Boat fuel sabotage

[Lucky_Phill]

There have been a couple of threads here regarding E10, 98 and 95 fuels.

With the State Government mandating E10 as the unleaded fuel of the future, why are boat owners again being punished. I have found the difference between E10 and Premium 95 as much as 12 cents a litre.

When you have a large boat and fill up with 200 litres sometimes... that $24.00 is a massive difference.

Although I have read all the opinions on what is best and what you can and cannot use, my engine is designed for unleaded...simple.

Apart from the huge increases in boat and boat trailer registrations, we now cop a fuel rogering............>:( >:( >:(

I think it's time to have a Unleaded Fuel website, basically telling you where a servo is that will sell Standard Unleaded ?????

OR maybe start a thread here ????


Cheers phill

[Noelm]

I think the problem is not where to buy "proper" unleaded, more the point that it is not being produced anymore, it will run out very soon, that's what my local servo's have told me anyway, I tend to use the lowest octane premium I can get, the garage closest to me has always had fuel that was a bit dearer, but it was always good, never had water, dirt or anything else EVER, and the diesel is also dearer, but if I go to the cheap guy down the road, the diesel smells like turps, and the old cruiser runs like an old bus, black smoke and crap, but the deaer place it runs clean as a whistle.

[Flex]

I think we'll be relegated to using premium as boat users in the near future.
Which is a terrible shame, but thats the way it'll be I think...


I for one cannot understand the point of e10 fuel. Yes its 4cents cheaper at the bowser, but it yields a whopping 30% less energy per BTU than standard fuel. So at 10% blend ethanol is actually the same price per unit of energy than standard fuel, it can actually work out more expensive!
Not to mention the water issues it can have

People really are ignorant and often stupid in this world, They see 4cents cheaper and go all stir crazy and buy it not realising your no better off....

[robersl]

I have a 2008 yammie 2 stroke book says it is e10 compatable but i will not use it until i have too i would rather pay the extra for the unleaded or 95 ron even though we should not have too , i have seen and heard of 2 many problems arising from using E10 crap

shane

[Lucky_Phill]

Just wizzed off an email to my local member... I await reply

Hi Barbara,

Over the last two years the State Government has increased boat and boat trailer registration fees substantially, well and above CPI etc. In fact, with around 237,000 private vessel registrations in Queensland, the funds raised by the increases was about 33 million dollars. None of which I know about going back into the industry that it was taken from. PPV levy remained the same.

Now, I find that this Government are replacing Standard Unleaded fuel with E10. This government is well aware that the vast majority of engines on private vessels are NOT compatible with this E10 and have been forced to purchase the way more expensive Premium 95 or 98. The engines are not designed for this level of Octane either.

The difference in cost is as much as 12 cents per litre and with most family boats having a fuel tank in the region of 150 - 200 litres, the cost is about $24.00 dearer than Standard ULP. Multiply this out over a number of trips per year and this is NOT a minor cost, then add it to the huge increase in rego fees.

Question I suppose is , is this government trying to either send boaties and fishermen broke or encourage them to sell up and take up knitting ?

For far too long the fishermen, both commercial and recreational, having been copping bullets from this Government. Closures, Green Zones, Bag Limits, Fuel increases, rego increases, licencing increases and not to any CPI or other measure.

But this is not only about those that fish but, sailors, whale watchers, SCUBA divers, Volunteer Rescue Groups and those that simply love nothing better to spend a day on our beautiful waters in Moreton Bay and beyond.

The irony in all this, is that while this government reaps millions of dollars from fishermen etc, every time I speak to officers for Fisheries, Environment, QPWS, DERM and DEEDI, they say they have no funds to assist with policing, research and proper management. Where has all this money gone then ?

OH, I forgot, your Federal buddies are looking at closing down a minimum of 30% of Australian waters, just to appease the Green preferences. That is a bad deal for the people that vote for your party, those that don't and in fact 100% of Australians, because this action will kill off our very sustainable and necessary, commercial fishing industry. All for a few preference votes from a party that will NEVER govern, DO NOT have to justify their policies and DO NOT have to account for costing of those policies.

I would like a response to what this government will do in relation to the fuel issue and how it will compensate boat owners that IT is forcing to pay premium prices on an incompatible fuel while removing the option of the recognized fuel.

Regards

Phill

[wrxhoon]

At least for the next few years we will be able to buy premium without ethonol but who knows how long for ? My guess is in the not to distant future we will not be able to buy any petrol without ethonol !!!

[pig75]

All This E10 talk is a joke I rember when ULP firs came in everybody was complaining and saying it will destroy motors. Then BP trailed ethanol blended fuel and a big radio personalty ran a scare campaign about it destroying motors. Now E10 is here what happened? Yes I know some fuel lines break down with this fuel but they should be replaced anyway. I have been running E10 in my boat since I got it in 2005 30HP 2 stroke and never had a problem. Some times the fuel sits in the tank for over 4 months and I just top it up with some fresh fuel has never missed a beat
Just my 2 cents worth

[Flex]

I have been running E10 in my boat since I got it in 2005 30HP 2 stroke and never had a problem. Some times the fuel sits in the tank for over 4 months and I just top it up with some fresh fuel has never missed a beat
Just my 2 cents worth


Im not sure if your aware, but ethanol unlike straight unleaded is Hydrophilic. For your average car user its fine(aside actually being more expensive to run)

For boaters you're running a much higher risk of water accumulating in your fuel with ethanol.
Over a short period of time(say a week or more of sitting), ethanol will separate from the unleaded and settle on the bottom as its heavier, so the bottom few mm will be pure ethanol (which is degreaser by the way) Because ethanol is hydrophilic and boat fuel tanks are not sealed you will end up with alot of water in the bottom of your fuel tank. And where are most fuel pick-ups?... if you run a large boat you will notice alot more moisture i your filter, specially if you store your boat in humid climates...

This is a big problem if you own a larger boat with infloor tanks. If you dont believe me I've seen it first hand. fill a coke bottle up with e10, leave it for a week and see what happens....

[Chimo]

You would get a better idea if you filled an aluminium "coke" can and left that sit for a week or so.

Can somone try it and report back please !

Cheers
Chimo

[Seahorse]

Unleaded Is 91% Isnt It
Thats What I Use. Not The E10.
What About The 95% Or 98%

[SeaHunt]

Apart from the huge increases in boat and boat trailer registrations, we now cop a fuel rogering............>:( >:( >:(
Cheers phill

Don't forget the car rego, just got mine $693.45 for a 4 cylinder 4x4 ute.
That is up by over $120 over the last 2 years.
Over 20% in two years, don't think my wages went up by 20% over the last 2 years, or anything other than Govt charges for that matter..
We are all being ripped off by those that are there to serve us.:P

[bastard]

I thought ethanol could delaminate some fibreglass tanks does any body know if this is true.

[rowanda]

Unleaded Is 91% Isnt It
Thats What I Use. Not The E10.
What About The 95% Or 98%

there is no % in the rating of fuels.
ULP is 91 octane and thats what the 95 and 98 refer to, the octane rating. E10 will actually generally have an octane rating higher than 91, somewhere around 93, but definately a minimum of 91.
as for % ethanol, all regular 91 ULP will contain 10% ethanol very soon as that is what the govt has made mandatory. The 95 and 98 is up to the individual fuel compaines. I know the majors don't have ethanol in their premium fuels (Shell used to have 5% in their V-Power racing but have withdrawn the product) check the smaller companies though as I know United have ethanol in their premium and advertise it that way.
If you use E10 in your boat, you run and should accept all the risks, even the fuel companies warn not to use it in boats and aircraft. Sure, some engines will run on it, but its how it attracts water thats the issue.
I have tested what happens when a very small amount of water is added to the E10 and the result was the ethanol seperated from the fuel. Good luck running that through your engine.
So yes, unfortunately looks like we are going to have to get used to running premium in our boats. Another cost I know, but unless the govt does something we are screwed yet again

[rowanda]

oh and yes, shouldn't be used in plastic or fibreglass tanks

[top_deck69]

Hi Phil,

I'm not sure if it is at all servo's but I still go to Mobil at Murarrie (near Gateway ramp) they have normal unleaded (not sure for how long though)

Cheers
Ben

[Steeler]

Some Outdoor Power Equipment stores have a glass jar with Eth blended fuel to demonstrate to customers just how this fuel separates in there mowers and brushcutters etc, it does begin to separate after a week.

[testlab]

I think this has a lot of info...

http://www.fuel-testers.com/marine_boat_ethanol_problems.html

Good info for those thinking "I'll give it a go and see what happens" (summary... you're asking for trouble if you do).

[jason p]

ok yes using premium feul is a bit more expensive but im on the understanding that your engine will run better and cleaner than using standard ulp, therfor wouldnt this save you money in the future on maitenance??
i will only run premium in my boat at all times unless they dont have it.

oh and good onya luckyphill with your letter to the pollys mate. will they listen?? mayb mayb not but your in there face and thats 1 foot forward n1.

jp

[champion]

Good work Phill !!


How about an "online petition" letting them know how we feel ?

Just a thought.

[snodger 08]

Yeah i'm for the premium. I used the E10 in my mower, blower vac and weedeater. Until I did i had never had any trouble with these motors before, but after a couple of tanks of this stuff I had to get all 3 serviced. The guy at the shop said dont use E10 on any small engines, they will screw up very quickly.
So its E10 for the work car (thats all the fuel card will allow) and premium in the boat.

[pig75]

Im not sure if your aware, but ethanol unlike straight unleaded is Hydrophilic. For your average car user its fine(aside actually being more expensive to run)

For boaters you're running a much higher risk of water accumulating in your fuel with ethanol.
Over a short period of time(say a week or more of sitting), ethanol will separate from the unleaded and settle on the bottom as its heavier, so the bottom few mm will be pure ethanol (which is degreaser by the way) Because ethanol is hydrophilic and boat fuel tanks are not sealed you will end up with alot of water in the bottom of your fuel tank. And where are most fuel pick-ups?... if you run a large boat you will notice alot more moisture i your filter, specially if you store your boat in humid climates...

This is a big problem if you own a larger boat with infloor tanks. If you dont believe me I've seen it first hand. fill a coke bottle up with e10, leave it for a week and see what happens....

This is where our fuel is stored. It can sit for over 4 weeks with a 1000L in it and have never seen any separation in either the sight tube or filter

[Flex]

Yamaha website states do not use ethanol in pre 2008 outboards.. Similar to other manufacturers..

Club marine also recommends not using it

I've put it in a clear container and let sit for a week and I noticed a definite separation.

F&B magazine did a really indepth report on ethanol. Its what swayed me away from using it.

As I said if you have a small outboard using a tote tank. It may not be a huge issue due to regular fuel turn around. But bigger boats I'd steer clear of it

[pig75]

We get our fuel from BP depot no middle man and all the storage tanks are above ground
Has the fuel you tested been cut with anything?
Do the storage tanks have water in them? (Most under ground tanks have water in them)
I will test the fuel here one is a sealed container the other is vented I will see if there is any separation in one week

[wrxhoon]

oh and yes, shouldn't be used in plastic or fibreglass tanks


It will effect F/Glass but not plastic , most cars have plastic tanks these days.

Having said that I will never use the stuff in any of my cars, small motors or boats as long as I can buy petrol without the crap in it.

[Kevaclone]

All This E10 talk is a joke I rember when ULP firs came in everybody was complaining and saying it will destroy motors. Then BP trailed ethanol blended fuel and a big radio personalty ran a scare campaign about it destroying motors. Now E10 is here what happened? Yes I know some fuel lines break down with this fuel but they should be replaced anyway. I have been running E10 in my boat since I got it in 2005 30HP 2 stroke and never had a problem. Some times the fuel sits in the tank for over 4 months and I just top it up with some fresh fuel has never missed a beat
Just my 2 cents worth


For some cars it may just be a minor inconvenience if the fuel causes problems
in a boat it can be a major safety factor

[pig75]

Yamaha website states do not use ethanol in pre 2008 outboards.. Similar to other manufacturers..


The owners manual for my 2003 Suzuki says E10 is fine

[TimiBoy]

My new tub's Verados will be fine to run with E10, and there will be a couple of very decent fuel filters to get rid of that pesky water.

In any case I will run her on premium to get fuel life and because I see Ethanol fuel as political, hypocritical, and unsustainable.

Cheers,

Tim

[hodges4]

From what I remember reading there is no intention of getting rid of regular unleaded. There is a mandate that a minimum of XX% of all fuel sold must be ethanol unleaded. The major fuel companies are changing to ethanol but I believe the smaller outlets are going to continue selling regular. Problem will be finding them, the price they charge and hopeing they don't get up to any mischief by blending there own without displaying what it is. All ethanol blended fuel must be labelled such.

Have a look at this site it explais whats happening http://www.themotorreport.com.au/45859/queensland-to-mandate-ethanol-in-unleaded-fuel

Lucky_Phils idea of having a thread on here with outlets selling unleaded sounds great to me but it would need to be maintained as outlets that change over need to be deleted.

[death_ship]

its dearer to use e10 in my car as i get less km out of a tank by a long way. the 4cents isnt enough to offset the increased fuel consumption. A mate of mine lives in sweden and tells me E10 is around 20cents a litre cheaper than regular unleaded so that people use it, its not worth using here.

[Flex]

its dearer to use e10 in my car as i get less km out of a tank by a long way. the 4cents isnt enough to offset the increased fuel consumption. A mate of mine lives in sweden and tells me E10 is around 20cents a litre cheaper than regular unleaded so that people use it, its not worth using here.

Really cracks me up watching people like out 10 cars deep to bu petrol 4c or some cases 8c cheaper.

I honestly think they have no idea how little you save and not to mention is $2-3 worth the stress of waiting in-line for 20min stressed as hell?

Not to mention most walk out with a chocolate bar or 2 negating the savings in the first place...lol

[tunaticer]

I wonder how long it will be before outboards are converted to gas and large alloy cylinders are going to be a common sight in boats?
If the E10 movement goes ahead for all fuels it might be a forced industry I think.

Are there any Diesel outboards on the market apart from the Yanmar?

[Coontakinta]

I wonder how long it will be before outboards are converted to gas and large alloy cylinders are going to be a common sight in boats?


Heard its been tried unsuccessfully with inboards TT. Can u lubricate the gas in a similar manner to fuel?




Are there any Diesel outboards on the market apart from the Yanmar?


I recall a long time ago, seeing a 27hp diesel outboard. It was similar in size to 90hp and probably weighed the same, maybe more. Could u imagine a 150hp version:o not sure there would be too many hulls that could accommodate the weight

[rowanda]

I wonder how long it will be before outboards are converted to gas and large alloy cylinders are going to be a common sight in boats?
If the E10 movement goes ahead for all fuels it might be a forced industry I think.

Are there any Diesel outboards on the market apart from the Yanmar?

what, you mean like this one? Love the whistle coming from an outboard!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MUeWgGATSM

[thylacene]

If you have a late model injected outboard, then using premium higher octane fuels may even work to your advantage. Modern EFI "adjusts" the jetting dynamically in real time. In theory (and I have not had the patience to conduct extensive testing in a controlled manner), running more economically, in turn giving a better range.

I know from a vehicle perspective that my Subaru Outback was about 8% better on fuel running BP Ultimate 98 than on 91.

In times past we used to run BP100 in our racebikes, we manually jetted as we raced at various altitudes, but the exhaust temps were always lower than using Super. My Harley also runs cooler on Ultimate with increased fuel economy if you can call it economy out of a 2 litre engine with a hoon on board.

I don't have extensive research to back up my opinion, merely observations over several years in various circumstances and a bit of a mechanical bent (jetting & tuning etc).

I am assuming that the injected outboards have some form of oxygen sensor, throttle position, and airflow meter that provide the inputs to the ECU to allow calculation of appropriate air/fuel mixture, given the economy they get.

IF this is the configuration, then there is a case for the use of premium quality fuel.

Acknowledge that premium fuel also "goes off" but if you use the boat often enough, to no disadvantage.

Just my .02

Shame they don't have a 200hp Diesel outboard yet, then I could run the boat on the fuel card happily

Cheers

Thy

[pig75]

OK hear are some pictures of the E10 after a week. It has not separated yet. It is interesting how much evaporation has happened on the vented sample

[cormorant]

diesel outboard http://www.megoutboard.com/30L_vision.php


Not in production and no pricing I am aware of.
Biggest news is the enclosed cooling so no corrosion as it runs glycol around the motor and a heat exchanger.

Injection and turbo are off the shelf parts along with valvetrain , pistons etc so it is using well known existing parts .
Was using a upgraded mercury lower unit.


Vision 3.0L Specifications

Max RPM (WOT) - 4,000
Cylinder/Configuration - Inline 4-Cylinder, 16-Valve Direct Acting Double Overhead Cam (DOHC)
Displacement - 3.0 Liter
Fuel System - Common Rail
Fuel Requirements - Diesel
Charging System - Fully regulated belt-driven 50-amp (600 watt)
Starting - Electric 12 Volt
Exhaust System - Through Prop
Cooling System - Water-Cooled w/Thermostat & Pressure Control
Lubrication System - Integrated Dry Sump
Oil Capacity - 8 Quarts
Engine Control System - Digital
Gear Ratio - 1.62
Shaft Length - 20/25/30 inches
Counter Rotation - Available
Weight - 723 lbs (Pre-Production)
Certification - EPA Tier 2
Key Features:
Three Different Power Levels Available.
Similar Performance to 175hp, 225hp or 300hp Gasoline Four-stroke Engines (depending on power level).
Uses 6, 8 or 11 Gallons of Fuel Per Hour @ Rated Power (Depending on power level).
Production Starting Early 2009
Patent Pending

[TimiBoy]

Reckon that Megoutboard looks dead in the water. No press, no updates, for more than 2 years...

Sadly,

Tim

[cormorant]

Reckon that Megoutboard looks dead in the water. No press, no updates, for more than 2 years...

Sadly,

Tim


Not dead at all.


Has now passed EPA for full motor range and will be testing first short run production with forces and then 12 months approx retail units avaliable with parts backup etc. I hope they stay independent and we don't get screwed buy a distributer in the pacific region. Extended durability with glycol cooling with make em low maintainance as well. I hope they bother with full on board redundancy or any electrical componest.

Only competition in the forces who now have a two fuel policy ( avgas / diesel) is the etec multifuel.

[no eye deer]

On the subject of E10 and Premium- i live on Thursday Island,and we dont have Premium fuel. D'OH!! :)

Crap!

Mark

[pig75]

Hear are some pictures of the E10 after 2 weeks. It has not separated yet.

[rowanda]

the problem with e10 is not it sitting and seperating. It's what happens when a very small amount of water is added to it (then it seperates) I think you'll find it won't seperate for some time, but will be good to see your test as it progresses

[pig75]

Yes but all these people are saying that E10 will absorb water from the air. We have had a heap of rain and fog lately and the vented sample has not absorbed any water yet but is has evaporated quite a lot

[marty666]

there is no % in the rating of fuels.
ULP is 91 octane and thats what the 95 and 98 refer to, the octane rating. E10 will actually generally have an octane rating higher than 91, somewhere around 93, but definately a minimum of 91.
as for % ethanol, all regular 91 ULP will contain 10% ethanol very soon as that is what the govt has made mandatory. The 95 and 98 is up to the individual fuel compaines. I know the majors don't have ethanol in their premium fuels (Shell used to have 5% in their V-Power racing but have withdrawn the product) check the smaller companies though as I know United have ethanol in their premium and advertise it that way.
If you use E10 in your boat, you run and should accept all the risks, even the fuel companies warn not to use it in boats and aircraft. Sure, some engines will run on it, but its how it attracts water thats the issue.
I have tested what happens when a very small amount of water is added to the E10 and the result was the ethanol seperated from the fuel. Good luck running that through your engine.
So yes, unfortunately looks like we are going to have to get used to running premium in our boats. Another cost I know, but unless the govt does something we are screwed yet again

Funny you mention fuel companies say dont use e10 in fuel i would love to see where that is written???? my 2010 merc says i can use alcohol fuels safly both ethanol and methanol. E10 does not increase fuel consumption by 30% over normal unleaded that is e85, but it is funny with the launch of holdens new e85 car upon us there is all the e85 hype going around, v8 super cars have been using it for 2 years, it has been in Brazil for over 10 f1 cars are now running it, indy cars and also nascar are running it too. maybe some one should try contacting some boat yards in Brazil and see how they have been going for years on alcohol fuels????

[rowanda]

I know the local BP's have stickers on all the pumps saying E10 is not recommended for boats. This is also from their website.

BP recommends that outboard motors, high performance two stroke engines, motorcycles and lawnmowers use BP Unleaded 95. Check with the manufacturer to see if BP Unleaded 91 with ethanol can be used in these applications.

link here http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9019279&contentId=7038421

so use if you like, but I won't be in my boat

[pig75]

E 10 fuel test started 19-08-2010. Still no separation

[TimiBoy]

What would happen if you dropped a minute amount of water in there?

Cheers,

Tim

[cormorant]

If it has water in it and it is above the 3-5% that ethanol fuels can hold it will seperate. If it is below 3-5% saturation level to get it to seperate throw it on a vibrating table or agitate it . The agitation will break the bond and it will seperate.


Depending on the amount of water in solution adding water may cause more than the drop of water you put in seperate but otherwise it will just go into solution.

A change in temperature , air pressure etc can all lead to water coming out of solution.

When water does come out of solution it may also cause the ethanol to do the same and then real issues start where teh water can grow acidic bacteria and cause corrosion of tanks and teh pure ethanol can eat away plastic and FG tanks


Ethanol in diesel is a whole different isue and we can expect all sorts of issues with that one.

[jason p]

Funny you mention fuel companies say dont use e10 in fuel i would love to see where that is written???? my 2010 merc says i can use alcohol fuels safly both ethanol and methanol. E10 does not increase fuel consumption by 30% over normal unleaded that is e85, but it is funny with the launch of holdens new e85 car upon us there is all the e85 hype going around, v8 super cars have been using it for 2 years, it has been in Brazil for over 10 f1 cars are now running it, indy cars and also nascar are running it too. maybe some one should try contacting some boat yards in Brazil and see how they have been going for years on alcohol fuels????


some people seem to think that if they use e10 in racing cars well then it must be ok but if they all use it then theres no disadvantages of 1 getting more k/l, these engines are rebuilt numerous times, so its not like these motors have been running on e10 for years more like a race or 2, sure they will run on it but you dont get to see long term effects on a racing car as you will on a civilian car that has done 100000+ ks.

jp

[pig75]

Ok i have put 5ml of water in 500ml of E10.
After i took the picture i shook the sample up. Lets see what happens with this one

[pig75]

Ok here are some more pic. The orinagle fuel has not separated in ether sealed or unsealed containers
The fuel with the water added has changed the water is turning a yellowish colour

[thylacene]

Just a thought, once you are happy with the results and consider the experiment complete, you may like to try adding 30ml of methylated spirits to the sample you have added water to.

This is something that I have done for years as a roadside resolution to water in fuel, as the metho seems to "absorb" the water and the resulting solution becoming more palatable to the engine, at a minimum, I understand that the metho changes the surface tension allowing the fluid through the jets in the carbs when there is water accumulated in the fuel bowls.

You have everyone's attention already, and if its not too much trouble, it might generate some more discussion at a minimum.

Cheers

Thy

[Lucky_Phill]

Page 26 of todays ( Brisbane ) Courier Mail newspaper.

" Ethanol fuel backdown ".

Andrew Fraser said the Govts 5% mandate will be delayed for 12 months.

166 Service stations across the State have already stopped selling regular unleaded.

You really have to read the whole thing... another stuff up.

" The govt has already invested $7.3 million to assist fuel retailers with the transition ".... WHAT.............. giving all those millions to an industry that already rips off the very taxpayers that will pay for this stuff up.

Here is the link to yesterdays item, and i will find todays.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/queensland-ethanol-petrol-mandate-suspended/story-e6freono-1225944661255


LP.

[cormorant]

Just a thought, once you are happy with the results and consider the experiment complete, you may like to try adding 30ml of methylated spirits to the sample you have added water to.

This is something that I have done for years as a roadside resolution to water in fuel, as the metho seems to "absorb" the water and the resulting solution becoming more palatable to the engine, at a minimum, I understand that the metho changes the surface tension allowing the fluid through the jets in the carbs when there is water accumulated in the fuel bowls.

You have everyone's attention already, and if its not too much trouble, it might generate some more discussion at a minimum.

Cheers

Thy


Metho is effectively ( close to) just ethanol. If the metho is dry to start with it should take up some water in the fuel. In the bottom of a tank it will not solve the issue when it gets acidic or sludgy but may place some water in a tank back into solution. It may help dissolve some varnish. As with everything a small dose can't do much harm but it can only absorb a small amount of water and can't hold it for long so it may well drop it out of solution if not used. Can't really shake up , aggitate a underfloor tank easilly but have used it after emptying a portable tank to get last bits of water out by flushing with metho/ alcohol. Depends just how low down on a tank the fuel outlet is as some tanks you can have many litres of water and it won't pick up others suck it straight up and deposit it in the carby bowl.