Bearing Buddies

[Shawn 66]

Morning All,
I need some advise. I have decided to move with the times and look at fitting bearing buddies to the trailer . She is only carrying a 4.39 boat .
1. Are they a good idea.
2. Are one brand better than the others.
Any help would be most welcome.
Cheers,
Shawn.:-?

[Toddy_again]

Mate I am over bearing buddies.I am sick of losing them up the road.I just stick to the caps these days and instead of having to clean bearing buddies when I do the bearings I just whack a couple of new caps in.
Personally if I was going to spend the money it would be better spent on bearing buddy styled caps that have a window in them so you can see what color the grease is in the hub.
Thats just my opinion though.

Toddy

[Scalem]

Never had a problem since installing them, they are the greatest thing since sliced bread for boaties. You can over grease them, but so long as you pump a few squirts of grease every 3rd or 4th trip I don't have any problems even with my dual axle dunbier drive on trailer which gets fully dunked every trip. Grease is still clean after 19 months since new, 118 hours on the motor so that's a lot of use. Even the rubber dust caps are still on there so don't know what people do to lose them....

Scalem

[finga]

When you service the bearings is there ever any water in there?
If not then don't waste your money on anything.
If there is water getting in the bearings then spend the extra dollars and get the bearing bears or the like. They're the oil filled hubs
Money well spent.

[Argle]

I ditched the ones that came on my new trailer - waste of time, the bloody things leak they overpressurise the hubs and spew grease everywhere if you pump too much in. I just use the good old bearing cap with a smear of sealant on it and service the bearings once a year!

Cheers
Scott

[PinHead]

if fitting bearing buddies the best time to pump some grease into them is straight after the wheels come out of the water. Personally..would not have them. Put some oil filled hubs on..only worry about the bearings once in about 5 years..window lets you see the colour of the oil...far better way.

[Roughasguts]

When you service the bearings is there ever any water in there?
If not then don't waste your money on anything.
If there is water getting in the bearings then spend the extra dollars and get the bearing bears or the like. They're the oil filled hubs
Money well spent.


But the oil falls out a whole lot quicker if the seal fails! compared to grease! so the oil filled bearings could fail very quickly on the road! not something I would live with with confidence. Not on my Boat or caravan anyway.

Had bearings with grease! and also bering buddies don't over load (to much grease) and no failures in my 35 years of driviing.

Cheers.

[Skusto]

I ditched the ones that came on my new trailer - waste of time, the bloody things leak they overpressurise the hubs and spew grease everywhere if you pump too much in. I just use the good old bearing cap with a smear of sealant on it and service the bearings once a year!

Cheers
Scott


i agree i lost one buddy replaced with normal cap ,works fine no water in bearings and i sink trailer.

bevan

[finga]

But the oil falls out a whole lot quicker if the seal fails! compared to grease! so the oil filled bearings could fail very quickly on the road! not something I would live with with confidence. Not on my Boat or caravan anyway.

Had bearings with grease! and also bering buddies don't over load (to much grease) and no failures in my 35 years of driviing.

Cheers.
All seals can fail so yep, the oil can definitely leak out.
Oil filled hubs do run cooler so there is less chance of seal failure and because the oil is very visiable it is a lot easier to see if there is a problem with the seal as weeping will occur and the oil could become milky if water gets into the oil.
Trucks have been running oil filled hubs for years and every car on the road has a seal keeping the oil in things like motors, gear boxes and diffs.
The engineering/machining on trailer axles is usually the weak link in oil filled hubs and that's why I put a speedy sleeve over the normal seal surfaces of the axle when I fit them. Just to make sure everything is dunky dory.

[NAGG]

Yep - Bearing buddies / mates get my vote ...... only lost 2 in 4 years and 1 of those was because of an incorrectly fitted split pin. I drive on some pretty rough roads and travel big distances (35,000Ks of trailering)
The combination of a yearly rebuild and bearing buddies gives me peace of mind.
Nothing better than seeing nice blue grease when I do my rebuild.:)


It takes a hell of a lot of grease to blow seals ....... certainly not what you would pump in during the course of a year. Spending the time and a little bit of money will avoid those roadside repairs (which can turn out to be expensive)

Chris

[Lucky 1]

I have lost my fair share of bearing buddies over the years>:(. I have found the main culprit to be over loading them with grease, so I dont do that anymore. On one occasion I lost one because of a reason- too much play on the wheel, the lesson learnt was it was time to change the bearings. You might want to check that.

Regards,

Lucky

[Out-Station]

I went away from bearing buddies because of water getting in. Do this - get b/b, stand it upright and fill the top of it with water. If you pressurize that water or even leave them standing the water leaks through the seal in most cases. Not all of them but a fair percentage.

Oilers are excellent imo but expensive & i'm to tight, I'm back to caps and marine seals, couple of tricks i use are

1. Get any rust etc of the stub axle surface, keep it shiny to get a flush fit with the inside of the seal.

2. Make a small spacer out of the old seal that slips on the stub axle first to make sure that the marine seal always has pressure on it pushing it into its housing. Depending how your stubs are cut you may or may not need this but allot do, keeps the marine seal tight in its stainless housing thingo and hence the seal can't ride back along the stub and let water in.

3. Load the rubber marine seal lips (the space in between them) with grease to help fend off in water or dust coming in this way.

4. Put the hub on as you normally would but before you put the front bearing on, stick about 10 to 20 mls of heavy gear oil in the hub, basically enough so it doesn't run out the front when the hub is held level, it pools in the recess in the hub. Basically the oil combines with the grease to form a slurry as the whole lot gets hot, lets the grease run back into the bearing when stopped, is also a more effective lubricant. A fitter mate of mine showed me this trick, recons truckies have been doing it that way for years, works really well.

5. Use loctite 414 on a standard bearing cap to keep the water out.

This is what works for me anyway. Been running the same bearings for 2 and half years now. I just service / re pack them every 12 or 14 month or so.

[bushwacker]

Bearing buddies are shit!!! Do a good job of packing your bearings an use flexable flange sealant (this stuff works wonders for sealing) on your marine seals an on the cap and you wont have any problems, i also run a wet bearing which is exactly the same as you would pack a normal bearing but i add 5ml of gear oil into the hub when you fit it and this works a treat never get hot and last forever got put onto this way by a mate whose dad owns truck business reckons he does it with his trailers and increased his bearing life significantly..

[NAGG]

Tip : Do not use the seals with the spring in them !!!!:(:(:(

Always use the press in steel cup ones that the rubber seal fits into - - - MUCH MORE GOODER!;)

Chris

[robothefisho]

Bearing buddies are absolutely useless. If you want to keep your bearings in good shape don't use them.

[Shawn 66]

Thanks to all for your opinions. If I can't make an informed decision after that I need R**TING.
Shawn

[Cheech]

I am really surprised with how many are anti bearing buddies. I have always used them and never lost any. And that is on 3 different boat trailers. Even if you over fill them and they make a mess, I think it is better to over fill than under fill.

[Spaniard_King]

Bearing buddies are only as good as the Installer and that starts with the bearings and seals.

I do many bearings,seals and bearing buddies and there are quite a few points to getting it right. Like

Use the 2 peice marine seal
Ensure the rubber part of the 2 peice seal never moves on the shaft!!!!!
grease the outer lips of the 2 peice seal
Pregrease the bearings
Correct bearing tension helps alot.
install the bearing buddy using loctite bearing mount (I use 680)
Use a bearing buddy with a stainless spring
fill the bearing buddy until grease emits from the overflow
maintain spring tension on the bearing buddy by gresing regularly (about every 6 trips once the hub cavity is full)

I check my own bearings every 2 years and generally replace every 4

[whiteman]

I've used BBs for many years and they have not failed. The rear seal is a different issue - this is the one you can't see and BBs can keep the front side grease looking very blue while the backside can be turning a nasty shade of brown.

BBs or not, it's a great idea to jack the wheels every few months and give them a spin and a shake to make sure there is no play and no bad noise. All wheels should make the same noise when spun so if one is a little louder than the others it may be an early warning. Buy a trolley jack from supercheap and have it lying around near the boat asa a reminder to check.

[Fed]

100% SK.
I converted my old trailer from single to 2 piece seals because it was 2nd hand when I got it, after 7 years of saltwater dunking the bearings felt and performed like new when I dumped it.
I used a spacer behind the seal to stop it moving back and also use sealant between the seal and the stub to be sure no water can get in there.
I also use sealant between the SS seat and the hub and of course between the Bearing Buddy & the hub too.
IMO those 2 piece seals are a Godsend giving a brand new perfect running surface instead of trying to seal against a comparatively rough old stub axle with no positive way of holding the seal in place.
Imagine my delight when my new boat trailer came with an axle that was machined to suit 2 piece seals, no spacer needed as the seal butts right up to the axle square.
Another thing I do when fitting the little plastic BB cover is to make sure and let the air pressure out, I peel the edge of the lip up and push in on the centre of the cover to create a tiny vacume if that makes sense.
There's no reason why boat trailer wheel bearings shouldn't last as long as car wheel bearing and who changes them, not me that's for sure.

[Shawn 66]

Bearing buddies are only as good as the Installer and that starts with the bearings and seals.

I do many bearings,seals and bearing buddies and there are quite a few points to getting it right. Like

Use the 2 peice marine seal
Ensure the rubber part of the 2 peice seal never moves on the shaft!!!!!
grease the outer lips of the 2 peice seal
Pregrease the bearings
Correct bearing tension helps alot.
install the bearing buddy using loctite bearing mount (I use 680)
Use a bearing buddy with a stainless spring
fill the bearing buddy until grease emits from the overflow
maintain spring tension on the bearing buddy by gresing regularly (about every 6 trips once the hub cavity is full)

I check my own bearings every 2 years and generally replace every 4
G'Day Garry,
So what your saying is ,if you know jack s**t about it like I do, I am better off getting them installed by a professional.
Cheers Shawn

[Cheech]

Shawn, they just tap in. You can do it yourself. Just tap them in evenly so they go on straight. Or use a piece of wood against it and hit the wood.

[ozscott]

I am a strong fan of the greasable buddies (the good quality ones). I use Timkin bearings and the buddies and have years of trouble free use. Never lost one. Just be careful not to overpressurise.

Cheers

PS. I changed by bearings a few months ago after years of use with buddies and they were excellent with virtually no pitting. The starting point though is good quality bearings.

[murf]

for those that lose them were they too loose when installed or over pressurised?

to adjust tightness a towball is good ;) put the flange side over tow ball and give a good whack with hammer with a piece of wood as a buffer to spread the flange a bit

I was not a fan of them as it goes against all I was taught but a little grease often and you will get years of salt water life from your quality bearings

well worth the investment IMO

cheers Murf

[cormorant]

I don't bother with marine seals and just use quality double lip seals. Am I the only one as I have seen too many marine seals not seat properly and die early?.


Do others completely fill hub with grease - and I mean completely? Used to have grease catchers on a very old trailer and some farm machinery that you pumped grease through and it spat out and then got caught in the catcher. You have a spec to do 2 or 3 pumps every start up and clean out the catcher and you knew fresh grease was there.. I don't leave any air and I haven't had issues of heat building up like others have previously talked of.

I have previously drilled and tapped a grease nipple on the back of the hub as it is that bearing that gets wet first ( usually from rust on the shaft). Pump grease in and weep from the seal was always a good thing. Seriously unless the grease gets real hot it isn't really mobile and to thing a 3psi bearing buddy can really push grease out the back and most grease guns put in a tiny amount each pump.? .

Trucks with oil last forever as they have dual dust and oil seals on properly machined surfaces and are very overrated compared to their usual load with very accurate tensions on installation.. A trailer bearing in comparison is on a crappy shaft , has salt water corrosion and has usually far to much load poorly sprung on a flexing stub with average bearings and average installation. Only problem with oil is that if you have a bearing stuff up , hardening comes off or whatever that the bits also end up in the other bearing and you get a hot handgrenade of a hub faster. With grease they stay independent .

I still use the nautilus grease and it seems to repell water even when old.

I'd love to mill up my own hub and stub with a second seal area and in between filled but bleedable so a quick undo the bleed and pump in and if you see water in the grease you now you have a outer seal problem. Either that or have a 2nd nipple on the front that feeds the back bearing.

My hubs never really get much hotter than luke warm ( except from brakes) so the sucking in water isn't the issue for me.

Like spaniard king check em well, regularly , set em right and 3- 4 years from bearings and usually only change out as a big trip is looming and since I have em apart I replace the lot. Most failures I had was when younger and did stuff up too tight and was a tight bum on grease or reused a seal or cone - all the stupid things I knew were wrong but you know - young and bulletproof.

Only water I get is when I let the kids loose with the pressure washer and they go hard around the seals - well that's what I think it was as seals looked perfect.

Bottom line on bearing buddies . Good ones properly installed are Ok but the key is properly installing bearings and seals to start with and then even normal caps do a great job but all bearings need to be checked and hubs felt when you stop as it gives you that early warning. Buy good grease and a proper grease gun and use it.

I've given up helping people on the side of the road ( well nearly) when I see badly maintained stuff. Failure from neglect isn't a accident but is a accident waiting to happen.

I have never seen a cut away or a properscientific test with a bearing buddy on a hub showing it can actually push grease through unless it is hot and melted which means something is up? For such a widely used product you think someone would prove that there is actually 3psi at the back seal? I personally think the grease we use is to thick / sticky to get that result nand the springs in them too weak. ? Has anyone seen some test that proves they can work? I know the theory but...... I have had a stub axel and pulled the back seal and pumped up a bearing buddy and next morning spun it a bit again - buddy bearly moved and not pumping grease through inner bearing? I have used plenty of machines with old grease cupson a thread that apply real pressure and force grease through and pins on tractors where a auto greaser will pump a bit all the time.?


How about we design a bearing with seals on inside and outside for both sides as a sealed unit running on a speedy sleeve ?

[Raesen]

Hi guys a different slant on things....

Isn't it just as easy to grab a six pack on a Sunday afternoon (if you don't intend to drive) throw a jack under the trailer, strip and clean the bearings and regrease...

Doesn't have to happen every trip and depending on use and submersion maybe quarterly/six months (like rates only this is cheaper).

You can then drive to Cairns from Bris without concern and at the end of the day if you need to and on the day you have a couple of stubies left to admire your work or if they are finished and you can have a rum.... Win Win IMO.
Cheers
Pete

[cormorant]

Hi guys a different slant on things....

Isn't it just as easy to grab a six pack on a Sunday afternoon (if you don't intend to drive) throw a jack under the trailer, strip and clean the bearings and regrease...

Doesn't have to happen every trip and depending on use and submersion maybe quarterly/six months (like rates only this is cheaper).

You can then drive to Cairns from Bris without concern and at the end of the day if you need to and on the day you have a couple of stubies left to admire your work or if they are finished and you can have a rum.... Win Win IMO.
Cheers
Pete

With a triaxel and disc brakes it is a full case job with air tools . Shouldn't be needed if a bit of care and knowledge is done when bearings and seals are installed. Glad I don't own that for maintainance anymore. At the amp with the boat off once every couple of months would just back it onto a lump of wood ( jack) and check spin and freeplay and have a good look at inner seal. Couple of pumps with grease and that was it. I won't pull things apart unless they need it.

[ozscott]

Hi guys a different slant on things....

Isn't it just as easy to grab a six pack on a Sunday afternoon (if you don't intend to drive) throw a jack under the trailer, strip and clean the bearings and regrease...

Doesn't have to happen every trip and depending on use and submersion maybe quarterly/six months (like rates only this is cheaper).

You can then drive to Cairns from Bris without concern and at the end of the day if you need to and on the day you have a couple of stubies left to admire your work or if they are finished and you can have a rum.... Win Win IMO.
Cheers
Pete

Not for me with dual axle trailer with discs. Bearing buddies, well fitted bearings, regular grease and years of trouble free boating.

Cheers

[oldboot]

It occurs to me that a good quality water resistant grease is a good thing.

I doubt that any grease manufacturer would recomend mixing gearbox oil with their grease.

They certainly do not recomend mixing greases.

I notice some of you are talking about grease "melting"......I recon if your grease is "melting" it isn't high enough teperature rated.

Castrol Blue grease ( lithium complex) ( boating grease/APXT/LMX) and its other brand equavalents......seems to be a great grease for wheel bearings...it is suposed to be pretty damn water resistant......and is suposed to have a dropping point up arround 170C.

I recon I'll be staying with standard caps and marine seals and blue grease.

cheers

[ozscott]

OB - I use that grease, but with bearing buddies, and good seals and good bearings. There is a common theme here with many of us about attention to detail whether it be using buddies or cap.

Cheers

[oldboot]

Mate I recon the care and attention to detail is doing more than the bearing buddies.

cheers

[NAGG]

Doing the bearings right & often will leave you with trouble free trailering (bearing wise)
Good quality grease ( I use Nautilus) . Timken bearings & 2 piece marine seals ...... a complete rebuild yearly makes for peace of mind ($60 & 2 or 3 hours of my time is just so worth while)

The bearing buddies are just a nice simple way to keep grease up to the bearings during a long trip - 3or4 squirts and all is good:)

Chris

[wrxhoon]

[
quote=cormorant;1230970]I don't bother with marine seals and just use quality double lip seals. Am I the only one as I have seen too many marine seals not seat properly and die early?.No you are not , I don't use Aussie type marine seals either, they are just plain crap for me. Look at what they use in USA , double lip seals and the smart guys use speedi sleeves a S/S sleeve for the seal to run on : http://www.vsm.skf.com/en-US/HeavyDuty/KitsAndTools/SpeediSleeve.aspx

This is what I use, the seal always runs on a perfect surface , not pitted rusty steel.

I also use B/B ( only ever use the original US made Bearing Buddy brand), others are much cheaper but I won't risk them .
The reason I use BB's is so I can fill the hub with grease ( thats the only reason). A hub full of grease won't let any water to come in, even if the seal fails .
Nothing wrong with oil filled hubs but I prefer the grease .


Do others completely fill hub with grease - and I mean completely?
Thats a must in a baot trailer.





I have previously drilled and tapped a grease nipple on the back of the hub as it is that bearing that gets wet first ( usually from rust on the shaft). Pump grease in and weep from the seal was always a good thing. Seriously unless the grease gets real hot it isn't really mobile and to thing a 3psi bearing buddy can really push grease out the back and most grease guns put in a tiny amount each pump.? . In USA you can buy axle stubs that have a grease nipple at the end of the stub and 2 holes that grease comes out when you pump it , one for the inner and the other for the out bearing, good idea but again you can't fill the hub totaly.


Trucks with oil last forever as they have dual dust and oil seals on properly machined surfaces and are very overrated compared to their usual load with very accurate tensions on installation.. A trailer bearing in comparison is on a crappy shaft , has salt water corrosion and has usually far to much load poorly sprung on a flexing stub with average bearings and average installation. Only problem with oil is that if you have a bearing stuff up , hardening comes off or whatever that the bits also end up in the other bearing and you get a hot handgrenade of a hub faster. With grease they stay independent .Agree




My hubs never really get much hotter than luke warm ( except from brakes) so the sucking in water isn't the issue for me.Mine only get hot from the brakes if I drive around the burbs , as I have very effective anchors that WORK always , they can get very hot but the alloy wheel acts as a heat shink and they cool quicly.

[Roughasguts]

Hoon, How much are those S/S sleeves going to set us back?

[wrxhoon]

Hoon, How much are those S/S sleeves going to set us back?

They only a few $ each , depending on where you buy them but under $10 each.
You have to make sure you buy the correct size for your stub and make sure you don't damage it when you are installing it .
You only need to do it once , they last a long time, never corrode!
If you use them ( correct size) and a double lip seal you never get any water in your hub, if you do it means its entering from the front dust cap or BB if you have a BB. Keep in mind double lip seals are used to keep oil in most auto applications and they DON'T leak, like gearboxes, diffs, engine cranks , etc... Oil will leak long before water will.

If you want to be 100% sure the dust cap won't leak use sealant when you install.