Travelling in the dark

[thylacene]

Finally got game and set out at 5am to get to a spot just before daylight. What an experience. After turning the GPS down to the dimmest setting and switching off the radios to minimise ambient light, I was happy enough heading out of the channel. Once in open water though it was a real leap of faith, unable to see anything in front of us, and travelling at a speed where the boat rode nicely without constant throttle adjustments.

It is an interesting experience driving on instruments alone. Had nav lights and an all round light but nothing that offered forward visibility.

For those that travel before first light or after dark, do you use a forward mounted light? How do you see what is coming in terms of swell and chop?

Cheers

Thy

[PinHead]

Usually just keep a look out for unlit boats is all.

[Spaniard_King]

Know the area you are travelling helps, I am usually guided by my chartplotter but don't use this as a sole means of navigation. As PH has stated the best thing is a good lookout for lights and hope that everyone else in your vacinity is doing the same.

[Chimo]

And travel at a speed that allows reactions other than OOPS...... and all the above Greg and Gary comments.

Cheers
Chimo

[thelump]

I have been trying not to use my plotter as much and run off nav lights in the bay. Last trip out from Redland bay toward peel running along the side of snipe island lining up the green light to my right as per usual when all of a sudden berrr (insert motor hitting mud sound) ran aground. The middle green was out and i was lining up the wrong green light at the end of Snipe. I will be watching my GPS a bit more from now on!

[deckie]

If there's any moon try tacking into the reflection off the water, unless its wayy off your heading...gives u some peace of mind and not like the sun reflection u try to avoid.
Get yourself something like this with lots of grunt.
http://www.##########.com/product-gs/390762394-12V-Hand-Held-55W-HID-Spotlight-wholesalers.html

Or a fixed mount HID pencil beam maybe 35-55W on a few stainless rail mounts with a nice piece of thin plate, then mount on point of bowrail which is out of the way anyway. Halogens tend to blow globes with all the vibration and bumping...usually a bit calmer in dark tho.

Dont have the beam off into the distance...you;re using it to give u warning and confidence of the water maybe 50-200m ahead. If mounting closer to you try to have it above the bimini/hardtop so the light doesnt fall on the deck in front of you. A little plate under the anchor light doesnt hurt either.

Do u guys get bad fog ? Here in Syd and i imagine in Vic too its more the fog predawn that slows u to a crawl.

GPS is great but wont tell u what is on the water.

Slow down...best speed is where you;re just holding up on the plane. With the beam on the water just ahead you'll get more confidence.

[Wazzup01]

The more you do it the more confident you will become. I do 99% of my fishing at night and most times head out in the dark. As the other guys have said just keep an eye out for others who like fishing in the dark and don't want to be seen, forget to turn their lights on or worse still don't have any lights. They may not want you to see where their "secret spot" is and you definitely don't want to find it by accident.

[Angla]

I for one would never go fishing with anyone on a hope that you do not hit something.

You're a nong

How much is a torch worth up against the cost of what might happen.
Have you ever seen a yacht at anchor with a single white light up the mast, it looks like a star but I reckon when you hit the yacht you will be seeing stars.

Get a light or go when it is light!

I do go at night with safety in mind hence the search light and before that it was a hand held spotlight.

You are a right dill

Cheers
Chris

[thylacene]

Thinking that a wide beam floodlight mounted under the bow sprite might be a handy addition, With full windscreen to the hardtop, a spotlight is not really an option unless I get someone to hang out of the hatch with it.

The illumination from the GPS reflected off the white surfaces in the boat shows as reflection in the screen impacting night vision, this is the only downside of the full screen and wipers we have come across.

The other consideration is mounting one or more lights on the hardtop but am thinking this would require shrouds to avoid reflection off bow rail and foredeck.

I know that travelling in the dark for the first time, even with shore lights visible when looking behind, and a light house to our port side, was the most stressful activity I have experienced since starting boating. After the first few minutes or so while I worked out how to minimise the glare in the cockpit and get my bearings sorted on the GPS, the levels of stress dropped, but still had me shoving my head out the side just to be sure.

We did encounter other boats, showing nav lights, although these were just an occasional flash due to the swell, and from a suitable distance. Cannot understand why anyone would consider being on the water after dark without the minimum legal lights. I was genuinely concerned that there may be debris in the water or even possibly someone in a tinny fishing in the bay without lights.

Hate to think what it would be like in really crap weather and ordinary seas without some form of auxillary lighting.

It was all worthwhile to be able to be on the fish before first light and enjoy a strong bite as the sun came up.

[Angla]

Thinking that a wide beam floodlight mounted under the bow sprite might be a handy addition, With full windscreen to the hardtop, a spotlight is not really an option unless I get someone to hang out of the hatch with it.

The illumination from the GPS reflected off the white surfaces in the boat shows as reflection in the screen impacting night vision, this is the only downside of the full screen and wipers we have come across.

The other consideration is mounting one or more lights on the hardtop but am thinking this would require shrouds to avoid reflection off bow rail and foredeck.

I know that travelling in the dark for the first time, even with shore lights visible when looking behind, and a light house to our port side, was the most stressful activity I have experienced since starting boating. After the first few minutes or so while I worked out how to minimise the glare in the cockpit and get my bearings sorted on the GPS, the levels of stress dropped, but still had me shoving my head out the side just to be sure.

We did encounter other boats, showing nav lights, although these were just an occasional flash due to the swell, and from a suitable distance. Cannot understand why anyone would consider being on the water after dark without the minimum legal lights. I was genuinely concerned that there may be debris in the water or even possibly someone in a tinny fishing in the bay without lights.

Hate to think what it would be like in really crap weather and ordinary seas without some form of auxillary lighting.

It was all worthwhile to be able to be on the fish before first light and enjoy a strong bite as the sun came up.

No it is not worthwhile if the trip kills you

Your stress is telling you something. Listen to it

Cheers
Chris

[Richo1]

I think your first comments might be a bit harsh there Angla.

One needs to consider that driving around with a flood /search light blaring out in front of you not only reduces you night vision - other than directly in front of you, but also hides your nav lights from other vessels. A boat comming from the opposite direction especially a small boat will only see a big white light and may not have any real idea in what you intentions are. Search/ flood lights have there uses but on an as required basis.

Thy you did the right thing by reducing light given off by your instruments (maybe not turning off the radio) - clear red contact stuck over the light panels helps to reduce the glare further. The stuff kids put over their text books at school.

Regards,
Richo

[Noelm]

any sort of "headlights" on a boat are completely useless, unless you are actually coming into a jetty or ramp, far better to have the legal nav lights on and allow your night vision to adjust to the conditions, then travel to those conditions, now this does not mean that (say) a decent torch to illuminate a dark channel marker is not a good idea, but generally, as dark as possible in the driving position is the best.

[nigelr]

I can understand where angla is coming from but consider how many smaller commercial vessels operate at night. There must be some experienced operators out there who could provide valuable info on improving night-time vision and thus safety.
If it were me, I'd be starting with a flat sea and a full moon.....lol.

[deckie]

any sort of "headlights" on a boat are completely useless, unless you are actually coming into a jetty or ramp, far better to have the legal nav lights on and allow your night vision to adjust to the conditions, then travel to those conditions, now this does not mean that (say) a decent torch to illuminate a dark channel marker is not a good idea, but generally, as dark as possible in the driving position is the best.
After 20 years of fishing the darkest, most steep sided waterway you'll ever navigate i'm here to tell you thats a load of unowot Noelm.

Perhaps you just never set it up right, maybe never put it in the right spot...or always used rubbish lights not strong enough to be any use.

Would NEVER go out at night without one.

Where they become no use whatsoever is when there's any type of fog, plenty of moon so u are better off without it, or in built up areas where there's reflected light from shore. Shine just up ahead on the water...it is to give u warning.

Also worrying about its effect on others seeing your nav lights is nothing. The more light u shine fwd the more everyone avoids you anyway. Its natural and there's no mistake which direction you are heading. besides...i;ve never had a trouble seeing nav lights on a boat with a spottie...they arnt shone in your eyes, you get glare intermittently as their boat is up and down. Nav lighta are couloured so u effectively know if they are coming or going..if u see a spottie can u mistake which way they're going ?..it tells u what is happening well before u see their pissy little nav lights.

If you know your waterway you can also use them to shine on the shoreline out at an angle and simply stay a set distance from shore.

The killer at night and the only scares i've had invariably revolve around people thinking they SHOULDNT be lit up to preserve their vision...often making themselves bloody hard to see in the process with a pissy little all round white set at the back and toy nav lights they never check anyway.

All u care about is the water you are about to pass over and want warning. Until you see your first dikhead in a tinnie parked out there with no light whatsoever (probably coz he wants to preserve his night vision), or pass one 50m away and think "F#@en PR$#K!!!"....thats when u never go out without one and do straight lines WITH it well and truly on the water just ahead.

[Richo1]

Hi Nigel, a flat sea and a full moon is a great start. What Nolem has said pretty much nails it, i reckon.
It all comes down to driving to the 'prevailing circumstances and condtions'. Pretty broad statement that one, but the biggest part would be to operate to your own level of competancy and experience.
All of the posts so far contain good hints and tips, these comments come from the experience of both recreational and commercial operators. I've been a commercial skipper since 1992 and now have an AMSA 500ton Masters ticket - doesn't mean I know everything and I've have worked with plenty of commercial skippers who don't have a clue when it comes to recreational boating.
Best bit of equipment for night operations other than Radar I have operated with is an infra- red night vision camera mounted on the wheelhouse roof. Awesome bit of gear and you can litterally see everything around you including unlit buoys, pylons etc... But they cost a fortune.

[Richo1]

Hi Nigel, a flat sea and a full moon is a great start. What Nolem has said pretty much nails it, i reckon.
It all comes down to driving to the 'prevailing circumstances and condtions'. Pretty broad statement that one, but the biggest part would be to operate to your own level of competancy and experience.
All of the posts so far contain good hints and tips, these comments come from the experience of both recreational and commercial operators. I've been a commercial skipper since 1992 and now have an AMSA 500ton Masters ticket - doesn't mean I know everything and I've have worked with plenty of commercial skippers who don't have a clue when it comes to recreational boating.
Best bit of equipment for night operations other than Radar I have operated with is an infra- red night vision camera mounted on the wheelhouse roof. Awesome bit of gear and you can litterally see everything around you including unlit buoys, pylons etc... But they cost a fortune.

[Noelm]

"deckie" you are fishing a closed/narrow waterway, Thy was talking open ocean, and headlights are useless

[deckie]

"deckie" you are fishing a closed/narrow waterway, Thy was talking open ocean, and headlights are useless

I come out of tight steep sides yes, then into the Hawkesbury entrance which is about 1km across, then out into Broken Bay. Can get pretty lumpy but still classified as enclosed water. Very little shore light coz all national park. One of the main problems is the fishing is best after a wet and/or after big tides...when u see a stick "sticking up" you dont know if its attached to half a sydney red gum just under the surface. The spottie is great for tht and for seeing debris/flotsam lines and staying away from them where the big branches usually are. Any decent moon and you;re right i wont use it much.
Thing about getting outsdie tho Noelm is that invariably you need to come and go from built up areas where more boats are/ enclosed water....outside isnt usually the worry or where u need one.

[scottishguy]

With the price of radar coming down all the time, it's probably a worthwhile investment if you are doing a lot of night/low vis fishing.

Not saying it's the be all and all but it certainly helps.

[Whiley_Whiting]

Hi

A little advice is to know the area and know where things are in the dark!! I used to rely on my GPS / Chartplotter until it decided to give up the ghost late afternoon before heading back in. Luckily I know the area (hervey bay) well and could use the moon light and lights from the shore to guide me in and also knowing the from the depths on the sounder what was coming up etc to get back to the beacons to get me home safely.

I have been looking at the new 8 and 10 beam led spot lights to install on the bimini of my cruisecraft to give me some light ahead of me to try and see objects in the water and unlit boats. When fishing the Wathumba area at night once before the only reason i knew a boat was ahead was when the guys in the tinny were yelling out!! with no moon or moon behind the clouds it gets very dark!!

I always carry my old hand held gps with points to get me back in case the chartplotter fails. At the end of the day you can never be to safe or to overstocked on equipment like chartplotters, radars, spot lights and back up gps etc.

After having a friend be involved in a serious accident a few years back at the mouth of the brisbane river when the were relying on chartplotter and ran into the seaway wall you can never be too careful. They were taking precautions but you can never be too careful!!

cheers craig

[Noelm]

to put it as bluntly as I can, there is no amount of electronic gear/lights that can replace a pair of eyes attached to a functioning brain! all the gear in the world is nice, but it does not "see" everything and should never be relied on 100% as your means of getting out/home safely, sure it is far better than a wild stab in the dark (pun) take care, and drive to the conditions (and that applies not just to night time)

[deckie]

scottish...a lot is simply knowing your waterway well. A plotter can go a fair way but its still confidence that is needed. After awhile you know the area so well u can run it near blindfolded but you still dont stop worrying about whats in/on the water just up ahead. As u know even hitting a smallish branch can gouge the crap out of your hull or even rip the bait pump bracket off...gives u a nasty scare when the motor bounces up. I just dont like that feeling and i reckon even with radar on a 5m cuddy i wouldnt change much.

Things like cardinal and channel lights are better maintained and reliable these days, but when u pass one thats not lit/broken it still makes u wonder about the guy who doesnt know the area well.

One of the worst and most bizzarre prangs i can remember was seeing a 40 footer (with radar) high and dry 50m up on Long Reef point. Then u wonder about the worth of even tens of thousands of dollars of high tech when one of the more experienced boaties around can lose his life in familiar water on a calm night with high tech up the wazoo plus a designated navigator (andrew short). When its calm there's no rough water/breakers around the base of rocks which also doesnt help i guess.

Sensible speed...and a crawl in fog

[Angla]

I think your first comments might be a bit harsh there Angla.

One needs to consider that driving around with a flood /search light blaring out in front of you not only reduces you night vision - other than directly in front of you, but also hides your nav lights from other vessels. A boat comming from the opposite direction especially a small boat will only see a big white light and may not have any real idea in what you intentions are. Search/ flood lights have there uses but on an as required basis.

Thy you did the right thing by reducing light given off by your instruments (maybe not turning off the radio) - clear red contact stuck over the light panels helps to reduce the glare further. The stuff kids put over their text books at school.

Regards,
Richo

Thanks for that Richo. All is good. I just wanted to give a very pointed opinion towards a safe trip. I know there will be those that travel at night and rely on a little starlight to show them the way and then others with a similar opinion to mine.
In respect to spot lights shining into peoples eyes on other vessels I would like to tell you how I operate with my spottie.
The light is a search light and has a very good beam that will go some 2 km. It is remote controlled with a joy stick at the wheel and I will generally have it trained forwards so that I can see some 30-40 metres ahead. The action of the swell and waves means it does go up and down with the bow . Then every now and then I will turn it 45 degrees to the left and then 45 degrees to the right (this takes less than a second each way) to look for other boats in my vicinity, returning to the forward position. If I pick up another vessel in the beam I will identify it very quickly and then keep the light off them. I then maintain an appreciation of their position and travel direction if required.
If I am travelling in a channel with others then I will keep the light pointing lowest to my front so it is really only showing 5-10 metres in front. I do not use it to intentionally reduce others night vision.
This light is excellent for travelling in the open ocean in either calm or rough conditions.

Cheers
Chris

[deckie]

A great thread where we can all learn...and lucky there's a few guys up there ^^^ who really know their stuff. Most of us have just learnt from experience in their own dung holes i guess.

The spottie thing will be personal choice i guess. But i will say that when i see one on another boat i'm happy. At least i know he's coming towards me for starters coz who would be driving along with their spottie facing backwards ?..and even if he was he's not really a problem. To me its better than nav lights as long as its not a numbskull thinking its fun to shine it in your eyes. The new night light laws they brought in a few yrs ago are actually great, as long as people take it seriously, coz so many boats (i'm guilty too) had a tiny little halogen fixed to the gunnel down back and u just cant see it when on.

Just how accurate is your gps anyway ? Sure its supposed to be a few metres but then u hear and read stories like WW above ^^ and u wonder if people rely too much on them now and forego the common sense. Maybe they really arnt that dependable.

Thing is tho..it truly is the most beautiful time to be on the water i reckon. If you're a half sensible bloke u wont have a problem at all and soon learn to love it. Just dont be half asleep at anchor when a "mate" sneaks up and suddenly starts banging on your bow rail with his paddle and a grin on his face. To this day the closest to a coronary i've ever been.

[gaz066]

I fish at night in many different waterways and to put it simply (minus all the emotion ) my 2 cents worth .....the key points are in order of preference

1- Know your waterway ( do a few trips in the daylight and get your mental map right)
2-Check your nav lights before you leave home

3-Travel at a speed you are comfortable with
4 - Have a decent hand held spotty at the ready for quick bankside /channel marker or mystery object checks
5-Use electronic gizmo's (GPS AND sounder ) as aids or 'comfort' meters
6-Don't go alone till you have done a few night trips with others in their boats or yours
7-Trust your night vision in open water like big rivers the bay or offshore ( you will get confidence in it over time) and only use a spotty (fixed or hand held) when you know there are obstacles (like Mondy trees) ahead or your nudging back to into the ramp ( about the only time my spotty gets used around Brisbane) Up north with trees and rock bars it stays on!

After many years running at night I love it and it's a whole different ball game , there is nowhere else I would rather be than on the water at night in calm conditions , rough nights well ......stay home
You do need to keep an eye out for boats without lights there are still some f#$%^wits out there

[whiteman]

Night boating is easy compared to a rain storm where there is NO vision. That's when you seriously trust your electronics.

[Cheech]

Most of my trips are into the evening, and as long as I can remember, I have never seen a boat traveling at night with forward facing spotlights on (fortunately). I note one of the posts above saying that they are diverted when another boat is seen, but how close would they have to be before you see them? A lot closer than if there was no spotlight on I would think. Imagine that we are heading in opposite directions. You are coming in to port and am heading out. I will have to look straight at your spotlights until you eventually see me. Screwing up my night vision along the way. Even 3 or 4 k apart, the light would not be good.

[charleville]

Good night vision is so important for night boating. I would not go out if my night vision were not OK. ( A glaucoma test at an optometrist or eye specialist will tell you if you are losing peripheral vision due to glaucoma etc. )

If your night vision is hunky dory, I reckon that spot lights are a hindrance. I have used them at Jumpinpin when I was unsure as to where the channel markers are but if you know where they should be and don't travel too fast they are not hard to find in the dark, if your night vision is OK.

To assist your night vision, you need to block out every source of unnecessary, interfering light on your boat. eg I have erected shield behind my nav lights to hide reflections from them on the forward deck. That made a big difference to my being able to see clearly under power.



.

[johncar]

Instruments are just aids but can all help if used correctly.

You have to be able to see and keep watch while under way to be safe and legal.
I have also been a VMR standby Skipper with many rescues at night in varying conditions.
I really hope the spotties thing doesn't catch on, it would be really annoying at sea for everyone else. One flash in your eyes at night will temporarily blind you and if someone is heading towards you with that thing continually on then it will continually blind you and you could miss seeing something in between.
It would be very dangerous actually.

It would be very ignorant to drive around continually with any type of spotlight or even floodlights while underway at sea, unless they are directed straight down as work lights.
Otherwise they should only be used momentarily at close range in areas with difficult navigation or known hazards.

I have done 100's of night trips and will only go if I can see and have adequate night vision. When there is no moonlight or totally clouded over I would not take the risk these days. I have been pressured into going in poor night conditions in the past but won't again.

Always drive at a conservative speed regardless.

One night I came close to grief was when I was temporarily blinded while passing steadily between two anchored boats about 70 metres apart.
No spot lights, they were just well lit up and fishing away.

I decided to pull up as I had lost my night vision due to their lights and I put the spottie on ahead and yes there was some lunatic in a tinnie (No lights at all!!) anchored 20 metres dead ahead. Then I copped a mouthful of abuse from them, go figure?.

So I went along side and told them they are invisable but I don't think they got it, because they had plenty of light in the floor of their boat and any approaching boat is gonna see that. Not..

Anyway my advice is:

Know your area very well. Know your compass headings, know your depths.
Ensure that you have the correct navigation lighting working.
Minimise or eliminate all light pollution in your boat which may need either turning off instrument lights or covering them.

Two sets of eyes are better than one.
If you feel the need to watch instruments then hopefully you have an crewman to keep watch, but someone must.

If you unexpectantly get caught in fog or smoke as I did a couple of times when Moreton Island had bushfires, proceed with extreme caution. It is very daunting to be in this situation worrying that some crazy will be flying through there just relying on instruments and not see you in time.

[fishing111]

What worries me equally as much as the dope's with no lights is the dope who has absolute blind uncompromising faith in there chartplotter. I've seen guy's screaming along in the darkness and just wonder, why?

[deckie]

Still amazing how many new boats you see with the anchor light placed in front of the windscreen in your vision. In the states its common to see a little plate under them to stop the light going downwards. You can easily do this and helps if it shines on the deck in front of you.

We might complain about the odd spottie shining at you momentarily but whats the reality ? Every night on the roads we deal with this. Some blokes forgetting their high beams are on etc. Its what we are used to on the raods. Its a bit different on the water though coz to me its nowhere near as bad and can be a comfort. If that light is on you for a second it tells you that the other guy has seen you. What Angla said above is exactly right..you tend to use them in a sweeping manner ahead. If i get it in the eye a little to be honest i dont mind that much. Its a little akin to early morn/late arvo on the roads where u can turn into the sun and be blinded but nowhere near that bad. Its just part of "driving" and u look away protect your sight. On the water tho i've learnt its not really THAT bad and happier knowing he's seen me. I dont whinge about the roads at night and peoples driving lights...its far far worse on the roads and we just accept that. Anyone driving in the country has known that blind feeling where the bloke coming at hasnt dimmed his lights...this by comparison is nothing i reckon. No margin for error with combined closing speeds of 200kph passing 2m from each other...what are we worried about on the water ?

You know they're still out there...the guy sitting in the dark thinking he's sweet or couldnt give a shit. When the new anchor light laws came in it seemed some people were more interested in arguing about the wording of it and/or how to get around it...rather than just accepting it was long overdue and probably the best help we've had for ages.

[PinHead]

at night , I prefer to have nav and all round lights on and nothing else..easier to see beacons etc

[wethog81]

That infrared idea sounds like an absolutely fantastic idea. So much so, I just went on to have a look at prices for a waterproof unit. On a U.S. site, rugged cctv, it is called, they have an fully sealed infrared cctv camera for boats called the Atlantis, for $250.00 U.S. dollars and they do ship internationally. I may have to invest in one myself. Cracka of an idea.
Cheers Richo

Wethog

[Lucky 1]

I use my gps and a blindfold ( to eliminate cabin lights) to navigate around the bay. I know I am in the channels when I start running over crab pots, they act like markers, just like playing pac man. ;D

[tenzing]

I use my gps and a blindfold ( to eliminate cabin lights) to navigate around the bay. I know I am in the channels when I start running over crab pots, they act like markers, just like playing pac man. ;D
You dont even need the blindfold cos the floats on the pots in the channel are painted black to make them easier to run over.
Brendan

[pontificator]

I for one would never go fishing with anyone on a hope that you do not hit something.

You're a nong

How much is a torch worth up against the cost of what might happen.
Have you ever seen a yacht at anchor with a single white light up the mast, it looks like a star but I reckon when you hit the yacht you will be seeing stars.

Get a light or go when it is light!

I do go at night with safety in mind hence the search light and before that it was a hand held spotlight.

You are a right dill

Cheers
Chris

That might be right where you are Chris, generally plenty of ambient light on inshore Sunny Coast to see where you are going. I guess everyone's eyes are different, and no windscreen or clears to contend with in our case

[Richo1]

Wethog, this was the brand I used - they have them on the new CityCats now.

www.flir.com/cvs/americas/en/maritime/ (http://www.flir.com/cvs/americas/en/maritime/)

In my opinion they far out weighed Radar in close quarters and up to a mile away, you could even see the surface of the water and individual waves. Have a Joystick control, zoom function and a choice of colours to suit different light conditions. Could even zoom in to an individual passenger of another boat. :) Would be great in search and rescue situations. But like all equipment an aid to navigation and not to be relied on solely.

[thylacene]

At almost $22K http://www.############.com.au/product_details.php?g_ProductID=2208

I am leaning towards running over the unlit tinnie and not stopping ;D;D;D

[wethog81]

Yep. Don't think I will be bying one of those buggers any time soon. My hull is 3mm plate steel, and therefore, can afford to hit a jetski or ten. ha ha. On a serious note though Richo, they do look like great gadgets, and unlike the ones that i was looking at, they have thermal imaging as well. Good for when you fall in drunk;)

[thylacene]

You would imagine they could be built for a fraction of that if the quantities were large enough. Would be nice to see these on all boats, a bit like air bags, used to be the luxury vehicles, now even shopping trolleys have them.

[fishing111]

I read somewhere a while back that law enforcement don't want flir technology out in the mainstream. Be buggered if i can find it now though, but the brunt of it was that it has the potential to be misused.

[OPTI]

there are two main types of flir for marine use ,one is 7k the other is 12k,not cheap but seriously good,on my wish list thats for sure.in the mean time ive installed a remote controlled golight ,bla are now distributing them in aus,very easy to install as the remote control is wireless

[Richo1]

Just saw your thread Opti and it left me speechless! Niiice! A FLIR would really finish it off, that is if there is still room on the dash.

[seren-y-mor]

Thanks for that Richo. All is good. I just wanted to give a very pointed opinion towards a safe trip. I know there will be those that travel at night and rely on a little starlight to show them the way and then others with a similar opinion to mine.
In respect to spot lights shining into peoples eyes on other vessels I would like to tell you how I operate with my spottie.
The light is a search light and has a very good beam that will go some 2 km. It is remote controlled with a joy stick at the wheel and I will generally have it trained forwards so that I can see some 30-40 metres ahead. The action of the swell and waves means it does go up and down with the bow . Then every now and then I will turn it 45 degrees to the left and then 45 degrees to the right (this takes less than a second each way) to look for other boats in my vicinity, returning to the forward position. If I pick up another vessel in the beam I will identify it very quickly and then keep the light off them. I then maintain an appreciation of their position and travel direction if required.
If I am travelling in a channel with others then I will keep the light pointing lowest to my front so it is really only showing 5-10 metres in front. I do not use it to intentionally reduce others night vision.
This light is excellent for travelling in the open ocean in either calm or rough conditions.

Cheers
Chris

so angla, listen to what noelm is saying because considering your meant to be able to stop your vessel in half the distance you can see in restricted vis, how are you going to pull up if you have your spotlights showing 5-10 metres in front of you? I work nights driving a 24 metre fast cat ferry and we get to see a lot of incorrect light configarations but spotlights facing forwards unless used for work or berthing or are compleatly useless, stick to the rules like everyone else so we know what you are doing and where you are heading, and insted of using an all round light try using a mast head light and a stern light with your red and green. and keep the all round for anchoring.
Thanks Jason

[marto78]

When we travel in the dark the sounder and gps are on the dimmest setting and pointing down, we usually use the gps for a heading and then line up the moon or a distinctive pattern of stars to try and keep the night vision at its best.

If fishing somewhere like Donnybrook the spotties on all the time.

[Blusta]

Does anyone use silver SOLAS tape on their boats as a reflector?

[nigelr]

Now that's a great idea blusta!

[GBC]

I carry a beach towel or wet weather gear to throw over the dash instruments when running at night.
There is absolutely no way I would ever run with spotlights on unless I was searching for a man overboard or in a very tight unmarked waterway.

[Mister]

Has everybody happily running at night filled in their Darwin award application?

[webby]

It doesnt help much when seeing whats in front, but it helps a great deal in side the cab, seeing whats going on and reading the screens.
I changed the fluros under the canopy to red, and they light up the cabin real well, without throwing any glare onto the dash, there also great when fishing in the dark as they throw no bright light onto the water, especially when fishing the bay shallows.

[thylacene]

Has everybody happily running at night filled in their Darwin award application?

It is an exercise in risk management, and happy to admit that I could and should have been better prepared. That said, I now have a checklist that I will use before heading out next time. I also have a couple of minor mods to make, have acquired covers for the radios and know how to switch the lights off, and will shroud the compass light to avoid reflection off the windscreen, and make a red plastic filter for the GPS.

The same criteria apply as travelling in the daylight, with extra considerations. Coming to terms with unfamiliar conditions was the stressful part, once I settled into what I was doing it was fine, with much concentration on the job at hand.

Take the right precautions and prepare correctly and the risk levels become acceptable. And treat every thing you do as a learning experience, taking a conservative approach so as to not push the boundaries too far at any time.

[GBC]

Has everybody happily running at night filled in their Darwin award application?

If you don't go on the ocean at night you don't know what you're missing.

[hakuna]

I installed a blackout switch, takes all lights out when required and run on night vision and radar. Best way I have found crossing bars, especially white water bars. You may not See me but I am watching you.

[frankgrimes]

If you don't go on the ocean at night you don't know what you're missing.

Absolutely!! Can get a bit spooky out there by yourself sometimes though!

Mick

[nigelr]

So hakuna, excuse my ignorance but does the radar help you cross breaking bars? Does it show up on-coming waves, by which I mean ones that are approaching the surf zone and have yet to break, or are you relying solely on night vision, star and or moonlight?
Cheers.

[Horse]

I'm another of the dark runners. I have legal navigation lights and dimmed electronics running. A hand held spotty is ready for use but is seldom turned on. I have come across many boats blazing away with spotties and to me they are a hazard as they destroy my night vision for fair while. With a little moon I can see wave formations quite clearly and navigation lights show up well even when they are quite faint. I run a CC with great visability and feel pretty confident at night
I only travel in areas I know well and keep the speed down to something I am comfortable with

[charleville]

If you don't go on the ocean at night you don't know what you're missing.

Absolutely!


There ain't nuthin' like going fishing at night! It is a totally sensuous experience - enriched smells, sounds, temperature, breezes, stunning skyscape.... and bigger fish!


Of course, if you are the sort of bloke who was terrified by his first sexual experience because it was all dark and you were on your own, well I can understand your being scared of night fishing and boating. ;D



.

[Angla]

so angla, listen to what noelm is saying because considering your meant to be able to stop your vessel in half the distance you can see in restricted vis, how are you going to pull up if you have your spotlights showing 5-10 metres in front of you? I work nights driving a 24 metre fast cat ferry and we get to see a lot of incorrect light configarations but spotlights facing forwards unless used for work or berthing or are compleatly useless, stick to the rules like everyone else so we know what you are doing and where you are heading, and insted of using an all round light try using a mast head light and a stern light with your red and green. and keep the all round for anchoring.
Thanks Jason

Is there a rule that says I cannot run a search light for travelling at night?
Do you operate your fast cat ferry across the bay in areas where fisho's lay crab pots?
Have you tried coming back in 25 knotts and pitch black conditions around Combuyoro at night?

I think your eyes will adjust once I have gone past safely and considerately.

Has a 24 metre Fast Cat Ferry ever hit another vessel? I haven't, day or night!:-*

Cheers
Chris

[Richo1]

Hi all,
Topic has proven to be a hot one, probably because it is hard to apply one rule to all situations.
Night time should not be confused with restricted visibility, restricted visibility is caused by conditions such as heavy sea/spray, smoke, rain, fog, haze etc. and will happen day or night. On average, most nights you can have at least 10mile visibility of lights (depending on their strength height etc)

Here it is the as far as the rules go; that any other lights used onboard should not interfere with the visibility of your vessels navigation lights.

Collision Regulations

Part C - Lights & Shapes
Rule 20 Application
a) Rules in this application shall be complied with in all weathers
b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken from the lights specified in these rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character or interfere with the keeping of a proper lookout.

Now this doesn't mean you can't use a searchlight for identifying an unlit boat or channel markers, crabpots etc..
But for a vessel less than 12m your mast head light must be visible for 2 miles, side lights 1 mile and stern light 2 miles.
A good spottie would probably be visible for 5 miles and therefore hide your nav lights - if facing directly ahead and used constantly.

Hope that helps.

[deckie]

Rules are fine but maybe some commonsense is just as important.

A silly thing about the rule above is that accidents at night are caused by people NOT seeing the other guy whether they're at rest or moving...and not havinjg any warning re seeing an object right in front of you. Fix those two things become SAFE. Compared to our cars we have the tiniest dumbest little lights and expected to see with them, interpret them, then allow for them. Whinging about someones night vision is the dumbest thing i;ve heard and an excuse nobody talks about in their car...its accepted that u are driving straight into headlights constantly. On the road its far more dangerous coz you;re passing nearby at greater speed but people want to whine that they hate seeing a spottie on the water ? Spare me..take a drive on a dirt country road one night and turn ya headlights off...that should help your night vision hugely :P

BEST light is the one you can see for miles...if i see a spottie i'm happy and if it shines on me i also know that i've been seen by the other guy, rather than pretending its somehow horrible for my "night vision".

I think some of the plus and minus stuff tho comes from different areas or if its built up enclosed water or not. Big difference getting along the week of a new moon on a cloudy night in Cowan Creek to getting along past waterfronts in a harbour on a full moon. Not saying they should be on all the time but if i'm supposed to be responsible for people on board i'd rather be safe and use them intermittently, than second guess the water in front of me and trust the other guy isnt a flog. Pitch black i can even run the spottie onto the shore out in front and keep a set distance. Other nights it doesnt get used at all. Just saying i'd rather not pretend my "night vision" is more important than actually CLEARLY seeing what is just ahead on the water and having warning. If there's any sort of mist though or moon they're no help at all.

Agree with others about being out at night. Just magic time on the water and u kind get hooked on it. Spooky but fun.

[hakuna]

So hakuna, excuse my ignorance but does the radar help you cross breaking bars? Does it show up on-coming waves, by which I mean ones that are approaching the surf zone and have yet to break, or are you relying solely on night vision, star and or moonlight?
Cheers.

Radar only shows other boats around, also will show if there is white water on the bar when you are coming to it. You do not use it to cross but.
I have very good night vision, most places on a black night still has a fair bit of light as in gold coast, bars like evans head are simple in white water as it is not like the pin, only one set to skip through. If the hole to get through is not long, then you go through the last breaking wave of the set. After it breaks of course. Wouldn't do this unless you are sure of what you are doing but.
Hard to explain how to cross, have taught a few blokes over the years including my kids, you look at shadows not waves, and you don't look at the bar but use your periffial vision, you can see them. Been doing it for 30 yrs with no problems. Easier to explain on the water and show where to look.

[deckie]

Try the small plate under the anchor light too...in the driveway at night just keep cutting it and refitting till u get no downlight on the boat..helps.

[Spaniard_King]

Rules are fine but maybe some commonsense is just as important.

A silly thing about the rule above is that accidents at night are caused by people NOT seeing the other guy whether they're at rest or moving...and not havinjg any warning re seeing an object right in front of you. Fix those two things become SAFE. Compared to our cars we have the tiniest dumbest little lights and expected to see with them, interpret them, then allow for them. Whinging about someones night vision is the dumbest thing i;ve heard and an excuse nobody talks about in their car...its accepted that u are driving straight into headlights constantly. On the road its far more dangerous coz you;re passing nearby at greater speed but people want to whine that they hate seeing a spottie on the water ? Spare me..take a drive on a dirt country road one night and turn ya headlights off...that should help your night vision hugely :P

BEST light is the one you can see for miles...if i see a spottie i'm happy and if it shines on me i also know that i've been seen by the other guy, rather than pretending its somehow horrible for my "night vision".

I think some of the plus and minus stuff tho comes from different areas or if its built up enclosed water or not. Big difference getting along the week of a new moon on a cloudy night in Cowan Creek to getting along past waterfronts in a harbour on a full moon. Not saying they should be on all the time but if i'm supposed to be responsible for people on board i'd rather be safe and use them intermittently, than second guess the water in front of me and trust the other guy isnt a flog. Pitch black i can even run the spottie onto the shore out in front and keep a set distance. Other nights it doesnt get used at all. Just saying i'd rather not pretend my "night vision" is more important than actually CLEARLY seeing what is just ahead on the water and having warning. If there's any sort of mist though or moon they're no help at all.

Agree with others about being out at night. Just magic time on the water and u kind get hooked on it. Spooky but fun.

So drive along and turn your lights off when you see an oncoming car.. then see how good your night vision is... Might be good for the person with the lights but is extremely dangerous to those around you.:o

[deckie]

Garry just trying to make a point. ok pretty stupid way of saying it. ::) Everytime u drive at night though you;re faced with this situation.

If closing headlong at a combined 200kph on the piliga scrub road and needing to pass 6 feet apart...his headlights on and if you're lucky he's dropped his driving lights, how's you're vision ? It sux....but can you actually do the road in the first place without them on ? You can see the guy coming for 5km, you know he's heading toward you coz u effectively see his spotties. You can safely pass within 6 ft. What exactly are we talking about here (on the water) in terms of it being UNsafe or somehow blinding us ?

If the other guy had no headlights either how would you go ?..and what if there's a guy having a sleep parked on the side of the road ? Ok i admit it aint exactly the same thing but this attitude of thinking its best to just blacken yaself out apart from a cpl of dinky little lights, and pretend we have cat like night vision maybe isnt always the way to go.

[PinHead]

the analogy of the road and water is useless..most roads have white lines down the middle and on both side as well as guide posts..even with oncoming lights you can still see where you are going by those items..alas these are not on the water..as I said..I perfer to only have on thel ights I have to have on..but others may want to use spotlights..to each his own.

I was driving down through the Piliga many years back at about 2.30am..bloody roo did not care I had spotties on..well until I hit the mongrel thing and then no spotties at all.

[deckie]

great piece of road at night, if u can stay awake :o. Same with the Stuart hwy leaving Alice north...dont go over about 80 kph till dawn or you'll hit one. Truck bull bars on that road must do a lot of work.

ok pretend its a dirt road, no markings no..ahhh foirget it. You're right dumb analogy. Just ignore me 8-)

[charleville]

bloody roo did not care I had spotties on..well until I hit the mongrel thing and then no spotties at all.



Just spots. ;D


.

[FishHunter]

I was pottering along last night looking for a place to anchor up out of the wind all lights off except nav lights. Nothing on chart, 8m of water when I saw something odd off to starboard. looked like the water was a different colour hit my docking lights and it was a rock about 15m away and about 10m in front of me was a wall of rock maybe 3m high sticking straight up out of the water. Needless to say my rectum puckered up and I got the hell out of there.
If I didn't have those lights on the front of the boat I would have been swimming.

Why didnt I see it with my wonderful night vision? Dried spray on the windscreen and no moon were the biggest causes.

Give me some big badass lights anytime.

[johncar]

For anyone who wishes to use headlights on their boat at night, Please don't make comparisons with cars on roads vs Boats on the water. There are no white or yellow lines out on the water, not that I have noticed anyway.
The two things are not the same and the safe navigation rules apply. Please follow these rules for yours and others safety as they have not been made by fools.


If you can't trust your night vision and still wish to be out on the sea at night then you should invest in FLIR and radar and have a crew to watch those instruments while you drive and keep watch.
Proper Marine navigation lights are there for everyones safety at sea and if anyone is not prepared to follow them, they should hand in their ships licence or otherwise stay at home at night please.

NO HEADLIGHTS!! It is illegal, there is no debate here. It's unsafe for the larger boating/shipping community..

If I come across anyone on the water with headlights continually on and blinding me I will be taking the boat details, Rego number and lodging a complaint to the appropriate authority for endangerment at sea. I thinks it's that dangerous.

I'll be the one with the spotlight on your side as you drive by..


I'll put a simple scenio to the doubters, maybe you'll get it, maybe not..

I am on the water and faced with what appears to be an oncoming vessel with headlight on, I now have no night vision.
I have absolutely no vision now of the water in front of me or my surrounds, it is also likely that the oncoming boats headlights are lighting up the internal cab of my boat making matters worse. Even if I had my own head light on I wouldn't see much better

The correct and only thing for me to do is stop until the offending boat has passed and I can see once again which may take a few minutes. I should not have to do this!

Sure I can't miss the boat with the big light on, that's not the one I am concerned about.
If I continued under way now driving blind, it is quite possible that there is another boat/boats with their legal nav lights on travelling in any direction possibly also blinded by these lights or they may be flanking the offending vessel but not visible to me.
So if I remained under way, a collision is possible or likely.

Other vessels may be following me may decide not to stop but may also not be able to see me now due to the lights in their eyes and my stern light may not be visible due to the more intense headlight. Another risk of collision.

If you still think it's a good idea then go out to sea with a mate in another boat and from a mile or two apart start heading towards each other with lights ablazing at each other and see how much you can see of anything else, like other vessels and remember no body is following road marking lines out there, not to mention the risk of not seeing other important items such as navigation beacons, bouys, barges, whatever. See how confident you feel driving at speed only being able to see that one bright light or lights and nothing else.

It's not a skinny strip of tar with lines or without. The whole sea is a road, all directions, all speeds and headlights are a definite hazzard due to their blinding effects.

But as far as the road goes, I was once blinded by an oncoming car with high beam locked in on the highway and even though I had my headlights on I failed to see a full grown brown cow standing right in front of me untill it was too late. I hit it before I could hit the brake pedal. Wrote off my car and lived to fight another fish. We are lucky that people don't stop on our highways to have a fish, it would be the same result.

My rant for today.
Enough said..

[deckie]

Yeah hellova rant. Unfortunately though noone has headlights on the water. They just use a spottie when needed.

These overiding assumptions of "no vision" are just exxagerated garbage...if thats all it takes dont drive on our roads at night either. Obviously it YOU that is unsafe to be out there...or need to learn how not to stare straight into someones light.

Spotties are used for precisely the reason that there are no white lines, yellow lines, stop signs, or any other markings out there. Nor is there a sign to say turn left coz you;re about to run over a trap rope and rip your motor off the back, nor a sign saying the bloke in that other boat with no lights on is sober. They are trained on the water when needed or unsure and if u dont have one stick to nights with plenty of moon or areas where there's lots of light.

Whether you like it or not they;re essential on many occasions. If you;re the dobbing type or cant tolerate people doing things safely but not the way u do ...dont have a pretend whinge in here...get yourself a thick pad of paper and a waterproof crayon to jot down everyones "number"....coz every trailerboat in my area carries them and needs them.

You can start right here. Wouldnt catch me out there WITHOUT one.

[OPTI]

for those amongst us on the gold coast ,just try and navigate the coomera river north arm at night without a spotlight,[the channel markers dont have lights],some places they are essential others they arnt.use what ever makesYOU safe ,thats ,my rule.

[FishHunter]

For anyone who wishes to use headlights on their boat at night, Please don't make comparisons with cars on roads vs Boats on the water. There are no white or yellow lines out on the water, not that I have noticed anyway.
The two things are not the same and the safe navigation rules apply. Please follow these rules for yours and others safety as they have not been made by fools.


If you can't trust your night vision and still wish to be out on the sea at night then you should invest in FLIR and radar and have a crew to watch those instruments while you drive and keep watch.
Proper Marine navigation lights are there for everyones safety at sea and if anyone is not prepared to follow them, they should hand in their ships licence or otherwise stay at home at night please.

NO HEADLIGHTS!! It is illegal, there is no debate here. It's unsafe for the larger boating/shipping community..

If I come across anyone on the water with headlights continually on and blinding me I will be taking the boat details, Rego number and lodging a complaint to the appropriate authority for endangerment at sea. I thinks it's that dangerous.

I'll be the one with the spotlight on your side as you drive by..


I'll put a simple scenio to the doubters, maybe you'll get it, maybe not..

I am on the water and faced with what appears to be an oncoming vessel with headlight on, I now have no night vision.
I have absolutely no vision now of the water in front of me or my surrounds, it is also likely that the oncoming boats headlights are lighting up the internal cab of my boat making matters worse. Even if I had my own head light on I wouldn't see much better

The correct and only thing for me to do is stop until the offending boat has passed and I can see once again which may take a few minutes. I should not have to do this!

Sure I can't miss the boat with the big light on, that's not the one I am concerned about.
If I continued under way now driving blind, it is quite possible that there is another boat/boats with their legal nav lights on travelling in any direction possibly also blinded by these lights or they may be flanking the offending vessel but not visible to me.
So if I remained under way, a collision is possible or likely.

Other vessels may be following me may decide not to stop but may also not be able to see me now due to the lights in their eyes and my stern light may not be visible due to the more intense headlight. Another risk of collision.

If you still think it's a good idea then go out to sea with a mate in another boat and from a mile or two apart start heading towards each other with lights ablazing at each other and see how much you can see of anything else, like other vessels and remember no body is following road marking lines out there, not to mention the risk of not seeing other important items such as navigation beacons, bouys, barges, whatever. See how confident you feel driving at speed only being able to see that one bright light or lights and nothing else.

It's not a skinny strip of tar with lines or without. The whole sea is a road, all directions, all speeds and headlights are a definite hazzard due to their blinding effects.

But as far as the road goes, I was once blinded by an oncoming car with high beam locked in on the highway and even though I had my headlights on I failed to see a full grown brown cow standing right in front of me untill it was too late. I hit it before I could hit the brake pedal. Wrote off my car and lived to fight another fish. We are lucky that people don't stop on our highways to have a fish, it would be the same result.

My rant for today.
Enough said..

So to keep you happy I must endanger my life? You know where you can stick that idea.
I have the a couple of spotties on my boat and I will use them when in doubt to safeguard ME, you take whatever steps you need to to safeguard yourself.

[Richo1]

These overiding assumptions of "no vision" are just exxagerated garbage...


I don't think so deckie ::) you will find the research has already been done.

"Dark adaptation is the improvement of vision in dim light. It is very difficult to see colours at night. Most objects are seen in various shades of grey. Although dark adaptation requires at least 30minutes, a bright light will destroy night vision in a fraction of a second. In this brief period, the eyes readjust themselves to daylight conditions and the process of dark adaptation must begin all over again." - US Coast Guard - Seamanship Manual

Try driving without the bright lights - just for a little bit and you might find that your not being blinded by your own lights. You may have to slow down abit tho.

[deckie]

Richo..with all due respect i dont care about research. I just care about the reality of being on the water at night..SAFELY. Experience to me is worth a million research papers. Also as a pretend skipper of a lil tub, if anyone else is onboard i am also responsible for them. I'm going to be safe..not conform to someone else's silly notion that there's a right way and a wrong way, or read some uni students phd. Zero interest.

I know u know what you;re talking about but maybe you;ve misinterpreted what i;m saying a bit...i dont switch a light on like starting the car. Its only used every now and then and saved me from close calls many a time. I spend the vast majority of my time getting around without one relying on what people in here call their "night vision". time they're useless, others they;re a great help.

Tell u what johncar...if you're heading toward a guy with a light facing you i reckon u should get out of the way instead of complaining about being able to see less. Not often you;re lucky enough to be heading straight into a spottie but i;m guessing its truly telling u something...90% of times they;re off to the side...so on that odd occasion try your best to avoid it first instead of thinking what a pain it is.

I can only imagine all these people holding a hand over their eyes on their local road going..."my eyeesss my eyyyeesss !!! oh god my night vison is gone !! i cant seeeee !! book that prick !! " every 5 seconds...coz on the road they really are coming at you..and all the time.

You simply travel to the conditions.

[Horse]

Deckie, I think you are missing the point of what a few of us are saying. Many of us have a spottie on hand to check out anything that looks a bit suss but for most of the time we run with minimal lighting. I will often stooge around for a few minutes after giving a spotty blast to allow my eyes to adapt again before taking off again. If not I'm running blind

As for the angles that a boats fixed spotties are aiming at you have realise that a boat is moving in three directions at once and the ones that run floodlights are shooting all over the place. It only takes a moment of head on with a bright light and others are in trouble. Even when they are not pointed at you they "kill" the red and gren navigation lights which are so important for others to determine what direction another vessel is travelling in

For those that say they need floodlights to feel safe I ask if they have ever tried the alternative

[Spaniard_King]

Big difference between spotlighting and driving using lights as headlights.

I can't beleive some of the arragant remarks surfacing in this thread towards others on the water at night.

[Mister]

Puts a chill up ya spine to think there's clowns running aorund in the dark with attitudes like they have.

Yet some talk about assessing the risk? More like trying to convince themselves against the odds, convince yourself all you like the consequence does not change.

[Angla]

In the real world where I was travelling pre Twilight in a Norterly direction past Coolum, about 2 Km off shore, I would have run over a unlit kayakker and most likely killed him if it were not for my searchlight. That's the truth here and the only reason that dumbass is still alive. It was a moonless night but the stars were out so I may have been able to travel without the searchlight but would I still have been able to see him? I cannot answer that for you skeptics.

Cheers
Chris

[Richo1]

What will it take for some of these guys to get the message, with Kyakking becoming an increasing trend there will alot more out on the water and in the hours of darkness. The rowers haven't got the message on the river yet, even after being run over a few times!
Angla from the earlier photo of your search light, i like the position you have it mounted, under the bowsprit. It would be least likely to interfere with your nav lights, or hit another boatie of similar size or larger in the eyes. Looks like you have a nice rig there.

[TimiBoy]

No substitute for Radar at night. Mine would show waves for bar crossing, and picked up whales surfacing, kayaks, boats and rocks. In night, in fog. My next tub will of course have it.

As for people with searchlights? If you need it, fine, but I don't hold with just driving with them on - I will always stop until you've gone.

Cheers,

tim

[deckie]

Deckie, I think you are missing the point of what a few of us are saying. Many of us have a spottie on hand to check out anything that looks a bit suss but for most of the time we run with minimal lighting. I will often stooge around for a few minutes after giving a spotty blast to allow my eyes to adapt again before taking off again. If not I'm running blind

As for the angles that a boats fixed spotties are aiming at you have realise that a boat is moving in three directions at once and the ones that run floodlights are shooting all over the place. It only takes a moment of head on with a bright light and others are in trouble. Even when they are not pointed at you they "kill" the red and gren navigation lights which are so important for others to determine what direction another vessel is travelling in

For those that say they need floodlights to feel safe I ask if they have ever tried the alternative
Nahhh 'm not missing any point, and yes i think most have tried all alternatives to be safer, other than perhaps radar and flir etc which unless you;re running 7m plus rigs just isnt practical lets face it...nor would i trust a radar anyway just like i dont trust a gps..theyre just tools to HELP like a spottie on occasions. In fact i'd say i run things pretty similar to everyone else and rely on the same night vision running dark. I just dont want to exaggerate anything after so much time out there. I stare into the same lights, same spotties hit me as hit everyone else right ? Why is it i dont have this much of a problem that a few others in here seem to ? Yes i know the effect on my eyes but i'd rather not whine about a bloke at least preparted to be seen and wanting to see you...i cant hit him or any guy behind him for that matter.

Where i differ is on the safety aspect as well as the practicality of it all out there. It took how many years ?? for a simple rule change about our anchor lights to force people to make them visible. Still in here we had people saying it was stupid or arguing over moot points when they knew all the rule was trying to say. Silly little weak anchor lights stuck down back where u cant see them was one of my big beefs, finally it was changed. THEN i find out a huge number actually thought their anchor light was supposed to be only when u anchor ::). Its a clue to what is out there..never doubt the power of stupidity ..its real and often right in front of you at night. Why risk it. With the advent of led's getting more powerful maybe its now time to force nav lights on small craft to also be more powerful, but thats another gripe in itself. The problem is not with bigger rigs/ferries/ships/workboats etc...not only are they better lit but also skippered by experienced/qaulified guys...its still the car topper/yaktwit/oldguy with a handline/waterfront kid that snuck out for a fish.. etc etc.

In a nutshell u are either underway or not ...if u stick to two things you;ll be safe...PLENTY of LIGHT so you can be seen at rest as well as underway....plus going slow. Combine the two with the rules of night nav and noone really has any problem with YOU, other than maybe the odd whinger about being somehow thrust into a state of amazing sudden blindness where they need to pull over and take a rest for 3 minutes or longer ?? Spare me the exaggeration is what i'm also asking...i dont need to think about it..i'm out there myself so i know. I know the effect well but i'm not about to complain about someone who wants to be seen and to see...its the weekend warrior with his amazingly sensitive catlike night vision thats darkened himself out apart from a cpl of piss weak old halogen nav lights and an all round down the back that pisses me off. When you;re going past waterfronts or lots of reflected light its just as confusing or invisible as anything in realty. You need to darken your own rig yes..but not at the expense of safety toward others. Maybe it just doesnt effect me as much but perhaps its also coz i look away as any sensible person would driving anything.

Unfortunately we live in the real world and cant trust others to care. After scarey experiences you take precautions. What i do know is WHERE they'll be in my system. Any significant point or any significant isolated marker...if the tides running out and i'm running with it they'll be just around the corner in the eddy...fishing where you might. So i'll take a wide berth but swipe the spottie across as i'm going around just in case. This is in areas of zero light...all national park, dark as you can get. If thats a pain for someone at rest i dont giveashit...they should thank me for not taking ANY risk with their lives by pretending i have some sort of nocturnal vision. They're just as likely to be in the middle of the channel..when people fish they dont think.

Break down what causes accidents at night. What is the most common over riding factor other than perhaps grog ?.... SOMEONE COULDNT BE SEEN ! Head on collisions by comparison to others seem far less a risk but still related to the same thing...SOMEONE COULDNT BE SEEN, and when happening usually its coz some idiot was pissed or just going too fast to have any reaction time on enclosed waters with traffic. The enquiries that follow most serious accidents at night so often seem to involve one parked and one underway..or one small vessel with very little or no lighting being "run over". Either way the ONLY consistent SAFETY factors are LACK OF LIGHT and SPEED. Its not a bloke being so called "blinded" by someones light suddenly veering up onto rocks or smashing into another rig....its possible like a thousand other things but just not the problem others seem to think it is. My guess is some just get a hatred for a spottie coz its a pain to them...instead of realising what it means..they're safe from that guy...its whinging without thinking of the benefits. Point is too much light in any form isnt as big a safety issue as too little light.

We conform to rules, though often a bit loosely coz some things arnt practical. I dont carry a glove and bag in case the dog takes a shit on someones nature strip, so hang me...some things just aint practical. The yak that angla came across is just normal in big city waterways like Syd. Wont be me that hits him..i hope. Far more likely to be the bloke straining his eyes to see ahead in the dark, or thinking his night vision is something it really isnt.

Two more things u should consider. Anyone thats been out a bit knows you can hear a 2 stroke coming a mile off...not as easy to hear 4 strokes so u tend to see guys parked swiping a torch if they hear a motor, making double sure they've been seen. Whether thats legal or not as well i dont care nor blame them at all..its safety.

The other thing is guys who run pretty solid deck lights. You see these hella powerbeam things and you;re talking almost the same thing as a spottie...same effect. Then you have the guy who runs his deck lights on the same curcuit as his huge docking light up on the flybridge...run em off their onan all bloody night to party out there...they dont just shine down either. You want to think laws ?... that will confuse just as many as anything else and cause your "night vision" just as many problems. Why whinge tho ?..he can be seen..you know he's there.

How about you be safe and safe to others, instead of whinging or being selfish about your precious night vision we all use.

[seren-y-mor]

Is there a rule that says I cannot run a search light for travelling at night?
Do you operate your fast cat ferry across the bay in areas where fisho's lay crab pots?
Have you tried coming back in 25 knotts and pitch black conditions around Combuyoro at night?

I think your eyes will adjust once I have gone past safely and considerately.

Has a 24 metre Fast Cat Ferry ever hit another vessel? I haven't, day or night!:-*

Cheers
Chris

rule 20 part b application, learn your col regs angla or should you now be known as capt pugwash;D
do you seriously think that your examples in the above text havent been encounterd by anyone else?
or maybe you havnt hit anything or caused somone else to hit anything is because you only head out once or twice a month:-?

[trueblue]

all oilfield supply boats and crew boats (IMO boats - 80 to 150 feet etc) all run massive spotlights and their masters certainly don't get concerned about throwing down a massive beam of light where necessary to ensure nothing goes bump in the night.

By massive spotlight I mean a 2 foot diameter remote control search light mounted on the bridge roof about 40 feet above waterline - lights that throw a solid searching beam about half a mile and can be seen as a bright light to the horizon - and these masters don't stop using them just because there is another vessel in the area - all they do is avoid putting the beam onto the other boats in the area

and when they use these big search lights their normal navigational lights are all visible



I fail to see the issue with use of a very small spotlight mounted on a recreational boat under the bowsprit, about 2 feet off the water.

[Mister]

Here we go, the consequence of travelling in the dark
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?176137-boat-sunk-at-shark-nets&p=1287574&posted=1#post1287574

Consequence Severity major, probability has occured and will occur again, resulting in financial loss, embarrassment (to say the least) but high probability of significant injury possibly resulting in multiple fatalities.

[deckie]

This will go nowhere and the guy asking will learn nothing unless people dont blow it off. Its bloody important.

Thylacene..hopefully reading this thread will at least let u know there are plenty of idiots out there. Most just pig headed, selfish or will never change their ways. You get the distinct impression some have never even run up a mangrove lined creek on a dark night or got around anywhere but a gold coast channel or where there's plenty of light reflected anyway.

Here's some more reality of what you're up against at night. So the upshot is to simply think safety first about YOUR safety.. That also takes care of the other bloke normally.

-Maritime nsw and as far as i know qld too...its not acutally law they need to light every pole, marker or even a bridge pylon. Thats telling you something..its up to YOU to see it with enough warning DESPITE their rules which make it harder to see them. Go figure but thats the way it is...dont trust ANY marker light is even working. The poor bastard that rammed a 6m haines into a hawkesbury road bridge pylon yrs ago unforunately isnt here to tell us what might have helped, but u can guess right ?
-Accidents happen but heres some more reality...hpw can a 25m fast river cat run smack into a stationary 40 footer under the sydney harbour bridge ?..some of the busiest and well lit water around. SPEED thats how...and probably lack of lighting too. If ferry drivers are half as bad as train drivers half could be stoned for all we know. DONT TRUST ANYONE CAN SEE YOU. What we get from horrible accidents is half arse new rules...u better wear a lifejacket in case, and slap a speed limit IN THAT SPOT ONLY. Nothing about preventing it in the first place or stopping it elsewhere.
- Multimillion dollar racing maxi hits well known rocks despite $100K+ of gps/radar/evrything PLUS a navigator...dont trust tech only.
- What would you make of this ?...."less than 7m no light", very next sentence "less than 12m all round night light/stern etc....from maritime nsw's own handbook. No bloody wonder most still dont even realise they must run at least one all round white light when underway. Confusing garbage so u know what to expect from their own guidleines. Bear in mind noone has to redo their licence and most wouldnt have a bloody clue about the rules...they've done safety campaigns but probably got thru to maybe 5 % of boaties i'd guess..most of the rest just dont care anyway and assume what they do is right. Thats who is out there and what you need to allow for.
- They are in the channel u drive along, no light on whatsoever. Almost impossible to see them with your "night vision" only on dark nights. Expect it right in front of you or stick to nights with moon. Or take precautions.
- If u hit anything at rest i guarantee you will be treated as at fault, or the very least assumed a goose. Why take the risk ?
- We used to rely on hearing as well but 4 stks can be almost impossible to hear coming sometimes. So dont begrudge guys shining their torches around or right at you as a warning...you hear a motor getting louder and louder good chance you'll do it too.
- Half the guys thattell you how good their night vision is drive enclosed hardtops with spray/ozone/grime on the windscreen. Noone looks through a clean windscreen and its a huge difference. You want to see gooses ?..back at the ramp at night you'll regularly see a half cabin coming in with one of those dodger type bimini's that go all the way to the windscreen. the only way he's been driving about with his night vision is hunched down peering through a dirty, spray covered old half crazed perspex windscreen. She'll be right mate..mind ya own business. Assume everyone out there is a pig headed idiot and take precautions.
- Driving behind most trailerboats the way things are looks almost identical to someone at rest. Allow for that.
- Moored yachts with a pissy little mast light up the top you may not even see till right on it...looks just like a star sometimes or blends into background shore lights. Often dark hulled too which doesnt help.
- The rules about shining lights forward ware just as much designed to help YOUR night vision not someoene elses...like people pretend in here. Yes you are supposed to make sure any other light doesnt interfere with nav/all round lights but its actually more designed to help your vision coz people are fools. A glance of their safety guideleines as well as the rulebook will tell you this. Easy fixed if you dont let light shine onto the deck/bow rail in front of you. Nobody wants to paint the top of their bowrail black to stop that reflection either..they'd do it to their bullbar in a flash tho to help their vison.
- A quick glance in your neighbourhood will show you just how many guys have their all round lights either down back where u cant see them...or even right in their face. Then they go out and use their amazing cat like night vision. They still manufacture boats with some absolutely stupid white light placement, and people assume thats where it should be and never fix it nor get legal.
- Good chance the bloke flashing a spottie around is actually the cops. They're way too smart to run the gauntlet without one at the ready and using it often..despite the rules. Need to be placed way out the front bowrail to get the benefit...most guys claiming they are useless probably flash them from behind the windscreen or have cheap crappy ones. We dont put car headlights shining out from inside the car through a windscreen over a white bonnet do we ? You wouldnt expect to see much would you ?
- Try to stay in main channels whenever possible but its still no guarantee that some goose trying to help his night vision has turned everything off.
- Even in built up areas with lots of light boats nav lights go invisible against the background.
- If you see a dinghy tied up next to a moored boat in darkness, yepp thats the bloke who probably stole your best mates trailer last week. We should be allowed to gaff the flogs. yeah ok maybe check first.
-

[ashh]

like it or lump it, I run these babies when moving around at night on the water.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j224/ashgilliver/s1.jpg

Spreader beam angled to light up the bank and spot beam looks out for crabpots, debri and the d!ckheads in unlit tinnys...
Ill dip the beams when I've spotted you, but if you lose your nightvision for a few seconds its better than losing your life and besides its better that you see me coming rather than neither of us seeing each other untill its too late!

[Angla]

rule 20 part b application, learn your col regs angla or should you now be known as capt pugwash;D
do you seriously think that your examples in the above text havent been encounterd by anyone else?
or maybe you havnt hit anything or caused somone else to hit anything is because you only head out once or twice a month:-?
And what is your answer to the other 3 questions

What is with the captain pugwash name calling

I do think that some of the examples in the previous text have been experienced by others but it was more in reference to your experiences that may cause you to be looking at the issue of (dark) night navigation through tinted lenses. I don't believe the original poster was talking about fishing in and around ferry terminals where you might be waiting with a 24 metre Fast Cat Ferry, laying crab pots.

My repetition to fishing is also not relevant in this discussion only to say that I have had experiences that I would have preferred to have not happened but have found the searchlight to be invaluable in the outcome.

Cheers
Chris

[Defore]

Hi all,
Here it is the as far as the rules go; that any other lights used onboard should not interfere with the visibility of your vessels navigation lights.

Collision Regulations

Part C - Lights & Shapes
Rule 20 Application
a) Rules in this application shall be complied with in all weathers
b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken from the lights specified in these rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character or interfere with the keeping of a proper lookout.


A good spottie would probably be visible for 5 miles and therefore hide your nav lights - if facing directly ahead and used constantly.

Hope that helps.

The rule states that the lights used should not be mistaken for the required lighting and a spotlight would not be mistaken.
It also states that side lights be visible for 1 mile, a spotlight unless directly on you will not stop you from seeing the navigation lights at 1 mile.
The navigation lights are required so other boats know which way the boat is heading, I have never been confused as to which way a boat is heading if they have a spotlight on the front.
I just give them a wide berth until they have past and my night vision returns.
I don't know of any boat that has ever been booked for using a spotlight and I watched one pass the water police, mind you the water police also had theirs on as they checked other boats.

[fishfeeder]

Fishhunter I think you need a NEW Chart LOL... must have been a lot of crap on your windscreen not to see something 3m high in front of you !!!

I guess its the situation your in that makes the difference between running a spotlight or not. Out on the ocean 20km from land there is very little point in running a spot light, but being in a place where navigation relies on seeing the next markers reflector (unlit marker eg. jumpinpin) then running with a spot light, makes sense as you line up each marker.

As for night vision we used to chase pigs out west and we would turn all light off before getting to a know area that had pigs and drive along without any problems in seeing, We could see on a clear night if there were pigs 300-400 yards away on wheat stubble further if a mob was moving, on a full noon you could even shoot with no spotlight on at all. Turn the spotlight on and your vision was restricted to the beam of the spotlight and not the whole area around you. Same problem happends on the water with a spotlight your vision is re-stricked to the lights beam and you loose the rest of your vision.

Cheers
Brett

[stue2]

Where I fish if you come in after dark without a spotlight, a good one, you are an idiot. There are so many craypot floats and long floating ropes it is simply too dangeous to travel without dam good lighting and thats anything upto 50km out to sea.

And there are too many that fish with lights off only to flick them on if they hear something

A bit of common sense says not to shine on others.

I use to rely on night vison untill we nearly hit a ship in some very poor conditions one night. His lights were no good to us as they blended in well with the skyline of the city we were heading to. The only reason we stopped was because there were no lights visible once we were too close. Turned just in the nick of time

i'm not a cat, an owl or a fox so Bugger the night vision, not reliable.

Cheers, Stu

[FishHunter]

Fishhunter I think you need a NEW Chart LOL... must have been a lot of crap on your windscreen not to see something 3m high in front of you !!!

I guess its the situation your in that makes the difference between running a spotlight or not. Out on the ocean 20km from land there is very little point in running a spot light, but being in a place where navigation relies on seeing the next markers reflector (unlit marker eg. jumpinpin) then running with a spot light, makes sense as you line up each marker.

As for night vision we used to chase pigs out west and we would turn all light off before getting to a know area that had pigs and drive along without any problems in seeing, We could see on a clear night if there were pigs 300-400 yards away on wheat stubble further if a mob was moving, on a full noon you could even shoot with no spotlight on at all. Turn the spotlight on and your vision was restricted to the beam of the spotlight and not the whole area around you. Same problem happends on the water with a spotlight your vision is re-stricked to the lights beam and you loose the rest of your vision.

Cheers
Brett

It is a new chart and I have the spotties mounted on my boat for exactly those situations. As for the rest of you with super human night vision at no point did I say I cruise around with my spotties on permanently, I dont believe Deckie said that either.
You want to prove what wonderful eyesight you have and not use any lights that's your prerogative, me I will use all the light I can to avoid a bad situation.

[deckie]

Yeah i dont have any sort of spot/searchlight going all the time either, just when i think i need it like fishhunter. Get around using night vison like most people. Such a great time to be on the water...take out much of the great unknown and risk u feel and its so addictive. Plus the fishing aint half bad either.

We've got so many old guys in my area who've been fishing jew etc onight for 40-50 yrs. They're a real risk coz u cant teach old dogs new tricks and they'll just tell u to Foff anyway if u said to get lights..in a nice way of course. Dangerous but nothing we can do...so better to just be careful and instead of being just as pig headed better to look after them.

This new breed of yak man tho...he's a shocker and they just have no light at all and no profile in the moonlight.

Hey fishhunter...rig looks cool. Luv that model.

[Richo1]

I don't believe there is anyone on this thread that would not use a spottie when and as required.
New posters please take your time to read each post carefully before you quote and have your say. Most of this heat started when the use of driving lights not searchlights came into the discussion.
Ashh there is no way your Nav lights would be visible with those babies shinning into the night - just please turn them off if there are other boats underway around. Reckon you would see an unlit kayak about a 2miles away :)

Deckie, the incident with the Sydney Ferry Cat and the cruiser was a very sad one. I have read the report findings and in it include the CCTV photographs of both vessels before and after the crash. It was found that the cruiser had entered a dark spot not lit buy any surrounding light and barely visible on the CCTV when the incident occured.
The skipper of the Ferry was very experienced with well over 10years spent on Sydney Harbour, he was drug tested and found negative. He may have made some errors of judgement that night which he now has to live with for the rest of his life. The cruiser had no lights, the licenced skipper was not at the helm as it was being steered by an inexperienced, unqualified helmsman.

Please listen to the experience of the professional Skippers that have posted, they spend 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year on the water. All the frustrations at night that we have all talked about on this thread, they put up with every night spent on the water. You run your boat as you see fit, but at least take into consideration what they have said. It takes years of seatime plus college to get a commercial qualification - and one day to get a Recreational Ship Masters Licence(unlimited size)

There are no rules as to the use of a searchlight, the rules only come into it when the searchlight interes with safe navigation at night, it is up to the skipper to decide when ensuring the safety of his or her vessel. This is my last post on this thread.

Kind regards and safe boating to all,
Richo

[seren-y-mor]

And what is your answer to the other 3 questions

What is with the captain pugwash name calling

I do think that some of the examples in the previous text have been experienced by others but it was more in reference to your experiences that may cause you to be looking at the issue of (dark) night navigation through tinted lenses. I don't believe the original poster was talking about fishing in and around ferry terminals where you might be waiting with a 24 metre Fast Cat Ferry, laying crab pots.

My repetition to fishing is also not relevant in this discussion only to say that I have had experiences that I would have preferred to have not happened but have found the searchlight to be invaluable in the outcome.

Cheers
Chris

Chris, the name calling was a bit of light harted fun thats all as its getting a bit serious in here.;D
and yes i have worked around crab pots, actually I used to skipper an offshore crab boat for about 12 years working about 800 traps in fleets of 50 to 80, we used to fill the vivia tanks on board with crab first then use store cages to keep the remainder alive untill we finished our trip and meet the truck, we used spotlights and floodlights to find our gear but once we were hauling we didnt need them we only used the worklights then, we never used to use them for steaming thats what a radar is for.
and to answer another of your questions of course i have been out in 25 knots of wind, actually quite a bit more I have spent my whole working life at sea, maybe not in your area but i can tell you that when you dont see land for a week or 2 you cant just pop back in when the wind picks up, but i dont like blowing my own horn as there are a lot of more experianced guys on this site than me, just listen to what they have to say thats all we are out there every day, well nearly.
now I get to come home to my wife after every shift and i dont smell of fish....lol
regards Jason

[deckie]

So thats it is it ?
We've had input from small boaties and experienced commercial skippers but we all know what both want/need clashes. I guess commercial operators at night can also have night equipment that is as susceptible to glare as our own eyes.
We've seen the extreme, a guy sporting 4WD driving lights that'll screw all of us up and probably not help himself much in the process.
We'd like to preserve our night vision but at the same time not run over anything or anyone. So many tossers without lights out there we start to protect ourselves which is fair enough.
We want to let other's know we're there but dont want to screw up their night vision either.

Is there a compromise solution short of everyone having thermal imaging costing about the same as a second hand mercedes ?
As far as i know the relevant gov't dep'ts still just put the onus on us to figure out whats best...offer no advice, no real laws to stop anything being abused, not even a nightime speed limit that could save a few lives.

My problem is everything is based on an area thats almost totally and absolutely unlit, dark as hades. On overcast nights with little moon i need/want a security blankie.

I've got some questions then...coz its important. Maybe ex military, shooters or security guys might have some advice for all of us.

Would Infra Red really be of any genuine use ? On trailerboats could we mount an IR light/camera hooked up to our plotter or a simple 7" 12v screen on the dash ?
Has anyone tried a good set of IR/night vision binoculars ? Like those Bushnell ones. Supposed to have pretty strong light source and might supply just enough warning of anything in/on the surface 50m out. My guess is tho they wouldnt be much help unless there was already decent light around, and probably still the same pain in the arse factor. Dunno never tried them.
Could we adapt the Infra Red security type light/camera system for use on trailerboats ? Cant be expensive.
Can we put an IR filter over a spottie to cut off everything except IR and look at a small screen ?

About the only thing i can say that improves my night vision, and might be worth you at least trying, is a decent set of binoculars. No idea why but it does help a bit on many nights, but an absolute pain in the arse.

Havent tried a red filter on a spottie... worth trying ? May be it chops the glare factor for others as well ?

Instead of people just having the shits about what others do out there...is there any middle ground ?

[mustang5]

So long as nav lights, anchor lights, channel markers and major buoys are lit, in a perfect world spotties and driving lights are useless!!

There is always the one channel marker though that will fail to be lit!! That is why its good to head out at night when you know the area!!!

(This is from a trailer boat perspective.)

[Back In Black]

Deckie,
Had a good look at the FLIR cameras at the S.Cove Boat Show & it is the next item on my shopping list. Looked at the binoculars but they had a very limited field of vision. Not cheap, but what price do you put on your boat, your life & the lives of others?
Tony

[scottar]

As good a time as any to revisit this thread. Thankfully all ok. Could have been a lot worse.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/three-hurt-after-boat-hits-beacon-in-qld/7499fba1-26f5-40f1-9c94-7d90cf7cf8b9

[gazza2006au]

Wowzers that is crazy i know in Sydney we often have unlit beacons in Botany Bay but u can often just see them from the Port's lights shining across the water

If that marker was not lit who as at fault as i dont think there is a speed limit day or night maritimr just advise to slow down

[scottar]

Skipper's at fault regardless Gazza.

[gazza2006au]

Bugger i read the report one bloke the skipper unconcious lucky he wasnt killed

[Noelm]

Kind of looks like a solar powered light on the top, that's not exactly a small object to not see or be marked on a chart, but regardless, good everyone seems to be OK.

[ericcs]

On the news last night, it was suggested that the skipper may have been navigating by GPS, not visually, as it was a full moon and the water was glassed out, making it quite easy to see across the water. If it's the beacon i'm thinking it is (Huyber's Light, Green Island), it is a very prominent marker in a very busy boating channel!
685 Cruisecraft , so a lot of weight behind it to come to a sudden stop!

[chris69]

Yep no insurance claim for that boat , I bet he was following his track back from were they left from ,or hit the home button and it pointed the way home strait into the beacon it will be something stupid like that.

[scottar]

There is a ridiculous amount of lighting back scatter coming through that area towards Manly. Can be very difficult to see a light. We have nearly cleaned up yachts in that area that were only displaying lights at the masthead.

[ericcs]

There is a ridiculous amount of lighting back scatter coming through that area towards Manly. Can be very difficult to see a light. We have nearly cleaned up yachts in that area that were only displaying lights at the masthead.
True, you would be mad not to be keeping a good lookout, with all the boats that normally fish the fringe reefs close by!

[Chimo]

Be a good test of the insurance policy, hopefully they will cover it.
Equates to some equally interesting bungles on land.

[ericcs]

Interestingly, the 3 men stayed on board the boat and it remained upright until they were eventually rescued, then it flipped over!

[CT]

Why would you think insurance wouldn't cover it? It covers stupidity every day of the week. If he's pissed then he's on his own but otherwise he's just another customer thats made a mistake resulting in a major accident.

[Chimo]

Agreed...............

[inveratta]

needed a bigger fender out!

[chris69]

There is a ridiculous amount of lighting back scatter coming through that area towards Manly. Can be very difficult to see a light. We have nearly cleaned up yachts in that area that were only displaying lights at the masthead.

Yes I know the area well but you don't drive down the highway with no lights but boats travel at night with no lights looking forward every now and again ,everyone gets a speed boat licence with no mention on how to travel at night, you have to have a spotter towing a skier, everyone onboard should be alert and looking out that's why navigational beacons have a system of flashing lights to identify the beacon in amongst the light clutter, you can't go out at night with a I know boats attitude that's why they hit the beacon.

[scottar]

Yes I know the area well but you don't drive down the highway with no lights but boats travel at night with no lights looking forward every now and again ,everyone gets a speed boat licence with no mention on how to travel at night, you have to have a spotter towing a skier, everyone onboard should be alert and looking out that's why navigational beacons have a system of flashing lights to identify the beacon in amongst the light clutter, you can't go out at night with a I know boats attitude that's why they hit the beacon.

Huh. Unless you were on board to be frank, you have no idea as to why he hit the beacon. As a maritime professional I have spent more than enough hours on a bridge at night - none of which involved "headlights" unless at close quarters. Yes, beacons have a flashing pattern for identification - doesn't help if you can't see it for whatever reason. At this stage we can't even confirm that the lighting was functional.

[scottar]

The plot thickens. Possible the light was non functional - reports getting around it was and it wasn't. It may have not been reported that there was an issue - who knows. As of now though, it's definitely not working.

https://www.facebook.com/VMRBrisbane/photos/a.10151882153961613/10157447034286613/?type=3&theater

[stevej]

your required to have anavigational map and know the area
hit it light out or on its on you

with maritime stuff its always on the skipper

[scottar]

your required to have anavigational map and know the area
hit it light out or on its on you

with maritime stuff its always on the skipper


There is no doubt that ultimately the fault lays at the feet of the skipper but it may shed some light (no pun intended) on a possible contributing factor - not an excuse - just a contributing factor. It's entirely possible he was looking at his GPS chartplotter and saying "but it says there's a beacon here somewhere but I can't see the light".

[ericcs]

https://www.facebook.com/9NewsQueensland/videos/888341048184741/

[scottar]

119710Just happened this evening inside the Manly boat harbour entrance. NFI as to how (Could have a red hot guess though). Big hit apparently

119709

This keeps up they will ban night time boating.

[chris69]

Well seems to be a southern bay thing then 2 in a week 🤔 driving at night with undew care and attention the harbour master would say.

[ericcs]

119710Just happened this evening inside the Manly boat harbour entrance. NFI as to how (Could have a red hot guess though). Big hit apparently

119709

This keeps up they will ban night time boating.

pushed it a fair way up considering if he was doing the 6 knot speed limit!

[scottar]

6 NOTS. Reports from some live aboards said the noise was pretty horrible. Police and ambulance in attendance and apparently a fuel spill (unconfirmed).

[gazza2006au]

Imo there should be some sort of low light level speed limits but sadly we rely on peoples sensibility its tragic that most of us boaters move around at night in a good manner but the wreckless end up like this as casulties as they say some need to experience it to learn from it such silly people anyone on board could have been killed if the boat sank

[scottar]

Just read a report that says second incident w as the result of the skipper having a suspected heart attack. Was doing 6 knots but suddenly accelerated and went straight up the wall. No mention of fuel spill.

[ericcs]

Just read a report that says second incident w as the result of the skipper having a suspected heart attack. Was doing 6 knots but suddenly accelerated and went straight up the wall. No mention of fuel spill.

Also heard he was an 80 y/o, who had had a medical condition, fortunately his 2 grand children were OK!

[disorderly]

Also heard he was an 80 y/o, who had had a medical condition, fortunately his 2 grand children were OK!

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often....my uncle had a fatal heart attack in the seat of his car...….fortunately it happened while pulled up at the petrol bowser..

[shortthenlong]

119712

119713

Stand on your head or turn your screen over to view appropriate way up

Taken at about 9.45 this morning so close to low water. Looks like it should come off at high tide ok. Doesn't look like it was going too fast

Matt

[gford001]

119712

119713

Stand on your head or turn your screen over to view appropriate way up

Taken at about 9.45 this morning so close to low water. Looks like it should come off at high tide ok. Doesn't look like it was going too fast

MattDamn, not only high and dry, but upside down. Dudes done a really good job of it.

Sent from my [device_name] using Ausfish mobile app

[chris69]

Everything comes in 3s ,it may be time for these boat licence instructors to do boating at night time courses and start doing sunup to sunset licences only, that should cut down on things happening.

[scottar]

Everything comes in 3s ,it may be time for these boat licence instructors to do boating at night time courses and start doing sunup to sunset licences only, that should cut down on things happening.

Won't help one bit. We make learner drivers do 100 plus hours behind the wheel before sitting a somewhat more comprehensive test than that required for a boat license and yet P platers are still over represented in crash statistics. Courses and licenses do next to stuff all. Experience is the best teacher. Some people simply have to make their own F-ups before they start paying attention. As for the medical emergency - that falls under shit happens - no one's fault as such.

[ericcs]

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often....my uncle had a fatal heart attack in the seat of his car...….fortunately it happened while pulled up at the petrol bowser..

I agree, had a mate die from a heart attack behind the wheel also, fortunately waiting at a roundabout, and an older friend out in his boat, was found bobbing around on his own!

[Dirtyfuzz]

Won't help one bit. We make learner drivers do 100 plus hours behind the wheel before sitting a somewhat more comprehensive test than that required for a boat license and yet P platers are still over represented in crash statistics. Courses and licenses do next to stuff all. Experience is the best teacher. Some people simply have to make their own F-ups before they start paying attention. As for the medical emergency - that falls under shit happens - no one's fault as such.

Comes down to basic rules! “Drive to the conditions”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk