Fish ID-interesting flattie

[Sheik]

Caught this bloke in central Queensland on a live herring. It was around some rocky country so that would account for the colouration, but it was a strange looking beast that's for sure. Skipper thought it was a stone fish before we got it into the boat. It had a really stocky body with very prominent eyes and prominent spines along the top. I know these can be seen in normal flatties but this one seemed much heavier and spinier than normal and the colours were fantastic.

[bennykenny]

i think that might be a fringe eye flathead or a tasselsnout flathead sheik.i would say tasselsnout, from the lack of fringe on it cheers bk

[landy1]

Dear god do you mean that there is an uglier member of the flathead family. I thought duskies were ugly enough.

[Sheik]

thanks BK, possibly so,but not like any flattie I've seen before. We were wondering whether homer had let the radioactive water out again...

[sleepygreg]

dont think its a fringe eye, looks like what we used to call 'rock flathead'. I am sure there is a more correct botanical name for em.

[Russta]

It is a Fringe-Eye Flathead Papilloculiceps nematophthalmus. They are usually a lot darker but you can tell by the flesh over the eyes and wide bands across its body. Habitat is usually seagrass beds and mangroves areas.

[Sheik]

Excellent, love your work

[bennykenny]

hey sheik, i have sent the photos to the australian museum for a positive id, ill let you know what the results are, cheers benny

[Sheik]

hey sheik, i have sent the photos to the australian museum for a positive id, ill let you know what the results are, cheers benny

Thanks Benny, should be interesting, was a strange wee fellow that's for sure.

[wags on the water]

Caught this bloke in central Queensland on a live herring. It was around some rocky country so that would account for the colouration, but it was a strange looking beast that's for sure. Skipper thought it was a stone fish before we got it into the boat. It had a really stocky body with very prominent eyes and prominent spines along the top. I know these can be seen in normal flatties but this one seemed much heavier and spinier than normal and the colours were fantastic.


Sheik,

You should have gone fishin with JT then you wouldn't have the problem with ID's on fish as 8/10 of his fish are reddish in colour.....

Thanks for sharing your fishing trip with us.

Cheers,
Wags

[kc]

It is not a Fringe eye flathead. Used to catch a lot of fringe eyes in Pumicestone passage as a kid. We call these a "reef flathead" up here but don't know the proper name. Quiet common around mainland fringing reef areas. You see a lot diving and they come as a by-catch when chasing trout and jacks around foreshore reef areas. Seen them to about 3kgs. Much thicker through the body than a normal flatty and no dangley "fringe" over their eyes. Be interested to see what they really are called.

KC

[bennykenny]

here is what the Australian museum says:

Dear Brendon,
Thank you for your enquiry. Based upon the images our ichthyologist collections manager believes it is aFringe-eye Flathead,Cymbacephalus nematophthalmus (Gunther, 1860). The Fringe-eye Flathead can be distinguished from other species of flatheads by the presence of six to nine skin tentacles above both eyes. The web link above is from our new website which unfortunately does not yet have the good images our old website had for this species, however I had trouble embedding in this email so will forward it to you separately.
Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.
Kind regards,
Ella Minton
Interpretive Officer

[krusey]

Definately a fringe eyed flathead also know as a rock flathead but IMO the best tasting flathead around

[kc]

Have a look at the pics....no fringe! This is not IMO a fringe eyed flathead, I have caught "both". These are different. Also fringe eyes do not grow this big.

[kc]

Here is a pic of a fringe eye, and then compare it to the bottom pic above. See...fringe/no fringe. Also not the 2 sharp spines in the centre of the head, behind the eyes in the "reef flatty". This is similar but a different fish.

Nup! Never been able to do this. Google "fringe eye flathead image and 3 will come up. The most telling is the last of the 3. A head shot showing the fringes and no spikes in the centre of the head.

Kev

[bennykenny]

yeah Kc there is no fringe, ive sent a email back to them asking them for a definitive reason that they think its a fringe eye over a tasslesnout or other but ill have to wait til monday for a response.

[sleepygreg]

Im with kc on this one, have also caught both, this is NOT a fringe eye, the response from our learned friends at the museum seems to be at odds to the picture, unless you sent them a pic we are not privvy to ( which i doubt). I can only form an opinion on what is put before me, and their reasoning for the identification does not match the picture I see.

[bennykenny]

yeah greg i just sent them the photos that appear above, pretty sure its not a fringe eye, but on first glance i said fringe eye aswell, before i had a closer look, it may have been what they had done aswell.

[kc]

One of the more interesting...name this fish posts in recent times and one I will follow. Just another reason Ausfish is such a great site. Well done Steve!

KC

[Sheik]

Sheik,

You should have gone fishin with JT then you wouldn't have the problem with ID's on fish as 8/10 of his fish are reddish in colour.....

Thanks for sharing your fishing trip with us.

Cheers,
Wags
Yeah tried that once Wags and came back with nothing. Of course JT blamed it on the 25 knot easterlies but i reckon he was just soft for not going out onto the red country. I lie, we didn't get nothing; we got some niceblackall though and some big toadfish so that was good. Hard to get worthwhile free boat trips these days...

[Barry Ehsman]

Check out the post i put up on 26-12-2010 or do a search on fringe eye flathead on here to find it,the flatty i caught seem's to have more of a fringe over the eye.

Baz

[jtpython]

Yeah tried that once Wags and came back with nothing. Of course JT blamed it on the 25 knot easterlies but i reckon he was just soft for not going out onto the red country. I lie, we didn't get nothing; we got some niceblackall though and some big toadfish so that was good. Hard to get worthwhile free boat trips these days...

Oh you lie what about the Spano's and Black king and bluely . Humrf Nice friend you are
i65qpsztjKg
Oh the flatty we called rock flatty caught a lot on the reefs top chewing
JT

[dallas90]

caught one of those in laguna lake on the gold coast about ten years a ago, i thought it was jus mutated or a cross breed.

[GABBA110360]

our perception of a flathead is probably limited to about 4 species dusky/ sand/ sand-blue spot at sea and rock flathead at sea at a guess i've seen at least a dozen different specie over and above the above mentioned .
some of the one's that live in deep water 200m plus are truely ugly.
they only seem to grow to about 30 cms of what i've seen but ya never know there may be a crocadile lurking there somewhere
everything outside the 100 fathom line on the bottom has spikes on it !

[Si]

must agree sheik. very strange looking fellow. I'm going to have a stab in the dark and say its a Crocodile Flathead Cymbacephalus beauforti

:-)

[bennykenny]

it seems the ichthyologist at the Australian museum doesn't like to be challenged on his ID from their lack of response to my last email, so i guess we wont really know for sure.

[Matt_Campbell]

it seems the ichthyologist at the Australian museum doesn't like to be challenged on his ID from their lack of response to my last email, so i guess we wont really know for sure.


Send an email to Jeff Johnson at Queensland Museum.

[bennykenny]

Send an email to Jeff Johnson at Queensland Museum.
thanks matt email sent, will await their response

[bennykenny]

Jeff was straight on to it.
Hi Brendon

The fish is a Northern Rock Flathead, Cymbacephalus staigeri. This species is fairly common on rocky coastal reef with weed growth across northern Australia, between Shark Bay, WA and Hervey Bay, Qld. It reaches at least 60 cm and 2.3 kg.

The Fringe-eye Flathead, Cymbacephalus nematophthalmus, is a closely related species, but has a slightly shorter snout, prominent fleshy tentacles extending from the upper edge of the eye (absent in the Northern Rock Flathead), and narrow dark streaks across the dorsal and caudal fins (mottled with small dark blotches, but no narrow dark streaks in the Northern Rock Flathead).

Was this fish caught within the area mentioned above?

regards

Jeff Johnson
Manager Ichthyology
Queensland Museum
PO Box 3300 South Brisbane, Qld 4101
Australia

E-mail: Jeff.Johnson@qm.qld.gov.au Ph: 61-7-38407720 Fax: 61-7-38461226

[marto78]

Haha only 29 posts to correctly identify a flathead :P

Good work BK.

[Si]

Nice work Benny.

[Angla]

The truth uncovered. Great effort for just a small fish but still good to know.

Cheers
Chris

[sleepygreg]

Actually only 5 posts for a roughy, just 29 posts for the scientific name. Sorry - dont get many chances to say 'i told you so'. lol

Seriously though - there are so many varieties of flathead around that unless its one of the commonly caught ones (dusky, sand, bar tailed), they can be difficult to identify accurately - unless you have caught them previously and done the exercise of identification. The majority of people will just call it an ugly flathead and either throw it back or eat it if they thinks its big enough to be legal.

I was lucky enough in my early years of fishing to spend a lot of my time fishing with guys that were so rapt in fish and fishing that they were doing marine sciences at uni, fishing journalism, etc (Julian Pepperill, Steve Clarke, Alan Darke, Rod Harrison, Frank Prokop) - and and everything that came in that was not 'normal' was photographed, measured, analysed - and in a lot of cases kept alive and taken back for further study. Geeeez it was annoying sometimes when you were just out for a feed of fish, or some light tackle action and then the whole trip changed because something 'different' became the focal point for the day - but I wouldnt change a thing - I learnt so much from those guys about variations in species just from observation.

PS. No I DO NOT claim to be an expert at fish ID......the trevally's confuse the crap out of me, most non commonly caught reefies leave me flummoxed, and I cannot for the life of me remember scientific names of fish. But if I have caught it and had it identified, I have a reasonable idea of what it is if I see it again.

There are heaps of people on this forum that have a wealth of knowledge on fish ID's - I would love to see more posts asking for ID's - I learn something every time one is put up. Maybe the Mods could make a seperate section for fish ID's.

[Sheik]

Nice work benny thanks for sorting that one out.
regards jim

[kc]

Ditto Benny, been away a few days so just caught up and good to see the "skeptics" did not accept the expert advice that this was a fringe eye.......

Hmmm!

Anyhow.

Good Job

KC

[Rainbowrunner]

we used to catch them alot around the rocks in the mouth of the Boyne River, we just called em rock flathead, have seen them well over 60cm but yes definitely different to a fringe eye