Wiring

[PinHead]

I have done a 2minute sketch of proposed wiring for the new tinny when it arrives. Does this look correct ???

[Far side]

Not going to bother with a bilge pump

And i would put a main fuse at the battery terminals

[PinHead]

no bilge pump.
why a main fuse at the battery when everything else it protected separately ?

[Adam_G]

Maybe give yourself a negative rail so all the returns aren't under the one battery post.

[hodges4]

Fuse at the battery is there in case the wiring from the battery is shorted somehow. May prevent a possible fire. It's not there to protect any of the equipment.

[pig75]

To protect the wire ruining to the battery. Add up all the fusees and that is the size of the main fuse. Make sure the main wire is big enough

[bundylundy]

I also would put in a battery isolator switch.

Jeff.

[finga]

Yep, master fuse or circuit breaker at the battery.
Yep, negative link or similar. Use the same for the + bus-bar or link.
I use panel mounted fuse holders for convenience and, when fuses etc are coated with lanolin grease, are pretty fool proof. They also save looking for an inline fuse when something goes all pear shaped.
I would not use one of those pre-made fuse/switch panel. Personal preference only.
Have you given any thought into what the switches/fuses/panel is going to mount too?? ie box

Personally I use the one switch for nav. and anchor lights. Saves confusion on what needs to be on and when.

When you get a shopping list give me a cooee.
I have all the tinned wire (lots of colours and sizes from 1mm-10mm), switches, fuses, circuit breakers (either auto reset or manual), split corro conduit to do the job and I can make a custom panel up for you.

Oh...just thought....I would not use toggle switches either for a boat in the briney all the time. I have not seen one yet last any time at all. I'd use the push/pull switches like these and solder the spots where the terminals are 'riveted'. They also come in 2 position for the nav./anchor lights. And the terminals have screw connections, not the spade lug type which play up at the most inconvenient time...without fail.

http://www.biasboating.com.au/images/PRODUCT/icon/381.jpg
And labels....labels for everything ;D

[PinHead]

I will probably be using rocker switches.
The rough sketch is a schematic only..both pos and neg will be onto busbars.
BUT..I still have a problem working out why a fuse on the main wire is required???
This low voltage stuff annoys the crap out of me..gimme 3 phase any day.

[finga]

BUT..I still have a problem working out why a fuse on the main wire is required???
This low voltage stuff annoys the crap out of me..gimme 3 phase any day.
The same reason you have a fuse on the mains going into your house...especially if underground.
It protects your supply ie fault currents do not enter the distribution system, as well as protecting your mains from fault currents and burning up.

[Angla]

I will probably be using rocker switches.
The rough sketch is a schematic only..both pos and neg will be onto busbars.
BUT..I still have a problem working out why a fuse on the main wire is required???
This low voltage stuff annoys the crap out of me..gimme 3 phase any day.


I would be more inclined to install the battery isolator as close to the battery as possible and then just run your heavy cable in a safe manner to the positive and negative links.

No main fuse as this is just another point asking for corrosion. the individual fuse protection should be all that is required so that one appliance does not affect all the appliances.

Cheers
Chris

[Heath]

A fuse on the main wire is required incase you have a short somewhere between the battery and your bus bar or switch panel.
It is best located as close to the battery as possible.

[finga]

I would be more inclined to install the battery isolator as close to the battery as possible and then just run your heavy cable in a safe manner to the positive and negative links.

No main fuse as this is just another point asking for corrosion. the individual fuse protection should be all that is required so that one appliance does not affect all the appliances.

Cheers
Chris
Fuse...isolator....same number of joints....or points of potential corrosion.
An isolator is not required IF the wiring is up to scratch. And if you want to isloate just pull the fuse or trip the circuit breaker
Cars don't have an isolator and a lot of boats from the factory don't either.

I have to admit I'm a bit pedantic about circuit protection :-/

The way I look at it and rough rule of thumb everytime you change the size of your wire you need a fuse or form of circuit protection.

[Adam_G]

This low voltage stuff annoys the crap out of me..gimme 3 phase any day.


You mean extra low voltage. :-X sorry I'm a sucker for these details.

[oldboot]

have a look at the Bluesea, fuseboxes stocked by whitworths....they come in 6 and 12way ( I think).......they have a common positive for the fuses ( blade) and a negative common at the top of the box..what isn't plastic is stanless.......very nice.

The fuse holders that come with many of the premade panels are absolute rubbish.......I simply could not get the covers off the fuse holders with bare hands...and when I pulled them off with pliers they were ###ed.....obviously designed to be made from soft rubber and cast from hardish plastic....the putting a fuse in was a struggle.....all mine went in the bin....Oh and you don't get a fuse for every switch.

yeh gota have a main fuse......easy done... waterproof inline blade fuseholder fitted right at the battery.

Finga & I dont always agree on soldering but I would solder the rivets indicated by Finga too if that switch was used.

If you still want to use toggle switches.... buy rubber boots seperately and source your switches from a better supplier.

With so many boats burning ( at least 1 or 2 we hear of each summer) running a main fuse is a definite must.....I would certainly prefeer an isolator... the red key coppies of the hella arent bad and cheap enough......you'll need at least a 30 amp rated switch... and once you get past 20 amps @12DC normal toggles get but thin on the ground.

Jaycar/ electus have some nice IP trated boxes that you can build in...they will be getting some new ones in with hinged lids ( clear or opaque), catches and a little gal chasis inside......

cheers

[BaitThrower]

Personally I use the one switch for nav. and anchor lights. Saves confusion on what needs to be on and when.


So when you are anchored, your nav lights are still on too?
You are going to confuse other boaties doing that.... :-[

[finga]

So when you are anchored, your nav lights are still on too?
You are going to confuse other boaties doing that.... :-[
I use a two position switch.
On one of the position ALL the lights required for running are on.
When the switch is put onto the other position all the lights required for anchoring are on.
So instead of having a switch for nav. lights (red and green) and a separate switch for the all round light I normally make the lights switch for running and at anchor.
A two position switch is a bit like a light switch in your car or a 2 speed A/C fan selector switch in your car.
Sorry for any confusion and thanks for asking for clarification :)

[trueblue]

I did my new wiring with a master fuse between the battery and isolator switch on the positive wires

I also ran 2 circuits - one for instruments only, and another circuit for general house stuff

for busbars (pos and neg) I bought clipsal terminal block bars in red and black

each appliance has its own individual fuse of the right size

took a long time and a heap of cash to do a good job of it, but now it is all perfect and individually protected as well as having a master fuse incase something shorts out between the battery and the busbars.

very pedantic I know, but I wanted to do a flash job of it so I did

cheers

Mick

[oldboot]

Quit a lot of people ( including quite a few "new boats" use the clipsal active and neutral links for commons...... personaly I don't like them for that purpose......screw terminals directly onto wire particularly fine stranded wire, in my opinion presents both a corrosion and vibration issue.
I would prefeer to see a lug ( even a soldered one) or a direct soldered connection rather than a screwed direct to wire termination.
These blocks were designed for houses where the wire used is both solid or heavy stranded.


there are quite a few "marine" commoning blocks available and fuse boxes like the Blue sea one I mentioned that have the positive and negative common built in are a neat and convienient solution.

cheers

[trueblue]

Quit a lot of people ( including quite a few "new boats" use the clipsal active and neutral links for commons...... personaly I don't like them for that purpose......screw terminals directly onto wire particularly fine stranded wire, in my opinion presents both a corrosion and vibration issue.
I would prefeer to see a lug ( even a soldered one) or a direct soldered connection rather than a screwed direct to wire termination.
These blocks were designed for houses where the wire used is both solid or heavy stranded.


there are quite a few "marine" commoning blocks available and fuse boxes like the Blue sea one I mentioned that have the positive and negative common built in are a neat and convienient solution.

cheers

They were not my first choice, however due to the large number of wires I was running, and the fact that the first set of clipsal links lasted 10 years without any corrosion whatsoever due to being in a dry location, I went with them again

cheers

Mick

[QF3 MROCP]

I have to ask... where's the circuit for the VHF Marine Radio.. I see the Sounder and GPS got a position!

From a CG point of view, we have a main isolator and circuit breaker between the battery and fuse link. The isolator right next to the batery so in case of fire - immediate shut down access is available. The circuit breakers are also located in the same area.

Two sets of batteries as well, but then we have a big boat with room to spare

www.vhfradiocourse.com (http://www.vhfradiocourse.com)

Peter

[bugman]

Greg,
Your pretty much on the money there. I wired my Brooker with basically the same pattern. I didn't bother with a main fuse. Didn't really see the point.

Just a question with a short on the main postive lead. On an alloy boat with no paint and not much in it. What is going to catch fire and burn?

Brett

[PinHead]

thanks Brett..that was my thought..a fuse from the battery to the bus bar is a waste..an insulated piece of wire up under the gunwhle.

QF3..it is only a 4.5 metre tinny..I have had a boat with 6 batteries on baord and more wiring than in a high ride building.
I am not going to put a radio on the boat..no need..only for estuaries and some fresh water.
Just a basic tinnie.

[hodges4]

Bugman
With a good short using heavy enough cable which won't burn out (fuse) you stand the chance of the battery exploding with acid everywhere.

[Spin]

2 D size batteries

Nav light with the suction cap for me.

[Angla]

Bugman
With a good short using heavy enough cable which won't burn out (fuse) you stand the chance of the battery exploding with acid everywhere.

Good point.

What are the chances of this on a small tinnie?

In a car crash, the bonnet may short the terminals of the battery, thus chancing the battery exploding with acid everywhere. What are the chances of this.

You could try and spend this boaties cash without abandon or save a bit of trouble and expense due to the remote possibility of a chance happening.

It is his choice in the end and this is just advice, be it good or bad.

Cheers
Chris

[TheRealAndy]

The wire under the gunwhale can be the fuse!!

Seriously though, a fuse is cheap insurance. Wire under the gunwhale rubbing up against aluminum can cause a short. The wires will burn out, lost of smoke and the smell of burning insulation, you will shit yourself but I doubt there will be any serious damage. The fuse may save you a pair of new jocks.

[QF3 MROCP]

The wire under the gunwhale can be the fuse!!

Seriously though, a fuse is cheap insurance. Wire under the gunwhale rubbing up against aluminum can cause a short. The wires will burn out, lots of smoke and the smell of burning insulation, you will shit yourself but I doubt there will be any serious damage. The fuse may save you a pair of new jocks.

don't forget the hydrogen gas from the battery and the odd smell of fuel and the volunteer rescue vessel that pulls up alongside to help... heat, fuel & oxygen = big bang!

:oops:

[TheRealAndy]

don't forget the hydrogen gas from the battery and the odd smell of fuel and the volunteer rescue vessel that pulls up alongside to help... heat, fuel & oxygen = big bang!

:oops:


I thought about that. Fuel spurting from a hose all over the place, wire shorts outs, fire and all. Chances are if there is a possibility of a fire and you get a short circuit then a fuse is not going to help out at all. All it will do is stop the wire burning out. But you never know.

In saying that, I would never recommend not fitting a fuse. I would do for the sole purpose of only having to repair a wire rather than replacing the whole lot. Plus you might get the added advantage of a wire not starting a fuel fire because the fuse went pop first rather than a wire bruning for a few minutes.

[finga]

The wire under the gunwhale can be the fuse!!

Seen that on more then the odd occassion.
Put a bit of wire across the terminals of an old battery.
That will convince anyone of the need for a fuse but if you don't use a fuse at least double insulate everything.

If I get time later I'll go the the scrap yard armed with a bit of wire and a camera.

[oldboot]

for the cost of a fuse holder and an extra crimp lug ( or whatever) why would you not do it.

A 30 amp in line semi waterproof blade fuse holder will cost you arround $5..... blade fuse about 60c... and an extra lug about 50c.... retail.

Its convienient too.......if you strip back a couple of inches of your "6mm" twin, put a lug on the negative ( that will termonate on the battery negative, then join the prewired fuse holder to the red wire and put a lug on the end of that..... the whole thing will reach across between the batterey terminals nice and neat.......a bit of glue lined shrink...beautifull.

cheers

[johndeere]

Don't use the isolater switch with the red removable key as these corrode. The dial type wipes the contacts each time you turn it, therefore keeping a good contact. Try to mount the isolator where you can reach it from outside the boat to save getting in to the boat especially after flushing the motor.