Yamaha Trim & Tilt Problems

[gouldy]

Hi all, over the past few months i have noticed that my 2000 model yammy 2 stroke 60hp outboard hasn't been holding its trim position while underway as i have to always keep trimming the engine out. It has started to leak fluid out of the rams as well, so i topped the fluid back up and bleed the air out of the system, but am still having the same problems. I have also noticed when it is sitting in the shed tilted up over time it makes its way back down.

I am wondering if i replace the seals in the two rams will this solve my problem or am i going to need to go deeper into the unit and replace the valves as well.

Any help, tips or ideas would be great.

Cheers
Gouldy

[Crocodile]

Hello Gouldy,
I have the same motor and am interested.
No leaks on mine.
I would think that leaking rams is the problem from what you have described.
On a side issue, is the electric motor cover on the port side going rusty near the screws on yours?

[trueblue]

if it is leaking fluid out of the ram seals you have answered your own question - you need to get the seals changed

just check though if the gland nut has come undone, there is an o ring on the OD of the gland nut (top cap of the ram, with 2 holes for a special spanner)

[cormorant]

Look for marks and corrosion on the ram shaft when it is tilted all the way up. No use doing seals if you have pitting or score marks on the ram.

Check with the dealer about cost of resealing one as some brands are expensive.

Pin wrenches are used by every hydraulic shop and most enzed style trucks will have one so don't get conned by having the dealer stand over you with a silly price.

[gouldy]

Crocodile yes the cover for the trim motor is going rusty as well i have been keeping the fish oil upto it to try and slow it down.

Now as for the ram seals do i have to buy the genuine yammy ones or could i get a hydraulic shop to provide me with the same size ones as what are in there now.

Cheers

[trueblue]

Look for marks and corrosion on the ram shaft when it is tilted all the way up. No use doing seals if you have pitting or score marks on the ram.

absolutely - look for pitting. Hopefully won't be a problem with the hardchrome, but it always pays to check.

[cormorant]

When they are out check the numbers on them and see if they are a standard - many of the evinrude ones are not and even if the seals are the very outside wiper seal is different.

Some non genuine seals will fit but are not stainless but that is a bit of a furphy as some I have seen in originals are not stainless either. Some are just orings in standard sizes. Have seen others fail with chemical attach and lack of UV protection- well that's what it looks like.

Some of the genuine ones are not that expensive and the biggest reason I have seen them fail is that the boat is being washed with chemicals that are affecting the rubber seal itself.

[FNQCairns]

yeah go genuine, one of the few times it's simply worthwhile, there is a little more than seals to replace but overall not that much, get onto that rust and put a stop to it otherwise the whole cover will rust to bits, water will get in at a pin point then it's game over.

your slow leaking could also be a check valve leaking, it happens. Give the unit a good flush with new oil and some cycling, it might come good, it might not also.

cheers fnq

PS you can use auto trans fluid for flushing to try and save money but then you will probably need to flush that out when refilling with taylormade. I only use Synthetic high grade auto trans fluid in mine, it's a little slower is all.

[gouldy]

What else apart from seals needs to be replaced to fix the leaking rams. I have had a look at the online yamaha parts catalogue and from what i can see there is the dust trim seal, the o-ring on the trim cyclinder end, back up ring and and back up ring o-ring.

Is there anything else that im missing?

[trueblue]

just be careful with the 'C' spanner, don't slip with a poorly fitted c spanner and damage the ram..........

hydraulic fitters nightmare when this happens............ ram then goes from perfect to stuffed in the blink of an eye

its not hard to do the job, just be careful thats all

[Spaniard_King]

WHen you attempt to remove the trim rams, ensure you have releived the pressure on the UNDERSIDE of the trim piston. This will make them 100 times more easier to remove. As always ensure the engine is properly supported when working on the rim unit.

[Noelm]

Spaniard King has given two very helpful hints (as usual) be very sure there is no pressure on the rams by supporting the leg, a hard wack on the head or a jammed finger from a falling leg is not fun!

[nedoleboy]

ive got yam 40 4st 04 with nearly 1000hrs and the same thing has happened twice now except no external oil leak. leg drops slowly and no external oil leaking.had it done 1st time under warranty ....just. mechanic swapped over whole unit.same thing on mates same motor.
mine sounds like internal.will check drawings for check valve.if i pull this unit apart what else should i replace besides seals and gaskets?ned.

[BM]

If the leak is external then that is likely your sagging problem.

The sagging problem is more often related to a shot valve body (certainly if no external leak).

The rusting trim motor is normal. Ugly, but normal.

The last time I enquired about a seal kit I was told one was not available and a replacement spear (the shaft) and top cap was the available parts at about $1000........!

I believe there may be a seal kit available for them as a genuine part.

As has been mentioned by FNQ, this is one area where you want to go genuine. Seals from your marine supplier are usually different to what you can source from a bearing supplier etc. I have often encountered the problem of no direct match between the old (genuine) seal you present to the bearing shop.

There are many, many parts you can buy aftermarket and there is no discernible difference in part or performance, but seals are one area where grenuine only is the go (from a repairers perspective).

Cheers

[dreemon]

Why is it the port side motor cover rusts and not the others ? ? ?

[Crocodile]

Hello dreemon,
I think that when the three screws are tightened they crack the paint and then the rust gets a start.
For a motor that is worth $$$$$ surely they could make the cover out of aluminium rather than mild steel.
I did ask at the Yamaha stand at the boat show whether the new models had non-corrosive parts.
The response was a grunting sound made as they sales rep walked away.
My motor has a list price of over $8K I would pay an extra $100 or so to get aluminium components.

[Spaniard_King]

Priced a second hand Tilt ram fro the wreckers today $200.00 Its a good one too :)

Trim rams.. go for around $100 each

[gouldy]

I have replaced the seals on the trim rods, topped up the fluid and bleed the air from the system. The wiper/dust seals is where it was losing the fluid, but now i have noticed when the outboard is in the fully tilted position it starts to fall now as well.

Whats next I was thinking of replacing the oring on the manual release valve and flushing the system completely. What is the best way to flush the system?

What else should i be looking at to resolve this problem.

[maru222]

same thing happened on mine. i bought a orginal seal kit for it (about 12 seals and o-rings ) and had a mech look at it . he only replaced the outer/ram seal which stopped the leak but the leg still sings slowly, so the inside valve s are letting the oil pass them

good luck
dave

[cormorant]

Check your overide bypass valve has seated correctly. It is the one you use in a tilt trim failure to enable the manual lifting of the motor.

Can take a lot of repeated cycling to get teh ai out of some trims

Not sure but some outdrives used to have burst plates as the overpressure valves didn't have the capacity to allow the leg to move quick enough in a solid strike.

[gouldy]

maru222 where did you get the seal kit from for the trim and tilt unit? I bought my new seals indiviually for the trim rods.

[gouldy]

Ok i have been having a bit of a play with the trim and tilt tonight and i have discovered that it doesn't always lose its tilt position. If it tilt the engine all the way up it will hold its position sometimes and other times it will start to drop.

This rules out the manual release screw so i am thinking that it would be a internal valve now. What valve would be the first to check?

[Spaniard_King]

OK.. you need to remove the trim unit from the engine.

Then remove the motor assembly

remove the drive key and filter cover

Then remove the 3 or 4 star headed bolts .. this will enable you to remove the gerotor cover, this is where it gets tricky.. several ball beasrings, springs and valve seats will fall out.. make sure you catch them all and it would be handy to note where they all come from. Hopefully the 2 gerotor pump gears will stay in the housing. you can now remove them.

to go any further you need to unbolt the pump housing from the un it.. 3 x 1/4 allen head bolts from the side. Be care full as there are 2 check valves located in the flange of the pump housing, these consist of the seat a ballbearing and cross pin.. note where and how they come out.. 5 o-rings seal the pump housing to the unit.

Now you can clean out the pump housing and reassemble in reverse order :)

gee I hope its not the tilt ram over pressure releif valve in the tilt ram :P

Note : if you have never doen this before I give you 1 in 10,000,000 of fixing the problem in the pump housing, I normally just put a new pump unit on :)

[cormorant]

I'm with Garry on this one - crap job as you never find the grit or problem unles sit is big and obvious. Once I found manufacturing metal swarf in one the rest were just put back together and they work or they don't. It is tedious to do and you an't rush it and just as likely to add a contaminant unless you are meticulous

I have seriously just cycled them many times and they have cleared and used the bypass to force the cycling and forcing the overpressure valves to operate by restricting leg movement on tilt. Have flushed one successfully without pulling apart but wouldn't reccommend that or the lighter aircraft hydraulic fluid either as it may stuff things of loosen up other contaminents

New prices are seriously over the top.

PS Haven't done that particular unit but if the overide relief screw comes out completely it is worth removing ( may need to remove circlip) and check it's seat , sealing area or oring as it may be that simple.