The wrong message ????

[Pete62]

After reading an article in a popular mag I was disappointed to note a renowned writer describing how a Barra he had caught weighted over 50lbs on the Boga grips and that in his trip caught over 20 fish.

Is it not common knowledge that this practice is a virtual death sentence to these big fish or is just a view held by some.

If in fact it is true how does this send the right message to the masses they write to??

Pete.

[marty+jojo]

He may have weighed it in an environet.
Marty

[Pete62]

He may have weighed it in an environet.
Marty

You would like to think so Marty but the accompanying photo tells a different story.

Pete.

[Lucky_Phill]

Did the article say he released the 50lb Barra ?

Did the article say he weighed all caught Barra on the Boga Grips ?

maybe a good question to send to the writer via the magazine ?


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[Pete62]

Did the article say he released the 50lb Barra ?

Did the article say he weighed all caught Barra on the Boga Grips ?

maybe a good question to send to the writer via the magazine ?


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Good questions Phill, I can only assume that as stated "22 big fish were caught"
and it was in an impoundment that they would have been released. I guess one should not make assumptions.

I will send a message to the author and ask those questions.

Pete

[Scott nthQld]

Pete, as much as we'd like to think it, members of Ausfish and the like do not represent the majority. So is it common knowledge that lifting fish with bogas is a near certain death sentence? No, not everyone who does fish reads the mags, uses the forums etc, they just do what they think is right, wheterh it is the wrong thing or not. Not that I will hold it against them, a fish released after being held with boga's has a better chance of survival than one that ends up in the esky (whether C&R or kill and grill is your thing)

And yes dangling a fish by the bottom jaw with boga's does cause severe damage, I myself have been holding fish that way and seen blood vessels rupture (keeping the fish anyway). It also disturbs the fishes gut, fish aren't meant to 'feel' their own weight, so all their internals aren't as 'stuck in place' as ours, so stomachs get twisted etc, which is why the best way for catch and release is to not take the fish out of the water at all. Though this situation doesn't happen as often it caan and does, and is also a death sentence.

[Lucky_Phill]

The main issues with holding a fish, particularly Barra , by Boga grips is the extension of the vertebra which does hold the central nervous system etc.

It has been reported that a Barra of ( forget the figures exactly ) say 1 mtr will measure nearly 2cms longer after being held by Boga grips. This happens to Flathead as well.

When released, the bBarra appear to move away in a normal fashion, but in fact are in great discomfort and are more susceptible to predators or other environmental factors that shortens their natural lifespan.

Let us know the response from the writer.

Cheers


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[Pete62]

I shot an email off this arvo, will report on the response.

Pete.

[PNG1M]

I heard that lifting bigger fish in that way will rupture their gill latch at the point near where their gills join at the throat.

Hence, it is a death sentence even if released, as they'll die later.

It was a point of discussion a while back amongst the fishing club I was in, in PNG.

Many club members had to revise their methods of holding big barra, as they hadn't realised the damage that could be done by suspending them like that.

[Si]

interesting. i generally agree guys, dont get me wrong but cant help but smile at the IRONY. meaning what about the opposing forces between fish and angler when in the fight, at the towing point i.e hook in mouth??? fish pulling 20-30kgs (or whatever) of laterel force on one end and the angler pulling the same in another. I think this would also cause damage too.

[Pete62]

interesting. i generally agree guys, dont get me wrong but cant help but smile at the IRONY. meaning what about the opposing forces between fish and angler when in the fight, at the towing point i.e hook in mouth??? fish pulling 20-30kgs (or whatever) of laterel force on one end and the angler pulling the same in another. I think this would also cause damage too.

A valid point but I am sure there is a stark difference between what you have mentioned and a fish being hung by the bottom jaw with no support. It has been proven that a fish can be 2-3cms longer(dislocated vertebra) after an encounter with the Boga Grips.
Also, on a good week on any dam, dozens if not hundreds of Barra are released, surly if fish were dying after the fight their bloated bodies would litter the water surface.
BTW, I have not received a response from the scribe.

Cheer's
Pete.

[Steve B]

interesting. i generally agree guys, dont get me wrong but cant help but smile at the IRONY. meaning what about the opposing forces between fish and angler when in the fight, at the towing point i.e hook in mouth??? fish pulling 20-30kgs (or whatever) of laterel force on one end and the angler pulling the same in another. I think this would also cause damage too.


A good point raised, I think it would have a small affect on turning a fish..pulling sideways..or in jerky actions, however when the fish is 'pulling' 20-30kg...it is swimming away, in a straight line...it has the power and control, with a straight, fast and hard swim.

The BIG Difference is when the fish is out of water. Fish, and particularly big fish, are not designed to be out of water!!....body parts and organs are designed for relatively neutral boyancy. So when a fish is out of water hung up, its full body weight PLUS un-natural gravity creates massive strains on their neck and vital organs.

Does that make sense?? I am not real good at explaining these things.:smiley:

Cheers Steve

[mylestom]

Maybe I,m just getting old, but 20-30kg of pulling, must be a great drag on that reel???

How many would have their drag set at that level. Let alone rod/reel combination.


Trev

[Dezzer]

It has been reported that a Barra of ( forget the figures exactly ) say 1 mtr will measure nearly 2cms longer after being held by Boga grips. This happens to Flathead as well.

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This seems incredible. Out of interest where was this reported?

[Noelm]

I guess what it all comes down to is, they needed the photo for the artical, lots of people do "things" that are not exactly correct to get footage or pictures of a prize catch, sure maybe for a magazine or a TV show might make it much worse (perhaps) but it happens all the time, very few anglers are full on green, fish carers, most do the right thing most of the time, but we all do stuff now and then that others would see as wrong, almost any TV show around will have something someone considers to be damaging or unnessary.

[SWANO1]

. It has been proven that a fish can be 2-3cms longer(dislocated vertebra) after an encounter with the Boga Grips.


Cheer's
Pete.


got a red emp the other day at 53.5cm should of got the bogas out and weighed it by the looks:wink:
cheers swano

[Si]

A good point raised, I think it would have a small affect on turning a fish..pulling sideways..or in jerky actions, however when the fish is 'pulling' 20-30kg...it is swimming away, in a straight line...it has the power and control, with a straight, fast and hard swim.

The BIG Difference is when the fish is out of water. Fish, and particularly big fish, are not designed to be out of water!!....body parts and organs are designed for relatively neutral boyancy. So when a fish is out of water hung up, its full body weight PLUS un-natural gravity creates massive strains on their neck and vital organs.

Does that make sense?? I am not real good at explaining these things.:smiley:

Cheers Steve

yeah as i said i completely agree that lifting point at the mouth is worse than damage sustained during the fight. and yes i do understand when you talk bout straight line forces compared to small intense jerky ones in different directions. i just felt its a bit ironic we give it to em during the fight and then treat em with kid gloves upon release and photo. thats fishin though and its better than treating em badly the entire event. cheers.

nice barra in your avatar btw.:tongue:

[Steve B]

yeah as i said i completely agree that lifting point at the mouth is worse than damage sustained during the fight. and yes i do understand when you talk bout straight line forces compared to small intense jerky ones in different directions. i just felt its a bit ironic we give it to em during the fight and then treat em with kid gloves upon release and photo. thats fishin though and its better than treating em badly the entire event. cheers.

nice barra in your avatar btw.:tongue:


Thanks for that! Yeah your so right...we must inflict a serious amount of 'workload' on a fish during a fight, all fishing salt and fresh. It is really an abonormal event compared to their day to day living...I bet the lactic acid buildup would be immense, not to mention bariatric trauma from deep fish etc.

Cheers Steve, BTW that barra didnt fight very much really in the scheme of things...thankfully!! I would like to think ol homer (named by someone on here...cant remember) is out there still harrassing baitfish!!

[horseboy]

What about the the bass comps and the way the guys hold the fish for the camera thumb in mouth held up horizontal no support on belly. small fish but i know my mouth wouldn't support my weight like that.

[smashed crabs]

When it come's to Barra i can say they are alot hardier than most will probably think.
Barra can substain quite a bit of injury and still live to fight another day .

The only problem with a Barra is what happens after release, it might look fine , it might swim of nice and gently or even take of thrashing but it's what the Barra does after that is the problem.

I will leave out the bit about the natural preditors and go straight to what a Barra in stress does , they go to the bottom.

A Barra in a good release state will lay upright .
A Barra in a poor release state will lay side ways .
A Barra in a very bad release state will lay belly up .

Once you have hooked up a Barra and landed it the damage is already done , a Barra will do anyone of these three things regardless , anyone of these three states will depend on the Barras size , fight time and the condition and the fight of the fish.

As an example a small Barra that is caught and landed in no time at all will fair the best , whereas a Larger Barra will not do well and any Barra that puts up a major fight .

A barras chance of survival will come down to how much shock it is in before you realease it .

Now don't be fooled into thinking just because the Barra took of with a wiz bang that it is okay when you released it , chances are that Barra is a high risk candidate and the cause for the wiz bang and away she goes was from a shot of adrenalin, usually within just a few minutes or less that Barra will go back into shock and maybe lay belly up .

It's the belly up state that is the worst for a Barra but it aint over untill it's over and i have never known any other fish that can make a near death come back like that of a Barramundi.

Caught 14 Salt Barra one night with nets for a Barramundi farm for breeders , fish in size from 18 to 35 pound , each fish subsatained gill damage ,some with deep cuts , scale loss ect , each fish once caught spent an average 15min out of the water before placement into transport tank on a ute, from capture to delivery 9hrs , These Barra where is severe shock by the time we got them to the swim tank , all belly up.
Now when we got there the 5000gallon swim tank was not ready as it was suppose to be' the water was fresh and 10degrees colder than the salt, not good we thought but we had no choice but to try or lose them.
We carried each fish by it's mouth to the tank some 200meters and hurled em all in as quick as we could .
It was very sad to see them go straight to the bottom like a stone and just lay there belly up with their gills hardly moving . We sat there for 30min or so just laying there upside down , not to be out done me mate jump in and swam down for a look , he put his hand out and touch one of the Barra and the bloody thing took of doing powers runs around the tank .
We got out a big stick and gave em all a poke , all of the Barra did the same thing , big power runs and back to the bottom again , it was absolutely amazing .
Heres these big Barra just not wanting to be touched and still trying to get away , we kept it up for 3hrs and at the end of that had some swimming , some laying on their sides , then we had a brain wave and dropped in some small Barra .
The small Barra took to the larger like a magnet and this triggered a major response instantly , these big girls just wouldn't give up at all and just kept trying . Within 2hrs all of them where laying upright and swimming.

Within 5days we had them feeding , two of them jumped out of the tank and hit the dirt and that was a fair fall for a big Barra but they still survived , the wounds that some had where pretty bad from the netting , to the state you could see bone , within 2weeks the wound where pink and healed over.

Just goes to show how amazing our Barramundi truely is as a fighter "

Get your snap shots , hold em up or whatever , just have faith that when you release a line caught Barramundi the odds of survival are very good indeed .

The Old Barramundi is one very tuff fish :cool:

I hope someone finds this usefull :wink:

Cheers
Smashed Crabs > im not just all about boats :grin:

[Steve B]

Thanks Smashed crab,

Very interesting read. I have been sprooking for years that barra are tougher than given credit for. I remember in the Awoonga heyday 2004-2006, hundreds and hundreds of barra being caught and released, and I dare say handled with less care than these days....I dont recall seeing dead fish anywhere (except the filleting table). I have been ridiculed over this too by some..even friends. I was told they swim into the weed and die. Sooner or later they will float....still saw none (except for cold snap dead fish floating out of the weed).

To further back your evidence, I too have caught a 90 odd cm Monduran fish...stuck it in my livewell (it was a big sucker of livewell) for about 6 hours!! then transfered it to the purge tanks at the campground, where she went on display for about a year in the main viewing tanks.

BUT....Nowdays I still promote careful handling (like this thread is aimed for)....any chance we have of improving the survival chance should be encouraged. I think word is getting around fast about good handling techniques and this is a great thing...barra are tough...but the more help the better.

Cheers Steve

[smashed crabs]

Thanks Smashed crab,

BUT....Nowdays I still promote careful handling (like this thread is aimed for)....any chance we have of improving the survival chance should be encouraged. I think word is getting around fast about good handling techniques and this is a great thing...barra are tough...but the more help the better.

Cheers Steve

Im with you on that one Steve , i have a live tank in my tinny for Barra that just don't look to good after a fight (usually always the big ones) . I run 240v airator and a full circulation pump, i have had a few in there for many a hour while i keep on the hunt ,once i see that the Barra is fully responsive i pop her back on the spot , this one Barra i caught her twice within 2weeks , I like making sure i get these big girls back on the spot and quite often catch the better size eating fish around her , so in knowing 'this is the reason why i go the extra effort to make sure Barra are treated like gold these days , even though i know how tuff they truely are.
Im not into the catch n release stuff im in it for a feed but nether the less i make sure i play my part so i can keep catching the fish i want .

Cheers
SC

[Steve B]

Im with you on that one Steve , i have a live tank in my tinny for Barra that just don't look to good after a fight (usually always the big ones) . I run 240v airator and a full circulation pump, i have had a few in there for many a hour while i keep on the hunt ,once i see that the Barra is fully responsive i pop her back on the spot , this one Barra i caught her twice within 2weeks , I like making sure i get these big girls back on the spot and quite often catch the better size eating fish around her , so in knowing 'this is the reason why i go the extra effort to make sure Barra are treated like gold these days , even though i know how tuff they truely are.
Im not into the catch n release stuff im in it for a feed but nether the less i make sure i play my part so i can keep catching the fish i want .

Cheers
SC

SC,

See your from Ingham hey!! There is some talk around amongst a few mates of a trip up your way later in the year!!...we might need an experienced local guide!!:wink: :cheesy: ...let you know more later!
Cheers Steve

[Scott nthQld]

Here's one thing I actually gained from the fishing trip show with that 'stop the bus' tool, about barra. He was fishing with a guide in the NT, and the guide said pretty much the same as SC, about the state of release and what happens thereafter about barra, ie laying down etc.

The guide said the best thing you can do (in the saltwater environment, or fresh is there's other predators around) is to release them back into the snags, as close as you can get them, so at least they will have some protection whilst they recuperate, as during the fight they are putting out stress signals, and the spalshing and carrying on we all love to see will attract the likes of sharks, crocs looking for an easy meal...putting them back in the snags will as I said above give them some protecting from predation.

[Steve B]

Here's one thing I actually gained from the fishing trip show with that 'stop the bus' tool, about barra. He was fishing with a guide in the NT, and the guide said pretty much the same as SC, about the state of release and what happens thereafter about barra, ie laying down etc.

The guide said the best thing you can do (in the saltwater environment, or fresh is there's other predators around) is to release them back into the snags, as close as you can get them, so at least they will have some protection whilst they recuperate, as during the fight they are putting out stress signals, and the spalshing and carrying on we all love to see will attract the likes of sharks, crocs looking for an easy meal...putting them back in the snags will as I said above give them some protecting from predation.


Too right Scott, I think the snags also act as a current breaker to some extent also, thus reducing the metabolic workload of a fish trying to recover with reduced currents to work against...and the added protection from nasties trying to eat them.

Cheers Steve

[NAGG]

Here's one thing I actually gained from the fishing trip show with that 'stop the bus' tool, about barra. He was fishing with a guide in the NT, and the guide said pretty much the same as SC, about the state of release and what happens thereafter about barra, ie laying down etc.

The guide said the best thing you can do (in the saltwater environment, or fresh is there's other predators around) is to release them back into the snags, as close as you can get them, so at least they will have some protection whilst they recuperate, as during the fight they are putting out stress signals, and the spalshing and carrying on we all love to see will attract the likes of sharks, crocs looking for an easy meal...putting them back in the snags will as I said above give them some protecting from predation.

Makes a lot of sense in a wild fishery - I've certainly seen examples where a released fish is instantly sharked after being taken from its cover !

Chris