90HP motor choice

[Noelm]

I have been looking at 90's to repower my cat and a few people have asked me what I was looking at and why, after a lot of looking and a bit of my own knowledge I have it narrowed down to 3 motors, 90HP 2 stroke Yamaha, 2 stroke Mercury or Suzuki 4 stroke, now why those 3? first up lets get something straight, I do not care about brands, or e-tecs blowing up or any of that crap, these motors are what suits me and my boat, so here goes, first critera was weight, then performance, then cost, not intersted in services and 3 years or oil changes or any of that, so, the Yamaha is the lightest by miles, and that is a big factor for me, the Merc is not all that far behind, as far as 4 strokes go the Suzuki is the lightest, plus has the offset crankshaft that gets a bit of weight further forward, and being a reduction also will allow a bigger prop, I can also get a very competitive price on them, so if 4 strokes win the battle Suzuki it is. In the 2 stroke stakes I kind of favour the Merc because it is a much larger capacity without a lot more weight, the Merc is 1366CC compared to the Yamaha 1140, and is quite a bit cheaper too. I have had the boat in the water with the old V4 Evinrudes and added some weight to make up the Suzuki equivelant, and it seems to be OK, but take off 70KG if I go the Yamaha way and it would be fantastic, so right now I am still pondering those three options.

[FNQCairns]

Well for me purely in end result so in consideration leaving all other wishes behind, the merc is the choice, will allow to swing the biggest pitch prop, get the best trim results and hold a higher fast cruise speed on those days one wishes they have the option.

I think today it is the strongest 90 available?? bit of a sad state of affairs actually compared to days past, possibly the E-tec is a match.

The other two apart from being less of a pure power plant....what is your order of importance re fuel, speed, propping, reliability, service, trolling, NVH, 2 stroke oil, ethanol fuels.

I wouldn't like to be setting up a boat with mid range outboards today, nothing since the Suzuki 90 got displaced by the low powered engine looks all of the good s to me...except the merc...it's an opti??

Does Yamaha still sell the 80/100hp 4 stroke, forget where they came in the on the water ability to twist a prop compared to others.

[BenDover]

SUZUKI 4 stroke way to go..............................

[Noelm]

looked at the Yamaha 80/100 but it is a whopping 174KG, and the Merc is not an Opti, Opti way too heavy, as is the e-tec, which is only a couple of KG different to the Suzuki, for me fuel use is not a huge consideration, excpet for trips to the shelf during summer, a big trip for me is maybe 15mins traveling time, plenty of close in grounds down here. Oil use and changing is also not a problem either.

[FNQCairns]

Ok such short trips! The merc would be my choice but still any of them, considering again the short trips, suck it up either way for those longer ones. Shelf trips i assume will be trolling, 4 strokes are better at that IMO.

Don't think you can go wrong, discounting dealer care and price anyway.

[aaron_gilmour]

Noelm,

Have you considered the Honda?? I have been reserching the same HP for a while and after checking them all out and water testing a few the honda is my choice!

1500cc motor, 165 odd kg from memory and plenty of get up and go with the blast technology and super super quiet and bugger all fuel.

As much as i love my opti cannot wait to have a honda on the bum!!!

cheers

[Noelm]

the 165KG, plus a bit more for XL shatfs, then X2 makes them too heavy, I am sure the motor is fine, and I would have a Honda without any hesitation, except for the weight, that's where the Suzuki has it all over the others, the Yamaha 70HP 4 is a real lightweight, but not enough HP for me.

[Argle]

Just having spent the last 10 years living with a 90hp merc and now going to a 175hp Suzuki, I would say if fuel cost, noise and smoke along with an engine that will jump and rattle around on the transom at idle are not a problem to you then go for the merc - mine was always reliable and powerful no problem there. Comparing it to a 175 is not really fair power wise but the four stroke has it all over the two in refinement, smooth quiet operation which will be a bonus to the level of enjoyment you get from operating them and the ability to troll along without vibration and no fouling of plugs makes the Suzuki the winner for me.

Cheers
Scott

[rosco1974]

will throw another in the ring..what bout a tohatsu 90hp,reasonably light and great value for your money

[nigelr]

will throw another in the ring..what bout a tohatsu 90hp,reasonably light and great value for your money

Looking at this motor myself atm, Rosco.
Halfway between the yammy and the merc for weight and cc.
Did you look at these, Noelm?
Cheers.

[murf]

will throw another in the ring..what bout a tohatsu 90hp,reasonably light and great value for your money

you talking about the TLDI ?

talked to one bloke and he loved his, I haven't seen many around though

after getting back in a couple of boats with old tech 2str on the back at Fraser a few weeks back I would never go back from the quiet/smooth/efficient/non smelly/easy starting 4 stroke ;)

old tech 2str means twice (nearly :P ) as much fuel to carry to go to the shelf

cheers Murf

[Greg P]

90 Zukes would be nice. I wouldn't discount the 90 TLDI Tohy though. The old boy has one on his webster and it has never put a foot wrong and very economical. Just sounds like an old 3000 Ford tractor :-X::)

[Lantana]

I must admit that based on what was stated in the post, is there any other choice then the Suke 90? Had an older style version of this motor and did not to a lot of hours, but never had a problem. Quiet, economical and power good enought for me. Slow out of the hole at times, but when up and going, great.

[Ratman]

90hp Zukes, at the moment, for me. Unless Yamaha come to the party (90 4's) with weight for HP.

Mick

[Lovey80]

So Noelm you found an 18foot Sharkcat CC?????????????

For me after converting from a 98 Evinrude 2st 40HP to a Suzuki 50HP 4st I was very impressed. Had it a couple of years now and will never go back to 2 stroke if there is a choice again. I think they are all good but the weight is the issue for you so its Suzuki all the way.

[kitty_cat]

hey mate ,
happy to show you the 90hp suzukis in action give us a pm and can arrange something

[murf]

hey mate ,
happy to show you the 90hp suzukis in action give us a pm and can arrange something

Agnes Water M&G in two weeks?

cheers Murf

[Noelm]

[quote=Lovey80;1200001]So Noelm you found an 18foot Sharkcat CC?????????????

quote]
Yes, I did, found one near me that had not been used for years and years, the floor is out now and will be back in (I hope) in a couple of weeks, then I start to get really serious about power.

[top_deck69]

Not 100% sure, but I'm sure I read somewhere when the 70hp yamaha's came out that they were looking at the same block for a 90hp. and since they are slowly refreshing their range (big v6's aswell) might be worth poking around and seeing if anyones knows if this was becoming a reality. Since you still have a bit of work on the Cat could be something to think about

Cheers
Ben

[Noelm]

hey mate ,
happy to show you the 90hp suzukis in action give us a pm and can arrange something
No problem with the motor, I have been in a boat with an 80HP and a 90HP Suzuki and know they are good, just the weight I have to look out for, I am going to move the console just a tad further forward and that may just adjust the trim a bit more for added weight on the transom (I hope)

[finding_time]

Noel

You guys down there dont really do the miles we have to up here so that certainly opens up your choices, what's the fuel capacity on the SC?? And how far is it to your wider spots? That's always been the governing factor on the KC's with only a 108l usable a side it makes engine choice more critical when an average run up here can be 35 - 40nm each way!

I had a ride in a boat with a enduro yami on the other day , i reckon it was the first old tech 2 stroke ride i'd had in 4 years, i had forgotten about how bad those fumes were so it could only be a 4 stroke for me!


Ian

[Noelm]

the boat has 110L per side, but I can easily get new tanks made for next to nothing while the floor is out, and there is anough space in the tank "compartment" for about 140-150L during summer we do a run to the shelf for marlin and some deep bottom bashing, and that is about 25miles from the ramp, maybe go wider if the fish are further out, but bottom fishing for Blue Eye and Gemfish is done about that area/distance, Snapper fishing and so on is very close, a 25L plastic tank would do you for a couple of trips easy, as I said, I don't care about claims of servicing every 3 years, or extra moving parts or oil use, all that sort of stuff is easy pickings for me, the best HP for weight is my goal, I can get the Suzukis for a good price, but they are the heaviest motor option in my selection, Honda, Merc, Yamaha, e-tec are all way too heavy for their output (for me)

[ahamay]

What's a DF90 worth ? Not including any special super deals etc, just the going rate approx ?

Cheers

[Steeler]

Hi Noel

How are you ?.

You know there is only one answer to this dilemma:D;) or Tohi's as a plan B

Good luck with it.

Steeler

[FNQCairns]

you talking about the TLDI ?

talked to one bloke and he loved his, I haven't seen many around though

after getting back in a couple of boats with old tech 2str on the back at Fraser a few weeks back I would never go back from the quiet/smooth/efficient/non smelly/easy starting 4 stroke ;)

old tech 2str means twice (nearly :P ) as much fuel to carry to go to the shelf

cheers Murf

I dunno about this as a solid statement I own a smokey outboard 90hp and i use more fuel certainly than the equivalent for cruising speed 4 stroke but not that much more. It's also about the setup and expectations in travel speed.

For instance the new 4st 70hp yamaha pushing a heavy 4.7m boat but not as heavy/large as my 6.2m will use near 12l/h at cruise, my old smokey yam 90 will use 15L-16 l/h at the same speed....not that i want to travel that slow unless I have to.

Very often the pitch needed to run a 4 stroke especially the new small capacity ones takes the equation beyond L/H as on the water unreliable compared to L/km travelled.

the equation is convoluted but not nearly as certain as those in 4 strokes corner may believe, still some can use nearly twice, especially if trolling heaps.

[wrxhoon]

The 90 yammies were a very good engine in their time. I had twin 90's in a big Frazer in 1990 , I done 400 hours with them without any issues other than little corrosion on the power trim pump housings that didn't effect the operation .
They are still the same engine , plenty of power and probably the smallest lightest 90 you can buy ( I think they actualy make about 85 hp ). The reason I had mine set up with them was because they were very skinny ( the boat had a pod ) and fitted ok .I was spinning 17" props and she was good for 40 mph on a good day with tail wind . I use to cruise on high 20's .
Very thirsty engines , just like all old school carby 2 strokers.
It wouldn't be my choice of engine today , I would go for a DI 2 stroke or a 4 stroke but sounds like they will suit your application and you should be able to buy them cheap.

[Dave_H]

Hi Noel

How are you ?.

You know there is only one answer to this dilemma:D;) or Tohi's as a plan B

Good luck with it.

Steeler

Noel, if you need to see what a 90hp Tohie runs like flick me a PM and I can meet you somewhere. I'm just on the northern side of RAAF Williamtown, however can travel if need be.

Regards,

Dave.

murf, sorry mate I cannot agree with you on that one, except of course if you go everywhere flat out then I will concede the carbied two stroke will easily demonstrate its ability to "down a yardglass in one go"! Apart from that I am more than happy with the consumption of my 90hp carbied two stroke v's my previous 60hp Evinrude on the same hull. They use much the same amount of fuel for a given trip bearing in mind the way I use the boat for inshore fishing and the occasional run to Broughton.

Dave

[murf]

I dunno about this as a solid statement I own a smokey outboard 90hp and i use more fuel certainly than the equivalent for cruising speed 4 stroke but not that much more. It's also about the setup and expectations in travel speed.

For instance the new 4st 70hp yamaha pushing a heavy 4.7m boat but not as heavy/large as my 6.2m will use near 12l/h at cruise, my old smokey yam 90 will use 15L-16 l/h at the same speed....not that i want to travel that slow unless I have to.

Very often the pitch needed to run a 4 stroke especially the new small capacity ones takes the equation beyond L/H as on the water unreliable compared to L/km travelled.

the equation is convoluted but not nearly as certain as those in 4 strokes corner may believe, still some can use nearly twice, especially if trolling heaps.

yeah agree totally thats why the :P

in what we do in our 4.7m boats around here it is that close to twice the fuel its not worth splitting hairs

but how long is a piece of string????????? there are so many variables and compromises to get whats right for you

$$$$$ is the only reason I would go back to 2str but I would be miserable with one (couldn't do it)

cheers Murf

[milligan]

Hi Noel, Like you I fish Mid north coast,and nigel. Mate I have had the 90 merc
for 7 years serviced twice and never missed a beat,we're spoilt a couple of miles and we get a feed.
you can't go wrong with Merc,I have 5.5 fibreglass ,launch and retrieve off beach,no sweat.
Cheers Lew.

[julian1]

Noel, i reckon the 90 Zukes are the way to go, the new 90's are a very grunty little unit and are 30% more efficient than old 90 4 stroke. if you distribute your weight with tanks and stuff during the rebuild it will hanle the weight no probs. You will be able to swing larger diamater props maybe even 4 bladers which will give you better rear end lift. If/when resale will also be much better not to mention your range and being able to carry less fuel

[Lovey80]

Noel, i reckon the 90 Zukes are the way to go, the new 90's are a very grunty little unit and are 30% more efficient than old 90 4 stroke. if you distribute your weight with tanks and stuff during the rebuild it will hanle the weight no probs. You will be able to swing larger diamater props maybe even 4 bladers which will give you better rear end lift. If/when resale will also be much better not to mention your range and being able to carry less fuel

Yep totally agree with Julian on this one. You would be mad to not put the biggest tanks available in while you have the chance. Doesn't mean you have to use the full capacity as long as the tank has baffles you will be right. Does the boat have pods on it? Would be great to see the boat as she is right now..... Any chance of a piccy???

I keep looking at these CC cats in the USA esp the GB at the 21foot mark. I can't justify it though.

[Noelm]

probably going for the 90HP Suzies for a couple of reasons, and tanks will be made to 145L each, that size will fit without any mods to the tank "compartment" that is built in from new, I am going to move the console a bit further forward and fit the batteries in the bottom, so a fair bit of weight will be moved up front anyway, the Suzukies are only about 12KG heavier that the old motors on it now, Lovey80, there is a short thread back a while ago that has some pictures as it was the day I got it home.

[Noelm]

here you go
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=166619

[Lovey80]

Thanks mate, I cant believe i missed that thread. Looks like a great project boat and you probably got it for a steal. Have a crack at Pods i say????

[Noelm]

yeah well, pods had entered the equation, but the transom is OK, and the motor well setup does have some advatages even though it takes up space, it offers a place for a bait tank, an extra seat, and a neat place for all the cables and stuff be go, so after the toss up, I decided on leaving it with wells, it has plenty of room anyway being a centre console, but with pods it would be huge, no doubt about it.

[Noelm]

OH, yes I did get it very cheap, after selling the old motors I am in front, so it owes me nothing at all, but there is a lot of messy work ahead.

[Moonlighter]

Hey Noel

Re the 90 Suzi's - something to think about if you go that way is the gaugues.

I was talking to my local Zuke service guy recently and he mentioned that Suzuki and Garmin now have a arrangement where instead of the std analogue Suzi gaugues you can opt for (direct from Suzuki) a Garmin GMI10 Multifunction display that will interface with the Suzis perfectly to diaplay all engine data etc - and they are talking very good prices for that option instead of the analogue gauge package. Might be worth considering.

I have also heard very good reports about the new Zuke 90 and very nearly went for one on my new Surtees, but eventually went for max hp and got a Zuke 115 instead. But was very tempted, I can tell you!

Something to also consider is the props. If you order a Zuki SS prop instead of the normal alloy one (crap IMO) when you buy the motor, you get it for around $800, whereas if you wait and get one later its more like $1200..... I didn't wait, bot the genuine Zuke SS prop with the motor and am very happy with its performance.

Cheers

ML

[Noelm]

yep, I have looked at the Garmin setup, pretty neat hey? something that is normally only offered on big HP motors, but I guess like everything it slowly filters down the range, the tiller steers will have it soon! I guess in some ways the "old fashioned" gauges have some appeal too, especially the modern white ones, but if I go down the Suzuki track I will opt for almost everything I can fit under my budget that will offer the best advantage. Kind of strange to be looking at two entirely different operating principals, 4 stoke EFI, and carby 2 stroke, I dont know how many times I have offered advice to people who have asked about which way to go, and now I am doing it myself, trying to compare two almost opposite motors. Alos of interst is how heavy all the "fuel injected" 2 strokes are these days, looked briefy at the Verado, but HP was not available, and the Opti is too heavy.

[julian1]

Hey Noel

Re the 90 Suzi's - something to think about if you go that way is the gaugues.

I was talking to my local Zuke service guy recently and he mentioned that Suzuki and Garmin now have a arrangement where instead of the std analogue Suzi gaugues you can opt for (direct from Suzuki) a Garmin GMI10 Multifunction display that will interface with the Suzis perfectly to diaplay all engine data etc - and they are talking very good prices for that option instead of the analogue gauge package. Might be worth considering.

I have also heard very good reports about the new Zuke 90 and very nearly went for one on my new Surtees, but eventually went for max hp and got a Zuke 115 instead. But was very tempted, I can tell you!

Something to also consider is the props. If you order a Zuki SS prop instead of the normal alloy one (crap IMO) when you buy the motor, you get it for around $800, whereas if you wait and get one later its more like $1200..... I didn't wait, bot the genuine Zuke SS prop with the motor and am very happy with its performance.

Cheers

ML


yep i went with the Garmin GMI 10 with my DF175's i only put x2 of them in which does cover it easily but you can put more in it comes down to $$$$ but 3 or 4 would be cool, the gauges are totally customisable and you can 4 different pages and up to x4 bits of info on each page. it will add $$$ over the anologue set up though but worth it especially if your going to fit fuel flow meters anyway.
trust me when i say the new DF90 is a great little engine they will be perfectly suited to that 560

[julian1]

and oh yeah add the stainless props from work go (cheaper) or even better delete the Aluminium ones totally (you will get $$ off ) and get the dealer to source SOLAS props at least that way you can choose a 4 blader if they do them for the new 90 yet ???

[Plumb-Ezy74]

Hi Noel what is the ideal weight you are trying to stay under, i am also interested in the idea of an 18fter and the possible power options and have considered the tohatsu 90 tldi i think that they are 157kg, it is just pie in the sky for me at this stage until i get back in to some dosh and sell my currant tub.
Cheers Scott

[julian1]

Hi Noel what is the ideal weight you are trying to stay under, i am also interested in the idea of an 18fter and the possible power options and have considered the tohatsu 90 tldi i think that they are 157kg, it is just pie in the sky for me at this stage until i get back in to some dosh and sell my currant tub.
Cheers Scott


Zuke DF90A 155kg L and 158kg XL ;)

[Dave_H]

Hi Noel what is the ideal weight you are trying to stay under, i am also interested in the idea of an 18fter and the possible power options and have considered the tohatsu 90 tldi i think that they are 157kg, it is just pie in the sky for me at this stage until i get back in to some dosh and sell my currant tub.
Cheers Scott

Tohatsu 90hp TLDI is 141kg and the 90hp carbied looper is 135kg with an alloy prop, the main reason behind my decision to go with them as weight was a serious issue for my installation.

Props are an easy and a cheap upgrade to a Merc Vengeance SS.

Noel, if you missed it in a previous post of mine if you'd like to see an M90A (or even talk about my experiences with my (now) 12 month old Tohie, flick me a PM, happy to oblige.

Regards,

Dave

[Lovey80]

Noelm, what sort of electronics are you going to run? I would think getting standard gauges in the dash and linking up your new electronics (Lowrance or Hummingbird) through the NMEA 2000 network will put all of that info you want on your one screen. Something Like the HDS 10??? All in front of you in one package and it keeps things neat and tidy.

Something to think about.

Cheers

Chris.