25-30hp 4 strokes

[davo]

I've just bought a new Clark Magnum 396 and am contemplating on the engine.

The contenders are Tohatsu/Mercury 30HP, Yamaha 25HP, Suzuki 25HP. Iam partial to the Suzuki but have not seen many. Which one is the big question?

[White Pointer]

G'day,

Yamaha or Suzuki - because they work out of the box and factory will back their product.

Regards,

White Pointer

[Jarrah Jack]

G'day,

Yamaha or Suzuki - because they work out of the box and factory will back their product.

Regards,

White Pointer

That doesn't say much for Tohatsu/Merc Pointer, pity because they are a good motor. You must know something about them?

[Noelm]

and exactly WHY would a Mercury not work "out of the box"? biggest load a crap I have ever heard, buy any of them, they are all good.

[nigelr]

and exactly WHY would a Mercury not work "out of the box"? biggest load a crap I have ever heard, buy any of them, they are all good.

;D

Personally I'd go the Tojo/Merc if the extra weight of the 30 wasn't an issue for that hull size?
But then my local is a Tojo dealer and his service is excellent.
IMO, never underestimate this aspect of the purchase!
Ownership will be so much more positive if you can believe the dealer/service agent is genuinely looking after your interests post-sale.
Cheers.

[PADDLES]

Any of them would be pretty good, just buy from the dealer you trust the most.

After just recently buying a Tohatsu 2S, something I did hear (I can't confirm it for sure so could be an old wives tale) is that Tohatsu are distributed here in Australia by a fairly small business and as a result their approval of warranty claims may not happen quite as easily/quickly as the warranty from Mercury Marine (huge business). So if faced with a Tohatsu or a Mercury choice, and the price and service are all good and equal, maybe buy the Mercury badged one.

[Noelm]

can't really speak for Aus wide, but there is a few Tohatsu's in my area and no one is complaining about service/warranty issues, but as mentioned, if it is deal breaker to you, go for the Merc then (or any of the others) personally I would look for a Merc with the gear shift on the throttle seup, my old motor had that and I reckon it was fantastic. having said that I would also buy any of the others, with a Yamaha being last on the shopping list (for me)

[Malcolm W]

Just looking at the specs alone the Merc/ tohatsu has 3 cylinders and a few more cubes compared to the other 2 with 2 cylinders. I think that should produce a bit more torque than the 2 cylinders. The extra 5 hp may be handy as well.

The suzuki and Merc/Tohatsu are approx 10kg lighter than the Yamaha also (depending on models). That may or may not mean much to your boat.

As the comments above, you wont go wrong with any of them and it could get down to the best deal.

[robothefisho]

Well i've driven the yamaha 25, I couldn't believe how weak it was compared to the 25 2 stroke. why you would buy that motor i have no idea. If the choice ranges from 2 cyl models and 3 cyl models go 3 every time.

And sure it was quite at idle, but it was noisey as all hell flat out with and annoying whine.

[Chris1984]

Honda!!!!!! :d

[oldboot]

I seem to remember a while ago there was some discussion about the difference in the terms of waranty between merc and tohatsu.

And Oh Yes...that local dealer is a big issue.

There are lots of hondas up arround Townsville because the local dealer has a good rep but ya don't see to may on the south side of Brisbane...hmmm

Arround here Yammy seem to be pretty well suported.

Y need to ask arround and chat to the dealers.

cheers

[Noelm]

Honda!!!!!! :d
that may be your motor of choice, but if you read the first post, Honda is not in the mix AT ALL.

[Chris1984]

that may be your motor of choice, but if you read the first post, Honda is not in the mix AT ALL.

What's your point?
i was just throwing the idea around mate. Just because it was not on the list doesn't mean it's not worthy of consideration when buying a new engine.

[Noelm]

well... the point is (I guess) he has narrow his choices down to these defined models, for whatever reason, and the Honda is not there, why? too heavy? too expensive? no dealer close by? doesn't like them? crap motor?

[Chris1984]

well... the point is (I guess) he has narrow his choices down to these defined models, for whatever reason, and the Honda is not there, why? too heavy? too expensive? no dealer close by? doesn't like them? crap motor?

Seems to me that your the one with a bad opinon on the hondas mate?? like i said i was just throwing it out there for consideration and in my opinion there is no way i would touch a merc or tohatsu 4 stroke. Suzuki, yamaha and honda would be the only ones in my list but again that's only my opinion.

[joey_1987]

Seems like there is someone with a grudge against Merc/Tohatsu here. A buyer should buy the one which best suits there needs in terms of dealer location/quality of dealer, price, weight, and for this motor class some have EFI whereas some do not. 30hp Merc/Tohy has been around the longest of all the 30hp EFI's but these days most motors are good. No reason to discount any one brand just simply 'because'. Just choose the one you like, that fits the bill and will put a smile on your face.
Cheers.

[PADDLES]

i've gotta disagree with you chris, davo quite clearly listed his short list at the start of the thread and so that's what he's working with. he's obviously not included honda for some reason, and that is his business not ours.

as for noel's comment. in no way would i have assumed from what he has written that he thinks that the honda is a krap motor. he's just stating the bleeding obvious, which is - davo has not listed it for some reason. so what gives? "wouldn't touch a merc or a tohatsu 4 stroke" seems like a purely subjective comment here, ie. do you have a sound engineering basis for this comment or did a bloke at the pub tell you they were krap?

i reckon joey has summed it up perfectly, it's pretty rare to find a bad motor from an established manufacturer these days.

[Chris1984]

fair enough from both the above comments, i have never had a merc or tohatsu outboard BUT i have had honda, suzuki and yamaha and have done over 700 trouble free hours out of a honda bf40 with superb fuel economy and reliabilty. Maybe i read Noels comments wrong but if someone in the outboard buying game was after and engine i WILL definatly put forward a honda in the argument as they are a superb engine with a great warranty backup with decades of technology behind them. The only reason i wont buy a tohatsu or merc is that i know of people that have had alot of trouble with the 2 stroke versions in the past and the resale value on both of these engines are very poor. Call me bias but as most people i stick to what i know. My brother works at origin boats as a boat builder and he swears by yamaha as that's what he knows but in 3 months when they start building my 4.6 platey it will be the only origin going out the door so far with a honda.... I'ts all personal choice and it's hard not to write on a thread like this without your (sometimes) bias opinions from your own personal experiences (everyones opinions are different) Honda produces all of its 4-stroke outboard engines at its Hosoe Plant in Shizuoka Prefecture, Japan, and supplies them to North America and Europe, the two main markets, as well as to other markets around the world. Ever since the introduction of the GB30 in 1964 (first model), Honda has pioneered the development and production of 4-stroke outboard engines with a low impact on the environment based on the philosophy of there founder that “Watercraft should not pollute the waters they ply.” There lineup consists of 19 models, from the 2 horsepower BF2 to the 225 horsepower BF225. They all incorporate a wide variety of technologies based on the concepts of being “environmentally and people friendly, economical and high-quality outboard engines.”
Exhaust gas emission regulations for outboard engines are being strengthened in order to protect the global environment. Honda was one of the first companies to incorporate advanced technology in outboard engines, based on technology it developed for automobiles and motorcycles, such as the PGM-FI (Programmed Fuel Injection) system featuring advanced combustion control, VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Life Electronic Control), lean burn control (high air-fuel combustion ratio) and Honda’s unique BLAST (Boosted Low Speed Torque) outboard engine technology. Honda outboard engines have achieved an unparalleled level of customer satisfaction around the globe by providing high output and outstanding fuel efficiency. All Honda outboard engine models clear the most stringent exhaust gas emissions regulations, including the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), CARB (California Air Resources Board) and EU RCD (European Union Recreational Craft Directive).

[PADDLES]

you'll get no argument from me there chris, honda have made superb small engines for years both 2 and 4 stroke and arguably over the years have been at the forefront of four stroke engine technology (i'm not just talking outboards here either). but the others are not that far behind and in many cases are now well and truly equal. i think their finest hour was introducing variable valve timing and lift into production cars, we've got toyota's version of this in wifey's little shopping trolley and unless you've driven a car with this technology you just won't understand.

[White Pointer]

I've just bought a new Clark Magnum 396 and am contemplating on the engine.

The contenders are Tohatsu/Mercury 30HP, Yamaha 25HP, Suzuki 25HP. Iam partial to the Suzuki but have not seen many. Which one is the big question?

G'day,

It was looking like a dead post after 24-hours without a reply so I chucked a wobbly. The response has been excellent. I hope you got the information you wanted.

You may have got too much information.

There are not too many duds among the big name 4-stokes these days. They are all pretty good.

So I suggest that armed with this you shop with your head and not with your heart. You should buy the cheapest thing you can own for the next five years. That means adding up the purchase price plus the cost of servicing, at least once a year for the next five years, then you will know.

Regards,

White Pointer

[Noelm]

Seems to me that your the one with a bad opinon on the hondas mate?? like i said i was just throwing it out there for consideration and in my opinion there is no way i would touch a merc or tohatsu 4 stroke. Suzuki, yamaha and honda would be the only ones in my list but again that's only my opinion.
Nope, Honda make a great motor, I would have one, but in this instance, the original poster does not, for whatever reason (known only to him) I never implied Honda are crap.

[Jarrah Jack]

G'day,

It was looking like a dead post after 24-hours without a reply so I chucked a wobbly. The response has been excellent. I hope you got the information you wanted.


Regards,

White Pointer

With a deep thinking man like yourself WP I'm inclined to think that where there is smoke there may be a fire there as well.

If you wanted to get some response happening all you had to do was mention etec.;D

[davo]

I didn't realise how much immotion is out there. I chose the list because of dealers I dealt with and like. The three cylinder/carby/injections are great motors but this is on a second boat. I have a Fisher with a 4 stroke Yammy on the back and was looking at the simplier style motors for maintenance of my second boat. I am concerned about how well the 4 strokes tilt manually and weather trim and tilt is necessary. The tinnie and tackle show will be the final choice but the more debate the better.

[joey_1987]

When you say a simple motor I interpret that, in outboard terms as a carby 2 stroke with hardly anything to go wrong on it. 4 strokes in the 30hp power range have valves, camshafts, timing belts/chains, oil pumps, oil sumps, etc etc. There's nothing to say an EFI engine will be any more or less reliable than a carby engine, the EFI ECM may decide to die, but they rarely do, other things like to play up first.
From the point of view of manually tilting/starting, I will weigh in here, I'm fairly young so still able to do a reasonable amount of lifting, I have a 30hp MercHatsu 2s on my boat, tiller steer, manual everything. It has a listed weight of 52kg, I wouldn't want to be manually lifting much more than this and the motors you're talking about are 70-80kg. Can I ask why you've ruled out carby 2 strokes from your decision?
Cheers.

[PADDLES]

a good question there for davo, joey.

we've just recently set up a 12 foot tinny as our second boat and i went straight to a tohatsu carby 2s to keep it simple/stupid/light/bulletproof.

[davo]

Firstly. After having a 4 stroke I hate smoke. Secondly adjusting valves, changing water pumps etc... fine but I can't be bothered setting up multiply carbies. Pull start and lift not a problem, I work on the tools everyday and am physically fine. Actually if the Suzuki looks and handles like it reads it looks like it.

[Chris1984]

When you say a simple motor I interpret that, in outboard terms as a carby 2 stroke with hardly anything to go wrong on it. 4 strokes in the 30hp power range have valves, camshafts, timing belts/chains, oil pumps, oil sumps, etc etc. There's nothing to say an EFI engine will be any more or less reliable than a carby engine, the EFI ECM may decide to die, but they rarely do, other things like to play up first.
From the point of view of manually tilting/starting, I will weigh in here, I'm fairly young so still able to do a reasonable amount of lifting, I have a 30hp MercHatsu 2s on my boat, tiller steer, manual everything. It has a listed weight of 52kg, I wouldn't want to be manually lifting much more than this and the motors you're talking about are 70-80kg. Can I ask why you've ruled out carby 2 strokes from your decision?
Cheers.
if you have operated a 4 stoke engine in the 25 to 60 hp range mate you wouldn't ask the question of "why not carby 2 stroke?" they are superior in every way.

[joey_1987]

I am aware of the pros/cons of 2s vs 4s in this power range. I didn't ask the question of considering a 2s because I think that is the right way to go, if I could have my pick of 30hp engines it would be an EFI 4s because of noise. That said, my 30hp 2s is streaks ahead in terms of initial outlay/running costs so far for me, I only posed the question to make sure all bases are covered. No need to jump the gun.
Davo if you get a chance to, try manually tilting the engine you will be getting to make sure you're alright with it.
Cheers and I hope you find the motor which best suits your needs.

[Chris1984]

in that size engine i thought running costs would be the same if not better with a 4 stroke, use less fuel, no oil (except for servicing) initial outlay would be more but in terms of usability there is no comparison as you know. Better for the environment, no smoke, no fouling plugs, less noise, they idle all day, easier to start. If your using it alot then power trim/tilt with electric start would be the way to go aswell. And when one day when you want to sell the package or just the motor they have great resale value.

[Scott Ashe]

Hi,

I have a 30 Yamaha 4 stroke 2009, all electric, pushing a 425 Allycraft "Reelmate", and I had my yearly service done yesterday and it was worth $400

I am very happy with my motor too.

Cheers
Scott