Help! Advice Needed On V-sea Problem

[dan12345]

HI all i have a 4.74 seafarer v -sea center console (factory made)85 model.
it has a 90etec on the back the issue im having is that the boat is always landing down to the port side of the hull, i have tried to reposition the weight all to the starboard but this seems to have little affect! :'( even if its just a small swell other boat wash as soon as its on the plane always the same issue its driving me nuts:( is it possible that prop tourqe is causing this or is there somthing elese i should be looking at?i am lost as to what to do? any one elese has this issue with them any advice would be greatly appreciated
cheers dan

[Jarrah Jack]

Has the boat always done it...Did it do it with the previous motor?

[dan12345]

Has the boat always done it...Did it do it with the previous motor?
mate it has always done it since i have owned, it also had the same engine since ive owned it as well, so not sure if its just my boat or do all the 474 seafarers do a similar thing?

[Vitamin Sea]

mate it has always done it since i have owned, it also had the same engine since ive owned it as well, so not sure if its just my boat or do all the 474 seafarers do a similar thing?


Mate, it may be a couple of things, could have water trapped in the hull, worth investigating, could have been laid up heavier with glass on the port side from the factory ( had a old Sportsmancraft that suffered from that, wet pig of a thing)

Are you sure you don't have to much on board weight on that side? batteries, bait tanks. fuel, etc? Silly question but is the motor fitted up in the centre?

Doubt very much anything to do with prop torque.

The V-Sea is a fine small boat, punch well above their weight, should not be doing what you are describing.

Hope this assists in some way

Cheers

VS

[dan12345]

hi vs. mate im pretty sure its not a weight distribution thing, i tried taking everything out of the boat except for the two rear fuel tanks,an the battery is located under the center console other than that just a lifjacket an my self, as for the engine being in the center,um it looks center, ill measure it tomorrow an see how close it is.any ideas on how id go about checking the hull for trapped water?
it only has one small inspection port in the center console?
thanks for the help
dan




Mate, it may be a couple of things, could have water trapped in the hull, worth investigating, could have been laid up heavier with glass on the port side from the factory ( had a old Sportsmancraft that suffered from that, wet pig of a thing)

Are you sure you don't have to much on board weight on that side? batteries, bait tanks. fuel, etc? Silly question but is the motor fitted up in the centre?

Doubt very much anything to do with prop torque.

The V-Sea is a fine small boat, punch well above their weight, should not be doing what you are describing.

Hope this assists in some way

Cheers

VS

[FNQCairns]

if the engine hard to turn in any one particular direction at the speeds you land on the port side? if yes the hull is trying to corkscrew at times when there is less keel in the water. Of coarse you cannot travel fast enough to actually complete this corkscrew at anything considered typical driving of a wave but that doesn't mean the hull will not start the process wherever possible.

Check that the engine leg is at a true right angle, also check that the trim tab at these speeds is not forcing you to compensate at the helm, understand that all boat drivers when travelling in a crosswind will compensate by pointing their boats into the wind to maintain a straight course, this in turn dips the windward side of the hull down as the engine is at all times pointing somewhat downwind...even if at a glance behind a person cannot recognise this....it's basic physics.

With experience on the boat in these rough water crosswind conditions a person will do a quick flick of the steering wheel toward down wind when leaving a wave to ensure the hull lands as square as possible.

Lastly more trim out and travel a little slower can help to maintain a more square hull attitude of a wave, sometimes a wave will just disappear from underneath the boat before the driver can react and all boats can then land hard on the upwind side.

Every now and then I stuff up once or twice in the 1.5h trip back from the reef in the rough and rattle my fillings but the other 1000+ waves I usually get it right or close enough.

Just ask a seasoned tiller steer tinny driver, they are the master boat drivers, a person who cuts their teeth in one of these can drive anything well....except possibly a cat.

[dan12345]

FNQ u might be onto somthing here, the boat is easier to steer to one side at speeds, so i will check for the leg being square tomorrow. im not sure i follow u on the trim tab bit tho? what should i be looking for in relation to it bent maybe?
as for the driver thing ive tried all trim positions speeds an combinatins u can lol still the same effect
thanks for the info i appreciate it


if the engine hard to turn in any one particular direction at the speeds you land on the port side? if yes the hull is trying to corkscrew at times when there is less keel in the water. Of coarse you cannot travel fast enough to actually complete this corkscrew at anything considered typical driving of a wave but that doesn't mean the hull will not start the process wherever possible.

Check that the engine leg is at a true right angle, also check that the trim tab at these speeds is not forcing you to compensate at the helm, understand that all boat drivers when travelling in a crosswind will compensate by pointing their boats into the wind to maintain a straight course, this in turn dips the windward side of the hull down as the engine is at all times pointing somewhat downwind...even if at a glance behind a person cannot recognise this....it's basic physics.

With experience on the boat in these rough water crosswind conditions a person will do a quick flick of the steering wheel toward down wind when leaving a wave to ensure the hull lands as square as possible.

Lastly more trim out and travel a little slower can help to maintain a more level hull attitude of a wave, sometimes a wave will just disappear from underneath the boat before the driver can react and all boats can then land hard on the upwind side.

Every now and then I stuff once or twice in the 1.5h trip back from the reef in the rough and rattle my fillings but the other 1000+ waves I usually get it right or close enough.

Just ask a seasoned tiller steer tinny driver they are the master boat drivers a person who cuts their teeth in one of these can drive anything well....except possibly a cat.

[Angla]

The trim tab spoken about could be the one just behind the prop. I believe it should be off centre a little to compensate the prop torque twist thingy that happens.

Cheers
Chris

[Getout]

Prop torque for sure!

[dan12345]

Prop torque for sure!
can i ask why u think it is prop torque an is there anything i can do to reduce this,

[STUIE63]

I am with FNQ I think it is the trim tab is the problem it just needs adjusting

[dan12345]

I am with FNQ I think it is the trim tab is the problem it just needs adjusting


thanks mate i just had a look an the trim tab has a set of numbers from 1to 6 on it in relation to how far its been turned its currently on 2.5 so im assuming i just turn it up to a higher number bit by bit an see if that helps i guess:)

[STUIE63]

they work the opposite way that you think . I reckon take a spanner with you to a nice sandbar somewhere that you can adjust it and try it out . the motor should not be harder to turn one way or the other
Stuie

[dan12345]

ok have checked the engine for positioning its definetly square to the hull, adjusted the tab a little, so ill test it out tomorrow an see how it all goes,
oh an i bought a new stainless prop;D thanks tax man

[Micadogs]

Hi Dan, I owned one of these little gems for a few years. Mine had a 70HP yamaha on the back and never suffered anything like what you are experiencing. It was always dead straight even if i got airborne it would land dead centre. Even square to the wind with canopy up. I would also suggest it is prop torque. I'm pretty sure they were only rated to 70HP so the 90HP may be too heavy and powerful and you are getting prop torque. If it is pulling to the left then you want to turn the trim tab to the right to counteract. Have you got one of those aftermarket fins on the engine cav plate? If so, remove it and see if that has any affect, sometimes these are sqaure and cause issues. Also, is the motor high enough? a cav plate just under the surface can cause these issues? Cav plate should sit on top of the water when planning, not under it, 1/2 - 1inch can make the world of difference i.e (one hole). Water in the hull is also another possibility. To check you will need drill a hole, for the VC, go into the bilge area and drill the whole through there into the port side. To seal the whole, just buy a complete bung setup and approx $3-$4 bucks and put that there, if it is water then you have a way to get it all the time and propoerly sealed.

You definately shouldn't be having these problems, they are a great ride and ride straight and true in any sea conditions.

regards Adam

[ronmac]

they are rated to 100hp. but as micadogs ( Adam ) said 70hp is a good match up as the hull is not designed for speed . cheers ron.

[White Pointer]

HI all i have a 4.74 seafarer v -sea center console (factory made)85 model.
it has a 90etec on the back the issue im having is that the boat is always landing down to the port side of the hull, i have tried to reposition the weight all to the starboard but this seems to have little affect! :'( even if its just a small swell other boat wash as soon as its on the plane always the same issue its driving me nuts:( is it possible that prop tourqe is causing this or is there somthing elese i should be looking at?i am lost as to what to do? any one elese has this issue with them any advice would be greatly appreciated
cheers dan

G'day,

You say "landing". Does this mean that in a flat sea it steers OK or are you compensating by always gently steering to starboard? The landing may be a consequence of the sea you regularly encounter. Try turning 90 degrees to the prevailing sea (i.e. take it on the other side) and see if it comes down biasing the starboard side. If it doesn't you may have a problem.

If it doesn't you may just need to back off a bit or trim the boat differently.

Have you taken you hand off the wheel to see where the boat goes of its own accord?

It might be worthwhile checking out the alignment of the hull along the keel, each of the strakes and the chines. It may be also worthwhile checking out the alignment of the bias of the engine to the hull. This is the small adjustable keel on the outboard.

Let us know what you find.

Regards,

White Pointer

[Shayne_Blue]

I had a V Sea for years. it had a 1988 90hp V4 Johnson on the back. The mid 70s hulls were rated to 115hp. The 90hp was aperfect match, a mate had a 70 and it went like a slug. The newer notors are much better but 90hp is 90hp and it wouldn't be over powered and my motor would have been heavier. They made thousands of them so I wouldn't think over glassing on one side would be an issue. The glass work is never perfect, I have a 6.0 Victory now and the glass thickness is slightly different on each side as I discovered fitting trim tabs. It would take an awful lot of glass to upset the balance of a hull compared to fuel tanks and batteries.

My boat always landed flat and was a pleasure to drive at sea, it was often in the air trying to keep up with my brothers 20ft Seafarer veddette.

The stringers in the hull have holes drilled in them to allow water to go back tot the centre of the vee. If you want to see if there is water in the hull weight the boat so is is resonably balanced on the trailer. Lift he front of the trailer so the rear is on the ground, lower the front quickly to the ground and you will here the water surge to the front if there is anything in there. It is easier than drilling holes in the floor. It is also a good way of getting slimies out from the floor cavity if you loose one up there by putting water in the hull.

Check the trim tab on the motor as other have suggested, my boats are set slightly starboard of centre. The steering should be light and not pulling either way at any speed. I did upsize my push pull steering when I upgraded the motor, the original mid 70s one was a bit small.

Shayne

[dan12345]

hi adam no i dont have one of thoses fin things on my cav plate.im pretty sure its up high enough ill post some pics an see what u all think.mines rated to take a 90hp so im led to belive. to explain whats happening better would be to say that if i was to get the nose airborne or launch off some swell the boat will roll in the air an always land on the port side no matter the sea wind or direction i hit it if that makes senses




Hi Dan, I owned one of these little gems for a few years. Mine had a 70HP yamaha on the back and never suffered anything like what you are experiencing. It was always dead straight even if i got airborne it would land dead centre. Even square to the wind with canopy up. I would also suggest it is prop torque. I'm pretty sure they were only rated to 70HP so the 90HP may be too heavy and powerful and you are getting prop torque. If it is pulling to the left then you want to turn the trim tab to the right to counteract. Have you got one of those aftermarket fins on the engine cav plate? If so, remove it and see if that has any affect, sometimes these are sqaure and cause issues. Also, is the motor high enough? a cav plate just under the surface can cause these issues? Cav plate should sit on top of the water when planning, not under it, 1/2 - 1inch can make the world of difference i.e (one hole). Water in the hull is also another possibility. To check you will need drill a hole, for the VC, go into the bilge area and drill the whole through there into the port side. To seal the whole, just buy a complete bung setup and approx $3-$4 bucks and put that there, if it is water then you have a way to get it all the time and propoerly sealed.

You definately shouldn't be having these problems, they are a great ride and ride straight and true in any sea conditions.

regards Adam

[dan12345]

I had a V Sea for years. it had a 1988 90hp V4
Check the trim tab on the motor as other have suggested, my boats are set slightly starboard of centre. The steering should be light and not pulling either way at any speed. I did upsize my push pull steering when I upgraded the motor, the original mid 70s one was a bit small.

Shayne

ok when u all say adjust the trim tab on the motor.when im looking from behind the motor do i turn the tab so the back of the tab goes to thr right or turn it to the left

[dan12345]

G'day,

You say "landing". Does this mean that in a flat sea it steers OK or are you compensating by always gently steering to starboard? The landing may be a consequence of the sea you regularly encounter. Try turning 90 degrees to the prevailing sea (i.e. take it on the other side) and see if it comes down biasing the starboard side. If it doesn't you may have a problem.

If it doesn't you may just need to back off a bit or trim the boat differently.

Have you taken you hand off the wheel to see where the boat goes of its own accord?

It might be worthwhile checking out the alignment of the hull along the keel, each of the strakes and the chines. It may be also worthwhile checking out the alignment of the bias of the engine to the hull. This is the small adjustable keel on the outboard.

Let us know what you find.

Regards,

White Pointer
i think im always compensating by steering to the starboard a little im going to go give it a run today to see what i can work out i will let u know

[Noelm]

when you adjust the tab, just sit down and think about it for a second, you need to remember you are steering the motor, not the boat, just do it a bit at a time, and test for best performance at you normal cruise and trim, prop torque is almost impossible to fix without trim tabs. Moving weight around will reqire a huge amount of weight to be moved.

[dan12345]

ok took the boat out today,turned the trim tab further around in the same direction nope no difference prob worse, then turned it back to the complete opposite side;D bingo! launched it off a few swells faster than normal just to test it seems all good trimmed up or down its heaps better its like a new hull under my feet it seems so much softer riding, i think i know why people love their v seas now, agter testing it out the front i took it up the river to test out the new prop, well i now get 5200rpm as opposed to the old 4900rpm an im getting 33.9knts up from 31 so pretty happy there as well, now the only issue is the steering super hard under full throttle to the port nice an easy to the starboard
maybe just the push pull steering might need to upgrade to hydrulic what do u guys reckon, thanks to all for the advice so far

[Noelm]

thats the way, hydraulic steering is the way to go, no question about it, the side mount would suit a Vsea very well and is cheap and easy to install yourself. The front mount is dearer and arguably better though.

[dan12345]

thats the way, hydraulic steering is the way to go, no question about it, the side mount would suit a Vsea very well and is cheap and easy to install yourself. The front mount is dearer and arguably better though.

thanks nolem yeah im looking at side mount as room isnt really an isuue in my splashwell

[STUIE63]

I think if it is hard one way and not the other a bit more adjusting on the trim tab is needed

[Micadogs]

G'Day, it could be just as simple as the push pull steering having corrosion in one side worse than the other. I had push pull on my v-sea (70HP) and it was really lite to steer. Hydraulic is the way to go, but expensive. Replacing existing cables is relatively easy and cheap. Also as Stuie suggested it may be a little more adjustment of trim tab. To test get to approx 4000 RPM, and set wheel dead straight. Holding a little pressure on the wheel (as it is push pull it can suddenly move) see if the boat is starting to pull to one side. If you are holding the wheel as you normally do, your force is holding it straight, litely (a couple of fingers on top), you can feel what the motor is doing. If this is ok, then suggest you will need to replace cable or go to hydraulic. regards Adam

[onerabbit]

It really depends how much you love your boat, and how long you intend to keep it.

My old girl is the 5.25 model & about the same vintage....

She slopped around when I first owned her, but a set of wings on the old Yam 90 fixed that,
the new Merc 115 didn't need them.

As far as the steering is concerned, fitting the hydraulics was one of the best things I ever did for her,
I would NEVER go back to cables now.

Muzz

[dan12345]

I think if it is hard one way and not the other a bit more adjusting on the trim tab is needed
stuie i went out again today fro more testing, if i set it in the center no good,if i move it toward the starboard side no good but if i turn it full to the port it seems to stop the rolling effect that im trying to eliminate,only down side is hard steering to the port but nice an easy to starboard.

[dan12345]

[quote=Micadogs;1191699]G'Day, it could be just as simple as the push pull steering having corrosion in one side worse than the other.

i dont think its corrosian because when im not moving its about the same both ways even when moving slowly, ill double check

[dan12345]

heres some pics of engine ect motor is trimed down all the way. do u think its to low?

[wiz]

try it up another hole won't hurt. Might as well find out now while you are mucking around with it.

[FNQCairns]

+1

even a lttle higher again might be worth a test but remember just because it might ventilate every now and then that doesn't necessarily mean it is strictly too high. It's too high when you cannot handle the amount and more importantly when it ventilates, this place will be different for different people.

[dan12345]

ok up a hole it goes an then ill see how it is then

[Wayne_Red]

Keep a good amount trim out at full trottle it gets the nose up and lightens the steering, if you have too much trim in they get heavy on the steering and even with the engine tab set right the still pull to one side. Just play with your trim in flat water at full throttle and you will feel the nose lift and steering lighten to find the boats sweet spot. The motor might look as if it is trimmed out excessively when you driving but its not really, anything around 15' loves trim out when driving them hard IMO
With a 90 etec on a 15 footer it has plenty of grunt to have a lot of trim out for most of your running, especially on a following sea, trim it right out and hammer it
Not sure about WOT revs of an etec but 5200 sounds a bit low to me? You want to just check before you put scratches on that tax prop.
Wayne

[Shayne_Blue]

I would have thought your tab would have gone to starboard (right) but if if works to the left (port) as you photo shows, and it works, that'a what you want. The tab difinietly affects the steering in one direction so keep adjusting until it works best.

I recently upgraded my motor on the Victory from 150 Merc with push pull steering to a 200 four stroke yammy with hydraulic steering. I would swap the hydraulic steering now but the push pull wasn't that bad. My old V Sea, as I said in my previous post was good on the steering but I did upsize with the 90hp, I can't remember what hp it was rated at but it was well over 90hp. I would think the hydraulic might be an overkill on a small boat but it's very nice if you want to spend the bucks. Mine cost me $1450 for the victory in March, it will cost you at least a few hundred for an upgraded push pull helm and cable. I also fitted QL tabs and they were the best thing I have put on my boat i would never have a big boat again without them, but again, probably an overkill for a smaller boat.

I find the cav plate 20mm above the keel is a good place to start for motor height. Measure it with the cav plate parrallel with the keel.

Shayne

[Fed]

i went out again today fro more testing, if i set it in the center no good,if i move it toward the starboard side no good but if i turn it full to the port it seems to stop the rolling effect that im trying to eliminate,only down side is hard steering to the port but nice an easy to starboard.
When you say 'move it towards the starboard side' do you mean move the trailing edge of the fin towards the starboard side. (Clockwise when viewed from below)?
I think your boat will go even better once you dial it in, your numbers are much the same as mine with an old tech 90HP pushing a 5.2M Viking (the next size up from yours).
Love to know the results if you raise it up a hole.

[dan12345]

[quote=Fed;1191883]When you say 'move it towards the starboard side' do you mean move the trailing edge of the fin towards the starboard side. (Clockwise when viewed from below)?

yeah when i say move to starboard im talking the trailing edege of the fin when viewed from behind the engine. do u think my engine figures are allright?
as far as i know my e tec was ment to rev between 5200 to 5500.

[dan12345]

any of u fellas up on the sunshine coast? going to head out again on monday for another trial run

[dan12345]

ok fellas i went up another hole as suggested ,has made a bit of difference so overall im pretty happy with how its all going,thanks everyone for ur help i this thread