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View Full Version : Glass Vs Aluminium - "I've got nuthin"



Pete Makra
12-03-2010, 06:38 PM
Hey Guys, still researching first boat purchase. Went to Sydney Trailer Boat Show last weekend and still none the wiser. Saw heaps that I liked but got sick of the "hard sell" by the dealers. Still leaning towards aluminium but a few glass boats have recently caught my eye. Will more than likely be buying 2nd hand and only concern is not picking up any hull/transem problems on a glass boat. Know I can pay to get it checked out and will probably do that anyway.

Below is a Southwind I have come across that appeals. Not buying for another 6 mths but would appreciate thoughts from fellow boaties about the make, model, power plant and setup of this model of Southwind.

Mainly bay/inlet use just for me & the missus, with the occasional close offshore use. I would also like to go out occasionally on my own so need easy launch/retrieve. Cheers guys, Pete

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=8448291

krazyfisher
12-03-2010, 06:43 PM
would be a great boat to start with..

larfin
12-03-2010, 07:56 PM
Southwind were great boats.I have a SF640 and it would be hard to beat offshore very good in the rough.I would think the 500 would be much the same.
cheers
greg

cormorant
12-03-2010, 08:49 PM
In general terms I don't know of any boats built in the last 10 yeras that would have transom issues as long as motors and fittings had been fitted corectly. Materials and mass production in the last 15 yeras of FG boat building have got really good and there is not a lot of wood left in boats to go bad. Unlike boats of old with no power rating the transoms are designed for motors and since you can't get insurance etc few rarely stuffed because of overpowering.

2nd hand keep more of a look out for accident damage , poor repairs and proper service history's alomg with a quality trailer as after 5 years many lightweight trailers are looking horrible.

White Pointer
12-03-2010, 09:00 PM
G'day Pete,

I gather from your original post that you are around Sydney.

I lived in Sydney for many years. Sydney has great deep water in all of the major harbours and bays in in this environment a Fiberglass boat is excellent. It's when you get into shallow channels or risk hitting shifting sand bars or you want to run your boat up onto beaches that Fiberglass is a risk.

I live in Brisbane now use Moreton Bay and I would not consider anything other than a plate boat up here.

That will probably start some arguments, but that's my view.

Regards,

White Pointer

deckie
12-03-2010, 09:21 PM
If thats your first boat good luck to ya.
Good rigs and u may not want nor need to ever go bigger.

Cuddy's about that size are my personal favorites after all these yrs. The perfect allround design and so much fun.

Far too many have bigger rigs but get far less use from them and cant manage by themselves for a quick fish. Boating is about fun.

Sort of rig you can do anything with...plenty of grunt for its size, capacity to tinker and build your own personal fishing platform. She can venture offshore but also a great bay boat. Can tow some kids on a biscuit when the fish disappear.

If in Sydney go the glass i reckon. Once u have her visit a US website and buy a 6ft keelguard and slap it on the front so u can drive up onto sand banks, perch the bow on beaches as well as enabling you to take her out by yourself or to less luxurious ramps as u get more confident.
Just my thoughts

Pete Makra
13-03-2010, 05:48 AM
In general terms I don't know of any boats built in the last 10 yeras that would have transom issues as long as motors and fittings had been fitted corectly. Materials and mass production in the last 15 yeras of FG boat building have got really good and there is not a lot of wood left in boats to go bad. Unlike boats of old with no power rating the transoms are designed for motors and since you can't get insurance etc few rarely stuffed because of overpowering.

2nd hand keep more of a look out for accident damage , poor repairs and proper service history's alomg with a quality trailer as after 5 years many lightweight trailers are looking horrible.

Thanks Cormorant, whenever I make a significant purchase, I'm careful and do my homework. I guess if the seller susses out OK and the boat presents well with all necessary paperwork/service history etc, one can be confident doing a deal, especially with a later model boat. Would you still pay for an inspection though, cheers Pete

Pete Makra
13-03-2010, 06:04 AM
G'day Pete,

I gather from your original post that you are around Sydney.

I lived in Sydney for many years. Sydney has great deep water in all of the major harbours and bays in in this environment a Fiberglass boat is excellent. It's when you get into shallow channels or risk hitting shifting sand bars or you want to run your boat up onto beaches that Fiberglass is a risk.

I live in Brisbane now use Moreton Bay and I would not consider anything other than a plate boat up here.

That will probably start some arguments, but that's my view.

Regards,

White Pointer

G'day White Pointer,

Yeah, I live in Sydney (at present) but want to move down the sth coast eventually. Don't intend going out in the harbour, maybe the Hawkesbury/Berowa etc. We found a little place down at Sussex Inlet we visit often and this is where we will mainly go on weekends/holidays.

This area does have some shallows and sand bars to cross if you wanna go "outside" and occasionally, I might run the boat up on the sand, but not often. I'm also leaning towards aluminium for these reasons but I'm just keeping my options open as ride/comfort for the missus needs to be considered cause she loves fishin and I wanna keep it that way. Thanks for the advice, cheers Pete

Pete Makra
13-03-2010, 06:10 AM
If thats your first boat good luck to ya.
Good rigs and u may not want nor need to ever go bigger.

Cuddy's about that size are my personal favorites after all these yrs. The perfect allround design and so much fun.

Far too many have bigger rigs but get far less use from them and cant manage by themselves for a quick fish. Boating is about fun.

Sort of rig you can do anything with...plenty of grunt for its size, capacity to tinker and build your own personal fishing platform. She can venture offshore but also a great bay boat. Can tow some kids on a biscuit when the fish disappear.

If in Sydney go the glass i reckon. Once u have her visit a US website and buy a 6ft keelguard and slap it on the front so u can drive up onto sand banks, perch the bow on beaches as well as enabling you to take her out by yourself or to less luxurious ramps as u get more confident.
Just my thoughts

Thanks Deckie,

If I do choose to go glass, this is the sort of thing I'll probably buy, good size for me and comfy for the missus as well. I didn't know you could buy a keelguard, thanks for that as I will occasionally want to run the boat up on the sand, cheers Pete.

oldboot
13-03-2010, 08:49 AM
What ever you buy...go for a "first boat"..... because till you have owned lived with one ya realy don't know.
And in the first few trips you are going to dong it up a bit... a scrape here a bump there.

More good reasons for ally

Ya see em at the ramp....precious about their fibreglass hull, wont even pull it up in on the sand because its a bit gravelly.
Think about dropping you glass boat off the side of the runners or bumping it into the trailer while you are learning to load and unload:(.

Go the alloy and a little smaller that you realy want to end up with....probably a good usedy.
Your learning experience will be much less traumatic and if you look after it you probaly wont lose much on it.:D.

cheers

wrxhoon
13-03-2010, 09:15 AM
Both ally and F/G had their good and bad points, I own a F/G and prefer that because I fish outside , much better ride and solid feel , not scared to jump waves with the boat out of the water. pressed ally boats flex to much for my liking .
You have to be very careful with ally boats, if you bolt anything to them, the harder metal ( S/S ) will create a galvanic reaction and will corrode the ally very quick. Its best to make sure the harder metal doesn't contact the alloy.

As for running them in the sand bars the F/G will be fine but you will loose your gelcoat, unpainted ally will be fine you don't even see the scratches on the bottom. If you run them on the rocks or hit the trailer frame they will both get damaged.
I have an alloy trailer, I made sure I have a barrier on all the S/S bolts and U bolts so they don't contact the alloy.

If you buy ally you look for corrosion , if you buy F/G you look for stress fractures especialy in the transom. If the boat has ally tank make sure its not corroded, if S/s make sure its not cracked . the newer boats use plastic now ( just like cars do) I think they are best if out of the sun.

Check the trailer for rust , it usualy starts inside the RHS frame at the rearmost ( it goes in the salt ), check the lights and make sure the brakes work ( most don't) . In your case she will only have overide cable brakes , not expensive to replace. make sure she has brakes in the first place and don't believe the seller if he says you don't need them , anything over 750 kg total weight you need brakes. Tyres should be light truck, not car and avoid old or retread tyres . If the tyres have cracks on them they need replacing .

Its a good idea to buy one with 4 stroke or a 2 stroke DFI engine ( my personal preference), don't pay big money for an old school 2 stroke , they are smokey and use to much fuel. If you are looking at spending $25k on a used 5 mt boat , check the price of new ones and compare like for like.
Don't compare the 5 mt S/W with an old 2 stroke engine with a new boat that has a 4 stroke of DFI, or a trailer that need swork with a new trailer.

Buy a late model boat ( if you buy used) with as close as possible to max hp DFI or 4 stroke engine , have it checked by a pro or someone that knows and happy boating .

I live in Sydney , if you need help feel free to contact me via PM, I wouldn't buy a boat unseen or not checked interstate .

Jarrah Jack
13-03-2010, 10:11 AM
The SW is a very good boat very much like the 492 and 493 Haines Sigs, which would be on my shopping list for sure. A pocket game boat. If I got one with an older motor I would be on the lookout for a newer high tech motor but not in a big hurry. Something like a carby 90 yamie would suit it perfectly until then I reckon.

I wouldn't worry too much about hitting the trailer in the wrong place as long as you set the trailer up accordingly, which is the first thing I do when I get a new boat. Teflon on the rocker arms etc.

Pete Makra
13-03-2010, 03:47 PM
The SW is a very good boat very much like the 492 and 493 Haines Sigs, which would be on my shopping list for sure. A pocket game boat. If I got one with an older motor I would be on the lookout for a newer high tech motor but not in a big hurry. Something like a carby 90 yamie would suit it perfectly until then I reckon.

I wouldn't worry too much about hitting the trailer in the wrong place as long as you set the trailer up accordingly, which is the first thing I do when I get a new boat. Teflon on the rocker arms etc.

Thanks Jarrah Jack, I'll add the Haines Sigs to my list to look out for, cheers Pete.

Pete Makra
13-03-2010, 03:57 PM
What ever you buy...go for a "first boat"..... because till you have owned lived with one ya realy don't know.
And in the first few trips you are going to dong it up a bit... a scrape here a bump there.

More good reasons for ally

Ya see em at the ramp....precious about their fibreglass hull, wont even pull it up in on the sand because its a bit gravelly.
Think about dropping you glass boat off the side of the runners or bumping it into the trailer while you are learning to load and unload:(.

Go the alloy and a little smaller that you realy want to end up with....probably a good usedy.
Your learning experience will be much less traumatic and if you look after it you probaly wont lose much on it.:D.

cheers

Thanks Oldboot, I'm still leaning towards ally's like the Stessco Amberjacks & Trailcrafts etc. Around $20k should get me get me a pretty good rig with all the "gear", hopefully anyway.

I want to make sure whatever we get is not underpowered & I'm still undecided about 2 or 4 stroke. Plenty of time so will keep lookin around and posting questions here, cheers Pete

Pete Makra
13-03-2010, 05:07 PM
Both ally and F/G had their good and bad points, I own a F/G and prefer that because I fish outside , much better ride and solid feel , not scared to jump waves with the boat out of the water. pressed ally boats flex to much for my liking .
You have to be very careful with ally boats, if you bolt anything to them, the harder metal ( S/S ) will create a galvanic reaction and will corrode the ally very quick. Its best to make sure the harder metal doesn't contact the alloy.

As for running them in the sand bars the F/G will be fine but you will loose your gelcoat, unpainted ally will be fine you don't even see the scratches on the bottom. If you run them on the rocks or hit the trailer frame they will both get damaged.
I have an alloy trailer, I made sure I have a barrier on all the S/S bolts and U bolts so they don't contact the alloy.

If you buy ally you look for corrosion , if you buy F/G you look for stress fractures especialy in the transom. If the boat has ally tank make sure its not corroded, if S/s make sure its not cracked . the newer boats use plastic now ( just like cars do) I think they are best if out of the sun.

Check the trailer for rust , it usualy starts inside the RHS frame at the rearmost ( it goes in the salt ), check the lights and make sure the brakes work ( most don't) . In your case she will only have overide cable brakes , not expensive to replace. make sure she has brakes in the first place and don't believe the seller if he says you don't need them , anything over 750 kg total weight you need brakes. Tyres should be light truck, not car and avoid old or retread tyres . If the tyres have cracks on them they need replacing .

Its a good idea to buy one with 4 stroke or a 2 stroke DFI engine ( my personal preference), don't pay big money for an old school 2 stroke , they are smokey and use to much fuel. If you are looking at spending $25k on a used 5 mt boat , check the price of new ones and compare like for like.
Don't compare the 5 mt S/W with an old 2 stroke engine with a new boat that has a 4 stroke of DFI, or a trailer that need swork with a new trailer.

Buy a late model boat ( if you buy used) with as close as possible to max hp DFI or 4 stroke engine , have it checked by a pro or someone that knows and happy boating .

I live in Sydney , if you need help feel free to contact me via PM, I wouldn't buy a boat unseen or not checked interstate .

Thanks wrxhoon, lots to think about I suppose. Still intend to buy ally but keeping options open as suggested by others here. Like the stesscos, trailcrafts & formosas. Mainly bay/inlet use with the occasional fair weather outside trip. I will be buyin fairly new and have seen heaps of low hour rigs for sale by people who have bought boats and have just not used them.
Last thing I want is to choke on fumes and have an underpowered boat. Somethin around 4.5 to 5mtrs with a 60 to 75 horse on the back will do. I'm still a bit lost about 2 or 4 strokes but an not overly concerned about economy as I'm willing to pay for the privelage of owning a boat. I run an old V8 car and like it and "bugger" the cost. When I'm ready to buy around Sep, I might PM you for advise or your opinion on the boat i find if thats OK, cheers Pete.

gr hilly
13-03-2010, 07:31 PM
after owning glass boats for35 yrs i have changed to alloy getting to old for all the care at ramps bumps and time to look after a glass boat any more and the running costs for the less heavy is a bonus.good luck i ended up with a stessco and i am very happy good luck.
hilly

Pete Makra
14-03-2010, 08:31 AM
after owning glass boats for35 yrs i have changed to alloy getting to old for all the care at ramps bumps and time to look after a glass boat any more and the running costs for the less heavy is a bonus.good luck i ended up with a stessco and i am very happy good luck.
hilly

Thanks gr hilly,
I know glass boats do require some tender care & that is one reason I'm steering towards alloy. What sort of stessco did you end up with, cheers Pete

billfisher
14-03-2010, 08:52 AM
Thanks gr hilly,
I know glass boats do require some tender care & that is one reason I'm steering towards alloy. What sort of stessco did you end up with, cheers Pete

Fiberglass boats are tougher than some believe. Chips and gouges in the gelcoat can be easily repared. Even major repairs are not that hard to do and can be stronger than the original build. Anyway how often do you run into things if you take reasonable care? On the other hand I wouldn't trust an alloy boat that had been welded up and problems aren't that uncommon with them (especially pressed tinnies).

That aside I'd go for fiberglass for ride quality if I was doing much outside fishing. A good deep V glass boat will have it all over a pressed tinnie in this respect. Some plate boats are closer but tend to be very expensive.

WalrusLike
14-03-2010, 10:48 AM
Thanks guys for the knowledgeable posts. Just wanted to say that these posts are not just useful to the original poster... many of us are in the same boat...

(figuratively speaking... ;D )

Pete Makra
14-03-2010, 05:15 PM
Fiberglass boats are tougher than some believe. Chips and gouges in the gelcoat can be easily repared. Even major repairs are not that hard to do and can be stronger than the original build. Anyway how often do you run into things if you take reasonable care? On the other hand I wouldn't trust an alloy boat that had been welded up and problems aren't that uncommon with them (especially pressed tinnies).

That aside I'd go for fiberglass for ride quality if I was doing much outside fishing. A good deep V glass boat will have it all over a pressed tinnie in this respect. Some plate boats are closer but tend to be very expensive.

Hey billfisher, although I like the stesscos & formosas etc, I am keeping my options open. Have seen some great 2nd hand glass boats and my mind is not made up yet. Ride etc for the missus is a factor I have to consider as she loves fishin and I need to keep it that way. I wont be goin outside that much as I don't think the missus will like it, but you never know I guess. As I DON'T intend to run into anything, glass boats are still very much in the picture, cheers Pete.

Pete Makra
14-03-2010, 05:25 PM
Thanks guys for the knowledgeable posts. Just wanted to say that these posts are not just useful to the original poster... many of us are in the same boat...

(figuratively speaking... ;D )

G'day, good to see I'm not the only one lookin for my first boat. So many to choose from and if I'm gonna spend $20K+ on a boat, I'm gonna ask as many questions and get as much advice from fellow members as I can.

Have you narrowed down your choices yet, good luck anyway and let us know what you buy OK, cheers Pete

oldboot
15-03-2010, 08:33 AM
The other thing to remember is if you buy a glass boat, the price of your motor just doubled and your fuel consumption and maintenance with it.


If you could push a pressed alloy boat with a 30Hp motor you will need to have at least a 50hp to push a similar glass boat...not only does that make the motor needed bigger, it often means you have to jump up the range. making the motor considerably more expensive.

cheers

Argle
15-03-2010, 11:45 AM
G'day Pete, mate if ride and stability is what you are after with that budget you cant go past a 493F Signature. Im biased because ive owned one for 10 years but for its length you will be hard pressed to find anything that will ride as well as one of these boats. They handle very well my missus drives it with no problem, its very predictable will take you anywhere you have indicated you want to go. I fish solo from it and it is a cinch to handle one up, my kids love it (4 & 6) the high sides give them a feeling of being secure. Like I said Im biased but you honestly cant go wrong with one of these and the resale of them is excellent too.
Good luck with your search!
attached a lil piccy of my tub at Hervey Bay
Cheers
Scott

billfisher
15-03-2010, 01:57 PM
The other thing to remember is if you buy a glass boat, the price of your motor just doubled and your fuel consumption and maintenance with it.


If you could push a pressed alloy boat with a 30Hp motor you will need to have at least a 50hp to push a similar glass boat...not only does that make the motor needed bigger, it often means you have to jump up the range. making the motor considerably more expensive.

cheers


I don't know about doubled. Yo might need for instance a 115 hp rather than a 90hp which might be an extra 1-2K. Plus you can always go a bit smaller in boat size. Eg a good 5.25m glass boat will still handle better than a 5.5m pressed tinnie.