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sea-rash
18-07-2010, 11:09 AM
Hi all

I have been doing some reading on the DPI website about the closures this year. I am taking a boat north during this time as part of a bigger expedition. I am aware of the dates, boundaries and types of fish covered. What I cannot work out with any certainty is;

1. What happens if I catch fish prior to the closure or from outside the closed region on the way North and still have them in my posession durin the closure?

2. How is it determined what you are actually fishing for. I am more than happy to sportsfish during the closures but if you are float baiting for spanish or chucking poppers for trevally on the reef edges around Musgrave it is not impossible to catch a fin fish.

I hope you understand my question. I am not the type to push things in realtion to the law particualrly when it is somebody elses boat I am taking North. Any help would be appreciated.

Regards

Rob

trymyluck
18-07-2010, 11:20 AM
The fisheries guy couldn't answer those questions last year so don't hold your breath for a answer.

krazyfisher
18-07-2010, 01:56 PM
1. i would think you would be in trouble so why push your luck

2.??? i think they will mostly look at what you haev in the esky

boney-leg
18-07-2010, 11:07 PM
1. What happens if I catch fish prior to the closure or from outside the closed region on the way North and still have them in my posession durin the closure?




Got this from part 3 in http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/Search/isysquery/aa54c279-9a68-4680-b413-cc457e50461f/1/doc/FisherR08.pdf#xml=http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/Search/isysquery/aa54c279-9a68-4680-b413-cc457e50461f/1/hilite/ .

Surprisingly it says:

Prohibited activities and regulated periods
(1) A regulated person must not in the regulated waters—
(a) take a regulated coral reef fin fish in a regulated period;
or
(b) possess a regulated coral reef fin fish in a regulated
period, whether or not the fish have been taken in the
waters.
(2) For subsection (1), each of the following periods is a regulated
period—
(a) from 15 October 2009 to 19 October 2009;
(b) from 14 November 2009 to 18 November 2009;

and the word possess means not in your freezer as well although I seriously doubt they will be checking to see if anyone has a frozen coral trout in the freezer during the closure. If they did I think we'd all go down on that one ;)

Another poorly worded law I guess ... a bit like the crab bait discussion :-X

Almako
22-07-2010, 08:06 AM
I think it would be fair to say that 'possess a regulated coral reef fin fish' would mean. Possesion of a reef fin fish within a reasonable location that a reef fin fish could have been caught. I.e. possesion on a boat, at the boat ramp, at a seaside camp ground etc. Not, at home in the freezer.
And remember the law is; "It is beyond any reasonable doubt". And in most cases it's plain old common sense.

So why even push your luck. Periods of closure are for periods of spawing, which help for a better catch next year. So i'd stay well away from the reef to give them a chance to spawn for next season.

Jo Blow

FNQCairns
22-07-2010, 08:52 AM
It's a strange set of regulations, sort of a fluffy feel good way for those in management to align with their fundamental side, never can the laws 'benefit' ever be measured, so anglers need to play the dancing bear and watch their back against this type of political fishery management fundamentalism.

The reef has remained grossly under fished since before any human walked the continent but hey it's all about political power and backed up with punitive measures just like any despotic country one can mention.

These laws can never be tested under the reality of our system so if you would like to not have your basic freedom usurped on these 'bad law days' and take the risk, be well conversant on all species that are excluded from the regulation and then under any exam these are the only fish you are interested in seeing/catching/care about..fullstop!.

Yes you can catch trout/reefies on poppers etc.

In regards to having pre caught fish or species in possession at a time that the law may threaten you, it's ALL about the best imagined story fishery/police/GBRMPA can make up at the time to fit you up, if you feel lucky or are a believer that those who can morally uphold unjust laws through nothing higher than dogma but also hold some magical higher value set....then just go for it, regardless you will be just 1 of many who will worry just the same.

googarra
22-07-2010, 10:05 AM
My interpretation of the Act

Keywords in (1) - "in the regulated waters" so everything else that follows in the section relates to being in or near the waters. This does not include at home, at the caravan park, down the road, or anywhere else except "regulated waters, so that is the only place you can commit the offence (unless you admit to it on tape to investigators at another place, that you were there with the fish).

(a) and (b) create the offence "take" or "possess"

"take" - loosely means that you do not immediately and safely release the fish back into the water when caught.

Why the Legislators created/used 'take' as well as the age old element of 'possession', was to cover the act somewhat sensibly. You would be in posssession of a no take fish as soon as you catch it on your line, and as soon as you see it coming up, you would be, and are, in possession of it. Everyone that fished would be commiting an offence if the sections simply used 'possession' of a fish.

"Possession" comes from the Criminal Code and there has been much case law on the interpretation but it boils down to "knowledge and control"

You have to know what you have, and have some control over it, and this includes any place whatsoever. You next door neighbours freezer, buried in the back yard, anywhere whatsoever as long as it is Qld, you know about it, and you can do something with it.

To answer the question-

1 - Yes can can have possession of a Coral fin reef fish during the closures. However, it must not be in or near a regulated water or you committ an offence.

2 - You can fish for other fish but you cannot take a coral reef fin fish, if you catch one, you must immediately release it, or you commit the offence of taking it.

seahound
22-07-2010, 11:25 AM
Hey sea rash.
Firstly - I suggest you grab a lemonade...below is the legal based answer to your question. Theres nothing dodgy in it. This is the legislation that defends or prosecutes punters in possession of Coral Reefies in the 'regulated area" during the "regulated period".

With respect to the extract of the legislation posted by boney-leg: the words in the this extract need to need to be considered in the context of this part (the Coral reef closure). Like a statement taken out of context, this can lead to mis-interpretation.

Dont be confused with 'possession' regarding bag/size/format regulations - Fish Regs 2008 Chapter 3 Section 128 to 175 and associated mentioned Schedules.
This requirement is applied to QLD jurisdiction (land/water) as most regs are unless otherwise stated. See Fish Act Part 1 Section 10 & 11 for the jurisdiction of QLD Fish legislation.

Anyhow, back to the issue:
So from Fish Regs 2008 Chapter 2, Part 5 Division 4 SubDivision 1 as correctly quoted by boney-leg:
Section 47 Prohibited activities and regulated periods
(1) A regulated person must not in the regulated waters—
a) take coral reefies
b) possess coral reefies

We're all regulated persons (Fish Act Section 10)
So where are the regulated waters?
See Section 46 or more specifically and again from from Fish Regs 2008


Section 403 Fishery area - L2 & L3
The fishery area consists of all tidal waters within the
following boundary—
• from the northern tip of Cape York along latitude 10º41'
south, to longitude 145º east
• to latitude 13º south, longitude 145º east
• to latitude 15º south, longitude 146º east
• to latitude 17º30' south, longitude 147º east
• to latitude 21º south, longitude 152º55' east
• to latitude 24º30' south, longitude 154º east
• along latitude 24º30' south to the mainland shore
• along the shore to the northern tip of Cape York at
latitude 10º41' south.

This fishery area is again mentioned in the Coral Reef Plan 2003. See Sections 14(a) and 99. So this is the area that the Reef closures apply to.

Ok...again gotta read the words: Tidal Waters...not at home in the freezer...if "home' is not on/in tidal waters thats is, which can be the case.
Surely you dont think DPI&F and Capt Blighs troops are that draconcian? The regulation wouldnt get passed parliament if this were the case.

There is also some exceptions for "possessing' reefies in regulated waters during the regulated period

From Fish Regs 2008 again
Chapter 2 Part 5 Division 4 Sub-division 2
Exceptions for division 4
Section 48 & 49...

48 Application of sdiv 2
This subdivision applies despite section 47.
49 Recreational fishing
A regulated person may, in the regulated waters, possess, on a boat, a regulated coral reef fin fish if—
(a) the fish has not been taken in the waters in contravention of section 47(1)(a); and
(b) either of the following apply—
(i) the person is in possession of the fish for the purpose of consumption on the boat and the boat is not a commercial fishing boat and does not have a fishing line, spear or spear gun on board;
(ii) the boat is being used for a charter fishing trip that has been conducted for an uninterrupted period of at least 24 hours.


The and is VERY important...

Some (??) of the S/E QLD Fisheries Officers may not be too familiar with this sort of thing as its out of their patch and the 'regulated waters'...but most nth of Hervey Bay will (??).

The up shot of this, according to the legislation, is you can take/possess Coral Reefies during the regulated period south of 24º 30'...about the north side of Baffle Creek north of Bundy...outside of the regulated waters!!

In relation to fishing during in the closed/regulated waters, there is an exemption that permits this:

This comes from the Fish Act 1994 which is the over-arching instrument. The Regs and Reef Plan are sub-ordinate. The Act makes provisions for the Regs/Plan if you're wondering how the Act & these exemptions can be applied.

Fish Act 1994
Part 1 Division 4
Section 12 When Act does not apply

This Act does not apply to—
(a) the unintentional taking of regulated fish or marine plants if the fish or plants are not intentionally or recklessly injured or damaged and are immediately put back

Have a read of all of Sections 12, 13 and 14 for further exemptions if you're keen.

Legislation is messy but these days is much easier for the average punter to interpret than in years gone by. Just gotta link up all the Sections, Schedules in the various Acts, Regs and Management plans and read/analyse the words. Phew...

In summary:
On your fishin mission catch and take your coral reefies outside the closure dates then leave them ashore on the mainland. Fish on for other species during the closure and if you catch some coral reefies during the closure, release them unharmed immediately. Easy...and not dodgy at all.

Enjoy the trip!!

finding_time
22-07-2010, 04:42 PM
That's great info Seahound, Searash's big problem is that the'll be living aboard the boat for about 2 weeks and the closure occures during the middle of this period , so i guess he'll only have to catch what he can consume for the first period and then start freezing fish after the closure has finished! Good to know he can chase the non- reefies during the closure thought, i thought this was the case but the claification is great!

hellboy
23-07-2010, 10:50 AM
I don't think last year's closures ever happened. We were waiting for the announcement so that we could book our swains trip (as were lots of charter operators). In the end, there were no closures, as there were concerns that the periods targetted were not correct. We fished 10-17Oct, which was supposedly the date for closure in 2009!
Last I knew, there were still trying to figure out the 'best' times for the closures. I guess any week where there are no fish taken will help numbers, but i'd like to think that the people responsible actually knew what they were doing.
Might be worth calling one of the charter operators. They will probably confirm when it is happening.
cheers,
noel

boney-leg
23-07-2010, 12:03 PM
I don't think last year's closures ever happened. We were waiting for the announcement so that we could book our swains trip (as were lots of charter operators). In the end, there were no closures, as there were concerns that the periods targetted were not correct. l

I thought they dropped the last closure period but the first two stayed ...

Alchemy
24-07-2010, 08:46 AM
I thought they dropped the last closure period but the first two stayed ...

Pretty much correct except that the closures are now only a five day period, whereas before 2009 they were nine day periods. There were definitely closures in 2009.

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/28_3055.htm

Coral reef fin fish

Coral reef fin fish closure dates for 2009-2013:

15 October to 19 October 2009, and 14 November to 18 November 2009
5 October to 9 October 2010, and 3 November to 7 November 2010
24 October to 28 October 2011, and 22 November to 26 November 2011
12 October to 16 October 2012, and 11 November to 15 November 2012
2 October to 6 October 2013, and 31 October to 4 November 2013.
Tidal waters within the following boundary are closed waters for coral reef fin fish:


from the northern tip of Cape York along latitude 10°41’ south
to longitude 145° east
to latitude 13° south, longitude 145° east
to latitude 15° south, longitude 146° east
to latitude 17°30’ south, longitude 147° east
to latitude 21° south, longitude 152°55’ east
to latitude 24°30’ south, longitude 154° east
to latitude 24°50’ south, longitude 154° east along latitude 24°50’ south to the mainland shore along the shore to the northern tip of Cape York at latitude 10°41’ south.