Yamaha F70A

[NAGG]

Hi All

I'm considering repowering my 480 hornet - going from a F60C to the new light weight F70A ..... I went through it with a dealer yesterday & it looks a good option with only a slight increase in weight (6kgs) for the gain of a fraction under 17% power (a gain of approx 400rpm / 10kmph - spinning a 15" prop)

So does anyone have one of these new F70As - and what is your opinion of them?
Who are the best Yamaha dealers in Brisbane - price & service.

Finally as a guess what would a 4 1/2 year old F60C be worth (400hrs) - serviced yesterday - everything sweet (compression etc) ........ Except for an initial hiccup - the motor has been faultless in that time - hence another Yammi 4 me

Looking forward to some Ausfish advice and comments

Chris

[Lovey80]

Nagg,

can I ask why are you repowering? Do you need more guts?

Seems like a hell of a lot of money for what will probably be very little gain. Same block and all. If the current engine pushes your boat fine it should do you for many years to come.

[NAGG]

Nagg,

can I ask why are you repowering? Do you need more guts?

Seems like a hell of a lot of money for what will probably be very little gain. Same block and all. If the current engine pushes your boat fine it should do you for many years to come.

Hole shot can be improved - when fishing 3 or taking a lot of gear ( a couple of times couldn't get the boat to plane) ..... it takes a bit of time to get on the plane with 3 on board. - Yes when I'm on my own .. all is fine with the 60.
As I've decided to hang onto the hornet - for quite a few more years, I think repowering is a good option for reliability (doing big trips) - plus the improvement in performance of my hull - I've had a ride in my mates 475 Hornet running a 70 yammi 2 banger ..... quite a difference in top end speed & cruising RPMs. Some places I fish involve some quite long runs - 25-30km

Finally - I think the time is right as far as the motors age & possible trade in value.

Chris

[Mark-P]

Hole shot can be improved - when fishing 3 or taking a lot of gear ( a couple of times couldn't get the boat to plane) ..... it takes a bit of time to get on the plane with 3 on board. - Yes when I'm on my own .. all is fine with the 60.
As I've decided to hang onto the hornet - for quite a few more years, I think repowering is a good option for reliability (doing big trips) - plus the improvement in performance of my hull - I've had a ride in my mates 475 Hornet running a 70 yammi 2 banger ..... quite a difference in top end speed & cruising RPMs. Some places I fish involve some quite long runs - 25-30km
Finally - I think the time is right as far as the motors age & possible trade in value.

Chris. Here's a thought chris, put the dreaded etec on it & feel the love from everyone else !;)

[maimai]

Nagg, why not just get another prop for when you fish 3 up;), new motor sounds good thou8-)

[maimai]

Sorry just reread your post, 60hp on a 4.8........yep get rid of it
your boat is rated to 80hp,and 181kg transom weight why not go for a Yami 80hp:D

[NAGG]

Sorry just reread your post, 60hp on a 4.8........yep get rid of it
your boat is rated to 80hp,and 181kg transom weight why not go for a Yami 80hp:D

The numbers (power to weight) dont stack up with the old 80hp - A 33% increase in power but a 60% increase in the weight of the motor - its a hell of a lot of weight on the back (68kgs extra)
the 70 gives me a 17% increase in power but only 6kg more weight.

As for repropping - I have gone from 13" down to 12 ( a good improvement) & I also have an 11 ..... which I have not tried yet.

Chris

[NAGG]

. Here's a thought chris, put the dreaded etec on it & feel the love from everyone else !;)

I was waiting for it ::) - It did pass my mind though - very quickly ;) (theoretically awesome) .... but I'm just not willing to take the risk ........ warranty means nothing when the motor craps itself when your up in the middle of nowhere on holidays

Chris

[oldie]

buy a suzi A Series

[NAGG]

buy a suzi A Series


why ?? :-? - 36kgs heavier

Chris

[Mark-P]

Hey Chris. Whats the diff in price between the two ?? What about a complete package, might get a great deal in this climate ! I myself have never been a big fan of re powering, unless the boats in great shape. Especially if you've racked up alot of hours ! Is it true that the 60 & 70 are the same bore & stroke, with the later getting a tickle up ??

Mark

Ps I meant the change over figure between the two !!!!

[Dan5]

Mate i looked into the new70hp yammie as i already have the 60hp 07".....To upgrade from a new 60 to a 70 i was quoted an extra $3500-$4000,(tiller was $1000 extra)
For 10hp more i didn't see the benefit....My 60 goes well and besides that the extra 10hp comes from revving it harder again,

IMO your "holeshot" will not be any better as the engine is not making anymore HP at the lower end than the 60 propped correctly.

Your mates 70hp 2 banger is a different kettle of fish,more torque down the bottom end...thats the nature of the beast mate.

Dan

[STUIE63]

Chris you would really want to compare torque curves between the 60 and the 70 . if they are not available then at least the hp curves of the two motors . is there more power right through the rev range or is it just at the top end of the rev range .
if only at the top end then IMO it is not worth it .
Stuie

[Lovey80]

Dan5,

your exactly right, thats where I was going with my questions. The F70A will have more top end but probably close to exactly the same holeshot.

Chris in effect your paying 4k to have a higher top end speed.

[NAGG]

The gear ratio is higher on the 70

Anyhow

That's why I'm looking for opinions - and hopefully find someone with either the same or similar hull with the 70 on it ......... before I make any decision

Chris

[oldie]

why ?? :-? - 36kgs heavier

Chris

better looking motor not so much of a mushroom as the yami

[NAGG]

better looking motor not so much of a mushroom as the yami

I like mushrooms :P

[oldie]

I like mushrooms :P

got nothing against the yami(bar the new cowl look) just like the fuel efficiency of the new Suzi, and yes they weight more in that 70HP class. I own a 70HP Yamaha 2stroke along with the 30HP 3 cyl i reckon best motor they ever made.

good luck with which ever choice you make;D

[Mark-P]

The gear ratio is higher on the 70

Anyhow

That's why I'm looking for opinions - and hopefully find someone with either the same or similar hull with the 70 on it ......... before I make any decision

Chris
Not the same weight i know, but this may help !

http://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/sites/default/files/SeaJay%204.85.pdf


Mark

[scoota]

Hey NAGG
I have a 70A on my Seafarer V-Sea and racked up 80 hours in 5 months.
Two POB loaded up for offshore fishings it gets on the plane well and has the punch with the high thrust to handle bar work.
Had 4 POB for and the kitchen sink for a family trip to Bulwer a couple of weeks back and it did struggle to get on the plane but once there cruised along great.
Economy is getting better and pretty close to 3km per litre and a top speed of 31 knots at 6000rpm.
Last trip to Wide Caloundra was 61.5 miles for 33 litres. Ordinary conditions.
I cruise at 4700 rpm for 23knot and best economy is at 4000rpm for 18 knots.
Good motor for the price compared to 70 Zuke and weight is best in its class.
Brisbane Yamaha was the best deal for me and no complaints with service.

Scoota...

[NAGG]

Hey NAGG
I have a 70A on my Seafarer V-Sea and racked up 80 hours in 5 months.
Two POB loaded up for offshore fishings it gets on the plane well and has the punch with the high thrust to handle bar work.
Had 4 POB for and the kitchen sink for a family trip to Bulwer a couple of weeks back and it did struggle to get on the plane but once there cruised along great.
Economy is getting better and pretty close to 3km per litre and a top speed of 31 knots at 6000rpm.
Last trip to Wide Caloundra was 61.5 miles for 33 litres. Ordinary conditions.
I cruise at 4700 rpm for 23knot and best economy is at 4000rpm for 18 knots.
Good motor for the price compared to 70 Zuke and weight is best in its class.
Brisbane Yamaha was the best deal for me and no complaints with service.

Scoota...

Much appreciared Scoota - the V Sea is a much heavier hull than mine ......... Your economy figures are good to ( mine about 2.7km with 3 on board)

Thanks again

Chris

[NAGG]

got nothing against the yami(bar the new cowl look) just like the fuel efficiency of the new Suzi, and yes they weight more in that 70HP class. I own a 70HP Yamaha 2stroke along with the 30HP 3 cyl i reckon best motor they ever made.

good luck with which ever choice you make;D

Thanks - Out of interest what is the fuel usage ( km / lt)

Chris

[NAGG]

Not the same weight i know, but this may help !

http://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/sites/default/files/SeaJay%204.85.pdf


Mark


Thanks Mark ..... I was shown this yesterday

Chris

[oldie]

Thanks - Out of interest what is the fuel usage ( km / lt)

Chris

liter per km not too sure, spent last sunday motoring from fingel ramp (tweed heads)to cook island (after idling in bar for 30min as could not see if bar was breaking?!) then out to 9 mile trolling then back up the river WOT fished a few spots before heading home, used maybe 18 litres total. reckon i did maybe 22km at least, powers an old 5m Quintrex.

[rodneyk]

Hi Nagg as any one knows thats owned a hornet knows they are horsepower hungry i think scoota ,s info is significant the new engine is 70hp and will be an improvement suzi heavier and dearer but a good engine also as for the other comments there just opinions im currertly looking to upgrade also 50 4st carb/60/70 hp 4st on 455 top ender there is 2 types of outboard owners yammy owners and those who wish they were ;D

[NAGG]

Hi Nagg as any one knows thats owned a hornet knows they are horsepower hungry i think scoota ,s info is significant the new engine is 70hp and will be an improvement suzi heavier and dearer but a good engine also as for the other comments there just opinions im currertly looking to upgrade also 50 4st carb/60/70 hp 4st on 455 top ender there is 2 types of outboard owners yammy owners and those who wish they were ;D


I've read a couple of reviews on the new 70 & they are described as "Torquey"

Anyone that I know that has a new Zuk like them ...... but they are not the ideal motor for a Hornet style boat.... & now with the new F70A on the market - the gap widens (power to weight & price point)

As for Yammi's ..... I've had 2 ( I had a gearbox issue on the current one - brand new) ..... but the service to fix the problem was outstanding - 2 days for a new gearbox) - but other than that both ran like clockwork. On top of that everyone that I know with a Yammi ..... feel the same way - and that makes it very hard to walk away to try another brand that offers no real advantage.

Chris

[black runner]

Hi Nagg,

I have an F60C as well - lovely motor. As well as having higher WOT, the F70 should deliver more torque down low also due to 16 valve head. It will breathe (and therefore bang) better than the 60. So although the block, bore and stroke are the same, the head is definitely a high performance variation to an already top OB.

Not sure whether your F60 is high thrust or not but the gear ratio (2.33:1) on the F70 is lower than the standard (1.85:1) F60 so you may be able to swing a bigger more efficient prop as well.

Cheers

[NAGG]

Hi Nagg,

I have an F60C as well - lovely motor. As well as having higher WOT, the F70 should deliver more torque down low also due to 16 valve head. It will breathe (and therefore bang) better than the 60. So although the block, bore and stroke are the same, the head is definitely a high performance variation to an already top OB.

Not sure whether your F60 is high thrust or not but the gear ratio (2.33:1) on the F70 is lower than the standard (1.85:1) F60 so you may be able to swing a bigger more efficient prop as well.

Cheers

Yeh - they are talking 15 inch prop as opposed to a 13 - so hole shot will be better combined with the higher gear

[matt fraser]

Chris,

I'm guessing your current motor should be worth somewhere between 7 and 9K. There are a few more of them available atm, as people are doing the same as you are thinking, and upgrading to the new F70.

If you are really, really happy with the hornet and plan to keep it another five years or so, then the F70 might be worth the investment. But if you are already thinking about your next boat, then hang onto the 60.

In regards to Props, I've been through many over the past 10 - 12 years, firstly on my F50 and now the F60. I would recommend you get a second prop for your camping trips, or when you've got a bit of weight on.

I run a 11&3/8" x 12 pitch for my general fishing, and pulling kids around on tubes etc. I get a top speed of around 50 - 53 kmph depending on load. I could get more speed, with more pitch, but would be sacrificing hole shot.

My 'barge" prop is a 11&3/4" x 10 pitch, I've had this for many years and only gets put on when I'm planning on taking a big load on board. ie camping trips. Its also handy if you are trying to pull adults on double skis.

I've had the boat fully loaded for a weeks camping and fishing, and it still got on the plane no worries. Top end speed was down to about 40km/h though, and you have to be careful of not overrevving the engine once all the gear is unloaded.

If you want to loan it for a test run let me know.

With Yammy prop prices right down now, only about $130 last time I got one. I don't reckon its worth paying big dollars for stainless. Just have two props to suit different applications, and keep a shifter, pliers and spare split pins in the toolbox. Very quicky and easy to change.

Cheers,

Matt

[NAGG]

Chris,

I'm guessing your current motor should be worth somewhere between 7 and 9K. There are a few more of them available atm, as people are doing the same as you are thinking, and upgrading to the new F70.

If you are really, really happy with the hornet and plan to keep it another five years or so, then the F70 might be worth the investment. But if you are already thinking about your next boat, then hang onto the 60.

In regards to Props, I've been through many over the past 10 - 12 years, firstly on my F50 and now the F60. I would recommend you get a second prop for your camping trips, or when you've got a bit of weight on.

I run a 11&3/8" x 12 pitch for my general fishing, and pulling kids around on tubes etc. I get a top speed of around 50 - 53 kmph depending on load. I could get more speed, with more pitch, but would be sacrificing hole shot.

My 'barge" prop is a 11&3/4" x 10 pitch, I've had this for many years and only gets put on when I'm planning on taking a big load on board. ie camping trips. Its also handy if you are trying to pull adults on double skis.

I've had the boat fully loaded for a weeks camping and fishing, and it still got on the plane no worries. Top end speed was down to about 40km/h though, and you have to be careful of not overrevving the engine once all the gear is unloaded.

If you want to loan it for a test run let me know.

With Yammy prop prices right down now, only about $130 last time I got one. I don't reckon its worth paying big dollars for stainless. Just have two props to suit different applications, and keep a shifter, pliers and spare split pins in the toolbox. Very quicky and easy to change.

Cheers,

Matt

Thanks Matt

As for the props - I'm one step ahead of ya :D The boat was proped with a 11 1/8th x 13 (5300rpm 48km / h) which was crap with any load - I dropped to my current 11 3/8th x 12 (5900rpm 51km/h) which made a great improvement:) Then I recently bought a 11 5/8th x 11 - which I'm yet to run ..... but that will be the heavy load prop. certainly good prices atm - I paid $135 for the new yammi prop.

I've fallen back in love with the Hornet hull .... specially that I'm enjoying fishing the tropical creeks again ( crabbing etc) - So I reckon I will hold onto the hull & repower it ....... then maybe replace the hull in 5 years with a purpose built one......... (A whole new package) ........ So it makes a bit of sense as I wont be running a boat with 800-1000hrs on it .
Then there is the improvement in performance (top end speed & low down).

Anyhow - A bit more research to do

Cheers

Chris

[NAGG]

I'm guessing your current motor should be worth somewhere between 7 and 9K. There are a few more of them available atm, as people are doing the same as you are thinking, and upgrading to the new F70.

Matt - If I got that much for my F60 ..... I wouldn't hesitate :P

I've been quoted $11,500 with the LAN Digital gauges , 15" prop & fitting (incl GST)

Chris

[BrettoM]

Chris, I have a F60 on my 440 Hornet Trophy and with a full load hole shot was not great. My local dealer then drilled three holes in my prop (explained it would vent the prop and similar effect to dropping clutch in car). As a result the hole shot substantially improved and does not impact on top end. I think solas props etc come standard with these holes (where blade starts from cylinder). The F60s certainly have the reputation and will be interested to see how the 70s go over time. Difficult decision but cost benefit might be doubtful.
Cheers Brett.

[hellfish]

Just do it . Im gonna. Done heaps of reacearch on this motor since it came out. Its been out for quite a while in the states and hav not been able to dig up a bad word on it. The yanks are raving about it as the ultamate motor for skiff style flats boats. The only nay sayers seem to be etec fans;D . Torque is deffinetly not their weak point. "Its just reving harder to make more power" Crap! F60=60hp @5600RPM. F70=70hp@5800RPM and it wiil rev to 6300. Cant wait for mine.

[Grouse]

Got one, and it's brilliant. swing'in a 16 on 4.5m plate. 3 guys and a esky still plans easy.

[johncar]

I just liked the look and spec of the F70A when it was released and wanted one.
Thinking of building a boat to suit one;) !

If you plan on keeping your boat for a while longer (4-5years or more) it should serve you well to upgrade and the 70 seems a good choice.

Hoefully someone will dial in who has the rig you have + the 70.