legalities of crab bait

[tunaticer]

Ok, we all know that bag limits are also "in possession" limits which also count what is in your freezer at home or camp or both.
What say we go out and catch our limits of winter whiting and eat them and go out several times in a season, not ever exceeding the in possession limits, but we keep the frames in the freezer for crab bait in the warmer months.
Are these frames technically or physically going to get us in trouble with the possession limits?

I have a few friends with well over the numbers in frames in stock for the sand crab season coming up. Plus i regularly have more than the bag limit of snapper frames in the freezer waiting to go crabbing with. The fillets are all eaten but the frames still reside in wait.

[004dam]

best to ring the fisheries and ask them i guess to get the most clear answer.

[marto78]

If that was the case they could probably also fine you for having mullet fillets used for bait on board your boat, as the minimun length of a fillet on board is 45cm I think. Not to mention being over the bag limit for sea mullet too (which is 20) if you have 10-20kg of fillets with you at a time. Good question Jack, now it has me worried about the amount of bait I can legally take with me.?

[marto78]

HUH?? :o:o :o

[robersl]

You have a point but you would hope commen sense would prevail and if you had no excess fillets in the freezer they would understand.
I rang them regarding poddy mullet a while back and the 30 cm min limit on mullet and the different types and was told not to worry if it was being used at bait you should be right so they do not know themselves i think

shane

[hodges4]

Re mullet fillets for bait.
As far as I know fish can't be filleted in a boat unless the fillet is larger than the fish's minimum size. Once filleted, the fillets can't be returned to the boat.
Does that mean fillets can't be used as bait?

John

[Pridey]

Craziness.

1. Mullet is not fit for human consumption, its bait.

2. I've never bothered to look into these laws much more than, zoning, bag limit and size limit.... but the deeper you get, the crazier the laws are.

3. its starting to look like Australian Tax Law...... AAAGGGHHHHHH!!!

[Lucky_Phill]

Fillets on board a vessel must be min 40cms long. Skin on.

It's not hard to find the rules.

DPI&F website......... recreational fishing rules.

Free leaflets at most good tackle stores.

Commonsense does prevail in applying the law.



LP.
.

.

[Daintreeboy]

Phill the 40 cm rule only applies to Coral reef finfish. It does not apply to other tidal species. For example, you can fillet a Mangrove Jack and have a filltet that is 28 cm long. If the fillet came from a legal fish it is ok.
I made a call only a week ago to the fisheries to get this advice as the website was not clear enough on the other tidal species section. The fisheries officer took note of some points I made.

Here is the link, you will probably pick up the points I speak of that show some question marks on them. It doesn't even say you can fillet an other tidal species fish. He was surprised at that and could not find further documents to support it and therefore could only give a verbal on the fact you are allowed to fillet other tidal species like Spanish Mackerel.

It is something they need to rectify.

Cheers, Mark.

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/28_3054.htm

[Lucky_Phill]

True and I stand corrected.

Thanks


phill

[banshee]

I've had my catch checked whilst being in the possesion of half frozen frames destined for the pot (Tin Can Bay),he didn't count the frames in the bag limit but did check them for legal length.As for bait fillets,if you have a receipt you are fine with whatever quantity is stated on the receipt,if you don't have a receipt I don't have a clue.Likewise you can have any number of fish over a bag limit in your possesion so long as you have a receipt for them.

[cuzzamundi]

Interesting. So, if I was to get a five kilo box of Haki fillets, and take them out on the boat to use as strip bait, would that be illegal?

[Pridey]

I think you'd be mad if you did :P

[Daintreeboy]

I guess the real issue here is there is confusion. As I said earlier the fisheries guy was surprised the website did nto say anything about filleting other tidal species nor could he find anything to say that himself. Not good really.

[Pridey]

You're right. I dont have a drama with many of the regualtions at all.

Lets just clean them up, black and white.

[bondy99]

I hope no one is going to open the Pandoras Box,

[tunaticer]

Thanks for the replies fellas, interesting responses.
I see that most of you are referring to on board bait and fillets. Seeing that the fisheries guys are now checking at home freezers and pinging fellas that go for the week long restock of winter whiting for the next 12 months sort of drives home that the possibilities are there for us to have excesses of fish remnants in the freezer waiting for a crab or fishing session.
The likelihood of actually getting checked at home would be very slim, but for those that do get checked, this could be a problem if they wanted to nail a guy for something.
How often do we hear of somebody being almost harrassed by the police with apparent endless run ins for negligible checks? I think this sort of thing could also carry over to other inspectors that get a set against someone.
Going to ring the fisheries tomorrow asking for some sort of clarification on the issue. Will post up their replies soon.

[Feral]

Yes you would be in breach, thats why its called a possession limit.
Whether they would ping you? dunno, but "yes sir" and "no sir" would be good answers, a smart mouth would certainly ensure no leniency!

There are lots of inconsistencies in the law. EG What if you had a couple of barra or bass in the freezer, then the closed season ticks around? How do you prove the 2 bass in the esky came from the SIP dam and not the creek below it?

What if your the only one home when they come knockin? or more to the point what if your missus is the only one home, boy your life would no be worth living!

[Dignity]

oh my head hurts - like Pridey says some one needs to clear up the rules and regs, unfortunately once the lawyers get involved even they would find an argument for and against even if they made up the rules - I didn't even realise there was a limit on winter whiting, I'll have stop asking my mate for a bagful, they make great snapper baits.

my head still hurts :(

[tug_tellum]

Does anyone else think it is getting too hard to fish legally nowdays. :'(:'(:'(
tuG telluM

[ThePinkPanther]

[quote=Pridey;1176616]Craziness.

1. Mullet is not fit for human consumption, its bait.


What???? Mate, gimme a couple of nice big fresh deep sea mullet fillets cooked in breadcrumbs with a tinny and I am in heaven.

Beautiful eating fish!!

[mod5]

What???? Mate, gimme a couple of nice big fresh deep sea mullet fillets cooked in breadcrumbs with a tinny and I am in heaven.

Beautiful eating fish!!

Yep, gotta agree there ;)

[Lucky_Phill]

Damn, I just bought 60kgs of the freshest human consumption quality mullet fillet possible. Caught off the beach at dawn, filleted by 9am and in my car by 10.30.

Next, I salted it down and packed it into ziplock bags for BAIT for Red Emporer..... :-?

It did look yummy...but !!! :-?


;D;D ><> ><> ><> :P <>< <>< <>< ;D;D


Cheers Phill
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[tunaticer]

RESPONSE FROM DEEDI.............

The Fisheries Act 1994 states the fish also includes any part of fish.
Once filleted the fish frame is still a fish. So the fish frames would
be counted as a fish counted when determing "in possession limits" (bag
limits).

Hope this helps answer your question.

Regards

Nick

Nicholas Dennis
A/Senior Compliance Officer
>Queensland Boating and Fisheries Patrol
>Queensland Primary Industries and Fisheries
>Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation
>
>Telephone - 07 3224 2293 Facsimile - 07 3229 6079
>Email - nicholas.dennis@dpi.qld.gov.au
>Website www.dpi.qld.gov.au (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/) Call Centre 13 25 23

So basically fellas, all those whiting frames we have been saving for bait are going to get us in the shit. Common sense might prevail, but the letter of the law states clearly any part thereof is considered a fish regardless of the fillets being eaten.

Question asked:
With the current "in possession" bag limits for fish, I
have a question nobody can satisfactorily answer for me. Occasionally I
will go out and catch half a bag limit of winter whiting for example,
take them home fillet them and eat them. I keep the frames for future
crab bait and basically stockpile them, effectively accumulating
remnants of multiple captures that exceed the bag limits prescribed. I
have already eaten all of the fillets and only the remnants remain. Do
these fish frames technically and in reality pose a real problem for me
if i take the lot out crabbing as bait, or if my freezer at home was
inspected? I have asked this online in two popular forums and nobody can
give a definitive answer.

[Dignity]

I guess there is no such thing as 'sense' in commom sense and it certainly isn't 'common'

[Gazza]

RESPONSE FROM DEEDI.............

The Fisheries Act 1994 states the fish also includes any part of fish.
Once filleted the fish frame is still a fish. So the fish frames would
be counted as a fish counted when determing "in possession limits" (bag
limits).

Hope this helps answer your question.

Regards

Nick

Nicholas Dennis
A/Senior Compliance Officer
>Queensland Boating and Fisheries Patrol
>Queensland Primary Industries and Fisheries
>Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation
>
>Telephone - 07 3224 2293 Facsimile - 07 3229 6079
>Email - nicholas.dennis@dpi.qld.gov.au
>Website www.dpi.qld.gov.au (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/) Call Centre 13 25 23

So basically fellas, all those whiting frames we have been saving for bait are going to get us in the shit. Common sense might prevail, but the letter of the law states clearly any part thereof is considered a fish regardless of the fillets being eaten.

Question asked:
With the current "in possession" bag limits for fish, I
have a question nobody can satisfactorily answer for me. Occasionally I
will go out and catch half a bag limit of winter whiting for example,
take them home fillet them and eat them. I keep the frames for future
crab bait and basically stockpile them, effectively accumulating
remnants of multiple captures that exceed the bag limits prescribed. I
have already eaten all of the fillets and only the remnants remain. Do
these fish frames technically and in reality pose a real problem for me
if i take the lot out crabbing as bait, or if my freezer at home was
inspected? I have asked this online in two popular forums and nobody can
give a definitive answer.I would challenge that info , in any court in Australia !!

E.G. say you catch 3 snapper...fillet them and then "keep both the fillets and frames in your house"
.......then assume fisheries turn up 2 seconds later and accuse you of having 6 "fish" in your posssession !!!
i.e. 1 more than "5" baglimit

Bullcrap :argue:

p.s. no disrespect to Nick "intended" :iloveyou:

[tunaticer]

You could challenge it Gazza, but the law states "any part thereof" and I doubt you would win with legislation that specifically states any part of a fish is deemed to be a fish.

Technically therefore, people with multiple mangrove jack jaw trophies etc could be held accountable by the law.

[Gazza]

You could challenge it Gazza, but the law states "any part thereof" and I doubt you would win with legislation that specifically states any part of a fish is deemed to be a fish.

Technically therefore, people with multiple mangrove jack jaw trophies etc could be held accountable by the law.
Hi mate , thanks for giving a great further example as to why RecFishos "would win"
:laola:

[Fish_gutz]

now this may sound absurd but what if you had two legal barra alive in an 8 foot fish tank and the bag limit of barra in the freezer????? they are all "in your possesion"! common sense would have to come in to it somewhere one would think.

[Feral]

Fish Gutz, common sense has little place in the greenie influenced world of fish rules and regulations these days.

Just accept the rules are that complex and convoluted that we are probably all crims whether we know it or not.

[Fish_gutz]

I suppose this is where the "yes sir ,no sir" comes into play!

[tug_tellum]

so , how do we go about changing the law?

[Mike Delisser]

so , how do we go about changing the law?

Why do we need to change it?
Are there people being charged ATM because of too much crab bait in the freezer or too many barra in the fish tank?

[cormorant]

I would challenge that info , in any court in Australia !!

E.G. say you catch 3 snapper...fillet them and then "keep both the fillets and frames in your house"
.......then assume fisheries turn up 2 seconds later and accuse you of having 6 "fish" in your posssession !!!
i.e. 1 more than "5" baglimit

Bullcrap :argue:

p.s. no disrespect to Nick "intended" :iloveyou:



You only have 3 fish - They in the way they say would in fact count it as 6 fillets and 3 frames so you are well over with a count of 9.

Jeeze , imagine if you minced one - thatt's a thousand pieces!!!

Quick someone tell fisheries you get 2 fillets off a fish and sometinmes 3 the way I fillet !!!!!

Otherwise when you catch a Blue eye and cut it into 10 cutlets, steaks you would be counted as 10 fish. Bullcrap

When they spend the $1000 a test per fillet to prove the DNA is different I'll cop it sweet. Well I wouldn't actually.

Go to your fish mongers now and buy 20 kg of frames and keep the receipt for the next 10 years . If ever challenged use the receipt and let them prove it isn't the same fillets.

When they inspect your freezer with ony teh wife home and they ask who owns these if there is 5 people in the house who participated in teh fishing then each should have a in posession limit and if you are storing fish for a mate then it should be labled.

Friggin Nanny world we live in. If they wernt inside doing a corporate course on common sense they might actually get some boat time and catch some of the blatent offenders out there.

[tug_tellum]

Why do we need to change it?
Are there people being charged ATM because of too much crab bait in the freezer or too many barra in the fish tank?
Well, why wait till someone is charged! If the law is flawed then it needs to be rectified. We have enough stupid rules & regulations already, or should we wait for the Gov. to require even more revenue & start enforcing this law & say it has been around for years & nobody has complained.
tuG telluM

[Mike Delisser]

Well, why wait till someone is charged! If the law is flawed then it needs to be rectified. We have enough stupid rules & regulations already, or should we wait for the Gov. to require even more revenue & start enforcing this law & say it has been around for years & nobody has complained.
tuG telluM

I don't really think anyone will be charged mate, it's been in for years and no one has yet. The only person I've heard of getting done for something like this was a very blatantly open black market crabber who had a freezer full tailor frames (way over bag limit) but he was only busted for a few frames of undersize tailor that were amongst them. They were'n interested in the number of frames in the freezer. The A-hole was lucky they didn't get him selling crabs.

Besides, the last thing a Fisheries Officer wants is for his collar to be let off because a judge dissmisses the case, fortunately for those of us who try to do the right thing judges love the words "what's reasonable".
There's a heap of rules & regs more flawed or unfair than this that probably deserve our attention first.
Cheers

[murf]

haha the laws are so flawed that I break the law every day and every time I go fishing :-?

I have more bait than I am allowed, just put 20kg of mullet in the freezer and no receipt was given at the co-op, not that I thought to ask for one or keep it (get real)

so where is the line in the sand ??????????????????????????????????????????

what is right and what is wrong????????????????????????????????????

I don't know????????????????????????

and neither do the fisheries officers (have asked lots of questions and they can't answer them, or won't)

yes sir no sir :)

I own up I am a criminal by the law :-[

the number of squeaky clean people would be minimal, and anyone who argues this will loose :P

cheers Murf

[Reefmaster]

haha the laws are so flawed that I break the law every day and every time I go fishing :-?

I have more bait than I am allowed, just put 20kg of mullet in the freezer and no receipt was given at the co-op, not that I thought to ask for one or keep it (get real)

so where is the line in the sand ??????????????????????????????????????????

what is right and what is wrong????????????????????????????????????

I don't know????????????????????????

and neither do the fisheries officers (have asked lots of questions and they can't answer them, or won't)

yes sir no sir :)

I own up I am a criminal by the law :-[

the number of squeaky clean people would be minimal, and anyone who argues this will loose :P

cheers Murf


Yep totally agree Murf. The funny thing is we think it's a joke for us fishos who are so into fishing and follow rules and regs but gee I feel sorry for those fishos who don't fish regularly.

I guess I could get done as well for the 300 kg of Mullet I purchased for bait the other day. What a joke

[robersl]

Ok here is one before the new laws re winter whiting limits i normally buy 3-4 kilo's of winter whiting for crab bait from morgans at scarborough with that i am over my limit of fifty fish so i can no longer do that i need this amount to enable me to change the baits every couple of pulls of the pots to refresh the bait for sand crabs as they love them mind you these fish ar very small and brown and stink and mushy from being frozen i would not eat them but the asians love them for there curries ect

[banshee]

Ok here is one before the new laws re winter whiting limits i normally buy 3-4 kilo's of winter whiting for crab bait from morgans at scarborough with that i am over my limit of fifty fish so i can no longer do that i need this amount to enable me to change the baits every couple of pulls of the pots to refresh the bait for sand crabs as they love them mind you these fish ar very small and brown and stink and mushy from being frozen i would not eat them but the asians love them for there curries ect

No,you are not over your limit,you would have been issued with a receipt which will cover you for the amount it states 'in possesion'.

[Midnight]

[quote=Pridey;1176616]Craziness.

1. Mullet is not fit for human consumption, its bait.


?????

Fresh Sea mullet is one of my all time favourite eating fish.

I would swap a ute load of Cat food, oops I meant Tailor, for 1 tray of mullet off the beach;D

Cheers,
Myles

[Runamuck]

I reckon if all your caught fish on board, be it whole or filleted are legal size and you are fishing in the correct zones then you should have nothing to worry about, unless you are doing something blatantly stupid in which you probably already know its not right.. Isn't this what fishos have been doing for years. Its just the odd few that challenge the rules.
Happy fishing!!!

[goanna1]

Here is yet a another question. spanish mackrel have to have thier pectrel fins clipped are they reef fish or other tidal species

[Daintreeboy]

Here is yet a another question. spanish mackrel have to have thier pectrel fins clipped are they reef fish or other tidal species

They are other tidal so not included in the total bag limit for Coral reef fin fish nor are they subject to the coral reef fin fish closed seasons.

[goanna1]

They are other tidal so not included in the total bag limit for Coral reef fin fish nor are they subject to the coral reef fin fish closed seasons.


Ok what about estuary cod they are now 38cm are they reef or other tidal


Stu;D

[murf]

Ok what about estuary cod they are now 38cm are they reef or other tidal


Stu;D

they are protected



in NSW :-*

cheers Murf

[Daintreeboy]

They are now coral reef finfish mate.