re-powering (read:overpowering) boat - Legal issues

[Salad Fingers]

Has anyone here actually had their hull re-rated on an ally boat to take a larger motor?
If so, what was the experience like, how much did it cost, did it do what you wanted it to do?

Boat in question is a stacer 469MP (which is now the Stacer 479MP - exact same boat). The 'new' 479MP is rated to a higher HP and more weight - 75hp & 170kg as opposed to my 60hp & 120kg.
The 60hp is just too limiting especially once the boat is loaded up.
I would love to have my boat re-rated to take the new lightweight Suzuki 90hp or even a Merc 115 (same weight as the 75 that the new 479 is rated to..).

My local stacer dealer flat out re-fused to even think about getting it re-rated ....
I can't find a contact for Stacer direct ...
I'm still trying to get in contact with some local ship builders regarding this as-well.

any other questions or comments appreciated.

[Noelm]

I guess there would be a couple of ways to go about this, call Stacer direct, the company that makes them is called Telwater, not Stacer, or get a marine engineer to check it all out for you and see if it is OK to do so, or get a boat manufacturer/repairer to do the necessary mods to cope ith the extra HP, are you positive the new model is EXACTLY the same as yours, but rated higher? lots of boats look the same, but are not.

[DHM77]

Salad Fingers,
I got a Stessl Bass Boss re-rated from 90 hp to 115 hp. Cost me $150 to get it re-rated and a new identification plate put in. I got Stessl themselves to re-rate the boat.
Regards,
Dave

[Salad Fingers]

I guess there would be a couple of ways to go about this, call Stacer direct, the company that makes them is called Telwater, not Stacer, or get a marine engineer to check it all out for you and see if it is OK to do so, or get a boat manufacturer/repairer to do the necessary mods to cope ith the extra HP, are you positive the new model is EXACTLY the same as yours, but rated higher? lots of boats look the same, but are not.

Yes I have been trying to find out Telwaters contact details as-well but have been unsucessful with that.. do you have any contact details for them?

and yes I am 99% the new model is identicle structually.

[Salad Fingers]

Salad Fingers,
I got a Stessl Bass Boss re-rated from 90 hp to 115 hp. Cost me $150 to get it re-rated and a new identification plate put in. I got Stessl themselves to re-rate the boat.
Regards,
Dave

That cost is entirely reasonable, I would be very keen if Stacer/Telwater would do the same for mine (but somehow i doubt it).
Did they physically look at the boat/modify it or just do it sight unseen?

[Huey]

Hi, depending on the serial number and therefore age of the boat we have had new compliance plates sent to us from Telwater doing this BUT you will not be able to fit anything over 75HP or 184Kg. You have to be within both limits otherwise warranty, if still within warranty and more importantly insurance will be an issue.

This was always something I bought up with Stacer because we have sold many Nomad MPs with 60HP and they go well especially with the right 60HP, but trust me, we have fitted a few with 75HP Evinrudes now since they have changed and there are a very quick boat, but more impotantly you can run around at 3000 RPM using very little fuel and that engine being the de-tuned 90HP is really pushing the 10% limit and the grunt is hard to beat-again especially with the high performance SST props we fit to the Evinrudes.

Cheers,

Huey.

[DHM77]

Salad,
To be honest I am not sure, got it done with a service and the service agent dealt with Stessl directly. It's quite a common upgrade, there are a few knocking about with 115hp's hanging off the back.
Regards,
Dave

[Dicko]

You could also take the plate off and throw it.

Fit whatever engine you like and call it a race boat, and it becomes exempt from having a builders plate. :grin:

[Salad Fingers]

You could also take the plate off and throw it.

Fit whatever engine you like and call it a race boat, and it becomes exempt from having a builders plate. :grin:

Yes I could do that - and it would all be well and good since the NT Doesn't even have any legislation relating to the ABP or Boat rego.. or licenses..

however I would also not be able to get insurance.. that is my only concern with doing that. :cheesy:

[Dicko]

yeah, I just threw it in from left field lol.

It would be easier than calling it a submarine..


6. Which boats are required to have an ABP plate?




All boats are required to have an ABP plate with the exception of second
hand vessels; an amphibious vehicle; a canoe, kayak or surf ski or similar
vessel designed to be powered by paddle; a rowing shell used for racing or
rowing training; a sailboard or sail kite; a surf row boat; a hydrofoil or
hovercraft; a race boat; a sailing vessel; a submersible; and an aquatic toy.

If you have no success with Telewater, just go to a local boat builder. Most will suss it out, brace it a bit if needed and replate it for a few hundred $.

[Jarrah Jack]

We all know insurance companies so the main thing would be to get a written ok from the insurance company once the modification is made. Never leave them an out.

Cheers

[White Pointer]

G'day,

Don't assume that the old 469 and the new 479 are the same unless you know that the materials are the same in thickness, MPa and installation, including welding method. Manufacturers are regularly re-rating boats these days to cope with the new generation 4-strokes coming on the market. These feature much lighter weight but heaps more power so hull developments may be aimed at safety through the water, not just supporting engine weight.

It is possible that if your boat is struggling with a full crew and all the gear that you are overloaded. A repower may just take an overloaded boat and make even less safe. Suggest you go back to basics and do the numbers.

Telwater makes both Stacer and Quintrex and are the only people who are able to give you qualified advice about this.

All the best,

White Pointer

[Salad Fingers]

Hi, depending on the serial number and therefore age of the boat we have had new compliance plates sent to us from Telwater doing this BUT you will not be able to fit anything over 75HP or 184Kg. You have to be within both limits otherwise warranty, if still within warranty and more importantly insurance will be an issue.

This was always something I bought up with Stacer because we have sold many Nomad MPs with 60HP and they go well especially with the right 60HP, but trust me, we have fitted a few with 75HP Evinrudes now since they have changed and there are a very quick boat, but more impotantly you can run around at 3000 RPM using very little fuel and that engine being the de-tuned 90HP is really pushing the 10% limit and the grunt is hard to beat-again especially with the high performance SST props we fit to the Evinrudes.

Cheers,

Huey.

Who is 'we'? do you run a dealership or something?
Do you have any idea who I would speak to at telwater regarding this? I still cant really find any contact details for telwater.
The boat is a 2007/08 model, so fairly new.

[batto65]

Who is 'we'? do you run a dealership or something?
Do you have any idea who I would speak to at telwater regarding this? I still cant really find any contact details for telwater.
The boat is a 2007/08 model, so fairly new.
Mate as some one previously stated Stacer / Quintrex. I think its 53 Waterways drive Coomera. They were there 2 months ago as I dropped some empty shipping containers to them they were sticking Stacer tinnies in them for export. Stacer ph #55859805 Quintrex #55859898. They are in what is called the Gold Coast Marine precinct. Hope you get some joy.
Regards
Noel

[Huey]

Who is 'we'? do you run a dealership or something?
Do you have any idea who I would speak to at telwater regarding this? I still cant really find any contact details for telwater.
The boat is a 2007/08 model, so fairly new.

Hi, yes have been doing so since 1964 and as i said depending on the age we have had new compliance plats sent that allow you to fit a 75HP IF it is under the weight rating as well. In fact the new 469 Nomad MP we have here has had this done and I can legally sell with a 75HP if someone wants it with that. It is upto your dealer to contact Telwater and they even have a form, which your dealer should know.

Cheers,

Huey.

[TimiBoy]

Salad Fingers,

Just weld some rusty spoons to it and everything will be OK. Salad Fingers likes rusty spoons.

He'll know what I mean:grin::grin::grin:

Cheers,

Tim

[FNQCairns]

We all know insurance companies so the main thing would be to get a written ok from the insurance company once the modification is made. Never leave them an out.

Cheers

or cancel insurance then re insure with the new info, afterall if done within the guidelines it is as legal as the insurance company chooses to see it. Insurance will see fitting without common documentation as an excuse (without a legal reason) to deny cover/payment pre or post.




If uninsured then there is no legal impediment to fitting a larger engine.

If something happened like say you hit a rock wall/someone fell overboard/whatever the law can only care about the larger engine if it contributed directly to the incident not simply because it was fitted.

Many of the larger manufacturers very often use the HP size as a marketing tool to better slot a hull within their line up of boats.

The ability to see common sense is where it's at.

[Doit Vila]

Hi, yes have been doing so since 1964 and as i said depending on the age we have had new compliance plats sent that allow you to fit a 75HP IF it is under the weight rating as well. In fact the new 469 Nomad MP we have here has had this done and I can legally sell with a 75HP if someone wants it with that. It is upto your dealer to contact Telwater and they even have a form, which your dealer should know.

Cheers,

Huey.

Hi Huey

I joined the forum today hoping to find an answer to a similar question. I have a 97 model Stacer Nomad fitted with a 97 mercury 2 stroke at 75HP. It is time to upgrade and I would like to move to a 75hp optimax. My issue being that the optimax weighs in at 170kg vs 138kg for a 2 stroke. The compliance plate simply states max HP 75, p.o.b. 5, length 4.75. I live in vanuatu and the only outboard supported by a marine dealer here is mercury.

The 75 has been great on this boat as we cover long distances and carry up to 160 ltrs fuel for safety. With all the extras for gamefishing (chair, riggers, twin everything) there is a bit of weight to push around.

Compliance not such a big issue here, but I want to be sure the boat can handle the extra weight. Any thoughts?

Cheers

[culbara]

Hi mate talk to this bloke
www.kpsmaritime.com.au (http://www.kpsmaritime.com.au/)
His name is Nick Lockier i just had my uprated from 90hp to 115hp he will tell yo what to do and his price is reasonable

[novice23]

I've been looking into this issue myself as i'm wanting to put a 60hp on my 50hp rated seajay hull. Seajay have told me under no circumstances will they re-rate my 4 year old hull regardless of any modifications etc. They did say they would re-rate a brand new hull if fitted from new with a console from new not tiller steer outboard (odd).

I spoke to club marine today and they said if i have an engineers report stating the boat is safe with the additional weight / hp then they will insure the boat with a 60hp on it. They said this will override the policy wording to the effect that boats powered with more hp than the manufacturers recommendations are not covered.

[colo]

I've been looking into this issue myself as i'm wanting to put a 60hp on my 50hp rated seajay hull. Seajay have told me under no circumstances will they re-rate my 4 year old hull regardless of any modifications etc. They did say they would re-rate a brand new hull if fitted from new with a console from new not tiller steer outboard (odd).

I spoke to club marine today and they said if i have an engineers report stating the boat is safe with the additional weight / hp then they will insure the boat with a 60hp on it. They said this will override the policy wording to the effect that boats powered with more hp than the manufacturers recommendations are not covered.


They would be able to rate it to a different HP if it was fitted with a console because you can use a different formula to calculate HP when remote steering is fitted compared to if it just tiller steer.

[Whitey81]

Novice23

I think they will rerate a hull with center or side console due solely to the fact of weight distribution. A bit silly with all the different weight outboards.
Cheers
Whitey

[novice23]

Based on my calculations under AS1799 if i change to remote steering the maximum horsepower will become 75hp subject to the maximum weight of course.

[oldboot]

Back to the original.......if you are thinking about uprating from 60 to 75......that is probaly a reasonable expectation.......there may be sufficient engineering tolerance or a minor modification to support that.

Sounds like some manufacturers will do that for you and it is reasonable to expect you might get it independently engineered.

But expecting to upgrade from a 60 to a 90 or further up to 115, I believe is simply unreasonable.


I note ther is a mention of a 97 Stacer boat in the thread.....I have a boat of arround that era and I think that was when OMC owned Stacer...... the plate will tell you the truth.

Telwater have no record of the OMC boats and basicaly dont want to know.

I was looking for some information on my boat...I have not tried Bombadeer the company that replaced OMC as the manufacturer and distributer of Evenrude among others.

cheers