scupper or no scupper's?!?!?

[therapy]

Gedday Ausfisher's,
A question for you more experienced boaty people. I have a Sportfish r/about with scuppers fitted. From the time I bought it second hand a while back it has leaked a little bit of water through them. It has got to the stage that I either replace them, get plate's welded in there instead and maybe bungs fitted or that one way hose I saw on Nuggets new boat last boat show??? Or should I just get a plate welded and not worry about drainage at all?? Sick of water sloshing around my feet and so are my deckies!!!!

Part 2 of question..Any other alternative's and any recommendation where to get ally welding done nth bris??


Cheers.....Terry.......

[Lovey80]

I would have to say that you should leave them. You will certainly rue the decision to weld them up if you get a big green wave over the side and half your boat is full of water. I am sure you will find a way to keep the water out but definitely have a way for water to exit the boat

Cheers

Chris

[TimiBoy]

Yes, you definitely need them. Have you seen the ones that hang out of the boat, don't know what they're called, but the Cleveland VMR have them on their RIB, and they really look the goods. Maybe Marlin_Mike has a photo?

Cheers,

Tim

[Marlin_Mike]

Yes, you definitely need them. Have you seen the ones that hang out of the boat, don't know what they're called, but the Cleveland VMR have them on their RIB, and they really look the goods. Maybe Marlin_Mike has a photo?

Cheers,

Tim


I am on duty this Sunday at VMR Therapy. Feel free to wander down and check them out if you like. Just give me a ring first to make sure I'm not out on a job.

Mike
0418753574

[Dantren]

What sort of scupper is in place now therapy?
Is it the tennis ball system?

Dan.

[therapy]

Gedday Chris, how's the cat going? Yeah, I know I should probably keep them for the reason you mentioned, just wondering if anyone had an alternative idea's.

Hi Tim. Yeah I think they are the one's Nugget has. Some black hose fitting with a crimped end. Looked good to me too!! Might have to google black drain hose thingy's and see what come's up!!!

Thanks for the offer Mike but I am working this w/end so won't be able to make it. Any chance that you could have a look and see if there is a brand on them somewhere?? Really do look like a better option but as Chris pointed out re the copping a greeny, would they have the same capacity to drain a volume of water?

Dan, the one's currently fitted are the Ron Grant WA rectangular type. They are sprung so when shut hold under tension. I'm not familiar with the tennis ball type?

Cheers.....Terry......

[Noelm]

pretty hard to get any sort of long temr sealing scupper, if you are getting water in, then the height is marginal, not a lot you can do about it I guess, suffer or weld them up.

[Greg P]

You need to replace the seal every year to keep the water out on the grant scuppers. The seal is as cheap as chips, just buy a big roll from BIAS or Whitworths. It is a quick job with the right scraper.

Just a fact of life with them.

[FNQCairns]

Small boats don't need scuppers not enough inherent buoyancy to make them work like they do on bigger boats still they can make owners feel better for having them

Personally i would weld them and be done with it and upgrade the bilge system, small boat scuppers are no substitute for a good one of these. if by chance your hull allows underfloor access for flooding water then there is every chance the boat may stay upright with this ballast long enough for the scuppers to take the top off (if it can still move forward) and the pumps to deal with what's below, short of this they are a bit of an overhead fox tail.

[cormorant]

I went through the whole scupper thing a couple of years ago. Boat designers need a kick in the head and many users don't understand em. I can't say I found a perfect solution but I don't own that boat anymore. Old wetfoot is gone.

If you have the rectangular ones sprung with a stainless spring you can buy new seals for them. They are a burst scupper that requires a manual trip cord to reset them. See a few boats when loaded up with stuff and extra bait tank etc or a heavy 4 stroke always have the scuppers at the waterline and it is a bad recepie unless the deck is 100% sealed should something go wrong. They take a enormous head of water to burst the overcenter spring so unless you are in a positive floatation boat in a real disaster would be useless. The cheaper versions are not 100% watertight or designed to be permanently immersed ( tell that to a boat builder)

Mate has em and they leave them open when not on the water so the seal doesn't get squashed while in storage and lets rain run off the deck

RWB marine have a service kit for them which has the spring and the seal ( I am guessing what type you have) Page 59 and 242.

http://www.rwbmarine.com.au/links.php

or BLA catalog


Couple of pictures of the ball type ones

http://www.hillarysboatshop.com.au/home.php?cat=142

Look for rabud sea scupper ( they do some othe rcool products)

http://www.rabud.com/seascupper2.htm


There are

Duckbill ones - rubber that siphons out water when on the move - Some manufacturers ( stabicraft on frontier model) male their own duckbill style and do them in 2inch PVC type material sewn/ welded into a tube and connected to the scupper hole. They tie the end of the tube up on the stern when at rest so you don't get wet feet . Only automatic when on the move and have em down over bars as boat is positive floatation. Someone with a stabi can put a photo up.


Flapper ones - stainless or rubber flap to simply stop backwash coming in and to seal up reasonably well when backing down on a fish. - wet feet and the deck needs a lot of height above the waterline to use em unless deck is sealed.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearch?Ns=Most%20Popular|0



Ball drains- Work well on inflatables - they still weep unless spotless and are only good on a boat with positive floatation in case they fail. End ball needs to be below waterline at rest to keep pressure on ball to seal. Can use a plug, bung to seal while at rest..


Zodiac had some good large ones on their big boats.

[STUIE63]

here is a link to the duckbill type they screw into a bung hole http://www.boatingcentral.com.au/products.php?product=RWB1568-Self-Bailer%252dCoarse-Thread
hope this helps the part # is the importers # so you should be able to get from your local chandlery the importer is rw basham
Stuie

[JB]

I love my scuppers not for the safety factor but for the easy hose out at the end of the day, dont have to worry about bilge pumps clogged with fish guts and trying to get chunks of pillies through the tiny bungs.. just replace em mate, dont weld em up.

[Marlin_Mike]

PM sent Terry


Mike

[therapy]

Just got back from BIAS and the catalogue there stated that the scuppers are not suitable for constant immersion. Mine are immersed being under the step on the back of the boat so it would appear that they really aren't suitable. Thanks for going to all that trouble Cormorant. Looks like an alternative will have to be found. Thats the one's I was thinking of Stuie and you are right JB, they do make for an easy hose out but with the sealed floor I don't have the crap in the bilge problem. I don't think I could go through another winter with wet feet and will have to sleep on her in month or so the drier the better!! Mike pm received.
Thanks again fellas.

Cheers....Terry.....

[krazyfisher]

I have scuppers on a 4mtr creek boat and it great, if your putting pots in and there is mud just throw a bucket of water around.

[Lovey80]

Therapy the little Tin cat is going great. Just spent far to much money on a custom job ( report to come when I get my memory card back). It doesn't have scuppers and it was becoming very annoying having water sloping around the back when I used the deck wash etc and the little bilge pumps wouldn't pick it all up as they just sat flat on the ally floor. Part of the custom job was to have 1 well welded into the floor above each hull so that any water would drop into it and then could be bilged out with 2 new larger pumps. Also means the new floor will stay mostly dry instead of the carpet soaking it up when I forget the bilge until I feel wet feet. As soon as I get my pics I'll do a report on the new "Prozac".

[Moonlighter]

See if you can figure a way to install the biggest bungs possible at floor level from the inside. That way in bad conditions, as long as you are moving forward you can open them to let any water than comes on board run out the back. Had that on my last boat for 10 years and worked fine. But managed to avoid copping any major green waves over the side too!

All the 5.5m and smaller, older model Sportfish's Ive seen were very marginal in terms of having the deck above water line when the boat is at rest, especially with a couple of blokes down the stern fishing. So scuppers nearly always under water line and prone to leaking. Makes for cold tootsies esp in winter!

Cheers

ML

[MINE09]

I'd get rid of them, like already mentioned they are more suitable for bigger boats, my next door neighbour is lucky to be alive when one of his scuppers were comprimised and took in water while sleeping on an overnighter, by the time they relised they were in the drink:-[ . If waves are comin over the side of ya boat you've picked the wrong weather!

[White Pointer]

G'day,

If your boat has a self-draining deck it will have scuppers. A self draining deck is a feature found in better boats, so leave them there and work on fixing the seals.

Otherwise the tube type are fitted to some of the latest Stabicraft. If you want to see what they look like and how they work you might check their website.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

White Pointer

[therapy]

Interesting to see the difference in opinions. The bungs from the inside is a good idea Moonlighter. The only use the scuppers get at the moment is to let out the water that they let in and as MINE09 state's, if you need scuppers then you have probably got the weather wrong. A failure when overnighting could be disastrous. Glad to hear your mate got back ok!! I am pretty careful about the weather and realistic about the capabilities of my boat so I don't temp fate when the forecast is marginal. Whitepointer, it is a self draining deck but the problem I have is that it's state's in the product catalogue that they are not to be fully immersed but on my boat they pretty much are. I will keep some sort of draining set-up but something that is intended for the purpose. Just have to figure out what configuration to go for?!?!?!? I will post photo's of modification's under another thread when I work it all out....


Cheers.....Terry....

[White Pointer]

Interesting to see the difference in opinions. The bungs from the inside is a good idea Moonlighter. The only use the scuppers get at the moment is to let out the water that they let in and as MINE09 state's, if you need scuppers then you have probably got the weather wrong. A failure when overnighting could be disastrous. Glad to hear your mate got back ok!! I am pretty careful about the weather and realistic about the capabilities of my boat so I don't temp fate when the forecast is marginal. Whitepointer, it is a self draining deck but the problem I have is that it's state's in the product catalogue that they are not to be fully immersed but on my boat they pretty much are. I will keep some sort of draining set-up but something that is intended for the purpose. Just have to figure out what configuration to go for?!?!?!? I will post photo's of modification's under another thread when I work it all out....


Cheers.....Terry....

G'day,

Thanks for that. The deck of the boat should be well above the water and therefore so should the scuppers. If you are anchored and the wind is beating against the current it is possible to get wash across the transom and a bit of water may come in, but you make it sound much worse than that.

I thought I had the same problem on the first trip on my boat ... until I found the bungs for the kill tank. That made a world of difference. AUSFISHERS may catalogue my mistake as one of the dumbest things done in boats. I'll cop it.

I still suggest that you work on scupper sealing but if the deck is so close to the water something else might be amiss. Is there much water in the hull when you get it home? Is the engine weight OK for the transom?

Regards,

White Pointer

[Mr__Bean]

I have the same scuppers and I change the seal every couple of years.

I just buy the seal fom Bunnings, I use the window seal rubber stuff that is self adhesive and comes on a roll of about 4 metres.

It is a grey sponge rubber about 10mm wide and about 6-8mm high.

Draft Seal I think they call it. Looks like this:

http://i31.twenga.com/homewares/draught-excluder/white-draught-excluder-draft-tp_9058675353294212077.png

Mine are above the waterline but when we drag the chute on a rough day we have waves pounding against them all day without them leaking.

Just a matter of scraping the old seal out with a right width screwdriver then replacing it with the draft seal stuff.

Start and finish at the top and overlap a bit at the join.

Bob's you uncle!!!

- Darren

[cormorant]

I'd be really careful with draft excluder as neither the rubber glue may be petrol, solvent or even strong detergent proof. Who know what the next batch of draft excluder is going to be made of??. Cast ally with a stainless pin- not really a good design either and never good enough for that job.

I'd be getting the weight out of the bum of the boat ( is it the motor , extra batteries, extra fuel, live bait that wasn't on the demo model?) and I'd be making some bungs you can use if the seal fails as murphy always has it happen on the water on a crappy day when the motor won't start. A lanyard in case the spring fails attached to the inside . Be making sure any penetration through the deck is sealed and that the deck really is watertight. A average bilge pump can cope with a half inch hole with a 1 foot head of water coming in if you are lucky and only as long as your battery or it doesn't clog.

Commercial boats have to have bungs attached to every below or at the waterline opening, seacock etc and I have used one before on a dunny outlet and glad it was there as when a hose broke a idiot forced the seacock and broke it off and I was glad it was there even if it was the wrong size but it worked.

Never ceases to amaze me how fast a boat can flood, just think about the time any of us have left a bung out and then parked the trailer ( takes 8 minutes) . 30 Minutes later the bilge pump is still trying to bail it out.

[Mr__Bean]

Do you ever agree with anyone?

[therapy]

OK men. I have taken some photo's and will get some of it in the water as well but you can see from the inside shot that they are in a little recess maybe 20 mm lower than the deck height. It is a fully sealed floor and I would think that the 2002 90hp Merc on there is lighter than the old 80's model 90hp Johno that was on there when I bought her so weight or weight distribution isn't the problem. The only water in the hull when I get back is from what the scuppers let in and the odd bit of spray and splash.
I considered using something like that stuff Darren, but it doesn't change the fact that they are pretty much fully submersed all the time.

[Lovey80]

Have I got this right that your deck inside the boat would actually sit below the water line at rest? Thats what I get from the photos. If that is right then scuppers should have never been fitted to the boat in the first place IMO. There are some smarter heads than me around on this forum but now that I see that the welding solution may be ok. Just make sure you get some good sized bilge pumps.

[OPTI]

they are just too low to ever work ,get rid of them.
the problem with 90%of self draining decks out there is that they are too small and too low ,as rule of thumb they would need to be at least 6 inches above the water line to have any chance of working,have a look at the size and height of the drains of the rescue cats or trawlers for that matter and youll get an idea of the size required to be effective incase of a wave over.
if you did cop a wave over in your boat ,the weight would definately put your scuppers well under the water line and actually help sink you.
now if your really worried about taking a wave over,buy two of the biggest bilge pumps you can get,3000 gph would be enough 5000gph even better ,two of those will pump out a 44 gallon drum in 30 seconds which would be way more water than those scuppers would ever let out.

[therapy]

Yeah Chris, you're right, they should probably never have been there. They have obviously been there since new but I don't like the idea of any holes in my hull below the waterline.
Opti, I have been thinking that would be a better alternative, a couple of good size bilges in the back corners. Just have to see where they fit the best without being toe breakers and the biggest bungs you can get where the scuppers are now (after getting a plate welded in).
Thanks for all your input guy's. Off to see a welder next week then by the looks!!! I will post some photo's of the end result back in this thread so you can see the final solution.

Cheers....Terry......

ps...Chris, interested to see what you've had done to the Webster. Looking forward to photo's and description..

[Lovey80]

Yeh mate weld those bastards up asap and install Twin Big Arse Bilge Pumps (TBABPs) on the deck. You may want to consider some small wells to sit them down into to so any water drops in to the wells instead of sloshing around the boat.

[White Pointer]

OK men. I have taken some photo's and will get some of it in the water as well but you can see from the inside shot that they are in a little recess maybe 20 mm lower than the deck height. It is a fully sealed floor and I would think that the 2002 90hp Merc on there is lighter than the old 80's model 90hp Johno that was on there when I bought her so weight or weight distribution isn't the problem. The only water in the hull when I get back is from what the scuppers let in and the odd bit of spray and splash.
I considered using something like that stuff Darren, but it doesn't change the fact that they are pretty much fully submersed all the time.

G'day,

Looks pretty scary. A well designed way to sink. Does the boat have a self draining deck? Is it about the same height at the step shown in the photo? If so, can you move them up?

If not, there is something wrong here. The deck height should not be below the waterline. Is there too much weight on the transom?

Regards,

White Pointer

[Lovey80]

If you do weld them up maybe get who ever you get to do it do do something like this?

[therapy]

WP, I think the deck height is just above the water line. The scuppers are actually in a small recess. I don't think transom weight is an issue. Just need to close them scuppers up!!
Chris, As I say above, there is a small recess where the scuppers are but just have to measure up and see if I can get a bilge in there. Big bungs are the other thing I will have to fit. Will post pic's when done.

Cheers...Terry....