DF140 just stops

[suzygs1000]

Hi,

I am having a recurring problem with my 2007 Suzy DF140.

It just stops.

There is no fuel in the primer bulb when it stops.

Just had 200 hour service at dealer.

It had done this just prior to the service, and I advised them of this.

The computer showed nothing except overheating, and they replaced the thermostat, but the stopping was not caused by overheating.

It stopped again on the next reef trip following the service.

It can't be the fuel pump, as if it stopped working , the bulb would still be full of fuel.

It would appear that there is a fuel blockage somewhere between the pump and the tank.

I have removed the underfloor fuel tank, but there was nothing in it that could have caused a blockage over the fuel pickup. Also, the fuel pickup has a filter on it about 20mm long and 10mm thick, which would be very hard to block.


It is not the fuel hose, as I used it to syphon the fuel from the tank.

There were no sharp bends or kinks in the fuel line.

I pulled the Cav type filter to pieces, and there were no blockages in it.

The only other item in the line is the sender unit for the Navman fuel monitor, but I have blown thru that and there does no appear to be any obstruction there.

Anyone have any suggestions that might help?

It has done this on two occasions lately, and always starts again after the bulb is pumped up.

thanks Dave. :-? :-?

[krazyfisher]

an air leak??? have you pumped the bulb up and keep pumping see and fuel shows anywhere

[Greg P]

Dave - Check all your battery terminals and battery condition. Also check the connection on the white wire that powers the ecm. Dirty connections on that can do some funny things. Does it start then cut out but restarts straight away?

[suzygs1000]

Last Tuesday, it stopped, but we had been out to Britomart and got almost back to Lucinda ( a round trip of about 90 k's) before it stopped. You would think that an airleak would be there all the time.

I will have a good look tho, and try pumping it up and looking for fuel./ Thanks.

[Spaniard_King]

put a primer bulb between the tank and the cav unit and pressurise the system. i will lay my money on the cav unit having a leak.. put a decent filter on if this is the case... the cav's are painfull with so many seals to replace and most only do the bowl seals.. good chance its the top bolt o-ring gone :)

[suzygs1000]

Yes, Greg, that is exactly what it does. After it stopped on tuesday, it started again instantly, but only ran for about 5 seconds before stopping again. That is when I checked the bulb, found it empty, pumped it up, and off we went with no more problems.

Battery terminals all recently cleaned, and both batteries are in good condition.Where is the white wire to the ECM?

thanks Dave.

[oldie]

also check your fuel tank breathers for build up of salt and grit.

[Greg P]

Yes, Greg, that is exactly what it does. After it stopped on tuesday, it started again instantly, but only ran for about 5 seconds before stopping again. That is when I checked the bulb, found it empty, pumped it up, and off we went with no more problems.

Battery terminals all recently cleaned, and both batteries are in good condition.Where is the white wire to the ECM?

thanks Dave.

Depends where they rigged it. Could be direct to the battery post or battery switch. It is part of the main harness loom. It needs clean power or they do all sorts of funny stuff.

[suzygs1000]

Thanks, Spaniardking, I will do that. I am replacing the fuel line anyway, and will run it straight to the motor from the tank, and bypass the Cav filter to test that theory. I have never been able to get a really hard bulb, but always assumed that this was a characteristic of electronic fuel injection. My previous motors have been carburettored, and the bulbs always pump up really hard.

I am not sure what top bolt seal you are talking about tho, mine only has the two inlet and two outlet tails screwed into the top. Do you mean the oring on top of the filter?

Dave.

[dreemon]

Does this motor have the fuel line connectors that are similar to air compressor fittings?
If not, I had the same thing happening to my yam 90, flattened out primer bulb, and it was the connector to the tank, it's a part you need to buy genuine ,

I thought it was the breather like Oldie mentioned, cause It'll do the same thing.

if I were you I'd trust Garys opinions more than mine :) Good luck

[Spaniard_King]

Dave,a cav type filter has a single bolt to hold the bottom cap/glass bowl and filter together. maybe you have a standard whater trap filter assembly if you dont have the single bolt in the center at the top of the housing.

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=34300&search123=filter&intAbsolutePage=1

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=34306&search123=filter&intAbsolutePage=1

[fishing111]

I think Moonlighter has a similar problem that he has posted on the Suzuki Outboard Forums:




2009 DF115 Not getting full throttle sometimes..
This is one of those annoying, occasional issues that seem to be hard to pin down, so here's my attempt to describe what has happened and the circumstances in the hope that someone here will be able to offer some advice on how to resolve the issue. It doesnt happen every time - just every third or 4th trip.

• Drive out to fishing grounds about 45 mins run, and drift around, at end of each drift, start motor and move back to the top of the drift - most times, not going fast enough to plane, just a fast idle speed back to top of the drift. Turn off and drift for maybe 10 mins, then repeat.
• Did about a dozen drifts as per above, and then decided to move to another spot some distance away. Start motor and attempt to accelerate up onto the plane.
• Motor starts and seems normal, but when push throttle forward it's like the throttle is only partially opening because you don’t get full power - barely enough to gradually get onto the plane, but only just, despite pushing the throttle fullly forward. Motor sounds normal in that its not missing, running rough or anything, but it just doesn't have any real grunt. It will idle along happily. As I say, its like somehow you're only getting 20% actual throttle, despite pushing the throttle level down hard.
• So throttle back to idle, turn the engine off, pump the fuel bulb up hard (it was a bit soft), re-start motor, and its instantly back to full normal performance. Runs fine, doesn’t miss a beat, accelerates hard like it should.
• Did a few drifts, then head home, engine runs perfectly. Actually stopped 2/3 of the way home and idled around watching a tiger shark lunching on a dead dugong for 10 mins, then blasted off back to the ramp, still running perfectly.

More annoying than anything, but still a bit concerning that it might happen one day in a position where you need it to respond and when it doesn't…..

Anyway hopefully this explaination helps, would be good to get a solution that stops it happening.

The only other thing to add is that the days it has happened have been quite warm, but last time it was overcast with minimal sun, but quite warm (28C) and humid. Not sure if that's relevant or not.

Has anyone come across this sort of problem before?

Cheers

ML

[cormorant]

My 2 bobs worth.

Is the primer bulb sucked flat or just no fuel in it? Is the navman between the bulb and the motor or before the bulb?

No fuel is airleak and flat primer is blockage in hose or breather .

Primer bulb valves are stuffed. Have even seen one batch with the arrow on the wrong way and one brand with the arrow and under it word "tank". Hmmmm

People replacing the pressed hose clamps with other crush some bulb pipes or messes with the valves.

Navman may have a vacume air leak. Like hose fittings may not leak fuel but will allow air in under vacume.

Ethanol fuels especially but normal fuel can collapse the inner lining of fuel hoses and dissolve glug wich clogs bulb valve.

When putting degraded hose on barbs it can slip between inner and outer of hose and act like a inconsistant flap valve. Now that one took a few frustrating hours to find.

Just replace both or test with a fresh hose, bulb direct from and see if it reoccurs.

If it happens again and it is air and it happens at the same point of tank becomming empty it may be a crack/hole in the fuel pick up tube inside the tank( if it is vertical in the tank) that only sucks air as tank empties. Doesn't explain fully ( except angle of boat) that you can then reprime.

[mirage]

Like Cormorant says, try replacing the primer bulb. I spent $700 last year on one of my DF140's getting mechanics to trouble shoot something similar and it was a $20 old primer bulb that had broken down inside!!!::)

[scuttlebutt]

common prob with genuine merc fuel lines is the inner lining collapsing causing a partial blockage. Results in similar intermittent symptoms. Dunno if Suzuki's lines are similar but it's a thought.

[Astro]

Had exactly the same thing on our DF140 Johno, and it was the breather on the fuel tank, someone screwed it right in causing vacume and no fuel release, released the valve and it took a few turns to get fuel going, no issues since going 4 years.

[aspherious]

Hi everyone
there is an inherent problem with the suzuki motors once they have been run for some time on a warm/hot day with the fual vapourising and vapour locking. i dont know if suzuki australia is aware however suzuki usa do. there a few fixes that appear to work, one is to install an inline fuel pump, the other is to install some kind of liquid cooling.

please find the following link
http://www.carolinaskiffowner.com/showthread.php?7213-Suzuki-DF-115-problem

the same problem has been described in detail and some solutions given even some photos of their fixes.

hope this answers your questions, i came across this in research for a new outboard

[siegfried]

We,d troll all day in the heat no dramas over1500 hrs no probs , possibly blocked breather rooted bulb rooted internals in line, youll be right those motors and cockroaches will be the only things left on earth one day The 140 has nothing in common with the 115 other tan a suzuki sticker

[Scott nthQld]

We,d troll all day in the heat no dramas over1500 hrs no probs , possibly blocked breather rooted bulb rooted internals in line, youll be right those motors and cockroaches will be the only things left on earth one day The 140 has nothing in common with the 115 other tan a suzuki sticker

Other than the block, valves, and every other part of the engine except gearbox and ECU. 140 is almost exactly the same, cept the block has been bored out a little more for a bit more grunt.

As for the fuel problem, I'd be going for a shot bulb, or filter/separator seals. Air is getting in somewhere

[oldboot]

As usual there seem to be a pile of red herings raised.

If the fuel bulb is soft and repriming solves the problem..it seems pretty clear.

There is some sort of leak in the fuel system and a failure to hold prime.

If you have a CAV lucas style filter, ya realy need to make sure you are putting it togeter right......as mentioned before that centre bolt on the top should have an "O" ring under it..... in the box as well as the two big square "O" rings there hould be a little bag of smaller seals.........and you don't get a complete set of seals with the new eliment there are three large seals in the whole assemby you only get 2 with the eliment...make sure you replace the seal under the glass bowl from time to time..and make sure you have the right seals in the right places and they are on right.

OH... the other thing is that lots of people try to use standard BSP fitting on CAV lucas bodies......they will go in but not far......there is a correct fitting that goes with the CAV lucas and similar bodies..the thread is metric ( i think).

cheers
cheers

[bay cruiser]

Somewhat re-assuring to hear other DF owners are having the same problem I am also currently experiencing with my DF115. I have discovered that pumping the primer bulb gets me going again without any further dramas - but it is annoying. I'm about to replace all the filters but after reading this I may also replace the bulb. Thanks.

[Dan5]

The threads on the fuel hose barbs for Lucas,Delphi and CAV are SAE....yes American thread::).

Dan

[Moonlighter]

Bay cruiser

My df 115 does similar things as noted in earlier post. But I now find that I just turn the engine off, wait 10 seconds, start again and she's away as normal. No need to pump bulb.

So it is still something of a mystery, only happens occasionally.

Cheers

ML

[Far side]

Not sure about the fuel thing but try this
There is a large electrical connector up at the Binicle
If it is not seated properly it will cause the motor to stop randomly
It looks like the motor has a fuel problem but this is not the case
Check it out cause it took me ages to find it

[hard2catch]

Had a similar probelm with a carbied 2stoke,starving for fuel intermittently,after re-priming the bulb it would run fine until the fuel lines ran out of fuel again.The culprit was a small piece of poly shaving in the poly tank,from when holes were drilled to screw in the feul sender,sucking into the fuel pickup hose and blocking it.It would run fine when the shaving would fall back out.

[robothefisho]

Had similar recently with a 140. Replaced primer bulb, no more issues.

[Magneto]

I had the same happen with my old yammie 90, replaced fuel line and priming bulb and it was fine but that link to an usa site was interesting about the fuel pump not having enough insultion to stop some fuel from evaporsing causing a vacume in the line in hot climates.
Cheers

[odes20]

I have a 175 suzy 4 stroke which did exactly as other posts last saturday. After towing a few skiers and a race with another reef boat mate for fun, went for a run half hour later and would not rev past 3500. It eventually got full power back, as we cruised along, but this is the only prob i have experienced with this motor in 3 years. Im going to replace the fuel bulb anyway as it did not seem to want to prime up hard when i tried to resolve the problem.
But I never touch the fuel bulb anyway as the motor just starts perfect every time, even after a month.
Oh well,

John