Etec - thumbs up

[Bear001]

OK - everyone bags them, but I just wanted to report that I just had a service and I've had it for 2 summers/fishing seasons now (40hp) and have 385 hours on it. (Imagine what hours are on the Minn Kota:shocked: :rolleyes: )

Had an injector problem that was fixed under warranty and Im not complaining.

Just wanted a happy Etec thread for a change.:smiley:

Cind

[gr hilly]

thats good news no 7 million words hay cind lol
hilly

[adam sharkcat]

OK - everyone bags them, but I just wanted to report that I just had a service and I've had it for 2 summers/fishing seasons now (40hp) and have 385 hours on it. (Imagine what hours are on the Minn Kota:shocked: :rolleyes: )

Had an injector problem that was fixed under warranty and Im not complaining.

Just wanted a happy Etec thread for a change.:smiley:

Cind
They can bag them,but have they owned one?I repowered a seafarer 5mtr vsea with a 115hp e tec and had it for two years.didnt spend a cent on it.all the power you want, without the arse heavy,gutless 4 stroke!:grin:

[whatscracken]

Same goes for someone who hasn't had a 4 stroke mate! Don't hear a bad word about them cause its all positive.

[Huey]

Hi, all engines are fine and trust me I can tell you horror stories with all brands and technologies. As for the I-3 E-TEC we sell ALOT and they are great engines and I hope you get many more hours of enjoyment out of it. We have 90HPs in commercial use that do alot of hours and the highest at the monet is is over 3500 hours and last time it was here the compression was rock solid-can not say the same for the look of it, this guy is a pro fisherman who uses the engine basically every night and it has taken its fair share of knocks and scratches.

As I say, the main thing with outboards, of any brand and technology, get it rigged right, run good fuel and oil and do some home maitanance and they are all good, but the facts are that only in the 2-Stroke design do we see 30 year old plus engines today. Who knows in another 15-20 years are we going to see, say a 90HP 4-Stroke still running happily-we should if that engine is looked after, but time will tell.

Just my 2 cents worth on this never ending discussion and I have heard all the stories about E-TEC and most are BS and if a person has to bag someone elses engine to make himself feel better than pity him and I wish them well. As for what I have heard from dealers of other brands say, it is in their best interest to say these things and selling E-TEC is not in our best interest due to not making as much money out of servicing them.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Marlin_Mike]

ETEC and Thumbs Up in the same sentence :shocked: :rolleyes: .............now that's about as

rare as a fart in a fan factory...............:grin: :tongue: :grin: :wink:


Mike

[Steeler]

Huey

I think you pose i might fine darn question there about the 4 strokes. I was just thinking the other day about this ( I know Panadiene fort got a work out ).

I posed the question to myself about hopping in my 4 cycle petrol car and say driving it for 30 minutes or so at say 4500 - 5500 RPM and thought,no way i would be afraid to see it start to dismember.

So i thought your question of longevity out of the 4 strokes was an interesting one,Don't get me wrong i am most certainly not against them just curious.

Bear001 i am pleased that you feel you got your monies worth, its the personal experience that go a long way to making you a good ambassador of the brand and repeat customer in the future.

Steeler

[adam sharkcat]

Hi, all engines are fine and trust me I can tell you horror stories with all brands and technologies. As for the I-3 E-TEC we sell ALOT and they are great engines and I hope you get many more hours of enjoyment out of it. We have 90HPs in commercial use that do alot of hours and the highest at the monet is is over 3500 hours and last time it was here the compression was rock solid-can not say the same for the look of it, this guy is a pro fisherman who uses the engine basically every night and it has taken its fair share of knocks and scratches.

As I say, the main thing with outboards, of any brand and technology, get it rigged right, run good fuel and oil and do some home maitanance and they are all good, but the facts are that only in the 2-Stroke design do we see 30 year old plus engines today. Who knows in another 15-20 years are we going to see, say a 90HP 4-Stroke still running happily-we should if that engine is looked after, but time will tell.

Just my 2 cents worth on this never ending discussion and I have heard all the stories about E-TEC and most are BS and if a person has to bag someone elses engine to make himself feel better than pity him and I wish them well. As for what I have heard from dealers of other brands say, it is in their best interest to say these things and selling E-TEC is not in our best interest due to not making as much money out of servicing them.

Cheers,

Huey.
I agree with that huey,and there not arse heavy like 4bangers:grin:

[deckie]

Why would anyone bag Etec's ?
I like torque.
I like reliability.
I dont like servicing expenses.

I prefer 2 stks for many reasons...and about the only criticism i have is they dont chew enough fuel, dont blow enough smoke when u start up on a crisp morning at the ramp, and definitely arnt loud enough to remind me i'm going fishing.

[Huey]

Hi Steeler, yes mate I often wonder that too and even though there are many 4-Strokes running around with high hours, having an engine with all those moving parts running at high RPM for extended periods can not be good for it and we have seen what happens when something goes wrong and trust me it is not pretty and it can be expensive and sometimes, if out of warranty, can make the engine not cost effective to repair. I say to 4-Stroke guys, do a little experiement, ring around your brands dealers and ask for the price on a replacement cylinder head and you might be in for a shock. In fact one brand of 4-Stroke in thier owners manual actually advises against extended periods of WOT for I guess that reason and until I see a 4-Stroke outboard running and winning in something like the Bridge to Bridge, we have here on the Hawkesbury, or the Southern 80 then the life expectance of a high revving outboard for extended periods is something that is not proven.

On the car side, I remember seeing a program years ago from either Top Gear of Fifth Gear where they took a VW golf and drove it in first gear flat out around a track, without changing gears, and that engine only lasted a few miles before problems started to happen. Next time you are driving your car watch the Tacho and rarely does it spend extended time above 3000RPM and then compare that to an outboard, that when planning a boat, never goes below 3000RPM and it is under load all the time, while a automotive engine gets an easy life will alot of rolling, downhill rolling and rests. Years ago OMC did a test where they simulated the stesses under which an outboard has to operate and it was like asking a car to go up a never ending hill towing a caravan and having it do 90K/hr without a rest. That is alot of stress and then you add the element of cooling via salt water and these complicated cylinder heads start to become a problem.

One thing I also think about, is IF these guys making and pushing 4-Stroke outboard now thought they were superior why were they not making them before any EPA forced them to make them. When they were not forced to make clean engines every brand was happy with 2-Strokes because they do a good job pushing a boat thru water, only when they were forced to go clean did they really start making 4-Strokes above 20HP and the easiest route for the Japanese was to just take a bike or automotive engine and try make it work as an outboard, while other brands have met the worlds toughest emissions (being not only the CARB 3 star but the EU as well) without having to sacrifice torque and using a proven simple design like a 2-Stroke. Also on the emission subject the 2-Stroke oil that an E-TEC uses is acounted for in its 3 star rating-the oil that a 4-stroke uses is not accounted for and I imagine alot of that is not disposed of very environmently friendly.

I say to people too, do not think for a minute that BRP could not make a 4-Stroke outboard-they do own Rotax, who are probably the worlds best manufacter of small 4-Stroke powerheads, so it would be very easy from BRP to make them using Rotax powerheads, but then they will be just like everyone else and sacrifice somethings to go clean. Rotax can get 260HP out of a small/compact 4-TEC engine for their Sea-Doo and Ski-doo so that would make a good powerhead for an outboard, but especially on the Ski-Doo front, they can get better performance out of a 800 E-TEC powerplant than 1200 4-TEC powerplant all with less weight and less moving parts. I have been lucky enough to ride these Ski-Doos in Canada and trust me the 4-TEC ones went OK, but the 2-Stroke ones were in a different league in terms of performance. If anyone is interested you should go the Ski-Doo website because there are cool videos showing this and also the inner workings of both the E-TEC and the 4-TEC engines.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Steeler]

Maybe i am a bit old school.But in days gone by when it come to working engines if it was large scale it was diesel if it was small scale it was 2 stroke and the good old 4 stroke/cycle was your run of the mill low RPM motor.

Certainly not looking to pick a blue with any 4 stroke owner just purely looking for some mechanical enlightenment as to what makes a 4 stroke outboard so unique that it will stand the test of time performing many hours at the sort of RPM we would be afraid to do in our 4 cycle cars for any extended period of time.

Steeler

[cormorant]

Maybe i am a bit old school.But in days gone by when it come to working engines if it was large scale it was diesel if it was small scale it was 2 stroke and the good old 4 stroke/cycle was your run of the mill low RPM motor.

Certainly not looking to pick a blue with any 4 stroke owner just purely looking for some mechanical enlightenment as to what makes a 4 stroke outboard so unique that it will stand the test of time performing many hours at the sort of RPM we would be afraid to do in our 4 cycle cars for any extended period of time.

Steeler

Speaking generally boat motors in the last 10 yeras have been manufactured to much tighter tollerances out of much better quality of metal. If effect with the quality of milling , crack test, xray, and balancing machinery they use at the factory these days would have to be better than the hand made race stuff I was looking at 15 -20 years ago and it is straight out of the packet. Better coatings , hardening and design of moving arts along with quality of bearings, seals and it adds up to a tighter machine that can be revved harder with newer technology oil. Add computer controlled factors and if f you can keep the heat being transferred away from the combustion chamber and exhaust cool enough you have a powerhead that can run longer and harder whilst still lasting. That said and if any one of the factors above is not close to perfect the result of running it at high revs comes home to roost very quickly.

Look at a v8 supercar or a race motorbike . Both pull significant revs but last the length of time they are designed to.


The biggest thing missing in petrol marine is true ratings like you have with diesel commercial motors. They rate them to a number of hours at a certain load at certain revs even for the new lightweight fast revving diesels. Shame the outboard manufacturers don't have a standard way of determining that and publish it as we all know they do testing till destruction on design and then production motors.

In regards to car motors and low revs etc . They do what they were designed for to a price of production at a certian effeciency for a certain tooling cost at the factory. . Yep we used to balance and blueprint motors and they used to run high load and high revs all day and companies like Ferrari had them over the counter for sale.

Honestly if a 4 stroke lets go at revs then you have a big mess and if a 2 stroke lets go you have a similar mess . In theory in a perfect world you should be able to keep putting rings in a 2 stroke forever and nothing would wear out especially with the new surface coatings Due to these very surface coatings in a 4 stroke and the signficant number of parts in the valve train it is very expensive to replace all the valves etc.i

Stihl are manufacturing 4 mix motors which are a 2 stroke fuel premix but have a head with a valve train so they have no wasted fuel charge by having inlet and exhaust open at the same time. No electrnics other than ignition so simple for blowers and the like

I think not too far in the future we will have 2 stroke motors with a sealed oil filled sump and hydraulic or electric valves and direct petrol and injection as that makes every stroke a power stroke with heaps of torque at all revs and will meet pollution regulations. new motors already are complicated so this would allow for all the benefits with the fewest parts. If they were smart and could use the oil as a coolant then say farewell to the corrosion problems that eventually defeat a salt water cooled outboard

4 stroke is more parts required to have more exacting tollerances. As they get old more possible parts to have issues.

Would I run a4stroke outboard at the top of it's rev range and expect it to last - no . Many people have to due to transom weight restrictions on boats. I would place a overpowered 4 stroke and run it mid range.

Same with a 2 stroke but with the lighter weights it allows on a older hull to have more hp and to run it harder for longer when I want to.

[stevej]

whats an injector going to cost you after warranty is up

[Jabba_]

$300 for the injector, plus 1hr labour.... Unlikely you would ever need more then 2 injectors replaced, and even 2 at once is a huge streach... You biggest concern is water, that will screw your injectors whether there E-tec's, Yammie or any other fuel injected motor....

[stevej]

i know this relates to all direct injections too but only etech does th elittle motors which we see on tinnys everywhere 25-30s on 1314ft tinnys

some of these motors run up thousands of hours
so whats the life of an injector ?

i know my 30 i sometimes never turn it off in a 5-6 hour session

[murf]

$300 for the injector, plus 1hr labour.... Unlikely you would ever need more then 2 injectors replaced, and even 2 at once is a huge streach... You biggest concern is water, that will screw your injectors whether there E-tec's, Yammie or any other fuel injected motor....

a local pro is up to 9 injectors so far :shocked: but would it be the same for any brand ?

cheers Murf

[Jabba_]

a local pro is up to 9 injectors so far :shocked: but would it be the same for any brand ?

cheers Murf

The question has to be asked, WTF is he putting in his tank, or there is something more sinister wrong with his motor...

I know off one other owner that had to replace all 6 off his injectors over a period off 12 months..... But it was his stupid fault... Really who would go out boating/fishing with no fuel cap... This fella had small amount off salts water splash into his open fuel tank during the coarse off the day...

Long to short..
His warranty was expired, and had to pay for repairs himself... Replacing all 6 at the time when injectors cost $600 a pop was not viable, so replaced each injector when it stop working.... It took 12 months for all six to be replace.....

[murf]

The question has to be asked, WTF is he putting in his tank, or there is something more sinister wrong with his motor...

I know off one other owner that had to replace all 6 off his injectors over a period off 12 months..... But it was his stupid fault... Really who would go out boating/fishing with no fuel cap... This fella had small amount off salts water splash into his open fuel tank during the coarse off the day...

Long to short..
His warranty was expired, and had to pay for repairs himself... Replacing all 6 at the time when injectors cost $600 a pop was not viable, so replaced each injector when it stop working.... It took 12 months for all six to be replace.....

I hear ya re there is a problem there somewhere, it would have to be specific to his boat/motor/operator to keep doing that many

cheers Murf

[Huey]

Hi, I agree, if that many injectors have failed there is a root cause they have not fixed and it will keep happening again. I have just checked our records on the injector P/N and we have bought 13 injectors over the last 7 years of E-TEC and of the about 600 engines we have sold and serviced so 9 on one engine seems wrong. Of those 13, only 6 have had open/shorted circuits and the rest are fuel related failures and anytime we get a rough running E-TEC in here we remove, dismantle and inspect the injector and 9 times out of 10 we clean them and the engine runs great again. Even last week had a guy in here saying somewhere else replaced an injector, but putting the laptop on it showed no codes for faulty injectors so my bet would be that this engine only had a dirty injector due to the fuel we are forced to use in today environment and just cleaning it would of be all that was needed instead of a new injector.

Cheers,

Huey.

[ozscott]

As a boatie who does not use his boat as much as he would like (meaning he holds onto the motor a lot longer than warranty period) the talk about injector costs scares me for any brand and any type. Setting aside the pollution argument I still think there is a place for carby outboards. My 93 Yam V4 is still running like a dream and a carb clean ($100 if you pay for it) every 3 years if its not used enough is all that is required.

Cheers

PS. I know in theory with a proper filter and fresh fuel injector problems shouldnt be a problem, but gee either a lot of people are doing the wrong thing with fuel, or it really is just a theory cause in a number of brands injector cleaning/replacing is happening. I know a Merc dealer whom I trust and when I asked him if the Opti's were bullet proof now after so many years of development and improvement he said pretty much but without a massive amount of conviction....I took it to mean they were very good, but dont expect no problems at all....for the cost of these motors (and they are massively expensive, lets face it, especially for the boatie that is not getting out much) I would want more - some may say I am being unreasonable, but there you go). So if you can put up with a little more noise, a little more smoke, the petrol costs difference (which for the occasional use boatie is never going to cost you as much as the difference between the new and old tech motor purchase cost - much less the extra costs out of warranty of the new tech) and the pollution 'issue' the old tech such as the V4 and V6 Yamm carb still represent an outstanding piece of kit for a very low price comparatively.

Cheers

[Noelm]

I guess to be fair, lets compare our marine engines to cars for a second, almost every car made these days is fuel injected, right! now hands up anyone who has replaced an injector in their car, I would reckon probably no one, so then, are outboard injectors so much more inferior? is the modern outboard running so close to the "edge" that a speck of crap in the fuel system means disaster? or is it a combination of harsh environment, pushed to the limit, infrequent use and bad fuel filtration systems that causes this failure rate? This is especially so when motors like (say) Honda are concerened, being based on a proven car engine, do they use the same injectors, and has there been a failure rate in boats compared to cars, maybe Spaniard King could advise us on how many injestors he has seen dead, or knows of positive failures in a Honda outboard (remember I am not picking on Honda, they are a fine engine, I just know it is based on an auto engine, so the comparison is more fair.

[Noelm]

Just to add, maybe somehow, injector failure is related to 2 stroke technology although I don't quite see how it could be, even on a 2 stroke, the injector is just a petrol injector, but lets see if we can sypher out some sort of truths.

[ozscott]

Noel I tend to agree that there must be a reason for it on boat motors (although modern diesels are having dramas with injectors), and it could be a combination of things. I suppose fuel going stale/condensation is probably the main culprit from what I can tell. I think all this is an interesting lesson to those who do not use the boat every week say to think hard on the engine choice, cause carby motors are more forgiving and (FAR!!!) cheaper to clean up from water in the fuel.

Cheers

[chop duster]

Anyone running a 150 HO ?

Went out in a mates boat, he seemed happy with everythig apart from the amount of oil the thing chews. Does the HO's run different oil ratio's and what sort of oil should he be runnng?
Pretty sure he was told to run XD100 (dear as poison) @ what seems to be 50:1 useage?

Runs smooth and quite enough for a 2 stroke (nothing on a Verado) although I was still getting the 2 stroke smell.

P.S- runs 25-30mile out to a spot then back, mostly cruise speed....

[ozscott]

Nice informative post Huey. Do you strip them all injectors down to clean on a rough running etec with no faults recorded and what is the cost to the customer both in an out of warranty typically for such service?

Cheers mate

[Spaniard_King]

I don't beleive the injectors on an Etec are serviceable ( this would be due to their complicity) as they are matched to the ECU to work at the optimum level.

Most 4 strokes have simply car injectors.. easy to clean and test with the right gear.

[Noelm]

yep, what you say about the e-tec injectors is right, but do you see many blocked injectors on Hondas? or better still any buggered ones? I have some mates with Honda cars, and I cannot ever remember one ever having an injector cleaned or replaced, also got a couple of mates with Honda outboards, and the same thing seems to be the case, so maybe the (say) e-tec injector is far more complicated and therefore more things to bugger up.

[ozscott]

I bought a an MY10 Honda Accord Euro for my wife last year and I love the V-TEC...what an magic little engine. I reckon if the Honda outboards are as reliable as the Honda cars (which really are the top of the pile for reliability) they would be worth the extra dough.

How much to clean them all Gary?

Cheers

[Huey]

Hi, an E-TEC injector is easy to clean with the right tools and if you know what you are doing. It takes about 30 minutes and no brand of outboard will offer warranty on dirty/blocked injectors. Do not get confused, an injector is allocated to each cylindr so you can not intercha ge them without knowing what you are doing and basically telling the EMM you are going to do it. You can swap to test, but i would not leave it in that cylinder.

On the 150HO, I hope she is propped and set-up right-you want to see about 5600 at WOT and oil / fuel usage relates to how you drive it. Also make sure she is running at right temp-no engine likes running cold. On the oil subject find someone who sells by the bulk and it can work out at about $50/G and that is not much dearer than the cheapest/nastiest TCW-3 oil, which any E-TEC can use as long as the EMM is set to its defult setting as it comes from BRP, but if it was my engine (and on my 225HO and 250HO) I only use XD-100 and at the end of the day I am not that concerned that is might cost a bit more in oil.

Cheers,

Huey.

[sea-rash]

" I guess that reason and until I see a 4-Stroke outboard running and winning in something like the Bridge to Bridge, we have here on the Hawkesbury, or the Southern 80 then the life expectance of a high revving outboard for extended periods is something that is not proven."

I am fairly sure all of those inboards in superclass that usually win the SOUTHERN 80 and Bridge to Bridge races are four strokes.

Rash

[whatscracken]

Who do you work for Huey? Know a lot about the E Bombs!

[Mister]

OK - everyone bags them, but I just wanted to report that I just had a service and I've had it for 2 summers/fishing seasons now (40hp) and have 385 hours on it. (Imagine what hours are on the Minn Kota:shocked: :rolleyes: )

Had an injector problem that was fixed under warranty and Im not complaining.

Just wanted a happy Etec thread for a change.:smiley:

Cind

Can we have a report in another 20 years :wink:

[ozscott]

Can we have a report in another 20 years :wink:

Yes - I dont think age will be kind to the electronics and injectors of the new high tech motors. As long as its buyer beware with this stuff that isnt a drama I guess.

Cheers

[cormorant]

there is a lot of erosion happening on carby outboards parts from our fuels at the minute.

Direct injection requires high pressure and EPA means you need several injections per stroke . Need high pressure to overcome cylinder pressure and also to get decent atomisation at tip.

4 stroke non direct injection is low pressure into a inlet manifold or at the inlet port

As environmental restrictions get tighter there will be a choice to go to direct injection or cat converters or something else. Cat comverters and salt water don't mix let alone the expense.

No price competition on injectors in cars and now boats for the fancy ones as they are so specific there are no generics avaliable. Especially with ones that require coding on a ecu as only teh manufacturer will have access to the software / circuitry.

All companies are having issues with what is in fuel and how to protect components cars boats bikes. AQs different forms of green fuels are added who knows what the issues will be.


the HO etecs in some applications were set to teh TWC3 setting as teh Bass boys in the states bouncing them off teh rev limiter in skinny water were having issues. Not sure if that is still the case but that would increase XD100 usage a lot if you hammer along, are overloaded or overpropped a even worse consumption would happen.

3 or 5 year warranty is bullcrap. These new motors should warranty all the components ike the computers for the life of the product for example 5000 hours. Injectors - well they know the fuel quality in the country , they have a water seperating filter etc we so that shouldn't be an excuse . Injector should last 5000 hours for examply. Product should be fit for service it was sold for with a reasonable lifespan. What's reasonable when teh manufacturer keeps monopoly on spare parts and prices and then wants you to upgrade?

[Spaniard_King]

I bought a an MY10 Honda Accord Euro for my wife last year and I love the V-TEC...what an magic little engine. I reckon if the Honda outboards are as reliable as the Honda cars (which really are the top of the pile for reliability) they would be worth the extra dough.

How much to clean them all Gary?

Cheers

The last lot of 4 stroke Injectors I got cleaned cost $25 per injector (and I watched it being done)

Now as far as I know there is no one in Australia that has the ability to clean and test any Etec or Ficht injector... please prove me wrong!

[death_ship]

in reality its a thumbs down thread

[Huey]

Hi, as I said you, can clean an E-TEC injector easily with the right tools and training and also easy to test them with the right diagnostic equipment and training too. I guess the comment about in 20 years time can apply to any clean tech engine, but at least I can show you 30 year 2-Strokes still running in the salt water marine environment. I work for myself and our family has been in the marine industry continually since 1964 and were one of the first Johnson dealers in Australia and over the last 45 years we have sold and serviced every brand of outboard so i think I can speak from some experience.

I wish all well with whatever engine they choose to use and all are good and the main thing is that you enjoy your boat because I for one enjoy mine and have being boating all my life.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Huey]

Hi, as I said, you can easily clean an E-TEC injector with the right tools and as for testing them, with the right diagnostic equipment and training it is easy to that too. The comment about 20 years time can easily apply to any clean tech engine, but at least I can show you 30 year old plus 2-Strokes still running in our salt water environment. I work for myself and my family has been in the marine industry continually since 1964 and we were one of the first Johnson dealers in the country and over the last 45 years plus we have sold and serviced all the brands so I can speak from some experience.

I wish every boat owner well no matter what they choose to use and I for one hipe they enjoy their boat because I do enjoy mine and have used boats all my life.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Bear001]

Its refreshing to see some useful discussion, instead of the ....'such & such brand is crap, full stop end of story' that goes on.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Look, both my late father & my husband were/are mechanics by trade and knows bugger all about fandangle computerised outboards, so with that I dont expect any motor, new or not, to not have issues, thats just basic mechanics....moving parts etc - things happen! (& thats without the electronics/ECU side of things on top)

Anyhow that said, perhaps I will get 20years out of my motor as it only see's the saltwater once a year...at the time I bought my last boat the same HP 4-strokes were too heavy, so an ETEC suited my situation.

.........but realistically - I HOPE TO WIN LOTTO AND TALK THE HUBBY INTO LETTING ME UPGRADE between now and then....lol:grin: :rolleyes:

Cind

[murf]

Its refreshing to see some useful discussion, instead of the ....'such & such brand is crap, full stop end of story' that goes on.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Look, both my late father & my husband were/are mechanics by trade and knows bugger all about fandangle computerised outboards, so with that I dont expect any motor, new or not, to not have issues, thats just basic mechanics....moving parts etc - things happen! (& thats without the electronics/ECU side of things on top)

Anyhow that said, perhaps I will get 20years out of my motor as it only see's the saltwater once a year...at the time I bought my last boat the same HP 4-strokes were too heavy, so an ETEC suited my situation.

.........but realistically - I HOPE TO WIN LOTTO AND TALK THE HUBBY INTO LETTING ME UPGRADE between now and then....lol:grin: :rolleyes:

Cind

so when are you coming over to the briny for a snapper fish Cindi?

cheers Murf

[ozscott]

A motor used more than not is the way to go. Hot miles and keeping the crud from settling in the water galleys.

Cheers

[Spaniard_King]

Hi, as I said, you can easily clean an E-TEC injector with the right tools and as for testing them, with the right diagnostic equipment and training it is easy to that too. The comment about 20 years time can easily apply to any clean tech engine, but at least I can show you 30 year old plus 2-Strokes still running in our salt water environment. I work for myself and my family has been in the marine industry continually since 1964 and we were one of the first Johnson dealers in the country and over the last 45 years plus we have sold and serviced all the brands so I can speak from some experience.

I wish every boat owner well no matter what they choose to use and I for one hipe they enjoy their boat because I do enjoy mine and have used boats all my life.

Cheers,

Huey.

Ok I will ask again:rolleyes: Who In Australia has the gear and the ability to Clean and Test to manufacturers specs??

I am sure the punters would like to know who can do this for them as every dealer I know in SEQ simply replaces them:tongue:

[Geoff-]

Thanks Huey for contributing such useful information even though you get a hard time for it.

I think most stuff you buy today is designed with a limited lifespan in mind - "they don't make em like they used to" applies. Everything is so price driven these days you simply can't overengineer something to last 30 years, you would price yourself out of the market. Better to make something that works great for 10 years, low emissions etc and then in 10 years time it's not worth maintaining so the customer buys another motor, keeps the retail chain ticking over, and the old one gets melted down and recycled. I'm a bit cynical about the whole planned obsolescence thing but when everyone wants cheap cheap then what do you expect.

Carby motors might well last 30 years but unless you rebuild them they'll be bad polluters. Something else to bear in mind it's rebuild vs replace.

[ozscott]

Funny thing is I am polluting less by keeping my 93 V4 and using it infrequently versus buying a new engine (with the carbon etc in the manufacturer of it) and running it regularly....food for thought at least.

Cheers

[Huey]

Ok I will ask again:rolleyes: Who In Australia has the gear and the ability to Clean and Test to manufacturers specs??

I am sure the punters would like to know who can do this for them as every dealer I know in SEQ simply replaces them:tongue:

Hi, never seen you ask-you said you did not know, but as I have said three times now-we do and I guess every dealer that you know in SE QLD do not go above and beyond and that is why I guess we have been in business for over 45 years. If they knew what they were doin it is easy to dismantle with the correct P/N tools and we have had good success with cleaning dirty/blocked injectors.

I wish you well in servicing what you service and you would make good money out of servicing the engines every 6 months as per the owners manual P122 of the new 90HP that you choose to specilize in.

[ozscott]

Huey - I appreciate what you are saying. But what does E'Rude say about cleaning/servicing injectors. For warranty claims do they say that if the injector is not metering properly to replace. Does their tech stuff actually say anything about cleaning and if so what? Im not being difficult just wondering about what the man' says about it and what cleaning might do to them.

Cheers mate

[Huey]

Huey - I appreciate what you are saying. But what does E'Rude say about cleaning/servicing injectors. For warranty claims do they say that if the injector is not metering properly to replace. Does their tech stuff actually say anything about cleaning and if so what? Im not being difficult just wondering about what the man' says about it and what cleaning might do to them.

Cheers mate

Hi, if any clean tech engine has a blocked injector and requires cleaning no brand will warrant that. IF an E-TEC has a faulty injector, that will store a code then if under warranty it will be replaced free of charge-as any brand should. IF out of warranty that is a different story but with our 45 years of business with OMC/BRP they often come to the party after the 5 years warranty if the dealer goes into bat for the owner and can show that the boats fuel system is upto spec etc.

The tech stuff has the basics, but again with our experience we like to look out the square and if we have an injector that has not stored a code and passes the tests, but the engine is still not running right, instead of just replacing it and maybe charging the owner we have cleaned them with good results. Just two weeks ago had a 90HP that we sold about 18 months ago in for its 300 hour service-had done 303 hours and the customer was saying she was running a little rough. Anyway we serviced it, new plugs, filters, water pump etc and yes no.1 cylinder when doing a drop test was a bit down compared to the other and this was confirm by doing a fuel flow test and adjusting the rate-all can be done if you know what you are doing. We removed that injector, dismantled and cleaned it. We re-fitted and water tested it and she ran great.

You never stop learning in this industry and we learnt years ago with these new tech engines and injectors they are more prone to bad fuel than the old carby engines.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Spaniard_King]

Huey,

I choose to service all brands, Like yourself no doubt. Like you I too have many years in the trade and have over 15 years experience in an OMC dealership(Including several years on ficht engines).

I will take up your comments with the 3 local BRP dealers on cleaning injectors as I would like to know the proceedure myself.

You can throw all the mud you like but you and I both know that any engine can go 3 years or 300 hrs without servicing its what happens down the track that matters:wink:

[Huey]

Huey,

I choose to service all brands, Like yourself no doubt. Like you I too have many years in the trade and have over 15 years experience in an OMC dealership(Including several years on ficht engines).

I will take up your comments with the 3 local BRP dealers on cleaning injectors as I would like to know the proceedure myself.

You can throw all the mud you like but you and I both know that any engine can go 3 years or 300 hrs without servicing its what happens down the track that matters:wink:

Hi, I am not the one throwing mud with the eye roll faces etc, but I am am justing quoting what is in the manufacturers hand book and in warranty, if it is not done as per the book, what do they say if somebody needs warranty? I know for a fact that the brand of 4-Stroke that we sell (and yes we too do service all brands) if it is not documented the services done as per the book, warranty can be a pain and the facts are with this 3 year / 300 hour thing, there is that no other brand except Evinrude that will offer warranty on a new engine and still let an owner go three years without a dealer service-that is FACT. As for the wink can you show me a 90HP 4-Stroke outboard that is 30 years old and until we see one( and an E-TEC or DI 2-Stroke for that matter the jury is still out), but at least mechanically E-TEC is based on mechanical components that have been around many many years in the marine industry in big HP outboards.

Yes find out about E-TEC because quite different from FICHT and the DI that OMC/BRP made. If you would like to learn more you would need to have diagonostic software but if you do and know how to use it I do not have a problem running you thru the procedure to not only test with what this software can do but how you dismantle the injector and what we do to clean them with, in most cases, very good results.

I think I will bow out now mate and if you want send me a PM if I can be of help and maybe if you have OMC experience you can start looking after some of the E-TEC owners in SE QLD probably better than the BRP dealers do-but that is upto you.

Cheers,

Huey.

[ssab1]

Hi, I am not the one throwing mud with the eye roll faces etc, but I am am justing quoting what is in the manufacturers hand book and in warranty, if it is not done as per the book, what do they say if somebody needs warranty? I know for a fact that the brand of 4-Stroke that we sell (and yes we too do service all brands) if it is not documented the services done as per the book, warranty can be a pain and the facts are with this 3 year / 300 hour thing, there is that no other brand except Evinrude that will offer warranty on a new engine and still let an owner go three years without a dealer service-that is FACT. As for the wink can you show me a 90HP 4-Stroke outboard that is 30 years old and until we see one( and an E-TEC or DI 2-Stroke for that matter the jury is still out), but at least mechanically E-TEC is based on mechanical components that have been around many many years in the marine industry in big HP outboards.

Yes find out about E-TEC because quite different from FICHT and the DI that OMC/BRP made. If you would like to learn more you would need to have diagonostic software but if you do and know how to use it I do not have a problem running you thru the procedure to not only test with what this software can do but how you dismantle the injector and what we do to clean them with, in most cases, very good results.

I think I will bow out now mate and if you want send me a PM if I can be of help and maybe if you have OMC experience you can start looking after some of the E-TEC owners in SE QLD probably better than the BRP dealers do-but that is upto you.

Cheers,

Huey.

Shame I am looking to buy a 90hp Etc and wanted to get as much constructive info as I could , unfortunately some royal oversized fish came along and turned it into a mines bigger than yours issue, totally clouding the subject one, thing that is clear I wont be buying it from a royal fish.Please PM me your details as I will soon be looking for a 90hp .cheers alex

[stevej]

Hi, never seen you ask-you said you did not know, but as I have said three times now-we do and I guess every dealer that you know in SE QLD do not go above and beyond and that is why I guess we have been in business for over 45 years. If they knew what they were doin it is easy to dismantle with the correct P/N tools and we have had good success with cleaning dirty/blocked injectors.

I wish you well in servicing what you service and you would make good money out of servicing the engines every 6 months as per the owners manual P122 of the new 90HP that you choose to specilize in.


do you tell your customers that with oil costs the true running costs over a 3 year period is the same across all engine types? if not worse if the engine racks up big hours

marketing bs at all lvls this is why etec cops the hammering when its mentioned, but i guess the truth in marketing has never been there so we shouldnt complain

[Jabba_]

When you have a good service rep like Huey looking after your rig and passing on there savings in oil, your running costs is reduced substantially along with the 3yr/300hr service... On the other hand, if your service center looks at you like your just another cash cow, which most them do, then running cost are on par with each other....

Unfortunetly blokes like Huey and Gary (Spaniard King) are few and far between, and the last thing I would like to see is those two dueling...

[Chimo]

Hey Jabba

They are not duelling. its just an alph male thing and they know we luv em both !

[charleville]

I see that Leisure Marine are clearing all of their eTecs...


http://img.skitch.com/20100516-kuiab3gb1tx5pxc2hd67aae54t.preview.jpg (http://skitch.com/charleville2/ddsaj/leisure-marine-home-page)
Click for full size (http://skitch.com/charleville2/ddsaj/leisure-marine-home-page) - Uploaded with plasq (http://plasq.com)'s Skitch (http://skitch.com)


.

[Boblee]

Hey Huey if you are still here are you the bloke on the Etec Owners forum? http://www.etecownersgroup.com (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/) in the states, same name aka Craig and same opinion of etecs.

I agree that all motors will have problems and some manufacturers don't stand by their product but Etecs and BRP do have a bad reputation for good reason.

Anyone travelling across the top would have to be very game to buy an etec if going to remote places as no one has the diagnostic gear to fix? them.

There are dealers on the East Coast, Darwin (1) and maybe somewhere up the West Coast but hey it's a long way to go if an injector shits itself.

Now a Yammie, Suzuki or Honda etc no probs.

[ssab1]

Hey Huey if you are still here are you the bloke on the Etec Owners forum? http://www.etecownersgroup.com (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/) in the states, same name aka Craig and same opinion of etecs.

I agree that all motors will have problems and some manufacturers don't stand by their product but Etecs and BRP do have a bad reputation for good reason.

Anyone travelling across the top would have to be very game to buy an etec if going to remote places as no one has the diagnostic gear to fix? them.

There are dealers on the East Coast, Darwin (1) and maybe somewhere up the West Coast but hey it's a long way to go if an injector shits itself.

Now a Yammie, Suzuki or Honda etc no probs.

thanks mate just looked at your link, exactly what I need to make an informed decision on what motor to spend my hard earned dollars on.cheers alex

[Jabba_]

Hey Huey if you are still here are you the bloke on the Etec Owners forum? http://www.etecownersgroup.com (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/) in the states, same name aka Craig and same opinion of etecs.



Yes he is the same person.. Graig is an Australian and has his own dealership in NSW..

[outsiderskip]

300 hr service crap
leg bolts need to be undone every 100 hrs to avoid seisure
also they got crap injectors
i had 150 went god for the first 500 hrs but was thirsty
then 2 injectors went got repaired under warringy
next trip another injector went
so i got rid off it now a proud owner off a honda
cheaper to run no oils costs
and very satisified

pete

[Jabba_]

Might be worth mentioning that your previous 150 E-tec was underpowered for your size boat..

But now you have a 3.4lt 200hp Honda and economy has improved heaps... That's not because its a Honda, it because its power and torque is more suitable to your rig,,, If I remmber correctly, your were advised the 150 was a bit small for your current boat...... I am certain a 3.3lt 200 E-tec would nett similar results as your Honda....

As for the injectors... I hear what your saying, and I agree pre 2008 models had issues with their injectors... Hence why they updated there injector to their BIP injector in 08... Their 08 injector still had problems, but mainly water in fuel and was causing those issues... Through out 09 and this year,I have not heard off any 09 or 2010 E-tec's having injectors just drop out ,,, and the very few that have failed were all contaminated with water via Phase seperation or condensation in the tank...

Leg bolts snapping if not serviced every year.. Thats a newy....

[Steeler]

Lets not turn the blowtorch up on the few engine techs we have on this site,it is there willingness to share there knowledge and allow others to pick there brains that save us do it your selfers a quid or two.

Just my thoughts

Steeler

[Huey]

do you tell your customers that with oil costs the true running costs over a 3 year period is the same across all engine types? if not worse if the engine racks up big hours

marketing bs at all lvls this is why etec cops the hammering when its mentioned, but i guess the truth in marketing has never been there so we shouldnt complain

Hi, for the average user with say an I-3 E-TEC, that is lucky to do 50/year, the oil cost would be about $100 a year even if he buys from someone who choose to overcharge in the oil. If bought in bulk that cost would be less.

Yes all companies have there own marketting spin and at the end of the day it is upto you want you choose to buy.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Huey]

300 hr service crap
leg bolts need to be undone every 100 hrs to avoid seisure
also they got crap injectors
i had 150 went god for the first 500 hrs but was thirsty
then 2 injectors went got repaired under warringy
next trip another injector went
so i got rid off it now a proud owner off a honda
cheaper to run no oils costs
and very satisified

pete

Hi, sorry to hear you did not like your 150HP and I wish you well with your new outboard, but we have plenty of E-TEC that run in salt water that at the 3 year service the leg bolts are fine, but you are missing the point, if you want to service an E-TEC every 6 months that is upto you, but you do not have to to get warranty and the fact it less than 5% of E-TEC will do anything like 300 hours in 3 years.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Noelm]

AH, good to see another e-tec thread go for pages and pages, still never stops amazing me why this is so, e-tec verses every other motor in the world.

[ozscott]

My general take on the ETEC, just following up from Noelm' comment, is that there are some owners who are impressed with them, but some that are certainly not and generally there is a distrust of this motor amongst those of us who talk to people about them (owners etc) at the ramp and elsewhere and it really has yet to prove itself to be accepted like the other major brands and types. The injector problems didnt do them any favours I suppose.

Personally I just cant see them getting the following of say Yamaha 4 stroke or Optimax for example, but if they do it will be after years of development and being out there for more than a decade...perhaps 2 decades (and that assumes they keep pouring money into them and do very well in reliability....certainly the advertising campaign was massive, so as long as the continued development and back up goes with it).

Cheers

[Huey]

Hi, I agree they do tend to drag on and I guess I can be blamed for that, but according to the latest industry figures in the 40HP and up clean market BRP have 34% share Oz wide and in some states it is better than that so there must be at least one or two happy campers.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Huey]

Hey Huey if you are still here are you the bloke on the Etec Owners forum? http://www.etecownersgroup.com (http://www.etecownersgroup.com/) in the states, same name aka Craig and same opinion of etecs.

I agree that all motors will have problems and some manufacturers don't stand by their product but Etecs and BRP do have a bad reputation for good reason.

Anyone travelling across the top would have to be very game to buy an etec if going to remote places as no one has the diagnostic gear to fix? them.

There are dealers on the East Coast, Darwin (1) and maybe somewhere up the West Coast but hey it's a long way to go if an injector shits itself.

Now a Yammie, Suzuki or Honda etc no probs.

Hi, yes that is me and i was asked by Joe, the guy who started the website to become a moderator on it and I try my best. IMO I think it is a good site becuase they are actual users, not a mates boat people, and yes we see issues all around the world and there are some very smart people on there that can sometimes help. I do agree and if going into a remote area all clean tech engines can be more prone to problems and with the equipment to test and repair it will be a problem and yes the injectors E-TEC use are not like automotive injectors. In my opinion there is still alot to be said for the basic carby 2-Stroke in these areas, because they are very easy to fix and if you get a bad dose of fuel no injectors, electic fuel pumps, VSR etc to block and you can easily clean a carby by the side of the river.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Noelm]

even though these things drag on for ages, if you sift through the crap, there is a lot of good info to be had (on any brand) I reckon some to and fro is a great thing, especially from guys who know their stuff (in this case Huey and Spaniard King) and even some "FRIENDY" banter between members about boats and motors and stuff is good fun, as long as it all stays civil then I reckon bring it on! and I guess to a point what it all reinforces is, ALL motors are good, all cost a bucket load of cash, and all can give you grief at some time or another.

[Flex]

Alot of E-tec misconceptions come from their clever marketing. I personally think E-tecs marketing campaign has made itself a victim in certain circles

When it first came out they made the technology sounds very secretive and pretended it was "new" and "space age" so to speak.

Hence alot of people think an etec is some mystical motor which creates alot of for and against and alot of misinformed people out there.

Why doesn't optimax or Yamaha's HPDI get the same attention as etec? its basically the same principal.

I wish a few other companies would bring out small engine DI 2 strokes too, I think there is a real market for it.
Im a big fan of 2 strokes on tinny's.Specially ones that sit in a shed for a year and not be used. Your average bloke with a tinny doesn't want to get a motor serviced every 6 months. Alot of us on here are hardcore fishoes so regular use isn't an issue. But for general population Im a big fan of old 2 strokes or etecs on your average tinny.Alot less stress involved(provided you have access to dealer when you do need it)

For large outboards its purely who is your best local dealer for best outboard choice...

[ozscott]

Learn something new every day....I didnt know they can run absent of oil and have pistons that are allegedly several times stronger than standard forged pistons...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbUAt1xtzZA

[Boblee]

Yep apparently can run without oil and water for limited periods but at reduced RPM of course.

Think Huey summed it up perfectly with this
I do agree and if going into a remote area all clean tech engines can be more prone to problems and with the equipment to test and repair it will be a problem and yes the injectors E-TEC use are not like automotive injectors. In my opinion there is still alot to be said for the basic carby 2-Stroke in these areas, because they are very easy to fix and if you get a bad dose of fuel no injectors, electic fuel pumps, VSR etc to block and you can easily clean a carby by the side of the river.


For me after a motor not running right from day one until over 400 hrs and over three years until I absolutely spat the dummy to get BRP to do what they should have done after the first few visits I don't think I could trust them or the motor again.

In fact to even partly compensate me they should have replaced the complete motor not just the power head.

We buy a motor to use safely on the water not travel backwards and forwards to the dealer to sit in their yard or to potter about in well populated areas in case it fails and then hope their is a dealer with the gear to diagnose it nearby.

Will be using the motor (with a new powerhead) this year for a trip along the Kimberly coast but without the backup of sails and a trusty 1999 Honda on the fishing dinghy wouldn't even consider it.

Already had the thermostat replaced after 66 hr's but if it makes it a perfect record of destroying every years winter trip it will be pulled from the water and carted home with a big sign on it for the 3000 km journey.


To their credit at low revs anyway they are absolute fuel and oil misers and when running are as good as any motor on the market but BRP need to make their backup at least half as good as the spin they put into their marketing.

The theory is right but to achieve it they have made it too delicate or fragile, where even changing a prop can make it run like a chaffcutter because the computor can't compute? and this is probably true of all the brands trying to achieve maximum clean fuel burning.

To be fair my 50hp is on a 26' Macgregor and it does have hugely varying loads but that is the motor recommended and the original fault?? was there under all conditions.

[cormorant]

5 hours without oil - my guess - part true part marketing.

well they only run air through the crankcase not a fuel and oil mix like a normal 2 stroke. With only air in their the oil is not washed off the bearings and components so they retain a surface film.

Now the 5 hour claim

Hmm well if the oil out light comes up ( from sensor on the oil tank) you still have a standard let us say 2m oil line from the remote oil tank. That holds XX ml of oil and at low revs they use very little oil. That explains part of the marketing. All companies do themselves a injustice when they give these details to a marketing department and the full story is not told - but it impresses the punter and gives the dealers a point of difference to jabber about. . Even the oil on board without the oil line included is a fair bit of oil at a very very low ratio. I would be surprised if a motor who has it's oil manifold completely removed would last claimed hours but it is under very litte stress at low revs and new oild are pretty good - I might be wrong.


I thought the claim was 1 hour years ago and not sure when it changed to "up to 5 hours"


If it was a genuine claim they should say in the warranty that a oil based failure is impossible if correct oil is used as the failsafe stops it and should be covered for the life of the motor. That is - BRP will replace any motor that ever has a bearing failure , heat induced failure ( computer and sensors should stop this) or bore scoring due to lack of oil. Guess water , mist ingestion would be the reason for failure .


All cars and outboards have used special metal alloys and forging processes with later surface treatments. To run lean , use a small metal mass , remove heat from the combustion chamber you need more specialised metals. Be it boron filled valves , ceramic coatings etc.

Good on BRP for using newer material , newer oils etc. All the other brands and dealers had a single focus point to say they were crap , untested etc and if you throw enough mud some will stick especially with OMC going broke and leaving a lot of unhappy dealers and clients.

Water through injectors may cause a minor issue but when it sits in them after the motor stops is when there is big issues in regards to damage to the injectors themselves. Even crap fuel ( no dirty) will go through but leaving it standing causes issues with deposits and corrosion. Lack of regular use kills a lot of mechanical things so fuel stabilisers may be well worth it for occasional users.

I think everyone would feel better with 9 year or 1500hr warranty.

[Huey]

Hi Guys, the EMM will allow the engine to run upto 5 hours with no oil at low RPM because unlike dirty 2-Strokes there is nothing but fresh air coming in the front of the engine so the oil that is around the crankshaft, big ends, conrods etc does not get washed away like in a carby engine. Also needle roller bearings at low RPM, which is what the EMM limits the engine to, running with no oil is not a problem. I have been lucky enough to go the BRP factory where these are made and seen what is behind these engines and also to the Miami boatshow a few years ago and BRP had a 3.3L engine idling in a test tank for the duration of the boatshow WITHOUT the oil line connected and it was fine evne running for 9 hours a day and the show went for 5 days. Basically they were highlighting this fact and do not think for a minute that the engine would survive without oil under any great load or high RPM, but again that is why the EMM has in built safe guards against running both with water and oil.

Bob, yes you hit the nail on the head, any of these hulls I have seen are very unquie and a guy from NZ I helped out the other day, getting the best prop from his local dealer (that was unaware of this prop)- he has said it has transformed his displacement hull. Good to see you are now as should of been and I can only talk from our personall experience with any company we have dealt with, and BRP have looked after us and our customers if we just tell them to make it happen.

There is alot of cool info out there if you want to learn more and the site that was talked about earlier is a great first step and then even go to Kens site where you will see alot of history on Evinrude / Johnsons.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Boblee]

Whatever they do with the oil it works as they use very small amounts anyway and as Cormorant says whats in the lines would last way more than five hours.

Someone mentioned using oil in the fuel, well they use a hell of a lot less than a four stroke maintained correctly, I have used under two containers of their special oil in over 500 hrs and some of that was wasted while trying to get them (BRP) to fix a cracked tank under warranty.

Huey

I have had absolutely no trouble with dealers in Vic, QLD or NT the trouble appears to be BRP themselves not wanting to acknowledge problems, you being in Sydney and close in more ways than one to HQ would probably not be aware of this.

I would love to know what was actually wrong with my original motor as it could help the many others with similar problems but that didn't seem to be a priority.

As for the prop, I am also going to use a power thruster, mainly for economic reasons not so much for cost but to utilise the fuel I can carry better as it's a long way between stops.

I still haven't found out why it was suggested by one dealer that the WOT rpm should be below 5000 against all other wisdom, yet doing as he stated certainly made the motor run much better without the "miss", will wait and see how it runs with the thruster but still have the original hydrus prop anyway.

[ozscott]

Whats the max RPM without oil Huey?

Cheers

[tednted]

Originally Posted by Spaniard_King http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=1163617#post1163617)
Huey,

I choose to service all brands, Like yourself no doubt. Like you I too have many years in the trade and have over 15 years experience in an OMC dealership(Including several years on ficht engines).

I will take up your comments with the 3 local BRP dealers on cleaning injectors as I would like to know the proceedure myself.

You can throw all the mud you like but you and I both know that any engine can go 3 years or 300 hrs without servicing its what happens down the track that mattershttp://www.ausfish.com.au/yabbfiles/Smilies/wink.gif




Hi, I am not the one throwing mud with the eye roll faces etc, but I am am justing quoting what is in the manufacturers hand book and in warranty, if it is not done as per the book, what do they say if somebody needs warranty? I know for a fact that the brand of 4-Stroke that we sell (and yes we too do service all brands) if it is not documented the services done as per the book, warranty can be a pain and the facts are with this 3 year / 300 hour thing, there is that no other brand except Evinrude that will offer warranty on a new engine and still let an owner go three years without a dealer service-that is FACT. As for the wink can you show me a 90HP 4-Stroke outboard that is 30 years old and until we see one( and an E-TEC or DI 2-Stroke for that matter the jury is still out), but at least mechanically E-TEC is based on mechanical components that have been around many many years in the marine industry in big HP outboards.

Yes find out about E-TEC because quite different from FICHT and the DI that OMC/BRP made. If you would like to learn more you would need to have diagonostic software but if you do and know how to use it I do not have a problem running you thru the procedure to not only test with what this software can do but how you dismantle the injector and what we do to clean them with, in most cases, very good results.

I think I will bow out now mate and if you want send me a PM if I can be of help and maybe if you have OMC experience you can start looking after some of the E-TEC owners in SE QLD probably better than the BRP dealers do-but that is upto you.

Cheers,

Huey.
Good thread This,
& good onya Huey for this genorous offer !! Patriculary after being accused of mud slinging !! I read back through this ,& I could'nt see where Huey through the mud:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
cheers AL

[cormorant]

1200rpm is what the safe mode allows

Enough to keep some charge output for radio and bilge , head to wind ( maybe) , some steerage . Probably displacement mode in terms of speed.

[Huey]

+1 to what Cormorant said-it is 1200RPM. Bob, yes it would be nice to know and the relationship of the dealer and BRP should be good. Do not worry mate I think I have a good idea of the issues and I still am about to fit a 250 HO to my new boat and I buy about 110 new E-TEC a year so I like them. Not sure if you have tried the Rogue prop, but that would be worth a shot and yes sometimes on a particular hull all the rules of thumb go out the window. The ideal WOT of a I-2 wants to be about 5600 at WOT but on some boats it goes better elsewhere and this is a big problem for all outboard makers. Put it this way, when a car company makes an engine it knows what car it is going to go in and easy to tune it for that. Now take an outboard, that could go on something like yours or a light weight alloy boat which will greatly change the way that engine runs and yes sometimes we have a bit of work to do to get an engine to run well on a specific boat. There are a few tricks you can do and that comes with experience. As long as say a 40HP is within 5000-6000 at WOT, than find the best prop that works on your hull and enjoy your rig because having done the hours you have it seems you use it more than the average guy.

Cheers,

Huey.

[hsv 408]

Hi, as I said you, can clean an E-TEC injector easily with the right tools and training and also easy to test them with the right diagnostic equipment and training too. I guess the comment about in 20 years time can apply to any clean tech engine, but at least I can show you 30 year 2-Strokes still running in the salt water marine environment. I work for myself and our family has been in the marine industry continually since 1964 and were one of the first Johnson dealers in Australia and over the last 45 years we have sold and serviced every brand of outboard so i think I can speak from some experience.

I wish all well with whatever engine they choose to use and all are good and the main thing is that you enjoy your boat because I for one enjoy mine and have being boating all my life.

Cheers,

Huey.
Haha thought to myself you might have something to do with seliing or servicing Etecs nice plug Jacko :huh:

[Jabba_]

Learn something new every day....I didnt know they can run absent of oil and have pistons that are allegedly several times stronger than standard forged pistons...




Not sure what your heard or read, but E-tec's pistons are 2.5 times stronger then forged pistons.. Not 7 times as your stated:smiley:

[ozscott]

Not sure what your heard or read, but E-tec's pistons are 2.5 times stronger then forged pistons.. Not 7 times as your stated:smiley:


I think I said several, not seven....

I recall they said 2 and a half, but when I posted I wasnt 100% on whether it was 2.5 or not so I said several.

Cheers mate

PS. I dunno....ETEC owners....they always amplify things by a factor of 2 or 3 (ie same as the TV ads...):grin:

[Huey]

Haha thought to myself you might have something to do with seliing or servicing Etecs nice plug Jacko :huh:

Can not see anywhere where i have "plugged" myself or my business by name- we do sponsor websites that then we can promote ourselves on, but not this one. I was answering some questions (in post 31 even though not sure what an ebomb is) about who I am and I have nothing to hide and from my posts it would not be hard to come to that conclusion. I wish you well with your boating and I am not sure what that face is meant to mean.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Jabba_]

I think I said several, not seven....

I recall they said 2 and a half, but when I posted I wasnt 100% on whether it was 2.5 or not so I said several.

Cheers mate

PS. I dunno....ETEC owners....they always amplify things by a factor of 2 or 3 (ie same as the TV ads...):grin:

All is good:grin:

[Boblee]

Only seen the ads once but they certainly get your attention.

[trymyluck]

Almost decided on the etec 90, if money wasn't a factor then 4 stroke would probably get the nod but the extra weight and cost of servicing is pushing me to the etec. Working on around 100 hrs a year and if I average 15 to 20 liters an hour then i'm looking at 15 to 20 liters of oil a year. So around $300 a year for oil plus a bit of routine maintenance versus anywhere from $500 to a $1000 a year servicing costs.
Plus the weight I'm saving means I can have an aux motor just in case.:cool:

[Jabba_]

You wont come close to using 15-20 lt fuel an hour in a 90hp..... I have a 250 and my average fuel figure though out the day is around 9-12 lt/hr.. That includes getting to the fish, trolling, idling, and using the motor to hold me against the current.

So in a 90hp I reckon it would at the least halve off what the 250 uses....

Worst case, if you do use 15-20 lt oil annually, the cost is $265 for 19lt drum... But there is no way you would ever use that much in 100 hours unless you motor is way over propped/poorly rigged or your constantly hauling heavy loads...

[trymyluck]

You wont come close to using 15-20 lt fuel an hour in a 90hp..... I have a 250 and my average fuel figure though out the day is around 9-12 lt/hr.. That includes getting to the fish, trolling, idling, and using the motor to hold me against the current.

So in a 90hp I reckon it would at the least halve off what the 250 uses....

Worst case, if you do use 15-20 lt oil annually, the cost is $265 for 19lt drum... But there is no way you would ever use that much in 100 hours unless you motor is way over propped/poorly rigged or your constantly hauling heavy loads...

Yer I figured that but if I over estimate then i'll be even more pleased with the result............:grin::grin::grin:

[Boblee]

Be surprised if you use 4 lt's but the first few hr's are a bit thirsty until the computor cuts it back.
The big surprise (for me) was the fuel and oil economy but I only have a fifty and run it at low revs mostly.