Pod and Ventilation Problem

[Whitefin]

Hi to the Forum,

This is my first boat, and I also have had very little experience with boats so if I have missed something obvious I need to know.

I have a 2008 Campion 602 Explorer Sports Cruiser fitted with a factory bracket and 225 Opti. Length is specified as 20' 10" Centreline, and Max length 23' 1".
I bought the complete used outfit recently with 22 hours on the motor. It all works beautifully EXCEPT when the sea is lumpy and then it ventilates every time I get it up on the plane.

What appears to be the problem to me is that the boat "hinges" (for the want of a better word) over sea swells somewhere just forward of where the front of the stern seat is. By "hinge" I mean the hull rises over a swell and the falls down into trough behind the swell, and it the imaginary line across in front of the rear seat is the point where it "rocks" or "hinges" over the swell.

This action then lifts the motor upwards (as the bow goes down into the trough) and causes the ventilation to start. It will not cease ventilating until I come back down off the plane and almost stop. The local dealer lowered the motor one hole (it is right down now) but the problem persists the same. The motor sits very low in the water when not planing and frequently gets water over it, so I cant see lowering the motor further as a solution.

I have read where the motor may need to be raised rather than lowered to prevent ventilation, but I cant see this fixing the problem as the motor would still be lifted upwards on the end of the bracket. It appears to me the motor gets lifted vertically about 6" when going over a swell, this is because it is at the end of a "see saw" (or is that sea saw?). On calm water, or in chop where the hull works very well and sits flat with a great ride the boat goes beautifully.

I have watched the motor at speed in calm water and the ventilation plate above the prop seems to be ok as it is just in the "splash" there and visible some of the time.

To the Forum can I ask for experiences and guidance to sort this issue. I will be talking to the factory direct (Canada) also as it is a factory bracket, and so I wrongly assumed it would be designed to function in all conditions.

Cheers
David

[Angla]

It sounds like the motor should be lowered by some holes on the bracket. What we really heed is a photo or 2 showing the line of the hull in relation to the planing plate on the leg of the motor. Something like the 2 below. If the pod is stepped up then we also need to see the distance from the hull to the motor leg. Best shown with the planing plate trimmed horizontal with the hull as in the second photo

Cheers
Chris

[djfish71]

I would look at replacing the motor bracket with a full pod following the shape of the existing hull. This will increase your water line length & give more bouyancy at rest

[maimai]

your set up sounds just about perfect, are you running a 3 blade prop? have you tried other props?

[Jarrah Jack]

Are you trimming the motor right out once you get on the plane to get the bow up and the prop biting? Does the boat have trim tabs? You could also play around with the weight distribution in the boat as well as changing the prop. You need to also discuss the problem with someone like solas who know all about correct proping.

Is there a Canadian forum that you can discuss the boat with other owners as well as the factory?

[Whitefin]

Hi to the Forum

Thanks for the responses - much appreciated.
Today I took some pics as suggested, but have had no luck posting them - I'm digitally challenged by these simple tasks!! So if you can point me to the instructions I'll have another go.

Angla - the motor is as low as it can go with current setup.

Maimai - currently running a 3 blade prop - next move is to try others

Jarrah Jack - I have tried it with the trim in all positions. Despite the bracket and motor way out the back, the boat is not stern heavy. Trimming right out certainly lifts the bow way too high, but it runs great with some trim.
There are no trim tabs.
I have had no response from Canada yet - previously it takes 24 hours before they come back due the time difference I guess

Today I have measured the current setup - bracket height, ventilation plate above hull V bottom, hull to prop, and they are all "within reason", if anything the motor is sitting a fraction low, so the original setting (one hole up) was about spot on.

The prop is the next thing to try. Dealer has explained what needs to happen and how it can be achieved, so will source a prop (or two) to try next. He is more than convinced the current prop is not up to the task. His philosophy is try the cheapest things first - hence lowering the engine first. He is hopeful to source a 4 blade prop and another 3 blade to trial that he believes will cope with a bit of air, and "drive" the boat harder (maybe not the correct term) into the lumpy seas and move the "pivot" point of the boat further back towards the stern. In other words a prop that will supply forward motion a fraction longer and hence change the pivot point as the hull comes over a swell so the prop is not "levered" vertically far enough to ventilate. He explained this will be a compromise to the current prop as with there will be reduced performance at high speed and possibly at low speed, reversing etc.

This shouldn't be an issue as the boat is currently pretty fast, but this feature is not a lot of use on the south west coast here where lumpy seas are the "norm" and moderate speeds (where the proposed props perform best) are often all that can achieved for comfort and safety. Particularly heading home if the wind gets up.

Again - Thanks for the responses so far, your sharing of knowledge and experience is much appreciated - please keep them coming. The final solution to this problem may well hinge on a insight from a post on the forum.

Cheers
David

[Jarrah Jack]

G'day David


South West coast, Is that Tassie/ You don't want that happening in those waters. Your dealer sounds a helpful fellow. I think it would still be worth giving solas a ring.

Also the us forum The Hull Truth may be able to help with that particular hull and pod set up. I've read of pods that can turn a good hull into a dog (or porpoise) that no amount of playing with the prop will fix. Hope you get it sorted.

[Lovey80]

I hope you are not paying any extra getting this boat set up right?

How is your weight distribution in the boat? Have you got something very heavy forward (Like rain water caught down below deck) that could be forcing the "Over Porpoise"?

What height "swells" are we talking about here?

[Noelm]

OK, lets start with some very simple and maybe very obvious things, you say this is your first boat! is there a chance you are "tilting" the motor in until it hits the "trim" range and the sound changes, and you think it is all the way in? can you contact the previous owner and ask if he/they had the same problem (maybe that's why he sold it)? is there a chance of fitting some wedges to the transom/bracket to get more trim in? can you find another owner and ask them if their boat is OK? all these things cost nothing and may steer you on the right path.

[Whitefin]

Hi to the Forum,

Jarrah Jack - I'm SW of WA - I imagine would need another $100K worth of boat for SW Tassie!!
The dealer I am working with is new to me, but is the agent for these boats (didn't know that when I bought the boat in the city). He has a display boat exactly the same with bracket that had a 220 Evinrude and no ventilating problems. Sadly he has sold the motor off it so cant put it to the test to get confidence that there is a solution.
Dealer has Solas in mind if once he establishes what the trend is with the trial props. Maybe use Solas to fine tune - hopefully!!
As this is a factory bracket for this hull one would assume it to be spot on (dreaming again), time will tell.

Lovey80 - Dealer helping me is not the dealer who sold it to me - they are too far away to stuff around with at this stage - may live to eat those words. Anyway he needs to make a living and I am happy with that.
Weight distribution I'd say is OK - there's nothing on it except 4 fishing rods, life jackets, lunch and a drink. Shifting the people load forward or back makes no difference to the ventilation issue. Fuel tank is 220 litres - have now run it down to 30% or about 60-70 litres - no difference between 220 and 70 litres after experience coming home today.
This morning when we went out is was windless - flat sea - jumps up on the plane quickly to 40 knots in seconds with plenty still to go if you want it. Have lifted bow very high when on the trailer to check for trapped water, and had a scratch around, satisfied all is OK there - thanks for that suggestion.
Size of swell - my estimation (a guess really) is anything over 1 metre with a speed of 18 knots or more causes ventilation - it is very easy to "bring it on". Today coming home we had 1-1.5M Chop (as opposed to swell) we were heading into at a 30 degree angle (so the effect of swell if you like) and anything over 17 knots it would ventilate immediately - but hold most of the time at 13-15 knots.

Noelm - I have tilt and trim sorted and understand what you are saying, there is a digital trim gauge, and of course the visual check. Thanks for the suggestion.
I am sure the previous owner had the same issue - he had to have - but he only put it in the water twice and it had 22 hours on the motor (2 weekends I'd say) when he finished with it - he lost a lot of money on a boat he paid almost $100K for - and unfortunately for him his life circumstances changed dramatically and quickly and the boat was of no further use to him - it's a sad story. So what the sea conditions were like when he used it I dont know - maybe he didn't experience ventilation. He sold it on commission through the dealer where I bought it. I insisted on a sea trial rather than in the river as suggested, did a 1000kms round trip to do this, day was lousy, 30 knot winds, 2 metre chop with white caps out of the marina, so there was no hope of getting it up on the plane that day!! but it sure ploughed through it OK before we gave it a miss. So my inexperience didn't prompt me to check for such and issue.

Wedges may be a consideration - but I think it's OK as is as with trim right in the bow is right down - cant run it there, especially in lumpy seas as it would plough into the water for sure. In calm water needs a bit of trim up to plane correctly.

Thursday the dealer here is going to run the prop trials, hopefully he has got hold of what he needs by then. We'll see how it goes from there and I'll post anything interesting that evolves.

Thanks for your interest and help

Cheers
David