Is it worth fighting for the rec fisho?

[TheRealAndy]

I am starting to wonder if the fight is worth it. Seems no one is interested. Does not matter what you do it seems you are met with apathy, opposition, criticism and out right attacks on your own lifestyle. Maybe I should just sit back on my arse like everyone else and watch PEW take over the world, and stick it up those trying to do the right thing.

Nearly 50000 members here and from my calulations we get positive feedback from about 0.001%

I guess everyone is happy to give up there fishing lifestyle.

[deepfried]

Of course it is but some comments by some members havent helped your cause. i think that is the plain truth of it. You guys are so close to being in politics ( not quite but hear me out ) in that your personal opinions on matters not related to fishing or Eco will influence peoples opinion of the worth of any cause or organisation you may promote such as Ecofishers.

I have no doubt about the passion you all have to EcofishersQld but a bit more thought before posting by some main members would help as would a few runs on the board which will come in time. Sorry maybe not what you wanted to hear but it is how i see it. I am ready to cop the flack this may cause but some one had to say it. Also 50000 Ausfish members is a joke. Maybe that is how many have singed on but that is def not how many are still active.

btw i am member of both NSW and Qld and am thankfull that someone is out there fighting for rec fishos.

[TheRealAndy]

Of course it is but some comments by some members havent helped your cause. i think that is the plain truth of it. You guys are so close to being in politics ( not quite but hear me out ) in that your personal opinions on matters not related to fishing or Eco will influence peoples opinion of the worth of any cause or organisation you may promote such as Ecofishers.

I have no doubt about the passion you all have to EcofishersQld but a bit more thought before posting by some main members would help as would a few runs on the board which will come in time. Sorry maybe not what you wanted to hear but it is how i see it. I am ready to cop the flack this may cause but some one had to say it. Also 50000 members is a joke. Maybe that is how many have singed on but that is def not how many are still active.

btw i am member of both NSW and Qld and am thankfull that someone is out there fighting for rec fishos.

To fight politicians you have to think like politicians. At the end of they day, they are the ones making the laws and they are driven by votes. I like to think that the message we take to the politicians are the messages given to us by you. Maybe I am wrong?

[Sevric]

Unfortunately the only solution as i see it is a political one. As much as you might like to think that you are taking the message to the politicians, really they are just letting you whine, telling you what you want to hear and then doing their own thing. They tick the box "Public consultation" but have no intention of seriously taking on board what ecofishers or any of what other armature fishing related organisations say.

I believe the solution lies in making the political parties, all of them, uncomfortable by voting in a new player with the ability to hold balance of power. To do this we all need to vote at state and federal level for an independent preferably with no association with greens, labour or the liberal National party's.

Another option is for all the different concerned fishing organisations to pool their resources to run damaging tv and newspaper campaigns aimed at discrediting the governments inability to tackle the real problems of fish decline.

Forgive me for being a generally silent observer to many of the forums but that does not make my vote on polling day worth any less. I used to fight but got tired of being fobbed off, then stabbed in the back by the political and government machine. My vote does the talking these days.

[Chris Ryan]

Hi all,

It is a thankless task Andy and it is a very hard one to achieve outcomes which are seen by the public. After being involved with this for almost 5 years in various forms and in various functions we are getting somewhere and are getting the recognition in important circles like Fisheries. We are still a small fish in a big ocean, but we fight for the fish around us and, well, we are very selfish too because we all fish and want to keep doing it too.

We get some enthusiastic members doing things to try and wind up the support. Their intentions are sound and I do thank them for making the effort and as deepfried says maybe execution was not always 100%. I will however encourage people to continue to speak up because in all facets of life we get the timid and the loud and we need all of them to make up a team. As Sleepygreg has pointed out, the Greens for years have had the extremists putting steel spikes in trees; they also had a lot of timid people handing out flyers in the shopping centres. I don't ever condone actions that will bring harm to anyone to make a message and I don't think we have these types in our ranks.

Now to sail close to the political sphere for a minute as per what deepfrieds posts indicates; this year is the year to stand up and make your voice heard though. It is Federal Election time and if we don't get involved in some shape or form I guarantee you that fishing as we know it in this country will change for the worse forever. Their is a real chance the Greens, via the QLD vote, will get the power in the Senate and if Labor gets back in you can bet all the environmental requests from every zealot group in the nation will get a better than fair hearing. If after this year people still have not been bothered to help themselves out and stay with their tail between their legs; then we will have to do a lot of thinking about the future.

I know fishing is not the be all and end all of life. I know fishing is only a small portion of issues needing to be weighed up when voting. I know that the majority of people don't understand the issues however I do know that without recreational fishing in Australia, over $2.5billion of revenue to this economy is lost. That helps pay for schools, hospitals, roads, trains and more so it contributes to all aspects of Australia....not just fishing. Keep that in mind when you listen to the sound bites on the radio/tv/newspapers as we lead up to this election.

You can make a difference by joining a group, any group, that will ask for policies on rec angling and pressure parties to account for us in the same way the QLD parties did last election. You can make a difference at the ballot box.

[Derek Bullock]

Unfortunately the only solution as i see it is a political one. As much as you might like to think that you are taking the message to the politicians, really they are just letting you whine, telling you what you want to hear and then doing their own thing. They tick the box "Public consultation" but have no intention of seriously taking on board what ecofishers or any of what other armature fishing related organisations say.

I believe the solution lies in making the political parties, all of them, uncomfortable by voting in a new player with the ability to hold balance of power. To do this we all need to vote at state and federal level for an independent preferably with no association with greens, labour or the liberal National party's.

Another option is for all the different concerned fishing organisations to pool their resources to run damaging tv and newspaper campaigns aimed at discrediting the governments inability to tackle the real problems of fish decline.

Forgive me for being a generally silent observer to many of the forums but that does not make my vote on polling day worth any less. I used to fight but got tired of being fobbed off, then stabbed in the back by the political and government machine. My vote does the talking these days.

The problem here is that there are two parties claiming to represent the fishing vote.

The Fishing Party (TFP) and the Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP). The split between the two parties several years ago has been well documented on here. That split prior to the last Federal Election resulted in a split in the fishing vote and as such neither party ended up with a Senate representative.

The election is upon us once again and both these parties are still claiming that they are going strong. The TFP has as it's slogans = I Fish I Vote and AFLP has I Fish & I Do Vote.

Once again BOTH of these parties in Queensland state that they are going to have two Senate nominations for the Federal Election. Thus once again splitting the vote in Queensland and minimising their chance of ending up with a Senate representative.

Until such time as these two groups can bury the hatchet over their differences and come together as one united front then on a political scene their impact is likely to be minimal.

All my humble opinion only.

[deepfried]

To fight politicians you have to think like politicians. At the end of they day, they are the ones making the laws and they are driven by votes. I like to think that the message we take to the politicians are the messages given to us by you. Maybe I am wrong?

What i was meaning though was more to do with how a politician conducts themself in the public eye. They may have very strong opinions on certain topics but to voice these in a certain way would lose votes or in Eco's case members and or support. Ecofishers Qld is judged by many on the qualities of the main voices that we hear on ausfish and if their conduct or language used is not appealing to the average punter it will reflect poorly on Ecofishers Qld. Comments had been made here in a previous thread reflecting this and i am glad that that thread has been pulled as it did no justice to the cause.

Dont get me wrong i would prefer a pitbull fighting in my corner and i dont doubt the drive and integrity of the main players. I just think there needs to be a bit more thought before posting and ask themselves am i doing the best thing for ecofishers given my position within that group and how it may reflect on Ecofishers Qld in the public eye. In the end the individual/s may not want to give up the way they do things now but it is what is needed for an organisation that is in the public eye and needs the support of average punters. Politics will always win.

I do hope that the majority of ausfish members can see past any differences of opinion and personality and realise that Ecofishers NSW and Qld are our best voices to fight for our rights and to protect our lifestlye. For $10 a year it is not much to ask so to me is the least we can do for ourselves. Why not join both.

[cormorant]

Single focus groups don't do well in politics.

Needs to be a group protecting all outdoor activities and sport.

It can be made up of smaller groups. Far too many out there trying to build their empires.

Unlike half the folk who get involved in the fishing politics the rest of us do it for food or sport not or business or make a living from it So we still have to vote in the bigger world based on out kids, houses, employment, environment etc. To many people there are bigger and more important issues than our recreation.

Now don't get me wrong I know that without some of the activities and groups we would be in the crap but some days I reckon that would be better as if rec fishing collapsed / banned there would be a suitable outcry from the rec fishers and industry and finally the impetutus for a cohesive support group would be formed.

To tell you the truth about 90% of the stuff fishermen believe in is the same as the environmentalists it is just that everyone is coming at it from different angles.

Yes we want the environment preserved
Yes we want fish stocks preserved
Yes we want active management of the resource
we want to buy Aussie fish in the shops from Ausiie regulated industry

The environmentalists have more experience and know that a compromise is harder to manage than locking something up and saying no. So they take the stand and simply say , no access, no take as they have a longer political memory and everytime they didn't say no they got screwed over by politicians with electoral promises.

environment groups are 100% political and lobby groups and spend all their money on that. They don't actually physically do any thing regarding the environment instead they target the policy and get publicity promoting their cause.

Fishermen pay fees , stock waterways , self impose restrictions like take limits and so on and by then all the money has gone into research, admin and fluff .

Environmental groups manage politics and fishing groups try and medal in politics 20% while splitting effort into real achievements on the ground ( shore) 80%. Since politics makes the decisions the focus seems to be in the wrong spot.


I don't know what the answer is but unless the fishing supporters can find a common group to represent them and that group then join with a political arm that has the knowledge to access and lobby the morons in State and Federal politics then a lot of energy and money will be wasted for not a lot of result.

Fishing doesn't have a seat at the big table so unless you can prove there are dedicated single issue votes in it - it will be a uphill battle and it will be pretty much ignored.

Just look at the centralised sports of rugby , netball and league and how much time they spend in the community and schmoozing the pollys and you see the money and time that it takes to be notices and have leverage at the decision making end.

Fishing has a issue that there are a variety of styles and so many individuals who all are never in the one place ( game day) so don't have a consistent focal point. While it is divided and segregated it is a easy target to do nothing from a polly's view


So the shark fishing ban got overturned????? What publicity was there - not much

So much is driven by the media and spin these days

The result is likely to be more regulation on the good people and their sport and the scum just keep doing what they want and occasionally a few may get caught and more regulations but never the suitable balance of education and enforcement - never any common sense applied as people have a take it now and no respect attitude these days.



oh year nearly forgot =- Are the fishermen worth fighting for ? - Well the good ones are but there is still a large group I wouldn't spit on with all the rubbish etc at fishing sites

[Chris Ryan]

sevric - yep then answer is political. How do you influence political views, by votes. How do you influence before an election, by joing a group to swell the number of possible voters either for/against a topic and present the large membership to the political animal and see what they have got to say. We don't like it, we move away and they look to lose the voters. That is why membership to a group - I stress again ANY group - that supports your views is a must.

Derek - you are quite right in your view in my opinion. It is one of the driving reasons I got out of that political arena and I was quite deep into it you might recall ;)

deepfried - thanks from both the NSW and QLD camps of ECOfishers for the support.

cormorant - you too are right and one of the biggest challenges we face is media perception. The media can control the outcomes of elections as much as public sentiment on topics. As for the rubbish at some fishing sites.....couldn't agree more. A bin 10 feet away and there are bottles and bags lying everywhere....but I guess that is the attitude of people these days showing through. It's not in my back yard so why worry? Sad really.

[Sevric]

[quote=Chris Ryan;1127051]sevric - yep then answer is political. How do you influence political views, by votes. How do you influence before an election, by joing a group to swell the number of possible voters either for/against a topic and present the large membership to the political animal and see what they have got to say. We don't like it, we move away and they look to lose the voters. That is why membership to a group - I stress again ANY group - that supports your views is a must.

Hi Chris,
Sorry if i sound somewhat cynical and pissed off with the whole situation but i am done. You influence the politicians with your vote not your lobby groups. If enough people do not vote for them then they will not be politicians. None of the major parties deserve my vote; it is to valuable to me just to fritter it away on their gravy train. Even if the 2 recreational based fishing parties have split it it means that the big players do not get my vote and that is important to me and the outcome of the whole political process. How much power would the greens have if no one voted for them? How much power would labour wield here in QLD if no one voted for them? Federal or State i am over the big players and joining the growing number of independent supporters.

[TheRealAndy]

[quote=Chris Ryan;1127051]sevric - yep then answer is political. How do you influence political views, by votes. How do you influence before an election, by joing a group to swell the number of possible voters either for/against a topic and present the large membership to the political animal and see what they have got to say. We don't like it, we move away and they look to lose the voters. That is why membership to a group - I stress again ANY group - that supports your views is a must.

Hi Chris,
Sorry if i sound somewhat cynical and pissed off with the whole situation but i am done. You influence the politicians with your vote not your lobby groups. If enough people do not vote for them then they will not be politicians. None of the major parties deserve my vote; it is to valuable to me just to fritter it away on their gravy train. Even if the 2 recreational based fishing parties have split it it means that the big players do not get my vote and that is important to me and the outcome of the whole political process. How much power would the greens have if no one voted for them? How much power would labour wield here in QLD if no one voted for them? Federal or State i am over the big players and joining the growing number of independent supporters.

How do the politicians know where the vote is coming from? Its the lobby groups that have the most members and make the most noise.

[revs57]

G'day Andy,

To answer your question, In my opinion, yes, it is worth fighting for the rec fisho.

As Chris said it can seem like a thankless and frustrating task.

I don't post a lot on political threads but would not want my silence to be read as apathy.

I suspect many see ausfish as part of recreation rather than work and sometimes politics can seem like just more work - and I get it, someone has to do it - but personally I've never been much of a politician even though i have been known to hand out 'how to vote' cards on election day for one of the fishing parties.

I believe there is real value in putting the ideas out here for a good airing and the awareness of members like me who will read, act as and when they are able, but for reasons known only to themselves there are others who simply refrain to post.

I think the work of eco fishers is vital, as is the role of political information and discussion on Ausfish. But its just not everyones cup of tea to wage in, in a formal way. Believe me, those who are at the pointy end are appreciated and have a valuable influence staying across the issues and reporting them so our own political choices can be influence - and there in is the reward.

Yes, I appreciate the frustration and difficulty and I sincerely appreciate those leading the charge - perhaps my sin is not saying so more often. But to write the silent majority off as apathetic and not interested is to alienate us from each other and I'm not sure the apathy label is really the right idea. I think that perhaps people are simply looking for something different from ausfish than political discussion but with grateful appreciation toward those who have taken up the cudgels in a more overt way?

Just a few thoughts with a hope to encourage those at the pointy end - it is worth it!

cheers

Rhys

[kc]

This issue is never going to go away and despite my decision to "stay out of" political debates, the same basic principles, which have been aired here over the years remain true.

Organisiations like ecofish are a vital cog in the wheel, but they are only a cog, not the answer. They can be popular, "appear" apolitical but are absolutely ineffectual without the rest of the wheel and this has to include a vote gathering "cog" aka a political arm. Just as WWF, Greenpeace, NPA, PETA, Wilderness Society etc etc etc are "apolitical lobby groups with varying levels of influence they would be useless without a political wing (the greens) in the overall mix.

Lobby groups who lobby Governments without offering something in return are really just begging. If the unions lobby Government, they back it up with $$, so do business lobbies. If you can't back it up with cash, you can back it up with votes.....(preference deals) and this is GOLD. If you can gather a block of votes, not just the promise of votes, but actual hard numbers, it is possible to change the course of political history in this country.

While it is all well to moan about lack of membership, it matters not come polling day. With less than 1000 members TFPQ got 30,000 votes come election day.

The major media outlets have coined the phrase "The fishing vote" and both Bligh and Springborg both had photo ops with fishos at the last state election. Channnel 9 Sunday program even did a piece on TFPQ and had Barnaby Joyce admit he would never have been elected without "the fishing vote" and he was obliged to be an advocate on their behalf.

It is a matter of public record that things went pear shaped when the TPFQ membership, having decided they could not, with all good faith, continue to work under the NSW based TFP management and went its own way to form ALFP. This was a unamomous vote by party members and in full accordance with a detailed constitution by an organisation which took its legal responsibilities seriuosly.
It's ability to undertake this course of action has since been up-held in a Federal court...no if's but's or maybe's.......Upheld in a Federal court.
That the NSW branch, who did a dirty deal with a current sitting Senator and ran a NSW based candidate, in the Qld senate race, with the sole intent of splitting the "fishing vote" and undermining the biggest chance "the fishing vote" had ever had to make a major splash is also now a matter of public record.

It is also clear that politics is a dirty game and as "the fishing vote" became a "clear and present danger" all sides set out to make sure "we" failed and having lived and breathed the process since day 1 I can assure everyone that politcs is an unbelievable game of chess and strategy with bugger all to do about "just, right and fair" and everything to do with winning.

I note Derek has some insight to TFP running again in the senate race and also, as a member but no longer an office bearer, I believe AFLP is doing the same.

Here's my tip. Both will direct their No 1 preference to the same party and TFP may just dissappear before election day (in Qld senate race)...after all. If the vote was maximised and then handed on to the same person it would be more benificial to have just one collective "fishing vote".

While I still have a lot of sh^% on the liver which should not really become public record, it is just such a waste to see so much effort and hand wringing when we have seen it all before, time after time after time. Fishing will not survive as we know and love it without effective political representation and it is not and never will be about member numbers, it will be about votes...gathering votes...and trading votes for political favour. Another vote for any of the major parties won't make any difference but a message sent come polling day, while it won't really effect the outcome, i.e. one of the 2 major parties will still govern the country, it will make a difference as to how they make decsions which effect our national parks and waterways. Right now, it is all looking like Larissa Waters will win the "floating" senate seat in QLD and hand that *&%$* %$ &^%$ Bob Brown the balance of power vote in the senate......God bloody help us then.

KC

[Xahn1960]

I am starting to wonder if the fight is worth it. Seems no one is interested. Does not matter what you do it seems you are met with apathy, opposition, criticism and out right attacks on your own lifestyle. Maybe I should just sit back on my arse like everyone else and watch PEW take over the world, and stick it up those trying to do the right thing.

Nearly 50000 members here and from my calulations we get positive feedback from about 0.001%

I guess everyone is happy to give up there fishing lifestyle.

It is definately worth it !!!!!! Keep up the good work, you are not quite as alone as you might think........

Bill.

[Snapp.]

Hey lads,
I dont mean to sound ignorant but there is also alot of us younger fellas that honestly dont know enough to comment. I am a mad keen fisherman as most of you are also, and it's only been lately that i have had an interest in these political issues. As i too, am seeing the future of recreational fisherman unfold before our eyes.

In saying that i have tried to research about all these lobby groups, and it's all just overwhelming and confusing. I dont know enough about the history of the fishing parties in queensland and politics in general. I do however see what is happening and am more then happy to get on the band waggon and fight for something i really believe in.

So yeah guys my view is that there is alot of us that dont know the ins and outs of these discussions.

If anyone can shed some light in simpler terms or throw down some time lines to help inform those like me......That would be great

Kind regards
Matt

[TheRealAndy]

Hey lads,
I dont mean to sound ignorant but there is also alot of us younger fellas that honestly dont know enough to comment. I am a mad keen fisherman as most of you are also, and it's only been lately that i have had an interest in these political issues. As i too, am seeing the future of recreational fisherman unfold before our eyes.

In saying that i have tried to research about all these lobby groups, and it's all just overwhelming and confusing. I dont know enough about the history of the fishing parties in queensland and politics in general. I do however see what is happening and am more then happy to get on the band waggon and fight for something i really believe in.

So yeah guys my view is that there is alot of us that dont know the ins and outs of these discussions.

If anyone can shed some light in simpler terms or throw down some time lines to help inform those like me......That would be great

Kind regards
Matt

Matt, you are in the same boat as I was 2-3 year ago. I went into this with no idea what I was doing or getting myself into. I saw the work the SOBA boys were doing and decided I needed to be a part of it. They were representing me, and what I believed in. I rocked up to the SOBA AGM and they said they needed a secretary, so I put my hand up. Since then I have learned a hell of a lot. I knew stuff all about politics, but many hours on google, meeting with people, talking with fellow fishermen and I have gained a lot. I still dont know that much, but as each day passes I grow wiser. I learn a lot from groups like PEW, the greens and even way out things like the American organisatin the NRA.

[TimiBoy]

If you are a voter and you think you'll make Politicians notice you by just voting then you're p!ssing in the wind. Unless the Pollies are hearing from Special Interest Groups in numbers, they don't give a rat's ar$e.

If all you want to do is just vote and hope it makes a difference, good on you. Seems to me you're only voting because you have to, and if it wasn't against the Law you'd spend your whole Election day pulling Whiting and whingeing about Green Zones.

Get a voice, and do something about your future - whether it's fishing, parks, friggin' koalas, people breathing out friggin' Carbon, I really don't care. Just don't wait for Election day, because that's just too Goddamn late.

The day it stops being worth it will be the day I learn to like anal. That day ain't comin' soon.

All IMO, of course!

Tim

[murf]

since I was 17 and got my car (4WD) licence some 25years ago I have been steadily losing all things I love most, every year I lose more fishing grounds or methods of fishing, every year I lose more 4WD and camping areas to me and my family. it gets very depressing and makes me feel angry when I am at some of my most loved areas and I am not allowed to do any of the things I grew up doing there :-[

I have done heaps of work with the introduction of the Solitary Islands marine park and also the the National Parks in my area doing protests, petitions, TV and radio interviews and I am no way a public speaker and am always amazed at the sarcastic "what can I do attitude" by the people who whine the most when they lose something they have always had

it takes a lot of thankless hard work to the smallest of things but from what I can see the movement is growing in the favour of the every day family and people are starting to see what is being forced upon them by a few radicals

please keep up your excellent work on finding a way to make it right for our kids and our kids kids :)

the other side of the fence is cracking if you read this article http://www.theage.com.au/national/power-struggle-hits-wilderness-society-20100130-n5jj.html

I don't have the brain power to do much these days due to a disability but I will do as much as I can to help

cheers Murf

[castlemaine]

Comments had been made here in a previous thread reflecting this and i am glad that that thread has been pulled as it did no justice to the cause.


I too was very disappointed in the thread, as some aligned the 'Thread Starter's' and later opinions, seemingly, but not, echoing Ecofishers.

It started as a good thread with lots of potential for good reasonable arguments but spun out of control.

Well done to the Mods for pulling it into line because it was doing 'our' cause no justice. Not to mention quite degrading.

At the end of the day, I as an Ecofishers member joined to work towards giving my children the opportunity to enjoy the land and sea as I did a kid (with sustainability, of course).

Politics is a game and we have to play the game. We are faced with people that are very well versed with the game and so until every fisho on this site realises it doesn't matter what Party you will eventually vote for, get the pollies to see us as a serious threat to their jobs or the only fish you'll see is at Waterworld and the only 'Great Outdoors' you'll see is on TV, in the future.

Cheers8-)

[Scott Mitchell]

I am starting to wonder if the fight is worth it. Seems no one is interested. Does not matter what you do it seems you are met with apathy, opposition, criticism and out right attacks on your own lifestyle. Maybe I should just sit back on my arse like everyone else and watch PEW take over the world, and stick it up those trying to do the right thing.

Nearly 50000 members here and from my calulations we get positive feedback from about 0.001%

I guess everyone is happy to give up there fishing lifestyle.



So soon Andy - what the grass root anglers aren't getting behind you :P

What a surprise - Scotto

[TheRealAndy]

So soon Andy - what the grass root anglers aren't getting behind you :P

What a surprise - Scotto

Thanks Scott, you just remotivated me.

[Chris Ryan]

So soon Andy - what the grass root anglers aren't getting behind you :P

What a surprise - Scotto

That was an easy catch. Wish they were all like that.

[PinHead]

the rec angler really has little say and probably never will..with groups like Sunfish licking to the Govt that provides them funds.
The tackle shops and boat dealers and manufacturers are pathetic in their lack of action to protect their livelihood..they should be members of every organisation that is around to protect their industry.
If fishing was banned totally I would not be losing my income but there are a lot that would, yet they appear silent in most instances.
Congratulations to those that do stand and do something..it is one hell of a hill to climb.

[rob tranter]

I too was very disappointed in the thread, as some aligned the 'Thread Starter's' and later opinions, seemingly, but not, echoing Ecofishers.

It started as a good thread with lots of potential for good reasonable arguments but spun out of control.

Well done to the Mods for pulling it into line because it was doing 'our' cause no justice. Not to mention quite degrading.

At the end of the day, I as an Ecofishers member joined to work towards giving my children the opportunity to enjoy the land and sea as I did a kid (with sustainability, of course).

Politics is a game and we have to play the game. We are faced with people that are very well versed with the game and so until every fisho on this site realises it doesn't matter what Party you will eventually vote for, get the pollies to see us as a serious threat to their jobs or the only fish you'll see is at Waterworld and the only 'Great Outdoors' you'll see is on TV, in the future.

Cheers8-)

I fail to see how some members took "THAT" thread as being/echoing ECHOFISHERS idea etc.

Especially when Newb's went out of his way to point out that the statements he made in that thread where HIS and HIS alone.


The Thread was not pulled into line.

It was Taken OFF Line, and that was the end of the debate.

Keeping an Open Mind is what it is all about, and not taking things Personally.

Rob T8-)

[FNQCairns]

We are a bunch of bake sale Shielas, good cause, right thing to do yada yada.....

The recognised recipe to follow is a very simple and time tested one from start to finish but each volunteer baker is impulsed to add their own personal self indulgent style of ingredient to the mix..... and to their own personal satisfaction or else not at all because it's their time and effort/cost? so they demand it or nothing. Or even less than nothing as seen easily on Ausfish multiples of times over the years and today ...they may even run petty thinly disguised interference campaigns, easily recognised by many posters that are doing something but not often by those who have yet to start. Australia has lost it's roots and it's a shame IMO.

There are other far more traditional ways to word the above paragraph:)

cheers fnq

[castlemaine]

I fail to see how some members took "THAT" thread as being/echoing ECHOFISHERS idea etc.

Well I can say go any have another look but ...

Especially when Newb's went out of his way to point out that the statements he made in that thread where HIS and HIS alone.

He did and to his credit he spoke from the heart. I have no problem with Newby or his language.

The Thread was not pulled into line.

It was Taken OFF Line, and that was the end of the debate.

Yep after a warning!

Keeping an Open Mind is what it is all about, and not taking things Personally.

Rob T8-)

I'm not taking this personally;) Havagoodweekend, I'm off to Mondy.

Back to thread ... yes Andy it's worth the fight. What did Peter Garrett say "Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees"
Cheers,8-)

[caster226]

comment deleted

[FNQCairns]

ahhhh i remember it well. fishing party preferences got Barnaby over the line in the senate. his cap left the coalition holding power in both houses. the liberals drove through work choices. voters got the trots with work choices and dumped little johnny and his clan of despots on mass. kevin o seven says thank you very much. oh what a wicked web we weave.

some of us aren't apathetic we were just alienated in very quick time by the poor conduct of ecofishers members. looking at the continuing jibes in this thread that won't change anytime soon.


Absolutely correct! no changing history to suit an agenda in that paragraph, if we the grass roots anglers where not being shafted so very well, corruptly and proper at the time I would have hung my head in shame.

The power of organised voters, even throughout the short history those QLD fishing votes has been astounding and the positive effect is still being felt.

Also the votes directly kept at the very least one green senator out of parliament.

Seriously i have never seen the like before, as an example just yesterday in senate time wild rivers was brought up...it looks like labor will not support repealing the legislation.

cheers fnq

[TheRealAndy]

ahhhh i remember it well. fishing party preferences got Barnaby over the line in the senate. his cap left the coalition holding power in both houses. the liberals drove through work choices. voters got the trots with work choices and dumped little johnny and his clan of despots on mass. kevin o seven says thank you very much. oh what a wicked web we weave.

some of us aren't apathetic we were just alienated in very quick time by the poor conduct of ecofishers members. looking at the continuing jibes in this thread that won't change anytime soon.

Damn, I wood take bets if you were not Barry Pollock. You sure do sound like him.

Please explain the poor conduct.

[PinHead]

I'll bite..who is Barry Pollock ??..doesn't matter..Sunfish dude???

[Black_Rat]

I am starting to wonder if the fight is worth it. Seems no one is interested. Does not matter what you do it seems you are met with apathy, opposition, criticism and out right attacks on your own lifestyle. Maybe I should just sit back on my arse like everyone else and watch PEW take over the world, and stick it up those trying to do the right thing.

Nearly 50000 members here and from my calulations we get positive feedback from about 0.001%

I guess everyone is happy to give up there fishing lifestyle.

It's worth it mate !

Very few people let alone the general pubic really know what we stand to lose >:(

[sleepygreg]

And there in lies the problem Black Rat. Does the 'we dont know what we are going to lose' group outweigh the 'we dont want you to have it' group? And what about the rest of the 'groups'......that really couldnt give a rodents rectum about the environment v fishing v greenies issues. We tend to break every voter into the pro v anti fishing sector.....thats all well and good...but not reality.....take out those two groups and how many are left that WONT cast their vote in relation to this sector. They may fish occassionally, but that is not their major priority in life....they are more concerned with putting food on the table, a roof over their heads, education for their kids, health care for the family, longterm (in some instances ANY) employment for them and future generations. How about drinking water into the future, housing, transport...etc etc.

Not meaning to denigrate ANY people or organisations that are trying to protect our rec fishing resources.....FFS I am involved in a lot of them and passionate about it....but we suffer from the 'single issue party syndrome'. Its a bit like the shooters party (though not the same)....started off with a bang (pardon the pun)...but fizzled out because the vast majority of the population didnt really like the idea of people having guns, and if you have a legitimate reason to have a gun....you are allowed to anyway....provided you follow the rules.

The difference between the two is that you dont use a rod and reel to hold up a bank, or kill someone (though i have some mates who need WAY more casting practice to be safe). So maybe we need to start a political party that is pro fishing, but also has a wider range of policies on current issues ( i know ...im dreaming....but then you get into the whole political thing...and then just become like the two majors).

Sorry for the rant........just airing some thoughts through the second bottle of Sav Blanc.

Greg

[Black_Rat]

No dramas Greg ;D as long as you and I give a F*$%^& about it, that's what counts most. ;)

Damo

[Lovey80]

I think Greg has it just about right. TFPQ realised that it wasn't just RecAnglers they needed to support (other than the behind the scenes stuff) and hence encompassed all the the outdoor lifestyle stuff us living in QLD love.

Getting the right people in the AFLP to have a stance on more issues than just these would be a big start. I guess the idea would be to get enough votes from the original voter base to actually influence the major parties is the starting point.

The Federal Election was the first time I had ever voted...... It was the first time I had ever voted because there was finally something worth voting for. The AFLP got my vote that time. They may again but for sure the ALP and the greens are in the 'never vote for bin'. They have done thier dash!

I agree that organisations like Eco are vital. The more members they represent, the more potential votes could go away from legislators if they are not seen to be listening to the groups. Whats the difference between 1000 people writing to a polly on an issue or 1 organisation representing 50,000 or 100,000 people? Thats 50,000 or 100,000 people that will get an email telling them that xyz polititian doesnt give a stuff about QLD Rec Angling... AND THEY KNOW IT!

Keep it up Andy and the rest at Eco. I can feel that lotto ticket coming in and I'll be back home to give you blokes a hand full time!


Cheers

Chris

[TimiBoy]

some of us aren't apathetic we were just alienated in very quick time by the poor conduct of ecofishers members. looking at the continuing jibes in this thread that won't change anytime soon.

Sounds like a really big axe to grind. Have you thought about seeing someone about that, Caster?

Might help you cope, you know.

Tim

[Black_Rat]

There is an ECOfishers meeting/gathering that's open to all in the near future ;)

If it's worth fighting for than i'll see ya's there ;D

Damo

[PinHead]

ahhhh i remember it well. fishing party preferences got Barnaby over the line in the senate. his cap left the coalition holding power in both houses. the liberals drove through work choices. voters got the trots with work choices and dumped little johnny and his clan of despots on mass. kevin o seven says thank you very much. oh what a wicked web we weave.

some of us aren't apathetic we were just alienated in very quick time by the poor conduct of ecofishers members. looking at the continuing jibes in this thread that won't change anytime soon.

Not sure I am reading this correctly caster.
Are you saying that what happened in the 2007 election had something to do with Ecofishers????
Dunno how you could work that one out.

[Xahn1960]

ahhhh i remember it well. fishing party preferences got Barnaby over the line in the senate. his cap left the coalition holding power in both houses. the liberals drove through work choices. voters got the trots with work choices and dumped little johnny and his clan of despots on mass. kevin o seven says thank you very much. oh what a wicked web we weave.

some of us aren't apathetic we were just alienated in very quick time by the poor conduct of ecofishers members. looking at the continuing jibes in this thread that won't change anytime soon.

Well for a start not everyone hated "Work Choices", I didn't have a problem with it at all.

And I havn't seen any examples of "poor conduct of Ecofishers members" either ( I'll admit I didn't read more than the first few posts of the Newby thread so if it was there I didn't see it, ), well nothing that offended me that is. What I do see however is a group of people trying very hard to improve the lot of all recfisho's and getting limited support for their efforts.
Just my opinion
Bill.

[Black_Rat]

Let's keep this thread positive blokes :)

If you have anything negative to post than take the time to send a PM or meet the people behind ECOFishers QLD before you do so otherwise you are wasting your time and my time. ;) Alternatively get out there and wet a line ! ;D

Damo.

[Razgo-]

I am starting to wonder if the fight is worth it. Seems no one is interested. Does not matter what you do it seems you are met with apathy, opposition, criticism and out right attacks on your own lifestyle. Maybe I should just sit back on my arse like everyone else and watch PEW take over the world, and stick it up those trying to do the right thing.

Nearly 50000 members here and from my calulations we get positive feedback from about 0.001%

I guess everyone is happy to give up there fishing lifestyle.

what was your response form fishnet.com.au who have over 70,000 members?

and sportsfish.com.au with nearly 14,000 members.

how many other fishing forums and popular fishing sites have you voiced this issue with and what % of positive feedback did you get from them?

just curious because you have pointed out your concern with the response and support this far from ausfish forums.

[deepfried]

Sounds like a really big axe to grind. Have you thought about seeing someone about that, Caster?

Might help you cope, you know.

Tim

From one of the central members of Ecofishers this may be the type of comment / reaction that does no good at all. Remember you guys have chosen to be in the public spot light so maybe you guys have too learn to cope with the odd jibe and be more professional. Step up not down, take critism and learn from it and move on.

[Black_Rat]

what was your response form fishnet.com.au who have over 70,000 members?

and sportsfish.com.au with nearly 14,000 members.

how many other fishing forums and popular fishing sites have you voiced this issue with and what % of positive feedback did you get from them?

just curious because you have pointed out your concern with the response and support this far from ausfish forums.

I'd ask the same question for our ECOfisher NSW allies?

[Black_Rat]

From one of the central members of Ecofishers this may be the type of comment / reaction that does no good at all. Remember you guys have chosen to be in the public spot light so maybe you guys have too learn to cope with the odd jibe and be more professional. Step up not down, take critism and learn from it and move on.

Too true, we have undertaken a big task but one we will continue to do despite the broadshots accross our bow :)

Damo.

[Razgo-]

I'd ask the same question for our ECOfisher NSW allies?

sure why not. i was only asking because it was pointed out specifically the lack of support by ausfish members and it being noted there is over 50,000 members here. I have no idea how many other fishing sites are out there but there are a few and not to mention nuggets fishing forums too.

[Black_Rat]

sure why not. i was only asking because it was pointed out specifically the lack of support by ausfish members and it being noted there is over 50,000 members here. I have no idea how many other fishing sites are out there but there are a few and not to mention nuggets fishing forums too.

Yeah fair call :)

It's more like 1000 members active over a week, I don't know maybe the Aufish Mods could confirm this ?

Damo

[John L]

Can I correct sleepygreg. Actually the Shooters Party has not fizzled out, it is going very well with 2 mp's in NSW state parliament and has formed a national Shooters and Fishers party with candidates running in all states[senate] in the upcoming federal election.

I am a fisher but shooting is my main sport so my vote goes to the Shooters Party naturally. Now if only we could merge all the fishing, shooting and recreational party's we might get somewhere.

[caster226]

comment deleted

[Black_Rat]

Quite frankly i'm over the knockers throwing words around ;D

Acually doing something constructive that will help rec fishing is another step ! :o

It's a concept that eludes some ?

Damo

[TimiBoy]

A central member of EcoFishers? That's a laugh. I do nothing. I have no committee position, no nothing. I got involved in a protest a year ago, and got vocal about it, same as I am vocal about Fisho's rights now. So what?

Assumptions only do one thing. They make an a$$ of you. Me? I am way beyond being an a$$, but, unlike some, I 'm not an a$$hole...

Tim

[sleepygreg]

your welcome round my 'fishers rights'campfire any time Tim. ANd i dont care what group you belong to..if any...as long as your heart is in the fight.

Greg

[Lucky_Phill]

Damo,

Ausfish has nearly 4,000 visits per DAY. ( people that actually read, look or purchase something ).. hit wise, it is in the millions per month.

Usually 1,000 - 1,500 members log on, daily.

51,000 plus members and 11,000 of them utilizing the free Ausfish email service.

FYI>



Phill.
.
.
.
.

[deepfried]

Fair enough then Tim. I had thought you were on the committee. Well you just keep doing your best for them then in your way, i am sure its appreciated.

[honda900]

Andy / Chris,

hang in there you have supporters; maybe a few more than you think, we may not always agree 100% with ideas presented but support in principle your motives and position.

As others have mentioned, the way to get more voice in politics, is to use the media to your advantage, ever noticed some greenie proffessor on the news condeming some form of environmental vandalism only to watch them cut to the footage of the proffessor to find out its a 20yr old writing their masters?? not even finished uni..

In our cause we need to use the media more, by doing this you will get the attention of the politicians, once you have their attention then you have leverage. Bob Brown and the Tasmanian Dam was a classic example.

The media is the key to change, politicians will bend, sleeze and lie any which way they can to ensure that there power base is not undermined, and if its popular they will take up your cause.

Regards
Honda.

[trymyluck]

I'm can not believe what I'm reading here, Here is a guy thats working his a@#E off trying to maintain or improve our fishing access and rights who is getting a bit disillusioned with the support and appreciation from fellow fisherman. And probably so. The response has been to see the people that are passionate enough to have a go attacked by a minority that do what?????????

Andy I haven't met you as yet but stay with it as we do need you and more of you.
Sounds familiar to a previous thread doesn't it..........:-/

what is there to explain. read some of the bigger threads in this section. it is pretty self evident. or read this thread. so far im apathetic lazy and got a axe to grind. keep sweet talking me im almost sold on joining as are all the other lazy apathetic fishermen out there.

Castor...... So what are you????????????Who are you???????? And whats your agenda??????? What in particular offended you...........or did it??????

Mark
#

[caster226]

comment deleted

[trymyluck]

my agenda? hang on i get called apathetic and lazy. told i have a axe to grind. take exception and say so now i have a ahenda. grow up. you guys continue to act like a cross between a pack of dingos and teenage kids with your responses and understanding.


Sometimes the truth hurts!!!!!!!!!

I know it stung me a bit when I had to admit to sitting on my butt while others did the hard yards.

Mark

[Xahn1960]

my agenda? hang on i get called apathetic and lazy. told i have a axe to grind. take exception and say so now i have a ahenda. grow up. you guys continue to act like a cross between a pack of dingos and teenage kids with your responses and understanding.

Those comments could apply to all of us at some point or another...... simple truth is, if we want to protect what we enjoy then we need to be involved, we can't allways leave it to someone else, maybe they need a hand once and awhile.

Bill.

[Lucky_Phill]

I will try to post this from a Moderators perspective and I have done this before.

If you have nothing positive to say in relation to the specific topic or cannot offer any constructive criticism or an opinion on the specific topic, then say nothing.

Cheers.

phill
.
.
.
.
.
.

[rob tranter]

some of us aren't apathetic we were just alienated in very quick time by the poor conduct of ecofishers members. looking at the continuing jibes in this thread that won't change anytime soon.

my agenda? hang on i get called apathetic and lazy. told i have a axe to grind. take exception and say so now i have a ahenda. grow up. you guys continue to act like a cross between a pack of dingos and teenage kids with your responses and understanding.

Caster

I don't see why you're thanking Phill

What's positive and constructive about what you have said?

How do you know that what you consider to be poor conduct, was from ecofish members?

We're not all members, Most of us just agree with what they're trying to do.
You haven't answered this question yet?
Castor...... So what are you????????????Who are you???????? And whats your agenda??????? What in particular offended you...........or did it??????

Rob T8-)

[Reef_fisher]

Sorry to ruin everyones day, Have been involved in the past which just showed that politics involves too many egos as politics does, its not service or what the public wants its what the pollie has to do to stay in power, end of story!!! Until we (rec fishos) become important nothing will happen. Previous post hit the nail on the head, unless fishing is your driving motivation then it will always take a back seat to real life. I am a Veteran and while I love my fishing it takes a back seat to many other problems/wants/needs in my life.
So before saying that rec fishos sit on their bums maybe just maybe they have other more pressing issues to deal with, I know I do. I am not offended in any way by any comments on this site (and there does seem to be a few) and I hate the continueing errosion of our fishing rites. I applaud those that have the time and drive to defend these issues and thank them for doing so. Chin up Real Andy from another Andy.

[Mike Delisser]

Sorry to ruin everyones day, Have been involved in the past which just showed that politics involves too many egos as politics does, its not service or what the public wants its what the pollie has to do to stay in power, end of story!!! Until we (rec fishos) become important nothing will happen. Previous post hit the nail on the head, unless fishing is your driving motivation then it will always take a back seat to real life. I am a Veteran and while I love my fishing it takes a back seat to many other problems/wants/needs in my life.
So before saying that rec fishos sit on their bums maybe just maybe they have other more pressing issues to deal with, I know I do. I am not offended in any way by any comments on this site (and there does seem to be a few) and I hate the continueing errosion of our fishing rites. I applaud those that have the time and drive to defend these issues and thank them for doing so. Chin up Real Andy from another Andy.

Spot on!!!!!!!!!

[trymyluck]

Sorry to ruin everyones day, Have been involved in the past which just showed that politics involves too many egos as politics does, its not service or what the public wants its what the pollie has to do to stay in power, end of story!!! Until we (rec fishos) become important nothing will happen. Previous post hit the nail on the head, unless fishing is your driving motivation then it will always take a back seat to real life. I am a Veteran and while I love my fishing it takes a back seat to many other problems/wants/needs in my life.
So before saying that rec fishos sit on their bums maybe just maybe they have other more pressing issues to deal with, I know I do. I am not offended in any way by any comments on this site (and there does seem to be a few) and I hate the continueing errosion of our fishing rites. I applaud those that have the time and drive to defend these issues and thank them for doing so. Chin up Real Andy from another Andy.


I agree, Spot on.

But we still need to get the issue in front of the pollies and attacking the people who have the time and ability who put their hand up is not helping. It seems to be quite a deliberate attempt to deter people from being a part of Ecofish.

Mark

So is there any plans to get the issues out into the community? We don't seem to make the most of our opportunities.

[Chris Ryan]

Well the best way to do that is with you guys, speaking with your mates and family on the issues and spreading the word that all is not rosy. Otherwise the mainstream media don't give us too much in airplay and advertising costs for mainstream are prohibitive to even large groups. So I suggest no matter what your drivers are for fishing be they recreation, food, holidaying etc then take time to speak to others.

As for the suggestion of wanting to deter people from joining then thats fine. I am happy for people to choose for themselves and if they don't want to join us then so be it. All I care about is if you want to be involved, do it with a group - ANY GROUP - it really doesn't matter who as long as you are adding to their collective voice.

On the topic of speaking down to people or if people find that offensive then I apologise that you see it that way because I didn't read it as such but everyone is different. The intentions of the people who are making the comments are sound and above board. They are merely trying to increase support for us as recreational anglers. Some methods are noisy, some are direct.

I am sure I have mentioned before that fishing is not the be all and end all to life for the majority of anglers. What we need to be conscious of is not allowing our lifestyles to be eroded by others whilst we vote for those we want to manage the big things that matter. If you want Labor to manage the House of Reps, cool, but be careful you don't tip the scales to those who want to stop you fishing in the Senate.

Is it worth it? Time will be the ultimate judge.

[Apollo]

Just a little side issue - got a txt from Newby. He still reads Ausfish and appreciates the support from those that recognise that even though he is a bit rough at times, he has good intent in supporting ecofishers and trying to encourage the rest of us to get off our bums and support them too by getting involved and stop the eroding of our lifestyle. He is trying to do his bit and even offered his own $ to cover the application fee of anyone who wants to join but is struggling a bit or just a young tacka so can't come up with the readies. Let's see the knockers here put their money where their mouth/fingers are and support the fight! So I pass on a heartening thanks from Newbs for the support shown here from those that believe the same and appreciate his efforts. You know who you are.

Newbs will be back soon to continue the support of ecofishers and the fight against 'the hairy armpit brigade'

Thanks
Steve

[TimiBoy]

Heyyyy heeeyyyyy, Newby, I can see you!!!!

[sleepygreg]

Chris,

I may have come across as negative to some. I wholeheartedly support Ecofishers in what they are trying to achieve. I may not join as a card carrying member at the moment (funds are VERY limited), but I already belong to two organisations who are actively involved in the fight (and have office bearing status amongst those), and have been for over 30 years. My brow is calloused already from beating it against the brick wall that is the PTB. Is that going to stop me...NO F%CK*NG WAY. Welcome to the 'fight'. Be prepared for some losses along the way....you are not going to win everything...and when you dont win you will be castigated by the 'fans' on the sideline. More callouses. My point about people having more important things to worry about still stands...hell..couldnt apply more to me at the moment...but i am still fighting where and when i can. ATM fishing and what it represents is keeping me sane (just).

Keep Punching
Greg

[rob tranter]

Just a little side issue - got a txt from Newby. He still reads Ausfish and appreciates the support from those that recognise that even though he is a bit rough at times, he has good intent in supporting ecofishers and trying to encourage the rest of us to get off our bums and support them too by getting involved and stop the eroding of our lifestyle. He is trying to do his bit and even offered his own $ to cover the application fee of anyone who wants to join but is struggling a bit or just a young tacka so can't come up with the readies. Let's see the knockers here put their money where their mouth/fingers are and support the fight! So I pass on a heartening thanks from Newbs for the support shown here from those that believe the same and appreciate his efforts. You know who you are.

Newbs will be back soon to continue the support of ecofishers and the fight against 'the hairy armpit brigade'

Thanks
Steve

Thank you Lord

Thank you Jesus;D

Oh yeh

Steve
Be carefull with the choice of word's, "hairy armpit brigade" may cost you an "INFRACTION", it did me:o
Some people have no sence of humour;)

Rob T8-)

[Apollo]

Thank you Lord

Thank you Jesus;D

Oh yeh

Steve
Be carefull with the choice of word's, "hairy armpit brigade" may cost you an "INFRACTION", it did me:o
Some people have no sence of humour;)

Rob T8-)

Thanks for the heads up Rob, I was quoting the painted one, but will refrain in the future so as to not offend the humour challenged. I don't need anymore infractions.

Steve

[Chris Ryan]

All good Greg and you are exactly the example of what I am talking about re: getting involved with any group because you are. Membership to groups like ours does a couple of things:

1. Gives people who don't want to or are not confident themselves to be vocal so we can do it on their behalf
2. Add volume to the potential votes politicians might possibly miss
3. Helps funds research programs, printing of information sheets etc etc

but we still have choice in this country (well at the moment anyway) and your efforts with your groups are adding weight to the arguments we all make.

Your comments were not received by me as being negative, moreover simply putting a reality spin on things and I appreciate all your input into discussions on these things as you have a lot more experience in these matters than I. I'm simply a Dad who wants to keep taking his kids fishing so I worked with a few blokes and set up something a little different to what was on offer because I didn't see what I wanted out there.

I'll keep punching if you do! :)




Chris,

I may have come across as negative to some. I wholeheartedly support Ecofishers in what they are trying to achieve. I may not join as a card carrying member at the moment (funds are VERY limited), but I already belong to two organisations who are actively involved in the fight (and have office bearing status amongst those), and have been for over 30 years. My brow is calloused already from beating it against the brick wall that is the PTB. Is that going to stop me...NO F%CK*NG WAY. Welcome to the 'fight'. Be prepared for some losses along the way....you are not going to win everything...and when you dont win you will be castigated by the 'fans' on the sideline. More callouses. My point about people having more important things to worry about still stands...hell..couldnt apply more to me at the moment...but i am still fighting where and when i can. ATM fishing and what it represents is keeping me sane (just).

Keep Punching
Greg

[TimiBoy]

Thank you Lord

Thank you Jesus;D

Oh yeh

Steve
Be carefull with the choice of word's, "hairy armpit brigade" may cost you an "INFRACTION", it did me:o
Some people have no sence of humour;)

Rob T8-)

Newby, you'd better keep the fo'ard cabin of Carnelpya free for you two to pair up at Agnes.

Sounds like Tranter's pretty keen...

Cheers,

Tim

[PinHead]

I know I send my local member plenty of letters on various issues. He is a first time Member and as he only won by 75 votes he is usually keen on the replies..however...most are just the normal political mumbo jumbo and never gives a definitive answer to anything.

[Chris Ryan]

That is a very valuable contribution PinHead....thank you for doing it.

[rob tranter]

Newby, you'd better keep the fo'ard cabin of Carnelpya free for you two to pair up at Agnes.

Sounds like Tranter's pretty keen...

Cheers,

Tim

Nownow Timothy, there is no need to bring the "S" word into the equation:-X.

I merely put up a thread that had a few words that weren't appreciated by those that rule.

Words like "GR-B", "H-IRY ar_pit Brigade", "L-zy B-sta-d "LABOR" and the list goes on.

Those words weren't even aimed at anyone in particular, but because I had included them in my thread, it was DELETED>:( , and I coped a "FIVE" point INFRACTION.:'(
Still not sure what that means but what the hell ;)

It all boils down to

"KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUY's",

You DO have a lot of support, it just may not be where you need it.

My membership form's are in the mail, (both Ecofishers, NSW and QLD)

Rob T8-)

[rob tranter]

http://www.stopmarinelockout.com.au/images/stories/newsletter/header_email.jpg

Dear NSW Fishers


According to its website one of the National Parks Association's goals for 2010 is to increase marine sanctuaries by 300%.

The NSW Liberals & Nationals position on this is clear. We believe there should not be any more marine parks and marine sanctuaries created unless they are based on proper scientific research and community consultation. I have attached my recent media release.

It is now time for Kristina Keneally to tell us where she stands. She cannot continue to take the easy way out and focus on restricting fishing rather than tackling the real threats to our coastline such as pollution, introduced species and disease and inappropriate coastal development.

Over the summer I have met with many of you at the fishing forums that have been organised in your region.

I thank you for your support. It makes a real difference. The more people who sign our online petition (https://leaders.myelectorate.com.au/crm/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=79&qid=77875) the more pressure we can put on NSW Labor.

Yours Sincerely




Duncan Gay
Shadow Minister for Primary Industries





If you do not wish to receive any more emails, please click here (https://leaders.myelectorate.com.au/crm/index.php?q=civicrm/mailing/optout&reset=1&jid=383&qid=77875&h=a624377000734e55).
NSW Parliament House
Sydney, NSW 2000




Queensland is not on it's Own when it comes to moronic Labor Government Decision's>:(

Rob T8-)

[NEWBY]

ANDY, you need slappin about the noggin for starting this thread...are you on drugs man??? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_6_8.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZCxdm923YYAU)

If so, go get some uppers because the downers you are on would make an elephant want to commit suicide mate....Geesus H Christ ANDY.

Mate you know its worth it.
The 10 day holiday http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_68.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZCxdm923YYAU) I have just had was truly worth it for the cause that is our lifestyle.
Mate DO NOT let the "smokers of the hairy cigar" mess with your head or your enthusiasm.
Stay with us bud.








http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb114&pp=ZCxdm923YYAU (http://www.smileycentral.com/dl/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb114_ZCxdm923YYAU&utm_id=7922)

[scifly]

The problem here is that there are two parties claiming to represent the fishing vote.

The Fishing Party (TFP) and the Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP). The split between the two parties several years ago has been well documented on here. That split prior to the last Federal Election resulted in a split in the fishing vote and as such neither party ended up with a Senate representative.

The election is upon us once again and both these parties are still claiming that they are going strong. The TFP has as it's slogans = I Fish I Vote and AFLP has I Fish & I Do Vote.

Once again BOTH of these parties in Queensland state that they are going to have two Senate nominations for the Federal Election. Thus once again splitting the vote in Queensland and minimising their chance of ending up with a Senate representative.

Until such time as these two groups can bury the hatchet over their differences and come together as one united front then on a political scene their impact is likely to be minimal.

All my humble opinion only.

Actually Derek, there are 3 - add to these the Shooters and Fishers Party at a federal level and we have a 3 way split. Not one of these parties has discussed their policy with Recfish Australia or any of our members which seems a bit strange if you are claiming to represent recreational fishers!

Len
Recfish CEO

[scifly]

Andy, Matt

Welcome to the wonderful world of fishing politics. Phil and Chris, I will keep this positive at the risk of getting my head chopped off....

There have been some very major developments over the last 16 months in the areas of advocacy. Recfish Australia has been the peak body for recreational fishers at a national level for 26 years and we have led some very successful campaigns at a national level.We dont get involved in state issues unless requested by our state member and this may have been our undoing in terms of the average fisho recognizing us as having a role.

Recfish has been constrained by a constitution that only allowed one member from each state (in the past, Sunfish from QLD) but that is all set to change in the next 60 days when we will open membership up to multiple groups.

Recfish has received govt grants which have had to be fought for every time govt changes. Our last lot of funding amounting to $100,000 for a national peak body ended on 30 June 2008 and we have been running on empty ever since.

The current Labor Govt believes they cannot fund a group that may be critical of them. We believe we have addressed this to some extent through membership of the Boating and Fishing Council of Australia which is an alliance of boating, recreational fishing and rec fishing trades with the express purpose of lobbying govt. The Council employs a lobbyist based in Canberra who did some fantastic behind the scenes work with politicians to keep the mako issue on the agenda.

I guess I am being longwinded but I believe that a renewed Recfish Australia is the right body to unite recreational fishers and take action but we need support of state and regional organisations. This is not the time for petty jealousies and vendettas going back. This is a war and war makes for strange allies. There are rifts in the conservation movement and we have to exploit those. Recreational fishing is a hot issue at the moment for federal politicians and we need to keep the pressure on.

Above all, we need fresh, motived leaders like Andy to ask the questions and keep the fight alive.

I am very happy to discuss campaigns and strategy but I am not interested in dredging up "he said, she said" type arguments that had nothing to do with me or help the situation.

Len
Recfish CEO

[TimiBoy]

The Council employs a lobbyist based in Canberra who did some fantastic behind the scenes work with politicians to keep the mako issue on the agenda.



Let's hope he's still working on Mako - it seems to me that one is nowhere near bedded down!

Thanks for your comments, Len. You're right - my dream is that everyone can come together under common Leadership. Hopefully all out there who want to lead this thing will realise it is not their job to take the Lead, but to be given it. That way we can end up with just one.

Cheers,

tim

[NEWBY]

Andy, Matt

Welcome to the wonderful world of fishing politics. Phil and Chris, I will keep this positive at the risk of getting my head chopped off....

There have been some very major developments over the last 16 months in the areas of advocacy. Recfish Australia has been the peak body for recreational fishers at a national level for 26 years and we have led some very successful campaigns at a national level.We dont get involved in state issues unless requested by our state member and this may have been our undoing in terms of the average fisho recognizing us as having a role.

Recfish has been constrained by a constitution that only allowed one member from each state (in the past, Sunfish from QLD) but that is all set to change in the next 60 days when we will open membership up to multiple groups.

Recfish has received govt grants which have had to be fought for every time govt changes. Our last lot of funding amounting to $100,000 for a national peak body ended on 30 June 2008 and we have been running on empty ever since.

The current Labor Govt believes they cannot fund a group that may be critical of them. We believe we have addressed this to some extent through membership of the Boating and Fishing Council of Australia which is an alliance of boating, recreational fishing and rec fishing trades with the express purpose of lobbying govt. The Council employs a lobbyist based in Canberra who did some fantastic behind the scenes work with politicians to keep the mako issue on the agenda.

I guess I am being longwinded but I believe that a renewed Recfish Australia is the right body to unite recreational fishers and take action but we need support of state and regional organisations. This is not the time for petty jealousies and vendettas going back. This is a war and war makes for strange allies. There are rifts in the conservation movement and we have to exploit those. Recreational fishing is a hot issue at the moment for federal politicians and we need to keep the pressure on.

Above all, we need fresh, motived leaders like Andy to ask the questions and keep the fight alive.

I am very happy to discuss campaigns and strategy but I am not interested in dredging up "he said, she said" type arguments that had nothing to do with me or help the situation.

Len
Recfish CEO

Len well said mate...If anyone bites your head off for this they need castrating...I will happily "stick my hand up" to either hold the blighter or wield the bait knife with you.

once again its UNITED WE STAND eh?

The great thing you have brought up here is your recognition of others perception of your organisation. And you want to change it...Good on you Len...

[scifly]

Thanks Newby

I have endeavored to do that since I took on the job. I am willing to take constructive criticism and work with it. We are here for all fishers/anglers but its bloody difficult trying to be all things to everyone. The role of a peak body is to do the right things which may sometimes not be the popular things. Importantly, the difference between ours and some other organisations is that everyone has the chance to have their say. Our role is to present the variety of opinions and options. If the board (which is comprised of all full members) is not unanimous, we are quite happy to present the dissenting view.

As an example, the NT have their own way of dealing with Bioregional Planning and have a govt which is opposed to ANY closures to recreational fishing WITHOUT EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. That is a great relationship to have with govt so they have a different starting point in negotiations with DEWHA.
Len
CEO Recfish Australia

[Chris Ryan]

G'day Len,

I look forward to hearing about the coming changes mate. I think it is very important to allow ALL state based bodies big and small to come together.

[trymyluck]

Ok
So we need to spread the message to our mates and anyone that listens. Now here is the problem. Unless you have the time to get involved and spend ya life sorting through the crap to get to the facts ya don't know where to start.
I think we need someone who has been involved and knows whats fact and fiction to put together a information sheet. Who is who and what they intend. Who to contact and web sites to look at.

Is there something already available that can be printed off.

Mark

[NEWBY]

Ok
So we need to spread the message to our mates and anyone that listens. Now here is the problem. Unless you have the time to get involved and spend ya life sorting through the crap to get to the facts ya don't know where to start.
I think we need someone who has been involved and knows whats fact and fiction to put together a information sheet. Who is who and what they intend. Who to contact and web sites to look at.

Is there something already available that can be printed off.

Mark
MARK???? MAAAAAAAAATE,
I was not aware that you posessed such skills as "common sense" I am impressed bud...;D

What a great idea...printed matter, on the subject that matters, going out to the people that matter...

Put scientific FACT on it instead of political BS.

We could call it "The Truth About Fishing"
Email and printed material out to everyone...On forums...etc...
A single minded, joint venture by the various groups and organisations that are fighting for our lifestyle survival.

ECOfish. IGFA. GFAA. Recfish. Sunfish etc etc etc....Take the "common" subjects that ALL the groups agree on and combine the numbers...That is strength..That is power...Lots of power...Get the magazines to print it. I am sure I can convince our local paper to print it too.
Hell I will even donate to the printing if you need it...

So lose the political aspect of it all and go for the common sense/truth numbers. Have a petition site on the bottom so the readers can go and OUT VOTE the other petitions.

I am in...Len, Chris?????

How about this, we get ALL the heads of recreational fishing and lifestyle groups together. In 1 place...At one time...Agree on just a few items and go for it combined...

Just imagine it....

OR are the ego's not willing to let that happen???

[Chris Ryan]

No ego here Newby; I'm for recreational fishing access, sustainable catch rates and habitat protection.

I'll gladly resign my post and help to amalgamate our group into another as long as it is independently funded, mindful of the members wanting their point of view heard and not pandering to politics.

Where do you want me and when?

[NEWBY]

No ego here Newby; I'm for recreational fishing access, sustainable catch rates and habitat protection.

I'll gladly resign my post and help to amalgamate our group into another as long as it is independently funded, mindful of the members wanting their point of view heard and not pandering to politics.

Where do you want me and when?

Nahmate, I dont think its about resigning posts or amalgamation as each individual shall always have their own version or interpretation of what is right and wrong so we need variants in our groups. Recfish will have a different idea on a few things to GFAA or ECOfish and all of them are probably right in their individual way.
Hence a show of united strength...Like Greens joining Pew with some other hairy armpitted left wing radical group...They will all agree on 2 or 3 specific items although they may have 40 items each on thier agendas that are different. Get the items we ALL agree on, fight for those, then we become heard. As a whole, meanwhle we still go about our own business which may be state based or even local shire like Tittlers I think its called. GFAA wouldnt give a hoot about that but the Coral Sea closure, we ALL give a sh!t about...Fight the big fight with big numbers is all I am on about...Not amalgamating the groups

[Chris Ryan]

Well when Recfish open memberships up for more than 1 state representative we will look to join in and add weight to their work at a Federal/National Level.

Adding more numbers is what the pollies get nervous about, thats why the greens do so well....their memberships and supporter numbers are huge and their supporters are willing to put their names against their support either via memberships/friendships/petitions etc etc etc.

[scifly]

Chris, Newby

thank you for your constructive comments and if it takes working through this forum to get things happening, I will do it.

Chris, currently there are no members from Qld so you could be the member right now. Secondly, the amendment to the constitution allowing more members is with with members right now and I dont expect any opposition.

I have attached a link to a list of fishing representation in NSW which is by no means comprehensive but gives some idea of the diversity. I need to say straight out that Recfish will represent the diversity of views of all our members and not try and force a single position or policy.

Petitions are a good idea but one thing is more powerful and that is a personal letter sent to your local federal MP. The conservation groups have purchased some wonderful software that lets you type your postcode and then provides the name and address of your local member in a form letter that can be downloaded, printed and signed. You can also personalise the letter.

Newby, the fact sheets are fantastic and I intend to do just that (with lots of help from my friends :-/ )

Lets keep talking and planning
Len

http://www.freshwateranglers.com.au/Reports%20policies%20submissions/Angler%20representation%20in%20NSW.pdf

[murf]

Petitions are a good idea but one thing is more powerful and that is a personal letter sent to your local federal MP. The conservation groups have purchased some wonderful software that lets you type your postcode and then provides the name and address of your local member in a form letter that can be downloaded, printed and signed. You can also personalise the letter.

Newby, the fact sheets are fantastic and I intend to do just that (with lots of help from my friends :-/ )

Lets keep talking and planning
Len

http://www.freshwateranglers.com.au/Reports%20policies%20submissions/Angler%20representation%20in%20NSW.pdf

so what you are saying when in Rome do as the Romans do ;)

do we have a way of personalising it to our needs???????? :)

so if the radicalist greenie system has the power to get things done then lets emulate the system and throw back some real peoples numbers

Newby you talk very wisely there my friend, we will all never agree on the one thing but we should pool our numbers and champion for the bigger threats to our outdoor lifestyle

please get a round table going with all the major players in the fishing and outdoor sectors and talk for the common good

cheers Murf

[scifly]

Murf

I have no doubt that we could build the software with the skills out in recfishing world. I have searched for an online tool but found nothing yet. Maybe we should just ask the conservation sector for their software ::) .

Len

[trymyluck]

MARK???? MAAAAAAAAATE,
I was not aware that you posessed such skills as "common sense" I am impressed bud...;D

What a great idea...printed matter, on the subject that matters, going out to the people that matter...

Put scientific FACT on it instead of political BS.

We could call it "The Truth About Fishing"
Email and printed material out to everyone...On forums...etc...
A single minded, joint venture by the various groups and organisations that are fighting for our lifestyle survival.

ECOfish. IGFA. GFAA. Recfish. Sunfish etc etc etc....Take the "common" subjects that ALL the groups agree on and combine the numbers...That is strength..That is power...Lots of power...Get the magazines to print it. I am sure I can convince our local paper to print it too.
Hell I will even donate to the printing if you need it...

So lose the political aspect of it all and go for the common sense/truth numbers. Have a petition site on the bottom so the readers can go and OUT VOTE the other petitions.

I am in...Len, Chris?????

How about this, we get ALL the heads of recreational fishing and lifestyle groups together. In 1 place...At one time...Agree on just a few items and go for it combined...

Just imagine it....

OR are the ego's not willing to let that happen???


Mate just glad someone thinks the idea has merit, between Chris, Andy, and Len they have a lot of knowledge on the situation. I feel that any arguments we mount must be correct and based on fact or we will get shot down at some stage.
Mark

[Chris Ryan]

so what you are saying when in Rome do as the Romans do ;)

do we have a way of personalising it to our needs???????? :)

so if the radicalist greenie system has the power to get things done then lets emulate the system and throw back some real peoples numbers

Newby you talk very wisely there my friend, we will all never agree on the one thing but we should pool our numbers and champion for the bigger threats to our outdoor lifestyle

please get a round table going with all the major players in the fishing and outdoor sectors and talk for the common good

cheers Murf

Murf,

I'm looking to get approval (and funding) for a postcard to be printed which can be addressed to the right MP and signed and posted to assist in this as a lot of people don't like writing their own letters.

Chris

[Chris Ryan]

Murf

I have no doubt that we could build the software with the skills out in recfishing world. I have searched for an online tool but found nothing yet. Maybe we should just ask the conservation sector for their software ::) .

Len

Len,

You write it, get some other groups to join up (shoot me their logos) and I'll get it done off our website.

[trymyluck]

Might be worth considering if your looking to write to your MP.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/12/16/dont-waste-your-time-waste-theirs-a-guide-to-writing-to-ministers/

Mark

[murf]

Might be worth considering if your looking to write to your MP.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/12/16/dont-waste-your-time-waste-theirs-a-guide-to-writing-to-ministers/

Mark

you have a bit of hidden talent there Mark :)

cheers Murf

[trymyluck]

No not really, I'm just starting to get pi#sed off with the crap they are trying to impose on us..........Mate of mine tried to tell me this would happen 15 years ago, Told him he was a bloody idiot.

Mark

[NEWBY]

No not really, I'm just starting to get pi#sed off with the crap they are trying to impose on us..........Mate of mine tried to tell me this would happen 15 years ago, Told him he was a bloody idiot.

Mark
and how many people 15 years ago said "they wont impose bag limits" and the great one, "no fishing zones, they wont do that"
So, heres a comment, "in another 10 years, maybe sooner, there will not be any more recreational fishing in the wild"

I dare anyone to say I am off my head or a bloody idiot for making that comment....
Dare I say it AGAIN???? we are screwed....
1 in 10 give a sh!t and 1 in 10 of those voice their opinion in ways that matter and 1 in 10 of those, actually do something about it.
so 1 in 1000 really do give a sh!t...:'(

And once more for the record....WE ARE SCREWED...

[trymyluck]

Had a bit of a chat to a work mate yesterday, older bloke late 50ies keen fisherman and he tells me he is thinking seriously about buying a 35 to 40ft boat. Something he can slip out to the reefs for a couple of weeks sort of thing. Anyway I asked him if he had heard of pew's proposal for the Coral Sea. Shakes his head so I tell him he had better get involved and give him a few details and he just looks me in the eye and tells me that it will never happen, won't happen because the Goverment has to look after the Rec fisherman.:o

Anyway thats the problem that will let this marine park get the go ahead if we are not careful.

P.S. I've got him half convinced, just wish I had some information on hand that I could print out and hand him.;D

Mark

[trymyluck]

and how many people 15 years ago said "they wont impose bag limits" and the great one, "no fishing zones, they wont do that"
So, heres a comment, "in another 10 years, maybe sooner, there will not be any more recreational fishing in the wild"

I dare anyone to say I am off my head or a bloody idiot for making that comment....
Dare I say it AGAIN???? we are screwed....
1 in 10 give a sh!t and 1 in 10 of those voice their opinion in ways that matter and 1 in 10 of those, actually do something about it.
so 1 in 1000 really do give a sh!t...:'(

And once more for the record....WE ARE SCREWED...


Come on Newb's ......... You only need a small shovel so you can did their heads out of the sand.

Mark

[Chris Ryan]

Its coming Mark.....I know it is late and I know it is something we desperately need...but it is coming. I know because we had a committee meeting last night and the graphic designers have shown me some mock-ups and we are heading for printing soon because we will need it before the end of February.

Chris


Had a bit of a chat to a work mate yesterday, older bloke late 50ies keen fisherman and he tells me he is thinking seriously about buying a 35 to 40ft boat. Something he can slip out to the reefs for a couple of weeks sort of thing. Anyway I asked him if he had heard of pew's proposal for the Coral Sea. Shakes his head so I tell him he had better get involved and give him a few details and he just looks me in the eye and tells me that it will never happen, won't happen because the Goverment has to look after the Rec fisherman.:o

Anyway thats the problem that will let this marine park get the go ahead if we are not careful.

P.S. I've got him half convinced, just wish I had some information on hand that I could print out and hand him.;D

Mark

[trymyluck]

Its coming Mark.....I know it is late and I know it is something we desperately need...but it is coming. I know because we had a committee meeting last night and the graphic designers have shown me some mock-ups and we are heading for printing soon because we will need it before the end of February.

Chris


Thats ok, do you think it would be worthwhile doing a basic leaflet that anyone could download and print a heap off. We could then hand them out to fellow workers and friends.

Mark

[Chris Ryan]

Going to be making them available off the ECOfishers website too mate. We're getting there.....hows that little engine that could go 'I think I can, I think I can'

:)

[rob tranter]

and how many people 15 years ago said "they wont impose bag limits" and the great one, "no fishing zones, they wont do that"
So, heres a comment, "in another 10 years, maybe sooner, there will not be any more recreational fishing in the wild"

I dare anyone to say I am off my head or a bloody idiot for making that comment....
Dare I say it AGAIN???? we are screwed....
1 in 10 give a sh!t and 1 in 10 of those voice their opinion in ways that matter and 1 in 10 of those, actually do something about it.
so 1 in 1000 really do give a sh!t...:'(

And once more for the record....WE ARE SCREWED...

Come on Newb's, thats a big dare, and I'm up for it;)

Your a Bloody Idiot;D :o ;D :o ;D :o sorry I couldn't help that:P

Don't give in Mate, we're only beginning to fight.
It will be a long hard slog, as we have only just begun, where as the the Green hairy ones have been doing this for years, so they have a fare head start.

I think that Ecofishers have the right people on board, (although the NSW ecofishers WEB site isa bitch to navigate) and that the message is slowly getting out there.
I've got a few from the Pub thinking about it all, they just need convincing.

It is More than 1 in 10 that give a shit, but you may be right with the rest of your Math::)

Cheer up mate

Good will Triumph Over Evil In the End

"AND WE ARE THE GOOD"

Chris,

If the Green Zealots get there way, and have the Coral Sea a NO GO ZONE, how do they propose to police this, as I am sure that the Safe, Kick a Tin along registered Oil Tankers/ Frieghters etc would Travel through this vast Ocean area

Rob T8-)

[TheRealAndy]

Come on Newb's, thats a big dare, and I'm up for it;)

Your a Bloody Idiot;D :o ;D :o ;D :o sorry I couldn't help that:P

Don't give in Mate, we're only beginning to fight.
It will be a long hard slog, as we have only just begun, where as the the Green hairy ones have been doing this for years, so they have a fare head start.

I think that Ecofishers have the right people on board, (although the NSW ecofishers WEB site isa bitch to navigate) and that the message is slowly getting out there.
I've got a few from the Pub thinking about it all, they just need convincing.

It is More than 1 in 10 that give a shit, but you may be right with the rest of your Math::)

Cheer up mate

Good will Triumph Over Evil In the End

"AND WE ARE THE GOOD"

Chris,

If the Green Zealots get there way, and have the Coral Sea a NO GO ZONE, how do they propose to police this, as I am sure that the Safe, Kick a Tin along registered Oil Tankers/ Frieghters etc would Travel through this vast Ocean area

Rob T8-)

I got your membership yesterday rob. Many thanks for the donation too.

[fanplastico]

Ok
So we need to spread the message to our mates and anyone that listens. Now here is the problem. Unless you have the time to get involved and spend ya life sorting through the crap to get to the facts ya don't know where to start.
I think we need someone who has been involved and knows whats fact and fiction to put together a information sheet. Who is who and what they intend. Who to contact and web sites to look at.

Is there something already available that can be printed off.

Mark

There is a heap of good info on the ecofishers nsw web site http://www.ecofishers.com/ , a lot is NSW specific of course.

Plastico

[TheRealAndy]

Had a bit of a chat to a work mate yesterday, older bloke late 50ies keen fisherman and he tells me he is thinking seriously about buying a 35 to 40ft boat. Something he can slip out to the reefs for a couple of weeks sort of thing. Anyway I asked him if he had heard of pew's proposal for the Coral Sea. Shakes his head so I tell him he had better get involved and give him a few details and he just looks me in the eye and tells me that it will never happen, won't happen because the Goverment has to look after the Rec fisherman.:o

Anyway thats the problem that will let this marine park get the go ahead if we are not careful.

P.S. I've got him half convinced, just wish I had some information on hand that I could print out and hand him.;D

Mark

Mark there is an excellent document on the ecofishers website regarding the myths and facts of the easter bioregional planning provided by keith hall. Take a look: http://www.ecofishersqld.org.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=WQ0Zb5Fp67A%3d&tabid=62

[NEWBY]

Come on Newb's, thats a big dare, and I'm up for it;)

Your a Bloody Idiot;D :o ;D :o ;D :o sorry I couldn't help that:P

Don't give in Mate, we're only beginning to fight.
It will be a long hard slog, as we have only just begun, where as the the Green hairy ones have been doing this for years, so they have a fare head start.

I think that Ecofishers have the right people on board, (although the NSW ecofishers WEB site isa bitch to navigate) and that the message is slowly getting out there.
I've got a few from the Pub thinking about it all, they just need convincing.

It is More than 1 in 10 that give a shit, but you may be right with the rest of your Math::)

Cheer up mate

Good will Triumph Over Evil In the End

"AND WE ARE THE GOOD"

Chris,

If the Green Zealots get there way, and have the Coral Sea a NO GO ZONE, how do they propose to police this, as I am sure that the Safe, Kick a Tin along registered Oil Tankers/ Frieghters etc would Travel through this vast Ocean area

Rob T8-)
ME?????
GIVE UP??????
You gotta be kidding mate....I never do....
And ALL my math is correct. 1 in 10 give a shit mate....I am talking whole of population.
I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.

[Chris Ryan]

Chris,

If the Green Zealots get there way, and have the Coral Sea a NO GO ZONE, how do they propose to police this, as I am sure that the Safe, Kick a Tin along registered Oil Tankers/ Frieghters etc would Travel through this vast Ocean area

Rob T8-)

Hi Rob (my fellow NSWelshman)

The same way they monitor the other major zonings will more than likely be used here. Some aerial views, some visits by enforcement officers, mostly fines so large to scare the pants off the average bloke that they can't afford to take the risk.

The tankers/freighters etc will still be allowed through, as will oil exploration/mining exploration activities. TOURISM of course will still be allowed including diving etc.

They are still allowing submissions for/against this planning through DEWHA so if any feel so inclined, grab the doco have a read and draft a nice letter back to the good people at the Federal Government and point out how far off the mark they are about recreational line fishing being a major impact to the area and why no legislative improvements are coming to stop things such as increases in pollution, siltation from loss of foreshore being washed out to sea, tankers, tourist boats and their anchors/moorings etc.

[scifly]

Hi Guys

Its good to see all this energy but at the risk of being a party pooper, its far better if we are coordinated in this. The big issue to overcome is the perception that we are so fragmented and so territorial that its not worth consulting with us.

This is the view of the government and the anti-fishing movement. Have a look at the conservation campaigns - they are slick, they stick to the same message and they have a simple message. Yes, behind the scenes they all disagree with each other but in the public, they stick together.

We must get coordinated in our efforts too. I see the Recfish Australia role is to assist with coordinating the national effort so we are not tripping over each other's feet. I dont believe one size fits all but I think the facts are consistent and we need to stick to them. I have seen a lot of opinion and interpretation about what is going on with the marine bioregional planning process - some of it is as nonsensical as what is being proposed by Pew. If we start trotting out lies, we lose our credibility right away.

Before we embark on these campaigns, lets get a meeting of like minded souls together and coordinate this.

The Boating and Fishing Council of Australia - which Recfish is a member of has a website with our joint position statements. http://www.bfca.com.au/ which would be a good starting point.

[trymyluck]

Hi Guys

Its good to see all this energy but at the risk of being a party pooper, its far better if we are coordinated in this. The big issue to overcome is the perception that we are so fragmented and so territorial that its not worth consulting with us.

This is the view of the government and the anti-fishing movement. Have a look at the conservation campaigns - they are slick, they stick to the same message and they have a simple message. Yes, behind the scenes they all disagree with each other but in the public, they stick together.

We must get coordinated in our efforts too. I see the Recfish Australia role is to assist with coordinating the national effort so we are not tripping over each other's feet. I dont believe one size fits all but I think the facts are consistent and we need to stick to them. I have seen a lot of opinion and interpretation about what is going on with the marine bioregional planning process - some of it is as nonsensical as what is being proposed by Pew. If we start trotting out lies, we lose our credibility right away.

Before we embark on these campaigns, lets get a meeting of like minded souls together and coordinate this.

The Boating and Fishing Council of Australia - which Recfish is a member of has a website with our joint position statements. http://www.bfca.com.au/ which would be a good starting point.

I agree we need to be coordinated, but Lets get a move on. We need to get the message out there now, not try and worry about it when the election is almost on us.

[NEWBY]

This is actually starting to get somewhere.
Uncommon sense is becoming common on this thread.
Wow...
People and groups SHARING opinion not banter.
Working together and not against.
I am impressed....And with it all the way...
Cool as guys....

And a word or 2 of warning for the left wing, hairy armpit and leg brigade.




WERE COMING TO GET YOU


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/14/14_6_18.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt484YYAU)


ALL OF US





http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb098&pp=ZNxpt484YYAU (http://www.smileycentral.com/dl/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb098_ZNxpt484YYAU&utm_id=7926)

[mudrunner]

well....i was banned for posting a thread on my opinion....lets hope im allowed to post a post on my opinion......::)


as australia moves to the quoted population of 35 million in 30 years time.....governments are looking to protect the environment from population growth and fishing. thats why we are getting all these restrictions. its not for now, but its for the overpopulation that they have PLANNED.

i'll not waste my time or typing till i see if this point of view gets me banned.....again...

[NEWBY]

well....i was banned for posting a thread on my opinion....lets hope im allowed to post a post on my opinion......::)


as australia moves to the quoted population of 35 million in 30 years time.....governments are looking to protect the environment from population growth and fishing. thats why we are getting all these restrictions. its not for now, but its for the overpopulation that they have PLANNED.

i'll not waste my time or typing till i see if this point of view gets me banned.....again...
Australia is certainly big enough to hold 35 million + people. And we need that population really.
We have land to sustain the population. We have resources. We have food and when the GVT get their sh!t together and bring the water from the north, down to the south, there will be plenty of water too...

Look at all the countries with a bigger population than ours.....The waterways around Australia can support that no problems and we can do it without radical closures based on apparent (scientific information)

So firstly, not a hope that we will have 35mil in 30 years....Where are they going to come from?
Only way is if they import every hairy armpitted left wing radical from overseas..
AND that is a possibility...
I also copped a ban for voicing my opinion recently. And i still am voicing it...stop ya whinging mate....You would have had to really overstep the mark to get a holiday. I did. From memory it was for giving someone a spray...So be it...

[mudrunner]

Australia is certainly big enough to hold 35 million + people. And we need that population really.
We have land to sustain the population. We have resources. We have food and when the GVT get their sh!t together and bring the water from the north, down to the south, there will be plenty of water too...

Look at all the countries with a bigger population than ours.....The waterways around Australia can support that no problems and we can do it without radical closures based on apparent (scientific information)

So firstly, not a hope that we will have 35mil in 30 years....Where are they going to come from?
Only way is if they import every hairy armpitted left wing radical from overseas..
AND that is a possibility...
I also copped a ban for voicing my opinion recently. And i still am voicing it...stop ya whinging mate....You would have had to really overstep the mark to get a holiday. I did. From memory it was for giving someone a spray...So be it...


all very nice.......but you havent addressed my point. my point being.....the reason we are copping restrictions is because of the planned influx of migrants and refugees.......and that is not the reason they are telling us.

[FNQCairns]

well....i was banned for posting a thread on my opinion....lets hope im allowed to post a post on my opinion......::)


as australia moves to the quoted population of 35 million in 30 years time.....governments are looking to protect the environment from population growth and fishing. thats why we are getting all these restrictions. its not for now, but its for the overpopulation that they have PLANNED.

i'll not waste my time or typing till i see if this point of view gets me banned.....again...

That is not what all these restrictions are being placed right now are about. Does one start starving their dog because it's may just die in 5 years time???

Nothing wrong with having an understanding of the future it's the sole domain of being human but why try and kill the dog just because of it! That dog might live to 12.

Look at my sig below, the GBR had a recreational 'take' that could in theory handle a 1283 times increase in population before reaching un-sustainable.

i understand that reality will skew this somewhat but even if one becomes dramatic and halves my number above??.... It's folly to assume in any way what they are doing today is for any other reason than for religious ideology purposes and most sadly simply because we are very easy to walk over.

cheers fnq

[mudrunner]

That is not what all these restrictions are being placed right now are about. Does one start starving their dog because it's may just die in 5 years time???

Nothing wrong with having an understanding of the future it's the sole domain of being human but why try and kill the dog just because of it! That dog might live to 12.

Look at my sig below, the GBR had a recreational 'take' that could in theory handle a 1283 times increase in population before reaching un-sustainable.

i understand that reality will skew this somewhat but even if one becomes dramatic and halves my number above??.... It's folly to assume in any way what they are doing today is for any other reason than for religious ideology purposes and most sadly simply because we are very easy to walk over.

cheers fnq

your analogy shows you are confused.

politicians are putting into place policies/laws to restrict fishing. they are doing it because they know of the sudden, massive population increases planned for seqld.

im not in the dark....are you?

[STUIE63]

what a load of bs the pollies are not planning for a future population explosion . if they were there would be better roads , public transport , water infastructure and the list can go on and on . the pollies are only planning how to get preferences so they can win the next election . a good example is Anna can say to the greens that she out all these green zones in place and she can say to the fishos that she gave an artificial reef .

[FNQCairns]

your analogy shows you are confused.

politicians are putting into place policies/laws to restrict fishing. they are doing it because they know of the sudden, massive population increases planned for seqld.

im not in the dark....are you?

Oh Ok so now it's in SEQ only ;) i am just not prone to spin in these areas.

How about this analogy then, a 5 bedroom house has a orange tree in the back yard in 1960, there is 1 person living in the house.....should this person not sustainabley harvest from this tree for fear of what???...... because in 2008 the population of the house will be 2! and what about in 2008 should those 2 not harvest because of the population curve to 2035???

What happens to the fruit on that tree every year if not harvested?

The very definition of sustainable is appropriate here. Look again at the recreational GBR fish take below and then a the pacific reef take, please tell me what is the fraction of sustainable the GBR is at ATM and what fishery regs etc reflect that position even if in 50 years??

but to bring it all back to centre, there is nothing new here, you should read some of the carry on in the 70s over the population at 2005-2010...will make level headed people chuckle ,we produce the food to feed x3 our population, we have ample water still even if poorly managed, one wouldnt believe it was possible if they lived 40 years ago, crystal balls are strange things.

Almost forever high school geography text books have been giving us what is up with population growth...nothing has actually changed, population and possibly fresh water access are still the only two real problems facing the world into the future. in 2035 we will probably have much more to worry about from other populace countrys than leaving the oranges on the tree to rot because of a poor understanding of what is ecology.

cheers fnq

[TimiBoy]

Anyone who thinks today's Politicians are interested in planning for anything beyond the next election is ignorant, or stupid.

Just my opinion, of course.

Tim

[NEWBY]

Anyone who thinks today's Politicians are interested in planning for anything beyond the next election is ignorant, or stupid.

Just my opinion, of course.

Tim

:'( I AM BOTH:'(
And add to that Arrogant, self centred and NOW, a FERRAL:o Not to mention bombastic and a control freak.

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE (you know the rest);D

[Lucky_Phill]

I actually see your point mudrunner. IF that were the big picture.... unfortunately, I do not believe it is.

With the ever increasing land clearing restrictions, lack of infrastructure projects, funding withdrawls from every major socio-ecomonic charity, incentive reductions for private enterprise, publicly owned assest sales and complete fiscal mismanagement of State and Federal Government, the ONLY thing the present powers in the ivory towers ( hey that rhymes :) ) want to achieve is................. being re-elected.

This is not a myth, it is reality.

Again, I see your point, but I feel with proper stakeholder involvement and transparent policy decisions, we can have our 35 mill AND a sustainable fishery.

Well, here's hoping, anyway.


LP.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[mowerman]

proper stakeholder involvement and transparent policy decisions
.


Im off on a bit of a tangent here but maybe those who know will see the parallel.

My father attended an information meeting the other night. All to do with the building of a 6 story block of units in Capalaba. Now, the units can not be seen from the old mans place, but the increased vehicle traffic will enter onto Mt Cotton rd directly opposite his house. Roundabout? Lights? No one seems to know at this stage.But the building has started.

At the meeting was the local member,Michael, and in my fathers words, " an effin silver haired greenie in a pink shirt called Simon."

Yep, I know who that is.

This is my fathers impression.

Every time "michael" spoke he glanced at "simon" before, during and after to ensure he said the right thing.
And always an encouraging nod from "simon"

Transparent? Stakeholders? Mmmmmmm.

Timiboy...shush.

Rod.

.

[NEWBY]

all very nice.......but you havent addressed my point. my point being.....the reason we are copping restrictions is because of the planned influx of migrants and refugees.......and that is not the reason they are telling us.
I must admit, I dont recall hearing anything about letting in 12 million refugees over the next 20 years so maybe you know something I dont?
From what I know, they are pretty tight on who they let in...Must have qualifications/trade. Must have money in the bank etc etc. I will go out on a limb here and say that the planned influx will be the more qualified type with a minority being refugees....
Personally, I like the multicultural aspect of Australia. After all, unless your of Aboriginal decent, its your heritage too mate....Yes, your an import or decendant of one.
I also like the fact that these "migrants" are usually fantastic workers. They dont whinge or moan. They just do the job and are happy to have the oportunity.
Bring em on I say. But educate them on the laws first. Like size and bag limits...Wife bashing...(Yes it is fine to do that in some countries) Blaming their chosen religion for breaking our criminal laws etc etc.. And they must of course, be able to speak and understand english...

We have a lot of migrant workers in Central Queensland. They are good people...Workers....No trouble.....Friendly and courteous....

I feel like there is a touch of distaste for "foreigners" in your comment eh?

[Chris Ryan]

back to the topic......

I have been doing some digging and found out the funders behind the Coral Sea plans.

The campaign is funded by five organisations:
the Lyda Hill Foundation – Dallas, Texas,
the Pew Charitable Trusts, Philadelphia, PA
the Oak Foundation, Geneva
the Robertson Foundation Salibury N.C
the Sandler Foundation. California USA

So all of these overseas groups know exactly the right things for the Australian environment, the Australian way of life and the Australian issues associated with our fisheries do they??

I read this from the Q&A part of the website at protectourcoralsea.org.au "In the last 50 years, 90% of the world’s large ocean-going fish have disappeared due to overfishing. There is an urgent need to protect large areas of the ocean from fishing to ensure the survival of these majestic species. Full protection also ensures the integrity of ecosystems and their processes." No reference, No science.

More "Many migratory and pelagic species are under threat and highly vulnerable to overfishing. Fully protecting the Coral Sea would be a huge step forward for conservation. It is possible that some individual species may be caught when they leave Australian waters, but not all of them will be. In the long term, the Coral Sea could be the start of a network of large, fully protected areas in the Western and Central Pacific. It is crucial, however, that tougher controls on fishing in the high seas for tuna and billfish are implemented and rigorously applied."

I'm appalled, disgusted and just angry over this crap these so called 'conversationalists' get away with lies. You can lie to the public to get them to support you, the friggin pollies can lie in parliament and nothing can be done.

With the millions those 5 so called philanthropic mobs have poured into this, man we are really really the underdog here in this battle. Still wanna have a go at it..........



ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!

[murf]

can I get a big bumper sticker that says Greenies are ill-informed liars or something to that effect?

cheers Murf

[scifly]

Hi Chris

The Boating and Fishing Council of Australia met with Pew Environment Group and the AMCS last week and it was quite interesting.

I think the pressure is starting to impact on them, especially the US angle as this can impact on Pew headoffice. I have also done some digging about how they work and its fascinating check out http://www.offsettingresistance.ca/.

Its a worry that groups like WWF are now sinking to new lows by playing the man and not the ball (see other posting about the attack on Dr Ben Diggles). It looks like Pew has got to them on some funding issues.

There has been a slight shift with Pew now hinting at a "large" marine reserve which may not cover the whole of the Coral Sea. Garrett's office also seems to be getting jack of them and is trying to put some distance between them.

AMCS continues to lose credibility with their latest release condemning Garrett for caving to looby groups on Mako Sharks full of inaccurate quotes.

Dont lose faith now, we have them on ropes.
Len

[kc]

Little press piece in the Courier today titled "Top Honours for Scientists", which is in fact an announcement by PEW of 3 $165,000 research grants, one being for "the effects of overfishing and climate change" and another "killing of seabirds by trawlers". FFS. Of course these "scientists" will come up with whatever results keeps the gravey flowing. I would be no different. If you want to keep youir job you dance to the tune of whoever provides the paycheck.

Also noticed the new WWF Australia front man, Nick Heath was senior advisor to Desley Boyle when she was environment minister. This just stinks.............and not like a dead fish. How can we expect a Government to make decisions based on democracy when it is ripe with nepotism.

If "we" collectively don't use our vote to send a very powerful message in the upcoming Senate election recreational fishing is headed down the dunny!!

KC

[PinHead]

Hi Chris

The Boating and Fishing Council of Australia met with Pew Environment Group and the AMCS last week and it was quite interesting.

I think the pressure is starting to impact on them, especially the US angle as this can impact on Pew headoffice. I have also done some digging about how they work and its fascinating check out http://www.offsettingresistance.ca/.

Its a worry that groups like WWF are now sinking to new lows by playing the man and not the ball (see other posting about the attack on Dr Ben Diggles). It looks like Pew has got to them on some funding issues.

There has been a slight shift with Pew now hinting at a "large" marine reserve which may not cover the whole of the Coral Sea. Garrett's office also seems to be getting jack of them and is trying to put some distance between them.

AMCS continues to lose credibility with their latest release condemning Garrett for caving to looby groups on Mako Sharks full of inaccurate quotes.

Dont lose faith now, we have them on ropes.
Len

len..all credit forthe work you are doing but why would you waste your time having a meeting with PEW. I would just state that I do not recognise them and not about to waste time being in the same room as them. I don;t care how much money they have or anything else..they are just another bunch of morons out there mouthing off and saying nothing.

If Nevillel Chamberlain was still alive I bet he would not agree with meeting with and coming to any arrangment with your prospective enemy.

[PinHead]

Im off on a bit of a tangent here but maybe those who know will see the parallel.

My father attended an information meeting the other night. All to do with the building of a 6 story block of units in Capalaba. Now, the units can not be seen from the old mans place, but the increased vehicle traffic will enter onto Mt Cotton rd directly opposite his house. Roundabout? Lights? No one seems to know at this stage.But the building has started.

At the meeting was the local member,Michael, and in my fathers words, " an effin silver haired greenie in a pink shirt called Simon."

Yep, I know who that is.

This is my fathers impression.

Every time "michael" spoke he glanced at "simon" before, during and after to ensure he said the right thing.
And always an encouraging nod from "simon"

Transparent? Stakeholders? Mmmmmmm.

Timiboy...shush.

Rod.

.

that could only be the one and only Simon Baltais..the man who does nothing constructive but languishes in any position on an green group that will have him.

from the Woodford Dope Festival.."
An active environmental campaigner, Simon holds positions on Queensland Conservation Council, Vice President of SEQ Sustainable Population Australia, Ambassador for LifeLine and more. Son of a migrant and father of one child, his broad experiences make him ideal to discuss population issues."

What makes him an expert on environmental issues? Based on their drivel..my parents were both born here and i have 2 kids..therefore I am more credentialled to speak than he is.

That bloke is another I would not be in the same room with...something unpleasant might happen if i was.

[mowerman]

that could only be the one and only Simon Baltais..the man who does nothing constructive but languishes in any position on an green group that will have him.

from the Woodford Dope Festival.."
An active environmental campaigner, Simon holds positions on Queensland Conservation Council, Vice President of SEQ Sustainable Population Australia, Ambassador for LifeLine and more. Son of a migrant and father of one child, his broad experiences make him ideal to discuss population issues."

What makes him an expert on environmental issues? Based on their drivel..my parents were both born here and i have 2 kids..therefore I am more credentialled to speak than he is.

That bloke is another I would not be in the same room with...something unpleasant might happen if i was.


Greg.
You left out.
"He also receives funding from the Brisbane Airport Corporation and the Brisbane Ports Authority."

Rod.

.

[NEWBY]

len..all credit forthe work you are doing but why would you waste your time having a meeting with PEW. I would just state that I do not recognise them and not about to waste time being in the same room as them. I don;t care how much money they have or anything else..they are just another bunch of morons out there mouthing off and saying nothing.

If Nevillel Chamberlain was still alive I bet he would not agree with meeting with and coming to any arrangment with your prospective enemy.

PINHEAD?????
Too negative mate....
Its the old saying eh?
Keep your friends close, and your enemy's closer......
Maybe PEW think the same and that Recfish is a threat????
Len, smart move to meet with them mate....100% support from me bud....

[PinHead]

as I said..Chamberlain kept Hitler close..like signing an agreement with hm..fat lot of good that did him.

Why negative?
I would much prefer to just keep battling at the enemy..no need to site down with them.

[castlemaine]

back to the topic......

I have been doing some digging and found out the funders behind the Coral Sea plans.

The campaign is funded by five organisations:
the Lyda Hill Foundation – Dallas, Texas,
the Pew Charitable Trusts, Philadelphia, PA
the Oak Foundation, Geneva
the Robertson Foundation Salibury N.C
the Sandler Foundation. California USA

So all of these overseas groups know exactly the right things for the Australian environment, the Australian way of life and the Australian issues associated with our fisheries do they??

I read this from the Q&A part of the website at protectourcoralsea.org.au "In the last 50 years, 90% of the world’s large ocean-going fish have disappeared due to overfishing. There is an urgent need to protect large areas of the ocean from fishing to ensure the survival of these majestic species. Full protection also ensures the integrity of ecosystems and their processes." No reference, No science.

More "Many migratory and pelagic species are under threat and highly vulnerable to overfishing. Fully protecting the Coral Sea would be a huge step forward for conservation. It is possible that some individual species may be caught when they leave Australian waters, but not all of them will be. In the long term, the Coral Sea could be the start of a network of large, fully protected areas in the Western and Central Pacific. It is crucial, however, that tougher controls on fishing in the high seas for tuna and billfish are implemented and rigorously applied."

I'm appalled, disgusted and just angry over this crap these so called 'conversationalists' get away with lies. You can lie to the public to get them to support you, the friggin pollies can lie in parliament and nothing can be done.

With the millions those 5 so called philanthropic mobs have poured into this, man we are really really the underdog here in this battle. Still wanna have a go at it..........



ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!

Hi Chris

Great post.

Can you provide the links for ... 'on your digging'.

I always like a quote when I write to the pollies.

Cheers
Ivan

[Lucky_Phill]

Here's a piece of a report commissioned by the saveourmarinelife folks.

This was done by Allen Consulting.

This is amazing , factual, scientific evidence:-

Scientists suspect that the creatures living in the
mud and sand of the sea floor could be highly
vulnerable to disturbance. Drilling in a petroleum
field near Portland in Victoria caused the numbers
of some species to drop by nearly 90 per cent for
several months.

Call me a sceptic, but when I read drivel like this that has been ' commissioned ', it really gives me the irrates. You know why, because this info was plastered over a facebook website that has 3,100 ' fans ", and they will believe this crap.

and then, while all the time eluding to the recreational angler being the downfall of fish stocks, they come up with this statement:-

The health of our marine environment is affected
by what happens on land. The connections
between catchment health, marine health and
community health are clearly demonstrated by
disturbing stories from Cockburn Sound and the
PeelHarveyInlet.

I agree with their theory, but when they say " disturbing stories " ffs..... stories... is this how they base their research, data, science and eventually proposals to government.

I feel so sorry for the followers of these twats as they do not realise they are being taken for a ride both emotionally and financially.

LP.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[Chris Ryan]

mudrunner has provided a link from anotehr forum for a news story whereby the swiss are considering providing lawyers for animals. One lawsuit against a fisherman who caught a pike from a lake was quashed, but it is a smelly situation being stirred up. Sounds a lot like Andrew Bartletts Animal Rights Bill that only just missed getting up when he was in the Democrats.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8550028.stm

Scary if this is how the PETA's and Sea Sheppards of this world are pushing governments.

Thanks for providing that mudrunner.

[FNQCairns]

mudrunner has provided a link from anotehr forum for a news story whereby the swiss are considering providing lawyers for animals. One lawsuit against a fisherman who caught a pike from a lake was quashed, but it is a smelly situation being stirred up. Sounds a lot like Andrew Bartletts Animal Rights Bill that only just missed getting up when he was in the Democrats.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8550028.stm

Scary if this is how the PETA's and Sea Sheppards of this world are pushing governments.

Thanks for providing that mudrunner.


Yeah that was scary! only luck that time saved us, if the curve continues as it has been we will feel the sting of something akin to that in the future.

cheers fnq

[mudrunner]

cheers chris....the fight is about to escalate. can you imagine how motivated this will make PETA and the greens here? if they can do it in the US....

also there is talk of carbon credits for fish...whales, tuna, and sharks...so far. but here is something more worrying...

the US. All recreational fishing BANNED by executive order!? (http://www.kfdu.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9996&sid=89d4d916f246cb2d1be19bc835035681#p71022)

Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:46 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/salt ... id=4975762 (http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/saltwater/news/story?id=4975762)

The Obama administration will accept no more public input for a federal strategy that could prohibit U.S. citizens from fishing the nation's oceans, coastal areas, Great Lakes, and even inland waters.



some of the more worrying statements from the article..





The Obama administration will accept no more public input for a federal strategy that could prohibit U.S. citizens from fishing the nation's oceans, coastal areas, Great Lakes, and even inland waters.





Additionally, some of these same organizations have revealed their anti-fishing bias by playing fast and loose with "facts," in attempts to ban tackle containing lead in the United States and Canada.

That same tunnel vision, in which recreational angling and commercial fishing are indiscriminately lumped together as harmful to the resource, has persisted with the task force, despite protests by the angling industry.






As more evidence of collusion, the green groups began clamoring for an Executive Order to implement the task force's recommendations even before the public comment period ended in February. Fishing advocates had no idea that this was coming.








Perhaps not so coincidentally, the New York Times reported on Feb. 12 that "President Obama and his team are preparing an array of actions using his executive power to advance energy, environmental, fiscal and other domestic policy priorities."








Morlock fears that "what we're seeing coming at us is an attempted dismantling of the science-based fish and wildlife model that has served us so well. There's no basis in science for the agendas of these groups who are trying to push the public out of being able to fish and recreate.





"With what's being created, the same principles could apply inland as apply to the oceans," he said. "Under the guise of 'marine spatial planning' entire watersheds could be shut down, even 2,000 miles up a river drainage from the ocean.

"Every angler needs to be aware because if it's not happening in your backyard today or tomorrow, it will be eventually.