Sticking Disc Brakes

[Gadget Man]

I have a 2007 Sealink 4 wheel trailer fitted with an alko hydraulic disc brake setup. Calipers are the zinc coated, ceramic piston type. The actuator is a SensaBrake system. Disc pads are alko with normal steel backing plates. Rotors are one piece steel.
The hydraulic line is a simple configuration - into the first caliper, out of that to the second, out to the third etc. Only the last caliper has a bleeding nipple.
Problems!! : 1) Caliper with the bleeding nipple completely seized. Bleeding nipple completely seized. Solution : replaced caliper and pads.
2) Front brakes both sides sticking on. Found disc pad backing plates had rusted, expanded, and jammed everything up. Solution : replaced pads.
3) Front brakes still sticking. Solution : removed calipers, clean, grease slide pins,
force pistons back, replace, then bleed entire system. All calipers checked and moving freely on their slide pins. All wheels spinning freely.
After all this, hooked up the electrics to test. Brakes actuated. Released pressure from system. Rear brakes released, but front brakes stayed stuck! Light impact with a hammer directly onto the front outside pads (through acces in caliper) caused brakes to release.

My Signature 632F gets used about twice a month, always plenty of fresh water rinsing of the brakes, often after launching the boat and before parking trailer for the day.

I imagine lots of other trailer owners have similar problems. Is replacing the calipers the only option? Must be something better than replacing calipers every 2 years, I hope! :-/

[Chimo]

Yep there is.

Get a really decent pulley block with a hook and fit it to the cable off your electric winch to get a double reduction pull and haul your boat on to the trailer without drowning your rotors and calipers.

Lower the boat into the drink with a line looped thru a climbing "8" so it does not take off when you unhook the winch.

Since I started doing that, my many times, repaired / rebuilt 4 wheel hydraulic with electric overide trailer brakes haven't missed a beat and when I use the trailer they always work and never stick.

Lately I also use an airberth between times I need to use the trailer which if i had dunked it would probably seize totally between uses.

Cheers
Chimo

PS This thread probably belongs in the Boating section ;D

[oldboot]

Have you got grease nipples in your caliper pins ( well in the calipers)?... if not fit em and use em.

consider the calipers are zinc plated and the brake backing pads arent.....have you thaught about scrubbing the paint off the back of the pads and applying some cold gal and greasing the back of the pads.

have you sprayed the bleader nipples and threaded unions with lanolin spray?

Do you remove, blead, clean and lubricate your brakes at least every 12 months when you repack your wheel bearings?... some would do it more often than that.

cheers

[Heath]

I grease my disc pads before putting them in. By grease, I don't mean the pad itself, but the metal plate that the pad is on. Seems to have stopped my issue of sticky pads.

[WalrusLike]

Dumb question time. I am a novice... I dont understand how the grease on the backing plate stops the pads sticking.

By sticking do we mean to the rotor... so the wheel is difficult to turn? How then does the grease on the plate which presumably only contacts the piston face stop the pad adhering to the rotor? I woulda thort it would actually mean the pad wont tend to bind to the piston but that wouldnt stop it binding in the stuck on position?

What am I missing? (apart, of couse, from brains and good looks...)

[oldboot]

it does not stop the pad sticking to the rotor, it stops the backing plate corroding as much and jamming in the caliper.

remember the pad backing plate is captured by and therfore contacts the sides of the caliper.

it is very likely for a backing plate to jam in the caliper

cheers

[Alchemy]

I've had the exact same break set up for five years without any major problems. Trailer gets submerged for drive on/off every time I go out. Rarely do the breaks get washed before I get home, but sometimes I'll spray them with Inox, especially if I'm going to be out overnight or a few days. After a trip they get a good wash and spray with Inox.

Quite often we tow over 100km to the ramp and I have been told that this somehow helps the longevity, as opposed to just living around the corner from the ramp. I guess it has something to do with the heat and plenty of use the breaks get, but don't really know.

Dave.

[WalrusLike]

...remember the pad backing plate is captured by and therfore contacts the sides of the caliper....

Ah... the bright light goes on over the dim skull. Thanks.

Love this place.. learning heaps here. Probably enough to avoid some of the newbie traps when I finally get the boat.... so I will fall into the next layer of traps. :)

[Spaniard_King]

ZRemove the pistons from the calipers and clean the whole setup.

Then as dave has stated spray with Inox after EVERY use.. a few buck of inox will save you a lot of greif.

[Getout]

I am totally over trailer brakes. I don't drown my trailer. I wash it down really well. I am on my third brake re-build in 4 years.
The disc pads are the main culprits. The steel backing plates disintegrate and jam everything up in no time.
There must be a better way.

[DAVE_S]

I am totally over trailer brakes. I don't drown my trailer. I wash it down really well. I am on my third brake re-build in 4 years.
The disc pads are the main culprits. The steel backing plates disintegrate and jam everything up in no time.
There must be a better way.

I see trojan do a brake pad with a s/steel backing plate ,not shore if they only fit there calipers or universal .

[Chimo]

Hi Dave

I dont drown my 4 wheel hydraulic brakes either so I dont need and therefore dont wash them down very much at all. Just a quick squirt from the fresh water deck wash before I leave the boat ramp car park and I tend to use the controller to put the trailer brakes on a bit as I tow the boat.

Maybe if you dont get the brakes hot by driving a fair distance after you wash them this could be part of the issue.

IMHO normal brake pads (which I have too) rust and swell even when washed with fresh water if they dont get hot and dried out after the wash.

Cheers
Chimo

[ozbee]

chimo and others do you have sensa brake or other brands ,. because i have sensa brakes and have exactly the same problem . no mater how much you service them i have the problem .some days it fine then out of the blue it will rub on one enough just to smoke up . next time it may be a different wheel or not at all. my advice is when you start up have no brakes on . firstly back your vehicle back at a reasonable sharp turn this will push the piston in a bit as the wheels angle off a bit . next charge the system up with no brakes on . hold the top button down for 3 seconds twice and go from there . hope this helps it works for me

. one other thing i have done is taken the trailer light wires onto the standard 7 pin round plug . this enables you to move your vehicle with out the brakes in a emergency. hope this helps. the quicker sensa brakes become extinct
the safer it will be . there are far better brands around now

[Alchemy]

Ozbee, yes I had sensa-brakes from new. They packed it in a couple of years ago requiring a new compressor, but apart from that the sensa-brake actuator worked really well. So much so that I have a brand new one sitting in my garage which will be fitted to the new boats trailer.

Regards,
Dave.

[ozbee]

all i can say best of luck

[oldboot]

A thaught has just come to me from one of the preceeding posts.

so our disk brake pads are made up of two parts.

the metal backing plate and the brake lining moulded to the backing plate.

by their very nature the lining material is made of all sorts of stuff and will be at least partly porous.

is the light comming on yet.

so we dunk our brakes or get them wet washing them....the linings absorb water probably salty.

If we don't get our brakes hot enough to dry out the lining material corrosion will almost certainly set in.......regardless of what we do to the visible part of the backing plate

I still recon greasing or doing something to what we can see of the backing plate is a help.

But...yep I recon one of the best things you can do is get your brakes hot on the way home.......and as soon as possible after leaving the ramp.

I'm thinking a splash of fresh water over the calipers before leaving the ramp isn't a bad idea either.

cheers

[Chimo]

Hi Ozbee

I dont run SB. Probably never will, too many issues.

I run Hydrastar, old technology and all sorted so no issues and many controllers work with it.

Cheers
Chimo

run

[Getout]

A thaught has just come to me from one of the preceeding posts.

so our disk brake pads are made up of two parts.

the metal backing plate and the brake lining moulded to the backing plate.

by their very nature the lining material is made of all sorts of stuff and will be at least partly porous.

is the light comming on yet.

so we dunk our brakes or get them wet washing them....the linings absorb water probably salty.

If we don't get our brakes hot enough to dry out the lining material corrosion will almost certainly set in.......regardless of what we do to the visible part of the backing plate

I still recon greasing or doing something to what we can see of the backing plate is a help.

But...yep I recon one of the best things you can do is get your brakes hot on the way home.......and as soon as possible after leaving the ramp.

I'm thinking a splash of fresh water over the calipers before leaving the ramp isn't a bad idea either.

cheers

Good theory OB, but the whole backing plate disintegrates, not just the bit that contacts the pad.
I wish I had taken a photo of the assemblies I removed yesterday. The pads and backing plates were barely recognisable!
I did some homework today. My brake system can only be fitted with the regular steel disc pads. That, combined with the fact that the disc rotors are steel is real cause for concern.
This is a serious problem. It tells me that most over-2ton trailers have breakaway breaks that probably don't work at all. I have been driving mine around for a while with the brakes turned off, because once they come on, they won't release. I will fix them again and this time spray the whole lot with lanox, regularly. (I'll probably end up smelling like a BBQ!
It is a wonder that there are not more accidents involving big trailer boats.
I am thoroughly astounded that boat trailer brakes can be supplied with mild steel components, They may as well use plastic callipers.>:(

[Getout]

Hi Dave

I dont drown my 4 wheel hydraulic brakes either so I dont need and therefore dont wash them down very much at all.
Cheers
Chimo

I dont dunk mine either but the rear axle cops a splash every now and then.
The rear rotors are still rooted and all pads are cactus!!

[oldboot]

Good theory OB, but the whole backing plate disintegrates, not just the bit that contacts the pad.
I wish I had taken a photo of the assemblies I removed yesterday. The pads and backing plates were barely recognisable!
I did some homework today. My brake system can only be fitted with the regular steel disc pads. That, combined with the fact that the disc rotors are steel is real cause for concern.
This is a serious problem. It tells me that most over-2ton trailers have breakaway breaks that probably don't work at all. I have been driving mine around for a while with the brakes turned off, because once they come on, they won't release. I will fix them again and this time spray the whole lot with lanox, regularly. (I'll probably end up smelling like a BBQ!
It is a wonder that there are not more accidents involving big trailer boats.
I am thoroughly astounded that boat trailer brakes can be supplied with mild steel components, They may as well use plastic callipers.>:(


Yes of course the whole backing plate will disintergrate.......if corrosion is allowed to take its course...............the lining material contacts the whole face and fills the large holes in the backing plate, providing a very comprehensive path for corrosion into the backing plate.

I suppose it simply comes down to regular maintenance.

Unfortunately the brake calipers on trailers arent as well laid out as they are on some cars.....its not like you can pull a wheel.....yank a couple of locking pins.....swing the caliper away.........slap in some new pads and away.


Its a wonder there aren't more accidents with trailers period.

cheers

[ozbee]

the reason i get so pissed off is one decides to start rubbing it is only light enough to generate heat . when you pull up and stop to check at slow it will turn freely . this would not be a problem except 40 k down the road it has heated up enough to transfer down the disc to the hub . it gets hot enough to force grease out the inner seal and flick onto the disc from the pressure build up . results smoke and lots of it . enough for every vehicle to warn you . so you pull up jack the wheel and it will spin freely. off you go and another differnet wheel may start or none at all . worst part is how can you fix it as it is a on off type of thing. this has started from day one and sensa brake refused to acknowdlege the problemn from me or the dealer and when forced to delayed long enough to make it run out of warranty. even the dealer refuses to sell a sensa brake system now.

[Getout]

Call in the judges for a royal commission, I say!

[Getout]

I suppose it simply comes down to regular maintenance.

Its a wonder there aren't more accidents with trailers period.

cheers
Yes, as it is you are correct. I still think that it must be possible to supply a braking system that works without having to replace the pads every 6mths. Most boaties are not skilled to do it themselves and wouldn't even reallize that their brakes weren't working.
When you buy a boat trailer, you should have a choice- buy brakes that will last 6mths, or pay more and get brakes that will last a few years.
Its not the cost that worries me, its the unreliability factor.

[Spaniard_King]

GO, anything is possible for a price.. hence most of us have the regular steel brake system.

I will be changing my pads every 12months just so I get it all apart even just for a look... still gunna coate the assembly in Inox after cleaning with fresh water. Also I drive my tailer around a bit before reversing it ionto its stoage spot.. this I recon is helping.

[wrxhoon]

I imagine lots of other trailer owners have similar problems. Is replacing the calipers the only option? Must be something better than replacing calipers every 2 years, I hope! :-/

I don't have any problems at all with mine .
I have Kodiak S/S brakes , that is S/S calipers , S/S hat type rotors , S/S backing plates and ceramic pads . The rotors are 270mmX23 mm thick vented so they cool down quickly. I have this set up for 2 years now , not a single problem or any maintanence . The only issue I need new pads very soon because they are almost warn out , so you can see they work and they have done a few K's. I have a flexi S/S braided brake lines as well. All calipers have 2 bleed valves , I don't for the life of me understand why you only have one caliper with a bleed valve.
This set up is not cheap , the 4 wheels including hubs and bearings are $3500 just to buy and the Sensa on ther top of that.
Yes I have the sensa brake as well , it works perfect but I had to modify the signal because it was coming on to hard , locking them up all the time ( but releasing , no problem there ).
I'm not using the Aussie model because you have to use their evo controller and it's very expensive, if you use another controller it will stuff the circuit board because the Aussie model works on zero to 5 volt and the cars system is 13-14 volt. In the good old USA where they have to compete with 3 others , Hydrastar, Dexter and brakerite they use zero -13 volt on their boards so the yank trucks that have their own electric brakes can use it .
Before I use to have a hydrastar , no probs at all but a little slow to react, thats why I bought the Sensa for this trailer and the fact that I was told they sorted out all the problems they had . Compressors burned out and running out of air because the tank was to small.

I may say I had S/S brakes with a Hydrastar in my previous trailer for 10 years without any problems at all besides the solid 15mm rotors getting very hot .

If you want trouble free brakes that work you need S/Steel , the only way to go if you dunk them in the salt water . You can use any actuator you like , the normal hydro USA built actuators are not as slow as they use to be either but can never be instant like the Sensa. The other thing with the Sensa you don't need a battery for the brake -away system .
I have a normal 7 pin for the lights and another 3 pin plug for the Sensa , when I park the trailer on the boat ramp i pull the Sensa plug off and tuck it in the draw bar , the Sensa is covered so you can't see it. If someone desides to steal my trailer the wheels will not turn as they are locked , unless you know what to look for you are stuffed .

[Getout]

For a moment there, I thought you were describing the brakes on your Subaru!!
Who sells Kodiak gear locally?

[wrxhoon]

Who sells Kodiak gear locally?


No idea if anyone sells them in Australia, they would be to expensive if they did.

I bought mine in USA, I buy most my boat bits there .


My Liberty STI has much better brakes than the Kodiaks !!!

[Fish_gutz]

Tac 2 adhesive lubricant sprayed all over calipers , discs and pads etc after each wash , the residue left on the discs burns off at the first set of lights and nothing sticks or seizes and I also never leave the brakes locked on while sitting at home , chock it with bricks if you have to as it`s normally when they are left sitting locked up that I used to find they were seized up for the next trip out the driveway.
Last time I went through this it was the backing plate on the disc pads which had corroded and swelled to the point that they snapped in half and dropped out on the gutter! had the lot reconditioned and keep the tac2 up to them and they still look the goods and still pull the trailer up no worries. Cheers Andrew

[DAVE_S]

Just got word from trojan brakes that later in the year 2010 they will be bringing out a universal brake pad with a stainless backing plate .
They have one now but it only fits one type of caliper .

[jjlm]

I don't have any problems at all with mine .
I have Kodiak S/S brakes , that is S/S calipers , S/S hat type rotors , S/S backing plates and ceramic pads . The rotors are 270mmX23 mm thick vented so they cool down quickly. I have this set up for 2 years now , not a single problem or any maintanence . The only issue I need new pads very soon because they are almost warn out , so you can see they work and they have done a few K's. I have a flexi S/S braided brake lines as well. All calipers have 2 bleed valves , I don't for the life of me understand why you only have one caliper with a bleed valve.
This set up is not cheap , the 4 wheels including hubs and bearings are $3500 just to buy and the Sensa on ther top of that.
Yes I have the sensa brake as well , it works perfect but I had to modify the signal because it was coming on to hard , locking them up all the time ( but releasing , no problem there ).
I'm not using the Aussie model because you have to use their evo controller and it's very expensive, if you use another controller it will stuff the circuit board because the Aussie model works on zero to 5 volt and the cars system is 13-14 volt. In the good old USA where they have to compete with 3 others , Hydrastar, Dexter and brakerite they use zero -13 volt on their boards so the yank trucks that have their own electric brakes can use it .
Before I use to have a hydrastar , no probs at all but a little slow to react, thats why I bought the Sensa for this trailer and the fact that I was told they sorted out all the problems they had . Compressors burned out and running out of air because the tank was to small.

I may say I had S/S brakes with a Hydrastar in my previous trailer for 10 years without any problems at all besides the solid 15mm rotors getting very hot .

If you want trouble free brakes that work you need S/Steel , the only way to go if you dunk them in the salt water . You can use any actuator you like , the normal hydro USA built actuators are not as slow as they use to be either but can never be instant like the Sensa. The other thing with the Sensa you don't need a battery for the brake -away system .
I have a normal 7 pin for the lights and another 3 pin plug for the Sensa , when I park the trailer on the boat ramp i pull the Sensa plug off and tuck it in the draw bar , the Sensa is covered so you can't see it. If someone desides to steal my trailer the wheels will not turn as they are locked , unless you know what to look for you are stuffed .
\hi could u tell me where from the US to import kodiak brakes most places dont export here regards jack

[matmuller85]

From a professional point of view, alot of trailer manufacturers are using a car caliper which they have tryed to marinise, for a fact these type of calipers will fail all the time and the psitons will form a rust ring around them which causes the sticking unfotunatley there is little you can do. Tregg brothers have a very good quailty caliper ( PS alko is all chinese made cheap stainless if you can call it that). My clients that i service i recomend they make the calipers move 3 to 4 times a week at a minimum as this will decrease the chance of the rust forming and the caliper so called seizing.

[Swerve]

Good read guys, doing some homework as my 2007 dunbier trailer with hyrdrastar and hydraulic calipers has died (owned since new)


A few pads had fallin out, as I guess the backing plates have died, pad cracked and gone, two pistons have been braking direct on the discs.

Have just ordered some news discs, but nut sure on calipers, due to my boat design I fully submerge the calipers and they have lasted 6 years with only one service in that time, really cant complain.

Umming on the galvanized alko calipers or the stainless at twice the price. But based on cost might need to get the galvanized unless the stainless will make a huge difference. But really biggest issue appears to be the sticking pads, which I also suffered from, but would come good and go etc.

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[scottar]

I have the sensabrake on my trailer. No issues to date. One thing the mechanic from the dealership did indicate was a good thing to do, was to disconnect and release the brakes before launching. I can only assume this minimises the area of the piston that is out past the seal and therefore exposed to the salt water. That coupled with regular doses of lanolin after a thorough wash and allowing to dry seems to be doing the trick so far at least.

[baitable]

I re- did all my calipers due to this very issue. In short i think it cost approx 130/caliper plus brake pad. I ended up re using alko products however i lanolined everything bar the brake pad itself and greased all the pins. So far no issues after 1 year, everything is functioning perfectly. Its a very simple process to do yourself and furthermore you know its done right upon the installation. Go for open heart surgery and skip the bandaid, not worth ruining a fishing trip over imo.

[Swerve]

I have the sensabrake on my trailer. No issues to date. One thing the mechanic from the dealership did indicate was a good thing to do, was to disconnect and release the brakes before launching. I can only assume this minimises the area of the piston that is out past the seal and therefore exposed to the salt water. That coupled with regular doses of lanolin after a thorough wash and allowing to dry seems to be doing the trick so far at least.

On that note I ALWAYS disconnect the brakes and lights when launching/ recovering. You might have a point about less piston exposure to saltwater

[undasize]

Hi, Thought id add my 2 cents worth as i re build my dunbier brakes every year and just finished it again recently . When i first bought the trailer new i covered every bit of the trailer in lanolin - big mistake ended up causing "white rust" and making the trailer look 10 years old , wont do that again ! after each trip i sprayed the brakes in inox too , after 6 months a piston wouldnt retract jamming the brake of that wheel on whilst driving home which made the rim that hot i couldnt touch it ! After talking to dunbier and looking at the other wheels the penny dropped that one of the 2 products id been using had swollen the rubber piston boots and the rubber caliper slide boots and let salt water into the slides and pistons ! I replaced all the rubber boots on all 4 calipers and filled the inside of the piston boot with rubber grease, on the outside of the boot and especially the slides i use Molykote 111 , its a very thick tacky silicon grease the doesnt affect the rubber , i smear molykote on the rear of all the brake pads and after approx 12months the molykote was still there and there was no major rusting of the brake pads except for a little bit around the edges and a ring where the piston had been pushing on it . Hope that helps someone ? molykote has helped me but still strip and check my brakes once a year anyway . im in the process of making 4 small ally plates to cover the front of the caliper as some of the rubbers were damaged on the 100 ks of gravel into stanage last year , not sure if it will cause any type of brake overheating issuses but ill give it a go. Cheers Shannon

[scottar]

Yup. Inox does nasty things to rubber. I used it on a previous outboard for a period of time and had to replace the seal between the leg and the lower cowling where it had sat and destroyed the rubber. A client told me about it after it killed a hose in a vintage car of his and caused major damage.

[Swerve]

Good tips Undasize