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rainbowrascal
02-08-2011, 09:53 AM
I recently went fishing with a mate of mine on his boat up off Rooneys in Hervey Bay, launched on a week day at 5am and travelled 1.5 hrs to our fishing spot to target some snapper. We arrived and sounded, finding a great showing of bait and snapper. We proceeded to anchor and then re anchored so we were on the spot. In this time two more boats joined us, one proceeded to drift fish with plastics, while the other anchored near us. We started to collect some live bait and sent some drift baits out the rear. We had just settled in when a patrol boat pulled alongside and asked to check our equipment. The boat is a 6m Tabs with a 140 Suzuki 4 stroke and is not 2 years old yet. We have a VHF radio and Epirb and all the required safety equipment. Due to the newness of the boat the owner thought all was fine, however the flares were several weeks out of date, but obviously in perfect working order if required in an emergency. The patrol boat officers made us pack up there and then and told us to return to the boatramp, which we were duly forced to do. On top of this we were fined $200 for our troubles. The so called officers just checked one of the other boats, leaving one totally uninspected before flying off to do some more revenue raising. Subsequently talking to a number of people about this incident, I have found some inspections on other boats out at sea, with flares months out of date, the boat owners have only received warnings. Why did we have to go back to the boatramp when we had epirbs and vhf radios on board !!!! I think the system sucks and the so called officer in question was just being an arsehole.>:(>:(>:(

Jarrah Jack
02-08-2011, 10:21 AM
Too much power for the size of their brains by the sound of it. Happens to a lot when they pull on a uniform.

Noelm
02-08-2011, 10:29 AM
I guess in a way they can order you back to the ramp, never seen that happen before though, usually they just issue the fine or a warning and that's the end of it all, BUT, and this is a pretty far fetched scenario, lets say they found your flares to be out of date (or you had no lifejackets or some other infringement) and they let you stay out fishing, and then the worst happens, you sink, someone drowns, and then the media get hold the the story (or someone sues them) who would be to blame? maybe you for not having the correct gear? or maybe the water police for letting you stay out, knowing you had out of date safety equipment? I know the chances are slim, but as a good mate always says, "governmet departments always employ A.C.E" that being Arse Covering Exercise

bondy99
02-08-2011, 10:34 AM
Thats correct CYA Cover Your Arse, always, always, always and then no one can get in trouble.

Other vessels could also be commercial fishing boats and that also happens.

Also attitude in the way how one conducts themselves, if you treat and talk to people like they are arseholes then you expect to be treated the same. It's not rocket science.

PaulMark
02-08-2011, 11:49 AM
C'mon now you're the skipper your in charge,I can't believe you didn't check the flares.I mean a trip to Rooneys isn't a run around the harbour. Regulations are not a negotiable issue,as for flares being months out of date and staying out,total BS.I've had friends on the Arti sent home because they were out of date 1 week.Where I have an issue is how they interpret the expiry date.apparently if they expire in August you might think end of the month,friends again on an inspection were told beginning of month.Any thoughts on that one??

Paulo

bondy99
02-08-2011, 12:22 PM
C'mon now you're the skipper your in charge,I can't believe you didn't check the flares.I mean a trip to Rooneys isn't a run around the harbour. Regulations are not a negotiable issue,as for flares being months out of date and staying out,total BS.I've had friends on the Arti sent home because they were out of date 1 week.Where I have an issue is how they interpret the expiry date.apparently if they expire in August you might think end of the month,friends again on an inspection were told beginning of month.Any thoughts on that one??

Paulo

Paulo, I agree with you in essence.

Expiry dates should have a proper expiry date i.e. Day / Month / Year....If it just says e.g. Expires August 2011....it should be taken as end of August 2011....if it's argued then its open to misinterpretation and one can take the matter to court and chances are one could win or could be an impasse....Court's recommendation or Judges Decision....Manufacturer must have a unique expiry date to avoid confusion and therefore could hold manufacturer liable for damages at Common Law.

TheRealAndy
02-08-2011, 01:43 PM
I recently went fishing with a mate of mine on his boat up off Rooneys in Hervey Bay, launched on a week day at 5am and travelled 1.5 hrs to our fishing spot to target some snapper. We arrived and sounded, finding a great showing of bait and snapper. We proceeded to anchor and then re anchored so we were on the spot. In this time two more boats joined us, one proceeded to drift fish with plastics, while the other anchored near us. We started to collect some live bait and sent some drift baits out the rear. We had just settled in when a patrol boat pulled alongside and asked to check our equipment. The boat is a 6m Tabs with a 140 Suzuki 4 stroke and is not 2 years old yet. We have a VHF radio and Epirb and all the required safety equipment. Due to the newness of the boat the owner thought all was fine, however the flares were several weeks out of date, but obviously in perfect working order if required in an emergency. The patrol boat officers made us pack up there and then and told us to return to the boatramp, which we were duly forced to do. On top of this we were fined $200 for our troubles. The so called officers just checked one of the other boats, leaving one totally uninspected before flying off to do some more revenue raising. Subsequently talking to a number of people about this incident, I have found some inspections on other boats out at sea, with flares months out of date, the boat owners have only received warnings. Why did we have to go back to the boatramp when we had epirbs and vhf radios on board !!!! I think the system sucks and the so called officer in question was just being an arsehole.>:(>:(>:(

How do you know they were in perfect working order?

There is a reason flares have an expiry date. Rules is rules. Cop is just doing his job. If you dont like it, then go speak to your local MP, as the pollies are responsible for legislation, not the cops.

Noelm
02-08-2011, 01:48 PM
I still have never heard of anyone being told to go back home when they have been caught without some gear, or out of date items, but then, as mentioned, I guess it should be the case, however much it might hurt and piss you off.

fishfeeder
02-08-2011, 02:46 PM
I think the Police should carry extra bits and pieces of safety gear on board (eg. Flares) and offer to sell then to the captain so then everyone is happy and covered in an emergency situation. Fining the captain and including the new flares in the fine would make more sense.

Cheers
Brett

griz066
02-08-2011, 03:30 PM
Probably had a few mates on the way who wanted to fish the spot where you were. just another abuse of power, I see it all the time.

Hornblower
02-08-2011, 04:25 PM
I think the Police should carry extra bits and pieces of safety gear on board (eg. Flares) and offer to sell then to the captain so then everyone is happy and covered in an emergency situation. Fining the captain and including the new flares in the fine would make more sense.

Cheers
Brett

Having once worn the blue suit I can tell you that it is against their code of conduct for an on duty police officer to endorse any specific commercial product. Unfortunately, that argument, albeit common sense, does have its limits. Is a police officer supposed to offer to sell someone tyres in theirs have insufficient tread? If so, what brand do they sell you? Why sell that brand over another commercial product with the same, or indeed better properties. I know that borders on the ridiculous, but the argument is essentially the same.

Now for the being directed back to the ramp. I am not 100% sure that direction is totally legal (without looking at the legislation) however, that being said, you would have to be arrested/prosecuted to test the direction in court (not advisory!) The argument was put up as the worst case scenario of something DID go wrong for you, who would be liable and civilly I believe the police would have a certain amount of liability (however, that being said - I am NOT a lawyer!)

Think of it this way... I bet you will NEVER have out of date flares EVER again. That is the whole point of the exercise. Personally, if it were me however - and I have over 20 years experience in law enforcement - I would have given you the choice of willingly going back to the boat ramp and if you agreed and upped stumps - I would not have issued the infringement - however - that is just me.

That being said, boating is currently in the State Govt's sights at the moment as evidenced from the Ausfish forum - so I wouldn't mind betting the police have been given new SOPs for zero tolerance - in which case a lot of the choice is taken away from them. Don't get me wrong - I am not siding with anyone here or criticising or justifying - just playing devil's advocate. I you think you have been hard done by you always have the opportunity to take the matter to court - unless you have already paid the infringement, that is. You MAY have just struck someone on a bad day and been at the business end of their officialdom at the wrong time - it happens!

All arguments on this post have been sound and I am inclined to see the logic in all of them except those statements which bag the police without any evidence or justification. They have a tough job - yes there are some who have difficulty dealing with the authority with maturity and unfortunately those do far more damage to police reputations than the good coppers work, but that is life!

Cheers

TheRealAndy
02-08-2011, 04:40 PM
Probably had a few mates on the way who wanted to fish the spot where you were. just another abuse of power, I see it all the time.

Biggest load of rot I have ever heard.

bluefin59
02-08-2011, 05:10 PM
You blokes who get on here bagging the guys that have to enforce the rules need to have a good hard look at your selves , it's not their fault you don't keep your saftey gear up to date . I am sure they would rather not have to waste time with people who can't take responsibility for there boats and what's on board , learn the rules and you won't have to get on her bitching . And for the other boats maybe thEy have checked them recently and feel they don't need to check them for that matter I would only be concerned about what I do or don't do as a skipper or give up going to places wher you need the gear ... Matt

Gazza
02-08-2011, 05:18 PM
Having once worn the blue suit I can tell you that it is against their code of conduct for an on duty police officer to endorse any specific commercial product. Unfortunately, that argument, albeit common sense, does have its limits. Is a police officer supposed to offer to sell someone tyres in theirs have insufficient tread? If so, what brand do they sell you? Why sell that brand over another commercial product with the same, or indeed better properties. I know that borders on the ridiculous, but the argument is essentially the same.

CheersThanks Horn.....[have deleted most of your post m8]
M8 , tyres NO , i.e pullover when ordered, then walk or catch a Taxi/Cab...HOME safe , no probs

Flares , "stated" as recently expired :( , was a too heavy-handed approach..imo
What-if they hit X on the way back-2-ramp ?? and started to sink ??, they don't use their or yours flares...you know we know , that "safety is paramount" , and I don't disagree with "Generic/cheap" PFD options for "offenders" being offerred either ;)

fishfeeder
02-08-2011, 05:28 PM
Hornblower, I understand that there would be a few issues behind the police selling the Flares. But ideas need to be put out there every now and then, there seems to be extra rules and regulation happening every second week it gets nearly impossible to keep up with it all. Having some middle ground would be nice for a change.

I will be checking my expiry dates ASAP because this has been bought to my attention. So I guess in one hand it worked and people will go out and check there expiry dates now, But on the other hand it was a crap way to get there point across.

Cheers
Brett

MudRiverDan
02-08-2011, 05:30 PM
They should invent flares that last longer.

Bit dodgey really, the shorter the flares shelf life the more prouduct they move.


cheers

charleville
02-08-2011, 06:33 PM
In Moreton Bay, one gets used to lots of visits by police and fisheries officers and that the universal thing that they look at is the date on flares.

Your mate might have suffered a bit of bad luck but, after all, you had travelled 1 1/2 hours to get there. That is a bloody long way to swim home so it does not surprise me that the police would take a hard line when you are so far from land.

At the end of the day, $200 is not the end of the world and if the effect is to save boaties from themselves, then good on the police, imho. In fact, 'tis damn fine preventative policing.

That they have incensed you enough to relate the story via this thread may well have achieved a lot for boater safety in that, I reckon, every one of us who has read this will now check the dates on our flares. That is not a bad result for the police, I reckon.

If you are going that far out in a big boat means that your mate was going to spend $200 on the day in fuel. The police have just fined him one fishing trip. 'Tis not the end of the world. Getting drowned is.



.

snapazapa
02-08-2011, 06:33 PM
Crickey the water police over there are pretty tough!,here in NZ the rules are pretty much a joke,you only need to go out on the water to see the lunatics,thats why we have such bad stats for drownings,you don't even need a skippers license.

Marlin_Mike
02-08-2011, 07:01 PM
You got caught with out of date flares, Cop the fine like a man, and buy some new ones. Not the cops fault you didn't follow the rules.

Mike

dstrans
02-08-2011, 07:09 PM
The Harvey Bay water Police are the worst i have seen!
Always picking on something. I got pulled over one day coming into the boat harbour for making wash when all it was the shit weather wind ,current etc.....
His excuse was if a trailer sailor had a hot bowl of soup the wash would rock his boat and he would burn himself.
Why the f@#$ would you have hot soup on a boat in harvey bay in summer? :P

fisho8
02-08-2011, 07:22 PM
In Moreton Bay, one gets used to lots of visits by police and fisheries officers and that the universal thing that they look at is the date on flares.

Your mate might have suffered a bit of bad luck but, after all, you had travelled 1 1/2 hours to get there. That is a bloody long way to swim home so it does not surprise me that the police would take a hard line when you are so far from land.

At the end of the day, $200 is not the end of the world and if the effect is to save boaties from themselves, then good on the police, imho. In fact, 'tis damn fine preventative policing.

That they have incensed you enough to relate the story via this thread may well have achieved a lot for boater safety in that, I reckon, every one of us who has read this will now check the dates on our flares. That is not a bad result for the police, I reckon.

If you are going that far out in a big boat means that your mate was going to spend $200 on the day in fuel. The police have just fined him one fishing trip. 'Tis not the end of the world. Getting drowned is.



.
Yep just went out to check mine got 12 months before they need replacing.

TheRealAndy
02-08-2011, 07:34 PM
AT the marine stores and QTransport you can get stickers that you can write the expiry date on. Stick on to your dash.

rayken1938
02-08-2011, 07:54 PM
Just about every boating/bait shop in QLD gives away FREE yellow stickers that you can put all over your boat. Provision for recording flare and epirb expiry dates so in my book no excuse.
Cheers
Ray

bigjimg
02-08-2011, 09:06 PM
Sorry no sympathy.Rules are there for the safety of lives at sea.The recording of important information like when the filters were replaced,gear oil changed,sparkplug replacement,flare expirery date,engine service should all be part of your routine maintenance,nothing should be left to chance before heading off to sea.Jim

webby nq
02-08-2011, 09:15 PM
Been stung the $200 fine before too, from the fisheries at the boat ramp of all places, crap way to end a good trip, he did say if they if they were out of date by only a month or so he would have let me off but then i had too remind him (argue) that the fish in the esky weren't bloody spangled emperor but grassy sweetlip, pretty sad really but in sayin that have also had to use my flares before ( in to date ones) and have had 2 fail , not a real good feeling when you are relying on these when times get tough and its a big call to get the old Epirb out , yeah you could probably get warranty if you want to carry cracked flares around with you but bugger that.

Hornblower
02-08-2011, 09:43 PM
G'day Brett, I wasn't bagging the idea of police selling flares - good idea - just that they can't for the reasons I stated.

Oh, and Brett, I went and checked MY flares - just in case!!!!!! (They're still good in case you were wondering)

I think Rainbowsrascal has done us all a service by starting this thread!

griz066
02-08-2011, 10:15 PM
Biggest load of rot I have ever heard.

Why would that be a load of rot??? Very plausible if you ask me.

Mossy247
03-08-2011, 02:01 PM
I got nothing but its just abit of bad prep on your part, they have laws and rules for a reason, out of date is out of date. You are lucky they didn't fine you for each individual flare being out of date. consider yourself lucky I say. My opinion. If something goes wrong your liable.... Not worth it if you ask me for the sake of 60 bucks. Its a cop out really. Wear it on the chin and be thankful nothing went wrong.

ssab1
03-08-2011, 03:07 PM
I no longer have respect for the police without a doubt their focus is on revenue raising, my company does not support "The Police Officers Journal" thanks to a very unpleasant meeting with a Copper.Instead of taking the matter to court I simply withdrew my support, I think the selection is too easy they put anyone in a police uniform now. I have know some very good cops in my day (I'm 60years old) but now I think they are few and far between.Why was I booked ,one P plate fell off (rear magnetic), why was I on Ps at my age, PTSD medication so I let my licence expire,the prick didnt believe me so in order to satisfy his bloody ego he had to book me for something in order to call it in and get my history, police officer I think not(PRICK is the word we are allowed to call them now

gunna
03-08-2011, 03:48 PM
You blokes who get on here bagging the guys that have to enforce the rules need to have a good hard look at your selves , it's not their fault you don't keep your saftey gear up to date . I am sure they would rather not have to waste time with people who can't take responsibility for there boats and what's on board , learn the rules and you won't have to get on her bitching . And for the other boats maybe thEy have checked them recently and feel they don't need to check them for that matter I would only be concerned about what I do or don't do as a skipper or give up going to places wher you need the gear ... Matt

I think I need to yell.

YOU ARE SPOT ON !!!!!!!

timddo
03-08-2011, 04:02 PM
So my flares say expires August 2011. Does that mean 31s of September is my last day or August 31.??????

fishfeeder
03-08-2011, 04:42 PM
Timddo, I wouldn't risk it and replace them before your next outing as the Police like to interpret the rules anyway they feel fit on the day, So if he is suffering from PMS you will get the ticket !!!

Cheers

rayken1938
03-08-2011, 05:27 PM
Rainbowrascal the bloke who booked you is the same bloke who would have the very unpleasant job of scooping up the bloated pieces of your body after it had been floating for a fortnight if something went wrong.
These blokes have a very shitty job job to do with very few thanks.
They all have a lot more to do than swanning around in boats or patrol cars booking people for the fun of it
Try putting yourself in their shoes going out in all weather looking for idiots,breaking up riots or domestics.
Cheers
Ray

Mattg68
03-08-2011, 05:44 PM
When you cop a fine it's natural to be pissed off, BUT the bigger question is - You've just paid $200 to learn a lesson, will it now encourage you to do your due diligence on your checklist. You can't put a dollar value on a life lost at sea.

Was going offshore with a mate last year at 2.30am one morning and before we could get out of the Brisbane River the WaterPolice had pulled us up and checked the gear. Same story, old mates flares were couple of months out of date (despite me asking several times leading up to trip if they were right - "yes yes yes" was the response) he felt like a right goose and they told us that we couldn't go more than 400 metres off shore. We fished at the mouth until 8am, phoned a mate to get some new flares, met him back at the Colmslie ramp and off we went. He now does thorough check of his gear.

Rules is Rules. Sorry bloke.

mattg

steve harney
04-08-2011, 06:17 PM
We had the same thing a couple of times, here in Brisbane. One was the all round light brought it all set up from a dealer, going out early morning dark and nicking along & heard a noise a turned around & the water police were pulling us over, checked everything out and said the all round light wasn't high enough, we were in a 4.5m tinny high sides & a 4 foot extender bar with light on top, they said if we were to stand up it couldn't been seen in 360deg as the fellow said I've just brought the brand new boat thought everything was good, gave us a warning ticket and the next time mate you will just get a fine ok than they were going on about the size of the rego letter height, what anyway another boat went flying past without anylights & took off after them, ok we have sorted that out, and we got pulled up again the another day in the river & checked again life jackets which have the gas cyc thingy in them have expiry "Dates" also we didn't know anyway they were way out of date and had a choice keep fishing or cop a fine!! all in all they were ok about it three times only doing there job and now we have everything up to date!! I always ask mate his history as is seems we get pulled over every time in the Brissy river I always wondered about down in the seaway down the coast as I sat down on the Easter break and didn't see one life jacket heading out over the bar are there different rules in holidays time on the Goldy.
Steve

Steve B
04-08-2011, 07:16 PM
Rainbowrascal the bloke who booked you is the same bloke who would have the very unpleasant job of scooping up the bloated pieces of your body after it had been floating for a fortnight if something went wrong.
These blokes have a very shitty job job to do with very few thanks.
They all have a lot more to do than swanning around in boats or patrol cars booking people for the fun of it
Try putting yourself in their shoes going out in all weather looking for idiots,breaking up riots or domestics.
Cheers
Ray

Well said Ray,

Who is the first called out 24hrs a day, risk their lives in all sorts of crappy conditions if you start sinking, lose a man overboard, need to use your EPIRB.....?????

I will bet your glad to see the water police then.

They have a job to do, as do you as the skipper to provide safety.

Lesson learnt. Cheers Steve

ssab1
05-08-2011, 09:30 AM
Well said Ray,

Who is the first called out 24hrs a day, risk their lives in all sorts of crappy conditions if you start sinking, lose a man overboard, need to use your EPIRB.....?????

I will bet your glad to see the water police then.

They have a job to do, as do you as the skipper to provide safety.

Lesson learnt. Cheers Steve

90 times out of a hundred it will be VMR on scene first, coppers only responding when VMR not available or or called in, why do you think they haunt the river mouth (near base) it is close and they need less fuel. On any given night down the Pin unlit boats everywhere ,not a cop in sight, I,ve fished the Pin for 40 years and yes I support VMR they're the one OUT THERE 24/7.cheers alex

oldboot
08-08-2011, 12:06 AM
The bottom line is the authorities have ALWAYS be targeting FLOTATION and FLARES.
My father was a harbour and marine surveyer back in the 60's.....and that was the deal back then..it has not changed and is very unlikly to.

Marine inspectors don't count sheep, to go to sleep they count flotation.

There are all sorts of things they will ping you for, but the first will always be flotation ( that is life jackets, rings and rafts, the second if you are beyond smooth water will be flares.

You can be guaranteed of it.

and expired is expired......if it says expires August.....if its August they are expired.

You can now add to that the all round white....they might ping you for other light issues, but they are looking for all round white.

Just like on the road..they look for bald tyres, and seatbelts..and at night faulty tail lights.
You can drive arround the biggest heap of $H!#, but you have rocks in your head if you drive on bald tyres or don't wear your seat belt.

cheers

finga
08-08-2011, 08:07 AM
You've done something wrong and you got pinged for it. Your problem not the Police Officer's.
Attitude could have some bearing on the outcome too.
But when it all boils down you've (and all those complaining about Police) done something wrong...and were found out. Get over it.

I just wished there were more Police on the roads, on the water, on the streets and anywhere else people tend to go as it seems it's Rafferty's rules out there at the moment. Especially in the larger metropolitan areas .

In Brisbane I see lots of minor offences been committed everywhere you go....and no Police.
Out here we see hardly any offences (and no black skids marks at every intersection and round-a-bout) but the Police regularly patrol the streets.
Must be a link there somewhere.

NAGG
08-08-2011, 08:07 AM
the officers actions have clearly sent a message out ........ how many have now checked the dates on their flares ?.
When this type of things happens ( like being booked for going 6kmph over the speed limit) we all feel harshly done by - but the reality is that there should never be grey areas - it should be black and white otherwise everyone will say , she'll be right ( It's only a couple of weeks or I wont get caught) - Radio's , EPIRBs , Flares & V sheets are part of the safety system - they should be tip top shape.
So as for an officer being an a$$hole ....... no , just doing his job! - ..... yes I would be pissed off if I was sent packing but I would also know that it was my responsibility to maintain those flares

Chris

red rock cod
08-08-2011, 12:15 PM
is there any distinction between the powers of the water police and the boating patrol or do their powers overlap? exactrly what are the powers of each.

Obi _ Wan
08-08-2011, 02:49 PM
C'mon now you're the skipper your in charge,I can't believe you didn't check the flares.I mean a trip to Rooneys isn't a run around the harbour. Regulations are not a negotiable issue,as for flares being months out of date and staying out,total BS.I've had friends on the Arti sent home because they were out of date 1 week.Where I have an issue is how they interpret the expiry date.apparently if they expire in August you might think end of the month,friends again on an inspection were told beginning of month.Any thoughts on that one??

Paulo

This is something i picked up on several years ago, that is the flares are marked with a month and a year.

I started a new thread here on Ausfish asking the question as to, if the markings showed August, was it the begining or the end of August.

One reply stated that it was a good question, however nobody came up with an answer, I trawled MSQ web site and could not find any refference to the date stamping on flares.

I recently asked a boating and Fisheries Patrol Officer what the stamp August meant, was it the end or the begining of August, I was told that they determined that it meant the flares would be out of date after the end of August.

I reckon MSQ should be pushed to eliminate this grey area and stop boaties being hit with fines during the month of the flare date stamp, it seems it all epends on the mood of the person doing the inspecting.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,
John.

old_fisho
08-08-2011, 03:32 PM
Princess suck it up pay the fine dont do it again simple .
Hav been out in boats and ski`s and have had a good interaction with them jus doin a job .

BLOOEY
08-08-2011, 05:42 PM
Wish i found this thread a couple of days ago! New flares and the wallet is a bit lighter today. Ben

PaulMark
08-08-2011, 05:52 PM
As I said in my post,a trip to Rooneys isn't a run around the harbour so one of the first things checked should be the safety gear.My new flares expire May 2014,so May 1 will see new flares bought.Yes,its very hard when you look at the flares and they're squeaky clean and shiny and you have to replace them,but thats the way it is.Part and parcel of being safe on the water.
Paulo

TheRealAndy
09-08-2011, 07:50 AM
This is something i picked up on several years ago, that is the flares are marked with a month and a year.

I started a new thread here on Ausfish asking the question as to, if the markings showed August, was it the begining or the end of August.

One reply stated that it was a good question, however nobody came up with an answer, I trawled MSQ web site and could not find any refference to the date stamping on flares.

I recently asked a boating and Fisheries Patrol Officer what the stamp August meant, was it the end or the begining of August, I was told that they determined that it meant the flares would be out of date after the end of August.

I reckon MSQ should be pushed to eliminate this grey area and stop boaties being hit with fines during the month of the flare date stamp, it seems it all epends on the mood of the person doing the inspecting.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,
John.

The law is 3 years after manufacture, so its safe to say if the expire in august, they were made 3 years prior some time in august. As they dont stamp the day manufactured, its safe to assume they are made in the 1st day of the month, thefore expire on the first day.

rainbowrascal
09-08-2011, 07:54 AM
Thanks guys for all the replies, I just wanted to clarify some of the reponses, firstly I was not the skipper of the said boat in question, and why did we have to go back to the ramp when we had a VHF radio, lifejackets, and epirb !!! A simple matter of the flares being a few weeks out did not warrant the actions of the said officer on board the patrol boat. We were very civil to him at the time. The date issue of flares should be clarified by legislation and there should be a set standard for all boat inspections, conducted by the police patrol staff.

finga
09-08-2011, 08:04 AM
why did we have to go back to the ramp when we had a VHF radio, lifejackets, and epirb !!! A simple matter of the flares being a few weeks out did not warrant the actions of the said officer on board the patrol boat.
Is 3 tyres in good nick and one bald tyre OK for your car on the road?
Nope. You need 4 good tyres or risk a defect notice and fine.

Apollo
09-08-2011, 08:29 AM
Good thread. I have been pulled over by the BFP & WaterCops in lower and upper Straits (including the HB guys) and they have always been ok. Did their checks, had a chat, ticked off everything was ok, on their way. No problems. In your case, their was a breach and a lesson has been learnt.

oldboot
09-08-2011, 09:55 AM
The bottom line is that there will certainly be polocies and procedures for on water boating inspections and more procedure than may first appear.

Those blokes who were not inspected, may have been inspected at the ramp, or on the way out or the day before, or they were simply not "randomly selected".

Remember too that these blokes ARE pretty well trained..they aint going to ask about manual propulsion if they can see oars by looking, likewise if they can see a bucket thay will not ask about bailing equipment.

If they have an onboard computer, they may have no need to ask for a licence, they may have already done a search on your rego, they may simply ask your name and if you own the boat.

In any mobile patrol these days, it is the job of the second man to operate the computer.

Now the VHF radio does not enter into it because it is not a legeslated requirement.
Flares and flotation are and have been legeslated requirements for a very long time.

remember to that no flares and expired flares are two very different offences.

No flares is a matter of failing to have required safety equipment..they can't zip you for that one if you are in smooth waters, unless you have been observed to have been outside of smooth waters.

Expired flares has two components, the first is that you do not have appropriate equipment on board as above, the second is a matter of controll of dangerous goods.....possession of expired flares is an offence in its self.

Flares are explosives......we would not be allowed to carry or posses a similar item or similar materials if it was not a flare.
While the flares are in date that is all fine, once that are out of date the manufacturer will not guarantee their reliable, safe and consistent operation or storage.....when they expire they cease to be a flare in practical terms and become an uncontrolled explosive in unlicenced hands.

They can in theory zip you for being in possesion of expired flares in your driveway at home.

Then there is the principle of non compliant safety equipment being worse than useless or worse than none at all. Because it may not function as expected.

for this reason..never carry unservicable lifejackets as cushions or fenders...because thay can and will zip you even if you have sufficient compliant flotation.

The bottom line is that flares and flotation are noth very common noncompliances and it has been so like for ev errr.

There are no particular specifications for a lot of other requirements just that you have one.
But flares have a clearly speeled out date requirement.....so of course they will ask to see the dates..and if they are expired you will get zipped.

Likewise there is a clear specification about the condition of life jackets....if they are faded, dirty or frayed in any way....thay will zip you.
BTW they will zip you if they are still in the plastic bags too..becuase they are not "ready for use".

Youi could possibly go to court and argue the whole beginning or end of the month thing...but I'd be checking a fer things like the explosives acts first.

cheers

Obi _ Wan
12-08-2011, 12:50 PM
The law is 3 years after manufacture, so its safe to say if the expire in august, they were made 3 years prior some time in august. As they dont stamp the day manufactured, its safe to assume they are made in the 1st day of the month, thefore expire on the first day.

Hi Andy, I trawled through the regs again and still could not find an answer so i sent MSQ an email, hopefully as following hhere under.



Good Afternoon,


I have a question about flares, Ihave asked a lot of people and received several different answers and when $200is the outcome if the wrong advice is followed it is not good, so your rulingwill be welcomed.

1.Flares carry a date stamp which is shown as say----August 2011 ??? Which partof August do the flares become out of date, is it the beginning or the end ofAugust???? I had a boating and Fisheries Patrol Officer tell me that it is theend of August but I have heard of others who have been fined by the WaterPolice for having flares that carried the stamp date of, say June and they werefined in the middle of June, there must be a ruling on this, otherwise it isjust revenue raising.
2. I have also heard that it is okayto carry the set of flares that are carrying the date stamp which proceeds thecurrent in date set of flares as a backup/ additional flares for use in anemergency and is a good practise. Your page on flares says that only flareswithin the manufacturers expiry date can be considered as part of safetyequipment? Does that mean if I have a set of flares that are within themanufactures expiry range and I have an extra set of flares that are dated asthe proceeding set, I would be fined? For having out of date flares on board?

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
Regards,
John.

This morning i recieved an answer from MSQ as following, this should now clear up all questions we have regarding flares.

Morning John,

Thank you for enquiryin regards to carriage of flares. The expiry dates which are applied to theflares, carry the validity of the month of expiry. So as per the Boating andFisheries officer has advised he is correct. In September the flares datedexpiry for August 2011 would then be classed as expired not during the month ofAugust.

As for carriage ofexpired flares there is no requirement under the Transport Operations(Marine Safety) Act or Regulation that refers to this. Although it is anoffence with an appropriate fine, under the Mines Energy and Explosives actfor the carriage of expired explosives. Any carriage of expired safetyequipment in a vessel should be kept well away from the containment area forthe in date safety equipment.

Please feel free tocontact me directly in regards to this.

Kind regards,


I have removed the name of the Officer who sent answers to my questions, however if you need the chaps name please PM me.


Cheers,
John.

PinHead
12-08-2011, 02:19 PM
"Although it is anoffence with an appropriate fine, under the Mines Energy and Explosives actfor the carriage of expired explosives"

What about the 3 sets of expired ones sitting in the cupboard in the garage. That must not be an offence.

PaulMark
12-08-2011, 04:17 PM
Thanks John,maybe we should print out your reply for when they come visiting.There really needs to be an information bulletin on their website.

Paulo

Obi _ Wan
12-08-2011, 04:39 PM
Paulo, I already have a copy in the boat, but i would only use it as a last resort.

Mate I agree, it should be posted up on their web site for all to see.

Cheers,
John.