaust. Use the old plugs as it can pit the fancy new ones.
If you were using a quality semsynethetic oil with lots of detergents in it then these days the carbon build up may not be huge but then again it might be. I have seen some exhaust ports down to 50% of size and some very ashmatic motors that just don't breathe.
Not sure if they used a boescope to check for bore scuffing or carbon deposits?? If they didn't see lots of deposits they may not have bothered but you really can't see the buildup under rings
It'll run cooler now as well.
FishHunter
11-08-2011, 05:49 AM
Can you imagine the outcry if that was an Etec instead of a yammy ?
ozscott
11-08-2011, 07:43 AM
Fishhunter...its not an engine problem mate. Quality control etc sure but in fact all this shows is that the Yammy V6 is a stonking motor that can run a cyl down without too much drama. The accusations levelled at etec are due to engineering and design not some goose cutting through a lead (and with the Japanese that is a VERY rare beast anyway).
Now where's one of those long etec threads again... :)
Lucky - bet she starts at the ramp nicely now!
Cheers
mustang5
11-08-2011, 08:02 AM
Haha good result in the end, at least you now know you have a tough motor!!!
They are a smooth engine, and came home on 4 cylinders with a blocked carb once... Only noticed it mid range but someone not as paranoid as me would find it hard to notice.
Can you imagine the outcry if that was an Etec instead of a yammy ?
No outcry with it being a Yammi ....... it ran & didn't go bang!
FishHunter
11-08-2011, 09:16 AM
Fishhunter...its not an engine problem mate. Quality control etc sure but in fact all this shows is that the Yammy V6 is a stonking motor that can run a cyl down without too much drama. The accusations levelled at etec are due to engineering and design not some goose cutting through a lead (and with the Japanese that is a VERY rare beast anyway).
Now where's one of those long etec threads again... :)
Lucky - bet she starts at the ramp nicely now!
Cheers
I know exactly what it is I was taking the piss
johncar
11-08-2011, 09:19 AM
Yeah don't beat yourself up for not picking it. I had a similar experience years ago with a 115 V4 Evinrude after a service, and I too thought I knew enough to pick something like that, it just seemed a bit less responsive than what I remembered but it started well and seemed to run smooth enough. I did several trips out fishing just wondering if it was just my imagination. The boat had ample power to weight so I guess running on 3 cylinders was no effort. Anyway it got the better of me and I knew my way around outboards pretty well so I am out fishing, off comes the cowl and I starts checking all the ignition circuit to each cylinder and found one cylinder to have no ignition. Traced it back to the low voltage connector to the primary side of the coil. Just pushed the connector together another couple of mm and voila, ignition. Yey back to normal and felt better than I ever remembered it.
ozscott
11-08-2011, 11:27 AM
I know exactly what it is I was taking the piss
Sorry mate - shoud have picked up on that! Cheers
A good story & result Lucky it should go like a rocket with the right prop on it.
fishfeeder
11-08-2011, 12:07 PM
Its amazing how many motor problem happen after getting a service done !!
I had an issue with my 200hp Evinrude. A simple plastic shaft holder/adjuster on the intake Butterflies loosen. Which meant one side would close when the motor was working, (eg. getting on the plane) but the motor would run great after backing off the throttle to idle and low revs, because the butterflies would work fine until the vacuum and spring would get to great and close off one side of the intake !!.... without the motor running everything worked perfect.
Cost me well over $600 of trouble shooting and in the end I found it myself while out in the middle of Moreton Bay after breaking down on the way to Tangalooma. I had to pull the cowl off and the front cover of the motor and get the girlfriend to drive while I watched the motor to see what was happening and all this was after the mechanic supposedly found and fixed the problem.... To his credit he tighten the screw and adjusted the springs on the butterflies for nothing...
Haven't had a problem since with the motor, But its up for a service soon !!!!
Cheers
Brett
cormorant
11-08-2011, 12:59 PM
In this case it was a good mechanic who worked out something was up and didn't just screw in another plug and take the $. Again if you can ever give feedback to a mechanic of any slight issues or changes from last service it may lead them to actually look into a small problem and diagnose the issue. I did say good mechanic
Dignity
11-08-2011, 07:33 PM
Cormorant, good mechanics are worth their weight in gold, hang on to them if you can. I have one up here on the sunny coast, reasonably priced but he knows his stuff, shame I just bought a new yammie 4st which means he will miss a little on the maintenance side, but I still have my 30hp 2 st he can service.
Lucky 1
11-08-2011, 09:12 PM
Back on line after a long day at work. Thanks to all for contributing to this thread. I don' t feel so flattened now after some of this feedback.
I originally purchased the boat at auction and hence took a risk. One of the positives was that auctioneers don't usually detail the merchandise, you get what you see, and the motor "appeared" well maintained. The other positive was that I recall back in the day(2001) that the Yammy v6 was a well sought after motor (the dawn of the 4stroke era, when weight was still an issue). I guess when something happens like this, the proof is in the pudding, but that being said, it is still early days yet.
Another point to add is that we never stop learning. You think you are at the stage where you think you are so tuned to the motor that you can tell the water temperature by the hum of the engine, and then something like this crosses your path !
Spaniard_King
12-08-2011, 05:45 AM
Good choice of username in this instance!
The V6 yammy 2 stroke does not have electronic idle control nor an ECU (these are only found on EFI engines), you have simply been "LUCKY"enough to have a strong engine which is serving you well.
I would expect your fuel economy to improive somewhat as well. Good to hear some some positive feedback for the service side of the boating industry which more often than not cops a bagging.
johncar
12-08-2011, 07:53 AM
A friend of mine had an interesting issue with his 200 Evinrude. He didn't use it a lot in the 14 years he owned it. I think only about 100 or so hours. Anyhow it had a power head replacement due to a faulty VRO at about 30 hours and ever since that, at idle it would often just stall. It went back a few times to a major dealer at the time and it was supposedly fixed but the problem persisted possibly for about 10 years. He just learned to live with it although it annoyed him. The engine ran great otherwise. There was also a little bit of oil residue that dibbled out when the motor was tilted, but the mechanic said they all do that to a degree, being probably true.
So anyway one day he was looking around under the cowl to try and find where the oil was coming from and what he discovered was the fuel line coming off the small inline filter was not pushed onto the filter but just butting up to it. So from what he told me the filter must be under suction when the engine is running and that would hold the hose on sufficiently when the engine was running at higher RPM but at idle with lower vacumm on the fuel line it would suck enough air to stall the engine. So there you go, those old Evinrudes run even when the fuel line is not attached lol.
Oh and once attached and clamped it was perfect again and he was a happy camper to find it himself.
He used to get his motor serviced every year or two by the dealer and I thought that plastic filter was a service replacement part but it was obviously never looked at. Bit of a worry.
timddo
12-08-2011, 09:24 AM
deleted posted. Forgot what i was going to say8-)
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